This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
Just wanted to say thank you so much for your help towards expanding Diss_(music) with good content on history from hip hop! — Shrinkydinks ( talk) 05:14, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
Thanks for contributing to Babak Bayat's article.
Musiban ( talk) 18:07, 28 September 2021 (UTC) |
Hi thanks for creating Marianella Ledesma, which I’ve just reviewed. Mccapra ( talk) 19:13, 25 October 2021 (UTC) |
This is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect. It does not imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date.
You have shown interest in discussions about infoboxes and to edits adding, deleting, collapsing, or removing verifiable information from infoboxes. Due to past disruption in this topic area, a more stringent set of rules called discretionary sanctions is in effect. Any administrator may impose sanctions on editors who do not strictly follow Wikipedia's policies, or the page-specific restrictions, when making edits related to the topic.
For additional information, please see the guidance on discretionary sanctions and the Arbitration Committee's decision here. If you have any questions, or any doubts regarding what edits are appropriate, you are welcome to discuss them with me or any other editor.
– MJL ‐Talk‐ ☖ 15:19, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Normanism, to which you have significantly contributed, is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or if it should be deleted.
The discussion will take place at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Normanism until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article.
To customise your preferences for automated AfD notifications for articles to which you've significantly contributed (or to opt-out entirely), please visit the configuration page. Delivered by SDZeroBot ( talk) 01:03, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
Thank you for your close of the RFC on DRASTIC. Please can you clarify your close further, as multiple descriptors was discussed, and the use of just one was (for me) the main reason for the RFC in the first place. I had specifically asked Paine Ellsworth about this in their !vote [1], as the choice of "internet activists" alone is not supported by the bulk of sources. Other controversial subjects, such as Edward Snowden and Julian Assange are given multiple descriptions, reflecting the multitude of POVs in RS. LondonIP ( talk) 00:10, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
the bulk of RScan be said to support any particular phrasing, and so I stand by my decision to treat other angles of argument as most decisive. Overall - I appreciate the questions that have been raised, but I still do feel that my closure of the discussion was sound. ModernDayTrilobite ( talk) 16:11, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
Anyone who wants to have more comments on the topic can restart an RfC that has ended, as long as the discussion has not been closed.and under "Bad questions":
We should talk about this some more.— Shibbolethink ( ♔ ♕) 01:39, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
Hey ModernDayTrilobite,
Thanks for bringing up the discussion about the article name for Irechecua. Although I hope we've established why moving back to Tarascan isn't the best idea, I'd rather not just leave it there because leaving it at Irechecua is also demonstrated to be unwise. So would you be interested in a follow up discussion where we decide on a rename? TangoFett ( talk) 22:07, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
Thanks for your wit in closing that discussion! 𝕸𝖗 𝕽𝖊𝖆𝖉𝖎𝖓𝖌 𝕿𝖚𝖗𝖙𝖑𝖊 🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦 ( talk) 21:17, 19 May 2022 (UTC) |
That was a supervote, and I would request you undo your close for a more experienced editor in a topic area covered by discretionary sanctions. nableezy - 12:47, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
I was not overly impressed with that close, "clashes" is not only plural (the article was about one event), the title was descriptive so commonname doesn't really enter into it. You neglected/declined to say what you thought about the canvassing and you should also know (do you?) that lockstep voting on contentious issues is quite common in IP area. Selfstudier ( talk) 18:24, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
So youre unwilling to undo your close to allow for a more experienced editor to close it? Because this is step one of WP:CLOSECHALLENGE and if youre unwilling to undo it then I can proceed with the other steps. nableezy - 21:27, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
Could you edit the Hip Hop template to look more like this?
Collapsing the depicted template for readability of the overall page.
|
---|
24.178.76.27 ( talk) 22:34, 15 September 2022 (UTC)
Hi, I would question the close in respect to the matter of capitalisation. As I can see, there are two editors that would lowercase, two that would argue against this and two that that would suggest this be resolved separately - of the last, both would have opposing views on capitalisation but that introducing the question of capitalisation would further complicate the primary question of the RM. The close would state: This evidence alone didn't suggest a clear consensus for one capitalization or the other ...
I would suggest that if there had been a discussion that focused on the specific question of capitalisation, then a conclusion might have been reached. Where the close would state: ... advocates of the capitalized form also emphasized that the capitalized title would be
WP:CONSISTENT ...
