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Hello, and thanks again for taking part in the MedCab mediation about Wikipedia:Verifiability. I noticed that you haven't yet submitted a draft of the lede as I outlined in the instructions for step two, so I am just sending this message as a reminder. The deadline was 10:00 am (UTC) on Sunday, March 11, but as there are still eight drafts left to come in I am extending this by a day, to 10:00 am (UTC) on Monday, March 12. To recap, I would like you to draft your ideal version of the lead to the policy and post it on the mediation page, without any commentary. You can find the full instructions at Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/27 February 2012/Wikipedia:Verifiability#Step two. Please let me know if you have any questions, and I would especially appreciate you getting in touch if you may have difficulty meeting the new deadline. Best wishes — Mr. Stradivarius ♫ 13:54, 11 March 2012 (UTC)
Hi Pesky, I wondered if you saw this tip about Alexander's BA thesis? I'd follow it up myself, but I seem to be having a bit of a break at the mo. It occurs to me that, if Alexander's BA thesis isn't properly published (and it'd be unusual if it was, obv), it can't be cited on WP – but it would still be great to have sight of it! Also, Alexander should've cited his sources, so they can be cited – even via the BA thesis I'd have thought, e.g. per WP:SAYWHEREYOUGOTIT…? I've never done that before (i.e. "citation–>unpublished thesis–>RS"), and someone (i.e. not me!) might have something to say about it, but I don't think it'd be unreasonable...? Dunno, really, but anyway fingers crossed that we can get a copy somehow. Hope you're ok. Nortonius ( talk) 12:44, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
Don't be obsessively clean! ... things could get worse than you think ... it's not just a waste of soap! Pesky ( talk) 14:00, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
Hi Pesky, looks like the draft at wt:civ brought forth some discussion, which is good. Getting back to what is supposed to be happening at User:Ched Davis/civility sandbox I suggest we need to put more thought into the style of writing, or styles of writing which are best suited for the composition of Polpages like wp:civ. Have you looked at for instance Help:Wikipedia: The Missing Manual? I have and at this time, not overly impressed with the style of the writing there. Seems a bit dogmatic, a bit sort of advertisy, a bit sort of close and personal without much personality. Maybe I am just hard to please. Lot of good info there, quite comprehensive, so I oughtn't complain, but kinda dissapointingly dullsville, like it came from an advertising agency, rather than real people. You interested in taking a look? Cheers NewbyG ( talk) 12:41, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
( ←) Just noting more worthwhile discussion is occurring at wt:civ where you are getting some good riffs off. Now someone mentioned wp:BEANS, and I was put in mind of this gem of a comment Ahh yes, posting... it here brings it to the attention of maybe a hundred times more people, of whom some don't know what they're doing, and some would be better off not doing what they do! LOL NewbyG ( talk) 02:14, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
I watch (Ched's page and) your determination towards more civility with pleasure. I started the other end, same direction, perhaps you want to join there. The one who framed Geometry guy's wise statement, -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 10:39, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
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inspiration of civility |
Thank you for speaking up for civility, decency and fairness, treating editors as living people, -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 10:58, 14 March 2012 (UTC) |
Awww, thanks! Pesky ( talk) 11:25, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
Wheeeee! I have a date with my favourite neurosurgeon – in just under two weeks' time! I have been waiting far too long for this, already; the damned glitchiness of constant neuropathic pain, loss of sensation when I do need it, compromised motor function over about a sixth of my body, and all that goes with it, has been causing me so many hassles ... it will be just great to have my neck sliced open, pulled around, drilled and re-bored, and generally mangled ;P Pesky ( talk) 13:17, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
I couldn't agree more. Without the NHS, (a) I would be dead, and (b) I would be crippled if I weren't dead. I've almost lost count of the number of surgeries I've had (just to give you guys an idea, this will the the 14th in 3 years), and every single one of them has had a major positive impact on my quality of life / health. If I had been in the US, no insurance company would have given me cover, I don't think. And as for the Empire, if you look around the world today and see just how much is owed to the Empire of the past, you'd have to be singularly unobservant not to appreciate the impact the Brits have had. Phenomenal. I don;t know quite what it is about the Brits, but we are different in some fundamental ways. Whether it's because we're island people, or because we're descended from so many different adventurous / invasive / innovative and downright courageous stock, or a combination of a hundred different things, I have no idea. But we are distinctive. (And, of course, we're the bestest ;P ) The horsey people will know just how much British horse and pony breeds have affected horses around the world. I think only the Arab / Arabian has had more global impact than the British breeds. (And the Iberian breeds are the next in terms of global impact, I think.) And we're a set of comparatively tiny islands. Wow. Just wow. Pesky ( talk) 11:08, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
That must have been incredible.
'Bout time too, with this op - as of this afternoon, the whole top of my left arm wants to just hang there like a dead thing; I'm currently having to type with my left foot propped up, so that I can prop up my left arm on my leg, just to keep my left hand at keyboard level :o( Tried to turn of a light switch just now, and you would not believe the effort it took to do it. Bloody thing ... Pesky ( talk) 23:56, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
For making Your dwelling in hearts broken by hardship and sorrow. Nowhere is Your healing presence so evident as in the place of pain and suffering.
That's terrific news! Sorry for not seeing this sooner, but at least the surgery is fairly close by the time this comment has landed. :P Hugs and best wishes, wctaiwan ( talk) 16:11, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
Hi there Pesky. I am involved in an argument at the Great Dismal Swamp maroons article involving the use of caps for the word "maroons". If you are interested you may see the discussion I opened on the talk page. I come to you because you have been around the Wikipedia block so many times that you may be aware of where I can go for help. I'm often willing to go with the flow, trusting group wisdom, but once and a while I do dig my heals in and this is one of those times. Any suggestions about where I may find Wikipedia-use-of-caps in this particular situation? Thanks, Gandy Gandydancer ( talk) 19:14, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
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Like you need this, I sure don'tI've got a history with this editor and so I think someone with a slower pulse should handle further discussion: Talk:English_saddle#Any_editors_here_ever_hear_of_.22references.22.3F Montanabw (talk) 19:15, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
Samuraiantiqueworld ( talk) 20:46, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
Samuraiantiqueworld ( talk) 06:46, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
Samuraiantiqueworld ( talk) 08:21, 17 March 2012 (UTC) ![]() |
... but they'll probably re-stock soon. Pesky ( talk) 20:33, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
(This is in response to the following comment, which was placed on my talk page)
I just noticed your comment at AN/I that you have Asberger's; I'm a high-functioning autistic myself, and I personally know quite a few other Wikpedians who inhabit the grey areas of the autism spectrum. (Several of whom stalk my talk!)
You're always welcome to wander over in my direction; we're an odd bunch around my talk page, but a supportive bunch. As well as being an HFA myself, I've also professionally taught Aspies, Auties, a huge range of others (including non-Autie geniuses!), so I'm really happy to help out with any tips or even just moral support you might want from time to time. All the best, Pesky ( talk) 23:51, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
Sorry to have drawn a certain editor to your user page. You handled it well, though. You see why I needed to stay out, no idea how to handle something like that. Montanabw (talk) 04:52, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
I've asked a totally uninvolved and good-egg admin if they could possibly have a look at the over-all situation (I particularly didn't like the stalking / hounding aspect) and, if they see fit, just have a nice, gentle few words with the editor concerned to try and nip this stuff in the bud before they end up at RfC/U or AN/I; good to stop / de-escalate dramahz before it gets too out of hand, and a fresh pair of eyes with no likelihood of being accused of cliquey affiliations might do the trick. Pesky ( talk) 09:49, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
Hi Pesky,
You seem to have offered to take him under your wing, so I want to give you a heads up, and you can handle it any way you want to, including ignoring it. I'm not going to post it to his talk page, because I have a feeling it would stir things up, but you're welcome to simply point him to this if you think it useful. Or delete it.
On reflection, I think we admins seriously dropped the ball here, and FLM should have been blocked. This is not an otherwise good content creator with a potty mouth, this is someone who, so far, seems to see everything here as a battle, and is clearly violating NPA. I'm not a civility cop, and the problem is not being cranky or a bit rude, but actively making numerous attacks on others. This was not a rocky start, this was a train wreck, and about 90% due to FLM's attitude, not his newness. I worry that not being blocked sent him the wrong signal. You should be aware that I am not looking for slow steady improvement in his behavior, I am looking for a very, very rapid turnaround in his behavior, with zero personal attacks on other editors going forward, or i will be indef blocking the account.
I appreciate you're trying to salvage something here, and I'm sorry I'm not giving you the breathing room you might like, but the targets of his ire have put up with more than their share already, and they will not be putting up with any more of it.
