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GameKeeper (
talk)
19:30, 1 April 2008 (UTC) .
I quite enjoyed it but its soon time for it to go. Uncyclopedia needs you! GameKeeper ( talk) 19:30, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
Permission from Alexa. Because Alexa Internet understands that we are an information resource, we are happy to have people refer to our data in their own work. As long as you credit us appropriately as the source, do not mis-represent the data or attribute Alexa Internet with your subsequent analysis thereof, please feel free to cite Alexa's information, including our charts and graphs, in your publications. There is no copyvio here. Can you please reconsider your vote? Anwar ( talk) 01:23, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
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The Barnstar of Good Humor | |
"Keep, it's a perfectly cromulent encyclopedia entry." Heh.-- Father Goose ( talk) 01:27, 12 April 2008 (UTC) |
Please stop. If you continue to
vandalize Wikipedia, as you did to
Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not, you will be
blocked from editing. You've been warned many times not to remove it.
Sceptre (
talk)
18:46, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
(outdent) Please read the thread again. I may have mispoke when I said "Do you notice all the people that said it belongs in WP:WAF and not a list of things Wikipedia is not?" And Taxman is against removing the Plot summaries section. However, Father Goose said "This is more a style issue than a content issue, so the appropriate place for it is arguably in a guideline, not in a content-exclusion policy." [1] , DGG said "More generally, NOT PLOT as it is written does not belong in NOT--policy should be general principles, not the details found there." [2] 23skidoo said "I agree with those who feel this is better suited for MoS rather than trying to pigeonhole it into a policy that, technically, is intended to supress content." [3] , Eubulide said "I object to treating plot details in a different way than other types of sourced information in WP." and "This is done only for plot summaries and nobody gave an explanation for this exception. If an article is missing real-world context, the reasonable approach is to add such context, not delete the rest." [4] , SmokeyJoe said "I think WP:NOT#PLOT, as written, belongs in WP:WAF." [5] , Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles said "We should remove the plot section of what Wikipedia is not." [6] , and Hobit said "I'll chime in by saying I don't think issues of plot summary should be here." [7]. Now you show me where there's consensus that plot-only stubs make Wikipedia an indiscriminate collection of information. -- Pixelface ( talk) 20:00, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
Your consistent removal and blanking of sections of the Wikipedia policy page, what wikipedia is not, is disruptive and unconstructive. Collected and civil discussion with the wider editorial community (that means talk page discussion, for the record) is the way to address qualms with the content of policy, not blanking and forcing through your opinion with reverting. I have blocked you for 12 hours; please do not disrupt Wikipedia. Anthøny 19:05, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
Pixelface ( block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser ( log))
Request reason:
I have removed a section of WP:IINFO that does not have consensus on the talk page. I have discussed the removal of that section extensively on the talk page. And I have not violated the three revert rule.
Decline reason:
No consensus means no change - this is standard procedure across the project, and applies to everything from deletion debates to policy discussions. Unless there is a clear consensus to make your changes, they should not be made. The manner in which you made the changes is also disruptive. You are encouraged to read WP:CON while you wait for your block to expire. — Hersfold ( t/ a/ c) 19:13, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{ unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
I've read Wikipedia:Consensus. It says [8] "Policies and guidelines document communal consensus rather than creating it." and "In the case of policy pages a higher standard of participation and consensus is expected." and "Consensus is not immutable. It is reasonable, and sometimes necessary, for the community to change its mind. Past decisions are open to challenge and should not be "binding" in the sense that the decision cannot be taken back." and "if one person or a limited group of people can reasonably demonstrate a change in consensus, then it is reasonable to effect the change at a process page. " and "Remember that we try to document actual practice, not prescribe rule-sets." and "If you notice that a particular policy or guideline page is not in line with current consensus, feel free to update it."
If the Plot summaries section of WP:IINFO had consensus to be in WP:NOT on WT:NOT, I would not have removed it. But several people stated it belongs in a guideline, not WP:NOT. And I have shown on WT:NOT that the Plot summaries section did not have consensus even when it was first proposed in June 2006. I made one removal and one revert on April 16, 2008 and I have been blocked. Sceptre should be able to demonstrate a higher standard of consensus that plot-only stubs make Wikipedia an indiscriminate collection of information. He has failed to do that. If the Plot summaries section actually had consensus, there would not be people saying it belongs in a guideline.
The editor who reverted me [9] [10], Sceptre, mistakenly thinks [11] that that part of policy is in there because it has to do with "derivative works" and fair use restrictions, and it does not. I believe this is simply harassment by Sceptre, who was also an involved party in the Episodes and characters 2 arbitration case. -- Pixelface ( talk) 19:40, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
{{unblock |1= [[User:Sceptre|Sceptre]] [http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not&diff=prev&oldid=206074309 reverted] my removal of a portion of policy that does not have consensus on [[WT:NOT#Plot|the talk page]]. [[User:Sceptre|Sceptre]] then gave me a {{tl|uw-vandalism3}} warning on my talk page.[http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=User_talk:Pixelface&diff=prev&oldid=206075512]. Sceptre then again [http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not&diff=prev&oldid=206076676 reverted] my removal of a portion of policy that does not have consensus on [[WT:NOT#Plot|the talk page]]. Sceptre then [http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Wikipedia:Administrator_intervention_against_vandalism&diff=prev&oldid=206076760 reported] me as a vandal to [[WP:AIV]]. I was blocked by AGK for "Vandalism: at Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not; per WP:AIV thread." I was not vandalizing [[WP:NOT]] and this block is completely unwarranted. If I am not unblocked, I will be leaving Wikipedia. I don't have to put up with this kind of harassment.}}
This "vandal" has left Wikipedia. -- Pixelface ( talk) 23:08, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
We've disagreed on a lot of stuff, but I would say that you're a good guy who has a lot of good points. If you're feeling burnt out then take your time, but I do hope you return in some form. -- Ned Scott 06:16, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Just in case you read this, I'd like to add my own voice - I've seen you around while editing and at AFDs, and always thought that you had some pretty decent things to say. I too would be sorry if you were gone for good - especially over what looks like a poor block decision. - Bilby ( talk) 08:24, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard#Block_review_and_contributor_discussion:_Pixelface
It took longer than the 12-hour span of the block, so an unblock is moot at this point, but cooler minds are prevailing now, and asserting that the block was inappropriate. (Ignore the partisan comments, of which there are many: ANI is ANI.)-- Father Goose ( talk) 08:54, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Do you ever stop being facetious? Sceptre ( talk) 01:34, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
AGK doesn't appear to have read the vandalism policy either, which I find extremely disturbing since he's an administrator — and especially since MedCom members are supposed to know the difference between content disputes and vandalism. Was this edit of yours vandalism because Bardin reverted it?
You've been here 35 months, do you think you have a good idea of what vandalism is and is not?
Please read the vandalism policy if you haven't already. It says [19] "Any good-faith effort to improve the encyclopedia, even if misguided or ill-considered, is not vandalism. Even harmful edits that are not explicitly made in bad faith are not considered vandalism." It also says "Avoid the word "vandal". In particular, the word should not be used in reference to any contributor in good standing or to any edits that can arguably be construed as good-faithed. If the edits in question are made in good faith, they are not vandalism. Instead of calling a person making such edits a "vandal", discuss his or her specific edits with him or her. Comment on the content and substance of his or her edits or arguments, not his or her person."
WP:VAND#NOT list the following as "What vandalism is not":
It also says "If a user treats situations which are not clear vandalism as such, then it is he or she who is actually harming the encyclopedia by alienating or driving away potential editors."
WP:AIV says "This page is intended to get administrator attention for obvious and persistent vandals and spammers only". WP:AIV also says "The vandal must be active now, and have vandalised after sufficient recent warnings to stop."
Did I vandalize after a level 4 warning Will? Did I even receive a level 1 or level 2 warning? Why did you give me a level 3 vandalism warning for an edit to a policy page? I would have been treated with more dignity if I had added "is an idiot" to the George W. Bush article.
And please read my recent summary of the thread at WT:NOT which is my interpretation of the discussion and why I removed the section. Could you please provide diffs to show that I was "warned multiple times to stop removing the section"?
Either you don't understand the vandalism policy or you've been abusing AIV. So which is it? I see you've made 636 edits to WP:AIV. How many of those have been bad reports? I don't know what's worse. That you've been here 35 months and have made 636 edits to AIV and don't know what vandalism is, or that an admin MedCom member doesn't know the difference between a content dispute and vandalism. -- Pixelface ( talk) 10:58, 24 April 2008 (UTC)\
And Will, regarding a comment you made at AN, it contained three false claims. You said "His actions caused the Episodes and characters 2 case." and that is totally false. My actions caused Corvus cornix to start an ANI thread where he falsely claimed I was reverting all of TTN's edits. That's easily disproved by looking at my first 15 reverts. It was Eusebeus and TTN who turned them into redirects (and Eusebeus, by the way, was blocked for editwarring over them, and continues to editwar over them, as can be seen at WP:AE). I was turning the Scrubs episode articles back into articles because I saw no consensus for them to be redirects on Talk:List of Scrubs episodes. And if it was *my* actions that "caused" the Episodes and characters 2 case, why did the arbitration committee restrict TTN? You're second false claim was "Specifically, edit warring on Scrubs episode articles." The arbitration committee and other editors found no evidence I was edit warring over Scrubs articles, look at the Workshop. Look at the history of articles like My Mentor and tell me who's been editwarring. Finally, you said "Him saying there's no consensus for PLOT is just wrong - only he agrees that it should be removed." and that's easily disproved because Hobit also removed that section from policy. And I can certainly provide more diffs if you'd like.
