Hello Tbayboy, and Welcome to Wikipedia!

Hey,

Sorry about this, but I generally revert any unexplained, anonymous-IP change to data. Too many vandals running around changing technical details they hope no-one will notice – and sometimes the damage is not noticed for several years. — kwami ( talk) 17:42, 27 July 2011 (UTC) reply

Is cool. It's what I thought, too, when I first saw it. I'm ambivalent on which number we actually want there, but we should be consistent across all pages (not just Saturn) with whichever choice. Tbayboy ( talk) 18:44, 27 July 2011 (UTC) reply

Hi,

This doesn't make sense. A 2011 measurement can't be ref'd to a 2009 publication. If the actual source ref's Brown et al, then I think either the date of the measurment should be changed to the original measurement, or the new ref should be use with the explanation that they came up with a new interpretation of B's data. — kwami ( talk) 16:07, 17 December 2012 (UTC) reply

The Dumas ref was 2011. It does not give a new measurement, it just refers to the 2009 measurement by Ragozzine. The 2011 VLT parenthetical is incorrect, I'll remove it. I should have seen that! I got caught up in the ref without looking at the rest of it. The VLT refers to the spectroscopy mentioned in the Dumas paper, but it has nothing to do with the size estimate used in that paper. Tbayboy ( talk) 07:01, 18 December 2012 (UTC) reply

Reverted you because your edit summary didn't make sense to me, per Talk. But I'm not defending the Sedna entry either, and it does seem rather unlikely that we have a useful mass estimate for the region. — kwami ( talk) 19:41, 30 December 2013 (UTC) reply

Question at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Astronomy. — kwami ( talk) 20:01, 7 February 2014 (UTC) reply

Thanks for your message. A look on Brown's page showed me a number of object sizes were reestimated again... Ambi Valent ( talk) 01:51, 6 February 2015 (UTC) reply

MansourJE ( talk) 16:32, 16 March 2015 (UTC)YES dwarf galaxies not dwarf planets. reply

Mansour jourabchian esfahahani

@ Tbayboy: Hi there, just to let you know that I updated "Brown's categories – Number of objects" in List of possible dwarf planets, and that the number in all categories significantly increased since your last update earlier this month. -- Cheers, Rfassbind -talk 02:05, 28 April 2015 (UTC) reply

I'll do an update this week. Note that the numbers didn't really change that much: the table on the page did not keep a cumulative count like the table on Brown's page. E.g., Brown's "possibly" count also includes those of all the higher categories, whereas the wiki-table counted only those that in "possibly" but not int "probably" (i.e., the difference between Brown's "possibly" and "probably"). So the numbers should now be 10, 13, 25, ..., versus the old 10, 16, 22. Tbayboy ( talk) 18:19, 28 April 2015 (UTC) reply

@ Tbayboy: thx for the reply. Unfortunately, I didn't notice it since without a reply/ping I most likely miss the entry in my over 300 articles-long watch-list (well, maybe I should say "possibly" rather than "most likely", hehe). A week ago, I was puzzled when counting the records on Mike Brown's website. I was looking for 23 highly-likely records, but only found 13. So now I know why... 23 also includes the 10 objects of the nearly-certainly category! Damn, that's the most stupidest classification system I came across in my entire life. I'll add a foot-note to the wikitable, to people know about the discrepancy. Otherwise every sane Wikipedian (I hope) will attempt to update it. Sorry for any inconvenience I may have caused. -- Cheers, Rfassbind -talk 02:47, 3 May 2015 (UTC) reply

@ Rfassbind: Sorry about the non-ping. I didn't know the etiquette. I didn't set up the little count table, so I don't know why it's different from Brown's. Both ways are useful, depending what you're looking for. Maybe it should have both, in separate columns. Tbayboy ( talk) 02:37, 4 May 2015 (UTC) reply

I'm pretty sure, that a few months ago I updated the table with the figures I found on Brown's website. So now I'm puzzled: what does the table display? If it's not Brown's cumulative count, then it must by the incremental one. So when you generate a new version of the main table, then you surely updated the little one, right? Otherwise I would have to count all rows in the main table to know the incremental figure... I think both metrics are too much. The incremental one would be best. However, only if you're able to update the figures when you generate your main table. -- Rfassbind -talk 03:33, 4 May 2015 (UTC) reply

