This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Just to let you know that this RFC was not certified by two users within 48 hours of being listed, so it has been deleted. Stifle 02:09, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
picking up from
this exchange
I feel like I should get to know you better. I want to understand what drives you. I think we come from radically different cultural spaces. course you know me only as a guy who created some redlinkz to something that prob won't exist anytime soon. I'm a whole user tho. not that different from tons of otherz. I check out stuff around
'pedia that interests me. I guess maybe I should understand better your idea of what's good faith and what's not. why are you pretty sure that my wikifying
cool head is not
GoodFaith? there are a million red links out there. some of them point to articles that have a decent chance of being written in a decent amount of time. some, I'm sure, point to
your mom. anyway, there are a million, so why me & my edits?
I agree it's unlikely that an article would be written about it. and I am thinking pretty long term into the future. Like a redirect. do you see problems sometimes here and there about wikipedia and ever say "fuck it" and not fix it? skizzno logic3.3 09:30, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
I'm not deliberately ignoring you. I just don't see that this constitutes the basis for a prolonged discussion. I'd rather create and edit articles than engage in dialectic. Regards, Durova 03:49, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
-- O bli ( Talk) ? 17:37, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
There are minor spelling errors in your evidence section "RfC on Jonathan Sarfati." You have User:Felonious_Monk which should be User:FeloniousMonk. Also, "chargres" which I think should be "charges." JoshuaZ 19:09, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
Dear Durova:
You have the honor of being the 14th person to respond to my survey!
Thank you for your participation. Your responses to the survey are much appreciated!
The final essay should be posted on my user page no later than March 27. Stay tuned!!!
Shuo Xiang 01:52, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
You seem like a reasonable person, and you have experience working in the edit conflict regarding the equally controversial Front National (France). So I ask you to interject your opinions regarding the edit conflict in the Sweden Democrats article, which is largely modelled after the FN article.
Basically, a member of the Sweden Democrats, SweHomer ( talk · contribs), says that the article is extrememly biased against the party. He says that the sources are part of a media conspiracy, that the article slanders the SD, and that the editors opposing him are working for the anti-racist magazine Expo. He also says the SD's view is not fairly represented. He has edited only the "Response to the Controversy" section, as of now.
I and Liftarn respond by telling him that all we did was provide quotes from the party and include a chronological timetable of notable events within the party. This way, we hope that readers can draw their own conclusions. We used the Wikipedia:Guidelines_for_controversial_articles as the justification for our edits. We believe that his edits are blatantly not NPOV. We deny his ad hominem attacks.
Your opinion would be appreciated, and pretty soon we may be conducting a straw poll.
WGee 21:50, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
Regarding your comments about older online historical soures, I'm curious as to how you "rank" sources because of this? Do more modern works tend to be taken over older when there is a conflict? How do you view them stacking up with regards to "primary sources"? I'm just asking your personal opinions and actions in this regards. - Vedexent 22:02, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
Sure, I would be willing to help, to the extent that I can, on attempting to bring this article to FA status. I'm not sure what precisely needs to be done, though. Perhaps you could enlighten me. BTW, I did put in an external link to the Joan of Arc statue in Portland, OR. I will be travelling to Portland this summer for the Portland Highland Games and plan on seeking it out in order to photograph it. It would be nice to have a CCPL image of that statue. JFPerry 23:06, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
Hello Durova : ) Thanks you for your input in the Sweden Democrats article. I agree that the opening paragraph is too strongly worded and your other comments. About 3 days ago, I started working with the three editors that are fussing ovet this article. WGee had left a message on WP:AN/I requesting SweHomer be banned. I checked it out and found all three editors were being a little rude, a whole lot stubborn, and were reverting each other. Mel Etitis responded the next day to WGee 3RR report on SweHomer. Both of us felt the editors need to back off editing the article until consensus is reached. I started a subpage to work on the text. If you would make your comments there maybe they will use it. I want to keep the discussion in one place and on topic. All three of them keep getting off topic and accusing the other. (Like WGee's original message to you with accusations about SweHomer : ). They are pretty reasonable people, so I am hopeful we can have a good outcome. -- FloNight talk 22:02, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
Again you are taking turns in reverting. Can you please stop this and restore text to the version FloNight put it in?