And there's tons of opposition easily found in the WT:NOT archives. You appear to be embarassed by my message, so I've left this on my talk page if you'd like to respond. -- Pixelface ( talk) 13:57, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
Welcome back! - Bilby ( talk) 01:40, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
Just a technical note, you can add an e-mail address in your prefs, but disable the "e-mail this user" feature, which would be very useful incase you had to reset a password, etc. -- Ned Scott 04:30, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
Just stumble upon your talk, not sure why you wanted to go previously, but I am very glad you've decided to come back. You are a valuable contributor and your work has been admired by many (even if they don't necessarily tell you that everyday ;)) I hope you're feeling well. Have a beautiful weekend, -- PeaceNT ( talk) 04:42, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, I'll add my unoriginal welcome. You may find it empowering (whatever that means) to know that I have been blocked on what was later considered an unconvincing basis. While the event was inconceivable beforehand, I've taken it as a sort of Purple Heart for sticking to my convictions. My RfA passed half a year later.
I am, of course, very much not saying "Go get more", but wave your flag and hold your head up high. Heh. --
Kiz
o
r
13:48, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
Can you honestly not see that it is time to disengage from this issue? Why are you bringing this issue up again, two days later after it has already been removed without being answered? At this point, it appears like you are trying to provoke a reaction, rather than a genuine attempt to resolve a dispute. Hopefully you can see that this should not be pursued further. Seraphim♥ Whipp 14:24, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
I'm afraid I have to agree with Seraphim on this. While what Sceptre did was wrong, and AGK erred in issuing the block, what you're doing now is not defensible. You're making it personal. That's a recipe for wiki self-destruction. Sceptre's poor behavior can speak for itself, and a long enough history of it will end up at ArbCom. Let him be his own undoing, not yours.-- Father Goose ( talk) 20:07, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
I welcome anyone to review my neutrality in this discussion. I'd say it's pretty clear that throughout, you were trying to provoke me. Now you are still continuing to do that with your sarcasm, carrying on about me after I've left the conversation.
I saw someone getting badgered by you, and if I had seen you doing this to anyone else, I would have stepped in and done exactly as I have done. Because it looks like the onset of harassment. You got blocked, and now all you're doing is saying, "It's unfair, I shouldn't have been blocked for vandalism". And you're right there, the block reason should have read "edit warring". So just treat that as a lesson learned. Seraphim♥ Whipp 09:09, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
One question first, when Spectre posted to AIV it included the comment that you had specifically asked him to not post warnings to your talk page. Is that correct?
Beyond that, I did look at what he was complaining about, and to be honest there is a problem with your conduct up to that point. You had been engaging in what amounts to disruptive editing. You boldly removed a section of WP:NOT, and instead of proceeding to a discussion when editors restored it and pointed out what you were doing was contentious or waiting for that discussion to generate a consensus, you continued to blank the section. That is by definition disruptive, and, if continued long enough, acting in bad faith and vandalism.
Had it gotten to that point? Possibly. Should your talk page have been peppered with warning about disruptive editing? Definitely. That last bit is why I raised the question above.
As for Spectre's comment in the new RFC location, half of it is a valid point: relocating the RFC header does come off as trying to disassociate it from the discussions it generated. And that aside, he's providing a recent example. Is it unsettling? Yes. Does it rise to a personal attack? No. And your removing it is a problem. You and he have a history of bad blood over the entire issue of WP:PLOT, you trimming out his comment, short of them being flagrant personal attacks, comes off as you either goading him or trying to shut him up. The entire "Disengage" section has others explicitly pointing out the damage you're doing to your good will as an editor by pressing him, this doesn't help that.
- J Greb ( talk) 02:41, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
I see now this is in response to an ANI thread by Sceptre. Anyone is free to move this comment to the ANI thread if they'd like. I believe that I am the one that has been harassed by Sceptre. He filed a false vandalism report on me to AIV. And yes, he was an involved party with me in the Episodes and characters 2 arbitration case. When I said I was leaving, he told TTN, another involved party in the Episodes and characters 2 arbitration case, that it was "good news." He also called me a "troll". I did ask Sceptre three questions on his talk page [39] [40] [41], and he removed each of them without an answer. And yes, I asked him about false claims he made about me at the Administrator's noticeboard and he refused to reply, so I left my rebuttal on my talk page.
Seraphim Whipp apparently took issue with a talkback template I left on Sceptre's talk page. That was my fifth message to Sceptre. (Although I did leave a message on Sceptre's talk page in January, asking him to please stop archiving an ANI thread against me where several people made false claims about me. Sceptre then removed my message asking him to please stop without an answer. I don't believe Sceptre has ever replied to me on his talk page and I don't know why that is exactly.) I was "asked to disengage" by his apparent friend Seraphim Whipp. Calling Seraphim Whipp Sceptre's "BFF" was uncivil of me. But from looking at Seraphim Whipp's talk page it appears to me they're both here for social networking, and Wikipedia is not MySpace. Sceptre appears to acknowledge that some people would see Seraphim Whipp contacting me as a conflict of interest. I haven't contacted Sceptre since Seraphim Whipp asked me to disengage. However, Seraphim Whipp has continued to post again and again and again on my talk page, and didn't seem to appear to want to disengage herself. I have disengaged from Sceptre. He posted a message on my talk page saying if I mentioned his false vandalism report to WP:AE that I would be "laughed at." I did not reply. And yes, I did remove a comment by Sceptre at WT:NOT, where he said "Yeah, this is really getting to be WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT now... but Pixel has a history for this... recent too." which I felt had nothing whatsoever to do with the WP:NOT policy. J Greb restored the comment saying I should ask an admin to look into it, so I asked J Greb for his opinion on his talk page. J Greb replied on my talk page, and I replied to J Greb, saying I feel I have been harassed by Sceptre. If Sceptre thinks posting 4 messages and 1 talkback on his talk page is "harassment" I apologize. I don't want to harass him and I'd appreciate it if he didn't harass me. TTN is currently blocked for a week and to me it looks like Sceptre wants to do anything to get me blocked as well. On April 9, 2008, Sceptre reported a user to AIV after they made one edit to User talk:TTN and without giving that user a warning first. I feel Sceptre has been abusing AIV. Sceptre has said he has "several contacts who can do some blocking" if he wants, and I find such a statement by a former admin alarming. I don't know if AGK and Sceptre are good friends. But I don't believe either of them understand the vandalism policy. -- Pixelface ( talk) 02:57, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
Seems major overkill to block Pixel for just removing that one comment. The other interactions are days old. Pixel was highly offended by the vandalism accusation, so we should be a little bit understanding about this. Certainly the issue should just be dropped, but what Pixelface is doing is a far cry from harassment. Possibly a bad judgment call on what to do, maybe, but certainly not intentional harassment. -- Ned Scott 05:02, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
Look, just drop it. Stop bringing up the Bush edit, stop bringing up the block, just shut up and do something productive. Otherwise, you'll be stuck in this ANI->Block->ANI cycle for weeks to come. Sceptre ( talk) 09:01, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
I am attempting to build consensus about the "Pre-launch violence" section in the Grand Theft Auto IV article. Please feel free to contribute to the discussion -- JediLofty User ¦ Talk 10:16, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
I would actively welcome your participation in this page so that we can attempt to establish an inclusive consensus. I would also welcome the views of anyone else you know of who do not believe their views are adequately represented. Thanks, Hiding T 12:14, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
You've changed three redirects to point towards Arguments to avoid in deletion discussions#I do not like it instead of their correct targets. [51] [52] [53] Please do not do this. Firstly, it makes the shortcut inconsistent with the documentation at the (correct) target page, and secondly, people often memorise the shortcut, and rightly expect it to point towards the appropriate page. If you disagree with people who use these shortcuts, then state your concerns; don't disrupt the discussion by trying to undermine their arguments. I've reverted your edits. Jakew ( talk) 10:46, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
Hey there,
From your note on WT:VG/GL regarding some edits of mine in 2007, I gather you may have some questions to ask me. Feel free to post some questions on my talk page, and I'll answer them as soon as possible. User:Krator ( t c) 22:19, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
Thank you for your participation in my recent RFA. Regarding your comment, on the issue of consensus judging, I actually thought we had achieved consensus at Talk:Grand Theft Auto IV on the issue of leaving it with "Eastern European", which is why I stated at "List of..." that consensus was reached. Perhaps I should've pointed them to the consensus, as not everyone is up-to-speed on all talk pages at all times. Anyhow, I've considered your statement and I will ensure that I look at all sides of a debate before making a determination with regards to consensus. Your suggestions about including all sources (both "Eastern European gray-area" and "Serbian" and contrasting them) also made a lot of sense. There were some other issues at my RFA, which I've examined here. Your comments are welcome. There's also some templated rfa thank-spam below. happy editing, xenocidic ( talk) 02:48, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
I would like to thank the community for placing their trust in me during
my recent request for adminship, which passed 72
13
2
. Rest assured, I have read each comment thoroughly and will be
addressing the various concerns raised as I step cautiously into my new role as janitor. In particular, I would like to thank
Balloonman for putting so much time into reviewing my contributions and writing such a thoughtful nomination statement after knowing me for only a brief period of time (and for convincing me that I was ready to take up the mop now, rather than go through
admin coaching).
To my fellow admins - please let me know right away if I ever take any mis-steps with my new tools. Should I make a mistake, and you reverse the action, I will not consider it to be wheel-warring (but please tell me so I can understand what I did wrong).
To everyone - please feel free to slap me around a bit if I ever lose sight of the core philosophy of Wikipedia as I understand it - the advancement of knowledge through the processes of mutual understanding and respect. As always, feel free to drop by my talk page if I can be of any assistance. =)
Sincerely,
~xenocidic, 01:04, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
I have opened a Wikiquette alert for your behavior in the WP:FICT discussion. Please understand that I respect your opinion of how fiction should be handled and am trying to work with everyone involved to resolve this; that is not the point of this WQA. Instead, I believe your commenting approach is souring the discussion as it is very defensive and aggressive and falls into uncivil behavior, as I commented on previously. However, if the community doesn't believe that is the case, then I preemptively apologize for bringing this up to that board. I'm trying to find a solution here that works for Wikipedia and everyone involved, and that means calm and rationale discussion instead of what I feel you are providing. -- MASEM 03:20, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
Hey there Pixelface. I have taken a look at the Wikiquette alert referenced above. Now, I for one have stopped participating in policy discussions altogether because I find them impossible to abide. So, I can't really comment on whether Masem's concerns are valid or not.