@ Tbayboy: In addition, thinking about the "incremental vs. cumulative count", there is something that bothered me since the first time I saw the article. A cumulative count is used for "nearly certainly" category objects and the five IAU-recognized dwarf planets. Why label officially recognized DP's as nearly certainly. Since you (correctly, I think) differ from M. Brown's cumulative methodology, then why not be consistent all along, i.e. add a new category that could be called "recognized". Just sayin' - Cheers, Rfassbind -talk 18:41, 3 May 2015 (UTC) reply

@ Rfassbind: Brown doesn't like the idea of the IAU having a list — it's why he started his DP list page in the first place — so that's why his classification doesn't acknowledge them. Tbayboy ( talk) 02:37, 4 May 2015 (UTC) reply

@ Tbayboy:I don't think there is a problem. Brown's classification is AOK, just that the IAU-DP's should be listed as a separate category, since on wikipedia, a IAU-recognized DP is a DP, not just highly likely. After all there is no obligation to follow Brown in each and every detail - you didn't either when using the incremental count (or isn't that your idea after all?... see above). -- Cheers, Rfassbind -talk 03:33, 4 May 2015 (UTC) reply

@ Rfassbind: The incremental count is not my idea, nor adding that table to the wiki. Personally, I think the page is too Brown-centric, and wouldn't have included that table at all, maybe not even his valuation scheme (no peer review, and we know there are errors and deficiencies in it). On the other hand, he seems to be the only usable source that addresses the issue at all. Anyway, if you would like a change (separating the IAU 5, or cummulative counting), suggest it on the talk page. Tbayboy ( talk) 14:52, 4 May 2015 (UTC) reply

The phrase assuming sphericity is nonsense as sphericity is a mathematical property that can have a value between 0 and 1. It does NOT mean that it is a sphere. A sphere has a value of 1. Anything that is not a perfect sphere has a value less than 1. Nyth 63 12:09, 21 May 2015 (UTC) reply

@ Nyth83:I realise that, in the mathematical sense. It does mean "a sphere" in the common sense (see wiktionary), but then the link makes it wrong (maybe it was linked in a subsequent edit?). I restored the original hoping the original author might fix it to reflect what was actually used (that, and "a high sphericity" doesn't make any more sense, in this context). I had been thinking of changing it to "assumming the body is a sphere" (which is a more accessible way of saying "sphericty of 1"), but I'm not sure that that is always correct, since some of the values may have been calculated using ellipsoid formulae. E.g., the volume of Haumea or Saturn. It needs fixing, but I'm hoping it can be changed to reflect reality (the equations used), rather than assumption (equations for a sphere). Tbayboy ( talk) 16:59, 21 May 2015 (UTC) reply

I looked at the wiktionary link and that only confirms that sphericity is a property and does not give common use to mean sphere or spherical. Nyth 63 18:54, 21 May 2015 (UTC) reply

@ Nyth83: Def 1: "The quality of being spherical, being a sphere.". The current "a sphericity of 1" says the same thing. It's the imprecise "high sphericity" I object to. The wiki-calculated numbers would have assumed either a sphere (most likely) or a triaxial ellipsoid (maybe, for some objects). Tbayboy ( talk) 23:20, 21 May 2015 (UTC) reply

That definition is almost oxymoronic. It some field like thermodynamics, quality also has a specific mathematical purpose. And the use in that line still does not mean in common use that sphericity can be used to mean spherical. It is a calculated property of how close an object is to being spherical. It's like people misusing the work literally, as in "I literally laughed my ass off" for emphasis when they are being figurative. It's still wrong. Nyth 63 02:51, 22 May 2015 (UTC) reply

Hi Tbayboy, I just created the article Gonzalo Tancredi and it is still pretty meager. Maybe you'd like to add more content to it. -- Cheers, Rfassbind – talk 20:06, 29 August 2015 (UTC) reply

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Hello, a short message to thank you for creating the SQL script that generates the dwarf planet list. We used it for the French page, see result here: [ [1]]. Best Regards :) -- Gallicbot ( talk) 14:13, 11 April 2016 (UTC) reply

