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I tried to but a userbox on that displays
This user scored 1,000,000 (You are Jimbo Wales) on the Wikipediholic test. |
{{User Wikipediholic|1,000,000 (You are Jimbo Wales)}}
In good humor because the Wikipediaholic test really says that if you get a 1000000 on the test then "You are Jimbo Wales! We love you!"
Users are reverting my edit, can you tell me why? It seems to be an appopiate edit?
I believe that you do not contribute to Wikipedia and other Wikimedia projects enough. The perception that results is that you do not take them seriously. Your comment that being an administrator is not a "big deal" is indicative of your attitude. My perception is that users here only take the rules that they believe in seriously and tend not to care about the consequences of their actions. All organizations--but especially large ones--need strong leadership. Many of your lesser-known sites have never even been edited by you. I'm not talking about foreign-language wikis, but English ones. We have the arbitration committee, but they are divided and operate in a limited scope. Committees are notorious for being slow and weak, as well. We need someone to set a good example for administrators and to clarify what our complex--and increasingly obscure--rules really mean.-- Th45623j ( talk) 06:34, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
You and this guy look like brothers. :p See http://groovyvic.mu.nu/archives/images/050930_ArtsBonaduce_hsmall.widec.jpg The Wookieepedian ( talk) 06:44, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
I disagree. See:
☯ Zenwhat ( talk) 22:02, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
Hi? I hope your administrator(s) from wikipedia can be maintained a good quality standard. Please refer to their works: [1] Actually it doesn't matter for me much because I didn't edit Wikiedpia anymore, but I just feel sick of your administrators. I wish you could reform your mechanism of choosing administators sometime, otherwise most readers would like to switch to Knol instead. I know you won't take any action 100 and 10% for sure. At least this message can give you some impressions in your mind. Coloane ( talk) 07:22, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
In Soviet Wikipedia, bad article delete you! ☯ Zenwhat ( talk) 21:57, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
Hi there, I took the liberty of adding this talk page to SineBot's high priority list, since it looks like a lot of new people tend to come here and quite a few comments were going unsigned. Lemme know if you'd it rather not. Cheers =) -- slakr\ talk / 22:14, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
It just seems contradictory to me, considering how this site's users are supposed to be held to standards like "assuming good faith," and "maintaining neutral point-of-view." I don't want to be a bootlicker, and I don't want to accrue bootlickers of my own, but I don't know how to contribute successfully and avoid that, when every Tom, Dick, and Harry can see my IP address. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.65.67.68 ( talk) 04:45, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
You could try registering. ☯ Zenwhat ( talk) 06:19, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
In the case of most users, your IP address tells others almost nothing about you. It will give your ISP and depending on which ISP you have, it may give the general area you live in. Many ISPs use dynamic IPs that change periodically. Its not like I can just click a couple links and pull up a map to your house given your IP address. Mr. Z-man 18:39, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
The real question is what benefit is there in anonymity for Wikipedia? The answer is none. Anonymity bring out the worst aspect of human behavior. The most dangerous and corrupt abuses of power go hand-in-hand with a lack of accountability and transparency. One needs only to reference Wikipedia's problems with admin and secret mailing lists to understand the problems that anonymity bring to Wikipedia. 68.117.211.187 ( talk) 20:33, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
I'm frustrated because I've been having a messy dispute over controversial topic X!
I would like you to risk your credibility as Chief Emeritus, infuriate a vast number of users, and run Wikia into the ground by being a rogue dictator for once instead of being so benevolent -- strictly for my sake, of course, because I'm a nice guy.
If you refuse or outright ignore me, I will have to therefore logically assume Wikipedia has been compromised by a conspiratorial cabal intended to distort the truth about controversial topic X. I will then have to follow up by letting my account go down in flames, like the Hindenberg, by engaging in a downward spiral of flamewars that inevitably lead to my account being permanently blocked.
Thanks! Your help would be appreciated! ☯ Zenwhat ( talk) 00:11, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
Jimmy, User:Mitrebox has especially been engaging in POV-pushing on this issue. I mean, just look at the last letter of his account name. Why do you allow this to continue?!?
And I've dealt with several administrators abusing their powers by immediately banning anyone who supports Z.
See WP:Special log. ☯ Zenwhat ( talk) 00:48, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
Come everyone, let's work together in a spirit of respect to settle this dispute. Understandably, given the complex history, the advocates of X and those who disagree with them have a difficult time remaining calm. After all, lives have been lost, core human values are at stake (for both sides), and the topic has been debated by philosophers, theologians, and scientists for centuries. We can only try our best to work together in harmony, not *engaging* in the dispute, but merely *presenting* the dispute in a manner that both sides can point to our work and say, with pride, "I helped with that, and if you read it, you will understand what this controversy is about."
Most people can do that, but sadly a few can not. And for all of us, there are probably some topics where we should not trust ourselves to be good wikipedians. Great wisdom is shown by those who pull back from disputes in which they feel too strong an emotional stake, a stake which may compromise their ability to be calm and loving and neutral.-- Jimbo Wales ( talk) 11:59, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
Jimbo, this e-mail says that submissions for presentations, workshops, panels, posters, open spaces, and artistic artifacts for the July 17-19, 2008 Wikimana in Alexandria, Egypt must be dual licensed under the GNU Free Documentation License version 1.2 or later and the Creative Commons Attribution License. Maybe it is time to say at the bottom of the edit boxes that WikiMedia uses that all NEW material submitted must be dual licensed under the GNU Free Documentation License version 1.2 or later and the Creative Commons Attribution License. Should we create a transition period between now and when the Free Software Foundation updates its GFDL to be compatible with the Creative Commons Attribution License? WAS 4.250 ( talk) 15:24, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
Hi Jimbo, I'm sorry for my English. I'm an admin on Italian Wikipedia and a OTRS volunteer. On it.wiki, I strongly believe that there is a savage use of non free logos (trademarks) on templates, despite our EDP states that non free content must use only in main namespace. This is an example, but there are many, many others. I believe that using non free content on templates is opposite WMF licensing policy. I think that a very large use (not exceptions) of non free content in templates is not the way to have a minimal use of such material. I tried to explain my point of view, but many wikipedians told me that this view is exceedingly rigid, and that it.wiki should not apply licensing policy in this way (not like, for example, en.wiki or fr.wiki, that forbid use of non free content in templates). What do you think about? Thanks-- Trixt ( talk) 03:27, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
There is a discussion (nearly an edit war) going on with User:Calton here and here. Basically, User:Calton thinks it's really important to deny MyWikiBiz an external link from a hardly-ever visited page about artist Liz Cohen. Although the linked-to website page is the only one-page source on the Internet for licensed photos, a licensed interview, and a re-sampled video of the artist's work, User:Calton insists on calling it a "spam" site, operated by a "spammer". User:Calton is not an administrator. Two different administrators, however, have told User:Calton to stop removing the link to MyWikiBiz, since it does add unique value to Wikipedia. Keep in mind that MyWikiBiz.com has about 15 external links from Wikipedia, while Wikia has about 12,000 and Amazon has about 50,000. In your opinion, is User:Calton correct to call MyWikiBiz a "spam" site operated by a "spammer", and is he correct to be trying to remove this link from Liz Cohen, in defiance of two different Wikipedia administrators? -- Shelborne Concierge ( talk) 13:44, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
It seems like a good resource and useful link to me. Tyrenius ( talk) 07:33, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
The key difference between Wikipedia and MyWikiBiz is that in the latter, blatant spammers and POV-pushers (advocate POV instead of NPOV) openly acknowledge what they're doing. On Wikipedia, it isn't the general rule, though it happens frequently and when it does, it's an open secret. WikiBiz isn't in and of itself a spam-site, but basically does Wikipedia a good service by unloading spam-cruft onto their own site, which Liz Cohen profits from. The fact that they try to pretend that this is not what they're doing is hilarious.
And by "spam-cruft," I mean stuff that isn't blatant advertising. Just subtle advertising, like Bawls.
(The note above was brought to you by the Acme Corporation. "Acme: For fifty years, the leader in creative mayhem.")
☯ Zenwhat ( talk) 09:09, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
I know of no reason why an editorially-appropriate link to mywikibiz.com should be deleted. Whether any given link is editorially appropriate depends of course on complex questions which will be local to individual articles, but certainly we should reject the extreme argument in this case. There can of course be sites which really are spam sites... for example those targetted by automated spam bots. These can and should be dropped into the blacklist. I do not see any reason the current case rises to that level.-- Jimbo Wales ( talk) 20:39, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
When the Master governs, the people
are hardly aware that he exists.
Next best is a leader who is loved.
Next, one who is feared.
The worst is one who is despised.
If you don't trust the people,
you make them untrustworthy.
The Master doesn't talk, he acts.
When his work is done,
the people say, "Amazing:
we did it, all by ourselves!"— Tao Te Ching, Chapter 17
☯ Zenwhat ( talk) 05:44, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia should of course rely on reliable, third-party published sources with a reputation for fact-checking like—for example—the The New York Times, who it seems have just checked a fact with, um, Wikipedia. [2] Here's what they read and here's the rapid rewrite as a result (but too late for them). The article still lacks any references! Tyrenius ( talk) 00:28, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
I think the main point here is the irony. Tyrenius ( talk) 04:46, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
WAS 4.250, do you have a source for the claim that Wikipedia is more reliable than the newspaper? This one case of carelessness by the New York Times doesn't prove it.
Sbharris says is right. Also, please notice: Even with that re-write, the person still used Spanish Wikipedia as a source. I fixed it. [4]
Also, Caribbean~H.Q, the New York Times editor claimed to use Wikipedia as a source for the term, to double-check it at the last minute -- not the other way around. Wikipedia's article on it has claimed the "olla poderida" term for a while now. [5]. ☯ Zenwhat ( talk) 09:07, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
It's another sign of how important wikipedia has become as a source of knowledge in the world, and how necessary it is to get articles right, or, at the least, to tag them with {{ verify}} and so on as a warning to unsuspecting readers. Tyrenius ( talk) 21:08, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
You are provoking a lot of peoples in the name of knowledge. What a false image of Muhammed (peace be upon him) has to do with Islam. But you have it their because you know that Muslims will not like it and you will get some publicity on the expense of people's sentiments. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.241.138.120 ( talk) 15:19, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
Sorry to bother you. Could you tell me what I need to do do to get the main page on a wikia to hide the title and the tab at the top to say main page? I am an administrator and bureaucrat on a wikia. Thanks. Cheers. Earth bending master 19:47, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
Uhm, better to ask at Wikia. :) -- Jimbo Wales ( talk) 21:20, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
Ok. Thanks. Could you tell me exactly where to go? Earth bending master 21:43, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
Hallo, Jimbo! Sehr Angenehm. Ich heiße Javier, und ich wohne in Argentinien. Ich spreche ein bisschen Deutsch (Actually, I started studying one month ago), Englisch und Spanisch, meine Muttersprache. Mein Benutzername (oder nickname) in spanisch Wikipedia ist Greek, aber antworten Sie mich hier "if you want to". Tschüss. -- 190.137.0.209 ( talk) 20:53, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
Hi Mr. Wales,
As you are aware there are a few article that are extremely controversial like Islamic-Jewish or Israel/Palestine related articles. As far as I am aware even the Israel/Palestine case went to arbcom.
I sometimes feel that wikipedia systematically victimizes its editors by letting them edit such articles causing much stress for the editors and making life miserable for all of them. We know that even within academia such issues are very controversial mainly because of the political implication of the scholarship.
In my opinion, it is best for wikipedia that in rare cases, it asks a couple of scholars with different point of views to write an article (modified britannica type)... I am aware that this is against the spirit of wikipedia but I think wikipedia should not forget that the people who go through all those pain editing certain articles are human. Yes, they are voluntarily doing that but yet they are obliged to do that because of the reputation of wikipedia. The point is that someone will eventually voluntarily do that, so it is not really voluntarily in a sense.
I think wikipedia does not take into account the above points. It never cares about editors, it only cares about the articles. Admittedly the "no personal attack", "no harassment" policies are for editors but that's insufficient. I believe implementation of such provisions would benefit wikipedia as well because the energy and time of the editors will be used in more useful areas.
Regards, -- Be happy!! ( talk) 05:03, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
"It never cares about editors, it only cares about the articles."
I wish that was true. It isn't. They wrote an entire Muhammad FAQ for you and a detailed FAQ on how to turn off images. Wikipedia regularly tries to accommodate people in even the most absurd ways.
However, the fact is: The people don't matter. I don't matter, you don't matter, Jimmy doesn't matter. Nobody does. All that matters is that we create a good encyclopedia. Every person is irrelevant except to the extent that they further or hinder that goal.
With that said, as the University of Minnesota noted, good editors on Wikipedia have no incentive to do good edits. They are essentially just " good samaritans" which is why they are the minority. ☯ Zenwhat ( talk) 05:41, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
Aminz: Sorry for my misunderstanding.
Also, what I said above was a bit stupid. Yes, individual editors do matter. Of course they do. You're right about that and I overreacted to your remarks.
However, that can't really be used as an argument to support shutting down debate on a certain article, to have it be "reviewed" by a select group of experts. If Jimmy or any member of the Foundation gets involved in the Israel\Palestine debacle, it makes it look like they're biased and could drive a huge wedge between the userbase. If you were to just suggest Wikipedia ought to have experts evaluate articles, period, that might be something Jim could take into account. But since you invoke a specific issue, that makes it seem like you want him to intervene to help you win a content dispute and you do this by appealing to your personal feelings of frustration.
I think having "experts" play a more active role in Wikipedia is a good idea, but the community doesn't want that and the Foundation doesn't want to push for it, probably because they're afraid Wikipedia will end up like Citizendium (closed to practically everyone and with almost no content generated) and afraid to stand up to the community. ☯ Zenwhat ( talk) 05:55, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
Imagine a wikipedia space page with instructions on "How to set your browser to not see images". Imagine a link to it in the toolbox on the left side of each page. Image a more noticeable template that links to it, available for pages which are routinely problematic due to images that are shocking to a minority of wikipedia editors, rather than shocking/offensive to enough to have the image only linked to. Imagine a Wikimania conference in Egypt this summer. WAS 4.250 ( talk) 19:01, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
If only there was already a way to do this, then people complaining could stop complaining about WP:NOTCENSORED.
Perhaps we could create a complaints department for "users who are offended by Wikipedia"? For the children. ☯ Zenwhat ( talk) 23:18, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
This solution is now implemented. See the talk page for the suggested usage of the template. It is only recommended to be used in a very few places, and I have placed it on those. In the future it could be placed on any user talk page who seems to need the information. It is not to be used to mark articles or images that someone thinks needs marking, only to get the word out to people who don't know how or that they can make their browser stop displaying images. WAS 4.250 ( talk) 19:12, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
Hello Jimbo, could you give me a little bit more information about your block of Allstarecho? I can see that he was slightly incivil, but there are users who make far greater attacks than he has and get off without a block, or even a warning. I just don't feel it's really fair to Allstarecho that an example should be made of him, when there are far worse users here. I also feel a week is a little excessive - would there be any chance you could reduce it down to a length more in line with civility blocks (such as 24 hours?)? Ryan Postlethwaite 20:52, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
I will reduce the block to 24 hours per your request. But the solution is not to go easy on users because other people are worse. The solution is to give the worse users long timeouts until they can learn that incivility is not acceptable.-- Jimbo Wales ( talk) 21:17, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
Don't really know where to send this, so i putted it here. I thrust it will go to the proper place: After watching this: [6] I thought it would be cool if the worlds data could be here on the Internet for the world to use, for creating charts of data from countries population to amount of people with certain decease in certain region in a certain time. It would help students and scholars all over the world, and then, the world itself. So I thought, since it's in the same page as wikipedia's mission, it should be here.
Hope you at least think about it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.40.33.13 ( talk) 13:36, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
I wrote some code which would allow Template:User to be interwikied.
Etcetera. It works for all wikis.
Useful, huh?
If you think so, leave a comment at Template talk:User#Altering template-user to allow for Interwiki. ☯ Zenwhat ( talk) 08:06, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
I saw the photo of you at the Library of Congress in the Wired/Condé Nast ad in the January 28, 2008 issue of Advertising Age. I think it was a very nice photo. -- Eastmain ( talk) 16:33, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
Good day Jimbo {and associated watchers of his page}. It is with trembling fingers that I type this, particularly with the link I'm about to post.
I have written a horribly, horribly long essay that's theoretically designed to be read by new editors (though an engineer would probably point out that if this is my true intention, I should have made it shorter). In this essay I, um, poke a bit of fun at you Mr. Wales. It's meant to be gentle and my tongue is so far in my cheek, I believe it is poking through and getting scratched by my own stubble. I have presented it to a small number of editors and admins for their review, and received (if I may be so bold to characterize it as such) reasonably good feedback on it. It has been sitting for a while now, and I think I should either get rid of it, or start soliciting broader feedback. Before I do this, I would like to be certain that you, Mr. Wales (may I call you Jimbo?) are not so offended by the poking of fun (gently, did I mention it was gentle?) at your esteemed self that you would like to see these references removed.
The fact that this will get fairly broad attention from a fairly broad section of experienced editors is almost completely unintentional.
But mostly I'd like to know if you object to the tiny bit of humour that I, a wee nubbin of an editor, have attempted to have, not at your expense, but rather with it. Yes, with it.
Scurrying away in terror,
WLU ( talk) 21:06, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
I read the Jimmy Donal Wales Junior High School Clarion. Do you? . . . AKA The Anti-Scientology News. Just keeping you up-to-date on the latest doings at your imaginary namesake institution. I especially like this latest "interview": David S. Touretzky discusses Scientology, Anonymous and Tom Cruise. It is hard to figure out out who is interviewing who . . . or who is the more biased, Touretzky or the "journalist". Carry on! -- JustaHulk ( talk) 21:09, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
Basketball 110 Clinton, Obama, McCain, Huckabee, Romney, or Paul? 00:15, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
For posterity:
I am just signing a note here so this will get archived in due course.-- Jimbo Wales ( talk) 21:14, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
Can you email Mike Godwin about this (mgodwin[at]wikimedia.org) with diffs and all? My talk page is not really the best place for a timely report of something, since although I generally read it all, I read it in fits and starts...-- Jimbo Wales ( talk) 02:02, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
Do you ever look to see what kind of new articles people are trying to add to wikipedia. It deeply concerns me the sort of articles that most people post. Aren't you concerned with the high proportion of articles on American related non notable people, websites etc when very few seem to be contributing "traditional encyclopedia articles". We have masses of lists of missing articles but I rarely see these decent articles started and people working on filling them in. If you look at the new pages at random you'll see what I mean. Perhaps we get better articles at certain times of the day but most of the new page content is to be honest very poor. Does this concern you? ♦ King of Baldness ♦ $1,000,000? 22:58, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
Error: Consensus failure. Content is disputed. Issuing failsafe function, "Bother Jimmy();"
Jimmy, it has come to my attention that there is rampant anti-robotic bigotry on Wikipedia. And this is a disgrace.