I haven't forgotten that I owe you a look-see about another issue. -- Floquenbeam ( talk) 14:29, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
I looked at your other issue a little, at first glance it seems like one of those intractable problems that Wikipedia is truly excellent at generating. I think there are issues from both parties, and some portion of "blame" not necessarily equally distributed. I'm not convinced everyone involved will value my feedback. I'll look at it a little more, but it might be one of those "ignore it and pray it goes away by itself, even though you know in your heart it won't" things. -- Floquenbeam ( talk) 15:28, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
Yup, twat means just the same thing, as does prat, and fanny (which means arse, I think, in the US. Sorry, that would be "ass", which means idiot or Equinus asinus here in the UK). I think the thing is that we Brits are just much more laid-back about using cusswords – they really don't have the nastiness over here that they do in the US. If a relatively-educated person here in the UK wants to be really, really insulting, we seem to resort to that icily cutting soul-undermining politeness, uttered in a clipped and posh-as-possible voice (the "telephone voice", perhaps), which we would never use to a friend. Apart from Biggles, who almost always says things tersely, and usually while waggling a finger. And yes, it's the morphine again! Pesky ( talk) 20:01, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
Hi Pesky! Thanks for your input in the mediation - it's always nice to see your comments. :) Now I know that you said you weren't going to submit a draft for step two, but would you be willing to just point me to a version that somebody else drafted, that you think is rather good? I want to do this for the sake of trying to treat everyone equally, and also to satisfy my curiosity about where everyone stands on the issues involved. I'm not cold-hearted enough to make it absolutely mandatory though, so I'll understand if you don't want to, especially with your date coming up. ;) There are a lot of good drafts out there already, both in the mediation archive and in the WT:V archives, so you shouldn't be stuck for choice! You don't have to do it straight away, either - just when you have a spare moment will be fine. And if you have any questions, just let me know. Best — Mr. Stradivarius ♫ 15:47, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
I noticed this. It was very kind of you to try to help. Anything you can do to turn this editor around and harness some of that energy towards something good, will be very much appreciated. Thanks for going the extra mile. -- John ( talk) 22:24, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
I think of you as 'Ebu', it's a cultural term, in a machine translation it might mean a woman who is the speakers senior, which misses the real meaning of a wise and respected grandmother, but then, some things are lost in translation because the community's pervasive attitude of respect for your elders in one community is bankrupt in another. But if I say 'Ebu Pesky' or 'bu' (pron. Boo) I know you'll understand me.
"No Wikpedian chooses to be blocked; that's a decision which others make for them. And even when consensus says this should be reviewed, or changed, it seems there is nowhere to go; and, not knowing what to do, people just give up trying. They "wander off"."
Yes, but add to that the very many people who watch the highway. They see it is no place to stand and do not venture onto it. Every time I/we/all see a car crash, I/we/all think it is pointless to put in any effort to this project. It is a fair thought. One kumioko incident produces many many casualties and injuries.
I see a path to change, but often I can't say ahead of time what is ahead. People need to be led closer so they will be able to see the idea for themselves, or they will resist going to a place that they'd quite like if they actually got there. So many times, my ideas look a lot like green eggs and ham.
So to go slowly. The tribe sees the lost, and want to speak in support. The lost see the template, and most some see it as more blatant than it is, as a block template speaks with the voice of the wide community.
Should it be made so that it draws back the curtain and people can see the wizard ?
Can I make anims to help your HFA project ? I like anims lately. I can do much better than these just say ideas or words or images or concepts, just the first 10 or 20 silly things that come into your head when I say HFA will do fine. Penyulap ☏ 10:01, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
Those anims are awesome! I can't easily think of concepts for illustrating the thought-processing differences between Autism-spectrum people and non-auties which would work as anims, though. I find it easy to create parallels like my varying-types-of-colour-blindness one, or the sound one: think of a piece of music with the treble turned right up and the bass very muted, compared with the same piece of music the other way up, if you see what I mean; it's the same piece of music, with all the same tracks, but it sounds completely different. It all depends on which parts of it you pick up on, and which don't really get through. A-spectrum vs. neurotypical thought processing is just like that. Pesky ( talk) 05:57, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
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The Ass Award |
I return the favor of your ass with a nice intergluteal cleft. Thank you so much for expanding the zoo on my user page. Drmies ( talk) 16:23, 22 March 2012 (UTC) |
ROFL! I thought you'd like my cute little ass ;P Pesky ( talk) 16:31, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
... brush your teeth with an electric toothbrush, while looking at an LED number display (microwave, cooker, clock radio, etc.) Coolio! Who needs 'shrooms?! Pesky ( talk) 23:49, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
diff on my talk page Check the "Line 1" modification. The editor knew very well how I'd feel. Goodbye! -- "DrYouMe"→"Mrt3366" (Talk?) 05:41, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
I'm sure that once you've "found your feet" here you'll get on just fine; being a newbie is very hard, it's a very steep learning curve. But our really passionate newbies (and often those who get into a pickle because of their passion when they're new) often turn out to be our most outstanding editors :D Pesky ( talk) 08:36, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
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Mother decided she wanted the pond's waterfall to flow faster. The tap is down on the pump, at the bottom of the pond. So I reached my arm as long as it would go, and then leaned over just a bit more ... and fell in!
An English garden pond is a very cold place in March! Pesky ( talk) 14:33, 24 March 2012 (UTC)
Ideally you want to build up a little mini ecosystem in the pond, so a selection of pond plants helps to encourage little mini-beasties in which eat even minier-beasties and algae. Several tench (and no, ours haven't grown to ridiculous sizes!) "hoover up" stuff from the bottom as well; and we have a selection of "decorative" fish. Different types have different food preferences, so if you have quite a few different types, among them all they'll eat a lot of things which would otherwise try to invade and take over. I also have a breeding farm for live fish food (brine shrimp, glassworms, tubifex worms and daphnia), which is basically a big dustbin filled with pond water, with a couple of oxygenating plants, into which I chucked a starter stock of live food. They just breed in there without predators, and I grab a bucketful of that and chuck it in amongst the marginal plants in the pond every couple of days, which adds to the things which eat algae, diatoms etc. And the fish eat them, which is why I breed them in a separate area. Pond snails do help keep algae (blanket weed) off the sides, but they actually prefer to eat the plants which you want to keep!
The only problem we've had was an invasion of blanket weed, but products to zap it aren't expensive, and work well. Pesky ( talk) 05:48, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
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Thought I'd reply here... as I've made my point over there. Sure, I was mildly baiting MF, but that was in response to him randomly picking a fight with me at ANI - when that discussion was closed, I took it to his page. Without referring to you, it alarms me somewhat that an editor's disgraceful conduct is overlooked because he might be a "nice guy really" or do some good somewhere else. He tells people to eff off, calls people playground names and has been blocked for it over a dozen times. To be roundly criticised by a number of editors who a) had absolutely nothing to do with the discussion in hand, and b) are probably old enough to know better is a rum affair. As I say, no criticism of you, but if someone can't control his own puerile conduct, then he deserves the occasional ribbing at the very least. I'd have to get up very early in the morning to come anywhere near his violations of WP:CIVIL. Cheers, Bretonbanquet ( talk) 13:27, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
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I am still alive ! I woke up hours ago, I'm not entirely happy with the work (I can already tell it's not done properly, because standards here are poor and they wouldn't listen to me). But I am ok ! (alive)
It was weird, I didn't like the tube into the hand. I don't like that at all. They left it there for ages before taking me to the theatre, and I didn't like that at all. They 'snuck' the anesthetic into it I think, but am not sure, because I remember leaving for the theater, but the memory gap begins before arriving in the theatre.
The whole thing was weird, if I can / could choose, I'd not have it in the same country again. But at least 1/2 the operation was completed ? I don't know if I should be happy or grumpy. Maybe 1/2 and 1/2 ? My friend here thinks I am complaining, I don't know. (he didn't have 1/2 an op though) Penyulap ☏ 11:04, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
Back at home to lick wounds. I remember they pulled some tube out of my nose (yuk) while I was just waking up. I woke up fighting actually. As soon I was awake i was signing(talking) with one hand before the rest could move, and within a minute or 5 I was pulling out that nasty thing in the back of my hand. It wasn't a needle, there was a long thin tube inside the skin. It was like that movie Aliens it was disgusting to have something inside me like that, I peeled off the tape and pulled it out. it was like an inch long, or maybe my memory distorts the length, but it must have been at least 15mm, and probably a mm wide and yuk. Even though the Aliens in that movie seem worse to you, it doesn't to me, cause the aliens are on tv and that thing was in my hand. Haven't you had nasty parts too Pesky? there has to be some things that make you eewew. but not to think about, I don't like to think of it. I want to go to bed now and sleep I think (soon). Penyulap ☏ 11:45, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
Penyulap, sleep, and sleep, and then sleep more. It's a good thing to do, after anaesthesia. But, between sleeps, get up and move around so you avoid the possibilities of getting clots, and drink as much watery-based drinks as you can bear to pour down your throat. And remember that pain-killers were invented for a reason – in this day and age, there's just no reason to put up with pain when you don't have to. @Malleus, it's not permitted to ship shrooms around the country other than for research purposes, so if you want to sample the local cuisine, you have to pick your own! And then eat them in situ ... Pesky ( talk) 07:22, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