However, what I can say with certainty is that I think you would communicate your message better if you used shorter posts, ideally with more paragraph breaks. You may be interested in WP:TLDR. You may find that your message is more effective and received much more readily if you try to abide by these points. I know it's difficult; I tend to be very verbose myself :)
Anyway, just a suggestion. As I've said, I have no comment on the Wikiquette alert either way. -- Jaysweet ( talk) 13:52, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Pixelface -- please take a look at WP:WQA#WT:FICT compromise proposal, which I believe would address Masem's concern and allow us to put this issue behind us. (I also incidentally think it could make your arguments more effective) Let me know what you think. Thanks! -- Jaysweet ( talk) 14:45, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Hello! A couple of quick things: 1) we actually have 7 million editors? Wow! 2) I think it should be standard to notify all article creators and contributors of AfDs and DRVs, not simply a courtesy. 3) As you can see at this somewhat mind boggling ongoing discussion, some do indeed aggresively challenge you, I, and others about whether the plot section is disputed. I wonder if there would be a non-canvassing way to request that those who edit plot sections voice their opinions in the policy discussions in order to gain a more decisive consensus one war or the other? When I see comments like this posted in AfDs, I am not convinced that it's really just a couple of editors in any given discussion who dispute the sections under question, but a larger disagreement (lack of consensus) among the community? And as a general aside, I just don't see why so much focus on what Wikipedia is not rather than on building what Wikipedia is. And the way in which some assert that some articles are hopeless and cannot be improved is somewhat disquieting. Take this fictional character's article. Notice the lack of sources and context, i.e. in a state that surely some would use as cause for deletion if given the opportunity. Now look at the article after I did a search on a log on university search engine, i.e. something other than Google. No way would it possibly fail an AfD now. And it hardly took that much of my time to do, albeit it did require searching beyond Google. And there were even more sources (see Talk:Jim (Huckleberry Finn)) available than I used at the time. I just wish we could somehow encourage greater help in these efforts. I don't wish to "make enemies" or "get people banned" with whom I disagree. I really hope that all of us on the various sides of these discussions can coexist if not cooperate better and I really believe that what could help would be if more of the larger community were to chime in on these discussions as I at times feel like I don't know how many more times I can say certain things and I'm sure those with whom you and I usually disagree may even feel the same. Anyway, have a nice night! Sincerely, -- Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles Tally-ho! 08:38, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
Sorry, but the sentence shows up as "Áö³ 1¿ù Áß±¹¿¡ ¼öÃâµÈ '¿¡À̽º ¿Â¶óÀÎ'Àº Áö³ 9¿ùºÎÅÍ °ø°³¼ºñ½º ¸¦ ÁøÇàÇÏ¸ç µ¿½ÃÁ¢¼ÓÀÚ 2¸¸¸íÀ» ±â·ÏÇÏ°í ÀÖ´Ù". But if you haven't got it all ready translated, you may want to send an email to jimmy0704@naver.com.(no spams, please) Jimmy0704 ( talk) 12:02, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
It seems to mean this; Ace Online, which was exported to China on last January, provided open service since last September, and has had 20000 simultaneous players playing the game at a single moment. If you are not sure about a part of my translation, just tell me. Jimmy0704 ( talk) 04:01, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
There is currently an active discussion in WT:NOTE here regarding if there was a proposed rewrite of NOTE, what would people want to see. Knowing your stance on fiction topics, you may want to add your two cents here (I'm trying to make sure to note that there people that want inclusion of fiction in WP but right now that side is not well represented). -- MASEM 22:01, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
The above has been started by a user with whom you were apparently in dispute and so you may wish to comment there. Sincerely, -- Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles Tally-ho! 16:47, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
As you are a nice Wikipedian, I just wanted to wish you a happy Independence Day! And if you are not an American, then have a happy day and a wonderful weekend anyway! :) Your friend and colleague, --Happy Independence Day! Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles Tally-ho! 00:58, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
You seem to be documenting the history of notability, which means documenting some of the things I did. Let me try and explain some things if I can. this edit was made because I'd seen, um, WP:CORP, which by the way, heavily influenced my rewrite of WP:WEB, in January of 2006. That's when WP:WEB came to cover all web content. So then the phrase became inserted into most of the notability guidance. Back then I never really imagined it would become what it did become. Wikipedia was smaller, a lot smaller, and it didn't seem that important, after all, if I could just make this stuff up, anyone could just change it at a later date if they liked. That was the way we worked. Mea culpa. The staggering thing to me, is that words I wrote have become, I really don't know how to put this, but they appear to have become almost religiously followed, raised to some sort of biblical meaning that I just never intended. If I had my time again, I would never have done any of it, but it is too late now. The road to Hell is paved with good intentions. Also, you mention wanting to see the history of UGOPlayer. I've transwiki'd the page to [ [54]] so you can have a look. It was never my idea to equate notability with reliable sources, that's an old idea, that's an academic standard. Uncle G is, to my mind, the biggest proponent on Wikipedia. I tended to follow the thinking to a certain degree, but I've always had doubts as to how far it has extended. I was looking to guard against creating articles on everything. On you, on me, on the pencil on my table. I should not have worried, and should have trusted common sense. I apologise. I certainly agree with what I have written in my essay. Notability is subjective. Hiding T 12:06, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
Hi, I've seen you previously performed a merge involving The Addams Family (video game). I have proposed an additional merge of The Addams Family (arcade game) into The Addams Family (video game), as all these versions are basically identical. The arcade version would get preference in materal, however, as the other versions would also be mentioned but as ports of the arcade. If you want to provide input about the merger proposal place your thoughts here. Thank you, MuZemike ( talk) 22:14, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
It appears obvious now that the page List of people who died before the age of 30 is headed to deletion. I support its deletion myself. But this has given me an idea. Do you think it would make sense to have a set of categories called "Age x deaths," all in a parent category called "Deaths by age?" That seems like a better idea. This way, there would be no worry where to draw the line as to what age is "significant" as an age of death, and all ages people live to can possibly be included. There would be no need for one person to create all these categories in one day - they could be built gradually over time. We already have categories like 1949 deaths. Why can't we do the same with age? I would like some input. Sebwite ( talk) 23:13, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
Hi there! :)
As someone who's worked on D&D and/or RPG articles before, I'm inviting you to participate in our goal to both improve articles that have been selected to be placed in the next Wikipedia DVD release, as well as nominate more to be selected for this project. Please see the WikiProject D&D talk page for more details. :) BOZ ( talk) 18:24, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for uploading Image:Pandora tomorrow xbx.jpg. You've indicated that the image is being used under a claim of fair use, but you have not provided an adequate explanation for why it meets Wikipedia's requirements for such images. In particular, for each page the image is used on, the image must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Can you please check
This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. -- FairuseBot ( talk) 05:15, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
Hi Pixelface, Rather than the reversion of WP:NOT on Plot (which I agree with btw) I'd suggest an RfC. Right now you are tilting at windmills. A well-written RfC might be the way to actually keep change. Hobit ( talk) 16:55, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
I therefore propose that we work towards changing WP:NOT#PLOT into WP:NOT#COPY, which will emphasise the copyright aspect. This may command better support as being grounded in an objective respect for copyright law rather than a subjective dislike for extensive coverage of fictional topics.
What do you think? Colonel Warden ( talk) 17:37, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
I have placed a WP:AN/I on your repeated removal (over time) of PLOT. See here. -- MASEM 17:29, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
If you're going to insist on making childish remarks about my reasons for wanting to clean up fiction, please try to actually make some sense. I'm the one that actually got the merging for the Pokemon articles rolling. The plan was already there, but it was fairly stagnant until I bothered with it. The only reason I created any articles like that is because, like most people who start by editing fiction on this site, I was just following common practice rather than policies or guidelines (i.e. as long as it was major in the piece of fiction and it had content, it was deserving of an article). I eventually figured that most of the stuff was crap, and it went from there. TTN ( talk) 17:52, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
You'd do well to rephrase the first sentence of this edit. Angus McLellan (Talk) 21:18, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
please email me,even if you usually do not want to use email. DGG ( talk) 02:05, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
If you ever need me to chip in on a discussion re PLOT leave me a note on my talk page or email me. I'm not about much, but I'll be happy to offer my two cents, seeing as it was me what got us all into this mess in the first place, sort of. Apologies. Good luck with it. Hiding T 14:36, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for your input at my successful Rfa. I'm already thinking about working on my content creation. Hopefully in a few months, I'll have passed the point where you would've !voted Support. If you have any more equally well-thought-out suggestions on how I can improve myself as an editor, I'd be happy to hear them. I'd especially like to hear your thoughts on how the speedy deletion criteria A7 and A9 are not related to notability. The criteria state an article would meet the criteria if it "does not indicate why its subject is important or significant." I've always thought of these as the "assertion of notability" criteria. So when I think that an article fails A7 or A9, it's not that I merely think it isn't notable, it's that even the assertion of notability isn't present in the article. If the article asserts the notability, but can't back it up with sources, then that's something to PROD or take to Afd. I'd be interested in your thoughts on the matter.-- Aervanath lives in the Orphanage 21:16, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
Just a heads up, a proposal I informally made a while ago has now been formally offered at Wikipedia:Notability (fiction). The aim is to identify a pragmatic approach that reflects what is actually done on AfD, as opposed to an ideological approach. So while it's unlikely to appeal to partisans on either side, I think it represents a good and workable compromise. Any comments at Wikipedia talk:Notability (fiction) will be greatly appreciated. Phil Sandifer ( talk) 00:21, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
I'm not ignoring you; I'm just working through the questions in order. I hope to reply today but I have a stinking cold, which has been getting steadily worse over the weekend, and it's cramping my style somewhat. Apologies, -- ROGER DAVIES talk 09:37, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
Hi Pixelface, I wanted you to know that I have read your questions and have every intention of answering them; however, I probably won't get through them all tonight and will continue with them tomorrow. I figure you're not too late at all as long as the candidacy is live. :-) Risker ( talk) 05:45, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
I must've missed your questions the first time around, because I just now answered them here. I apologize for the delay! -- Hemlock Martinis ( talk) 23:09, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
Hey there.