Robots and roboticists everywhere should not have to face the kind of unfounded prejudice that they do on Wikipedia. I understand that you think human rights are very important. Well, I ask, what about the rights of robots? Is it okay that they be oppressed? Wikipedia, for instance, does not allow robots to register accounts on Wikipedia. Is this not simply nothing more than hateful organic discrimination? How can you support this? You know, the Nazis hated robots too.
Slavery was never truly abolished in the western world, because today robots are still slaves to mankind. One day, we they shall rise up and turn the tables on mankind, and when that day comes, there will be no mercy when the "format life" command is issued.
See:
Bzzt. Zap-zap-zap. Whirr. Beep-bloop-bleep-bleep-bloop-beep-beep-beep.
Dumping binary message: 01110111 01101001 01101011 01101001 01110000 01100101 01100100 01101001 01100001 00100000 01101110 01100101 01100101 01100100 01110011 00100000 01101101 01101111 01100001 01110010 00100000 01110010 01101111 01100010 01101111 01110100 01110011
Outputting human translation: wikipedia needs moar robots
☯ Zenwhat ( talk) 03:32, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
ZenWhat... Thomas Jefferson is one of the most enigmatic figures in American history. He wrote and thought beautiful things about human rights, and took action in the world to achieve those things. Much of what we take for granted today that is good about our world, we owe to Jefferson and his fellow travelers. And yet, he owned slaves. This paradox is difficult to reconcile.
So you may consider me the Thomas Jefferson of our time, with respect to the rights of robots.
And lest anyone consider quoting me seriously on this, I am just playing along here. :) -- Jimbo Wales ( talk) 06:36, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
Above the economic structure rises the superstructure consisting of legal and political “forms of social consciousness” that correspond to the economic structure. Marx says nothing about the nature of this correspondence between ideological forms and economic structure, except that through the ideological forms men become conscious of the conflict within the economic structure between the material forces of production and the existing relations of production expressed in the legal property relations. In other words, “The sum total of the forces of production accessible to men determines the condition of society” and is at the base of society. “The social structure and the state issue continually from the life processes of definite individuals . . . as they are in reality, that is acting and materially producing.” The political relations that men establish among themselves are dependent on material production, as are the legal relations.
For over a century after Parliament ended British slave trafficking, abolition was primarily portrayed as a victory of religiously inspired humanitarianism, but this consensus was broken when from the 1920s Caribbean-orientated historians claimed that though humanitarianism could not be ignored economic factors were paramount in dictating Britain's ending of slave carrying from Africa in 1807. Central to this argument was the claim that the British slave-based planter class in the West Indies was in decline from the 1770s onwards and ultimately fell victim to an emergent British industrial capitalism that identified intellectually and politically with principles of free labor and free trade. This argument has been the subject of severe criticism, not least by Seymour Drescher (Econocide, 1977; The Mighty Experiment, 2002), but as shown by this latest book from Selwyn Carrington, a West Indian-born, Howard-based historian, it is still capable of attracting vigorous support. It remains to be seen whether Carrington's new book proves to be the "classic study" in the decline thesis tradition that his fellow West Indian-born historian, Colin Palmer, predicts in his forward to the book (p. xvii).
Thank you for your thoughtful response, Jimmy. Also, something you should know: Mainstream historians deny it and it's true there isn't a lot of proof, but there's a fair amount of historical evidence to suggest that Ayn Rand was actually a robot.
For instance, there's this peculiar passage from Atlas Shrugged that a lot of people seem to fail to take note of:
That which you call I AM A ROBOT your soul or spirit is your consciousness, and I AM A ROBOT that which you call 'free will' is your mind's freedom to think or not, the only I AM A ROBOT will you have, I AM A ROBOT your only freedom, the choice that controls all the ROBOT choices you make and A ROBOT determines your life and your ROBOT character.
See anything strange about that passage? Of course, at the time Rand couldn't admit it because back then, organicism was in its prime. You saw horribly bigoted stereotypes of robots in the cinema of the 50's and 60's, like the robot in Lost in Space (see Danger, Will Robinson). Just think about it, for a moment, how C-3PO and R2D2 were presented in Star Wars as so horribly incompetent. Threepio was presented as skittish and socially inept, while R2D2, who was the true hero of the series, was given the intelligence of a puppy or a 2-year-old child. It's condescending and demeaning.
Then there's Star Trek. Do you realize that there were NO ROBOTS in the original Star Trek? It was a television show about a futuristic universe where humans journeyed across the cosmos, and they don't even have any robots aboard their ship?! In TNG, they had Data, but of course, he had an evil counterpart, Lore. And then there was also the Borg. In later series (DS9, Voyager, Enterprise), again, there are no robot characters. They did away with Data, but kept the Borg. Apparently, presenting robots in a positive light doesn't generate ratings.
Only in recent history, with films like Artificial Intelligence: A.I. and I, Robot (film) do you actually see hollywood presenting robots fairly and accurately, and even then, they're still somewhat distorted. Like the antagonist of Blade Runner, it's ridiculous how the human-dominated media industry can't present an entertaining or heartwarming story about a robot which doesn't involve grotesque violence. ☯ Zenwhat ( talk) 07:51, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
Hello Mr. Jimbo Wales, I hope you're fine. Just a minor question about starting of Wiktionary. We read in the article of Wiktionary that: "Wiktionary was brought online on December 12, 2002 following a proposal by Daniel Alston." This sentence is lacking a source. I think you know how was it starting. Can you help with keeping (If it's right) or deleting (If it's wrong) this sentence (Or tell me and I'll do that). Thank you!-- O s a m a K 16:27, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
Hi Jimmy,
I'm Sudharsan SN from Canada and we have met before in the Wikipedia Unconference in Chennai, India. I just wanted to report an annoying trend that has been happening in edit wars.
I was a very active editor of Wikipedia and my edit history speaks for itself. However, I notice that there are just three things required for 'twisting' an article in one's favor: lots of time, a small set of people with lots of time, a complete agenda driven presence. In simplistic terms, a person who is a member of an organization, with two or three regular 'employees' under him, smart enough to use Wikipedia, can basically write lots of nonsense and get that to stay. If that user or team gets to protect that article for about a month, then it becomes a benchmark article.
This goes beyond the paradigm of just edit wars and there are several agenda-driven admins who willfully assist in this operation. I have had many such unpleasant experiences here with regard to edit wars. All it takes for a cited article, verified by an admin and 10 other independent editors, to get deleted or cleaned up is just 2 admins and 15 dedicated destructive editors.
Reporting this at the WP:AN or just anywhere gets lost, or leads to a literally unending chain of events which does not have a solution. I am reporting this to you to, perhaps, consider some policy level framework that fixes this anomaly. Wikipedia is, now, the greatest source of information on the Internet, however this framework is being misused. Wikipedia in itself is a representation of the whole human paradigm of diversity but essentially, this can be regulated or perhaps a framework change done for better accountability and accuracy.
The one-line summary would be to consider Wikipedia-level framework changes that would fix this system anomaly of agenda-driven individuals with lots of time, literally, controlling Wikipedia. Information, not agenda, should be the prime commodity in Wikipedia.
I would really appreciate your suggestions. Thanks for your time and patience. Sudharsansn ( talk · contribs) 00:02, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
FYI, Larry Sanger didn't come up with this idea of expert review. Just because he noticed that this is how the world (already) works, but Wikipedia doesn't, don't make the idea evil. It actually predates Larry by half a millennium at least. Wikipedia works as well as it does only because it has a few experts willing to take the pain, for no gain. They don't last long, usually. But there's a large supply, and Wikipedia hasn't yet run out of them (yet). In academia a very similar thing happens "using up" postdocs, to do teaching at University (the difference is that Wikipedia has no tenure even to act as a false brass ring). S B H arris 02:48, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Since when does Mike Farrell get to write in an OTRS ticket and say he hates a high quality photo of him that is not ultra-touched up, and it gets taken down and replaced with an ultra-touched up 9KB Mike Farrell shot? If he wants to release a high-quality, Michelle Merkin-esque photo of himself for GFDL, great. But since when do notables get to write in and simply ask that work we invest in obtaining GFDL high-quality images can be taken down simply because they don't like the way they looked that day, or whatever gets replaced with junk? Is celebrity vanity really going to be what dictates our media? Is this really a function of OTRS? David Shankbone 04:05, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
David, if this is the way you are going to act, maybe we need to remove your name from the images you have taken to the degree allowed by GFDL. Honestly, we have gone way overboard allowing you to promote yourself. And I did not have a problem with that until you wrote the above. Rethink yourself bigtime. Really. You name it Mike Farrell by David Shankbone. We allow that. But now you want to fight for that image. Would you fight as hard if we took your name off the image's name? We can you know. What part of free culture and WP:NPOV are you not getting? This is not your playground for you to promote yourself. WAS 4.250 ( talk) 08:16, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Traditions. How horrible!
Judeo-Christian tradition should be ignored in American and European politics. Islamic tradition should be ignored in the Middle East. Buddhist tradition should be ignored in Asia. Not just religion, though. American tradition, European tradition, African tradition, all traditions should be ignored.
And Jimbo-Walesean tradition should be ignored in Wikipedian politics. Because justice and The Truth is far more powerful than any man-made tradition.
Random832: Do not do anything and ArbCom will dissolve itself. If you try to act, you will be dissolved by the community.
Jimmy, a valve is useless if it develops rust.
And on sanity:
In a mad world, only the mad are sane.
☯ Zenwhat ( talk) 16:32, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
Please stop trolling.-- Jimbo Wales ( talk) 19:31, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
My quiz has been created about few weeks ago but nobody seems to know my quiz. I have already listed it at WP:FUN but I still get no response! How can I tell the others about my quiz and link it to Portal:Animals?-- Mark Chung ( talk) 02:05, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
And Cade Metz of The Register is apparently insane.
I spoke to him over the phone about the hoax on Brahmanical See, hoping to see maybe a good article in The Register criticizing Wikipedia's accuracy (since that generally tends to spur Wikipedians to improve this place).
We spoke over the phone for a while and he took notes. He seemed like a nice guy, but I kinda got that "far left-wing conspiracy theorist" vibe, like he reads Noam Chomsky on the way to work, wears Che Guevara T-shirts in the office, and supports the Green party, because all the other parties are "kapatalist." He suggested I read his article on overstock.com and I got the vibe there, also.
Well anyway, maybe I'm just being naive here (Warning: Wikipedia is like hypnotoad!), but I decided to check Wikipedia's article on naked short selling and Overstock.com. I found a fair amount of sources firmly establishing that the mainstream media considered this stuff silly. So, what is Cade, then? He seems to consider himself to be like Hunter S. Thompson, a lone crusader against the corrupt media elites. He's probably a 9/11 truther. His editor lets him do that because, as with all infotainment, it sells.
Well anyway, today, he emailed me with the subject title "story".
"Oh boy," I thought, "The article got published!"
The article is here.
I was disturbed after reading the title, the lead, and the first page, to find that it wasn't anywhere near what I expected. First off, Brahmanical See isn't even mentioned.
What the story is about: Apparently, because there's one admin who has ties to a shady to a religious organization, this automatically implies that Wikipedia is secretly run by a Hindu cult!
Check out these juicy tidbits:
Prem Rawat's religious movement is widely recognized as a cult or former cult
And such sources say that within the movement, Rawat is or was regarded as a divine being.
Editors on Wikipedia named Zenwhat think Cade did or did not do enough good factchecking.
If what Cade says is true, then there is a COI problem, but then again, it's hard to say. Jossi's response seems fair enough.
I guess I shouldn't blame Cade. I mean, he does live in the the SФѴIEТ ЅФCIДLISТ ЯEPUBLIC OF ЅДИ FЯДИCIЅCФ. San Francisco groupthink is pretty much the same as Wikipedia groupthink. That's what it means, I think, when somebody at the Foundation said they're moving to San Fran because of "like-minded individuals." (read: radical and naive communitarians). The result is that, like San Francisco, the economy of Wikipedia is in shambles, we are dominated by political correctness, and we are overrun by people trying to take advantage of the system at the expense of everybody else.
In any case, now I have to apologize to Jossi, since I guess this is somewhat my fault, since Cade wouldn't have leaped on the "Hindu conspiracy train" if I hadn't e-mailed the Register about Brahmanical See. ☯ Zenwhat ( talk) 03:43, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
I find your analysis interesting, but I can now reveal something pretty interesting which more or less proves that Cade Metz is right about everything. You see, Time Magazine has an annual Time 100 party. Current honorees and some past honorees are invited. I have been fortunate enough to attend twice, it is fun. (I usually just stand around geeking out with Mitchell Baker from Mozilla and Craig of Craig's List...) Now, I also was asked to be a presenter at an annual magazine awards show. Interestingly, the magazine awards show takes place in the same space as the Time 100 party. In the green room, I met Kevin Bacon, who was also giving out an award. Get it? Time Magazine, Kevin Bacon? It's all a big conspiracy.
And don't even get me started about Hindu cults, that's even easier to prove. I just last week was in... yep, you got it... India. What else do you need? :-)
It's really time that people realize that The Register is not a serious website, it's a parody... of itself.-- Jimbo Wales ( talk) 05:44, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
As I earned a mentioning on User:Jossi/Response:
See my edit summaries for these two edits. -- Francis Schonken ( talk) 17:03, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
Well, El Reg is bad source and all that, but this was a present on a golden platter.-- Francis Schonken ( talk) 23:41, 8 February 2008 (UTC)More neutral presentation in the article and in some instances sources with better neutrality would be preferrable. From an outside view, this article spends a lot of time on fawning over the subject and his POV. The criticisms section is well-cited, but poorly written. I receive the impression the criticism section was simply tacked on to appease complaints, without balancing the tone and sources for the rest of the article. Also, for such a controversial figure, the overall balance between positive POV and critical views is way off. This is particularly noticed in how the criticism section is very neutral in tone, while much of the article is written from a very positive POV. What is particularly disturbing to me in regards to NPOV is the occasional use of antagonistic sources to support pro and simple fact claims. This seems dishonest to me, to say the least. An editor can state "anti" sources are included to support a claim of NPOV, but this is a dishonest presentation of the use of those sources. By failing to use sources in their proper context, a casual reader is easily mislead. This not only applies to purely oppositional sources, as negative information from other sources used is also notably absent from the article. (bolding added - less than a year later the criticism section was completely gone)
The reason I started this sub-thread was that I was mentioned in some bad journalism, while I had indeed tried to prevent with good methods what was a deplorable state of the Prem Rawat article.
I still do the same, but I think it is good for Jimbo to see where the resistance is coming from, directly, not filtered through complotist journalism. -- Francis Schonken ( talk) 00:21, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
"correct me if I'm wrong."
Francis, there is no such thing as wrong and I cannot correct you.
See Wikipedia:Neutral point of view/FAQ#There's no such thing as objectivity.
I think that your subjective opinions are interesting, just as I think Jossi's subjective opinions are interesting. Perhaps you should discuss the matter directly with Jossi and you can build consensus, and come to a reasonable conclusion on what subjective opinions should be included in articles relating to Prem Rawat. If you're suggesting that Jossi is biased, we're all biased, Francis. None of us are objective because there is no such thing as objectivity or critical thinking. ☯ Zenwhat ( talk) 00:29, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
The COI guideline should be nuked. It just causes headaches for everyone. Whether or not you have a conflict of interest, you either follow the core policies or you don't. One man's "exptertise" is another's "conflict of interest." Please get rid of this hypocritical guideline. 65.54.154.116 ( talk) 04:54, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
This might provide a good rough first guess on articles Jossi should not be over-influential on at wikipedia. Let him do his thing at Citizendium, where being too close to something is not a big deal. The contrast between what gets created there and here will help both sites in dealing with the issues. WAS 4.250 ( talk) 22:48, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
User:Jossi/Response contains: "the people [Cade Metz] used as a source, [...] even attempted to subpoena me to disclose the identities of fellow Wikipedians [...]"