I did sleep today, during the afternoon, for another reason. When I was waking up, I had dreamt that I was editing, although I can't remember where on wiki. I looked for the mouse, which I was sure was just in my hand. While I was waking up slowly, I thought the mouse was in the bed with me in my hand. It wasn't. That is what really happened. but for a " Mythbusters" version, with something I found, and I edit spaceflight articles mostly, I dreamt that space agencies had sent teams of engineers to my bathroom, and they were assembling a satellite on the bathroom floor, of course satellite are bigger than bathrooms, but this one was scaled down, along with the engineers. The satellite was a blue cylindrical one with deep blue colored solar panels all around it, and it was on the floor amongst the porcelain of the bathroom fittings. The engineers would walk up to it and touch it with probes, they were dressed all in white or all in yellow with facemasks and suits that completely covered their heads. They carried test instruments with long curly cords connecting to the test probes. I like that dream better, because it comes with a real picture complete with miniature engineers. Penyulap ☏ 11:22, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
I just looked at aliens film article, bad idea, it scared me a heap as soon as i got down as far as the one on the face and stuff around there. ARGH! Not a good idea. Surgery + things inside your veins + aliens article + mouthful of blood = BAD IDEA!!!!! I goto bed. Penyulap ☏ 11:50, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
Hi Pesky, I heard that you recently went through some health related issues - and I wanted to pass along my prayers, and best wishes that everything is working out well. Sending some Gampa hugz, and a few wolfie kisses your way. Hope all is well. — Ched : ? 12:04, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
Good to hear that the surgery has gone well and that you're bouncing back. Best wishes, Pam D 13:07, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
P.S. My good source books are all in storage, but, if I remember, I will have a look around for some more sources. Pesky ( talk) 08:32, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
...but I am reasonably confident he was just trying to use that as a shield from criticism. Which, IMHO, is fairly reprehensible. Still, I'll keep it in mind if I run into something similar again. -- Floquenbeam ( talk) 14:27, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
Adding: If he's a "wriggler" who looks for loopholes to do what he wants to do anyway, just don't leave him a millimetre of wriggle-room. Instead of using words like "should", "shouldn't", "best not to", etc., be absolutely uncompromising "do", "don't", "never", etc. Pesky ( talk) 07:28, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
Hey thanks for the reply on my talk page for your comment. I will take them into consideration. Still, I realise that I shouldn't have used my disability as an excuse to get away with what I wanted because It pissed of Floquenbeam, and Strange Passerby at the same time. It was a bit tad far and I apologize for the inconvenience and the disruption caused. I realize that my actions could affect the other people around me. IF you think I am going to use this all the time to get away with what I want, please note that I do all I can to try not to do such a thing. If there's anymore I feel unaware of, can I come and ask you for guidance? If so, Thanks and Happy End of March. :) Soviet King ( talk) 10:07, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
Hello Pesky, this is just to let you know that to help find compromise drafts at the verifiability mediation, I would like each mediation participant to submit at least one draft at one work group that includes the best of all the previously submitted drafts of that work group. This will probably make more sense if you look at this section on the mediation page, but if anything is still unclear, just let me know. Best regards — Mr. Stradivarius ♫ 17:36, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
I made a pic for you pesky. I started off thinking how your mods are sort of like the android technology, and then I came across a texture for an android eye, and added it to another image, but it went off in a totally not you direction, but ok for an actual wikibot. But then I saw this sprightly lass, and thought yep, that's pesky. Unless it's like one of those can't get out of bed feeling too creaky days, then there are other ways to feel. HAHA just kidding. Actually I feel that way about 30 % of days when I walk (but only for a while). But I'm ok. You're ok too I do hope. Penyulap ☏ 13:52, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
I'm glad you're beginning to feel better. Give it a fortnight or so, and you'll hardly know it was done. Pesky ( talk) 06:22, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
A caterpillar? Pesky ( talk) 17:38, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
Hello Pesky, this is another update about the verifiability mediation. We have now started step five, in which we will work towards deciding a final draft for each work group. I would like you to submit a statement about this - have a look at the mediation page to see the details of what you should include. The deadline for this step is 10.00 am on Friday 6th April (UTC), and unlike the other steps I am going to be strict about it. If you don't leave a statement by the deadline, then you won't be able to participate in steps six or seven. If you think you are going to be late turning in your statement, please let me know as soon as possible - I can't promise anything, but it will be much easier to work out alternative arrangements now than it would be after the deadline has passed. Best regards — Mr. Stradivarius ♫ 17:43, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
Hey! Big update on what the developers have been working on, and what is coming up:
coding
All other elements are either undergoing research, or about to have development started. I appreciate this sounds like we've not got through much work, and truthfully we're a bit disappointed with it as well; we thought we'd be going at a faster pace :(. Unfortunately there seems to be some 24-72 hour bug sweeping the San Francisco office at the moment, and at one time or another we've had several devs out of it. It's kind of messed with workflow.
Stuff to look at
We've got a pair of new mockups to comment on that deal with the filtering mechanism; this is a slightly updated mockup of the list view, and this is what the filtering tab is going to look like. All thoughts, comments and suggestions welcome on the NPT talkpage :). I'd also like to thank the people who came to our last two office hours sessions; the logs will be shortly available here.
I've also just heard that the first functional prototype for enwiki will be deployed mid-April! Really, really stoked to see this happening :). We're finding out if we can stick something up a bit sooner on prototype.wiki or something.
I appreciate there may be questions or suggestions where I've said "I'll find out and get back to you" and then, uh. not ;p. I sincerely apologise for that: things have been a bit hectic at this end over the last few weeks. But if you've got anything I've missed, drop me a line and I'll deal with it! Further questions or issues to the usual address. Thanks, Okeyes (WMF) ( talk) 17:06, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
So, motor function is back to all those muscles which had mega-reduced nerve input before the op. And, of course, since they haven't been working properly for months and months, they are all grossly unfit and soft. And I can't switch off the nerve supply to rest them!
So, my supraspinatus, infraspinatus, rhomboid, trapezius and part of the latissimus dorsi muscles have been merrily working away, non-stop, and now they are on fire and swelling up, just as you'd expect unfit muscles to be when you suddenly start remorselessly working them, non-stop! Arrrrrrrrggghhhhhhhh! Serious muscle pains! Pesky ( talk) 07:57, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
That's what I came for, about the UBX 4 HFA which is DOA ATM. I had been thinking to have a short sentence where words switched with synonym or pictures, the way a Rubik's Cube changes on it's face. So the same sentence presents the multitude. That was the idea, but I can't think of any decent sentences for it. I got excited when I saw that 3 people have chosen to use my ubx's. even though I hadn't really finished PenTrain properly at all, and though I better get to work, but the HFA I thought I better ask for help with on the ideas, as I was going nowhere. Penyulap ☏ 15:17, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
Hi! What didn't you like about Draft 0 of group 4? Regards, -- Bob K31416 ( talk) 21:23, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
Hi! I notice you added a notability concern tag to Years of Red Dust. The good news is I found that the New York Times book review wrote about this book. Want me to find more reviews? WhisperToMe ( talk) 07:57, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
![]() Dispute Resolution – Survey Invite Hello ThatPeskyCommoner. I am currently conducting a study on the dispute resolution processes on the English Wikipedia, in the hope that the results will help improve these processes in the future. Whether you have used dispute resolution a little or a lot, now we need to know about your experience. The survey takes around five minutes, and the information you provide will not be shared with third parties other than to assist in analyzing the results of the survey. No personally identifiable information will be released. Please click
HERE to participate. You are receiving this invitation because you have had some activity in dispute resolution over the past year. For more information, please see the associated research page. Steven Zhang DR goes to Wikimania! 11:19, 5 April 2012 (UTC) |
Done
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The Modest Barnstar | |
In recognition of all the work you’ve done lately! 66.87.2.116 ( talk) 13:49, 5 April 2012 (UTC) |
Haha! I've done so little work recently that I feel like a fraud with this on my page! Thanks, anyway! Pesky ( talk) 17:57, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
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The Very Modest Barnstar | |
In recognition of the little things that you do. Penyulap ☏ |
But I can't tell you which one is for what, because the little things that you do mean so much to me. They all seem so big to me! Penyulap ☏
It left the
cute
little barnstars in my
mind
. So it was a perfect fit to my vocabulary to say what I wanted to say.
It was on the tip of my tongue.
but it turned out that I couldn't do that big image within my attention span so I adjusted my aim to do a faster compound image instead. That worked out to illustrate the same idea I wanted to say, it also left the barnstars on the loose. I still haven't brushed up on how to do the text all around the pics, not priority. Penyulap ☏
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I haz a new essay!Read it at WP:AUTIE! Nice, kind, constructive comments welcome. The other sort probably not so much. Pesky ( talk) 07:59, 6 April 2012 (UTC) ![]()
Brilliant! Hey, but you forgot one thing ..... when your train is going from right to left, your name is back to front on it! You need to edit those few frames so it's the right way around :o)
Pesky (
talk)
20:35, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
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RFC bot (
talk)
15:18, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
A train for you, if you get the message on this one.You saw the message written on the fast train, well the message with this train is quite different, but you have to have good internet I think or it is a bit jerky and won't display correct, I'm not too sure.
I put it on a separate page, because I noticed before when I was doing some machinima for someone's userbox that long videos choke the user talkpages. But you can have a small especially made train, like the little steam train, if you get the message on this one. But if you do, you can't post it anywhere, don't write it down ok ? Anyone can join in too, if they get the message, and are sure (you'll know) you cannot say, but it's ok to email me and I'll tell you if you are correct, but only if you're not sure. I'll award little trains for anyone who can tell me they know AND keep the secret, on their honor, ok ? Remember, only if you are feeling well. ok ? This is the page.
