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Messages/discussions archived on February 21, 2021

Hi Tcr25. After reviewing your request for "rollbacker", I have enabled rollback on your account. Keep in mind these things when going to use rollback:

• Getting rollback is no more momentous than installing Twinkle.
• Rollback should be used to revert clear cases of vandalism only, and not good faith edits.
• Rollback should never be used to edit war.
• If abused, rollback rights can be revoked.
• Use common sense.

If you no longer want rollback, contact me and I'll remove it. Also, for some more information on how to use rollback, see Wikipedia:Administrators' guide/Rollback (even though you're not an admin). I'm sure you'll do great with rollback, but feel free to leave me a message on my talk page if you run into troubles or have any questions about appropriate/inappropriate use of rollback. Thank you for helping to reduce vandalism. Happy editing! Kevin (aka L235 · t · c) 02:10, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

Thank you, Kevin.

Remember to do this! :-). Keep up the good work!† Encyclopædius 17:07, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

I always feel odd changing the assessment on things I've written, but I guess going from stub to start shouldn't be suspect ... Thanks. Carter ( talk) 17:15, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

I've been through most of them and upgraded where necessary.-- Ipigott ( talk) 09:25, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

Hi there, Tcr25, and welcome to Women in Red. I see you are now taking a special interest in the Nordic countries, especially in relation to the Samis. They could certainly do with improved coverage. I'm also happy to hear you intend to write more biographies of women. You've made a really good start but if you have not already done so, you might find it useful to look through our Ten Simple Rules. Please let me know if you run into any difficulties or need assistance. Happy editing!-- Ipigott ( talk) 09:31, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

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-- Rosiestep ( talk) 18:51, 26 July 2020 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Your edit here introduced a duplicate ref name error. (Search for 'error:' in the versions before and after your edit.) I have since fixed this error. -- Palosirkka ( talk) 10:31, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for catching that. I went back in and fixed it correctly so that the source is only in the references once. Carter ( talk) 12:33, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

No worries, though looks like the pages don't match now, 7 vs. 8. -- Palosirkka ( talk) 22:31, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

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-- Megalibrarygirl ( talk) 17:53, 29 August 2020 (UTC) via MassMessaging

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-- Megalibrarygirl ( talk) 15:11, 21 September 2020 (UTC) via MassMessaging

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-- Megalibrarygirl ( talk) 18:50, 28 October 2020 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Hey man. Can you update CA-39 to show the result which was called for Young Kim? It’s a GOP gain. Wollers14 ( talk) 15:22, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

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-- Megalibrarygirl ( talk) 16:41, 26 November 2020 (UTC) via MassMessaging

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Nice comment from your side. I agree. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Magysze ( talk • contribs) 16:58, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Magysze, I'd encourage you to not engage in edit warring and instead to build out an article that's strong enough to stand up to scrutiny. I'm fully in favor of seeing articles about small languages and dialects that I'm unfamiliar with, but they have to be backed by WP:RS. Carter ( talk) 17:08, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

They provoked me. I want an article about exactly the differences, the history, evolution of it with the complexity explained. For sure it was/is a language different from Hungarian. Magysze ( talk) 17:11, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Here you have sources: ^ a b c d e Piotr Eberhardt. "Ethnic Groups and Population Changes in Twentieth-century Central-Eastern Europe". M. E. Sharpe, Armonk, NY and London, England, 2003. http://books.google.com/books?id=jLfX1q3kJzgC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Ethnic+Groups+and+Population+Changes+in+Twentieth-century+Central-Eastern#PRA1-PA334,M1. ^ a b "Szekler people". Encyclopædia Britannica. http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/579333/Szekler. ^ a b c "Székely". Columbia Encyclopedia. 2008. http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1E1-Szekely.html. Retrieved 2009-01-25. https://www.romanianhistoryandculture.com/transylvanianszekely.htm Magysze ( talk) 17:07, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

As best I can tell, none of those really provide information about the Székely tongue. One uses the word "language," but follows it immediately with "a Hungarian dialect." The last one is just a copy of the en.wiki article. Searching the first one doesn't show up anything relevant, but Google does not include a lot of pages, so maybe there's more there.
something like this one — Jones, Nick; Larsen, Lance (13 June 2013). "Self-Shaping and National Identity in Transylvania". Journal of Undergraduate Research. Provo, Utah: Brigham Young University. Retrieved 7 February 2021. — isn't the highest quality, but it does clearly talk about a few things that differentiate Székely tongue from standard Hungarian. You could use that as a source to add a language/dialect section to Székelys or to expand the Hungarian dialects article. Build those things out, use WP:RS, and try to keep it focused on the language/dialect, not the issues of identity. Carter ( talk) 17:30, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

I don't want to write an OR article, or to be deleted. But I do want to appear the history, the background of it. Szekely people were imposed the Hungarian language in the 11th century. The article can express all the partisan views of course. But it can't simply redirect it to a language as it is now. That's the main issue. Now it is a redirect. Magysze ( talk) 17:32, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

Szeklers - "special race" of Hungarians

             All the scholars, travelers, leaders who crossed the Romanian space found the uniqueness of the Szeklers, as well as the Saxons (another element of colonization), Catholic implants in the Romanian environment.