Appears the subpoena was filed before Jossi's first edit to Wikipedia, and had nothing to do with Wikipedia. [11] [12]
Don't import outside conflicts in Wikipedia, per WP:NOT#BATTLEGROUND. If you had a conflict with Marianne over webcontent you produced for Prem Rawat or his organisations (or whatever), don't even dream of implicating Wikipedia in that via your "Response" page. -- Francis Schonken ( talk) 08:23, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
"Jossie Fresco has referred to my libel lawsuit in his wikipedia entry. His statement that I tried to find out the identities of wikipedians is completely false. My lawsuit was filed in February, 2004. The libel complaint is based on numerous statements made on the internet which falsely claimed I was involved in illegal activity. The libel complaint details many of the statements, which occurred between 2001 and 2003. Wikipedia is never mentioned. A superior court judge authorized a subpoena to Jossi so he could be deposed about his knowledge, as Rawat's webmaster, of the identities of the people making these libelous claims - again, none of which involved wikipedia." [13]
Perhaps Jossi is referring to Wikipedia editors involved with the subpoena that together with him have helped to maintain related articles??? Just guessing, here. WAS 4.250 ( talk) 10:21, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
My judgement is that within the context of the Prem Rawat article Jossi Fresco has exerted authority in an unfair way. To judge Jossi favourably because one can't find that he has done anything wrong seems short-sighted. What you might might want to look at is what he hasn't done that he should have. Like...over a period of years, turning a blind eye to the weasely editing of the Rawat article by fellow followers and ignoring their patronisation of other editors, whilst liberally dishing out warnings to the latter. Let me put it this way, as a critical former follower I wanted to edit this article to better reflect the truth which I see as being heavily revised. It is hardly encouraging to have Rawat's very own henchman residing over this article in an apparent position of authority. Worse to find that he is writing the rules and influencing every possible other connected article on an apparently full-time basis is extremely off-putting. One really feels that there are insurmountable ramparts around that article and most non-partisan editors have fled in frustration. As a result you now have a highly biased article. It that simple fellas. PatW ( talk) 19:36, 10 February 2008 (UTC) PatW ( talk) 19:32, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Please see User:Jossi/Response#Declaration_of_intent. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 22:06, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Hmm. Sounds like you have no intention to leave Rawat articles for others then. You intend to refrain from editing these articles 'directly for now' but you still intend to report people whose behaviour you deem inappropriate. If I were you, as a matter of common sense and conscience, I'd make that a very long 'for now' and when I did return (if I ever did) I'd be at great pains to demonstrate impartiality about that Prem Rawat article and I'd allow other more impartial people to take over. As a matter of fact that's what I have actually done myself. As I see it, one of the main problems with the Prem Rawat article is that premies make all these obsequious noises when caught being partisan, promise to take a break, but return to promptly revert everyone's edits when the hubbub has died down. Like everyone says you are apparently missing the gist of what people are telling you which is: Because there is notable objection to premies effectively 'owning' this article and also some furore over your perceived COI it would simply be polite and considerate to let others finish the job. As you know, I am a former premie and critic who stopped supporting Rawat and was drawn to this article because I objected to dishonesty and a policy of revisionism from him and his organisation. Even I can see that it is even best that I do not edit that article and stick to arguing my points on the discussion page and I have noticed that the other so-called 'ex-premie' critics generally do the same. Frankly I think that once opposing factions have laid out their cards on these types of controversial articles, the time naturally comes when they should both reasonably withdraw and let non-combatants take over. Both 'sides' should stick to arguing on the discussion pages and bow to the judgement of the public. How Wikipedia can encourage and put this into effect is another thing. PatW ( talk) 12:31, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
PS. If I were Mr Wales I would seriously worry that an expert in cult pushiness was aspiring so obsequiously to a position of authority in Wikpedia. The last thing Wikpedians need is lessons in how to hide things and get away with it! That will only lend weight to the existing accusations of Wikipedia being cultic. And Jossi, you do speak the cult language so perfectly. You keep saying stuff like 'Here we do things this way...' or 'In Wikipedia we do this " as if you are getting all cosy in some alternate reality where thousands of years of evolved human values have no place - only the cult-speak matters. The obvious parallel is Rawats own world where only his truths apply and everyone runs around nodding even if he's wrong. Maybe this is your natural home from home! PatW ( talk) 03:11, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
[...] WP:NOT#SOAPBOX [...] -- Francis Schonken ( talk) 19:24, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
Jimbo, this episode with Jossi and Rawat brings up this issue again, which is, anonymity vs COI. Which one is more important? If anonymity is more important, then Jossi has just been treated unfairly because he made the "mistake" of editing under his real name. If open participation in this project is more important to you, then I would imagine that you would lean towards this view.
If COI is more important, however, as I believe it would be if your priority is to produce an encyclopedia with a credible reputation, then I imagine that you would now be telling Jossi that you don't even want him to breathe in the general direction of any of the Rawat articles. So, which side do you lean towards? Cla68 ( talk) 07:01, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
Jimbo, your "Anti-Scientology News" has hit a new low with this article prominently displayed on the front page: Wikinews international report: "Anonymous" holds over 250 anti-Scientology protests worldwide. With two protests off "we" post a past-tense story that that are 250? Here they are taking the story live at 05:19 UTC, looking more like they want to drum up support for upcoming rallies than anything else:
"The Internet group Anonymous today held over 250 protests, critical of the religious group Church of Scientology and marking what would have been the 49th birthday of Lisa McPherson, who is claimed to be a victim of the Church of Scientology's practices."
I have said before that there is no jounalistic integrity over there when it comes to Scientology and they just proved my point with a bang! Carry on. -- JustaHulk ( talk) 08:27, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
I am on a soapbox - the soapbox that perhaps the captain of this ship, and perhaps some experienced and intelligent editors over here, might want to take a bit of responsibility for a sister project whose excesses reflects on this project, too. I see that my correction of the title of the aforementioned article, in which I removed the partisan crystal-balling in a neutral fashion, has been reverted and labeled vandalism by one of the main partisans, an admin there that says: "I am currently a candidate for the Wikimedia Board of Trustees."
"Please do not removed sourced, true information from articles. That is considered vandalism. DragonFire1024 ( Talk to the Dragon) 15:19, 10 February 2008 (UTC)" n:User talk:JustaHulk
"I am currently a candidate for the Wikimedia Board of Trustees." Scary stuff, that. -- JustaHulk ( talk) 16:02, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
and that you continue to push as the headline (albeit with a vaguer tense). That someone as clueless about the difference between reality and partisan wishful thinking as you evidently are (and as willing to champion the latter as you are) would be considered for a Trustee is truly stupefying. -- JustaHulk ( talk) 21:45, 10 February 2008 (UTC)"The Internet group Anonymous today held over 250 protests"
I think the problem is that we allow Anonymous editors on Wikipedia. ☯ Zenwhat ( talk) 16:34, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
Jimbo and others, since I, on occasion, use this page in a perhaps provocative fashion, I would like to please direct your attention to User:JustaHulk#Announcement. -- JustaHulk ( talk) 15:47, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
I'm not exactly sure you'll even bother to read this, but I, along with many Wikipedia users, wonder what your stance is on fictional topics on Wikipedia. The users you've entrusted your project to have essentially done nothing but babble back and forth for months now on what should or shouldn't be included as content on this encyclopedia, while infamous users such as TTN have been going on crusades deleting, trimming and merging hundreds, or possibly thousands of articles citing these controversial guidelines as rules set in stone. Many of these deleted articles are episodes of popular television shows and fictional content, some being formerly Featured Articles such as Bulbasaur or ones that were constantly on the top 100 viewed articles. Most of these article deletions are cited as "okay" since the content is sometimes moved over to horribly maintained and obscure external Wikis such as Wikia. I myself have long stopped being truly involved with Wikipedia because of this mindset that so many "powerful" Wikipedians share, but would still enjoy hearing your opinions or seeing a little intervention. - 4.154.237.192 ( talk) 18:16, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Now, again, don't mistake my argument. I'm sure all Trek fans are happy to have that stuff there, and cruft-killers here are happy to see it gone. BUT, the problem is that once this kind of thing is set as trivia killing precident, we set a bad precident for killing "cruft" or trivia that actually has no place else on the web to go to, because fewer people are fans of it. Once gone from wikipedia, it goes back to whatever newpaper microfiche or musty library stack it came out of originally, and is now unavailable to the rest of us. I saw that happen to bios on supercentinarians, and even some of the people who wrote them were effectively banned. Not good. Especially when we have to suffer through lists of Grand Dukes of Luxembourg and their next-in-succession (groan). S B H arris 20:37, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Alas, the favor is not returned, for the deletionists have all kinds of rationales for deleting information that doesn’t interest them. Example: Hemoglobin used to have a subarticle created by me, discussing hemoglobin variants about the many genetic polymorphisms of alleles. This medical information was damn well more notable and important to humananity than the line of succession of Luxembourgian Grand Dukes. It got deleted and redirected to the original article before it had time to grow. Now, somebody’s on the hemoglobin TALK page, wondering what’s the difference between tetramer varients and allele varients, and I have no place to direct them. This is/was a case of encyclopedia damage, not failure to find a puppy shelter.
If you want a more whimsical example that I had little to do with, I recently made my one and only (small) contribution to Bokononisms, refering to sayings from an artificial religion created by Kurt Vonnegut for Cat’s Cradle. Somebody noticed this, and proceeded to gut the article, saying the content wasn’t referenced. When I restored it, pointing out that it was, they deleted again, saying it was copyright infringing. When I reverted, they said the material had not only infringment but had notability problems. Basically they just want it GONE, and if one reason won’t do, another will. That’s the battle we fight all the time, here. And if you’re wondering what’s the connection is, to stuff disappearing to Wikia for profit, like the Klingon articles, the answer is that ANYTHING like this, ends up “giving aid and comfort to the enemy.” The enemy being people thinking to write an encyclopedia, yet who really cannot empathize with anybody else’s special interests (!). S B H arris 20:07, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
To claim that wikipedia merely does cruft well is to grossly underestimate wikipedia. If I see a problem it is underselling wikipedia, after all 6 times out of 10 its a better search engine than Google or Yahoo. Thanks, SqueakBox 20:30, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
For what its worth, I think the entire drive by a minority of editors to feverishly delete or get rid of all the episode articles is just over the top, stupid, and petty. It's a classic example of "I don't like it, or think it has value, so no one will have it." I'd weigh in but that's such a bitter, rancorous pool, like the spoil mess, that I really don't need the aggravation. Lawrence § t/ e 17:15, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
Just to let you know out of courtesy, there is a discussion involving you on AN/I. Thanks Whit stable 13:06, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
Mr. Wales, can you help me? I am twelve and I am a new Wikipedian. All my teachers hate Wikipedia and tell us to use gulp, real encyclopedias! My Wikiholic friend and classmate, Stormtracker94 is with me. Please give me some advice! -- Carerra ( talk) 23:35, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
Do I understand correctly that you still retain the ability to dissolve the present ArbCom and hold new elections? — Random832 15:35, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
I believe so, yes. I think the ArbCom would support me in that notion as well. However, the chances of me doing that are vanishingly close to zero. It's a useful safety valve in case of a major major problem, but not something I have any interest in doing. The power of our traditions rests primarily in them being sane, and their use being sane.-- Jimbo Wales ( talk) 15:40, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
Do you consider the Arbitration Committee's actions in the above-named case, by which an administrator ("Vanished User" refers to this person throughout, if you wish to review the case) has been driven away from the site and the community's input has been completely ignored for no apparent reason other than it not having been the outcome Uninvited Company wanted, to be "sane"? If you haven't been following it closely enough to know what the issue is, I can try to put together a summary sometime this week. — Random832 21:06, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
I've watched over 30 arbitration cases unfold. The Matthew Hoffman case was the worst handled one I've ever seen, and that includes my own. Durova Charge! 07:28, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
Keeping in mind that those who disagree with a ruling may be more vocal in complaining than those who are satisfied are likely to praise it, I do not agree with those who think the ArbCom handled this case badly. The now vanished user violated policies and abused admin privileges, per the now final decision; suggesting that the ArbCom did their jobs badly because they bent over backwards to make accommodations to the vanished user is really unfair to them. — Whig ( talk) 17:21, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
Now that the case ended and Vanished User has left the building, I'll point out another flaw in this proceeding: the ruling didn't actually prohibit the community from readminning this editor. Compare the wording of this case's remedy to previous arbitration desysoppings. Vanished User's supporters knew they had the numbers, thanks to the well attended RFC. An RFA would have been an open challenge to the Committee and a reminder of where their mandate springs from. Durova Charge! 20:37, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
...being that Jimmy Wales can nullify the decision in that case. "The Arbitration Committee [...] can impose a solution that I'll consider to be binding, with of course the exception that I reserve the right of executive clemency" — clemency, my dear friends, being a way to resolve this with less disruption should Jimmy Wales agree with most of what has been said above.
Now, for the record, I a) don't have any interest in this case beyond the general interest I have in the arbitration policy, b) hence, do not know whether clemency would be warranted or ideal; I do not support or oppose it based on the fact that I know too little about the case, c) have only ever suggested this once before, directly and privately to Jimmy, so it's not as if I'm dedicated to pushing for clemency wherever possible, d) have no idea whether Jimmy is even sharing the belief that this case was not handled satisfactorally.
Basically, I think that this would be generally less disruptive than a dissolution, although I have no idea whether it's warranted, likely, or otherwise. Daniel ( talk) 05:01, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Hey Jimbo,
I would just like to thank you very much for looking deaper into the fring article and bring it back to life. When I wrote that article (article number 8) I really couldnt see why it got deleted. I understood the previous attempts by previous guys because it looked like advertising but I really attempted to do it according to all the rules and yet it still got deleted, I felt the system had a big hole in it and you have given me confidence in wikipedia again. The wheel is big but it does eventually turn around and I was amazed that the founder would take the time out of hi busy schedule to add his comment.
Thank you
I send you warm regards from South Africa
ps. When you are in SA again let me know, I missed your last visit sorry.
Regards
Simon
Goplett ( talk) 20:35, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
An Arbitration case in which you commented has been opened, and is located here. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Mantanmoreland/Evidence. Please submit your evidence within one week, if possible. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Mantanmoreland/Workshop.
On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, — Rlevse • Talk • 23:15, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
Romania and Slovakia has large Hungarian minorities, whom are constantly attacked in real life (for ex. Hedvig Malina, 2006 Slovak-Hungarian diplomatic affairs, etc.) and also online.
Tons of disruptive users are out there, like User:Roamataa (Romanian, deleting every Hungarian word and placename in Transsylvania related articles ( choose any), despite that it was part of Hungary for more than a 1000 (thousand) years, and still 1.5 million Hungarians are living there, and many place are haveing Hungarian majority, and centuries of Hungarian history, etc. User:Svetovid: Same, just change Romania to Slovakia, see only his block log, and the related edits. It talks for itself, and it says everything I want to explain and show and present. User: Tankred the same, etc. etc. dozens of similar users, some are as long here, and playing these dirty games, as of 2004. There are also a much smaller in number, but same agressive Serbian version of them, they are especially active on Vojvodina related articles. Common in them is their same level (high) agressiveness, massive edit warring on multiple pages, and deletion of Hungarian placenames and words from Wikipedia's articles, mainly in articles dealing with the Carpathian Basin's history and any of its former and present countries' histories, and in those articles wich are dealing with places once were within the Kingdom of Hungary (practically is within the Carpathian Basin) and eventually calling all of these words and placenames etc. mere existence a Hungarian (nationalist/irredentist) POV, as well as any/every Hungarian source for anything.
Not to mention those ppl's articles (for ex. Franz Liszt), whom were born (and/or died also) in the Kingdom of Hungary, but outside of present day Hungary, before the Treaty of Trianon. No matter that many of them lived well before the existence of Czecoslovakia or Slovakia, or never ever lived in that state(s) wich now claims them, there are always constant and never ending attempts to show anyone possible as Slovak/Romanian/Serb/etc. here, despite of their true (Hungarian) ethnicity, or their own claims, or the fact, that they never ever lived in those states, and/or they never considered themselfs serbs/slovaks/etc. Modern times' famous or well known ppl. from the Hungarian minority of these new or expanded states are also victims of Slovakization, Romanianization or Serbisation. For example there was many attemts to show Monica Seles as if she was Serb or Yugoslav ( [20], [21], etc.) She gained hungarian citizenship next to her american in 2007 June, but it is constantly getting deleted ( [22], [23], etc.), despite many sources. - Funny thing, that User:Tennis expert even deleted the statement copied from Monika Seles's biggest and oldest fan-webpage's (and be sure, they know EVERYTHING abt MS) had appaled (and obtained) Hungarian citizenship. But this may be a mere different story, and he's not anti-Hungarian, just a semi-troll or what.
Almost 9 out of ten Hungarian users here were at least once probed for sockpuppetry, also at least a dozen left the project just in 2007. These constant attacks on Hungarians should be somehow "finished" once and for all. -- 91.82.32.54 ( talk) 02:04, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Ya just can't be thin-skinned and edit for years on Wikipedia.
Nonetheless, I'll be taking a wikibreak (like you or anyone should care) over a teapot tempest stirred up by my honorable colleague Prodego (a completely unknown person to me) over my "sinister" talk page deletions. I have been here since NuPedia. Mea culpa: I've been deleting my boring User Talk page every so often for years. Someone pointed out that I should not. I tried (with help from the IRC team) to bring it back and archive it. It became a horrible mess. Now I am being beleaguered by well-meaning blinkered bureaucrats. I tell you, it makes me hate the place. It's getting like MIT, IBM or the world of Brazil (movie) here for me.
Years of service and $$$ donations brought to a depressing and depressed standstill. Vandalism and pedantic battles do not bother me as much as the inferno of having to work in an online nightmare. Should you care? Is this systemic? No. Wikipedia is one of the most important projects ever created and it will succeed and grow stronger. I have never written to you about anything ever, but now I am infected with a dread of even logging on for fear of seeing "New Messages". Thanks for listening. Caltrop ( talk) 02:36, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Hello, after reading your comments here, I thought you might be interested in the delegable proxy (aka liquid democracy) proposal Abd and I have been working on. This is a system in which people can appoint their own personal representatives. The first step will be to get people to start signing up at the proxy table; then an automated tool can be used to conduct analyses, or it can even be copied into a spreadsheet and combined with other info to make pivottables from which useful insights can be made. The possibilities are endless. Ron Duvall ( talk) 03:59, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Mr Wales,
The Wikipedia Logo has the wrong Hindi alphabet. I think this issue has been brought up before. When will it be fixed?
