Welcome Llydia!

So, thank you very much for the warm welcome. My first contributions in my native language (German) are already waiting to be reviewd. For now I kind of hesitate; should I read all that valuable and helpful information first, risking to forget half of it before I get to apply it or should I jump in, fall on my nose, risk criticizm and learn by doing, which is usually my preferred approach - however I don't want to unnerve more experienced contributors and editors by making a zillion layout and stylistic mistakes. For now I'm doing a bit of both...

Plus there's huge cultural differnces in the different language versions, for example: many english biographic articles usually feature a nice box with personal information - something we don't have in the german version - and even though I might think it's something really helpful to gain an overview at one glimpse, I have to keep in mind that the form which is the norm should be respected.

In the near future the only way that I might possibly contribute to the english version of Wikipedia is probably to contribute content to articles which already exist, but have been marked as way too short and offer a more extensive german version.

Do you think that sounds like a good idea for an absolute beginner who is not a digital native? Llydia ( talk) 15:06, 14 February 2021 (UTC) 21.02.21 16:06 CET reply

Hi Llydia, Wikipedia encourages being bold so if you are comfortable diving in, go for it. Just be aware each Wikipedia language has their own policies and guidelines so what may be acceptable for the German project may not be acceptable here and vice versa. As far as infoboxes, they are optional so do not feel you need to create or edit them. Also, you are welcome to ask questions at the Teahouse even if it is just to have someone check behind something you did. S0091 ( talk) 15:30, 14 February 2021 (UTC) reply

Your input has been very helpful so far, I really do apprechiate it. I looked into the possibility of getting adopted... hopefully by someone who is also active in various languages, however for now I decided to "be bold", as encouraged. As I researched the English version of a biographic article ( Septima_Poinsette_Clark), a shorter version of which I would like to create in German I found relevant information in an outside source, which seem to be from a university website, as the source contained "polisci.usca.edu" . The current infobox didn't mention the two children, which were however mentioned on the university website. My current plan is to look for other aspects that could make the article more informative and then get help with the actual implantation at Teahouse, as you suggested! At this point I'm not even sure if I am allowed to copy and paste the pictures from other language versions. Is that permitted within Wikipedia? Greetings from Germany Llydia ( talk) 10:05, 16 February 2021 (UTC) reply

( talk page stalker) If you want to chat to some experienced native German Wikipedians who edit the English Wikipedia, SoWhy and Gerda Arendt spring to mind. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 15:43, 16 February 2021 (UTC) reply

Hello Ritchie333, you didn't just point out someone I may be able to ask for direct advice, you also taught me what a ( talk page stalker) is and I really apprechiate your input! Even though my skills within this community are still very basic, feel free to contact me in case you would like to incorporate any information which might only be available in German & I enjoyed getting lost while looking at all your little assembled Babel-tiles. You are quite brave to be so upfront about such a large variety of subjects, chapeau! Llydia ( talk) 16:07, 16 February 2021 (UTC) reply

Hi Llydia. Now I don't want to be a stick in the mud, but I noticed you changed Gretchen Lederer and Lewis Henry Haney to show their marriage. I was looking for a source of this information outside of IMDB, which is usually considered problematic as anyone can contribute anything to it, so there's little peer review. Unfortunately a Google search for "Gretchen Lederer" "Lewis Haney" brings up nothing else. How did you find this information? Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 17:39, 17 February 2021 (UTC) reply

Good morning Ritchie, no one who has a valid point will ever be a "stick in the mud" (made me laugh!). Let me wrap it up: I looked for articles not present in German jet - so there was Gretchen, however her current article was a mean little stump, and the only thing I was able to add, with the sources already given (as adding sources is above what I can do at this point) . However this is why peer review is so important: you caught me with a mistake I failed to notice - the guy she was married to was also called Lewis H. Haney - but it turns out it was was Lewis Herbert Haney, now that I double-checked. Entering Lewis H. Haney into wikipedia and not confronting the exact dates of birth and death was definetely my wrong! this was the source: https://de.findagrave.com/memorial/18663/gretchen-lederer the additions of the son, and the place of birth and death should be accurate though. If I manage to find more about her, I'll be back - however I'll be sure to double-check and be more precise about it. Thank you for being friendly about it... I apprechiate your input! Llydia ( talk) 08:41, 18 February 2021 (UTC) reply

Hello Ritchie333,I do hope this one went better: /info/en/?search=Clementine_Helm - even though I was unable to take the picture from the German version...

