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Shot info (
talk) 07:51, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
p.s. I restrict my comments to the discussion pages because I currently have no desire or time to get involved with the minutiae of the stylistic requirements for the articles themselves. OffTheFence ( talk) 08:04, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
You wrote: "Linde was not a competent judge." That is not for Wikipedia to decide, I hope you understand our policies on WP:OR do not allow us to make judgments on the competency of reliable sources. If you have other reliable sources that are critical of Linde, they should be supplied. I really think your demands upon Dana Ullman to engage in meta-analysis are unreasonable, Linde performed a meta-analysis, and you disparaging him as incompetent does not help matters. — Whig ( talk) 17:16, 22 February 2008 (UTC) This meta-analysis is flawed. Linde also had to publish a correction to his 1997 clinical meta-analysis. We are interacting on a talk page not the article itself. I have no desire to include a formal comment on Linde in the Article. OffTheFence ( talk) 17:41, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
— Whig ( talk) 04:25, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
You should be aware that Homeopathy and related articles are under probation - Editors making disruptive edits to these pages may be banned by an administrator from homeopathy and related articles or project pages. Editors of such articles should be especially mindful of content policies, such as WP:NPOV, and interaction policies, such as WP:CIVIL, WP:NPA, WP:3RR, and WP:POINT. Editors must be individually notified of article probation before being banned. All resulting blocks and bans shall be logged at Talk:Homeopathy/Article probation#Log of blocks and bans, and may be appealed to the Administrators' noticeboard. — Whig ( talk) 23:43, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
By the way, I keep ignoring your comments about referring the contentious material over Linde and Cazin to Wikipedia's arbitration mechanisms because unless others have access to the papers then there is no way for them to have a valid opinion as to their content. As I keep saying, Wikipedia's rules are singularly ill-suited to resolving matters such as this. Much better to debate as grown-ups and reach a consensus. That would have been helped considerably if Dana had condescended to answer any of the various simple questions about the content of the papers he wants to cite. OffTheFence ( talk) 02:00, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
(UTC)
ago called THE HYDROSTATIC PARADOX OF CONTROVERSY? Don't know what that means?--Well, I will tell you. You know, that, if you had a bent tube, one arm of which was of the size of a pipe-stem, and the other big enough to hold the ocean, water would stand at the same height in one as in the other. Controversy equalizes fools and wise men in the same way,--AND THE FOOLS KNOW IT." And no I don't have an original copy of the "Autocrat of the Breakfast Table" sitting by my keyboard, but even if Holmes were fictitious and even if that book didn't exist, the point being made is valid. A bit like that Aztec thing. OffTheFence ( talk) 08:29, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
I am going to answer you once. I will not engage in an ongoing discussion about this here, because I have explained it before. If you believe that there is false information that is being presented, find a verifiable, reliable source that criticizes it. We cannot decide what is true or false in many parts of the encyclopedia, for instance is it true that cannabis is an ingredient in the holy anointing oil? I believe so, but many people disagree, and calamus is the more usual translation. As you can see, this is an article that I have had involvement in, and I would invite you to take a look at it in order to understand how I view policy. I treat homeopathy in the same way. I believe it works, many people do not. Both views should be represented by verifiable, reliable sources. Truth does not enter into it. — Whig ( talk) 08:24, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
p.s. I forgot to ask again whether you had warned him against his accusing me of lying. Have you? OffTheFence ( talk) 10:40, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
It's nice to have one's prejudices confirmed, but sad that they should be confirmed in this way. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Raymond_arritt/Expert_withdrawal OffTheFence ( talk) 09:10, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
Hi OfftheFence, feel free to ignore Whig, he is just trying to push your buttons such that you will snap back at him, and he will then run off to a kind and loving admin crying "OfftheFence was uncivil to me...please block him"... So best not to respond to him, because it's a setup. Shot info ( talk) 07:17, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
My typo there. Thanx for the correction. I know better and have been in touch with Philip in the past. Orangemarlin previously deleted my inclusion of this reference, even though I thought that I was doing you and him a favor. Glad to work with you on this minor point. DanaUllman Talk 21:31, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Your recent talk page conduct has been disruptive. If you suggest an idea, and there is absolutely no enthusiasm from anybody else, then in future I suggest you drop the idea. Suggesting that specific homeopaths were members of religions, and we should therefore have a section which suggests that homeopathy can be viewed as quasi-religious isn't an especially worthwhile proposal. Wikilawyering the talk exists for proposals, so you can propose whatever you want, and indefinitely continue to present argument is disruptive. In accordance with the conditions stated at Talk:Homeopathy/Article probation of which you are aware, I am banning you from all Homeopathy related pages for a period of 7 days. Addhoc ( talk) 13:53, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