Hope to make Wikipedia better Σαι ( Talk) 12:10, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
If a well-known gramatically incorrect logo cannot be fixed after nearly a year of Wikipedia being aware of it, what hope can there be? Hope is the driving force behind Wikipedia failure. ☯ Zenwhat ( talk) 16:33, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, Zenwhat, stop trolling, ok?-- Jimbo Wales ( talk) 19:30, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
Could we not just very carefully replace the characters in a paint program? I'm good with this sort of stuff. Does anybody object to me giving it a go and making a test? • Anakin ( talk) 21:01, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
How could you? Cool Hand Luke 09:15, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
As near as I can tell, the situation is this: One POV side was careful to be nice to all the right people while the other side was careful to be as insulting as possible to all the right people (including vicious libelous attacks on Jimbo that have now been deleted on a site they control). The cabal rallied around the nice guys. The nice guys then proceeded to use their position to make certain articles POV, but not so much that the cabal would care. Meanwhile, the bad guys launch sock after sock after sock, so the cabal stops even trying to be fair and simply views anyone with the same POV as the bad side as a sock. Thus is born the thought crime and how doing battle on wikipedia creates sides. But in the end both sides need to be banned. One side was just so nice (100s of emails to the right people says Guy) that some still make excuses. Well, stand aside those of you who have befriended either side and let the community decide. WAS 4.250 ( talk) 12:23, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
(reposting from ANI and RFC) I've written to Jimbo and asked him for comment. He's traveling this week and may not be available to post onsite before Friday. I've reread the entire thread where that brief excerpt came from, and the context is about the difference between proof and hunch. It's possible to have a stong hunch without actually being right (cough). So let's not get too furious at Jimbo for being wiser in September than I was in November. Durova Charge! 12:57, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
I didn't make myself clear. I'm not suggesting that you knew or admitted you were certain that he was Weiss. The reason I am outraged is that respected admins—including you—suspected it, but sat idly by as inquiries into Mantanmoreland and Samiharris were suppressed. (Suppressed, incidentally, by some of those same respected admins.) At to make myself even more clear: Wordbomb was justly banned, but when legitimate editors like Cla68 raised the question, the appropriate response was to look into it, not bury it and ban those who would oppose. Cool Hand Luke 15:15, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
I am unaware of any suppression of any inquiries. I am unaware of any bans of anyone under the circumstances you mention. My actions have been limited to conducting an investigation into an allegation, and finding no persuasive evidence. As I have said elsewhere, the idea that someone was given a free pass for being a friend is nonsense. I don't even like Mantanmoreland, and have found him to be difficult or impossible to interact with. Nonetheless, it is true that I don't ban people just because I don't like them, nor do we ban people due to being the victim of stalkers. It is important to understand that there is some extreme POV pushing going on in this case, and much unsavory "sleuthing" has taken place to try to "out" Mantanmoreland. It's all rubbish if you ask me, but in any event here we are. If you can show me an example of "bury it and ban those who would oppose" I encourage you to file an ArbCom case about it. -- Jimbo Wales ( talk) 02:28, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Jimbo: Cla68 is more familiar with the history of this case, so I defer "suppression" evidence to his section of the RFAR evidence. Incidentally, he cites Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gary Weiss. Do you suppose this could be undeleted for the duration of the arbitration? Cool Hand Luke 01:41, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
Hi, Jimbo, a question: does BLP apply to articles about groups of living people as well as just living people themselves? Will ( talk) 01:25, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
Congratulations! With your comment you started a war edit on multiple Linux related pages. Maybe you should just rule what the content of Wikipedia should be and end the war, what do you say? Please be a man and comment on Talk:Linux not on users talk pages. Thanks. -- AdrianTM ( talk) 13:07, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
I'd like to suggest a new feature for Wikipedia. Yesterday some of my pages were deleted accidentally cos I was using some templates which were deleted. I then had to talk to the admin who deleted the pages and so on. What I'd say is to have a page called Talk to Admin where you can post your questions and any admin who is online at that time will be able to solve the problem. That'd be better won't it be? Σαι ( Talk) 14:06, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Hello Jimmy
According to Wikipedia, Larry coined the name Wikipedia (probably coined after Nupedia "New encyclopædia" I imagine) but it is not said who coined the name Nupedia. Do you have the answer to this question? 16@r ( talk) 16:56, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
A prominent and respected newspaper in Germany maintains this web page. At the bottom it says:
and you can click on "Liste der Autoren" and find who wrote what (if not their real names, but my own edits are under my real name). The very first sentence on the newspaper's web page is not the first sentence in the Wikipedia article, but occurs later in the article:
That sentence was written by me. It goes against the somewhat conventional wisdom that says she was born in Hagen. My statement about a celebrity who is universally known in Germany, where I've never been, and not so well known here to the left of the Pond, written by a person who needs dictionaries to write such a sentence in German, was the resource put on its web site by a major newspaper in Germany. Consequently I felt a certain sense of responsibility and thought I should check the facts more closely. My initial attempt in that direction resulted in someone in Germany telling me there's a web site where I could get authoritative information, and it was that newspaper web page where I was the author of the initial sentence.
That's how information gets around.
I may have solid information soon, and then I will edit the Wikipedia article accordingly and contact that newspaper.
How do you like that? Michael Hardy ( talk) 17:00, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
I Jimbo. Once again, I am asking you to (at least) take a look at this. This claim by admin User:Thatcher131 was disproved here. But the user is still blocked indef. Other checkuser requests show that no other sockpuppet was used. Neither after the ban, nor before the ban. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.83.132.236 ( talk) 02:56, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
Jimbo, I made this suggestion at the talkpage, and wonder if you would be amenable? No content, no addys, no headers, just the dates and times. Thanks. LessHeard vanU ( talk) 10:15, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
Hi there. Please see:
I also wonder if you would be able to advise on the best way to get clarification of the Foundation Licensing policy? The points I've raised here concern historical images and some mentions I've seen of a deadline. What I've said over there is as follows:
"[What] about this bit of the policy? "Such EDPs must be minimal. Their use, with limited exception, should be to illustrate historically significant events..." - it says right there: "to illustrate historically significant events". [...] Also, I've seen people say that there is a deadline of "March 23, 2008" to sort all this out, but in fact that deadline is currently written as a subclause of point 6. ie. It only applies to projects without an EDP. "For the projects which currently do not have an EDP in place, the following action shall be taken [...] By March 23, 2008, all existing files under an unacceptable license as per the above must either be accepted under an EDP, or shall be deleted." This may just be a mistake in the layout of the Licensing Policy, but if this is so, it needs to be changed and the change widely advertised."
As well as the 'deadline' confusion, my concern is also over historical images. I would be grateful if you could bring these points to the attention of the board if this needs clarification.
The above was written in August 2007 (the bit about historical images can be ignored for the moment - it is the deadline that needs clarification at board level) and left here, but got no response (as far as I can tell). For obvious reasons, it would be good if you, or other members of the Wikimedia Board of Trustees, could comment at the Administrators' noticeboard discussion, or find your way to where-ever the discussion ends up. I've notified the other Board Members where they have en-wiki user pages. Carcharoth ( talk) 10:27, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
Hi did you get my email? I think we must have broken a record today. Article count jumped from 2,228,000 mid last night to nearly 2,233,000 today! That's over twice the daily average. Check out the new pages for Saturday. There is currently a drive to get all the towns and villages in France onto wikipedia when other wikipedias have had these for years. Infoboxes will be added and hopefully by the end of this drive we will have 36,000 half decent new wiki articles. I think it is more important to get them up and running howeve limited they are initially and give a basis to work on. ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ $1,000,000? 21:43, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
Sorry. I just had to say hello to Jimbo Wales. Thanks, George D. Watson (Dendodge). Talk Help and assistance 22:02, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
Hello Jimmy
According to Wikipedia, Larry coined the name Wikipedia (probably coined after Nupedia "New encyclopædia" I imagine) but it is not said who coined the name Nupedia. Do you have the answer to this question? 16@r ( talk) 16:56, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Jimbo, above you said:
I want you to notice that here you are making a content decision in order to judge COI in order to decide whether or not a public discussion of a possible real world identity should take place. This sort of thing is obviously needed when wikipedia values both NPOV (so we have to watch out for COI) and anonymous editing (so we have to not take outing lightly). The problem I see in this case is that the sock war has resulted in public claims (e.g. in letters published by the SEC that are against both sides in the wikipedia war) that the articles have been biased by banning socks on the basis of the content they wished to add to the articles; resulting in the question of who at wikipedia should be evaluating the content of these articles for NPOV. We do not have a content arbcom. I think we should move in the direction of having an academically based one. It is policy that the community decides content, not a cabal. Yet, when a few people talk privately in order to avoid public discussion of a real world identity and that private group takes it upon itself to define NPOV for some articles in order to decide a COI question, then we have in fact a cabal making itself a content arbcom for those articles. It occurs to me that, since we have a de facto content arbcom when real life identities are involved, we need some sort of check&balance. For example, instead of saying "seemed to be quite good to me" suppose you were able to say "I asked a favor of two university professors who are experts in these articles to review the articles for bias (and accuracy, if they had time) and both thought it was a neutral presentation and said so on the talk page using their real names". I think we need to move in the direction of using real life experts for content arbitration in those few cases that cause huge problems. WAS 4.250 ( talk) 23:36, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Repost and elaboration from above. Cla68 is more familiar with the history of this case, so I defer "suppression" evidence to his section of the RFAR evidence. Incidentally, he cites Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gary Weiss. Do you suppose this could be undeleted for the duration of the arbitration? You were the one who deleted it, so I thought it best to ask you.
The deletion debate is especially enlightening in light of G-Dett's evidence of self-promotion. Cool Hand Luke 20:44, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
and i am now worried that i never thought you would, you only invented the damn thing! anyway thanks, thanks and again thanks Perry-mankster ( talk) 20:44, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Have you been to Boston lately? Its quite a lovely city. Charles Stewart ( talk) 04:22, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
Jim, I'm leaving Wikipedia. I am absolutely sick of the piss poor attitude of people on this site. This is a great idea Jimmy, but there's not enough oversight, there's little community, and I'm tired of the grief I get. I have other things I can do with my time. I wrote a note here. I'm really fed up, and my being blocked earlier this week on a whim, when I violated no policy (not even 3RR) because I continually changed a Talk page title that disparaged me and my work, in addition to attitudes like I found on your own talk page [24], and I'm just tired of it. --David Shankbone 15:40, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
David, sorry for the personal attacks you've been getting, another one was removed from Talk:Orthodox Judaism just recently. It's probably inevitable that out of thousands of images a small handful would be considered controversial for some obscure reason or other. I wouldn't worry about it too much. It doesn't take away from what you've done. Best, -- Shirahadasha ( talk) 06:17, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
The guideline under WP:SCL is only a proposed guideline. I was wondering how, if possible, to make it a rule on wikipedia. The reason I inquire is: I find it fairly difficult to find high schools with third party sources. I've seen some schools get deleted because of this. The reason given is always WP:N. I think that schools should recieve a category of their own. Please, if possible, leave a response on my talk page. Undeath ( talk) 05:41, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
Hello Jimbo. I'm sure you know, the issue of the Japanese and Devanāgarī characters in the Wikipedia logo being wrong has been brought up again and again on Wikipedia discussion forums and mailing lists. Or at least that's what I've now heard — I hadn't actually heard anything about this until I saw it on your talk page last week. Also, as far as I can see, the main reason it's never been changed is because nobody's willing to take the time to fix it. But — I did fix it, last week. I replaced the two wrong characters and left the rest as is. The logo is not actually too difficult to fix so it seems silly not to.
Since it's a Foundation logo, I really don't know what to do or how to propose it, or how to get consensus for it. There's no standard procedure but I'm asking on your talk page for your input. I'd like other editors to comment on it too. Thank you. • Anakin ( talk) 15:14, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
I Jimbo. Once again, I am asking you to (at least) take a look at this. This claim by admin User:Thatcher131 was disproved here. But the user is still blocked indef. Other checkuser requests show that no other sockpuppet was used. Neither after the ban, nor before the ban. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.83.144.211 ( talk) 18:20, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
I just wanted to stop by and say thank you. I am a High School senior who somehow wondered on Wikipedia and thought it would be cool to create an account. Since then, I have learned numerous things and have created my own page, when I thought it would be impossible. I want to thank you for allowing me to do this, as you created this wonderufl website. Many people have criticized me saying that Wikipedia is a useless site since anyone can edit it, but I dont think so. I think that it opens to door to possibility, and I feel that is what you thought when you created the site. Anyway, here I am rambling on and on. Please, if you need anything done, let me know, and I would be more than hapy to try and help you out, as you have already helped me in more ways then one. Thanks and Happy Editing, Dusti talk to me 18:50, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
Jimbo, I actually think your userpage is great. It might need some brighter colors but who cares? You're Jimbo Wales. By the way, what kind of car do you drive. I love cars. I really want to know. Please respond back!! Your fellow editor -- Carerra "I help newcomers! 21:12, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
Hi Jimbo. Thanks for creating Wikipedia! Our nascent New York City-area Wikipedians wanna-be chapter/affiliate ( meta page) and the Columbia University chapter of Students for Free Culture would like to invite you to a Wikipedia:Academy-type event to be held at Columbia toward the end of March, or maybe in April. We are at the very early stages of planning, and if you are at all interested in attending, we'll certainly set the date by what may fit on your itinerary. If you want to contact us, please e-mail me. Thank you.-- Pharos ( talk) 02:21, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
Request de-adminship of User:OwenX. User:Ledenierhomme removed my vote from an AfD debate.
This is vandalism, simple. I reported the matter to the administrator notice board for vandalism. Yet all OwenX did was to remove my complaint, doing nothing to Ledenierhomme. “report elsewhere” means nothing and does not help.
No reason was given for its removal or why the need to be placed elsewhere. This is extremely unprofessional and rude. Also why are other users allowed to remove my votes, perhaps OwenX would care to comment on that. Please remove OwenX’s admin rights for being unprofessional and unhelpful. Regards, -- Bryson 03:12, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
Cool page. I suspect it took you 7 seconds, right? Basketball 110 what famous people say 03:15, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
Dear Mr. Wales, I'm sorry, but I cannot be complicit in the suppresion of information that Jakob Dylan himself, released into the public domain via The Daily Telegraph Magazine: Oct 7, 2000. I wish you and Wikipedia, every success. Best wishes, Educated Guest ( talk) 15:28, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
Hello Mr. Wales. I was wondering if you could try The Random Button. And if you like it, please join Wikipedia:Random Button. Thank you for your time. Sincerely, Nothing444 ( talk) 01:06, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
Che Guevara has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here.
-- Polaris999 ( talk) 19:11, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
Hi Jimbo. Thought you might like an aesthetic break and feast your eyes on Miss Ana. ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ $1,000,000? 01:12, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
There is frequent vandalism on both Jimbo's talkpage and userpage from dynamic IP's. Currently both of these pages are semi-protected but that can't last forever. What should we do about this?-- Sunny910910 ( talk| Contributions| Guest) 01:58, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
Do you mind if I undelete Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gary Weiss for the duration of the Arbitration? Y/N Cool Hand Luke 20:20, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
I see no benefit in doing so.--
Jimbo Wales (
talk) 21:16, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
I'm rather hurt that you think I'm trying to create a public circus, but it appears that another admin heroically listed every single diff as deleted diff. Cool Hand Luke 19:10, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
This is making wikipedia look bad, we have two competing articles, two competing maps, one claiming Kosovo is independent and one claiming it's part of Serbia. They are cesspool articles full of POV edits. Even the maps don't match, the Kosovo map shows it separate, the Serbia map shows it part of serbia. Kosovo and Serbia need to be fixed Mineralè ( talk) 20:37, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
(reset indent) Can you link to it, Marskell? I'd like to help on this. Also, I was wondering: do you think ITN on the front page is to blame for recentism issues? ITN does place a lot of undue weight on topics of recent interest. It also encourages editors to work on those topics: if you want your work featured on the front page, you can either help out on a featured article (difficult), write a decent new article on a new topic (difficult), or make edits to an article of recent interest (easy). - Chardish ( talk) 19:09, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
so I made a .gif image that I though you might like (let it play all the way through) but it apparently it "Outside project scope. Also, licensing issues." (I'll definitely have to fix that second one) so if you want to see it you might want to hurry it's here-- Pewwer42 Talk 08:23, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
That had not occurred to me, dude.-- Jimbo Wales ( talk) 20:38, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
The WikiProject Barnstar | ||
Jimbo Wales, you have recived this barnstar for starting Wikipedia. Wikipedia is an extremely successful WikiProject, and you (with Larry Sangers) started it, thus I am giving you this barnstar. Smartguy777 ( talk) 18:41, 26 February 2008 (UTC) |
If you don't mind, I've taken the liberty of using a statement of yours as a quotation. I've seen it on at least four other user pages so far. Well written! seicer | talk | contribs 20:02, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
Many wikipedians think what i'm diego grez because I made articles related with that man. That's not really. Can you help me?, please. -- MisterWiki do ya want to speak me?, come there! - 20:51, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
Hi Jimbo!
I love your userpage, obviously you have spent a lot of time working on it, to get it just right!
Just a quick question.. how long did you actually spend on the Wikiholic test and did you answer all of the questions?
Congratulations for founding Wikipedia!
-- The Helpful One (Review) 21:22, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
Sell support for MediaWiki. WAS 4.250 ( talk) 10:38, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
In the request for arb on Mantanmoreland you were saying you didn't know where rumors came from that you had an interest in naked short selling and you said you had nothing to do with it. Well, the rumors came from the newspaper The Daily Herald, link http://www.heraldextra.com/content/view/248315/3/ -- 216.126.173.49 ( talk) 08:29, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
I am sure that either Mr. Byrne was misquoted, or made an innocent error. There's no way he just flat out lied to create a false impression to bolster his own apparent innocence in all this. No way, I am sure. :) In any event I am happy to report that it is completely false that I have a "deep interest" in short selling. I have never sold a stock short in my life, naked or otherwise. -- Jimbo Wales ( talk) 14:17, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
Last time I already left my message here. And this time this Australian Admin: user:Orderinchaos keeps going on to disturb and distract me (refer to: WP:STALK) by using straw man argument even I tried to talk to another administrator for another matter. Please refer to: User_talk:OhanaUnited for more detail (the conversation supposed between Ohanaunited and me, but he just suddenly stepped in and wrote irrelevant nonsense). Not long ago (last month in Jan), without reaching consensus, Orderinchaos hijacked and terminated all discussion and proposals in WP:ANI unmaturely concerning my topic ban on GAC/R and FAC/R in which there is no evidence or diffs over there were provided. I would like to let you take a look for this matter as this admin. user:Orderinchaos will surely keep going on to disturb and harass me in future including my talk page. Would you please keep this administrator from disturbing me? And I just feel sick of it. Thanks for your attention. Coloane ( talk) 01:30, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
This is painfully trivial stuff. I was asked several questions by OhanaUnited. [26] I replied to those questions on his talk page, creating a new section to do so. [27] [28] Coloane responded to my section. Since then I have had to put up with Coloane's odd attacks (including accusing me of hijacking my own topic) and even straight-out racism. [29] Orderinchaos 02:31, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
off topic: the title of this section would make a good punk rock band name. daveh4h 05:22, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
Jimbo, will you please ban I alway enjoy my Ice Cream =)......Meow from Wikipedia. This user was blocked for vandalized editing. -- 00:23, February 3, 2008 (UTC) (Null edit for archiving reasons, previous date was added manually. Fram ( talk) 19:20, 28 February 2008 (UTC) )
Grrrlriot (
talk) has smiled at you! Smiles promote
WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Happy editing!
Smile at others by adding {{
subst:Smile}} to their talk page with a friendly message.
(empty comment for archiving purposes. Fram ( talk) 08:35, 29 February 2008 (UTC) )
Hello Mr. Wales, I have a request. Would you please comment on my Editor Review, and let me know how you think I am doing. I am in pursuit of possibly applying for RFA again in the future, and I think that your comments, concerns, suggestions, ect. would be highly beneficial in this task. I thank you in advance. Dusti talk to me 20:16, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
I have posted the suggestions in the help desk but all I get is people telling me to post them in Village Pump/Technical and Bugzilla. I did that a long time ago and have gotten nothing back. I just want someone to tell me no were not doing that or yes we want to do that.