Baiting and blocksI noticed your comment elsewhere on baiting and blocks. I don't want to comment there, as there are more than enough people getting worked up over that matter, but one of the reasons blocks aren't usually issued for baiting is that it is something seen in the eye of the beholder. What is baiting to one person will be robust discourse to another person. I personally would be very wary of any definition of baiting that didn't take this into account. A common pattern is for two editors to have an argument, and when one editor doesn't like what is being said, they get upset. Then others arrive and accuse the other editor of baiting the first one because that editor has got upset. Especially if a block has resulted, the 'etiquette' seems to be that rather than try and talk it out and sort out differences, the editor accused of baiting has to stay well away (because if they dare try and say anything even if trying to apologise or correct something or respond to an unfair allegation against them, they will be accused of yet more baiting, so they can't win either way), and the blocked editor is left with only a self-reinforcing group of sympathisers who spend time commiserating with them. My view is that too many people descending on a situation like that just makes things worse and all perspective is lost. Far better to limit the discussion to a few people and let them try and sort out their differences. Doing that in a crowd of other comments is almost impossible. This is one of the reasons why ANI threads often fail to reach resolution, and it is also a reason why user talk pages that are heavily watched by those sympathetic to that user can act like echo chambers. It can be very intimidating to want to say something contrary to the prevailing mood, but knowing that all the others posting there will in all likelihood just shout you down. Which goes back again to my view that user talk pages should be for brief messages and small discussions only, not big group discussions. Carcharoth ( talk) 14:50, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
User_talk:Courcelles recallHello. User:BarkingFish has backed out of the recall as the initiator and asked that someone else fill his position. Could you please consider taking the role as the initiator rather than a certifier? I am not even sure a new initiator is needed at the moment, but if a recall were to progress it would probably be less controversial if there were someone in that role.--v/r - T P 20:41, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
On the question of mentoring, I really wonder if something has been missed here. Blocks of Malleus, and (to a much more limited extent) blocks of KW, are instantly taken from "someone chooses to block" to "OMG someone will now de-admin themselves to remove the block", or at least some similar huge fuss and lack of consensus. With other editors who display similar lack of maturity or potty-mouth syndrome, a whole flock of people appear, helpfully suggesting that the block should be lifted without (m)any conditions other than an agreement to mentoring from an experienced editor, and the block is soon lifted with consensus and happy twittering. But when it's Malleus or KW who get blocked, this option is off the cards? I think both or either of them could learn a lot from being mentored by a calmer editor, for example Worm, who is already recognised and applauded for his work in dealing with editors who are constructive and have good faith, but lack maturity and the ability to contribute collaboratively. He might be able to work wonders - assuming he has time! -- Demiurge1000 ( talk) 22:10, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
{( talk page stalker):::::Probably one of the most incendiary and, with all due respect, inane suggestions I have seen in a long time. For one thing, he is old enough to be one of Pesky's grandchildren's grandfather. I think you need to read a lot more of the background - several years - before throwing suggestions of lack or maturity and mentoring around. Just saying. Leaky Caldron 22:41, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
Hey, everyone, group hug? I can see why each of you is getting a bit het-up here, and I think it's probably one of those basic communication-misunderstanding things. I can see why Demi's words might come across as patronising, ill-thought-out, all that stuff, but I can also see through to what is actually meant, with all of you. All of you have the best of intentions in your hearts here, but, among us, we have some alternative-interpretations of some of the nuances of the words. I don't think Demi means the words in quite the way that they've been understood, but I can see that everyone here is meaning good things. The word "immature" gets used an awful lot as a cover-word for concepts that are hard to word really precisely (yes, it's mis-used in that way, but it's mis-used so commonly that its virtually "in common usage" with the other, nebulous, wossname-thingie which needs a different word, which is hard to think of ....) Please be gentle with each other; you're all good people :o) I can't think of a word for what it is that I try to do, but "mentor" doesn't quite fit the bill. I think the nearest I can get is just plain, old-fashioned, simple "friend". And sometimes I come across as the most unfriendly, nasty thing there can be. With 'celles, all I think is that he should re-run a re-confirmatory RfA, kinda-thing, possibly. I can't explain exactly why, it's too complex for my morphined brain to put into words. Pesky ( talk) 07:09, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
Demi, big smack! Assume the position; that was unworthy of you. :o(
Pesky (
talk)
08:36, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
I don't want anybody to fight here, at all, ever, but I would like people to be able to discuss ideas in an understanding way, trying to see deep into the heart of the person behind the idea, and putting all negative emotions aside for the duration ... fat chance! People are emotional things, and WP editors are passionately emotional people. Could we end this section here ... how I see it (in my own bizarre way, which of course I can't guarantee is right) is below. Pesky ( talk) 08:33, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
Big waffly essay on how I see itAs we get older, we learn that people don't always physically see and hear things the same way we do. We learn that people can be blind, or long-sighted, or short-sighted, or colour-blind, or whatever ... or that we are, and other people have 20/20 vision. As we get older, we learn that dogs have a sense of smell thousands (millions?) of times more acute than ours is, and that they can probably "see" the world of scent in as much vivid detail as we see the world of light. We can watch them doing this, finding and tracking things using scents hours or days old. These are learned things. But we rarely ever get the opportunity to learn that the human mind is just the same in its variations as the human body is. We rarely (if ever) get "officially taught" to internalise the concept that minds have different capabilities, and that we can't expect people to be able to do everything that we can do. It's obvious to us that someone can't help not being as tall as us, or as slim as us, or having colour-blindness, or a different colour hair, and that it doesn't mean they are deliberately setting out to be annoying or irritating or could "get better if they only tried to". We've learned not to get angry with someone for being less physically able than we are due to some physical limitation. A trapeze artist in a circus can see quite clearly that most people can't do what he does, and that most people probably can't ever learn to do what he does. It's not just a matter of "trying harder" or "learning skills". A chunkily-built and inherently unsupple person is never, never going to be able to learn to be a consummately-skilled trapeze artist. and they can't help it. They're not doing it on purpose to annoy the trapeze artist. That's just the way they are. Some people with outstanding brains (and I'm including Malleus and Kiefer here, as well as several others) just hagve trouble understanding that when someone is seeming to be so bloody stupid, arseholeish, pathetic and all that, there's a good chance that they can't help it. Some people are just naturally lacking in what it takes to see right through to what is so clear, and so obvious, to people like MF and KW, and it really feels as though they must be doing it on purpose. (Of course, sometimes some of them are. But not all of them, all of the time.) When you really feel that someone is going out of their way to be obnoxious, it makes you angry. That's normal. It's a normal human reaction. All that people with truly outstanding and right-at-the-end-of-the-bell-curve minds, which think in less-than-usual ways, which have lightning-fast comprehension and clarity in some areas, need to do, is to remember that "normal" people can't help not having the same kind of brain. If we/they tweaked the perception a smidge and decided to view "normal people" as being "comparatively disabled" instead (they can't help it), maybe the anger and irritation would take much, much longer to kick in. People with truly outstanding minds and thought-processes tend to think that what they are is normal, on an internalised level. Minds are invisible. We can't see the differences, and we having nothing, nothing whatever, in our own experience, to compare them with. Pesky ( talk) 08:33, 11 April 2012 (UTC) Malleus and Kiefer (and others like you): you have the ability to "see" mentally with the naked eye (as it were) things that other people can't see without an electron microscope. You can see why something is areseholish. But not everyone else can do that. People genuinely can't see why what they did is arseholish or cuntish. They can't see it any more easily than red-green colour-blind people can see the numbers in those colour-blindness tests ... which means that, when they can't see it, they can't ever understand why what seemed perfectly OK to them is not perfectly OK to others. They just don;t have the perception that you have. Pesky ( talk) 08:46, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
Philosophy for today - words chain usAll a word is, is a kind of label for a concept, and concepts are incredibly complex things with rainbow-colours of harmonics around them. A word is never big enough, full enough, to describe the concept. It's a convenience label, a kind of shorthand-wossname, and the same "label" can be a convenience label for a whole heap of concepts, of each of which it only highlights one small facet. Words are supposed to facilitate our understanding, deeply, of things. But, so often, instead of doing that, all they do is chain us in, remove the rainbow-hued, multi-faceted, multi-tonal wholeness of the concept. All cats are mammals, but not all mammals are cats. Cats have a whole mass of things in common with dogs, but they're not dogs. A word doesn't really cut it, apart from when it's something like "cat", when everyone understands the wholeness of the concept of "cat". And people have different experiences of cats, which colours their own personal understanding of what "cat" means. It has differing emotional values. Some people hear the word, or think "cat", and feel full of cuddly affection. Some feel filled with hatred, contempt, or terror. If the word "cat" (and all its synonyms) hadn't been invented, nor the noun for any other of the small furry mammals, it would be really hard to describe a cat in such a way that your description couldn't also mean "dog", or "rabbit", or "fox". You can make it more easy by saying "it makes a noise like meow". Fine - that makes it clearer. But there's a whole lot more to the difference between a cat and a dog than a "meow" or a "woof". "It's fluffy." Yes, lots of things are fluffy. Some of those things are cats. Dammit, a slice of mouldy bread is "fluffy" or "furry", but it's a different kind of furry, without the connotations of "cuddly"! Adjectives are bastards, really, because they can apply to so many, many different things. Most concepts can only be described well by a noun which means exactly that thing and nothing else. And most of the nouns haven't been invented, and never will be. This is what chains us. An adjective can restrict our perception, instead of enhancing it the way it should do. It's when adjectives start to be used as nouns, as labels, that we fall foul of this one. Pesky ( talk) 07:33, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