Just a quick note to tell you that I have answered your followup questions on my candidacy Q&A page. — Coren (talk) 03:27, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
I think we feel similarly about fiction and wikia. Maybe we can get a fiction sister project rolling somehow? I've made comments at Wikipedia:Wikimedia sister projects a couple of times, which has led to nothing. Any ideas? - Peregrine Fisher ( talk) ( contribs) 06:08, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
I just checked and it says exactly what I expected it to say. My recent edits have been removing overly detailed plot and original research. You may also be interested to know that I supported the transwiki and deletion of several Xiaolin Showdown articles. I am a bureaucrat at the Xiaolin Showdown Wiki at Wikia. Wikipedia was not the place for most of those articles, and possibly the remainder. Jay32183 ( talk) 22:00, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
Hello, Pixelface. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. -- MASEM 07:18, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
Just so you know, the account on the xiaolinshowdown.wikia.com seems to be based on edits from transwikied articles that I redirected over here and the other one was just created to follow an AfD result of moving the article over there. I don't really care about the entire thing you have against the site, but you don't need to keep citing me as an example of some conspiracy. TTN ( talk) 20:17, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
Erm, you need email. I will make this more obvious-can you please email me?..Cheers,
Casliber (
talk ·
contribs)
22:11, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
I've answered the outstanding questions. Sorry that I did it at the eleventh hour but I've had real life problems (illness) and not been able to tackle things as quickly as I would have liked. My apologies, -- ROGER DAVIES talk 13:24, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
I think we've gotten off on the wrong foot, because we're used to discussing with arch-extreme inclusionsists or deletionists. I don't think anybody wants to keep wasting their time with polemics that just lead us down the same old debates. I wanted to show you that my efforts to find a middle ground are sincere, and that I don't expect you to just cave into my position. I see common goals, and I also see different goals that don't necessarily have to conflict. I'm not sure what else to say to convince you. Just that collaboration can lead to better results than pushing one side or another. It can even be satisfying. Randomran ( talk) 18:19, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
I think we're losing the thread again. We're back to "my position is closer to consensus" / "no mine". We should try to do better than pushing one extreme over another. I want to apologize for not focusing more on our common ground, because it's just meant that I've wasted your time and energy. So let me say that I appreciate your effort to reach out. I'd like to highlight one of your " earlier statements", because I think you were trying to get us to a workable compromise and I missed it:
So that I'm not taking your comment out of context, let me temper your effort to reach out with a concern you have:
I respect your concerns. We definitely don't want people removing information just because of a personal opinion. But I'm also asking you to respect my concerns, and work with me. Would you be willing to come up with a short statement about "too much detail" and staying "on topic"? In order to address your concerns about abuse, we would add a statement that would prevent it from being a weapon for people with an " WP:IHATEIT" bias. I'm willing to make concessions in order to find something you can agree to. But are you willing to propose some kind of statement, to be put in some kind of guideline? Randomran ( talk) 21:53, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
Thank you for endorsing one or more summaries in the RFC. Please note that two proposals have been put forward on how we can move on after the RFC: Casliber's proposal and Randomran's proposal. Please take the time to look over these proposals, and consider endorsing one of them, or writing one of your own. Thanks again for your participation! BOZ ( talk) 03:34, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
Hello! I really do think we need to distiguish between those who we can compromise with as I indicated at Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/Sgeureka#Oppose versus what seems like a real problem that really does need arbitration as seen at Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration#Request_to_amend_prior_case:_TTN. I really do think Sgeureka can be open-minded and I hope that others can too. Best, -- A Nobody My talk 06:33, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
Look, I've seen this go by many times and I've not been involved. Others have gotten into this with you many times and yet you persist.
Jack Merridew 12:33, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
Also; refer to me by my username. Jack Merridew 12:35, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
See; WP:DRAMA#Pixelface and WP:NOT#PLOT. I forgot to mention it. Jack Merridew 12:41, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
Please note that I have created an WP:RFC/U case on your recent editing behavior in order to try to work out some compromise. The RFC/U can be found Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Pixelface. -- MASEM 18:31, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
Hi,
I noticed you voted oppose in the flag revs straw pole and would like to ask if you would mind adding User:Promethean/No to your user or talk page to make your position clear to people who visit your page :) - Thanks to Neurolysis for the template «l| Ψrometheăn ™|l» (talk) 06:51, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
Your wiki-parody using "Prufrock" at [ [75]] was great, you should frame it. I agree with your interpretation that Kiellor was saying high-brow art is the reason for low-brow public taste, and with your argument that Wikipedia has too many intellectual snobs. Unfortunately the material after "Prufrock" really is WP:TLDR. I suggest you: summarise that to 2 fairly short paras; put the "Prufrock" parody in a right-floated div (with border, & poss bg colour) at the top of the section, so the height of the whole lot is not too daunting. -- Philcha ( talk) 14:34, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
fyi: User talk:Jimbo Wales#fan wars. I really have read through it three times. Cheers, Jack Merridew 15:34, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
I loved your seething expose and found it very useful here. I find even when i am on the losing side, i get comfort from the fact that these exposes will often come back and bite a person later.
I appreciate your work and I would be happy to help in anyway. Ikip ( talk) 08:54, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
No idea, no edits since late Dec. -- MASEM 14:53, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
Oops, sorry about that. I thought I was just the first to reply :P -- Helenalex ( talk) 21:38, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
Hello White Cat. I created a survey about fictional topics three months ago and I rewrote it recently and mentioned it at the village pump — it's at User:Pixelface/Fiction Survey 2009. I noticed this thread you started at the village pump about your questionnaire and I see it asks about fictional topics. Maybe we could combine the questionnaires somehow? If you'd rather not combine them, I'd be happy to edit yours if you want. I would also appreciate any edits to my survey. If you don't want to edit it, could you tell me what you think of the questions on its talk page? Thanks, -- Pixelface ( talk) 04:34, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
Please leave me a note when the survey is ready to be answered. [- Mgm| (talk) 10:47, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
I've noticed that Aka's tool doesn't go beyond "Conversion script" when it comes to the first edit.
i didn't quite understand that sentence!? 212.200.243.165 ( talk) 01:21, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
![]() |
The Tireless Contributor Barnstar | |
The Tireless Contributor Barnstar may be awarded to especially tireless Wikipedians who contribute an especially large body of work. This barnstar is awarded to Pixelface, for the incredible work he has done on User:Pixelface/Timeline of notability guidelines and other policy and guideline pages. Thank you so much for tireless striving to make wikipedia a welcome place for everyone's views, not just an elite few. Ikip ( talk) 10:50, 23 January 2009 (UTC) |
There is currently a straw poll at Wikipedia talk:Notability (fiction). Since this proposal may influence some of the articles covered by this project, any input there would be helpful to help build a consensus regarding the proposal. Thank you. Gavin Collins ( talk) 00:21, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
MuZemike 07:00, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
Please stop hounding Bignole with non-sequitors on WT:FICT. If you disagree with his comments, fine, reply and disagree. This kind of badgering is flamebait and that talk page has seen plenty enough of that. - A Man In Bl♟ck ( conspire - past ops) 13:11, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
Hooookay I just filled myself in on some of the context here. I stand by what I said above, but there's no sword of Damocles hanging here. I just don't want to see that turn into a bunch of hairball bullshit about "You're a hypocrite!" "No I'm not!" etc. You're not really interested in getting that article saved or deleted, you just want to make a point about how the inclusion standards for fiction make less sense than an Escher painting and are about as complicated (correct me if I'm wrong).
If that's where you are, I'm with you against them. All of this bullshit has been turned into Inclusionist/Deletionist Bout #227585432: Now It's Personal, and doesn't practically project into a scheme that makes emotional sense. I just don't want to see the outside position get marginalized as the troll/shitdisturber fringe.