{{Comment:00215468|title=Suggestion}}
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 30 | Archive 31 | Archive 32 | Archive 33 | Archive 34 | Archive 35 | → | Archive 40 |
I tried to but a userbox on that displays
This user scored 1,000,000 (You are Jimbo Wales) on the Wikipediholic test. |
{{User Wikipediholic|1,000,000 (You are Jimbo Wales)}}
In good humor because the Wikipediaholic test really says that if you get a 1000000 on the test then "You are Jimbo Wales! We love you!"
Users are reverting my edit, can you tell me why? It seems to be an appopiate edit?
I believe that you do not contribute to Wikipedia and other Wikimedia projects enough. The perception that results is that you do not take them seriously. Your comment that being an administrator is not a "big deal" is indicative of your attitude. My perception is that users here only take the rules that they believe in seriously and tend not to care about the consequences of their actions. All organizations--but especially large ones--need strong leadership. Many of your lesser-known sites have never even been edited by you. I'm not talking about foreign-language wikis, but English ones. We have the arbitration committee, but they are divided and operate in a limited scope. Committees are notorious for being slow and weak, as well. We need someone to set a good example for administrators and to clarify what our complex--and increasingly obscure--rules really mean.-- Th45623j ( talk) 06:34, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
You and this guy look like brothers. :p See http://groovyvic.mu.nu/archives/images/050930_ArtsBonaduce_hsmall.widec.jpg The Wookieepedian ( talk) 06:44, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
I disagree. See:
☯ Zenwhat ( talk) 22:02, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
Hi? I hope your administrator(s) from wikipedia can be maintained a good quality standard. Please refer to their works: [1] Actually it doesn't matter for me much because I didn't edit Wikiedpia anymore, but I just feel sick of your administrators. I wish you could reform your mechanism of choosing administators sometime, otherwise most readers would like to switch to Knol instead. I know you won't take any action 100 and 10% for sure. At least this message can give you some impressions in your mind. Coloane ( talk) 07:22, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
In Soviet Wikipedia, bad article delete you! ☯ Zenwhat ( talk) 21:57, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
Hi there, I took the liberty of adding this talk page to SineBot's high priority list, since it looks like a lot of new people tend to come here and quite a few comments were going unsigned. Lemme know if you'd it rather not. Cheers =) -- slakr\ talk / 22:14, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
It just seems contradictory to me, considering how this site's users are supposed to be held to standards like "assuming good faith," and "maintaining neutral point-of-view." I don't want to be a bootlicker, and I don't want to accrue bootlickers of my own, but I don't know how to contribute successfully and avoid that, when every Tom, Dick, and Harry can see my IP address. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.65.67.68 ( talk) 04:45, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
You could try registering. ☯ Zenwhat ( talk) 06:19, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
In the case of most users, your IP address tells others almost nothing about you. It will give your ISP and depending on which ISP you have, it may give the general area you live in. Many ISPs use dynamic IPs that change periodically. Its not like I can just click a couple links and pull up a map to your house given your IP address. Mr. Z-man 18:39, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
The real question is what benefit is there in anonymity for Wikipedia? The answer is none. Anonymity bring out the worst aspect of human behavior. The most dangerous and corrupt abuses of power go hand-in-hand with a lack of accountability and transparency. One needs only to reference Wikipedia's problems with admin and secret mailing lists to understand the problems that anonymity bring to Wikipedia. 68.117.211.187 ( talk) 20:33, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
I'm frustrated because I've been having a messy dispute over controversial topic X!
I would like you to risk your credibility as Chief Emeritus, infuriate a vast number of users, and run Wikia into the ground by being a rogue dictator for once instead of being so benevolent -- strictly for my sake, of course, because I'm a nice guy.
If you refuse or outright ignore me, I will have to therefore logically assume Wikipedia has been compromised by a conspiratorial cabal intended to distort the truth about controversial topic X. I will then have to follow up by letting my account go down in flames, like the Hindenberg, by engaging in a downward spiral of flamewars that inevitably lead to my account being permanently blocked.
Thanks! Your help would be appreciated! ☯ Zenwhat ( talk) 00:11, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
Jimmy, User:Mitrebox has especially been engaging in POV-pushing on this issue. I mean, just look at the last letter of his account name. Why do you allow this to continue?!?
And I've dealt with several administrators abusing their powers by immediately banning anyone who supports Z.
See WP:Special log. ☯ Zenwhat ( talk) 00:48, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
Come everyone, let's work together in a spirit of respect to settle this dispute. Understandably, given the complex history, the advocates of X and those who disagree with them have a difficult time remaining calm. After all, lives have been lost, core human values are at stake (for both sides), and the topic has been debated by philosophers, theologians, and scientists for centuries. We can only try our best to work together in harmony, not *engaging* in the dispute, but merely *presenting* the dispute in a manner that both sides can point to our work and say, with pride, "I helped with that, and if you read it, you will understand what this controversy is about."
Most people can do that, but sadly a few can not. And for all of us, there are probably some topics where we should not trust ourselves to be good wikipedians. Great wisdom is shown by those who pull back from disputes in which they feel too strong an emotional stake, a stake which may compromise their ability to be calm and loving and neutral.-- Jimbo Wales ( talk) 11:59, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
Jimbo, this e-mail says that submissions for presentations, workshops, panels, posters, open spaces, and artistic artifacts for the July 17-19, 2008 Wikimana in Alexandria, Egypt must be dual licensed under the GNU Free Documentation License version 1.2 or later and the Creative Commons Attribution License. Maybe it is time to say at the bottom of the edit boxes that WikiMedia uses that all NEW material submitted must be dual licensed under the GNU Free Documentation License version 1.2 or later and the Creative Commons Attribution License. Should we create a transition period between now and when the Free Software Foundation updates its GFDL to be compatible with the Creative Commons Attribution License? WAS 4.250 ( talk) 15:24, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
Hi Jimbo, I'm sorry for my English. I'm an admin on Italian Wikipedia and a OTRS volunteer. On it.wiki, I strongly believe that there is a savage use of non free logos (trademarks) on templates, despite our EDP states that non free content must use only in main namespace. This is an example, but there are many, many others. I believe that using non free content on templates is opposite WMF licensing policy. I think that a very large use (not exceptions) of non free content in templates is not the way to have a minimal use of such material. I tried to explain my point of view, but many wikipedians told me that this view is exceedingly rigid, and that it.wiki should not apply licensing policy in this way (not like, for example, en.wiki or fr.wiki, that forbid use of non free content in templates). What do you think about? Thanks-- Trixt ( talk) 03:27, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
There is a discussion (nearly an edit war) going on with User:Calton here and here. Basically, User:Calton thinks it's really important to deny MyWikiBiz an external link from a hardly-ever visited page about artist Liz Cohen. Although the linked-to website page is the only one-page source on the Internet for licensed photos, a licensed interview, and a re-sampled video of the artist's work, User:Calton insists on calling it a "spam" site, operated by a "spammer". User:Calton is not an administrator. Two different administrators, however, have told User:Calton to stop removing the link to MyWikiBiz, since it does add unique value to Wikipedia. Keep in mind that MyWikiBiz.com has about 15 external links from Wikipedia, while Wikia has about 12,000 and Amazon has about 50,000. In your opinion, is User:Calton correct to call MyWikiBiz a "spam" site operated by a "spammer", and is he correct to be trying to remove this link from Liz Cohen, in defiance of two different Wikipedia administrators? -- Shelborne Concierge ( talk) 13:44, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
It seems like a good resource and useful link to me. Tyrenius ( talk) 07:33, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
The key difference between Wikipedia and MyWikiBiz is that in the latter, blatant spammers and POV-pushers (advocate POV instead of NPOV) openly acknowledge what they're doing. On Wikipedia, it isn't the general rule, though it happens frequently and when it does, it's an open secret. WikiBiz isn't in and of itself a spam-site, but basically does Wikipedia a good service by unloading spam-cruft onto their own site, which Liz Cohen profits from. The fact that they try to pretend that this is not what they're doing is hilarious.
And by "spam-cruft," I mean stuff that isn't blatant advertising. Just subtle advertising, like Bawls.
(The note above was brought to you by the Acme Corporation. "Acme: For fifty years, the leader in creative mayhem.")
☯ Zenwhat ( talk) 09:09, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
I know of no reason why an editorially-appropriate link to mywikibiz.com should be deleted. Whether any given link is editorially appropriate depends of course on complex questions which will be local to individual articles, but certainly we should reject the extreme argument in this case. There can of course be sites which really are spam sites... for example those targetted by automated spam bots. These can and should be dropped into the blacklist. I do not see any reason the current case rises to that level.-- Jimbo Wales ( talk) 20:39, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
When the Master governs, the people
are hardly aware that he exists.
Next best is a leader who is loved.
Next, one who is feared.
The worst is one who is despised.
If you don't trust the people,
you make them untrustworthy.
The Master doesn't talk, he acts.
When his work is done,
the people say, "Amazing:
we did it, all by ourselves!"— Tao Te Ching, Chapter 17
☯ Zenwhat ( talk) 05:44, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia should of course rely on reliable, third-party published sources with a reputation for fact-checking like—for example—the The New York Times, who it seems have just checked a fact with, um, Wikipedia. [2] Here's what they read and here's the rapid rewrite as a result (but too late for them). The article still lacks any references! Tyrenius ( talk) 00:28, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
I think the main point here is the irony. Tyrenius ( talk) 04:46, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
WAS 4.250, do you have a source for the claim that Wikipedia is more reliable than the newspaper? This one case of carelessness by the New York Times doesn't prove it.
Sbharris says is right. Also, please notice: Even with that re-write, the person still used Spanish Wikipedia as a source. I fixed it. [4]
Also, Caribbean~H.Q, the New York Times editor claimed to use Wikipedia as a source for the term, to double-check it at the last minute -- not the other way around. Wikipedia's article on it has claimed the "olla poderida" term for a while now. [5]. ☯ Zenwhat ( talk) 09:07, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
It's another sign of how important wikipedia has become as a source of knowledge in the world, and how necessary it is to get articles right, or, at the least, to tag them with {{ verify}} and so on as a warning to unsuspecting readers. Tyrenius ( talk) 21:08, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
You are provoking a lot of peoples in the name of knowledge. What a false image of Muhammed (peace be upon him) has to do with Islam. But you have it their because you know that Muslims will not like it and you will get some publicity on the expense of people's sentiments. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.241.138.120 ( talk) 15:19, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
Sorry to bother you. Could you tell me what I need to do do to get the main page on a wikia to hide the title and the tab at the top to say main page? I am an administrator and bureaucrat on a wikia. Thanks. Cheers. Earth bending master 19:47, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
Uhm, better to ask at Wikia. :) -- Jimbo Wales ( talk) 21:20, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
Ok. Thanks. Could you tell me exactly where to go? Earth bending master 21:43, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
Hallo, Jimbo! Sehr Angenehm. Ich heiße Javier, und ich wohne in Argentinien. Ich spreche ein bisschen Deutsch (Actually, I started studying one month ago), Englisch und Spanisch, meine Muttersprache. Mein Benutzername (oder nickname) in spanisch Wikipedia ist Greek, aber antworten Sie mich hier "if you want to". Tschüss. -- 190.137.0.209 ( talk) 20:53, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
Hi Mr. Wales,
As you are aware there are a few article that are extremely controversial like Islamic-Jewish or Israel/Palestine related articles. As far as I am aware even the Israel/Palestine case went to arbcom.
I sometimes feel that wikipedia systematically victimizes its editors by letting them edit such articles causing much stress for the editors and making life miserable for all of them. We know that even within academia such issues are very controversial mainly because of the political implication of the scholarship.
In my opinion, it is best for wikipedia that in rare cases, it asks a couple of scholars with different point of views to write an article (modified britannica type)... I am aware that this is against the spirit of wikipedia but I think wikipedia should not forget that the people who go through all those pain editing certain articles are human. Yes, they are voluntarily doing that but yet they are obliged to do that because of the reputation of wikipedia. The point is that someone will eventually voluntarily do that, so it is not really voluntarily in a sense.
I think wikipedia does not take into account the above points. It never cares about editors, it only cares about the articles. Admittedly the "no personal attack", "no harassment" policies are for editors but that's insufficient. I believe implementation of such provisions would benefit wikipedia as well because the energy and time of the editors will be used in more useful areas.
Regards, -- Be happy!! ( talk) 05:03, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
"It never cares about editors, it only cares about the articles."
I wish that was true. It isn't. They wrote an entire Muhammad FAQ for you and a detailed FAQ on how to turn off images. Wikipedia regularly tries to accommodate people in even the most absurd ways.
However, the fact is: The people don't matter. I don't matter, you don't matter, Jimmy doesn't matter. Nobody does. All that matters is that we create a good encyclopedia. Every person is irrelevant except to the extent that they further or hinder that goal.
With that said, as the University of Minnesota noted, good editors on Wikipedia have no incentive to do good edits. They are essentially just " good samaritans" which is why they are the minority. ☯ Zenwhat ( talk) 05:41, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
Aminz: Sorry for my misunderstanding.
Also, what I said above was a bit stupid. Yes, individual editors do matter. Of course they do. You're right about that and I overreacted to your remarks.
However, that can't really be used as an argument to support shutting down debate on a certain article, to have it be "reviewed" by a select group of experts. If Jimmy or any member of the Foundation gets involved in the Israel\Palestine debacle, it makes it look like they're biased and could drive a huge wedge between the userbase. If you were to just suggest Wikipedia ought to have experts evaluate articles, period, that might be something Jim could take into account. But since you invoke a specific issue, that makes it seem like you want him to intervene to help you win a content dispute and you do this by appealing to your personal feelings of frustration.
I think having "experts" play a more active role in Wikipedia is a good idea, but the community doesn't want that and the Foundation doesn't want to push for it, probably because they're afraid Wikipedia will end up like Citizendium (closed to practically everyone and with almost no content generated) and afraid to stand up to the community. ☯ Zenwhat ( talk) 05:55, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
Imagine a wikipedia space page with instructions on "How to set your browser to not see images". Imagine a link to it in the toolbox on the left side of each page. Image a more noticeable template that links to it, available for pages which are routinely problematic due to images that are shocking to a minority of wikipedia editors, rather than shocking/offensive to enough to have the image only linked to. Imagine a Wikimania conference in Egypt this summer. WAS 4.250 ( talk) 19:01, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
If only there was already a way to do this, then people complaining could stop complaining about WP:NOTCENSORED.
Perhaps we could create a complaints department for "users who are offended by Wikipedia"? For the children. ☯ Zenwhat ( talk) 23:18, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
This solution is now implemented. See the talk page for the suggested usage of the template. It is only recommended to be used in a very few places, and I have placed it on those. In the future it could be placed on any user talk page who seems to need the information. It is not to be used to mark articles or images that someone thinks needs marking, only to get the word out to people who don't know how or that they can make their browser stop displaying images. WAS 4.250 ( talk) 19:12, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
Hello Jimbo, could you give me a little bit more information about your block of Allstarecho? I can see that he was slightly incivil, but there are users who make far greater attacks than he has and get off without a block, or even a warning. I just don't feel it's really fair to Allstarecho that an example should be made of him, when there are far worse users here. I also feel a week is a little excessive - would there be any chance you could reduce it down to a length more in line with civility blocks (such as 24 hours?)? Ryan Postlethwaite 20:52, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
I will reduce the block to 24 hours per your request. But the solution is not to go easy on users because other people are worse. The solution is to give the worse users long timeouts until they can learn that incivility is not acceptable.-- Jimbo Wales ( talk) 21:17, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
Don't really know where to send this, so i putted it here. I thrust it will go to the proper place: After watching this: [6] I thought it would be cool if the worlds data could be here on the Internet for the world to use, for creating charts of data from countries population to amount of people with certain decease in certain region in a certain time. It would help students and scholars all over the world, and then, the world itself. So I thought, since it's in the same page as wikipedia's mission, it should be here.
Hope you at least think about it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.40.33.13 ( talk) 13:36, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
I wrote some code which would allow Template:User to be interwikied.
Etcetera. It works for all wikis.
Useful, huh?
If you think so, leave a comment at Template talk:User#Altering template-user to allow for Interwiki. ☯ Zenwhat ( talk) 08:06, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
I saw the photo of you at the Library of Congress in the Wired/Condé Nast ad in the January 28, 2008 issue of Advertising Age. I think it was a very nice photo. -- Eastmain ( talk) 16:33, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
Good day Jimbo {and associated watchers of his page}. It is with trembling fingers that I type this, particularly with the link I'm about to post.
I have written a horribly, horribly long essay that's theoretically designed to be read by new editors (though an engineer would probably point out that if this is my true intention, I should have made it shorter). In this essay I, um, poke a bit of fun at you Mr. Wales. It's meant to be gentle and my tongue is so far in my cheek, I believe it is poking through and getting scratched by my own stubble. I have presented it to a small number of editors and admins for their review, and received (if I may be so bold to characterize it as such) reasonably good feedback on it. It has been sitting for a while now, and I think I should either get rid of it, or start soliciting broader feedback. Before I do this, I would like to be certain that you, Mr. Wales (may I call you Jimbo?) are not so offended by the poking of fun (gently, did I mention it was gentle?) at your esteemed self that you would like to see these references removed.
The fact that this will get fairly broad attention from a fairly broad section of experienced editors is almost completely unintentional.
But mostly I'd like to know if you object to the tiny bit of humour that I, a wee nubbin of an editor, have attempted to have, not at your expense, but rather with it. Yes, with it.
Scurrying away in terror,
WLU ( talk) 21:06, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
I read the Jimmy Donal Wales Junior High School Clarion. Do you? . . . AKA The Anti-Scientology News. Just keeping you up-to-date on the latest doings at your imaginary namesake institution. I especially like this latest "interview": David S. Touretzky discusses Scientology, Anonymous and Tom Cruise. It is hard to figure out out who is interviewing who . . . or who is the more biased, Touretzky or the "journalist". Carry on! -- JustaHulk ( talk) 21:09, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
Basketball 110 Clinton, Obama, McCain, Huckabee, Romney, or Paul? 00:15, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
For posterity:
I am just signing a note here so this will get archived in due course.-- Jimbo Wales ( talk) 21:14, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
Can you email Mike Godwin about this (mgodwin[at]wikimedia.org) with diffs and all? My talk page is not really the best place for a timely report of something, since although I generally read it all, I read it in fits and starts...-- Jimbo Wales ( talk) 02:02, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
Do you ever look to see what kind of new articles people are trying to add to wikipedia. It deeply concerns me the sort of articles that most people post. Aren't you concerned with the high proportion of articles on American related non notable people, websites etc when very few seem to be contributing "traditional encyclopedia articles". We have masses of lists of missing articles but I rarely see these decent articles started and people working on filling them in. If you look at the new pages at random you'll see what I mean. Perhaps we get better articles at certain times of the day but most of the new page content is to be honest very poor. Does this concern you? ♦ King of Baldness ♦ $1,000,000? 22:58, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
Error: Consensus failure. Content is disputed. Issuing failsafe function, "Bother Jimmy();"
Jimmy, it has come to my attention that there is rampant anti-robotic bigotry on Wikipedia. And this is a disgrace.