Hi there, Llydia, and welcome to the English Wikipedia. First of all, I would like to congratulate you on your excellent knowledge of English -- far better than many of the native speakers who contribute here. Secondly, I would really like to encourage you to have a go at creating your own articles. It's really not as difficult as you might think. I see from your German user page that you are keen to write about women in connection with WikiProjekt Frauen/Frauen in Rot. The English equivalent is wp:Women in Red where you'll find lots of editors keen to help you along if we can persuade you to write about some of the really notable German women who do not yet have an article in English. You can always start in your sandbox or user space where you don't need to bother too much about making mistakes. Just drop me a line if you need assistance. I also speak German if you run into any translation difficulties. Happy editing!-- Ipigott ( talk) 12:52, 19 February 2021 (UTC) reply

Hello, Ipigott - Awww - that is so kind :-) Actually your message motivated me enough to compose an article on a German scientist, Viola Priesemann, who just won a price for her calculations of various corona spreading scenarios. She's big news, however without an english article - I struggle with rigging up the sources thoug, however I solved one problem alone: I managed to create this sub-page; https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=User:LLydia/subpage/draf_Priesemann,_Viola and hopefully you or Ritchie333 or Megalibrarygirl (talk)might be able to help with that and/ or tell me what needs to be done before it can go online? Greeting from Germany :-) Llydia ( talk) 17:34, 19 February 2021 (UTC) reply

I did some clean up on the wikilinks and added the reflist template ({{reflist}}) so when you add citations they will automatically populate. I changed one of the hyperlinks to a citation so you can see how it works. I suggest reading referencing for beginners. I generally find using Visual Editor easiest (the pencil icon at top right of the edit screen allows you to switch between Source or Visual editing). S0091 ( talk) 18:11, 19 February 2021 (UTC) reply

Your friendly input really helped S0091! I rigged up the other references with the same pattern. I do care about the information and tutorials already provided, however I tend to try figure things out by myself, because I tend to be overwhelmed by too much input. This approach put an end to my first attempts to contribute to wikipedia a few years ago. This time I am glad to have such an amount of friendly support. I made a few more changes, e.g. adding the personal webpage of Ms. Priesemann (bilingual) and I will now attempt to publish the article. Llydia ( talk) 11:14, 21 February 2021 (UTC) reply

Congratulations on Viola Priesemann. You might find it useful to look at the changes and additions made by other editors as a basis for future work. I hope this will be the first of many more articles about women.-- Ipigott ( talk) 11:50, 22 February 2021 (UTC) reply

Thank you Ipigott - I guess I also have to learn that I will only view a part of additional contributions as helpful - but I think that is normal. E. g. I left some of the info provided on the German version out, as I also feared it was "too closely accociated with the subject", however someone else added it. On the other hand I still didn't know about the No_original_research policy. In the end I am happy though that I even managed to link engl & ger version - and I'm sure my future articles will profit from what I learned dealing with this one. Hopefully by opting for subjects without any recent achievements it will be easier. Llydia ( talk) 12:56, 22 February 2021 (UTC) reply

Good work on Viola Priesemann, my friend, and welcome to WP. You have received a lot of helpful advice - but if you want to talk to someone who is also inexperienced (maybe it will feel less threatening? ), I can try to help. The questions you raised at Mary Jones (trans woman) (which led me to you) did stray a bit from WP's purposes—not so much to analyze but to report information—but I did see something there you did very good: questioning whether sources back up statements in the article. There is definitely more to say there, and I hope to do some of my own research soon and to revisit your questions with my own report on the 'state' of the facts... best wishes, Urve ( talk) 23:33, 27 February 2021 (UTC) reply

Thank you, Urve! After my article about Viola Priesemann had been first changed and then marked as one-sided that experience taught me to re-evaluate my approach and to prefer dedicating my attention to people who lived in the past. Looking at your entry about Talk:Hard_Punishments, I found the link [ [1]] and noticed that there are quite some female German writers with no english entry (e.g. Elisabeth Dauthendey, 1854-1943). However I would also like to add more detail to the existing article of the last women publicly beheaded in Bremen, Gesche_Gottfried. Besides the dreadful story of her life, she seems to be a victim of misinterpreted facts. Before I do anything to the information currently available about her, I plan to read the additional research (complied after the trial records resurfaced). As you stated that you are also interested in the question of how an article is backed up with evidence, and offered to help the total newcomer, I would be happy to invite you to look at additions I come up with for engl versions. After all its not my native language, a fact that provides me with an additional possibility of (relative) failure... So please let me know if I may contact you when I have come up with something. Llydia ( talk) 13:26, 28 February 2021 (UTC) reply

Yes, of course, I'd love to take a look—just leave me a message on my talk page. I used to speak German, but no longer can. So my ability to find or evaluate sources in that language will be very minimal, but I can try.

