- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. ( non-admin closure) GSS ( talk) 05:57, 27 October 2016 (UTC)
1922 Washington State Cougars football team
- 1922 Washington State Cougars football team ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Bot blanked it, please delete it. Eric S.V. ( talk) 12:08, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
- Keep. Not blank anymore. Not a good reason to delete anyway. Notable subject. Jweiss11 ( talk) 16:24, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of American football-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal ( talk) 18:11, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Washington-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal ( talk) 18:11, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
- Keep Article has now been started. WikiOriginal-9 ( talk) 18:12, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
- Keep. Washington State is a top level collegiate football program (NCAA Division I FBS) with sufficient coverage so that each of its seasons has sufficient sourcing to pass WP:GNG. Moreover, the 1922 team played in the Pacific Coast Conference which was the highest level of football played in the Western United States in that era (pro football did not come to the West until the 1940s). Further, the article now has sufficient substance and sourcing for a basic stub level article. The article needs further expansion and improvement but should absolutely not be deleted. Cbl62 ( talk) 18:28, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
MergeKeep into a larger list in List of Washington State Cougars football seasons. I can't remember where else I saw this but this was the way some other football team had old seasons listed. This page will always remain a stub, so there's no reason to keep it as a standalone article. The information listed on the page may have literally been the only data recorded from this season. College football was not as popular as it is today until the middle of the 20th century, and Wash St. is one of the more obscure DI FBS schools.-- Prisencolin ( talk) 20:20, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
- "Will always remain a stub". Not necessarily. If someone did some research, they could probably make this into a decent sized article, enough to warrant it as a stand-a-lone.
WikiOriginal-9 (
talk) 22:46, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
- The above comment by @
Prisencolin: is wrong on multiple counts. First, college football was the second most popular sport in the USA in 1922, trailing only Major League Baseball (pro basketball didn't exist, and pro football was in its infancy), and received extensive press coverage. Second, Washington State is far from "obscure"; it is a
Power Five conferences program. Third, there was plenty of media coverage of the team. A search of
Newspapers.com finds 1,619 articles on the Washington State football program in 1922. E.g.,
this re Game 4 and
this re coaching change. Fourth, the general protocol for NCAA FBS teams is to allow season articles, not to limit coverage to a bare bones list of seasons.
Cbl62 (
talk) 23:28, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
- I was talking about its relative popularity in mainstream society, I don't doubt that football's been one of, if not the most popular spectator sport in America in the history of modern sports. I was unable to find any more information about the team, not even rosters or box scores, which suggests that it would beyond desire levels of
WP:DETAIL. I don't have access to any sort of newspaper database, but even if there a lot of coverage some of it might either A) just impart the same information like on this page or B) not meet requirements for an
WP:RS.--
Prisencolin (
talk) 23:43, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
- Please
WP:RTFS first and then comment. --
Paul McDonald (
talk) 03:04, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
- See also
this re Game 7,
this re Game 5,
this re Game 3,
this re Game 2,
this re Game 1,
this re preseason training table, all of which satisfy
WP:RS.
Cbl62 (
talk) 03:27, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
- Okay you have me convinced, changing vote to keep. It's just that these articles seem rather hard to come by, but they do exist. Now the question is whether anyone is able to insert references into the scores of unsourced sports season pages out there.--
Prisencolin (
talk) 05:49, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
- Can't speak for other sports, but college football season sourcing seems to only be limited by the project's capacity to volunteer.-- Paul McDonald ( talk) 11:59, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
- Okay you have me convinced, changing vote to keep. It's just that these articles seem rather hard to come by, but they do exist. Now the question is whether anyone is able to insert references into the scores of unsourced sports season pages out there.--
Prisencolin (
talk) 05:49, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
- See also
this re Game 7,
this re Game 5,
this re Game 3,
this re Game 2,
this re Game 1,
this re preseason training table, all of which satisfy
WP:RS.