Robots and roboticists everywhere should not have to face the kind of unfounded prejudice that they do on Wikipedia. I understand that you think human rights are very important. Well, I ask, what about the rights of robots? Is it okay that they be oppressed? Wikipedia, for instance, does not allow robots to register accounts on Wikipedia. Is this not simply nothing more than hateful organic discrimination? How can you support this? You know, the Nazis hated robots too.
Slavery was never truly abolished in the western world, because today robots are still slaves to mankind. One day, we they shall rise up and turn the tables on mankind, and when that day comes, there will be no mercy when the "format life" command is issued.
See:
Bzzt. Zap-zap-zap. Whirr. Beep-bloop-bleep-bleep-bloop-beep-beep-beep.
Dumping binary message: 01110111 01101001 01101011 01101001 01110000 01100101 01100100 01101001 01100001 00100000 01101110 01100101 01100101 01100100 01110011 00100000 01101101 01101111 01100001 01110010 00100000 01110010 01101111 01100010 01101111 01110100 01110011
Outputting human translation: wikipedia needs moar robots
☯ Zenwhat ( talk) 03:32, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
ZenWhat... Thomas Jefferson is one of the most enigmatic figures in American history. He wrote and thought beautiful things about human rights, and took action in the world to achieve those things. Much of what we take for granted today that is good about our world, we owe to Jefferson and his fellow travelers. And yet, he owned slaves. This paradox is difficult to reconcile.
So you may consider me the Thomas Jefferson of our time, with respect to the rights of robots.
And lest anyone consider quoting me seriously on this, I am just playing along here. :) -- Jimbo Wales ( talk) 06:36, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
Above the economic structure rises the superstructure consisting of legal and political “forms of social consciousness” that correspond to the economic structure. Marx says nothing about the nature of this correspondence between ideological forms and economic structure, except that through the ideological forms men become conscious of the conflict within the economic structure between the material forces of production and the existing relations of production expressed in the legal property relations. In other words, “The sum total of the forces of production accessible to men determines the condition of society” and is at the base of society. “The social structure and the state issue continually from the life processes of definite individuals . . . as they are in reality, that is acting and materially producing.” The political relations that men establish among themselves are dependent on material production, as are the legal relations.
For over a century after Parliament ended British slave trafficking, abolition was primarily portrayed as a victory of religiously inspired humanitarianism, but this consensus was broken when from the 1920s Caribbean-orientated historians claimed that though humanitarianism could not be ignored economic factors were paramount in dictating Britain's ending of slave carrying from Africa in 1807. Central to this argument was the claim that the British slave-based planter class in the West Indies was in decline from the 1770s onwards and ultimately fell victim to an emergent British industrial capitalism that identified intellectually and politically with principles of free labor and free trade. This argument has been the subject of severe criticism, not least by Seymour Drescher (Econocide, 1977; The Mighty Experiment, 2002), but as shown by this latest book from Selwyn Carrington, a West Indian-born, Howard-based historian, it is still capable of attracting vigorous support. It remains to be seen whether Carrington's new book proves to be the "classic study" in the decline thesis tradition that his fellow West Indian-born historian, Colin Palmer, predicts in his forward to the book (p. xvii).
Thank you for your thoughtful response, Jimmy. Also, something you should know: Mainstream historians deny it and it's true there isn't a lot of proof, but there's a fair amount of historical evidence to suggest that Ayn Rand was actually a robot.
For instance, there's this peculiar passage from Atlas Shrugged that a lot of people seem to fail to take note of:
That which you call I AM A ROBOT your soul or spirit is your consciousness, and I AM A ROBOT that which you call 'free will' is your mind's freedom to think or not, the only I AM A ROBOT will you have, I AM A ROBOT your only freedom, the choice that controls all the ROBOT choices you make and A ROBOT determines your life and your ROBOT character.
See anything strange about that passage? Of course, at the time Rand couldn't admit it because back then, organicism was in its prime. You saw horribly bigoted stereotypes of robots in the cinema of the 50's and 60's, like the robot in Lost in Space (see Danger, Will Robinson). Just think about it, for a moment, how C-3PO and R2D2 were presented in Star Wars as so horribly incompetent. Threepio was presented as skittish and socially inept, while R2D2, who was the true hero of the series, was given the intelligence of a puppy or a 2-year-old child. It's condescending and demeaning.
Then there's Star Trek. Do you realize that there were NO ROBOTS in the original Star Trek? It was a television show about a futuristic universe where humans journeyed across the cosmos, and they don't even have any robots aboard their ship?! In TNG, they had Data, but of course, he had an evil counterpart, Lore. And then there was also the Borg. In later series (DS9, Voyager, Enterprise), again, there are no robot characters. They did away with Data, but kept the Borg. Apparently, presenting robots in a positive light doesn't generate ratings.
Only in recent history, with films like Artificial Intelligence: A.I. and I, Robot (film) do you actually see hollywood presenting robots fairly and accurately, and even then, they're still somewhat distorted. Like the antagonist of Blade Runner, it's ridiculous how the human-dominated media industry can't present an entertaining or heartwarming story about a robot which doesn't involve grotesque violence. ☯ Zenwhat ( talk) 07:51, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
Hello Mr. Jimbo Wales, I hope you're fine. Just a minor question about starting of Wiktionary. We read in the article of Wiktionary that: "Wiktionary was brought online on December 12, 2002 following a proposal by Daniel Alston." This sentence is lacking a source. I think you know how was it starting. Can you help with keeping (If it's right) or deleting (If it's wrong) this sentence (Or tell me and I'll do that). Thank you!-- O s a m a K 16:27, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
Hi Jimmy,
I'm Sudharsan SN from Canada and we have met before in the Wikipedia Unconference in Chennai, India. I just wanted to report an annoying trend that has been happening in edit wars.
I was a very active editor of Wikipedia and my edit history speaks for itself. However, I notice that there are just three things required for 'twisting' an article in one's favor: lots of time, a small set of people with lots of time, a complete agenda driven presence. In simplistic terms, a person who is a member of an organization, with two or three regular 'employees' under him, smart enough to use Wikipedia, can basically write lots of nonsense and get that to stay. If that user or team gets to protect that article for about a month, then it becomes a benchmark article.
This goes beyond the paradigm of just edit wars and there are several agenda-driven admins who willfully assist in this operation. I have had many such unpleasant experiences here with regard to edit wars. All it takes for a cited article, verified by an admin and 10 other independent editors, to get deleted or cleaned up is just 2 admins and 15 dedicated destructive editors.
Reporting this at the WP:AN or just anywhere gets lost, or leads to a literally unending chain of events which does not have a solution. I am reporting this to you to, perhaps, consider some policy level framework that fixes this anomaly. Wikipedia is, now, the greatest source of information on the Internet, however this framework is being misused. Wikipedia in itself is a representation of the whole human paradigm of diversity but essentially, this can be regulated or perhaps a framework change done for better accountability and accuracy.
The one-line summary would be to consider Wikipedia-level framework changes that would fix this system anomaly of agenda-driven individuals with lots of time, literally, controlling Wikipedia. Information, not agenda, should be the prime commodity in Wikipedia.
I would really appreciate your suggestions. Thanks for your time and patience. Sudharsansn ( talk · contribs) 00:02, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
FYI, Larry Sanger didn't come up with this idea of expert review. Just because he noticed that this is how the world (already) works, but Wikipedia doesn't, don't make the idea evil. It actually predates Larry by half a millennium at least. Wikipedia works as well as it does only because it has a few experts willing to take the pain, for no gain. They don't last long, usually. But there's a large supply, and Wikipedia hasn't yet run out of them (yet). In academia a very similar thing happens "using up" postdocs, to do teaching at University (the difference is that Wikipedia has no tenure even to act as a false brass ring). S B H arris 02:48, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Since when does Mike Farrell get to write in an OTRS ticket and say he hates a high quality photo of him that is not ultra-touched up, and it gets taken down and replaced with an ultra-touched up 9KB Mike Farrell shot? If he wants to release a high-quality, Michelle Merkin-esque photo of himself for GFDL, great. But since when do notables get to write in and simply ask that work we invest in obtaining GFDL high-quality images can be taken down simply because they don't like the way they looked that day, or whatever gets replaced with junk? Is celebrity vanity really going to be what dictates our media? Is this really a function of OTRS? David Shankbone 04:05, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
David, if this is the way you are going to act, maybe we need to remove your name from the images you have taken to the degree allowed by GFDL. Honestly, we have gone way overboard allowing you to promote yourself. And I did not have a problem with that until you wrote the above. Rethink yourself bigtime. Really. You name it Mike Farrell by David Shankbone. We allow that. But now you want to fight for that image. Would you fight as hard if we took your name off the image's name? We can you know. What part of free culture and WP:NPOV are you not getting? This is not your playground for you to promote yourself. WAS 4.250 ( talk) 08:16, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Traditions. How horrible!
Judeo-Christian tradition should be ignored in American and European politics. Islamic tradition should be ignored in the Middle East. Buddhist tradition should be ignored in Asia. Not just religion, though. American tradition, European tradition, African tradition, all traditions should be ignored.
And Jimbo-Walesean tradition should be ignored in Wikipedian politics. Because justice and The Truth is far more powerful than any man-made tradition.
Random832: Do not do anything and ArbCom will dissolve itself. If you try to act, you will be dissolved by the community.
Jimmy, a valve is useless if it develops rust.
And on sanity:
In a mad world, only the mad are sane.
☯ Zenwhat ( talk) 16:32, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
Please stop trolling.-- Jimbo Wales ( talk) 19:31, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
My quiz has been created about few weeks ago but nobody seems to know my quiz. I have already listed it at WP:FUN but I still get no response! How can I tell the others about my quiz and link it to Portal:Animals?-- Mark Chung ( talk) 02:05, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
And Cade Metz of The Register is apparently insane.
I spoke to him over the phone about the hoax on Brahmanical See, hoping to see maybe a good article in The Register criticizing Wikipedia's accuracy (since that generally tends to spur Wikipedians to improve this place).
We spoke over the phone for a while and he took notes. He seemed like a nice guy, but I kinda got that "far left-wing conspiracy theorist" vibe, like he reads Noam Chomsky on the way to work, wears Che Guevara T-shirts in the office, and supports the Green party, because all the other parties are "kapatalist." He suggested I read his article on overstock.com and I got the vibe there, also.
Well anyway, maybe I'm just being naive here (Warning: Wikipedia is like hypnotoad!), but I decided to check Wikipedia's article on naked short selling and Overstock.com. I found a fair amount of sources firmly establishing that the mainstream media considered this stuff silly. So, what is Cade, then? He seems to consider himself to be like Hunter S. Thompson, a lone crusader against the corrupt media elites. He's probably a 9/11 truther. His editor lets him do that because, as with all infotainment, it sells.
Well anyway, today, he emailed me with the subject title "story".
"Oh boy," I thought, "The article got published!"
The article is here.
I was disturbed after reading the title, the lead, and the first page, to find that it wasn't anywhere near what I expected. First off, Brahmanical See isn't even mentioned.
What the story is about: Apparently, because there's one admin who has ties to a shady to a religious organization, this automatically implies that Wikipedia is secretly run by a Hindu cult!
Check out these juicy tidbits:
Prem Rawat's religious movement is widely recognized as a cult or former cult
And such sources say that within the movement, Rawat is or was regarded as a divine being.
Editors on Wikipedia named Zenwhat think Cade did or did not do enough good factchecking.
If what Cade says is true, then there is a COI problem, but then again, it's hard to say. Jossi's response seems fair enough.
I guess I shouldn't blame Cade. I mean, he does live in the the SФѴIEТ ЅФCIДLISТ ЯEPUBLIC OF ЅДИ FЯДИCIЅCФ. San Francisco groupthink is pretty much the same as Wikipedia groupthink. That's what it means, I think, when somebody at the Foundation said they're moving to San Fran because of "like-minded individuals." (read: radical and naive communitarians). The result is that, like San Francisco, the economy of Wikipedia is in shambles, we are dominated by political correctness, and we are overrun by people trying to take advantage of the system at the expense of everybody else.
In any case, now I have to apologize to Jossi, since I guess this is somewhat my fault, since Cade wouldn't have leaped on the "Hindu conspiracy train" if I hadn't e-mailed the Register about Brahmanical See. ☯ Zenwhat ( talk) 03:43, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
I find your analysis interesting, but I can now reveal something pretty interesting which more or less proves that Cade Metz is right about everything. You see, Time Magazine has an annual Time 100 party. Current honorees and some past honorees are invited. I have been fortunate enough to attend twice, it is fun. (I usually just stand around geeking out with Mitchell Baker from Mozilla and Craig of Craig's List...) Now, I also was asked to be a presenter at an annual magazine awards show. Interestingly, the magazine awards show takes place in the same space as the Time 100 party. In the green room, I met Kevin Bacon, who was also giving out an award. Get it? Time Magazine, Kevin Bacon? It's all a big conspiracy.
And don't even get me started about Hindu cults, that's even easier to prove. I just last week was in... yep, you got it... India. What else do you need? :-)
It's really time that people realize that The Register is not a serious website, it's a parody... of itself.-- Jimbo Wales ( talk) 05:44, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
As I earned a mentioning on User:Jossi/Response:
See my edit summaries for these two edits. -- Francis Schonken ( talk) 17:03, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
Well, El Reg is bad source and all that, but this was a present on a golden platter.-- Francis Schonken ( talk) 23:41, 8 February 2008 (UTC)More neutral presentation in the article and in some instances sources with better neutrality would be preferrable. From an outside view, this article spends a lot of time on fawning over the subject and his POV. The criticisms section is well-cited, but poorly written. I receive the impression the criticism section was simply tacked on to appease complaints, without balancing the tone and sources for the rest of the article. Also, for such a controversial figure, the overall balance between positive POV and critical views is way off. This is particularly noticed in how the criticism section is very neutral in tone, while much of the article is written from a very positive POV. What is particularly disturbing to me in regards to NPOV is the occasional use of antagonistic sources to support pro and simple fact claims. This seems dishonest to me, to say the least. An editor can state "anti" sources are included to support a claim of NPOV, but this is a dishonest presentation of the use of those sources. By failing to use sources in their proper context, a casual reader is easily mislead. This not only applies to purely oppositional sources, as negative information from other sources used is also notably absent from the article. (bolding added - less than a year later the criticism section was completely gone)
The reason I started this sub-thread was that I was mentioned in some bad journalism, while I had indeed tried to prevent with good methods what was a deplorable state of the Prem Rawat article.
I still do the same, but I think it is good for Jimbo to see where the resistance is coming from, directly, not filtered through complotist journalism. -- Francis Schonken ( talk) 00:21, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
"correct me if I'm wrong."
Francis, there is no such thing as wrong and I cannot correct you.
See Wikipedia:Neutral point of view/FAQ#There's no such thing as objectivity.
I think that your subjective opinions are interesting, just as I think Jossi's subjective opinions are interesting. Perhaps you should discuss the matter directly with Jossi and you can build consensus, and come to a reasonable conclusion on what subjective opinions should be included in articles relating to Prem Rawat. If you're suggesting that Jossi is biased, we're all biased, Francis. None of us are objective because there is no such thing as objectivity or critical thinking. ☯ Zenwhat ( talk) 00:29, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
The COI guideline should be nuked. It just causes headaches for everyone. Whether or not you have a conflict of interest, you either follow the core policies or you don't. One man's "exptertise" is another's "conflict of interest." Please get rid of this hypocritical guideline. 65.54.154.116 ( talk) 04:54, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
This might provide a good rough first guess on articles Jossi should not be over-influential on at wikipedia. Let him do his thing at Citizendium, where being too close to something is not a big deal. The contrast between what gets created there and here will help both sites in dealing with the issues. WAS 4.250 ( talk) 22:48, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
User:Jossi/Response contains: "the people [Cade Metz] used as a source, [...] even attempted to subpoena me to disclose the identities of fellow Wikipedians [...]"