"Do not remove or re-insert text without discussion leading to consensus. You have been asked nicely by myself and Mel."
I put this in the "talk" page of everyone, so there can me no further accidents. These to reverts were of course not done on purpose, you both just missed to read what Flonight wrote. SweHomer 12:11, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
This is part of a discussion carried over from Joan of Arc brought to a more appropriate place -- your talk page:
You stated, "An administrator warned you today about WP:POINT." That absolutely explains nothing why you think it is a WP:POINT. It does not help this situation to state it in such a way. JzG's comments, which made the WP:POINT link, do not help the situation either. It is obviously something that could not be said so plain and simple. Its insertion only aggravates the situation. In the theme of WP:POINT, it would be much easier to just state your point rather. As for JzG, it is obvious he is not impartial to everybody, and he admitted to it. JzG hasn't explained anything either, but he has made accusations. Anyways, such topics are very unproductive. How you come off to me is very rude. Perhaps, that is just your style to make your point. You go about and connect me with jhballard -- what for? What is the point? What do you really have to say about that? Again, its unproductive. Why do you like to riddle these talk pages with such junk? It doesn't have anything to do with the article.
Look at this, which you stated:
What does glass houses have to do with the article? What is it that your have tried to insinuate? What does it matter if my past account is jhballard? Who cares if I admit to it or not? State your point. Perhaps, after you made fun of my daughter's name, and that I couldn't get you to stop -- that is the whole reason why I switched accounts. You are mean. My daughter is completely innocent to this. However, you and Sw posted personal information to this wikipedia without my permission. That is a violation of policy! I posted the information off-site. I never gave you or anybody permission to create such a scene over my daughters name. Bottom line, my daughter's name should have never been brought up -- period. The only information relavent from the family tree is the descension from the d'Arc. However, you and Sw went further than that -- you went too far.
Your actions against me, even the failed attempt at an RfC above, show that you have a personal motive. Whatever it is... it's not nice. Please, be more helpful and nice. — Dzonatas 16:23, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
What are you trying to achieve? Durova 23:28, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
Durova, your email is not activated. I need to talk with you. Could you activate it or send me an email so I have it. thanks, -- FloNight talk 16:39, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
I see, and I'll give that serious consideration. Wait while I read up on the progress of that case. Regards, Durova 03:38, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
Hi Durova, could you maybe clarify how much of that RfC outside opinion you we're endorsing? In particular, the RfC outside opinion did say that Agapetos' behavior was disturbing. Did you intend to only endorse the first part? Thanks. JoshuaZ 05:02, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
Durova, I am concerned about something you wrote on the RfA. You stated, '... it's obvious that only Agapetos angel's behavior is under scrutiny in this action'. That is incorrect. The RfA is a result of a request by KimB for an emergency injunction. It did not pass on those grounds but was accepted to examine 'the behavior of all parties to this case'. Therefore, it was necessary to point out the actions of the others, rather than just defend myself. Like the AN/I, however, it is being turned into something different than intended, as evidenced by your confusion. It might have helped matters if it had been called Agapetos angel, et. al., or something similar.
Also, I want to point out that I did not sign anyone's name to a straw poll; that is a oft-repeated falsehood that is gaining weight by the repetition. The misunderstanding arose from my listing names after a straw poll attempt (which I called a vote for consensus). I did this to summarise and bring people back to the issue at hand. It was completely blown out of proportion by editors feeding off one another that it was some sort of second straw poll, even after I explained that it was a summary. I reformatted my text several times to attempt to compromise between clarifying their misconception and retaining my assessment of that ongoing issue. Even from the beginning post of that summary, though, I indicated that Guettarda's dissent was implied (i.e., inferred - not expressly stated; he reverted the article to a previous version before my changes to the intro, indicating to me that he disagreed not only with the edit immediately before his revert, but also with my edits to the intro. This assessment was validated by Guettarda's later breakdown of complaints regarding the intro I proposed.). After several edits and two apologies, my user talk page was spammed with vile accusations that I removed and called trolling (after two warnings for Guettarda to stop doing it).