Cbl62 (
talk) 03:27, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
- Please
WP:RTFS first and then comment. --
Paul McDonald (
talk) 03:04, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
- I was talking about its relative popularity in mainstream society, I don't doubt that football's been one of, if not the most popular spectator sport in America in the history of modern sports. I was unable to find any more information about the team, not even rosters or box scores, which suggests that it would beyond desire levels of
WP:DETAIL. I don't have access to any sort of newspaper database, but even if there a lot of coverage some of it might either A) just impart the same information like on this page or B) not meet requirements for an
WP:RS.--
Prisencolin (
talk) 23:43, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
- The above comment by @
Prisencolin: is wrong on multiple counts. First, college football was the second most popular sport in the USA in 1922, trailing only Major League Baseball (pro basketball didn't exist, and pro football was in its infancy), and received extensive press coverage. Second, Washington State is far from "obscure"; it is a
Power Five conferences program. Third, there was plenty of media coverage of the team. A search of
Newspapers.com finds 1,619 articles on the Washington State football program in 1922. E.g.,
this re Game 4 and
this re coaching change. Fourth, the general protocol for NCAA FBS teams is to allow season articles, not to limit coverage to a bare bones list of seasons.
Cbl62 (
talk) 23:28, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
- "Will always remain a stub". Not necessarily. If someone did some research, they could probably make this into a decent sized article, enough to warrant it as a stand-a-lone.
WikiOriginal-9 (
talk) 22:46, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
- Keep not only is it standard to keep season articles for current NCAA Division I FBS teams going back to the origin of the team, each season normally more than surpasses the general notability guideline easily. Add to that the head coach for the season was Gus Welch, who was inducted into the College Football Hall of Fame. Plus, Washington State football goes back to 1894 and its membership in the Pacific Coast Conference started in 1917 (which they christened with a conference championship), confirming it was a top-level program even at the time. Oh, and they won the 1916 Rose Bowl to cap off an undefeated season of 7-0. This is most certainly not an "obscure" program. This is a clearly an article that needs to be built up, not deleted.-- Paul McDonald ( talk) 21:04, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
- Keep per Cbl62 and Paulmcdonald, obvious notability as an NCAA D-I FBS team historical season. Ejgreen77 ( talk) 22:19, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
- Speedy keep Clearly notable per all above, and an invalid reason was specified anyway. Can we just close this now? Smartyllama ( talk) 12:50, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. ( non-admin closure) GSS ( talk) 05:57, 27 October 2016 (UTC)
1922 Washington State Cougars football team
- 1922 Washington State Cougars football team ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Bot blanked it, please delete it. Eric S.V. ( talk) 12:08, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
- Keep. Not blank anymore. Not a good reason to delete anyway. Notable subject. Jweiss11 ( talk) 16:24, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of American football-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal ( talk) 18:11, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Washington-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal ( talk) 18:11, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
- Keep Article has now been started. WikiOriginal-9 ( talk) 18:12, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
- Keep. Washington State is a top level collegiate football program (NCAA Division I FBS) with sufficient coverage so that each of its seasons has sufficient sourcing to pass WP:GNG. Moreover, the 1922 team played in the Pacific Coast Conference which was the highest level of football played in the Western United States in that era (pro football did not come to the West until the 1940s). Further, the article now has sufficient substance and sourcing for a basic stub level article. The article needs further expansion and improvement but should absolutely not be deleted. Cbl62 ( talk) 18:28, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
MergeKeep into a larger list in List of Washington State Cougars football seasons. I can't remember where else I saw this but this was the way some other football team had old seasons listed. This page will always remain a stub, so there's no reason to keep it as a standalone article. The information listed on the page may have literally been the only data recorded from this season. College football was not as popular as it is today until the middle of the 20th century, and Wash St. is one of the more obscure DI FBS schools.-- Prisencolin ( talk) 20:20, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
- "Will always remain a stub". Not necessarily. If someone did some research, they could probably make this into a decent sized article, enough to warrant it as a stand-a-lone.
WikiOriginal-9 (
talk) 22:46, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
- The above comment by @
Prisencolin: is wrong on multiple counts. First, college football was the second most popular sport in the USA in 1922, trailing only Major League Baseball (pro basketball didn't exist, and pro football was in its infancy), and received extensive press coverage. Second, Washington State is far from "obscure"; it is a
Power Five conferences program. Third, there was plenty of media coverage of the team. A search of
Newspapers.com finds 1,619 articles on the Washington State football program in 1922. E.g.,
this re Game 4 and
this re coaching change. Fourth, the general protocol for NCAA FBS teams is to allow season articles, not to limit coverage to a bare bones list of seasons.