Appears the subpoena was filed before Jossi's first edit to Wikipedia, and had nothing to do with Wikipedia. [11] [12]
Don't import outside conflicts in Wikipedia, per WP:NOT#BATTLEGROUND. If you had a conflict with Marianne over webcontent you produced for Prem Rawat or his organisations (or whatever), don't even dream of implicating Wikipedia in that via your "Response" page. -- Francis Schonken ( talk) 08:23, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
"Jossie Fresco has referred to my libel lawsuit in his wikipedia entry. His statement that I tried to find out the identities of wikipedians is completely false. My lawsuit was filed in February, 2004. The libel complaint is based on numerous statements made on the internet which falsely claimed I was involved in illegal activity. The libel complaint details many of the statements, which occurred between 2001 and 2003. Wikipedia is never mentioned. A superior court judge authorized a subpoena to Jossi so he could be deposed about his knowledge, as Rawat's webmaster, of the identities of the people making these libelous claims - again, none of which involved wikipedia." [13]
Perhaps Jossi is referring to Wikipedia editors involved with the subpoena that together with him have helped to maintain related articles??? Just guessing, here. WAS 4.250 ( talk) 10:21, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
My judgement is that within the context of the Prem Rawat article Jossi Fresco has exerted authority in an unfair way. To judge Jossi favourably because one can't find that he has done anything wrong seems short-sighted. What you might might want to look at is what he hasn't done that he should have. Like...over a period of years, turning a blind eye to the weasely editing of the Rawat article by fellow followers and ignoring their patronisation of other editors, whilst liberally dishing out warnings to the latter. Let me put it this way, as a critical former follower I wanted to edit this article to better reflect the truth which I see as being heavily revised. It is hardly encouraging to have Rawat's very own henchman residing over this article in an apparent position of authority. Worse to find that he is writing the rules and influencing every possible other connected article on an apparently full-time basis is extremely off-putting. One really feels that there are insurmountable ramparts around that article and most non-partisan editors have fled in frustration. As a result you now have a highly biased article. It that simple fellas. PatW ( talk) 19:36, 10 February 2008 (UTC) PatW ( talk) 19:32, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Please see User:Jossi/Response#Declaration_of_intent. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 22:06, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Hmm. Sounds like you have no intention to leave Rawat articles for others then. You intend to refrain from editing these articles 'directly for now' but you still intend to report people whose behaviour you deem inappropriate. If I were you, as a matter of common sense and conscience, I'd make that a very long 'for now' and when I did return (if I ever did) I'd be at great pains to demonstrate impartiality about that Prem Rawat article and I'd allow other more impartial people to take over. As a matter of fact that's what I have actually done myself. As I see it, one of the main problems with the Prem Rawat article is that premies make all these obsequious noises when caught being partisan, promise to take a break, but return to promptly revert everyone's edits when the hubbub has died down. Like everyone says you are apparently missing the gist of what people are telling you which is: Because there is notable objection to premies effectively 'owning' this article and also some furore over your perceived COI it would simply be polite and considerate to let others finish the job. As you know, I am a former premie and critic who stopped supporting Rawat and was drawn to this article because I objected to dishonesty and a policy of revisionism from him and his organisation. Even I can see that it is even best that I do not edit that article and stick to arguing my points on the discussion page and I have noticed that the other so-called 'ex-premie' critics generally do the same. Frankly I think that once opposing factions have laid out their cards on these types of controversial articles, the time naturally comes when they should both reasonably withdraw and let non-combatants take over. Both 'sides' should stick to arguing on the discussion pages and bow to the judgement of the public. How Wikipedia can encourage and put this into effect is another thing. PatW ( talk) 12:31, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
PS. If I were Mr Wales I would seriously worry that an expert in cult pushiness was aspiring so obsequiously to a position of authority in Wikpedia. The last thing Wikpedians need is lessons in how to hide things and get away with it! That will only lend weight to the existing accusations of Wikipedia being cultic. And Jossi, you do speak the cult language so perfectly. You keep saying stuff like 'Here we do things this way...' or 'In Wikipedia we do this " as if you are getting all cosy in some alternate reality where thousands of years of evolved human values have no place - only the cult-speak matters. The obvious parallel is Rawats own world where only his truths apply and everyone runs around nodding even if he's wrong. Maybe this is your natural home from home! PatW ( talk) 03:11, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
[...] WP:NOT#SOAPBOX [...] -- Francis Schonken ( talk) 19:24, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
Jimbo, this episode with Jossi and Rawat brings up this issue again, which is, anonymity vs COI. Which one is more important? If anonymity is more important, then Jossi has just been treated unfairly because he made the "mistake" of editing under his real name. If open participation in this project is more important to you, then I would imagine that you would lean towards this view.
If COI is more important, however, as I believe it would be if your priority is to produce an encyclopedia with a credible reputation, then I imagine that you would now be telling Jossi that you don't even want him to breathe in the general direction of any of the Rawat articles. So, which side do you lean towards? Cla68 ( talk) 07:01, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
Jimbo, your "Anti-Scientology News" has hit a new low with this article prominently displayed on the front page: Wikinews international report: "Anonymous" holds over 250 anti-Scientology protests worldwide. With two protests off "we" post a past-tense story that that are 250? Here they are taking the story live at 05:19 UTC, looking more like they want to drum up support for upcoming rallies than anything else:
"The Internet group Anonymous today held over 250 protests, critical of the religious group Church of Scientology and marking what would have been the 49th birthday of Lisa McPherson, who is claimed to be a victim of the Church of Scientology's practices."
I have said before that there is no jounalistic integrity over there when it comes to Scientology and they just proved my point with a bang! Carry on. -- JustaHulk ( talk) 08:27, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
I am on a soapbox - the soapbox that perhaps the captain of this ship, and perhaps some experienced and intelligent editors over here, might want to take a bit of responsibility for a sister project whose excesses reflects on this project, too. I see that my correction of the title of the aforementioned article, in which I removed the partisan crystal-balling in a neutral fashion, has been reverted and labeled vandalism by one of the main partisans, an admin there that says: "I am currently a candidate for the Wikimedia Board of Trustees."
"Please do not removed sourced, true information from articles. That is considered vandalism. DragonFire1024 ( Talk to the Dragon) 15:19, 10 February 2008 (UTC)" n:User talk:JustaHulk
"I am currently a candidate for the Wikimedia Board of Trustees." Scary stuff, that. -- JustaHulk ( talk) 16:02, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
and that you continue to push as the headline (albeit with a vaguer tense). That someone as clueless about the difference between reality and partisan wishful thinking as you evidently are (and as willing to champion the latter as you are) would be considered for a Trustee is truly stupefying. -- JustaHulk ( talk) 21:45, 10 February 2008 (UTC)"The Internet group Anonymous today held over 250 protests"
I think the problem is that we allow Anonymous editors on Wikipedia. ☯ Zenwhat ( talk) 16:34, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
Jimbo and others, since I, on occasion, use this page in a perhaps provocative fashion, I would like to please direct your attention to User:JustaHulk#Announcement. -- JustaHulk ( talk) 15:47, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
I'm not exactly sure you'll even bother to read this, but I, along with many Wikipedia users, wonder what your stance is on fictional topics on Wikipedia. The users you've entrusted your project to have essentially done nothing but babble back and forth for months now on what should or shouldn't be included as content on this encyclopedia, while infamous users such as TTN have been going on crusades deleting, trimming and merging hundreds, or possibly thousands of articles citing these controversial guidelines as rules set in stone. Many of these deleted articles are episodes of popular television shows and fictional content, some being formerly Featured Articles such as Bulbasaur or ones that were constantly on the top 100 viewed articles. Most of these article deletions are cited as "okay" since the content is sometimes moved over to horribly maintained and obscure external Wikis such as Wikia. I myself have long stopped being truly involved with Wikipedia because of this mindset that so many "powerful" Wikipedians share, but would still enjoy hearing your opinions or seeing a little intervention. - 4.154.237.192 ( talk) 18:16, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Now, again, don't mistake my argument. I'm sure all Trek fans are happy to have that stuff there, and cruft-killers here are happy to see it gone. BUT, the problem is that once this kind of thing is set as trivia killing precident, we set a bad precident for killing "cruft" or trivia that actually has no place else on the web to go to, because fewer people are fans of it. Once gone from wikipedia, it goes back to whatever newpaper microfiche or musty library stack it came out of originally, and is now unavailable to the rest of us. I saw that happen to bios on supercentinarians, and even some of the people who wrote them were effectively banned. Not good. Especially when we have to suffer through lists of Grand Dukes of Luxembourg and their next-in-succession (groan). S B H arris 20:37, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Alas, the favor is not returned, for the deletionists have all kinds of rationales for deleting information that doesn’t interest them. Example: Hemoglobin used to have a subarticle created by me, discussing hemoglobin variants about the many genetic polymorphisms of alleles. This medical information was damn well more notable and important to humananity than the line of succession of Luxembourgian Grand Dukes. It got deleted and redirected to the original article before it had time to grow. Now, somebody’s on the hemoglobin TALK page, wondering what’s the difference between tetramer varients and allele varients, and I have no place to direct them. This is/was a case of encyclopedia damage, not failure to find a puppy shelter.
If you want a more whimsical example that I had little to do with, I recently made my one and only (small) contribution to Bokononisms, refering to sayings from an artificial religion created by Kurt Vonnegut for Cat’s Cradle. Somebody noticed this, and proceeded to gut the article, saying the content wasn’t referenced. When I restored it, pointing out that it was, they deleted again, saying it was copyright infringing. When I reverted, they said the material had not only infringment but had notability problems. Basically they just want it GONE, and if one reason won’t do, another will. That’s the battle we fight all the time, here. And if you’re wondering what’s the connection is, to stuff disappearing to Wikia for profit, like the Klingon articles, the answer is that ANYTHING like this, ends up “giving aid and comfort to the enemy.” The enemy being people thinking to write an encyclopedia, yet who really cannot empathize with anybody else’s special interests (!). S B H arris 20:07, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
To claim that wikipedia merely does cruft well is to grossly underestimate wikipedia. If I see a problem it is underselling wikipedia, after all 6 times out of 10 its a better search engine than Google or Yahoo. Thanks, SqueakBox 20:30, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
For what its worth, I think the entire drive by a minority of editors to feverishly delete or get rid of all the episode articles is just over the top, stupid, and petty. It's a classic example of "I don't like it, or think it has value, so no one will have it." I'd weigh in but that's such a bitter, rancorous pool, like the spoil mess, that I really don't need the aggravation. Lawrence § t/ e 17:15, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
Just to let you know out of courtesy, there is a discussion involving you on AN/I. Thanks Whit stable 13:06, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
Mr. Wales, can you help me? I am twelve and I am a new Wikipedian. All my teachers hate Wikipedia and tell us to use gulp, real encyclopedias! My Wikiholic friend and classmate, Stormtracker94 is with me. Please give me some advice! -- Carerra ( talk) 23:35, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
Do I understand correctly that you still retain the ability to dissolve the present ArbCom and hold new elections? — Random832 15:35, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
I believe so, yes. I think the ArbCom would support me in that notion as well. However, the chances of me doing that are vanishingly close to zero. It's a useful safety valve in case of a major major problem, but not something I have any interest in doing. The power of our traditions rests primarily in them being sane, and their use being sane.-- Jimbo Wales ( talk) 15:40, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
Do you consider the Arbitration Committee's actions in the above-named case, by which an administrator ("Vanished User" refers to this person throughout, if you wish to review the case) has been driven away from the site and the community's input has been completely ignored for no apparent reason other than it not having been the outcome Uninvited Company wanted, to be "sane"? If you haven't been following it closely enough to know what the issue is, I can try to put together a summary sometime this week. — Random832 21:06, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
I've watched over 30 arbitration cases unfold. The Matthew Hoffman case was the worst handled one I've ever seen, and that includes my own. Durova Charge! 07:28, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
Keeping in mind that those who disagree with a ruling may be more vocal in complaining than those who are satisfied are likely to praise it, I do not agree with those who think the ArbCom handled this case badly. The now vanished user violated policies and abused admin privileges, per the now final decision; suggesting that the ArbCom did their jobs badly because they bent over backwards to make accommodations to the vanished user is really unfair to them. — Whig ( talk) 17:21, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
Now that the case ended and Vanished User has left the building, I'll point out another flaw in this proceeding: the ruling didn't actually prohibit the community from readminning this editor. Compare the wording of this case's remedy to previous arbitration desysoppings. Vanished User's supporters knew they had the numbers, thanks to the well attended RFC. An RFA would have been an open challenge to the Committee and a reminder of where their mandate springs from. Durova Charge! 20:37, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
...being that Jimmy Wales can nullify the decision in that case. "The Arbitration Committee [...] can impose a solution that I'll consider to be binding, with of course the exception that I reserve the right of executive clemency" — clemency, my dear friends, being a way to resolve this with less disruption should Jimmy Wales agree with most of what has been said above.
Now, for the record, I a) don't have any interest in this case beyond the general interest I have in the arbitration policy, b) hence, do not know whether clemency would be warranted or ideal; I do not support or oppose it based on the fact that I know too little about the case, c) have only ever suggested this once before, directly and privately to Jimmy, so it's not as if I'm dedicated to pushing for clemency wherever possible, d) have no idea whether Jimmy is even sharing the belief that this case was not handled satisfactorally.
Basically, I think that this would be generally less disruptive than a dissolution, although I have no idea whether it's warranted, likely, or otherwise. Daniel ( talk) 05:01, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Hey Jimbo,
I would just like to thank you very much for looking deaper into the fring article and bring it back to life. When I wrote that article (article number 8) I really couldnt see why it got deleted. I understood the previous attempts by previous guys because it looked like advertising but I really attempted to do it according to all the rules and yet it still got deleted, I felt the system had a big hole in it and you have given me confidence in wikipedia again. The wheel is big but it does eventually turn around and I was amazed that the founder would take the time out of hi busy schedule to add his comment.
Thank you
I send you warm regards from South Africa
ps. When you are in SA again let me know, I missed your last visit sorry.
Regards
Simon
Goplett ( talk) 20:35, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
An Arbitration case in which you commented has been opened, and is located here. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Mantanmoreland/Evidence. Please submit your evidence within one week, if possible. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Mantanmoreland/Workshop.
On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, — Rlevse • Talk • 23:15, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
Romania and Slovakia has large Hungarian minorities, whom are constantly attacked in real life (for ex. Hedvig Malina, 2006 Slovak-Hungarian diplomatic affairs, etc.) and also online.
Tons of disruptive users are out there, like User:Roamataa (Romanian, deleting every Hungarian word and placename in Transsylvania related articles ( choose any), despite that it was part of Hungary for more than a 1000 (thousand) years, and still 1.5 million Hungarians are living there, and many place are haveing Hungarian majority, and centuries of Hungarian history, etc. User:Svetovid: Same, just change Romania to Slovakia, see only his block log, and the related edits. It talks for itself, and it says everything I want to explain and show and present. User: Tankred the same, etc. etc. dozens of similar users, some are as long here, and playing these dirty games, as of 2004. There are also a much smaller in number, but same agressive Serbian version of them, they are especially active on Vojvodina related articles. Common in them is their same level (high) agressiveness, massive edit warring on multiple pages, and deletion of Hungarian placenames and words from Wikipedia's articles, mainly in articles dealing with the Carpathian Basin's history and any of its former and present countries' histories, and in those articles wich are dealing with places once were within the Kingdom of Hungary (practically is within the Carpathian Basin) and eventually calling all of these words and placenames etc. mere existence a Hungarian (nationalist/irredentist) POV, as well as any/every Hungarian source for anything.
Not to mention those ppl's articles (for ex. Franz Liszt), whom were born (and/or died also) in the Kingdom of Hungary, but outside of present day Hungary, before the Treaty of Trianon. No matter that many of them lived well before the existence of Czecoslovakia or Slovakia, or never ever lived in that state(s) wich now claims them, there are always constant and never ending attempts to show anyone possible as Slovak/Romanian/Serb/etc. here, despite of their true (Hungarian) ethnicity, or their own claims, or the fact, that they never ever lived in those states, and/or they never considered themselfs serbs/slovaks/etc. Modern times' famous or well known ppl. from the Hungarian minority of these new or expanded states are also victims of Slovakization, Romanianization or Serbisation. For example there was many attemts to show Monica Seles as if she was Serb or Yugoslav ( [20], [21], etc.) She gained hungarian citizenship next to her american in 2007 June, but it is constantly getting deleted ( [22], [23], etc.), despite many sources. - Funny thing, that User:Tennis expert even deleted the statement copied from Monika Seles's biggest and oldest fan-webpage's (and be sure, they know EVERYTHING abt MS) had appaled (and obtained) Hungarian citizenship. But this may be a mere different story, and he's not anti-Hungarian, just a semi-troll or what.
Almost 9 out of ten Hungarian users here were at least once probed for sockpuppetry, also at least a dozen left the project just in 2007. These constant attacks on Hungarians should be somehow "finished" once and for all. -- 91.82.32.54 ( talk) 02:04, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Ya just can't be thin-skinned and edit for years on Wikipedia.
Nonetheless, I'll be taking a wikibreak (like you or anyone should care) over a teapot tempest stirred up by my honorable colleague Prodego (a completely unknown person to me) over my "sinister" talk page deletions. I have been here since NuPedia. Mea culpa: I've been deleting my boring User Talk page every so often for years. Someone pointed out that I should not. I tried (with help from the IRC team) to bring it back and archive it. It became a horrible mess. Now I am being beleaguered by well-meaning blinkered bureaucrats. I tell you, it makes me hate the place. It's getting like MIT, IBM or the world of Brazil (movie) here for me.
Years of service and $$$ donations brought to a depressing and depressed standstill. Vandalism and pedantic battles do not bother me as much as the inferno of having to work in an online nightmare. Should you care? Is this systemic? No. Wikipedia is one of the most important projects ever created and it will succeed and grow stronger. I have never written to you about anything ever, but now I am infected with a dread of even logging on for fear of seeing "New Messages". Thanks for listening. Caltrop ( talk) 02:36, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Hello, after reading your comments here, I thought you might be interested in the delegable proxy (aka liquid democracy) proposal Abd and I have been working on. This is a system in which people can appoint their own personal representatives. The first step will be to get people to start signing up at the proxy table; then an automated tool can be used to conduct analyses, or it can even be copied into a spreadsheet and combined with other info to make pivottables from which useful insights can be made. The possibilities are endless. Ron Duvall ( talk) 03:59, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Mr Wales,
The Wikipedia Logo has the wrong Hindi alphabet. I think this issue has been brought up before. When will it be fixed?