I've stopped participating on that RfA because no matter what I say to defend myself, I'm supposedly lying, and no matter that I show the other editors' misbehaviour, I am supposedly only deflecting attention from myself (ignoring that the RfA was to examine ALL behaviour). Hopefully it will be over soon and we can all go back to constructive editing. I just wanted to clear up these points with you. agapetos_angel 07:35, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
Fair enough. I'll strikethrough that statement. Thanks for clarifying. Durova 15:48, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
Could you weigh in at the bottom of the Talk Page for Katelyn Faber regarding the inclusion of an image of her? User:Tufflaw, who unsuccessfully tried to have the entire article deleted back in December 2005 insists on censoring/deleting it for extremely specious reasons, and I've been asked to gather a consensus. Please read the bottom two sections of that page. Thanks. Nightscream 18:58, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
And double-thanks for being proactive with the page, and the editor. — Bunchofgrapes ( talk) 15:49, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
Dear Durova:
This is Shuo Xiang again reading through your response to my Wikipedia survey while I'm adding the final touches to my essay.
I'm really really really impressed with how many languages you are apparently fluent with. It seems that you know at least Russian and French in addition to English.
So tell me, how was it that you were able to learn French so well. I've spent five years learning French in Canadian high school (Canadian students are required to learn French), and I still can't speak it to any significant extent.
Thanks again for your in-depth and detailed response to my survey!
Shuo Xiang 16:31, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
Hello Durova. Thank you very much for reviewing for my article. I liked what you had to say and I made some changes based on your comments. On the other hand, I also pointed out where you went wrong in some places. I'd like you to take another look and tell me what you think. Once again, thanks a lot. UberCryxic 01:09, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
Hey again. All the "10,000" figures (excluding casualty figures at Augincourt), because I admit they are controversial, have been removed. How does it look now? UberCryxic 01:46, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Just to let you know that this RFC was not certified by two users within 48 hours of being listed, so it has been deleted. Stifle 02:09, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
picking up from
this exchange
I feel like I should get to know you better. I want to understand what drives you. I think we come from radically different cultural spaces. course you know me only as a guy who created some redlinkz to something that prob won't exist anytime soon. I'm a whole user tho. not that different from tons of otherz. I check out stuff around
'pedia that interests me. I guess maybe I should understand better your idea of what's good faith and what's not. why are you pretty sure that my wikifying
cool head is not
GoodFaith? there are a million red links out there. some of them point to articles that have a decent chance of being written in a decent amount of time. some, I'm sure, point to
your mom. anyway, there are a million, so why me & my edits?
I agree it's unlikely that an article would be written about it. and I am thinking pretty long term into the future. Like a redirect. do you see problems sometimes here and there about wikipedia and ever say "fuck it" and not fix it? skizzno logic3.3 09:30, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
I'm not deliberately ignoring you. I just don't see that this constitutes the basis for a prolonged discussion. I'd rather create and edit articles than engage in dialectic. Regards, Durova 03:49, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
-- O bli ( Talk) ? 17:37, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
There are minor spelling errors in your evidence section "RfC on Jonathan Sarfati." You have User:Felonious_Monk which should be User:FeloniousMonk. Also, "chargres" which I think should be "charges." JoshuaZ 19:09, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
Dear Durova:
You have the honor of being the 14th person to respond to my survey!
Thank you for your participation. Your responses to the survey are much appreciated!
The final essay should be posted on my user page no later than March 27. Stay tuned!!!
Shuo Xiang 01:52, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
You seem like a reasonable person, and you have experience working in the edit conflict regarding the equally controversial Front National (France). So I ask you to interject your opinions regarding the edit conflict in the Sweden Democrats article, which is largely modelled after the FN article.
Basically, a member of the Sweden Democrats, SweHomer ( talk · contribs), says that the article is extrememly biased against the party. He says that the sources are part of a media conspiracy, that the article slanders the SD, and that the editors opposing him are working for the anti-racist magazine Expo. He also says the SD's view is not fairly represented. He has edited only the "Response to the Controversy" section, as of now.