Expanding: you know that game "Twenty Questions"? If you don't here's a rough idea. A person thinks of a "thing", and the rest have to guess what it is, just by asking questions about it, with yes/no answers (and often you can;t even give a yes/no, it's more of a "sometimes" or "could be".) If you play it properly, and don't allow anything apart from "yes" or "no", the asker loses out on that turn to ask a question. Often it starts with the "thing" being roughly categorised into animal, vegetable, mineral, or abstract. Questions can be things like "Is it shiny?" "Is it hard?" "Is it bigger than a football?" You can tweak the game by allowing unlimited questions, not just twenty, in which the askers have to guess what you meant. And sometimes you can ask a hundred or more questions, and still nobody has guessed correctly. That's how complex a noun is. And if you play the advanced game, questions aren't allowed to use nouns themselves, so you can't get into a fractal-type classification system by asking "Is it an emotion?" or "Is it a mammal?" Pesky ( talk) 07:49, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
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Hello Pesky. We obviously disagree strongly on the Courcelles issue, but leaving that to one side, I was wondering if your relationship with Abhijay/Soviet King extends to formal mentoring, or just informal advice. I'm not sure if you've had a chance yet to see this — do we think it's a good idea for SK to be getting involved in adminny stuff when he himself doesn't exactly have a great recent past? — Strange Passerby ( talk • cont) 12:03, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
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The Brilliant Idea Barnstar |
For your comments here and here that proved to be not only the inspiration for the solution, but a blue-print for it as well. Thanks for helping us think outside the box! — GabeMc ( talk) 21:45, 25 April 2012 (UTC) |
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![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 5 | ← | Archive 9 | Archive 10 | Archive 11 | Archive 12 | Archive 13 | → | Archive 15 |
Hello, and thanks again for taking part in the MedCab mediation about Wikipedia:Verifiability. I noticed that you haven't yet submitted a draft of the lede as I outlined in the instructions for step two, so I am just sending this message as a reminder. The deadline was 10:00 am (UTC) on Sunday, March 11, but as there are still eight drafts left to come in I am extending this by a day, to 10:00 am (UTC) on Monday, March 12. To recap, I would like you to draft your ideal version of the lead to the policy and post it on the mediation page, without any commentary. You can find the full instructions at Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/27 February 2012/Wikipedia:Verifiability#Step two. Please let me know if you have any questions, and I would especially appreciate you getting in touch if you may have difficulty meeting the new deadline. Best wishes — Mr. Stradivarius ♫ 13:54, 11 March 2012 (UTC)
Hi Pesky, I wondered if you saw this tip about Alexander's BA thesis? I'd follow it up myself, but I seem to be having a bit of a break at the mo. It occurs to me that, if Alexander's BA thesis isn't properly published (and it'd be unusual if it was, obv), it can't be cited on WP – but it would still be great to have sight of it! Also, Alexander should've cited his sources, so they can be cited – even via the BA thesis I'd have thought, e.g. per WP:SAYWHEREYOUGOTIT…? I've never done that before (i.e. "citation–>unpublished thesis–>RS"), and someone (i.e. not me!) might have something to say about it, but I don't think it'd be unreasonable...? Dunno, really, but anyway fingers crossed that we can get a copy somehow. Hope you're ok. Nortonius ( talk) 12:44, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
Don't be obsessively clean! ... things could get worse than you think ... it's not just a waste of soap! Pesky ( talk) 14:00, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
Hi Pesky, looks like the draft at wt:civ brought forth some discussion, which is good. Getting back to what is supposed to be happening at User:Ched Davis/civility sandbox I suggest we need to put more thought into the style of writing, or styles of writing which are best suited for the composition of Polpages like wp:civ. Have you looked at for instance Help:Wikipedia: The Missing Manual? I have and at this time, not overly impressed with the style of the writing there. Seems a bit dogmatic, a bit sort of advertisy, a bit sort of close and personal without much personality. Maybe I am just hard to please. Lot of good info there, quite comprehensive, so I oughtn't complain, but kinda dissapointingly dullsville, like it came from an advertising agency, rather than real people. You interested in taking a look? Cheers NewbyG ( talk) 12:41, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
( ←) Just noting more worthwhile discussion is occurring at wt:civ where you are getting some good riffs off. Now someone mentioned wp:BEANS, and I was put in mind of this gem of a comment Ahh yes, posting... it here brings it to the attention of maybe a hundred times more people, of whom some don't know what they're doing, and some would be better off not doing what they do! LOL NewbyG ( talk) 02:14, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
I watch (Ched's page and) your determination towards more civility with pleasure. I started the other end, same direction, perhaps you want to join there. The one who framed Geometry guy's wise statement, -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 10:39, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
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inspiration of civility |
Thank you for speaking up for civility, decency and fairness, treating editors as living people, -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 10:58, 14 March 2012 (UTC) |
Awww, thanks! Pesky ( talk) 11:25, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
Wheeeee! I have a date with my favourite neurosurgeon – in just under two weeks' time! I have been waiting far too long for this, already; the damned glitchiness of constant neuropathic pain, loss of sensation when I do need it, compromised motor function over about a sixth of my body, and all that goes with it, has been causing me so many hassles ... it will be just great to have my neck sliced open, pulled around, drilled and re-bored, and generally mangled ;P Pesky ( talk) 13:17, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
I couldn't agree more. Without the NHS, (a) I would be dead, and (b) I would be crippled if I weren't dead. I've almost lost count of the number of surgeries I've had (just to give you guys an idea, this will the the 14th in 3 years), and every single one of them has had a major positive impact on my quality of life / health. If I had been in the US, no insurance company would have given me cover, I don't think. And as for the Empire, if you look around the world today and see just how much is owed to the Empire of the past, you'd have to be singularly unobservant not to appreciate the impact the Brits have had. Phenomenal. I don;t know quite what it is about the Brits, but we are different in some fundamental ways. Whether it's because we're island people, or because we're descended from so many different adventurous / invasive / innovative and downright courageous stock, or a combination of a hundred different things, I have no idea. But we are distinctive. (And, of course, we're the bestest ;P ) The horsey people will know just how much British horse and pony breeds have affected horses around the world. I think only the Arab / Arabian has had more global impact than the British breeds. (And the Iberian breeds are the next in terms of global impact, I think.) And we're a set of comparatively tiny islands. Wow. Just wow. Pesky ( talk) 11:08, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
That must have been incredible.
'Bout time too, with this op - as of this afternoon, the whole top of my left arm wants to just hang there like a dead thing; I'm currently having to type with my left foot propped up, so that I can prop up my left arm on my leg, just to keep my left hand at keyboard level :o( Tried to turn of a light switch just now, and you would not believe the effort it took to do it. Bloody thing ... Pesky ( talk) 23:56, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
For making Your dwelling in hearts broken by hardship and sorrow. Nowhere is Your healing presence so evident as in the place of pain and suffering.
That's terrific news! Sorry for not seeing this sooner, but at least the surgery is fairly close by the time this comment has landed. :P Hugs and best wishes, wctaiwan ( talk) 16:11, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
Hi there Pesky. I am involved in an argument at the Great Dismal Swamp maroons article involving the use of caps for the word "maroons". If you are interested you may see the discussion I opened on the talk page. I come to you because you have been around the Wikipedia block so many times that you may be aware of where I can go for help. I'm often willing to go with the flow, trusting group wisdom, but once and a while I do dig my heals in and this is one of those times. Any suggestions about where I may find Wikipedia-use-of-caps in this particular situation? Thanks, Gandy Gandydancer ( talk) 19:14, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
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Like you need this, I sure don'tI've got a history with this editor and so I think someone with a slower pulse should handle further discussion: Talk:English_saddle#Any_editors_here_ever_hear_of_.22references.22.3F Montanabw (talk) 19:15, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
Samuraiantiqueworld ( talk) 20:46, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
Samuraiantiqueworld ( talk) 06:46, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
Samuraiantiqueworld ( talk) 08:21, 17 March 2012 (UTC) ![]() |
... but they'll probably re-stock soon. Pesky ( talk) 20:33, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
(This is in response to the following comment, which was placed on my talk page)
I just noticed your comment at AN/I that you have Asberger's; I'm a high-functioning autistic myself, and I personally know quite a few other Wikpedians who inhabit the grey areas of the autism spectrum. (Several of whom stalk my talk!)
You're always welcome to wander over in my direction; we're an odd bunch around my talk page, but a supportive bunch. As well as being an HFA myself, I've also professionally taught Aspies, Auties, a huge range of others (including non-Autie geniuses!), so I'm really happy to help out with any tips or even just moral support you might want from time to time. All the best, Pesky ( talk) 23:51, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
Sorry to have drawn a certain editor to your user page. You handled it well, though. You see why I needed to stay out, no idea how to handle something like that. Montanabw (talk) 04:52, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
I've asked a totally uninvolved and good-egg admin if they could possibly have a look at the over-all situation (I particularly didn't like the stalking / hounding aspect) and, if they see fit, just have a nice, gentle few words with the editor concerned to try and nip this stuff in the bud before they end up at RfC/U or AN/I; good to stop / de-escalate dramahz before it gets too out of hand, and a fresh pair of eyes with no likelihood of being accused of cliquey affiliations might do the trick. Pesky ( talk) 09:49, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
Hi Pesky,
You seem to have offered to take him under your wing, so I want to give you a heads up, and you can handle it any way you want to, including ignoring it. I'm not going to post it to his talk page, because I have a feeling it would stir things up, but you're welcome to simply point him to this if you think it useful. Or delete it.
On reflection, I think we admins seriously dropped the ball here, and FLM should have been blocked. This is not an otherwise good content creator with a potty mouth, this is someone who, so far, seems to see everything here as a battle, and is clearly violating NPA. I'm not a civility cop, and the problem is not being cranky or a bit rude, but actively making numerous attacks on others. This was not a rocky start, this was a train wreck, and about 90% due to FLM's attitude, not his newness. I worry that not being blocked sent him the wrong signal. You should be aware that I am not looking for slow steady improvement in his behavior, I am looking for a very, very rapid turnaround in his behavior, with zero personal attacks on other editors going forward, or i will be indef blocking the account.
I appreciate you're trying to salvage something here, and I'm sorry I'm not giving you the breathing room you might like, but the targets of his ire have put up with more than their share already, and they will not be putting up with any more of it.