Cbl62 (
talk) 23:28, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
- I was talking about its relative popularity in mainstream society, I don't doubt that football's been one of, if not the most popular spectator sport in America in the history of modern sports. I was unable to find any more information about the team, not even rosters or box scores, which suggests that it would beyond desire levels of
WP:DETAIL. I don't have access to any sort of newspaper database, but even if there a lot of coverage some of it might either A) just impart the same information like on this page or B) not meet requirements for an
WP:RS.--
Prisencolin (
talk) 23:43, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
- Please
WP:RTFS first and then comment. --
Paul McDonald (
talk) 03:04, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
- See also
this re Game 7,
this re Game 5,
this re Game 3,
this re Game 2,
this re Game 1,
this re preseason training table, all of which satisfy
WP:RS.
Cbl62 (
talk) 03:27, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
- Okay you have me convinced, changing vote to keep. It's just that these articles seem rather hard to come by, but they do exist. Now the question is whether anyone is able to insert references into the scores of unsourced sports season pages out there.--
Prisencolin (
talk) 05:49, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
- Can't speak for other sports, but college football season sourcing seems to only be limited by the project's capacity to volunteer.-- Paul McDonald ( talk) 11:59, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
- Okay you have me convinced, changing vote to keep. It's just that these articles seem rather hard to come by, but they do exist. Now the question is whether anyone is able to insert references into the scores of unsourced sports season pages out there.--
Prisencolin (
talk) 05:49, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
- See also
this re Game 7,
this re Game 5,
this re Game 3,
this re Game 2,
this re Game 1,
this re preseason training table, all of which satisfy
WP:RS.
Cbl62 (
talk) 03:27, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
- Please
WP:RTFS first and then comment. --
Paul McDonald (
talk) 03:04, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
- I was talking about its relative popularity in mainstream society, I don't doubt that football's been one of, if not the most popular spectator sport in America in the history of modern sports. I was unable to find any more information about the team, not even rosters or box scores, which suggests that it would beyond desire levels of
WP:DETAIL. I don't have access to any sort of newspaper database, but even if there a lot of coverage some of it might either A) just impart the same information like on this page or B) not meet requirements for an
WP:RS.--
Prisencolin (
talk) 23:43, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
- The above comment by @
Prisencolin: is wrong on multiple counts. First, college football was the second most popular sport in the USA in 1922, trailing only Major League Baseball (pro basketball didn't exist, and pro football was in its infancy), and received extensive press coverage. Second, Washington State is far from "obscure"; it is a
Power Five conferences program. Third, there was plenty of media coverage of the team. A search of
Newspapers.com finds 1,619 articles on the Washington State football program in 1922. E.g.,
this re Game 4 and
this re coaching change. Fourth, the general protocol for NCAA FBS teams is to allow season articles, not to limit coverage to a bare bones list of seasons.
Cbl62 (
talk) 23:28, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
- "Will always remain a stub". Not necessarily. If someone did some research, they could probably make this into a decent sized article, enough to warrant it as a stand-a-lone.
WikiOriginal-9 (
talk) 22:46, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
- Keep not only is it standard to keep season articles for current NCAA Division I FBS teams going back to the origin of the team, each season normally more than surpasses the general notability guideline easily. Add to that the head coach for the season was Gus Welch, who was inducted into the College Football Hall of Fame. Plus, Washington State football goes back to 1894 and its membership in the Pacific Coast Conference started in 1917 (which they christened with a conference championship), confirming it was a top-level program even at the time. Oh, and they won the 1916 Rose Bowl to cap off an undefeated season of 7-0. This is most certainly not an "obscure" program. This is a clearly an article that needs to be built up, not deleted.-- Paul McDonald ( talk) 21:04, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
- Keep per Cbl62 and Paulmcdonald, obvious notability as an NCAA D-I FBS team historical season. Ejgreen77 ( talk) 22:19, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
- Speedy keep Clearly notable per all above, and an invalid reason was specified anyway. Can we just close this now? Smartyllama ( talk) 12:50, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.