I and Liftarn respond by telling him that all we did was provide quotes from the party and include a chronological timetable of notable events within the party. This way, we hope that readers can draw their own conclusions. We used the Wikipedia:Guidelines_for_controversial_articles as the justification for our edits. We believe that his edits are blatantly not NPOV. We deny his ad hominem attacks.
Your opinion would be appreciated, and pretty soon we may be conducting a straw poll.
WGee 21:50, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
Regarding your comments about older online historical soures, I'm curious as to how you "rank" sources because of this? Do more modern works tend to be taken over older when there is a conflict? How do you view them stacking up with regards to "primary sources"? I'm just asking your personal opinions and actions in this regards. - Vedexent 22:02, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
Sure, I would be willing to help, to the extent that I can, on attempting to bring this article to FA status. I'm not sure what precisely needs to be done, though. Perhaps you could enlighten me. BTW, I did put in an external link to the Joan of Arc statue in Portland, OR. I will be travelling to Portland this summer for the Portland Highland Games and plan on seeking it out in order to photograph it. It would be nice to have a CCPL image of that statue. JFPerry 23:06, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
Hello Durova : ) Thanks you for your input in the Sweden Democrats article. I agree that the opening paragraph is too strongly worded and your other comments. About 3 days ago, I started working with the three editors that are fussing ovet this article. WGee had left a message on WP:AN/I requesting SweHomer be banned. I checked it out and found all three editors were being a little rude, a whole lot stubborn, and were reverting each other. Mel Etitis responded the next day to WGee 3RR report on SweHomer. Both of us felt the editors need to back off editing the article until consensus is reached. I started a subpage to work on the text. If you would make your comments there maybe they will use it. I want to keep the discussion in one place and on topic. All three of them keep getting off topic and accusing the other. (Like WGee's original message to you with accusations about SweHomer : ). They are pretty reasonable people, so I am hopeful we can have a good outcome. -- FloNight talk 22:02, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
Again you are taking turns in reverting. Can you please stop this and restore text to the version FloNight put it in?
"Do not remove or re-insert text without discussion leading to consensus. You have been asked nicely by myself and Mel."
I put this in the "talk" page of everyone, so there can me no further accidents. These to reverts were of course not done on purpose, you both just missed to read what Flonight wrote. SweHomer 12:11, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
This is part of a discussion carried over from Joan of Arc brought to a more appropriate place -- your talk page:
You stated, "An administrator warned you today about WP:POINT." That absolutely explains nothing why you think it is a WP:POINT. It does not help this situation to state it in such a way. JzG's comments, which made the WP:POINT link, do not help the situation either. It is obviously something that could not be said so plain and simple. Its insertion only aggravates the situation. In the theme of WP:POINT, it would be much easier to just state your point rather. As for JzG, it is obvious he is not impartial to everybody, and he admitted to it. JzG hasn't explained anything either, but he has made accusations. Anyways, such topics are very unproductive. How you come off to me is very rude. Perhaps, that is just your style to make your point. You go about and connect me with jhballard -- what for? What is the point? What do you really have to say about that? Again, its unproductive. Why do you like to riddle these talk pages with such junk? It doesn't have anything to do with the article.
Look at this, which you stated:
What does glass houses have to do with the article? What is it that your have tried to insinuate? What does it matter if my past account is jhballard? Who cares if I admit to it or not? State your point. Perhaps, after you made fun of my daughter's name, and that I couldn't get you to stop -- that is the whole reason why I switched accounts. You are mean. My daughter is completely innocent to this. However, you and Sw posted personal information to this wikipedia without my permission. That is a violation of policy! I posted the information off-site. I never gave you or anybody permission to create such a scene over my daughters name. Bottom line, my daughter's name should have never been brought up -- period. The only information relavent from the family tree is the descension from the d'Arc. However, you and Sw went further than that -- you went too far.