I haven't forgotten that I owe you a look-see about another issue. -- Floquenbeam ( talk) 14:29, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
I looked at your other issue a little, at first glance it seems like one of those intractable problems that Wikipedia is truly excellent at generating. I think there are issues from both parties, and some portion of "blame" not necessarily equally distributed. I'm not convinced everyone involved will value my feedback. I'll look at it a little more, but it might be one of those "ignore it and pray it goes away by itself, even though you know in your heart it won't" things. -- Floquenbeam ( talk) 15:28, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
Yup, twat means just the same thing, as does prat, and fanny (which means arse, I think, in the US. Sorry, that would be "ass", which means idiot or Equinus asinus here in the UK). I think the thing is that we Brits are just much more laid-back about using cusswords – they really don't have the nastiness over here that they do in the US. If a relatively-educated person here in the UK wants to be really, really insulting, we seem to resort to that icily cutting soul-undermining politeness, uttered in a clipped and posh-as-possible voice (the "telephone voice", perhaps), which we would never use to a friend. Apart from Biggles, who almost always says things tersely, and usually while waggling a finger. And yes, it's the morphine again! Pesky ( talk) 20:01, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
Hi Pesky! Thanks for your input in the mediation - it's always nice to see your comments. :) Now I know that you said you weren't going to submit a draft for step two, but would you be willing to just point me to a version that somebody else drafted, that you think is rather good? I want to do this for the sake of trying to treat everyone equally, and also to satisfy my curiosity about where everyone stands on the issues involved. I'm not cold-hearted enough to make it absolutely mandatory though, so I'll understand if you don't want to, especially with your date coming up. ;) There are a lot of good drafts out there already, both in the mediation archive and in the WT:V archives, so you shouldn't be stuck for choice! You don't have to do it straight away, either - just when you have a spare moment will be fine. And if you have any questions, just let me know. Best — Mr. Stradivarius ♫ 15:47, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
I noticed this. It was very kind of you to try to help. Anything you can do to turn this editor around and harness some of that energy towards something good, will be very much appreciated. Thanks for going the extra mile. -- John ( talk) 22:24, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
I think of you as 'Ebu', it's a cultural term, in a machine translation it might mean a woman who is the speakers senior, which misses the real meaning of a wise and respected grandmother, but then, some things are lost in translation because the community's pervasive attitude of respect for your elders in one community is bankrupt in another. But if I say 'Ebu Pesky' or 'bu' (pron. Boo) I know you'll understand me.
"No Wikpedian chooses to be blocked; that's a decision which others make for them. And even when consensus says this should be reviewed, or changed, it seems there is nowhere to go; and, not knowing what to do, people just give up trying. They "wander off"."
Yes, but add to that the very many people who watch the highway. They see it is no place to stand and do not venture onto it. Every time I/we/all see a car crash, I/we/all think it is pointless to put in any effort to this project. It is a fair thought. One kumioko incident produces many many casualties and injuries.
I see a path to change, but often I can't say ahead of time what is ahead. People need to be led closer so they will be able to see the idea for themselves, or they will resist going to a place that they'd quite like if they actually got there. So many times, my ideas look a lot like green eggs and ham.
So to go slowly. The tribe sees the lost, and want to speak in support. The lost see the template, and most some see it as more blatant than it is, as a block template speaks with the voice of the wide community.
Should it be made so that it draws back the curtain and people can see the wizard ?
Can I make anims to help your HFA project ? I like anims lately. I can do much better than these just say ideas or words or images or concepts, just the first 10 or 20 silly things that come into your head when I say HFA will do fine. Penyulap ☏ 10:01, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
Those anims are awesome! I can't easily think of concepts for illustrating the thought-processing differences between Autism-spectrum people and non-auties which would work as anims, though. I find it easy to create parallels like my varying-types-of-colour-blindness one, or the sound one: think of a piece of music with the treble turned right up and the bass very muted, compared with the same piece of music the other way up, if you see what I mean; it's the same piece of music, with all the same tracks, but it sounds completely different. It all depends on which parts of it you pick up on, and which don't really get through. A-spectrum vs. neurotypical thought processing is just like that. Pesky ( talk) 05:57, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
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The Ass Award |
I return the favor of your ass with a nice intergluteal cleft. Thank you so much for expanding the zoo on my user page. Drmies ( talk) 16:23, 22 March 2012 (UTC) |
ROFL! I thought you'd like my cute little ass ;P Pesky ( talk) 16:31, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
... brush your teeth with an electric toothbrush, while looking at an LED number display (microwave, cooker, clock radio, etc.) Coolio! Who needs 'shrooms?! Pesky ( talk) 23:49, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
diff on my talk page Check the "Line 1" modification. The editor knew very well how I'd feel. Goodbye! -- "DrYouMe"→"Mrt3366" (Talk?) 05:41, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
I'm sure that once you've "found your feet" here you'll get on just fine; being a newbie is very hard, it's a very steep learning curve. But our really passionate newbies (and often those who get into a pickle because of their passion when they're new) often turn out to be our most outstanding editors :D Pesky ( talk) 08:36, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
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14:18, 24 March 2012 (UTC) Done
Mother decided she wanted the pond's waterfall to flow faster. The tap is down on the pump, at the bottom of the pond. So I reached my arm as long as it would go, and then leaned over just a bit more ... and fell in!
An English garden pond is a very cold place in March! Pesky ( talk) 14:33, 24 March 2012 (UTC)
Ideally you want to build up a little mini ecosystem in the pond, so a selection of pond plants helps to encourage little mini-beasties in which eat even minier-beasties and algae. Several tench (and no, ours haven't grown to ridiculous sizes!) "hoover up" stuff from the bottom as well; and we have a selection of "decorative" fish. Different types have different food preferences, so if you have quite a few different types, among them all they'll eat a lot of things which would otherwise try to invade and take over. I also have a breeding farm for live fish food (brine shrimp, glassworms, tubifex worms and daphnia), which is basically a big dustbin filled with pond water, with a couple of oxygenating plants, into which I chucked a starter stock of live food. They just breed in there without predators, and I grab a bucketful of that and chuck it in amongst the marginal plants in the pond every couple of days, which adds to the things which eat algae, diatoms etc. And the fish eat them, which is why I breed them in a separate area. Pond snails do help keep algae (blanket weed) off the sides, but they actually prefer to eat the plants which you want to keep!
The only problem we've had was an invasion of blanket weed, but products to zap it aren't expensive, and work well. Pesky ( talk) 05:48, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
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Thought I'd reply here... as I've made my point over there. Sure, I was mildly baiting MF, but that was in response to him randomly picking a fight with me at ANI - when that discussion was closed, I took it to his page. Without referring to you, it alarms me somewhat that an editor's disgraceful conduct is overlooked because he might be a "nice guy really" or do some good somewhere else. He tells people to eff off, calls people playground names and has been blocked for it over a dozen times. To be roundly criticised by a number of editors who a) had absolutely nothing to do with the discussion in hand, and b) are probably old enough to know better is a rum affair. As I say, no criticism of you, but if someone can't control his own puerile conduct, then he deserves the occasional ribbing at the very least. I'd have to get up very early in the morning to come anywhere near his violations of WP:CIVIL. Cheers, Bretonbanquet ( talk) 13:27, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
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I am still alive ! I woke up hours ago, I'm not entirely happy with the work (I can already tell it's not done properly, because standards here are poor and they wouldn't listen to me). But I am ok ! (alive)
It was weird, I didn't like the tube into the hand. I don't like that at all. They left it there for ages before taking me to the theatre, and I didn't like that at all. They 'snuck' the anesthetic into it I think, but am not sure, because I remember leaving for the theater, but the memory gap begins before arriving in the theatre.
The whole thing was weird, if I can / could choose, I'd not have it in the same country again. But at least 1/2 the operation was completed ? I don't know if I should be happy or grumpy. Maybe 1/2 and 1/2 ? My friend here thinks I am complaining, I don't know. (he didn't have 1/2 an op though) Penyulap ☏ 11:04, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
Back at home to lick wounds. I remember they pulled some tube out of my nose (yuk) while I was just waking up. I woke up fighting actually. As soon I was awake i was signing(talking) with one hand before the rest could move, and within a minute or 5 I was pulling out that nasty thing in the back of my hand. It wasn't a needle, there was a long thin tube inside the skin. It was like that movie Aliens it was disgusting to have something inside me like that, I peeled off the tape and pulled it out. it was like an inch long, or maybe my memory distorts the length, but it must have been at least 15mm, and probably a mm wide and yuk. Even though the Aliens in that movie seem worse to you, it doesn't to me, cause the aliens are on tv and that thing was in my hand. Haven't you had nasty parts too Pesky? there has to be some things that make you eewew. but not to think about, I don't like to think of it. I want to go to bed now and sleep I think (soon). Penyulap ☏ 11:45, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
Penyulap, sleep, and sleep, and then sleep more. It's a good thing to do, after anaesthesia. But, between sleeps, get up and move around so you avoid the possibilities of getting clots, and drink as much watery-based drinks as you can bear to pour down your throat. And remember that pain-killers were invented for a reason – in this day and age, there's just no reason to put up with pain when you don't have to. @Malleus, it's not permitted to ship shrooms around the country other than for research purposes, so if you want to sample the local cuisine, you have to pick your own! And then eat them in situ ... Pesky ( talk) 07:22, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