             Catholicized by the Hungarians, accepted as allies, as a medieval "nation", the descendants of the Avars continued to be, ethnically, something else. Because, apart from the runes (which the Romans, their teachers, had given up at the time of the adoption of Slavonic, as the liturgical language and the Cyrillic alphabet), the Szeklers continued to have their own language, dress and customs, still visible in the twentieth century. XVI, on the verge of extinction in the XVII-XIX centuries and which only some elders still remember today, in the Ciuc area, so effective was the Hungarianization process, supported primarily by the church, both Catholic and , later, the reformed one. The fact that they still call themselves Szeklers today, however, attests to the persistence of the consciousness of a fundamental difference from the Hungarian population, of a distinct original ethnicity.

             In the 16th century, although at first sight "language, like all customs" brought them closer to the Hungarians (Georg Reicherstorffer), the well-known Paduan physician Francesco della Valle (? -1545) could not help but notice that "I am still a barbarian nation. "other" than the Hungarians. A deep connoisseur of Transylvanian realities, the great humanist scholar Antonius Verantius (Anton Verancsics) (1504-1578) concluded, following an objective analysis, that the Szeklers "differ from the Hungarians in almost all their customs, laws and way of life; religion, and it does not resemble in any way, even as a language, when they speak in the image of their ancestors.

             Along the same lines, Nicolae Romanul (Nicolaus Olahus) (1493-1568), his contemporary, noticed in the Szeklers subject to the Hungarian offensive that they still had "some words of their own." Humanist scholars unanimously defined them as men made for war, a "nation of cruel men" (P. Ranzanus), "harsh and fierce, as if born for battle" (Georg Reichertorffer), with "hardened and warrior people" (Stefan Brodarics), which motivated the long-standing resistance to Hungarianization and the preservation of the privileges that the Hungarian royalty and great nobility were forced to permanently recognize.

             Practically, until late in the modern era, intertwining their history with that of the native and majority Romanians in Transylvania, opposing the offensive of the royalty of the Hungarian magnates and the Saxon patricians, the Szeklers enjoyed "laws and customs quite different from others. ", dividing among themselves" their inheritances and services on tribes and tribes "(A. Possevino). Used exclusively in military service, they retained their status as free men, still living "according to their laws and morals" (Georg Reichertorffer).
Magysze (
talk) 17:35, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

So, all of that seems to be about the history of the people (which belongs in Székelys). There's very little in there that would speak to the modern tongue spoken by Székelys. I understand you want to see Székely representation in these articles and I'm sympathetic, but it needs to be worked in following Wikipedia's practices and standards. Carter ( talk) 17:47, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

Yes, I opened a new article. It needs structure. Any feedback including advices are welcome. Magysze ( talk) 18:00, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

Magysze, Looking at the page you started, it looks like you're conflating ethnicity with language. Whether or not Székelys originally spoke a Turkic language has little bearing on what is spoken by Székely now. If there is a substrate of a lost Turkic language that can be seen in the Hungarian dialect, that is a distinguishing feature that should be studied (and thus would have high quality reliable sources that could be linked to). Look at Pannonian Avars#Language ... that's the sort of thing you're talking about, but it doesn't reflect the modern language. I would suggest you step back and work on articles as a WP:Draft or even as a draft in your user space. This will help give you time to develop the article and add the all important reliable sources without getting deleted/redirected. Also consider what information is already there (in Székelys, Székely Land, Hungarian dialects, etc.). Ask yourself if what you are adding builds on these, contradicts them, or supplements them. It may be that improvements to those articles will be better than a new article that contradicts or clashes with the existing articles. And be careful about WP:NPOV; I know you're getting provoked by other editors, but the way you're responding with back-and-forth personal comments and walls of copy-pasted text aren't how things are best handled on Wikipedia and can bias people (fairly or not) against your arguements. Carter ( talk) 19:48, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

I see. Thank you Carter. Magysze ( talk) 17:05, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

Pannonian_Avars#Language

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