(This was written before seeing the 13:35 comment.) - A Man In Bl♟ck ( conspire - past ops) 13:44, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
I hate to interfere, but what you say, Black, is not always possible. There are some users on this site who edit articles solely for fights. I mentioned this on the video game project talk page. There are two editors who have staked out certain articles and will randomly revert edits to start fights, even for games they have admittedly never played. Using the fine print and loopholes in Wikipedia's rules, they manage to get good info delete, wrong info kept, and then use their admin connections or instigation to get the user banned. With them, pointing out errors in their edits will do no good, since it is the users themselves who are the problems. Akari Kanzaki ( talk) 13:45, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
It's called an example of the point I was trying to make. You say focus only on the opinions and not the user who makes them, but I'm saying that's not always possible. As in my example, there are some users who edit for less-than-honorable reasons. Akari Kanzaki ( talk) 13:59, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
I have an objection to that. Why would we move this discussion onto MY talk page? My statement was in defense of what you said to Pixel, as part of THIS discussion. Akari Kanzaki ( talk) 14:06, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
No idea what you're talking about, since I'm not accusing anyone, nor does this have anything to do with misunderstandings. You are scolding Pixel for saying something against a user, advising them to instead speak about what the user is saying. I am commenting in relation to that that it's not always possible. If I just said it was impossible, it wouldn't be much of a point, so I offered an example. That's it. Akari Kanzaki ( talk) 14:18, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
I was using it as an example. Nothing can be done about those two users. I'm not getting banned. I'm doing what I can to get the articles fixed, but if they get wind of that, I'm going to get banned. It can still come down to conduct, though, even if it doesn't seem like it. Even though they can make it seem like they are following all the rules, because Wiki has so many of them, it is easy to find loopholes that allow users who only want to cause harm to do so. When it comes down to that, arguing their point becomes moot, since they'll just keep whipping out another policy or making accusations of their own. Just a point I was trying to make in general. Akari Kanzaki ( talk) 14:37, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
New to editing, maybe. I've still been here before and seen what goes on. Besides, it became quite a talked-about topic among fans. And I'm a fan. I've followed the argument, hoping right would win out, but I never joined in. That whole thing was actually why I avoided creating an account up until now. Akari Kanzaki ( talk) 15:32, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
It's not true. Not even in the slightest. I'll still probably be banned, though. I mentioned it above-many innocent editors were banned by her, because she's got friends who are admins here. Akari Kanzaki ( talk) 23:54, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
Oh, but Erigu coming here just to sarcastically claim I'm someone else and post a link to something completely unrelated to this discussion is fine? I know the facts. This kid has friends who are admins. Many people of many walks have opposed her-new uers, old users, and so on,-and she has gotten every single one of them banned as an alleged duplicate account. On top of that, she has gone so far as to harass this "SyberiaWinx", though their is no username that matches that on this site. She is just looking for people to target. It's no stretch to assume I'll get banned like all her other targets. I said from the beginning I would get targeted if word ever reached one of those two trolls, and I was right, wasn't I? Funny how no one ever calls them out on going around and flaming/accusing people. But to even target people not on Wikipedia, too... Why doesn't someone say something to her? Akari Kanzaki ( talk) 01:13, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
SPI? Remember, despite her claims, I am new here. I've no idea what that stands for... Akari Kanzaki ( talk) 01:34, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
I've already posted, but I'm not optomistic. It seems the method of attack this time is, "you must be a sockpuppet, because we can tie your name and some of the other sockpuppets names to Japanese pop-culture". It's going to be a long, stressful day... Akari Kanzaki ( talk) 01:47, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
You know, your last post on the guidelines talk page didn't make sense. You said didn't mean I was the first person to add a Top ten list section to the WALL-E article., but earlier you said WALL-E was the first article about a 2008 film that I added a Top ten list section to. Small contradiction between the two statements. Then when you said That was just the first article for a 2008 film I — personally — added a section too, I was pointing out that you hadn't *added* a section as I had added it weeks previously only to have it rewritten in prose...leading to the conversation being had on the other page. No worries, but you can see where one could get confused. SpikeJones ( talk) 22:56, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
I'm sorry to see you so down in the dumps, and in all honesty I don;t really have any answers for you. I understand your frustration. The idea of a poll is perhaps one you may want to look at pushing; but I think if you do feel that is the way forwards, you need to ask yourself which way the community is likely to poll. Do the majority of wikipedians support an encyclopedia with copious amounts of plot summary? To be honest, I think your energy would be better expended in either cleaning up articles so that they are well written, well sourced, concise and comprehensive. It is far harder to delete a page which looks like an encyclopedia article ought to, and which passes the spirit of WP:V, WP:NOR and WP:NPOV. Your other option is to look into convincing the community and/or the foundation to seriously consider the setting up of topic centred wiki's, or even one wiki, run on a not for profit basis but funded by advertising. Any surplus cash from the advertising once running costs are covered would be kicked back to either the foundation or perhaps a new charity which promotes values similar to that of the foundation. I'd be more than happy to work with you on that goal. Hiding T 09:48, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
See: Wikipedia:Village_pump_(miscellaneous)#Twenty_five_percent_of_wikipedia_is_fiction_articles.3F where your name is mentioned. We would love your input and explanation of where you got this number. Ikip ( talk) 14:23, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
If you don't know what "notable" means, please look it up isn't nice. I know how you feel about this issue, but please just tone it down a little? Even if you're right about advertising [his] afd just say it all sweet and bat your eyes, ok, please? brenneman 12:16, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
You may be interested in this essay. Ikip ( talk) 10:29, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
I'm going to adopt the mantra of Wikipedia:Dispute resolution and try to avoid engaging with you. It's no longer productive either for me or for you, it seems to cause stress in both of us, which is quite an unhealthy state and which should be avoided. I can't promise that I will never reply to anything you say, or that I will not edit in areas where you also edit, because we both share common interests. I will, however, attempt to avoid arguing with you, as it is counter-productive. Whilst I appreciate your point of view, I do not agree with your methods or your manner. I repeat the advice I gave you before, I think your energy would be better expended in cleaning up articles so that they are well written, well sourced, concise and comprehensive. I apologise for any offense I may have caused you with my off hand comment at WT:FICT. All the best, Hiding T 09:51, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
List of all policies and most guidelines, and their editing statistics (as of February 10, 2009)
links have combined page/talk statistics!
anyhow, i've noticed Masem is one of the most active editors on WT:NOT and WT:Notability fiction, and it seems to me that he is doing RfCU as a way to discredit one of his loudest opponents... 212.200.243.17 ( talk) 11:12, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
Hello! I am working on an objective alternate to notability in my userspace. Please read User:A Nobody/Inclusion guidelines and offer any suggestions on its talk page, which I will consider for revision purposes. If you do not do so, no worries, but if you wish to help, it is appreciated. Best, -- A Nobody My talk 01:52, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
Pixelface, you've been brought to ANI repeatedly over your attempts to disrupt certain guidelines that don't reflect your views (WP:NOT#PLOT and WP:N). You've been here long enough to know that when you disagree with a guideline or policy, especially a guideline or policy that has been widely accepted for years, you must discuss large-scale changes on the talk page. The guidelines are not intended to reflect the views of any individual editor, but of broad consensus, and at this point consensus does not appear to be anywhere close to what you would like the guideline to reflect. Until you can demonstrate that your view has significant support, you can't just start tagging sections as disputed. The WP:N dispute tags have been removed again, as discussion on the talk page does not demonstrate a large-scale dispute. If you add them back you will be blocked for edit-warring. Karanacs ( talk) 15:35, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
- If you have grounds to claim that a section was recently added or substantially altered in breach of the proper procedures for establishing consensus, then you may use {{disputedtag|section=yes|talk=Discussion Title}} instead.
- Like all editing tools, these can be overused, and be disruptive; please be sure that these are marking a real dispute.
- Bold editors of policy and guidelines pages are strongly encouraged to follow WP:1RR or WP:0RR standards. If your changes are removed, please make no further changes until the issue has been appropriately discussed on the talk page.
Whack!
A Nobody
My talk has smiled at you! Smiles promote
WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend, Go on smile! Cheers, and Happy editing!
Smile at others by adding {{
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GameKeeper (
talk)
19:30, 1 April 2008 (UTC) .
I quite enjoyed it but its soon time for it to go. Uncyclopedia needs you! GameKeeper ( talk) 19:30, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
Permission from Alexa. Because Alexa Internet understands that we are an information resource, we are happy to have people refer to our data in their own work. As long as you credit us appropriately as the source, do not mis-represent the data or attribute Alexa Internet with your subsequent analysis thereof, please feel free to cite Alexa's information, including our charts and graphs, in your publications. There is no copyvio here. Can you please reconsider your vote? Anwar ( talk) 01:23, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
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"Keep, it's a perfectly cromulent encyclopedia entry." Heh.-- Father Goose ( talk) 01:27, 12 April 2008 (UTC) |
Please stop. If you continue to
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Sceptre (
talk)
18:46, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
(outdent) Please read the thread again. I may have mispoke when I said "Do you notice all the people that said it belongs in WP:WAF and not a list of things Wikipedia is not?" And Taxman is against removing the Plot summaries section. However, Father Goose said "This is more a style issue than a content issue, so the appropriate place for it is arguably in a guideline, not in a content-exclusion policy." [1] , DGG said "More generally, NOT PLOT as it is written does not belong in NOT--policy should be general principles, not the details found there." [2] 23skidoo said "I agree with those who feel this is better suited for MoS rather than trying to pigeonhole it into a policy that, technically, is intended to supress content." [3] , Eubulide said "I object to treating plot details in a different way than other types of sourced information in WP." and "This is done only for plot summaries and nobody gave an explanation for this exception. If an article is missing real-world context, the reasonable approach is to add such context, not delete the rest." [4] , SmokeyJoe said "I think WP:NOT#PLOT, as written, belongs in WP:WAF." [5] , Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles said "We should remove the plot section of what Wikipedia is not." [6] , and Hobit said "I'll chime in by saying I don't think issues of plot summary should be here." [7]. Now you show me where there's consensus that plot-only stubs make Wikipedia an indiscriminate collection of information. -- Pixelface ( talk) 20:00, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
Your consistent removal and blanking of sections of the Wikipedia policy page, what wikipedia is not, is disruptive and unconstructive. Collected and civil discussion with the wider editorial community (that means talk page discussion, for the record) is the way to address qualms with the content of policy, not blanking and forcing through your opinion with reverting. I have blocked you for 12 hours; please do not disrupt Wikipedia. Anthøny 19:05, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
Pixelface ( block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser ( log))
Request reason:
I have removed a section of WP:IINFO that does not have consensus on the talk page. I have discussed the removal of that section extensively on the talk page. And I have not violated the three revert rule.
Decline reason:
No consensus means no change - this is standard procedure across the project, and applies to everything from deletion debates to policy discussions. Unless there is a clear consensus to make your changes, they should not be made. The manner in which you made the changes is also disruptive. You are encouraged to read WP:CON while you wait for your block to expire. — Hersfold ( t/ a/ c) 19:13, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{ unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
I've read Wikipedia:Consensus. It says [8] "Policies and guidelines document communal consensus rather than creating it." and "In the case of policy pages a higher standard of participation and consensus is expected." and "Consensus is not immutable. It is reasonable, and sometimes necessary, for the community to change its mind. Past decisions are open to challenge and should not be "binding" in the sense that the decision cannot be taken back." and "if one person or a limited group of people can reasonably demonstrate a change in consensus, then it is reasonable to effect the change at a process page. " and "Remember that we try to document actual practice, not prescribe rule-sets." and "If you notice that a particular policy or guideline page is not in line with current consensus, feel free to update it."