I did sleep today, during the afternoon, for another reason. When I was waking up, I had dreamt that I was editing, although I can't remember where on wiki. I looked for the mouse, which I was sure was just in my hand. While I was waking up slowly, I thought the mouse was in the bed with me in my hand. It wasn't. That is what really happened. but for a " Mythbusters" version, with something I found, and I edit spaceflight articles mostly, I dreamt that space agencies had sent teams of engineers to my bathroom, and they were assembling a satellite on the bathroom floor, of course satellite are bigger than bathrooms, but this one was scaled down, along with the engineers. The satellite was a blue cylindrical one with deep blue colored solar panels all around it, and it was on the floor amongst the porcelain of the bathroom fittings. The engineers would walk up to it and touch it with probes, they were dressed all in white or all in yellow with facemasks and suits that completely covered their heads. They carried test instruments with long curly cords connecting to the test probes. I like that dream better, because it comes with a real picture complete with miniature engineers. Penyulap ☏ 11:22, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
I just looked at aliens film article, bad idea, it scared me a heap as soon as i got down as far as the one on the face and stuff around there. ARGH! Not a good idea. Surgery + things inside your veins + aliens article + mouthful of blood = BAD IDEA!!!!! I goto bed. Penyulap ☏ 11:50, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
Hi Pesky, I heard that you recently went through some health related issues - and I wanted to pass along my prayers, and best wishes that everything is working out well. Sending some Gampa hugz, and a few wolfie kisses your way. Hope all is well. — Ched : ? 12:04, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
Good to hear that the surgery has gone well and that you're bouncing back. Best wishes, Pam D 13:07, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
P.S. My good source books are all in storage, but, if I remember, I will have a look around for some more sources. Pesky ( talk) 08:32, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
...but I am reasonably confident he was just trying to use that as a shield from criticism. Which, IMHO, is fairly reprehensible. Still, I'll keep it in mind if I run into something similar again. -- Floquenbeam ( talk) 14:27, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
Adding: If he's a "wriggler" who looks for loopholes to do what he wants to do anyway, just don't leave him a millimetre of wriggle-room. Instead of using words like "should", "shouldn't", "best not to", etc., be absolutely uncompromising "do", "don't", "never", etc. Pesky ( talk) 07:28, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
Hey thanks for the reply on my talk page for your comment. I will take them into consideration. Still, I realise that I shouldn't have used my disability as an excuse to get away with what I wanted because It pissed of Floquenbeam, and Strange Passerby at the same time. It was a bit tad far and I apologize for the inconvenience and the disruption caused. I realize that my actions could affect the other people around me. IF you think I am going to use this all the time to get away with what I want, please note that I do all I can to try not to do such a thing. If there's anymore I feel unaware of, can I come and ask you for guidance? If so, Thanks and Happy End of March. :) Soviet King ( talk) 10:07, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
Hello Pesky, this is just to let you know that to help find compromise drafts at the verifiability mediation, I would like each mediation participant to submit at least one draft at one work group that includes the best of all the previously submitted drafts of that work group. This will probably make more sense if you look at this section on the mediation page, but if anything is still unclear, just let me know. Best regards — Mr. Stradivarius ♫ 17:36, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
I made a pic for you pesky. I started off thinking how your mods are sort of like the android technology, and then I came across a texture for an android eye, and added it to another image, but it went off in a totally not you direction, but ok for an actual wikibot. But then I saw this sprightly lass, and thought yep, that's pesky. Unless it's like one of those can't get out of bed feeling too creaky days, then there are other ways to feel. HAHA just kidding. Actually I feel that way about 30 % of days when I walk (but only for a while). But I'm ok. You're ok too I do hope. Penyulap ☏ 13:52, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
I'm glad you're beginning to feel better. Give it a fortnight or so, and you'll hardly know it was done. Pesky ( talk) 06:22, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
A caterpillar? Pesky ( talk) 17:38, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
Hello Pesky, this is another update about the verifiability mediation. We have now started step five, in which we will work towards deciding a final draft for each work group. I would like you to submit a statement about this - have a look at the mediation page to see the details of what you should include. The deadline for this step is 10.00 am on Friday 6th April (UTC), and unlike the other steps I am going to be strict about it. If you don't leave a statement by the deadline, then you won't be able to participate in steps six or seven. If you think you are going to be late turning in your statement, please let me know as soon as possible - I can't promise anything, but it will be much easier to work out alternative arrangements now than it would be after the deadline has passed. Best regards — Mr. Stradivarius ♫ 17:43, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
Hey! Big update on what the developers have been working on, and what is coming up:
coding
All other elements are either undergoing research, or about to have development started. I appreciate this sounds like we've not got through much work, and truthfully we're a bit disappointed with it as well; we thought we'd be going at a faster pace :(. Unfortunately there seems to be some 24-72 hour bug sweeping the San Francisco office at the moment, and at one time or another we've had several devs out of it. It's kind of messed with workflow.
Stuff to look at
We've got a pair of new mockups to comment on that deal with the filtering mechanism; this is a slightly updated mockup of the list view, and this is what the filtering tab is going to look like. All thoughts, comments and suggestions welcome on the NPT talkpage :). I'd also like to thank the people who came to our last two office hours sessions; the logs will be shortly available here.
I've also just heard that the first functional prototype for enwiki will be deployed mid-April! Really, really stoked to see this happening :). We're finding out if we can stick something up a bit sooner on prototype.wiki or something.
I appreciate there may be questions or suggestions where I've said "I'll find out and get back to you" and then, uh. not ;p. I sincerely apologise for that: things have been a bit hectic at this end over the last few weeks. But if you've got anything I've missed, drop me a line and I'll deal with it! Further questions or issues to the usual address. Thanks, Okeyes (WMF) ( talk) 17:06, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
So, motor function is back to all those muscles which had mega-reduced nerve input before the op. And, of course, since they haven't been working properly for months and months, they are all grossly unfit and soft. And I can't switch off the nerve supply to rest them!
So, my supraspinatus, infraspinatus, rhomboid, trapezius and part of the latissimus dorsi muscles have been merrily working away, non-stop, and now they are on fire and swelling up, just as you'd expect unfit muscles to be when you suddenly start remorselessly working them, non-stop! Arrrrrrrrggghhhhhhhh! Serious muscle pains! Pesky ( talk) 07:57, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
That's what I came for, about the UBX 4 HFA which is DOA ATM. I had been thinking to have a short sentence where words switched with synonym or pictures, the way a Rubik's Cube changes on it's face. So the same sentence presents the multitude. That was the idea, but I can't think of any decent sentences for it. I got excited when I saw that 3 people have chosen to use my ubx's. even though I hadn't really finished PenTrain properly at all, and though I better get to work, but the HFA I thought I better ask for help with on the ideas, as I was going nowhere. Penyulap ☏ 15:17, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
Hi! What didn't you like about Draft 0 of group 4? Regards, -- Bob K31416 ( talk) 21:23, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
Hi! I notice you added a notability concern tag to Years of Red Dust. The good news is I found that the New York Times book review wrote about this book. Want me to find more reviews? WhisperToMe ( talk) 07:57, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
![]() Dispute Resolution – Survey Invite Hello ThatPeskyCommoner. I am currently conducting a study on the dispute resolution processes on the English Wikipedia, in the hope that the results will help improve these processes in the future. Whether you have used dispute resolution a little or a lot, now we need to know about your experience. The survey takes around five minutes, and the information you provide will not be shared with third parties other than to assist in analyzing the results of the survey. No personally identifiable information will be released. Please click
HERE to participate. You are receiving this invitation because you have had some activity in dispute resolution over the past year. For more information, please see the associated research page. Steven Zhang DR goes to Wikimania! 11:19, 5 April 2012 (UTC) |
Done
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The Modest Barnstar | |
In recognition of all the work you’ve done lately! 66.87.2.116 ( talk) 13:49, 5 April 2012 (UTC) |
Haha! I've done so little work recently that I feel like a fraud with this on my page! Thanks, anyway! Pesky ( talk) 17:57, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
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The Very Modest Barnstar | |
In recognition of the little things that you do. Penyulap ☏ |
But I can't tell you which one is for what, because the little things that you do mean so much to me. They all seem so big to me! Penyulap ☏
It left the
cute
little barnstars in my
mind
. So it was a perfect fit to my vocabulary to say what I wanted to say.
It was on the tip of my tongue.
but it turned out that I couldn't do that big image within my attention span so I adjusted my aim to do a faster compound image instead. That worked out to illustrate the same idea I wanted to say, it also left the barnstars on the loose. I still haven't brushed up on how to do the text all around the pics, not priority. Penyulap ☏
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I haz a new essay!Read it at WP:AUTIE! Nice, kind, constructive comments welcome. The other sort probably not so much. Pesky ( talk) 07:59, 6 April 2012 (UTC) ![]()
Brilliant! Hey, but you forgot one thing ..... when your train is going from right to left, your name is back to front on it! You need to edit those few frames so it's the right way around :o)
Pesky (
talk)
20:35, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
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15:18, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
A train for you, if you get the message on this one.You saw the message written on the fast train, well the message with this train is quite different, but you have to have good internet I think or it is a bit jerky and won't display correct, I'm not too sure.
I put it on a separate page, because I noticed before when I was doing some machinima for someone's userbox that long videos choke the user talkpages. But you can have a small especially made train, like the little steam train, if you get the message on this one. But if you do, you can't post it anywhere, don't write it down ok ? Anyone can join in too, if they get the message, and are sure (you'll know) you cannot say, but it's ok to email me and I'll tell you if you are correct, but only if you're not sure. I'll award little trains for anyone who can tell me they know AND keep the secret, on their honor, ok ? Remember, only if you are feeling well. ok ? This is the page.