Hello Tbayboy, some new update of our French page today, we added a sort key to your script to render correctly the sorting of bodies, function is listed below:

if exists( select 1 from sys.objects where name = 'To_SortKey' )
        drop function To_SortKey
go
create function To_SortKey ( @lp nvarchar(50) )
	returns nvarchar(12)
as begin
        declare @year nvarchar(4), @letters nvarchar(4), @numbers nvarchar(4), @num int, @letter1 int, @letter2 int

	set @year = left(@lp,4)
	set @letters = substring(@lp,6,2)
	set @numbers = substring(@lp,8,4)

	set @num = cast( @numbers as int )
	set @numbers = right('0000' + cast(@num as nvarchar) , 4)

	set @letter1 = ASCII( substring (@lp,6,1) ) - ASCII ( 'A' )
	set @letter2 = ASCII( substring (@lp,7,1) ) - ASCII ( 'A' )

	set @letters =  right('00' + cast(@letter1 as nvarchar) , 2) +  right('00' + cast(@letter2 as nvarchar) , 2)

        return  @year + @letters + @numbers
end
go

see result here: Liste des planètes potentielles, Cheers. -- (66666) Cernunnos ( talk) 07:20, 10 September 2016 (UTC) reply

@ (66666) Cernunnos: Thanks. It's nice to see somebody else using it. I'll see about working it into the English page. I'm not sure it will work as well there, however, since the dwarf planet template doesn't include the minor planet number, so the sorting will look funny. Tbayboy ( talk) 02:57, 13 September 2016 (UTC) reply

You say the Sun has water? Where and in what form? The Sun is fire. But I anyway didn't think of the Sun rather than of planet Venus which in my opinion must have less water than Io if any, and of asteroids. This page (use a translator if you don't speak German) states that there is an option for a sub-surface water ocean on Io, just like on the other Galilean moons. 212.186.7.232 ( talk) 20:05, 4 May 2019 (UTC) reply

Yes, see Water Found on Sun. There's water vapour in sunspots. Otherwise, even the driest bodies have water trapped in minerals, making your addition to it meaningless. I don't have any confidence in that statement about Io, either, but the solution is to remove it entirely if it's not true (for example, if some asteroid is drier).

I googled "is there water on the sun" (yesterday, forget the page, but one of the top hits) and the reason claimed for Io being so dry is that Jupiter's heat and radition blew away most of the water in that area of its accretion disc before Io formed. (I can't access the source claiming Io is the driest so I don't know what the actual claim there is. So bring it up on the Io talk page and see if anybody has any hard data on it. Tbayboy ( talk) 13:22, 5 May 2019 (UTC) reply

Well there's the free-floating Tesla in a solar orbit. It has no liquid on it, including any water, but that's no natural body. Though certainly some asteroids have no water at all, don't you think? -- 212.186.7.232 ( talk) 13:29, 5 May 2019 (UTC) reply

No, asteroids have water trapped in the minerals. They recently found water embedded in crystals returned from Itokawa. Water is everywhere. Tbayboy ( talk) 13:43, 5 May 2019 (UTC) reply

Still hard to believe that the Sun, planet Venus and tiny asteroids have more water than Io. And I also think we should specify what does "water" actually mean. When we think of water, we usually mean liquid water. Gaseous water is called water vapour. When we talk of solid water we should speak of water ice or of solid water molecules. One should mention it thus in the Io article. 212.186.7.232 ( talk) 16:17, 5 May 2019 (UTC) reply

Astronomically speaking, "water" does not imply liquid. A lot of solar system water is under very high pressure, where our concepts of liquid and ice don't apply. Venus might have a dry surface, but its interior should not be significantly different from Earth's. As mentioned above (see Itokawa), those "dry" asteroids aren't really dry, and are hypothesised to be a major source of earth's surface water. Tbayboy ( talk) 19:56, 5 May 2019 (UTC) reply

So tiny asteroids like 2008 TC3 have more water than one of the biggest moons? 212.186.7.232 ( talk) 04:54, 6 May 2019 (UTC) reply

Don't know, but apparently that's what the source says. This discussion should be on the Io talk page so that someone with access to the source can tell us exactly what it says. Tbayboy ( talk) 12:01, 6 May 2019 (UTC) reply

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