If the Plot summaries section of WP:IINFO had consensus to be in WP:NOT on WT:NOT, I would not have removed it. But several people stated it belongs in a guideline, not WP:NOT. And I have shown on WT:NOT that the Plot summaries section did not have consensus even when it was first proposed in June 2006. I made one removal and one revert on April 16, 2008 and I have been blocked. Sceptre should be able to demonstrate a higher standard of consensus that plot-only stubs make Wikipedia an indiscriminate collection of information. He has failed to do that. If the Plot summaries section actually had consensus, there would not be people saying it belongs in a guideline.
The editor who reverted me [9] [10], Sceptre, mistakenly thinks [11] that that part of policy is in there because it has to do with "derivative works" and fair use restrictions, and it does not. I believe this is simply harassment by Sceptre, who was also an involved party in the Episodes and characters 2 arbitration case. -- Pixelface ( talk) 19:40, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
{{unblock |1= [[User:Sceptre|Sceptre]] [http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not&diff=prev&oldid=206074309 reverted] my removal of a portion of policy that does not have consensus on [[WT:NOT#Plot|the talk page]]. [[User:Sceptre|Sceptre]] then gave me a {{tl|uw-vandalism3}} warning on my talk page.[http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=User_talk:Pixelface&diff=prev&oldid=206075512]. Sceptre then again [http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not&diff=prev&oldid=206076676 reverted] my removal of a portion of policy that does not have consensus on [[WT:NOT#Plot|the talk page]]. Sceptre then [http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Wikipedia:Administrator_intervention_against_vandalism&diff=prev&oldid=206076760 reported] me as a vandal to [[WP:AIV]]. I was blocked by AGK for "Vandalism: at Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not; per WP:AIV thread." I was not vandalizing [[WP:NOT]] and this block is completely unwarranted. If I am not unblocked, I will be leaving Wikipedia. I don't have to put up with this kind of harassment.}}
This "vandal" has left Wikipedia. -- Pixelface ( talk) 23:08, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
We've disagreed on a lot of stuff, but I would say that you're a good guy who has a lot of good points. If you're feeling burnt out then take your time, but I do hope you return in some form. -- Ned Scott 06:16, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Just in case you read this, I'd like to add my own voice - I've seen you around while editing and at AFDs, and always thought that you had some pretty decent things to say. I too would be sorry if you were gone for good - especially over what looks like a poor block decision. - Bilby ( talk) 08:24, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard#Block_review_and_contributor_discussion:_Pixelface
It took longer than the 12-hour span of the block, so an unblock is moot at this point, but cooler minds are prevailing now, and asserting that the block was inappropriate. (Ignore the partisan comments, of which there are many: ANI is ANI.)-- Father Goose ( talk) 08:54, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Do you ever stop being facetious? Sceptre ( talk) 01:34, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
AGK doesn't appear to have read the vandalism policy either, which I find extremely disturbing since he's an administrator — and especially since MedCom members are supposed to know the difference between content disputes and vandalism. Was this edit of yours vandalism because Bardin reverted it?
You've been here 35 months, do you think you have a good idea of what vandalism is and is not?
Please read the vandalism policy if you haven't already. It says [19] "Any good-faith effort to improve the encyclopedia, even if misguided or ill-considered, is not vandalism. Even harmful edits that are not explicitly made in bad faith are not considered vandalism." It also says "Avoid the word "vandal". In particular, the word should not be used in reference to any contributor in good standing or to any edits that can arguably be construed as good-faithed. If the edits in question are made in good faith, they are not vandalism. Instead of calling a person making such edits a "vandal", discuss his or her specific edits with him or her. Comment on the content and substance of his or her edits or arguments, not his or her person."
WP:VAND#NOT list the following as "What vandalism is not":
It also says "If a user treats situations which are not clear vandalism as such, then it is he or she who is actually harming the encyclopedia by alienating or driving away potential editors."
WP:AIV says "This page is intended to get administrator attention for obvious and persistent vandals and spammers only". WP:AIV also says "The vandal must be active now, and have vandalised after sufficient recent warnings to stop."
Did I vandalize after a level 4 warning Will? Did I even receive a level 1 or level 2 warning? Why did you give me a level 3 vandalism warning for an edit to a policy page? I would have been treated with more dignity if I had added "is an idiot" to the George W. Bush article.
And please read my recent summary of the thread at WT:NOT which is my interpretation of the discussion and why I removed the section. Could you please provide diffs to show that I was "warned multiple times to stop removing the section"?
Either you don't understand the vandalism policy or you've been abusing AIV. So which is it? I see you've made 636 edits to WP:AIV. How many of those have been bad reports? I don't know what's worse. That you've been here 35 months and have made 636 edits to AIV and don't know what vandalism is, or that an admin MedCom member doesn't know the difference between a content dispute and vandalism. -- Pixelface ( talk) 10:58, 24 April 2008 (UTC)\
And Will, regarding a comment you made at AN, it contained three false claims. You said "His actions caused the Episodes and characters 2 case." and that is totally false. My actions caused Corvus cornix to start an ANI thread where he falsely claimed I was reverting all of TTN's edits. That's easily disproved by looking at my first 15 reverts. It was Eusebeus and TTN who turned them into redirects (and Eusebeus, by the way, was blocked for editwarring over them, and continues to editwar over them, as can be seen at WP:AE). I was turning the Scrubs episode articles back into articles because I saw no consensus for them to be redirects on Talk:List of Scrubs episodes. And if it was *my* actions that "caused" the Episodes and characters 2 case, why did the arbitration committee restrict TTN? You're second false claim was "Specifically, edit warring on Scrubs episode articles." The arbitration committee and other editors found no evidence I was edit warring over Scrubs articles, look at the Workshop. Look at the history of articles like My Mentor and tell me who's been editwarring. Finally, you said "Him saying there's no consensus for PLOT is just wrong - only he agrees that it should be removed." and that's easily disproved because Hobit also removed that section from policy. And I can certainly provide more diffs if you'd like.
And there's tons of opposition easily found in the WT:NOT archives. You appear to be embarassed by my message, so I've left this on my talk page if you'd like to respond. -- Pixelface ( talk) 13:57, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
Welcome back! - Bilby ( talk) 01:40, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
Just a technical note, you can add an e-mail address in your prefs, but disable the "e-mail this user" feature, which would be very useful incase you had to reset a password, etc. -- Ned Scott 04:30, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
Just stumble upon your talk, not sure why you wanted to go previously, but I am very glad you've decided to come back. You are a valuable contributor and your work has been admired by many (even if they don't necessarily tell you that everyday ;)) I hope you're feeling well. Have a beautiful weekend, -- PeaceNT ( talk) 04:42, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, I'll add my unoriginal welcome. You may find it empowering (whatever that means) to know that I have been blocked on what was later considered an unconvincing basis. While the event was inconceivable beforehand, I've taken it as a sort of Purple Heart for sticking to my convictions. My RfA passed half a year later.
I am, of course, very much not saying "Go get more", but wave your flag and hold your head up high. Heh. --
Kiz
o
r
13:48, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
Can you honestly not see that it is time to disengage from this issue? Why are you bringing this issue up again, two days later after it has already been removed without being answered? At this point, it appears like you are trying to provoke a reaction, rather than a genuine attempt to resolve a dispute. Hopefully you can see that this should not be pursued further. Seraphim♥ Whipp 14:24, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
I'm afraid I have to agree with Seraphim on this. While what Sceptre did was wrong, and AGK erred in issuing the block, what you're doing now is not defensible. You're making it personal. That's a recipe for wiki self-destruction. Sceptre's poor behavior can speak for itself, and a long enough history of it will end up at ArbCom. Let him be his own undoing, not yours.-- Father Goose ( talk) 20:07, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
I welcome anyone to review my neutrality in this discussion. I'd say it's pretty clear that throughout, you were trying to provoke me. Now you are still continuing to do that with your sarcasm, carrying on about me after I've left the conversation.
I saw someone getting badgered by you, and if I had seen you doing this to anyone else, I would have stepped in and done exactly as I have done. Because it looks like the onset of harassment. You got blocked, and now all you're doing is saying, "It's unfair, I shouldn't have been blocked for vandalism". And you're right there, the block reason should have read "edit warring". So just treat that as a lesson learned. Seraphim♥ Whipp 09:09, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
One question first, when Spectre posted to AIV it included the comment that you had specifically asked him to not post warnings to your talk page. Is that correct?
Beyond that, I did look at what he was complaining about, and to be honest there is a problem with your conduct up to that point. You had been engaging in what amounts to disruptive editing. You boldly removed a section of WP:NOT, and instead of proceeding to a discussion when editors restored it and pointed out what you were doing was contentious or waiting for that discussion to generate a consensus, you continued to blank the section. That is by definition disruptive, and, if continued long enough, acting in bad faith and vandalism.
Had it gotten to that point? Possibly. Should your talk page have been peppered with warning about disruptive editing? Definitely. That last bit is why I raised the question above.
As for Spectre's comment in the new RFC location, half of it is a valid point: relocating the RFC header does come off as trying to disassociate it from the discussions it generated. And that aside, he's providing a recent example. Is it unsettling? Yes. Does it rise to a personal attack? No. And your removing it is a problem. You and he have a history of bad blood over the entire issue of WP:PLOT, you trimming out his comment, short of them being flagrant personal attacks, comes off as you either goading him or trying to shut him up. The entire "Disengage" section has others explicitly pointing out the damage you're doing to your good will as an editor by pressing him, this doesn't help that.