It does not please me that you are banned and nor did I personally get you banned as you claim. I merely pointed out that acting in the way you did, spamming the talk page with endless drivel, is a good way to get banned on a talkpage for an article that is already on probation. You are lucky not to have an indef block. You pasted up too much talk, you raised too many questions, you refused to back off when nobody really wanted to run with your idea/proposal, you made inaccurate spurious claims and demonstrated a very limited knowledge of homeopathy or its core principles. You also used insulting terms about belief, science and religion. Taken together your postings amounted to time-wasting drivel. Foolishly, I answered your post thinking you knew something. It soon became apparent you are just a typical anti-homeopathy spammer. You should not engage in a topic where your knowledge is so obviously lacking. What is your motivation for doing so? I would not dream of interfering in an article I know nothing about. Why do you think it OK to do so? I will think over your points and I will let you know if anything can be used for the good of the article, which is what a talk page is for, NOT for debating the rightness or wrongness of the topic and rambling all over the place. Peter morrell 15:11, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
By the way, AdHoc, " Wikilawyering the talk exists for proposals, so you can propose whatever you want, and indefinitely continue to present argument is disruptive." I don't think I understand that bit. OffTheFence ( talk) 16:29, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
You are doing here exactly what you did on the homeopathy talk page. It is not my fault that you got banned. You are the sole architect of your own misfortune. All I did was alert you to the dangerous path you were treading. I am not an admin and have not been instrumental in blocking you. Nor do I have any contact with the admin person who blocked you. What I predicted would happen did happen and I take no pleasure whatsoever in that. If you had been more reasonable and less spamming then maybe some of your points could have been dealt with, but you just would not stop the endless flow of rhetoric. It is obvious to me that your knowledge of homeopathy is limited. Dana Ullman has been using & studying homeopathy for 40 years, myself for 30 years. Please don't insult our intelligence and knowledge by pretending that you know very much because you don't or you would not be asking the silly questions or making the cheap jibes that are peppered throughout your ramblings on the talk page. Just because you have been civil does not mean you were not disruptive. I will think about some of the points you raised and see if any of them can be included. That's all I can promise. thank you Peter morrell 19:44, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
I will see if I can find that article for you. Saying things like: wasting a lifetime believing that sugar pills cure disease, and similarly offensive value judgements that peppered all your previous ramblings, is NOT a way to inspire respect or civil responses to your requests. I would suggest you adopt a more respectful tone or I shall ignore any further attempts to dialogue. Peter morrell 09:53, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
Fret not, prison buddy. You've got strange bedfellows. DanaUllman Talk 22:22, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
An Arbitration case in which you commented has been opened, and is located here. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Homeopathy/Evidence. Please submit your evidence within one week, if possible. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Homeopathy/Workshop.
On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Daniel ( talk) 10:08, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
Hi, I thought I had better let you know that I started an ANI thread related to the current discussion at Talk:Homeopathy#Nature_of_Belief_in_Homeopathy. You can find it at WP:ANI#Homeopathy. -- Hans Adler ( talk) 20:57, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
This arbitration case has been closed and the final decision is available at the link above. Any uninvolved administrator may, on his or her own discretion, impose sanctions on any editor working in the area of conflict (defined as articles which relate to homeopathy, broadly interpreted) if, despite being warned, that editor repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behavior, or any normal editorial process. The sanctions imposed may include blocks of up to one year in length; bans from editing any page or set of pages within the area of conflict; bans on any editing related to the topic or its closely related topics; restrictions on reverts or other specified behaviors; or any other measures which the imposing administrator believes are reasonably necessary to ensure the smooth functioning of the project. User DanaUllman ( talk · contribs) has been banned from Wikipedia for a period of one year. On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Nishkid64 ( Make articles, not wikidrama) 23:54, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
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Welcome!
Hello, OffTheFence, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:
I hope you enjoy editing here and being a
Wikipedian! Please
sign your messages on
discussion pages using four
tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out
Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{helpme}}
before the question. Again, welcome!