, I can only see one such mention. Per
WP:AT, consistency does not have primacy over the other advice therein, including
WP:TITLEFORMAT, which gives voice to
WP:NCCAPS and consequently
MOS:CAPS. See also,
WP:CRITERIA that would clearly state that consistency is but one consideration that must be balanced with consideration of other stated criteria. Where the close would state: Thus, the capitalized title proved to be backed by a broader range of policy
, the validity of this statement is far from clear. I'm not seeing a broad range of policy being raise to support capitalisation, let alone a broader range. Perhaps you might clarify this for me as I am not seeing that the close particularly reflects the discussion. Regards,
Cinderella157 (
talk) 05:28, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
You closed the recent RM as no consensus, but I think the longstanding title ( Iberia (theme)) should be restored given the much lower level of participation/discussion in the previous RM. I don't dispute the close per se, but I think the result should be a restoration of the status quo ante. Srnec ( talk) 23:20, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
(Apologies for the wall of text, but I wanted to explain my thinking on the matter as thoroughly as possible.)
I've given the matter some thought and I think it's ultimately best to leave the title at Iberia (theme). The situation on the ground here is an unusual one: the second RM opened just ten days after the first closed, and while in many cases that would result in a rapid procedural close, in this case the second RM actually attracted a larger base of participants and a richer discussion than the first. Because there was minimal momentum behind proposals for a procedural close in the second RM, it suggests to me that the interested editors did not feel that the first RM had sufficiently explored the issues at play – that is to say, while the closure of the first RM was a sound reading of the RM's consensus, the interested community appeared to feel that the RM participants had not factored all of the relevant PAG questions into their discussion.
What this means in practice is that the second RM was essentially a re-litigation of the first rather than a wholly independent proposal. Accordingly, the arguments from the first RM all reappeared and were discussed in the second one. I turn in particular here to the question of confusion and WP:ASTONISHment, which was central to the first RM. This argument – viz. that the title needed the term "Byzantine" to prevent confusion with other meanings of "theme" – did not have the same decisive power when it was raised in the second RM. This time, a guideline was leveled in direct opposition to the argument (specifically WP:NWFCTM); additionally, with the broader slate of arguments at play in the second discussion, one participant who had !voted for "Iberia, Byzantine Empire" in the first RM changed their mind and ultimately voted for "Iberia (theme)". (This participant, additionally, was one of only two "Iberia, Byzantine Empire" supporters to provide any rationale for their !vote.) These arguments took place in conjunction with a general opposition to the "Iberia, Byzantine Empire" title among the second RM's participants. The aforementioned factors, in the context of the second RM, seem to me to overwrite the consensus that the first RM had found.
When taking all of this into consideration, my overall read of the situation is effectively thus: the community (which I use here to mean the body of editors interested in the article's subject matter) largely ignored the first RM, presumably having no strong feelings about the proposed "Theme of Iberia" in contrast to "Iberia (theme)". However, the people who did participate in the first RM preferred a third title instead (namely, "Iberia, Byzantine Empire"). While they did not have a clear preference for or against "Theme of Iberia" when compared only to "Iberia (theme)", the community did feel that either title was preferable to "Iberia, Byzantine Empire", and thus turned out in larger numbers when the second RM provided them an opportunity to change it. In this environment, the whole picture makes me reticent to say that there is overall a consensus to remain at "Iberia, Byzantine Empire". Returning to the pre-either-RM stable title, meanwhile, allows us to avoid a situation where the article title is left at a widely disliked option due to lack of a dominating favorite alternative. I acknowledge that, by enacting this move, I'm taking an expansive interpretation of my mandate as the closer of the discussion; nevertheless, I think this is the option that most accurately represents the overall will of the full slate of discussion participants. Finally, I'll reiterate my opinion that a follow-up talk page discussion would be helpful to seek out a title that would bring with it a clear affirmative consensus – I may have changed the title of the page, but I don't intend for my move to be a permanent solution. ModernDayTrilobite ( talk • contribs) 21:59, 11 October 2022 (UTC)
... for a constructive comment in the Laurence Olivier RfC, to which I referred in my arbcand questions. -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 10:44, 30 November 2022 (UTC)
Why did you revert my edit for Glass Onion, in which I added a link to the article for Governor of Connecticut? Thanks.