- J Greb ( talk) 02:41, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
I see now this is in response to an ANI thread by Sceptre. Anyone is free to move this comment to the ANI thread if they'd like. I believe that I am the one that has been harassed by Sceptre. He filed a false vandalism report on me to AIV. And yes, he was an involved party with me in the Episodes and characters 2 arbitration case. When I said I was leaving, he told TTN, another involved party in the Episodes and characters 2 arbitration case, that it was "good news." He also called me a "troll". I did ask Sceptre three questions on his talk page [39] [40] [41], and he removed each of them without an answer. And yes, I asked him about false claims he made about me at the Administrator's noticeboard and he refused to reply, so I left my rebuttal on my talk page.
Seraphim Whipp apparently took issue with a talkback template I left on Sceptre's talk page. That was my fifth message to Sceptre. (Although I did leave a message on Sceptre's talk page in January, asking him to please stop archiving an ANI thread against me where several people made false claims about me. Sceptre then removed my message asking him to please stop without an answer. I don't believe Sceptre has ever replied to me on his talk page and I don't know why that is exactly.) I was "asked to disengage" by his apparent friend Seraphim Whipp. Calling Seraphim Whipp Sceptre's "BFF" was uncivil of me. But from looking at Seraphim Whipp's talk page it appears to me they're both here for social networking, and Wikipedia is not MySpace. Sceptre appears to acknowledge that some people would see Seraphim Whipp contacting me as a conflict of interest. I haven't contacted Sceptre since Seraphim Whipp asked me to disengage. However, Seraphim Whipp has continued to post again and again and again on my talk page, and didn't seem to appear to want to disengage herself. I have disengaged from Sceptre. He posted a message on my talk page saying if I mentioned his false vandalism report to WP:AE that I would be "laughed at." I did not reply. And yes, I did remove a comment by Sceptre at WT:NOT, where he said "Yeah, this is really getting to be WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT now... but Pixel has a history for this... recent too." which I felt had nothing whatsoever to do with the WP:NOT policy. J Greb restored the comment saying I should ask an admin to look into it, so I asked J Greb for his opinion on his talk page. J Greb replied on my talk page, and I replied to J Greb, saying I feel I have been harassed by Sceptre. If Sceptre thinks posting 4 messages and 1 talkback on his talk page is "harassment" I apologize. I don't want to harass him and I'd appreciate it if he didn't harass me. TTN is currently blocked for a week and to me it looks like Sceptre wants to do anything to get me blocked as well. On April 9, 2008, Sceptre reported a user to AIV after they made one edit to User talk:TTN and without giving that user a warning first. I feel Sceptre has been abusing AIV. Sceptre has said he has "several contacts who can do some blocking" if he wants, and I find such a statement by a former admin alarming. I don't know if AGK and Sceptre are good friends. But I don't believe either of them understand the vandalism policy. -- Pixelface ( talk) 02:57, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
Seems major overkill to block Pixel for just removing that one comment. The other interactions are days old. Pixel was highly offended by the vandalism accusation, so we should be a little bit understanding about this. Certainly the issue should just be dropped, but what Pixelface is doing is a far cry from harassment. Possibly a bad judgment call on what to do, maybe, but certainly not intentional harassment. -- Ned Scott 05:02, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
Look, just drop it. Stop bringing up the Bush edit, stop bringing up the block, just shut up and do something productive. Otherwise, you'll be stuck in this ANI->Block->ANI cycle for weeks to come. Sceptre ( talk) 09:01, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
I am attempting to build consensus about the "Pre-launch violence" section in the Grand Theft Auto IV article. Please feel free to contribute to the discussion -- JediLofty User ¦ Talk 10:16, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
I would actively welcome your participation in this page so that we can attempt to establish an inclusive consensus. I would also welcome the views of anyone else you know of who do not believe their views are adequately represented. Thanks, Hiding T 12:14, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
You've changed three redirects to point towards Arguments to avoid in deletion discussions#I do not like it instead of their correct targets. [51] [52] [53] Please do not do this. Firstly, it makes the shortcut inconsistent with the documentation at the (correct) target page, and secondly, people often memorise the shortcut, and rightly expect it to point towards the appropriate page. If you disagree with people who use these shortcuts, then state your concerns; don't disrupt the discussion by trying to undermine their arguments. I've reverted your edits. Jakew ( talk) 10:46, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
Hey there,
From your note on WT:VG/GL regarding some edits of mine in 2007, I gather you may have some questions to ask me. Feel free to post some questions on my talk page, and I'll answer them as soon as possible. User:Krator ( t c) 22:19, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
Thank you for your participation in my recent RFA. Regarding your comment, on the issue of consensus judging, I actually thought we had achieved consensus at Talk:Grand Theft Auto IV on the issue of leaving it with "Eastern European", which is why I stated at "List of..." that consensus was reached. Perhaps I should've pointed them to the consensus, as not everyone is up-to-speed on all talk pages at all times. Anyhow, I've considered your statement and I will ensure that I look at all sides of a debate before making a determination with regards to consensus. Your suggestions about including all sources (both "Eastern European gray-area" and "Serbian" and contrasting them) also made a lot of sense. There were some other issues at my RFA, which I've examined here. Your comments are welcome. There's also some templated rfa thank-spam below. happy editing, xenocidic ( talk) 02:48, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
I would like to thank the community for placing their trust in me during
my recent request for adminship, which passed 72
13
2
. Rest assured, I have read each comment thoroughly and will be
addressing the various concerns raised as I step cautiously into my new role as janitor. In particular, I would like to thank
Balloonman for putting so much time into reviewing my contributions and writing such a thoughtful nomination statement after knowing me for only a brief period of time (and for convincing me that I was ready to take up the mop now, rather than go through
admin coaching).
To my fellow admins - please let me know right away if I ever take any mis-steps with my new tools. Should I make a mistake, and you reverse the action, I will not consider it to be wheel-warring (but please tell me so I can understand what I did wrong).
To everyone - please feel free to slap me around a bit if I ever lose sight of the core philosophy of Wikipedia as I understand it - the advancement of knowledge through the processes of mutual understanding and respect. As always, feel free to drop by my talk page if I can be of any assistance. =)
Sincerely,
~xenocidic, 01:04, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
I have opened a Wikiquette alert for your behavior in the WP:FICT discussion. Please understand that I respect your opinion of how fiction should be handled and am trying to work with everyone involved to resolve this; that is not the point of this WQA. Instead, I believe your commenting approach is souring the discussion as it is very defensive and aggressive and falls into uncivil behavior, as I commented on previously. However, if the community doesn't believe that is the case, then I preemptively apologize for bringing this up to that board. I'm trying to find a solution here that works for Wikipedia and everyone involved, and that means calm and rationale discussion instead of what I feel you are providing. -- MASEM 03:20, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
Hey there Pixelface. I have taken a look at the Wikiquette alert referenced above. Now, I for one have stopped participating in policy discussions altogether because I find them impossible to abide. So, I can't really comment on whether Masem's concerns are valid or not.
However, what I can say with certainty is that I think you would communicate your message better if you used shorter posts, ideally with more paragraph breaks. You may be interested in WP:TLDR. You may find that your message is more effective and received much more readily if you try to abide by these points. I know it's difficult; I tend to be very verbose myself :)
Anyway, just a suggestion. As I've said, I have no comment on the Wikiquette alert either way. -- Jaysweet ( talk) 13:52, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Pixelface -- please take a look at WP:WQA#WT:FICT compromise proposal, which I believe would address Masem's concern and allow us to put this issue behind us. (I also incidentally think it could make your arguments more effective) Let me know what you think. Thanks! -- Jaysweet ( talk) 14:45, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Hello! A couple of quick things: 1) we actually have 7 million editors? Wow! 2) I think it should be standard to notify all article creators and contributors of AfDs and DRVs, not simply a courtesy. 3) As you can see at this somewhat mind boggling ongoing discussion, some do indeed aggresively challenge you, I, and others about whether the plot section is disputed. I wonder if there would be a non-canvassing way to request that those who edit plot sections voice their opinions in the policy discussions in order to gain a more decisive consensus one war or the other? When I see comments like this posted in AfDs, I am not convinced that it's really just a couple of editors in any given discussion who dispute the sections under question, but a larger disagreement (lack of consensus) among the community? And as a general aside, I just don't see why so much focus on what Wikipedia is not rather than on building what Wikipedia is. And the way in which some assert that some articles are hopeless and cannot be improved is somewhat disquieting. Take this fictional character's article. Notice the lack of sources and context, i.e. in a state that surely some would use as cause for deletion if given the opportunity. Now look at the article after I did a search on a log on university search engine, i.e. something other than Google. No way would it possibly fail an AfD now. And it hardly took that much of my time to do, albeit it did require searching beyond Google. And there were even more sources (see Talk:Jim (Huckleberry Finn)) available than I used at the time. I just wish we could somehow encourage greater help in these efforts. I don't wish to "make enemies" or "get people banned" with whom I disagree. I really hope that all of us on the various sides of these discussions can coexist if not cooperate better and I really believe that what could help would be if more of the larger community were to chime in on these discussions as I at times feel like I don't know how many more times I can say certain things and I'm sure those with whom you and I usually disagree may even feel the same. Anyway, have a nice night! Sincerely, -- Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles Tally-ho! 08:38, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
Sorry, but the sentence shows up as "Áö³ 1¿ù Áß±¹¿¡ ¼öÃâµÈ '¿¡À̽º ¿Â¶óÀÎ'Àº Áö³ 9¿ùºÎÅÍ °ø°³¼ºñ½º ¸¦ ÁøÇàÇÏ¸ç µ¿½ÃÁ¢¼ÓÀÚ 2¸¸¸íÀ» ±â·ÏÇÏ°í ÀÖ´Ù". But if you haven't got it all ready translated, you may want to send an email to jimmy0704@naver.com.(no spams, please) Jimmy0704 ( talk) 12:02, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
It seems to mean this; Ace Online, which was exported to China on last January, provided open service since last September, and has had 20000 simultaneous players playing the game at a single moment. If you are not sure about a part of my translation, just tell me. Jimmy0704 ( talk) 04:01, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
There is currently an active discussion in WT:NOTE here regarding if there was a proposed rewrite of NOTE, what would people want to see. Knowing your stance on fiction topics, you may want to add your two cents here (I'm trying to make sure to note that there people that want inclusion of fiction in WP but right now that side is not well represented). -- MASEM 22:01, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
The above has been started by a user with whom you were apparently in dispute and so you may wish to comment there. Sincerely, -- Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles Tally-ho! 16:47, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