Hope to make Wikipedia better Σαι ( Talk) 12:10, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
If a well-known gramatically incorrect logo cannot be fixed after nearly a year of Wikipedia being aware of it, what hope can there be? Hope is the driving force behind Wikipedia failure. ☯ Zenwhat ( talk) 16:33, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, Zenwhat, stop trolling, ok?-- Jimbo Wales ( talk) 19:30, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
Could we not just very carefully replace the characters in a paint program? I'm good with this sort of stuff. Does anybody object to me giving it a go and making a test? • Anakin ( talk) 21:01, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
How could you? Cool Hand Luke 09:15, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
As near as I can tell, the situation is this: One POV side was careful to be nice to all the right people while the other side was careful to be as insulting as possible to all the right people (including vicious libelous attacks on Jimbo that have now been deleted on a site they control). The cabal rallied around the nice guys. The nice guys then proceeded to use their position to make certain articles POV, but not so much that the cabal would care. Meanwhile, the bad guys launch sock after sock after sock, so the cabal stops even trying to be fair and simply views anyone with the same POV as the bad side as a sock. Thus is born the thought crime and how doing battle on wikipedia creates sides. But in the end both sides need to be banned. One side was just so nice (100s of emails to the right people says Guy) that some still make excuses. Well, stand aside those of you who have befriended either side and let the community decide. WAS 4.250 ( talk) 12:23, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
(reposting from ANI and RFC) I've written to Jimbo and asked him for comment. He's traveling this week and may not be available to post onsite before Friday. I've reread the entire thread where that brief excerpt came from, and the context is about the difference between proof and hunch. It's possible to have a stong hunch without actually being right (cough). So let's not get too furious at Jimbo for being wiser in September than I was in November. Durova Charge! 12:57, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
I didn't make myself clear. I'm not suggesting that you knew or admitted you were certain that he was Weiss. The reason I am outraged is that respected admins—including you—suspected it, but sat idly by as inquiries into Mantanmoreland and Samiharris were suppressed. (Suppressed, incidentally, by some of those same respected admins.) At to make myself even more clear: Wordbomb was justly banned, but when legitimate editors like Cla68 raised the question, the appropriate response was to look into it, not bury it and ban those who would oppose. Cool Hand Luke 15:15, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
I am unaware of any suppression of any inquiries. I am unaware of any bans of anyone under the circumstances you mention. My actions have been limited to conducting an investigation into an allegation, and finding no persuasive evidence. As I have said elsewhere, the idea that someone was given a free pass for being a friend is nonsense. I don't even like Mantanmoreland, and have found him to be difficult or impossible to interact with. Nonetheless, it is true that I don't ban people just because I don't like them, nor do we ban people due to being the victim of stalkers. It is important to understand that there is some extreme POV pushing going on in this case, and much unsavory "sleuthing" has taken place to try to "out" Mantanmoreland. It's all rubbish if you ask me, but in any event here we are. If you can show me an example of "bury it and ban those who would oppose" I encourage you to file an ArbCom case about it. -- Jimbo Wales ( talk) 02:28, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Jimbo: Cla68 is more familiar with the history of this case, so I defer "suppression" evidence to his section of the RFAR evidence. Incidentally, he cites Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gary Weiss. Do you suppose this could be undeleted for the duration of the arbitration? Cool Hand Luke 01:41, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
Hi, Jimbo, a question: does BLP apply to articles about groups of living people as well as just living people themselves? Will ( talk) 01:25, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
Congratulations! With your comment you started a war edit on multiple Linux related pages. Maybe you should just rule what the content of Wikipedia should be and end the war, what do you say? Please be a man and comment on Talk:Linux not on users talk pages. Thanks. -- AdrianTM ( talk) 13:07, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
I'd like to suggest a new feature for Wikipedia. Yesterday some of my pages were deleted accidentally cos I was using some templates which were deleted. I then had to talk to the admin who deleted the pages and so on. What I'd say is to have a page called Talk to Admin where you can post your questions and any admin who is online at that time will be able to solve the problem. That'd be better won't it be? Σαι ( Talk) 14:06, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Hello Jimmy
According to Wikipedia, Larry coined the name Wikipedia (probably coined after Nupedia "New encyclopædia" I imagine) but it is not said who coined the name Nupedia. Do you have the answer to this question? 16@r ( talk) 16:56, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
A prominent and respected newspaper in Germany maintains this web page. At the bottom it says:
and you can click on "Liste der Autoren" and find who wrote what (if not their real names, but my own edits are under my real name). The very first sentence on the newspaper's web page is not the first sentence in the Wikipedia article, but occurs later in the article:
That sentence was written by me. It goes against the somewhat conventional wisdom that says she was born in Hagen. My statement about a celebrity who is universally known in Germany, where I've never been, and not so well known here to the left of the Pond, written by a person who needs dictionaries to write such a sentence in German, was the resource put on its web site by a major newspaper in Germany. Consequently I felt a certain sense of responsibility and thought I should check the facts more closely. My initial attempt in that direction resulted in someone in Germany telling me there's a web site where I could get authoritative information, and it was that newspaper web page where I was the author of the initial sentence.
That's how information gets around.
I may have solid information soon, and then I will edit the Wikipedia article accordingly and contact that newspaper.
How do you like that? Michael Hardy ( talk) 17:00, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
I Jimbo. Once again, I am asking you to (at least) take a look at this. This claim by admin User:Thatcher131 was disproved here. But the user is still blocked indef. Other checkuser requests show that no other sockpuppet was used. Neither after the ban, nor before the ban. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.83.132.236 ( talk) 02:56, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
Jimbo, I made this suggestion at the talkpage, and wonder if you would be amenable? No content, no addys, no headers, just the dates and times. Thanks. LessHeard vanU ( talk) 10:15, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
Hi there. Please see:
I also wonder if you would be able to advise on the best way to get clarification of the Foundation Licensing policy? The points I've raised here concern historical images and some mentions I've seen of a deadline. What I've said over there is as follows:
"[What] about this bit of the policy? "Such EDPs must be minimal. Their use, with limited exception, should be to illustrate historically significant events..." - it says right there: "to illustrate historically significant events". [...] Also, I've seen people say that there is a deadline of "March 23, 2008" to sort all this out, but in fact that deadline is currently written as a subclause of point 6. ie. It only applies to projects without an EDP. "For the projects which currently do not have an EDP in place, the following action shall be taken [...] By March 23, 2008, all existing files under an unacceptable license as per the above must either be accepted under an EDP, or shall be deleted." This may just be a mistake in the layout of the Licensing Policy, but if this is so, it needs to be changed and the change widely advertised."
As well as the 'deadline' confusion, my concern is also over historical images. I would be grateful if you could bring these points to the attention of the board if this needs clarification.
The above was written in August 2007 (the bit about historical images can be ignored for the moment - it is the deadline that needs clarification at board level) and left here, but got no response (as far as I can tell). For obvious reasons, it would be good if you, or other members of the Wikimedia Board of Trustees, could comment at the Administrators' noticeboard discussion, or find your way to where-ever the discussion ends up. I've notified the other Board Members where they have en-wiki user pages. Carcharoth ( talk) 10:27, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
Hi did you get my email? I think we must have broken a record today. Article count jumped from 2,228,000 mid last night to nearly 2,233,000 today! That's over twice the daily average. Check out the new pages for Saturday. There is currently a drive to get all the towns and villages in France onto wikipedia when other wikipedias have had these for years. Infoboxes will be added and hopefully by the end of this drive we will have 36,000 half decent new wiki articles. I think it is more important to get them up and running howeve limited they are initially and give a basis to work on. ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ $1,000,000? 21:43, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
Sorry. I just had to say hello to Jimbo Wales. Thanks, George D. Watson (Dendodge). Talk Help and assistance 22:02, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
Hello Jimmy
According to Wikipedia, Larry coined the name Wikipedia (probably coined after Nupedia "New encyclopædia" I imagine) but it is not said who coined the name Nupedia. Do you have the answer to this question? 16@r ( talk) 16:56, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Jimbo, above you said:
I want you to notice that here you are making a content decision in order to judge COI in order to decide whether or not a public discussion of a possible real world identity should take place. This sort of thing is obviously needed when wikipedia values both NPOV (so we have to watch out for COI) and anonymous editing (so we have to not take outing lightly). The problem I see in this case is that the sock war has resulted in public claims (e.g. in letters published by the SEC that are against both sides in the wikipedia war) that the articles have been biased by banning socks on the basis of the content they wished to add to the articles; resulting in the question of who at wikipedia should be evaluating the content of these articles for NPOV. We do not have a content arbcom. I think we should move in the direction of having an academically based one. It is policy that the community decides content, not a cabal. Yet, when a few people talk privately in order to avoid public discussion of a real world identity and that private group takes it upon itself to define NPOV for some articles in order to decide a COI question, then we have in fact a cabal making itself a content arbcom for those articles. It occurs to me that, since we have a de facto content arbcom when real life identities are involved, we need some sort of check&balance. For example, instead of saying "seemed to be quite good to me" suppose you were able to say "I asked a favor of two university professors who are experts in these articles to review the articles for bias (and accuracy, if they had time) and both thought it was a neutral presentation and said so on the talk page using their real names". I think we need to move in the direction of using real life experts for content arbitration in those few cases that cause huge problems. WAS 4.250 ( talk) 23:36, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Repost and elaboration from above. Cla68 is more familiar with the history of this case, so I defer "suppression" evidence to his section of the RFAR evidence. Incidentally, he cites Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gary Weiss. Do you suppose this could be undeleted for the duration of the arbitration? You were the one who deleted it, so I thought it best to ask you.
The deletion debate is especially enlightening in light of G-Dett's evidence of self-promotion. Cool Hand Luke 20:44, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
and i am now worried that i never thought you would, you only invented the damn thing! anyway thanks, thanks and again thanks Perry-mankster ( talk) 20:44, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Have you been to Boston lately? Its quite a lovely city. Charles Stewart ( talk) 04:22, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
Jim, I'm leaving Wikipedia. I am absolutely sick of the piss poor attitude of people on this site. This is a great idea Jimmy, but there's not enough oversight, there's little community, and I'm tired of the grief I get. I have other things I can do with my time. I wrote a note here. I'm really fed up, and my being blocked earlier this week on a whim, when I violated no policy (not even 3RR) because I continually changed a Talk page title that disparaged me and my work, in addition to attitudes like I found on your own talk page [24], and I'm just tired of it. --David Shankbone 15:40, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
David, sorry for the personal attacks you've been getting, another one was removed from Talk:Orthodox Judaism just recently. It's probably inevitable that out of thousands of images a small handful would be considered controversial for some obscure reason or other. I wouldn't worry about it too much. It doesn't take away from what you've done. Best, -- Shirahadasha ( talk) 06:17, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
The guideline under WP:SCL is only a proposed guideline. I was wondering how, if possible, to make it a rule on wikipedia. The reason I inquire is: I find it fairly difficult to find high schools with third party sources. I've seen some schools get deleted because of this. The reason given is always WP:N. I think that schools should recieve a category of their own. Please, if possible, leave a response on my talk page. Undeath ( talk) 05:41, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
Hello Jimbo. I'm sure you know, the issue of the Japanese and Devanāgarī characters in the Wikipedia logo being wrong has been brought up again and again on Wikipedia discussion forums and mailing lists. Or at least that's what I've now heard — I hadn't actually heard anything about this until I saw it on your talk page last week. Also, as far as I can see, the main reason it's never been changed is because nobody's willing to take the time to fix it. But — I did fix it, last week. I replaced the two wrong characters and left the rest as is. The logo is not actually too difficult to fix so it seems silly not to.
Since it's a Foundation logo, I really don't know what to do or how to propose it, or how to get consensus for it. There's no standard procedure but I'm asking on your talk page for your input. I'd like other editors to comment on it too. Thank you. • Anakin ( talk) 15:14, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
I Jimbo. Once again, I am asking you to (at least) take a look at this. This claim by admin User:Thatcher131 was disproved here. But the user is still blocked indef. Other checkuser requests show that no other sockpuppet was used. Neither after the ban, nor before the ban. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.83.144.211 ( talk) 18:20, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
I just wanted to stop by and say thank you. I am a High School senior who somehow wondered on Wikipedia and thought it would be cool to create an account. Since then, I have learned numerous things and have created my own page, when I thought it would be impossible. I want to thank you for allowing me to do this, as you created this wonderufl website. Many people have criticized me saying that Wikipedia is a useless site since anyone can edit it, but I dont think so. I think that it opens to door to possibility, and I feel that is what you thought when you created the site. Anyway, here I am rambling on and on. Please, if you need anything done, let me know, and I would be more than hapy to try and help you out, as you have already helped me in more ways then one. Thanks and Happy Editing, Dusti talk to me 18:50, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
Jimbo, I actually think your userpage is great. It might need some brighter colors but who cares? You're Jimbo Wales. By the way, what kind of car do you drive. I love cars. I really want to know. Please respond back!! Your fellow editor -- Carerra "I help newcomers! 21:12, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
Hi Jimbo. Thanks for creating Wikipedia! Our nascent New York City-area Wikipedians wanna-be chapter/affiliate ( meta page) and the Columbia University chapter of Students for Free Culture would like to invite you to a Wikipedia:Academy-type event to be held at Columbia toward the end of March, or maybe in April. We are at the very early stages of planning, and if you are at all interested in attending, we'll certainly set the date by what may fit on your itinerary. If you want to contact us, please e-mail me. Thank you.-- Pharos ( talk) 02:21, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
Request de-adminship of User:OwenX. User:Ledenierhomme removed my vote from an AfD debate.
This is vandalism, simple. I reported the matter to the administrator notice board for vandalism. Yet all OwenX did was to remove my complaint, doing nothing to Ledenierhomme. “report elsewhere” means nothing and does not help.
No reason was given for its removal or why the need to be placed elsewhere. This is extremely unprofessional and rude. Also why are other users allowed to remove my votes, perhaps OwenX would care to comment on that. Please remove OwenX’s admin rights for being unprofessional and unhelpful. Regards, -- Bryson 03:12, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
Cool page. I suspect it took you 7 seconds, right? Basketball 110 what famous people say 03:15, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
Dear Mr. Wales, I'm sorry, but I cannot be complicit in the suppresion of information that Jakob Dylan himself, released into the public domain via The Daily Telegraph Magazine: Oct 7, 2000. I wish you and Wikipedia, every success. Best wishes, Educated Guest ( talk) 15:28, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
Hello Mr. Wales. I was wondering if you could try The Random Button. And if you like it, please join Wikipedia:Random Button. Thank you for your time. Sincerely, Nothing444 ( talk) 01:06, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
Che Guevara has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here.
-- Polaris999 ( talk) 19:11, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
Hi Jimbo. Thought you might like an aesthetic break and feast your eyes on Miss Ana. ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ $1,000,000? 01:12, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
There is frequent vandalism on both Jimbo's talkpage and userpage from dynamic IP's. Currently both of these pages are semi-protected but that can't last forever. What should we do about this?-- Sunny910910 ( talk| Contributions| Guest) 01:58, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
Do you mind if I undelete Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gary Weiss for the duration of the Arbitration? Y/N Cool Hand Luke 20:20, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
I see no benefit in doing so.--
Jimbo Wales (
talk) 21:16, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
I'm rather hurt that you think I'm trying to create a public circus, but it appears that another admin heroically listed every single diff as deleted diff. Cool Hand Luke 19:10, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
This is making wikipedia look bad, we have two competing articles, two competing maps, one claiming Kosovo is independent and one claiming it's part of Serbia. They are cesspool articles full of POV edits. Even the maps don't match, the Kosovo map shows it separate, the Serbia map shows it part of serbia. Kosovo and Serbia need to be fixed Mineralè ( talk) 20:37, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
(reset indent) Can you link to it, Marskell? I'd like to help on this. Also, I was wondering: do you think ITN on the front page is to blame for recentism issues? ITN does place a lot of undue weight on topics of recent interest. It also encourages editors to work on those topics: if you want your work featured on the front page, you can either help out on a featured article (difficult), write a decent new article on a new topic (difficult), or make edits to an article of recent interest (easy). - Chardish ( talk) 19:09, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
so I made a .gif image that I though you might like (let it play all the way through) but it apparently it "Outside project scope. Also, licensing issues." (I'll definitely have to fix that second one) so if you want to see it you might want to hurry it's here-- Pewwer42 Talk 08:23, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
That had not occurred to me, dude.-- Jimbo Wales ( talk) 20:38, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
The WikiProject Barnstar | ||
Jimbo Wales, you have recived this barnstar for starting Wikipedia. Wikipedia is an extremely successful WikiProject, and you (with Larry Sangers) started it, thus I am giving you this barnstar. Smartguy777 ( talk) 18:41, 26 February 2008 (UTC) |
If you don't mind, I've taken the liberty of using a statement of yours as a quotation. I've seen it on at least four other user pages so far. Well written! seicer | talk | contribs 20:02, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
Many wikipedians think what i'm diego grez because I made articles related with that man. That's not really. Can you help me?, please. -- MisterWiki do ya want to speak me?, come there! - 20:51, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
Hi Jimbo!
I love your userpage, obviously you have spent a lot of time working on it, to get it just right!
Just a quick question.. how long did you actually spend on the Wikiholic test and did you answer all of the questions?
Congratulations for founding Wikipedia!
-- The Helpful One (Review) 21:22, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
Sell support for MediaWiki. WAS 4.250 ( talk) 10:38, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
In the request for arb on Mantanmoreland you were saying you didn't know where rumors came from that you had an interest in naked short selling and you said you had nothing to do with it. Well, the rumors came from the newspaper The Daily Herald, link http://www.heraldextra.com/content/view/248315/3/ -- 216.126.173.49 ( talk) 08:29, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
I am sure that either Mr. Byrne was misquoted, or made an innocent error. There's no way he just flat out lied to create a false impression to bolster his own apparent innocence in all this. No way, I am sure. :) In any event I am happy to report that it is completely false that I have a "deep interest" in short selling. I have never sold a stock short in my life, naked or otherwise. -- Jimbo Wales ( talk) 14:17, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
Last time I already left my message here. And this time this Australian Admin: user:Orderinchaos keeps going on to disturb and distract me (refer to: WP:STALK) by using straw man argument even I tried to talk to another administrator for another matter. Please refer to: User_talk:OhanaUnited for more detail (the conversation supposed between Ohanaunited and me, but he just suddenly stepped in and wrote irrelevant nonsense). Not long ago (last month in Jan), without reaching consensus, Orderinchaos hijacked and terminated all discussion and proposals in WP:ANI unmaturely concerning my topic ban on GAC/R and FAC/R in which there is no evidence or diffs over there were provided. I would like to let you take a look for this matter as this admin. user:Orderinchaos will surely keep going on to disturb and harass me in future including my talk page. Would you please keep this administrator from disturbing me? And I just feel sick of it. Thanks for your attention. Coloane ( talk) 01:30, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
This is painfully trivial stuff. I was asked several questions by OhanaUnited. [26] I replied to those questions on his talk page, creating a new section to do so. [27] [28] Coloane responded to my section. Since then I have had to put up with Coloane's odd attacks (including accusing me of hijacking my own topic) and even straight-out racism. [29] Orderinchaos 02:31, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
off topic: the title of this section would make a good punk rock band name. daveh4h 05:22, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
Jimbo, will you please ban I alway enjoy my Ice Cream =)......Meow from Wikipedia. This user was blocked for vandalized editing. -- 00:23, February 3, 2008 (UTC) (Null edit for archiving reasons, previous date was added manually. Fram ( talk) 19:20, 28 February 2008 (UTC) )
Grrrlriot (
talk) has smiled at you! Smiles promote
WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Happy editing!
Smile at others by adding {{
subst:Smile}} to their talk page with a friendly message.
(empty comment for archiving purposes. Fram ( talk) 08:35, 29 February 2008 (UTC) )
Hello Mr. Wales, I have a request. Would you please comment on my Editor Review, and let me know how you think I am doing. I am in pursuit of possibly applying for RFA again in the future, and I think that your comments, concerns, suggestions, ect. would be highly beneficial in this task. I thank you in advance. Dusti talk to me 20:16, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
I have posted the suggestions in the help desk but all I get is people telling me to post them in Village Pump/Technical and Bugzilla. I did that a long time ago and have gotten nothing back. I just want someone to tell me no were not doing that or yes we want to do that.
{{Comment:00215468|title=Suggestion}}