Elendil's Heir
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
Just wanted to say thank you so much for your help towards expanding Diss_(music) with good content on history from hip hop! — Shrinkydinks ( talk) 05:14, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
Thanks for contributing to Babak Bayat's article.
Musiban ( talk) 18:07, 28 September 2021 (UTC) |
Hi thanks for creating Marianella Ledesma, which I’ve just reviewed. Mccapra ( talk) 19:13, 25 October 2021 (UTC) |
This is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect. It does not imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date.
You have shown interest in discussions about infoboxes and to edits adding, deleting, collapsing, or removing verifiable information from infoboxes. Due to past disruption in this topic area, a more stringent set of rules called discretionary sanctions is in effect. Any administrator may impose sanctions on editors who do not strictly follow Wikipedia's policies, or the page-specific restrictions, when making edits related to the topic.
For additional information, please see the guidance on discretionary sanctions and the Arbitration Committee's decision here. If you have any questions, or any doubts regarding what edits are appropriate, you are welcome to discuss them with me or any other editor.
– MJL ‐Talk‐ ☖ 15:19, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Normanism, to which you have significantly contributed, is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or if it should be deleted.
The discussion will take place at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Normanism until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article.
To customise your preferences for automated AfD notifications for articles to which you've significantly contributed (or to opt-out entirely), please visit the configuration page. Delivered by SDZeroBot ( talk) 01:03, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
Thank you for your close of the RFC on DRASTIC. Please can you clarify your close further, as multiple descriptors was discussed, and the use of just one was (for me) the main reason for the RFC in the first place. I had specifically asked Paine Ellsworth about this in their !vote [1], as the choice of "internet activists" alone is not supported by the bulk of sources. Other controversial subjects, such as Edward Snowden and Julian Assange are given multiple descriptions, reflecting the multitude of POVs in RS. LondonIP ( talk) 00:10, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
the bulk of RScan be said to support any particular phrasing, and so I stand by my decision to treat other angles of argument as most decisive. Overall - I appreciate the questions that have been raised, but I still do feel that my closure of the discussion was sound. ModernDayTrilobite ( talk) 16:11, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
Anyone who wants to have more comments on the topic can restart an RfC that has ended, as long as the discussion has not been closed.and under "Bad questions":
We should talk about this some more.— Shibbolethink ( ♔ ♕) 01:39, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
Hey ModernDayTrilobite,
Thanks for bringing up the discussion about the article name for Irechecua. Although I hope we've established why moving back to Tarascan isn't the best idea, I'd rather not just leave it there because leaving it at Irechecua is also demonstrated to be unwise. So would you be interested in a follow up discussion where we decide on a rename? TangoFett ( talk) 22:07, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
Thanks for your wit in closing that discussion! 𝕸𝖗 𝕽𝖊𝖆𝖉𝖎𝖓𝖌 𝕿𝖚𝖗𝖙𝖑𝖊 🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦 ( talk) 21:17, 19 May 2022 (UTC) |
That was a supervote, and I would request you undo your close for a more experienced editor in a topic area covered by discretionary sanctions. nableezy - 12:47, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
I was not overly impressed with that close, "clashes" is not only plural (the article was about one event), the title was descriptive so commonname doesn't really enter into it. You neglected/declined to say what you thought about the canvassing and you should also know (do you?) that lockstep voting on contentious issues is quite common in IP area. Selfstudier ( talk) 18:24, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
So youre unwilling to undo your close to allow for a more experienced editor to close it? Because this is step one of WP:CLOSECHALLENGE and if youre unwilling to undo it then I can proceed with the other steps. nableezy - 21:27, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
Could you edit the Hip Hop template to look more like this?
Collapsing the depicted template for readability of the overall page.
|
---|
24.178.76.27 ( talk) 22:34, 15 September 2022 (UTC)
Hi, I would question the close in respect to the matter of capitalisation. As I can see, there are two editors that would lowercase, two that would argue against this and two that that would suggest this be resolved separately - of the last, both would have opposing views on capitalisation but that introducing the question of capitalisation would further complicate the primary question of the RM. The close would state: This evidence alone didn't suggest a clear consensus for one capitalization or the other ...
I would suggest that if there had been a discussion that focused on the specific question of capitalisation, then a conclusion might have been reached. Where the close would state: ... advocates of the capitalized form also emphasized that the capitalized title would be
WP:CONSISTENT ...