Your actions against me, even the failed attempt at an RfC above, show that you have a personal motive. Whatever it is... it's not nice. Please, be more helpful and nice. — Dzonatas 16:23, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
What are you trying to achieve? Durova 23:28, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
Durova, your email is not activated. I need to talk with you. Could you activate it or send me an email so I have it. thanks, -- FloNight talk 16:39, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
I see, and I'll give that serious consideration. Wait while I read up on the progress of that case. Regards, Durova 03:38, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
Hi Durova, could you maybe clarify how much of that RfC outside opinion you we're endorsing? In particular, the RfC outside opinion did say that Agapetos' behavior was disturbing. Did you intend to only endorse the first part? Thanks. JoshuaZ 05:02, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
Durova, I am concerned about something you wrote on the RfA. You stated, '... it's obvious that only Agapetos angel's behavior is under scrutiny in this action'. That is incorrect. The RfA is a result of a request by KimB for an emergency injunction. It did not pass on those grounds but was accepted to examine 'the behavior of all parties to this case'. Therefore, it was necessary to point out the actions of the others, rather than just defend myself. Like the AN/I, however, it is being turned into something different than intended, as evidenced by your confusion. It might have helped matters if it had been called Agapetos angel, et. al., or something similar.
Also, I want to point out that I did not sign anyone's name to a straw poll; that is a oft-repeated falsehood that is gaining weight by the repetition. The misunderstanding arose from my listing names after a straw poll attempt (which I called a vote for consensus). I did this to summarise and bring people back to the issue at hand. It was completely blown out of proportion by editors feeding off one another that it was some sort of second straw poll, even after I explained that it was a summary. I reformatted my text several times to attempt to compromise between clarifying their misconception and retaining my assessment of that ongoing issue. Even from the beginning post of that summary, though, I indicated that Guettarda's dissent was implied (i.e., inferred - not expressly stated; he reverted the article to a previous version before my changes to the intro, indicating to me that he disagreed not only with the edit immediately before his revert, but also with my edits to the intro. This assessment was validated by Guettarda's later breakdown of complaints regarding the intro I proposed.). After several edits and two apologies, my user talk page was spammed with vile accusations that I removed and called trolling (after two warnings for Guettarda to stop doing it).
I've stopped participating on that RfA because no matter what I say to defend myself, I'm supposedly lying, and no matter that I show the other editors' misbehaviour, I am supposedly only deflecting attention from myself (ignoring that the RfA was to examine ALL behaviour). Hopefully it will be over soon and we can all go back to constructive editing. I just wanted to clear up these points with you. agapetos_angel 07:35, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
Fair enough. I'll strikethrough that statement. Thanks for clarifying. Durova 15:48, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
Could you weigh in at the bottom of the Talk Page for Katelyn Faber regarding the inclusion of an image of her? User:Tufflaw, who unsuccessfully tried to have the entire article deleted back in December 2005 insists on censoring/deleting it for extremely specious reasons, and I've been asked to gather a consensus. Please read the bottom two sections of that page. Thanks. Nightscream 18:58, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
And double-thanks for being proactive with the page, and the editor. — Bunchofgrapes ( talk) 15:49, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
Dear Durova:
This is Shuo Xiang again reading through your response to my Wikipedia survey while I'm adding the final touches to my essay.
I'm really really really impressed with how many languages you are apparently fluent with. It seems that you know at least Russian and French in addition to English.
So tell me, how was it that you were able to learn French so well. I've spent five years learning French in Canadian high school (Canadian students are required to learn French), and I still can't speak it to any significant extent.
Thanks again for your in-depth and detailed response to my survey!
Shuo Xiang 16:31, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
Hello Durova. Thank you very much for reviewing for my article. I liked what you had to say and I made some changes based on your comments. On the other hand, I also pointed out where you went wrong in some places. I'd like you to take another look and tell me what you think. Once again, thanks a lot. UberCryxic 01:09, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
Hey again. All the "10,000" figures (excluding casualty figures at Augincourt), because I admit they are controversial, have been removed. How does it look now? UberCryxic 01:46, 21 March 2006 (UTC)