By the way, you may find WP:Indent helpful. Notice how my reply here is indented after yours? I do this by placing one colon : before my message. To reply to me, you could place two colons :: before yours. That makes it a bit easier to discern who is saying what, but also, in reply to what. On article talk pages, good indentation can be really helpful for organization and understanding how a conversation is progressing. Urve ( talk) 21:13, 28 February 2021 (UTC) reply

One more tip, no need to do underscores when linking to pages. In fact, generally they have shortcuts (noted on the right hand side of the relevant page) which you can use when communicating to an experienced editor. For example, a shortcut for the No original research policy is WP:OR or you can add a pipe to change the verbiage like [[WP:OR|original research]] renders like original research. S0091 ( talk) 21:24, 28 February 2021 (UTC) reply

Now I opted for someone less controversial ... until I did what I could the article had been marked as a stump for 8 years: Clementine Helm - but unfortunately my skills were not good enough to transfer the picture of her, eventhough the copyright time is up, she died 125 years ago. I would apprechiate your thoughts on how it went, if you have the time Greetings, Llydia ( talk) 16:29, 2 March 2021 (UTC) reply

Hello - I will ask around to see how to include her image. I did not see your comment until now; you can always ask me something on my talk page, and I'll be sure to see it there. Thanks, Urve ( talk) 23:34, 4 March 2021 (UTC) reply

Hello, I'm TJRC. I noticed that you added or changed content in an article, List of burials at Oak Hill Cemetery, but you didn't provide a reliable source. It's been removed and archived in the page history for now, but if you'd like to include a citation and re-add it, please do so. You can have a look at the tutorial on citing sources. If you think I made a mistake, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. TJRC ( talk) 22:15, 21 March 2021 (UTC) reply

Good Morning TJRC, thank you for telling my why my addition was temporarily removed. Most of the other people on the list had no reference, however I can suggest/ provide one that is propably better then find a grave: ^[1] If you tell me this is the way I should back it up, I'll readd it, ok? As I've only been here for a month - and the rules for the German articles (I also write) are different - it just takes me a moment to get everything right. Thank you for reaching out and have a good day Llydia ( talk) 08:23, 22 March 2021 (UTC) reply

The others should, too. The article is under-cited.

Your LOC cite is a good one; I'll re-add your entry with that cite. Thanks! TJRC ( talk) 17:01, 22 March 2021 (UTC) reply

By the way, Find-a-Grave is not a reliable source; see Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Perennial_sources#Find_a_Grave. It's user-generated, just like Wikipedia is. TJRC ( talk) 17:06, 22 March 2021 (UTC) reply

Very kind of you TJRC, I appreciate the way you give reasons for your statements ans I also want to help and improve the credibility of the content I contribute to, by paing attention to those things. After just one month of being here it seems, like there are a lot of articles out there that are below the desired standart in different ways... Greetings from Germany Llydia ( talk) 19:07, 22 March 2021 (UTC) reply

Don't worry, you're doing fine. Your contributions to the English Wikipedia are far superior to any that I could possibly make to the German one!

I tweaked Nancy Maria Donaldson Johnson a bit, too. That's not a criticism of your edits, just the way things work here: all the editors make a few changes, nudging the articles further in the right direction, and usually over time they shape up pretty well. But, I do agree with your observation that many articles still require work. TJRC ( talk) 21:59, 22 March 2021 (UTC) reply

Hello TJRC, when I wrote my first article about the physicist Viola Priesemann it turned out for the worse though; people added so many one-sided sources, that it got flagged. Good thing she's not my sister, or I would have taken it personally. Now I try to dedicate more energy to people who are no longer alive, as there is less drama involved - especially when there are good sources to rely on. However I also experienced an example when the system of improvement worked out, as in Clementine Helm. And btw. Nancy Johnson was my first German article that "went well" and was improved by other editors. I also prefer to not see any changes to improve what I did as criticism, however nobody has been as friendly about it as you so far. It's the kind of encouragement new contributors like myself really value! have a good day Llydia ( talk) 08:41, 23 March 2021 (UTC) reply

Hi.

When I reverted your addition to the Daniele Archibugi article, I did so because it was unreferenced and the consensus here is that additions to articles about living people must be referenced so that they can be verified. That's all. I never thought the data you added was made up.

The source you've found isn't ideal because it's a primary source (that is, it was produced by the subject himself and not by a third party such as a reputable newspaper), and those aren't liked by many editors. However, primary sources aren't completely banned here so you can try adding the birth date back with a reference to the PDF (something like <ref>{{cite web |title=Daniele Archibugi CV |url=http://www.danielearchibugi.org/downloads/papers/2017/11/Archibugi-CV-September-2017.pdf |access-date=15 February 2022 |language=Italian}}</ref>) and see what happens. I'm afraid it's quite likely that another editor will revert it again on the basis that the source is primary, so please don't be upset if this happens.

Good luck. Neiltonks ( talk) 16:02, 15 February 2022 (UTC) reply

Thank you for your kind answer Neiltonks. It is true, sometimes it seems frustrating, like when Tarantula! was erased from the List of natural horror films, because some people think a film that's placed in Science Fiction can only be that. I was glad for your help in this case. I've just been here 1 year (yersterday) so it's encouraging to find helpful advice, despite me venting a bit.

Greetings from Leipzig, Llydia ( talk) 16:14, 15 February 2022 (UTC) reply

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