, I can only see one such mention. Per
WP:AT, consistency does not have primacy over the other advice therein, including
WP:TITLEFORMAT, which gives voice to
WP:NCCAPS and consequently
MOS:CAPS. See also,
WP:CRITERIA that would clearly state that consistency is but one consideration that must be balanced with consideration of other stated criteria. Where the close would state: Thus, the capitalized title proved to be backed by a broader range of policy
, the validity of this statement is far from clear. I'm not seeing a broad range of policy being raise to support capitalisation, let alone a broader range. Perhaps you might clarify this for me as I am not seeing that the close particularly reflects the discussion. Regards,
Cinderella157 (
talk) 05:28, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
You closed the recent RM as no consensus, but I think the longstanding title ( Iberia (theme)) should be restored given the much lower level of participation/discussion in the previous RM. I don't dispute the close per se, but I think the result should be a restoration of the status quo ante. Srnec ( talk) 23:20, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
(Apologies for the wall of text, but I wanted to explain my thinking on the matter as thoroughly as possible.)
I've given the matter some thought and I think it's ultimately best to leave the title at Iberia (theme). The situation on the ground here is an unusual one: the second RM opened just ten days after the first closed, and while in many cases that would result in a rapid procedural close, in this case the second RM actually attracted a larger base of participants and a richer discussion than the first. Because there was minimal momentum behind proposals for a procedural close in the second RM, it suggests to me that the interested editors did not feel that the first RM had sufficiently explored the issues at play – that is to say, while the closure of the first RM was a sound reading of the RM's consensus, the interested community appeared to feel that the RM participants had not factored all of the relevant PAG questions into their discussion.
What this means in practice is that the second RM was essentially a re-litigation of the first rather than a wholly independent proposal. Accordingly, the arguments from the first RM all reappeared and were discussed in the second one. I turn in particular here to the question of confusion and WP:ASTONISHment, which was central to the first RM. This argument – viz. that the title needed the term "Byzantine" to prevent confusion with other meanings of "theme" – did not have the same decisive power when it was raised in the second RM. This time, a guideline was leveled in direct opposition to the argument (specifically WP:NWFCTM); additionally, with the broader slate of arguments at play in the second discussion, one participant who had !voted for "Iberia, Byzantine Empire" in the first RM changed their mind and ultimately voted for "Iberia (theme)". (This participant, additionally, was one of only two "Iberia, Byzantine Empire" supporters to provide any rationale for their !vote.) These arguments took place in conjunction with a general opposition to the "Iberia, Byzantine Empire" title among the second RM's participants. The aforementioned factors, in the context of the second RM, seem to me to overwrite the consensus that the first RM had found.
When taking all of this into consideration, my overall read of the situation is effectively thus: the community (which I use here to mean the body of editors interested in the article's subject matter) largely ignored the first RM, presumably having no strong feelings about the proposed "Theme of Iberia" in contrast to "Iberia (theme)". However, the people who did participate in the first RM preferred a third title instead (namely, "Iberia, Byzantine Empire"). While they did not have a clear preference for or against "Theme of Iberia" when compared only to "Iberia (theme)", the community did feel that either title was preferable to "Iberia, Byzantine Empire", and thus turned out in larger numbers when the second RM provided them an opportunity to change it. In this environment, the whole picture makes me reticent to say that there is overall a consensus to remain at "Iberia, Byzantine Empire". Returning to the pre-either-RM stable title, meanwhile, allows us to avoid a situation where the article title is left at a widely disliked option due to lack of a dominating favorite alternative. I acknowledge that, by enacting this move, I'm taking an expansive interpretation of my mandate as the closer of the discussion; nevertheless, I think this is the option that most accurately represents the overall will of the full slate of discussion participants. Finally, I'll reiterate my opinion that a follow-up talk page discussion would be helpful to seek out a title that would bring with it a clear affirmative consensus – I may have changed the title of the page, but I don't intend for my move to be a permanent solution. ModernDayTrilobite ( talk • contribs) 21:59, 11 October 2022 (UTC)
... for a constructive comment in the Laurence Olivier RfC, to which I referred in my arbcand questions. -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 10:44, 30 November 2022 (UTC)
Why did you revert my edit for Glass Onion, in which I added a link to the article for Governor of Connecticut? Thanks.
Elendil's Heir