Shot info (
talk) 07:51, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
p.s. I restrict my comments to the discussion pages because I currently have no desire or time to get involved with the minutiae of the stylistic requirements for the articles themselves. OffTheFence ( talk) 08:04, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
You wrote: "Linde was not a competent judge." That is not for Wikipedia to decide, I hope you understand our policies on WP:OR do not allow us to make judgments on the competency of reliable sources. If you have other reliable sources that are critical of Linde, they should be supplied. I really think your demands upon Dana Ullman to engage in meta-analysis are unreasonable, Linde performed a meta-analysis, and you disparaging him as incompetent does not help matters. — Whig ( talk) 17:16, 22 February 2008 (UTC) This meta-analysis is flawed. Linde also had to publish a correction to his 1997 clinical meta-analysis. We are interacting on a talk page not the article itself. I have no desire to include a formal comment on Linde in the Article. OffTheFence ( talk) 17:41, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
— Whig ( talk) 04:25, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
You should be aware that Homeopathy and related articles are under probation - Editors making disruptive edits to these pages may be banned by an administrator from homeopathy and related articles or project pages. Editors of such articles should be especially mindful of content policies, such as WP:NPOV, and interaction policies, such as WP:CIVIL, WP:NPA, WP:3RR, and WP:POINT. Editors must be individually notified of article probation before being banned. All resulting blocks and bans shall be logged at Talk:Homeopathy/Article probation#Log of blocks and bans, and may be appealed to the Administrators' noticeboard. — Whig ( talk) 23:43, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
By the way, I keep ignoring your comments about referring the contentious material over Linde and Cazin to Wikipedia's arbitration mechanisms because unless others have access to the papers then there is no way for them to have a valid opinion as to their content. As I keep saying, Wikipedia's rules are singularly ill-suited to resolving matters such as this. Much better to debate as grown-ups and reach a consensus. That would have been helped considerably if Dana had condescended to answer any of the various simple questions about the content of the papers he wants to cite. OffTheFence ( talk) 02:00, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
(UTC)
ago called THE HYDROSTATIC PARADOX OF CONTROVERSY? Don't know what that means?--Well, I will tell you. You know, that, if you had a bent tube, one arm of which was of the size of a pipe-stem, and the other big enough to hold the ocean, water would stand at the same height in one as in the other. Controversy equalizes fools and wise men in the same way,--AND THE FOOLS KNOW IT." And no I don't have an original copy of the "Autocrat of the Breakfast Table" sitting by my keyboard, but even if Holmes were fictitious and even if that book didn't exist, the point being made is valid. A bit like that Aztec thing. OffTheFence ( talk) 08:29, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
I am going to answer you once. I will not engage in an ongoing discussion about this here, because I have explained it before. If you believe that there is false information that is being presented, find a verifiable, reliable source that criticizes it. We cannot decide what is true or false in many parts of the encyclopedia, for instance is it true that cannabis is an ingredient in the holy anointing oil? I believe so, but many people disagree, and calamus is the more usual translation. As you can see, this is an article that I have had involvement in, and I would invite you to take a look at it in order to understand how I view policy. I treat homeopathy in the same way. I believe it works, many people do not. Both views should be represented by verifiable, reliable sources. Truth does not enter into it. — Whig ( talk) 08:24, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
p.s. I forgot to ask again whether you had warned him against his accusing me of lying. Have you? OffTheFence ( talk) 10:40, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
It's nice to have one's prejudices confirmed, but sad that they should be confirmed in this way. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Raymond_arritt/Expert_withdrawal OffTheFence ( talk) 09:10, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
Hi OfftheFence, feel free to ignore Whig, he is just trying to push your buttons such that you will snap back at him, and he will then run off to a kind and loving admin crying "OfftheFence was uncivil to me...please block him"... So best not to respond to him, because it's a setup. Shot info ( talk) 07:17, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
My typo there. Thanx for the correction. I know better and have been in touch with Philip in the past. Orangemarlin previously deleted my inclusion of this reference, even though I thought that I was doing you and him a favor. Glad to work with you on this minor point. DanaUllman Talk 21:31, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Your recent talk page conduct has been disruptive. If you suggest an idea, and there is absolutely no enthusiasm from anybody else, then in future I suggest you drop the idea. Suggesting that specific homeopaths were members of religions, and we should therefore have a section which suggests that homeopathy can be viewed as quasi-religious isn't an especially worthwhile proposal. Wikilawyering the talk exists for proposals, so you can propose whatever you want, and indefinitely continue to present argument is disruptive. In accordance with the conditions stated at Talk:Homeopathy/Article probation of which you are aware, I am banning you from all Homeopathy related pages for a period of 7 days. Addhoc ( talk) 13:53, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