Baiting and blocksI noticed your comment elsewhere on baiting and blocks. I don't want to comment there, as there are more than enough people getting worked up over that matter, but one of the reasons blocks aren't usually issued for baiting is that it is something seen in the eye of the beholder. What is baiting to one person will be robust discourse to another person. I personally would be very wary of any definition of baiting that didn't take this into account. A common pattern is for two editors to have an argument, and when one editor doesn't like what is being said, they get upset. Then others arrive and accuse the other editor of baiting the first one because that editor has got upset. Especially if a block has resulted, the 'etiquette' seems to be that rather than try and talk it out and sort out differences, the editor accused of baiting has to stay well away (because if they dare try and say anything even if trying to apologise or correct something or respond to an unfair allegation against them, they will be accused of yet more baiting, so they can't win either way), and the blocked editor is left with only a self-reinforcing group of sympathisers who spend time commiserating with them. My view is that too many people descending on a situation like that just makes things worse and all perspective is lost. Far better to limit the discussion to a few people and let them try and sort out their differences. Doing that in a crowd of other comments is almost impossible. This is one of the reasons why ANI threads often fail to reach resolution, and it is also a reason why user talk pages that are heavily watched by those sympathetic to that user can act like echo chambers. It can be very intimidating to want to say something contrary to the prevailing mood, but knowing that all the others posting there will in all likelihood just shout you down. Which goes back again to my view that user talk pages should be for brief messages and small discussions only, not big group discussions. Carcharoth ( talk) 14:50, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
User_talk:Courcelles recallHello. User:BarkingFish has backed out of the recall as the initiator and asked that someone else fill his position. Could you please consider taking the role as the initiator rather than a certifier? I am not even sure a new initiator is needed at the moment, but if a recall were to progress it would probably be less controversial if there were someone in that role.--v/r - T P 20:41, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
On the question of mentoring, I really wonder if something has been missed here. Blocks of Malleus, and (to a much more limited extent) blocks of KW, are instantly taken from "someone chooses to block" to "OMG someone will now de-admin themselves to remove the block", or at least some similar huge fuss and lack of consensus. With other editors who display similar lack of maturity or potty-mouth syndrome, a whole flock of people appear, helpfully suggesting that the block should be lifted without (m)any conditions other than an agreement to mentoring from an experienced editor, and the block is soon lifted with consensus and happy twittering. But when it's Malleus or KW who get blocked, this option is off the cards? I think both or either of them could learn a lot from being mentored by a calmer editor, for example Worm, who is already recognised and applauded for his work in dealing with editors who are constructive and have good faith, but lack maturity and the ability to contribute collaboratively. He might be able to work wonders - assuming he has time! -- Demiurge1000 ( talk) 22:10, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
{( talk page stalker):::::Probably one of the most incendiary and, with all due respect, inane suggestions I have seen in a long time. For one thing, he is old enough to be one of Pesky's grandchildren's grandfather. I think you need to read a lot more of the background - several years - before throwing suggestions of lack or maturity and mentoring around. Just saying. Leaky Caldron 22:41, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
Hey, everyone, group hug? I can see why each of you is getting a bit het-up here, and I think it's probably one of those basic communication-misunderstanding things. I can see why Demi's words might come across as patronising, ill-thought-out, all that stuff, but I can also see through to what is actually meant, with all of you. All of you have the best of intentions in your hearts here, but, among us, we have some alternative-interpretations of some of the nuances of the words. I don't think Demi means the words in quite the way that they've been understood, but I can see that everyone here is meaning good things. The word "immature" gets used an awful lot as a cover-word for concepts that are hard to word really precisely (yes, it's mis-used in that way, but it's mis-used so commonly that its virtually "in common usage" with the other, nebulous, wossname-thingie which needs a different word, which is hard to think of ....) Please be gentle with each other; you're all good people :o) I can't think of a word for what it is that I try to do, but "mentor" doesn't quite fit the bill. I think the nearest I can get is just plain, old-fashioned, simple "friend". And sometimes I come across as the most unfriendly, nasty thing there can be. With 'celles, all I think is that he should re-run a re-confirmatory RfA, kinda-thing, possibly. I can't explain exactly why, it's too complex for my morphined brain to put into words. Pesky ( talk) 07:09, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
Demi, big smack! Assume the position; that was unworthy of you. :o(
Pesky (
talk)
08:36, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
I don't want anybody to fight here, at all, ever, but I would like people to be able to discuss ideas in an understanding way, trying to see deep into the heart of the person behind the idea, and putting all negative emotions aside for the duration ... fat chance! People are emotional things, and WP editors are passionately emotional people. Could we end this section here ... how I see it (in my own bizarre way, which of course I can't guarantee is right) is below. Pesky ( talk) 08:33, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
Big waffly essay on how I see itAs we get older, we learn that people don't always physically see and hear things the same way we do. We learn that people can be blind, or long-sighted, or short-sighted, or colour-blind, or whatever ... or that we are, and other people have 20/20 vision. As we get older, we learn that dogs have a sense of smell thousands (millions?) of times more acute than ours is, and that they can probably "see" the world of scent in as much vivid detail as we see the world of light. We can watch them doing this, finding and tracking things using scents hours or days old. These are learned things. But we rarely ever get the opportunity to learn that the human mind is just the same in its variations as the human body is. We rarely (if ever) get "officially taught" to internalise the concept that minds have different capabilities, and that we can't expect people to be able to do everything that we can do. It's obvious to us that someone can't help not being as tall as us, or as slim as us, or having colour-blindness, or a different colour hair, and that it doesn't mean they are deliberately setting out to be annoying or irritating or could "get better if they only tried to". We've learned not to get angry with someone for being less physically able than we are due to some physical limitation. A trapeze artist in a circus can see quite clearly that most people can't do what he does, and that most people probably can't ever learn to do what he does. It's not just a matter of "trying harder" or "learning skills". A chunkily-built and inherently unsupple person is never, never going to be able to learn to be a consummately-skilled trapeze artist. and they can't help it. They're not doing it on purpose to annoy the trapeze artist. That's just the way they are. Some people with outstanding brains (and I'm including Malleus and Kiefer here, as well as several others) just hagve trouble understanding that when someone is seeming to be so bloody stupid, arseholeish, pathetic and all that, there's a good chance that they can't help it. Some people are just naturally lacking in what it takes to see right through to what is so clear, and so obvious, to people like MF and KW, and it really feels as though they must be doing it on purpose. (Of course, sometimes some of them are. But not all of them, all of the time.) When you really feel that someone is going out of their way to be obnoxious, it makes you angry. That's normal. It's a normal human reaction. All that people with truly outstanding and right-at-the-end-of-the-bell-curve minds, which think in less-than-usual ways, which have lightning-fast comprehension and clarity in some areas, need to do, is to remember that "normal" people can't help not having the same kind of brain. If we/they tweaked the perception a smidge and decided to view "normal people" as being "comparatively disabled" instead (they can't help it), maybe the anger and irritation would take much, much longer to kick in. People with truly outstanding minds and thought-processes tend to think that what they are is normal, on an internalised level. Minds are invisible. We can't see the differences, and we having nothing, nothing whatever, in our own experience, to compare them with. Pesky ( talk) 08:33, 11 April 2012 (UTC) Malleus and Kiefer (and others like you): you have the ability to "see" mentally with the naked eye (as it were) things that other people can't see without an electron microscope. You can see why something is areseholish. But not everyone else can do that. People genuinely can't see why what they did is arseholish or cuntish. They can't see it any more easily than red-green colour-blind people can see the numbers in those colour-blindness tests ... which means that, when they can't see it, they can't ever understand why what seemed perfectly OK to them is not perfectly OK to others. They just don;t have the perception that you have. Pesky ( talk) 08:46, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
Philosophy for today - words chain usAll a word is, is a kind of label for a concept, and concepts are incredibly complex things with rainbow-colours of harmonics around them. A word is never big enough, full enough, to describe the concept. It's a convenience label, a kind of shorthand-wossname, and the same "label" can be a convenience label for a whole heap of concepts, of each of which it only highlights one small facet. Words are supposed to facilitate our understanding, deeply, of things. But, so often, instead of doing that, all they do is chain us in, remove the rainbow-hued, multi-faceted, multi-tonal wholeness of the concept. All cats are mammals, but not all mammals are cats. Cats have a whole mass of things in common with dogs, but they're not dogs. A word doesn't really cut it, apart from when it's something like "cat", when everyone understands the wholeness of the concept of "cat". And people have different experiences of cats, which colours their own personal understanding of what "cat" means. It has differing emotional values. Some people hear the word, or think "cat", and feel full of cuddly affection. Some feel filled with hatred, contempt, or terror. If the word "cat" (and all its synonyms) hadn't been invented, nor the noun for any other of the small furry mammals, it would be really hard to describe a cat in such a way that your description couldn't also mean "dog", or "rabbit", or "fox". You can make it more easy by saying "it makes a noise like meow". Fine - that makes it clearer. But there's a whole lot more to the difference between a cat and a dog than a "meow" or a "woof". "It's fluffy." Yes, lots of things are fluffy. Some of those things are cats. Dammit, a slice of mouldy bread is "fluffy" or "furry", but it's a different kind of furry, without the connotations of "cuddly"! Adjectives are bastards, really, because they can apply to so many, many different things. Most concepts can only be described well by a noun which means exactly that thing and nothing else. And most of the nouns haven't been invented, and never will be. This is what chains us. An adjective can restrict our perception, instead of enhancing it the way it should do. It's when adjectives start to be used as nouns, as labels, that we fall foul of this one. Pesky ( talk) 07:33, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
Expanding: you know that game "Twenty Questions"? If you don't here's a rough idea. A person thinks of a "thing", and the rest have to guess what it is, just by asking questions about it, with yes/no answers (and often you can;t even give a yes/no, it's more of a "sometimes" or "could be".) If you play it properly, and don't allow anything apart from "yes" or "no", the asker loses out on that turn to ask a question. Often it starts with the "thing" being roughly categorised into animal, vegetable, mineral, or abstract. Questions can be things like "Is it shiny?" "Is it hard?" "Is it bigger than a football?" You can tweak the game by allowing unlimited questions, not just twenty, in which the askers have to guess what you meant. And sometimes you can ask a hundred or more questions, and still nobody has guessed correctly. That's how complex a noun is. And if you play the advanced game, questions aren't allowed to use nouns themselves, so you can't get into a fractal-type classification system by asking "Is it an emotion?" or "Is it a mammal?" Pesky ( talk) 07:49, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
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Hello Pesky. We obviously disagree strongly on the Courcelles issue, but leaving that to one side, I was wondering if your relationship with Abhijay/Soviet King extends to formal mentoring, or just informal advice. I'm not sure if you've had a chance yet to see this — do we think it's a good idea for SK to be getting involved in adminny stuff when he himself doesn't exactly have a great recent past? — Strange Passerby ( talk • cont) 12:03, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
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The Brilliant Idea Barnstar |
For your comments here and here that proved to be not only the inspiration for the solution, but a blue-print for it as well. Thanks for helping us think outside the box! — GabeMc ( talk) 21:45, 25 April 2012 (UTC) |
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