It does not please me that you are banned and nor did I personally get you banned as you claim. I merely pointed out that acting in the way you did, spamming the talk page with endless drivel, is a good way to get banned on a talkpage for an article that is already on probation. You are lucky not to have an indef block. You pasted up too much talk, you raised too many questions, you refused to back off when nobody really wanted to run with your idea/proposal, you made inaccurate spurious claims and demonstrated a very limited knowledge of homeopathy or its core principles. You also used insulting terms about belief, science and religion. Taken together your postings amounted to time-wasting drivel. Foolishly, I answered your post thinking you knew something. It soon became apparent you are just a typical anti-homeopathy spammer. You should not engage in a topic where your knowledge is so obviously lacking. What is your motivation for doing so? I would not dream of interfering in an article I know nothing about. Why do you think it OK to do so? I will think over your points and I will let you know if anything can be used for the good of the article, which is what a talk page is for, NOT for debating the rightness or wrongness of the topic and rambling all over the place. Peter morrell 15:11, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
By the way, AdHoc, " Wikilawyering the talk exists for proposals, so you can propose whatever you want, and indefinitely continue to present argument is disruptive." I don't think I understand that bit. OffTheFence ( talk) 16:29, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
You are doing here exactly what you did on the homeopathy talk page. It is not my fault that you got banned. You are the sole architect of your own misfortune. All I did was alert you to the dangerous path you were treading. I am not an admin and have not been instrumental in blocking you. Nor do I have any contact with the admin person who blocked you. What I predicted would happen did happen and I take no pleasure whatsoever in that. If you had been more reasonable and less spamming then maybe some of your points could have been dealt with, but you just would not stop the endless flow of rhetoric. It is obvious to me that your knowledge of homeopathy is limited. Dana Ullman has been using & studying homeopathy for 40 years, myself for 30 years. Please don't insult our intelligence and knowledge by pretending that you know very much because you don't or you would not be asking the silly questions or making the cheap jibes that are peppered throughout your ramblings on the talk page. Just because you have been civil does not mean you were not disruptive. I will think about some of the points you raised and see if any of them can be included. That's all I can promise. thank you Peter morrell 19:44, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
I will see if I can find that article for you. Saying things like: wasting a lifetime believing that sugar pills cure disease, and similarly offensive value judgements that peppered all your previous ramblings, is NOT a way to inspire respect or civil responses to your requests. I would suggest you adopt a more respectful tone or I shall ignore any further attempts to dialogue. Peter morrell 09:53, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
Fret not, prison buddy. You've got strange bedfellows. DanaUllman Talk 22:22, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
An Arbitration case in which you commented has been opened, and is located here. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Homeopathy/Evidence. Please submit your evidence within one week, if possible. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Homeopathy/Workshop.
On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Daniel ( talk) 10:08, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
Hi, I thought I had better let you know that I started an ANI thread related to the current discussion at Talk:Homeopathy#Nature_of_Belief_in_Homeopathy. You can find it at WP:ANI#Homeopathy. -- Hans Adler ( talk) 20:57, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
This arbitration case has been closed and the final decision is available at the link above. Any uninvolved administrator may, on his or her own discretion, impose sanctions on any editor working in the area of conflict (defined as articles which relate to homeopathy, broadly interpreted) if, despite being warned, that editor repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behavior, or any normal editorial process. The sanctions imposed may include blocks of up to one year in length; bans from editing any page or set of pages within the area of conflict; bans on any editing related to the topic or its closely related topics; restrictions on reverts or other specified behaviors; or any other measures which the imposing administrator believes are reasonably necessary to ensure the smooth functioning of the project. User DanaUllman ( talk · contribs) has been banned from Wikipedia for a period of one year. On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Nishkid64 ( Make articles, not wikidrama) 23:54, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for uploading
File:MV Victoria of Wight leaving Portsmouth 31st Aug 2018.jpeg. The image has been identified as not specifying the copyright status of the image, which is required by Wikipedia's policy on images. Even if you created the image yourself, you still need to release it so Wikipedia can use it. If you don't indicate the copyright status of the image on the image's description page, using an appropriate
copyright tag, it may be deleted some time after the next seven days. If you made this image yourself, you can use copyright tags like {{
PD-self}} (to release all rights), {{
self|CC-by-sa-3.0|GFDL}}
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For more information on using images, see the following pages:
This is an automated notice by MifterBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. NOTE: Once you correct this, please remove the tag from the image's page. -- MifterBot ( Talk • Contribs • Owner) 17:46, 31 August 2018 (UTC)