As you are a nice Wikipedian, I just wanted to wish you a happy Independence Day! And if you are not an American, then have a happy day and a wonderful weekend anyway! :) Your friend and colleague, --Happy Independence Day! Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles Tally-ho! 00:58, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
You seem to be documenting the history of notability, which means documenting some of the things I did. Let me try and explain some things if I can. this edit was made because I'd seen, um, WP:CORP, which by the way, heavily influenced my rewrite of WP:WEB, in January of 2006. That's when WP:WEB came to cover all web content. So then the phrase became inserted into most of the notability guidance. Back then I never really imagined it would become what it did become. Wikipedia was smaller, a lot smaller, and it didn't seem that important, after all, if I could just make this stuff up, anyone could just change it at a later date if they liked. That was the way we worked. Mea culpa. The staggering thing to me, is that words I wrote have become, I really don't know how to put this, but they appear to have become almost religiously followed, raised to some sort of biblical meaning that I just never intended. If I had my time again, I would never have done any of it, but it is too late now. The road to Hell is paved with good intentions. Also, you mention wanting to see the history of UGOPlayer. I've transwiki'd the page to [ [54]] so you can have a look. It was never my idea to equate notability with reliable sources, that's an old idea, that's an academic standard. Uncle G is, to my mind, the biggest proponent on Wikipedia. I tended to follow the thinking to a certain degree, but I've always had doubts as to how far it has extended. I was looking to guard against creating articles on everything. On you, on me, on the pencil on my table. I should not have worried, and should have trusted common sense. I apologise. I certainly agree with what I have written in my essay. Notability is subjective. Hiding T 12:06, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
Hi, I've seen you previously performed a merge involving The Addams Family (video game). I have proposed an additional merge of The Addams Family (arcade game) into The Addams Family (video game), as all these versions are basically identical. The arcade version would get preference in materal, however, as the other versions would also be mentioned but as ports of the arcade. If you want to provide input about the merger proposal place your thoughts here. Thank you, MuZemike ( talk) 22:14, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
It appears obvious now that the page List of people who died before the age of 30 is headed to deletion. I support its deletion myself. But this has given me an idea. Do you think it would make sense to have a set of categories called "Age x deaths," all in a parent category called "Deaths by age?" That seems like a better idea. This way, there would be no worry where to draw the line as to what age is "significant" as an age of death, and all ages people live to can possibly be included. There would be no need for one person to create all these categories in one day - they could be built gradually over time. We already have categories like 1949 deaths. Why can't we do the same with age? I would like some input. Sebwite ( talk) 23:13, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
Hi there! :)
As someone who's worked on D&D and/or RPG articles before, I'm inviting you to participate in our goal to both improve articles that have been selected to be placed in the next Wikipedia DVD release, as well as nominate more to be selected for this project. Please see the WikiProject D&D talk page for more details. :) BOZ ( talk) 18:24, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for uploading Image:Pandora tomorrow xbx.jpg. You've indicated that the image is being used under a claim of fair use, but you have not provided an adequate explanation for why it meets Wikipedia's requirements for such images. In particular, for each page the image is used on, the image must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Can you please check
This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. -- FairuseBot ( talk) 05:15, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
Hi Pixelface, Rather than the reversion of WP:NOT on Plot (which I agree with btw) I'd suggest an RfC. Right now you are tilting at windmills. A well-written RfC might be the way to actually keep change. Hobit ( talk) 16:55, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
I therefore propose that we work towards changing WP:NOT#PLOT into WP:NOT#COPY, which will emphasise the copyright aspect. This may command better support as being grounded in an objective respect for copyright law rather than a subjective dislike for extensive coverage of fictional topics.
What do you think? Colonel Warden ( talk) 17:37, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
I have placed a WP:AN/I on your repeated removal (over time) of PLOT. See here. -- MASEM 17:29, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
If you're going to insist on making childish remarks about my reasons for wanting to clean up fiction, please try to actually make some sense. I'm the one that actually got the merging for the Pokemon articles rolling. The plan was already there, but it was fairly stagnant until I bothered with it. The only reason I created any articles like that is because, like most people who start by editing fiction on this site, I was just following common practice rather than policies or guidelines (i.e. as long as it was major in the piece of fiction and it had content, it was deserving of an article). I eventually figured that most of the stuff was crap, and it went from there. TTN ( talk) 17:52, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
You'd do well to rephrase the first sentence of this edit. Angus McLellan (Talk) 21:18, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
please email me,even if you usually do not want to use email. DGG ( talk) 02:05, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
If you ever need me to chip in on a discussion re PLOT leave me a note on my talk page or email me. I'm not about much, but I'll be happy to offer my two cents, seeing as it was me what got us all into this mess in the first place, sort of. Apologies. Good luck with it. Hiding T 14:36, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for your input at my successful Rfa. I'm already thinking about working on my content creation. Hopefully in a few months, I'll have passed the point where you would've !voted Support. If you have any more equally well-thought-out suggestions on how I can improve myself as an editor, I'd be happy to hear them. I'd especially like to hear your thoughts on how the speedy deletion criteria A7 and A9 are not related to notability. The criteria state an article would meet the criteria if it "does not indicate why its subject is important or significant." I've always thought of these as the "assertion of notability" criteria. So when I think that an article fails A7 or A9, it's not that I merely think it isn't notable, it's that even the assertion of notability isn't present in the article. If the article asserts the notability, but can't back it up with sources, then that's something to PROD or take to Afd. I'd be interested in your thoughts on the matter.-- Aervanath lives in the Orphanage 21:16, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
Just a heads up, a proposal I informally made a while ago has now been formally offered at Wikipedia:Notability (fiction). The aim is to identify a pragmatic approach that reflects what is actually done on AfD, as opposed to an ideological approach. So while it's unlikely to appeal to partisans on either side, I think it represents a good and workable compromise. Any comments at Wikipedia talk:Notability (fiction) will be greatly appreciated. Phil Sandifer ( talk) 00:21, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
I'm not ignoring you; I'm just working through the questions in order. I hope to reply today but I have a stinking cold, which has been getting steadily worse over the weekend, and it's cramping my style somewhat. Apologies, -- ROGER DAVIES talk 09:37, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
Hi Pixelface, I wanted you to know that I have read your questions and have every intention of answering them; however, I probably won't get through them all tonight and will continue with them tomorrow. I figure you're not too late at all as long as the candidacy is live. :-) Risker ( talk) 05:45, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
I must've missed your questions the first time around, because I just now answered them here. I apologize for the delay! -- Hemlock Martinis ( talk) 23:09, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
Hey there.
Just a quick note to tell you that I have answered your followup questions on my candidacy Q&A page. — Coren (talk) 03:27, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
I think we feel similarly about fiction and wikia. Maybe we can get a fiction sister project rolling somehow? I've made comments at Wikipedia:Wikimedia sister projects a couple of times, which has led to nothing. Any ideas? - Peregrine Fisher ( talk) ( contribs) 06:08, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
I just checked and it says exactly what I expected it to say. My recent edits have been removing overly detailed plot and original research. You may also be interested to know that I supported the transwiki and deletion of several Xiaolin Showdown articles. I am a bureaucrat at the Xiaolin Showdown Wiki at Wikia. Wikipedia was not the place for most of those articles, and possibly the remainder. Jay32183 ( talk) 22:00, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
Hello, Pixelface. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. -- MASEM 07:18, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
Just so you know, the account on the xiaolinshowdown.wikia.com seems to be based on edits from transwikied articles that I redirected over here and the other one was just created to follow an AfD result of moving the article over there. I don't really care about the entire thing you have against the site, but you don't need to keep citing me as an example of some conspiracy. TTN ( talk) 20:17, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
Erm, you need email. I will make this more obvious-can you please email me?..Cheers,
Casliber (
talk ·
contribs)
22:11, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
I've answered the outstanding questions. Sorry that I did it at the eleventh hour but I've had real life problems (illness) and not been able to tackle things as quickly as I would have liked. My apologies, -- ROGER DAVIES talk 13:24, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
I think we've gotten off on the wrong foot, because we're used to discussing with arch-extreme inclusionsists or deletionists. I don't think anybody wants to keep wasting their time with polemics that just lead us down the same old debates. I wanted to show you that my efforts to find a middle ground are sincere, and that I don't expect you to just cave into my position. I see common goals, and I also see different goals that don't necessarily have to conflict. I'm not sure what else to say to convince you. Just that collaboration can lead to better results than pushing one side or another. It can even be satisfying. Randomran ( talk) 18:19, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
I think we're losing the thread again. We're back to "my position is closer to consensus" / "no mine". We should try to do better than pushing one extreme over another. I want to apologize for not focusing more on our common ground, because it's just meant that I've wasted your time and energy. So let me say that I appreciate your effort to reach out. I'd like to highlight one of your " earlier statements", because I think you were trying to get us to a workable compromise and I missed it:
So that I'm not taking your comment out of context, let me temper your effort to reach out with a concern you have:
I respect your concerns. We definitely don't want people removing information just because of a personal opinion. But I'm also asking you to respect my concerns, and work with me. Would you be willing to come up with a short statement about "too much detail" and staying "on topic"? In order to address your concerns about abuse, we would add a statement that would prevent it from being a weapon for people with an " WP:IHATEIT" bias. I'm willing to make concessions in order to find something you can agree to. But are you willing to propose some kind of statement, to be put in some kind of guideline? Randomran ( talk) 21:53, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
Thank you for endorsing one or more summaries in the RFC. Please note that two proposals have been put forward on how we can move on after the RFC: Casliber's proposal and Randomran's proposal. Please take the time to look over these proposals, and consider endorsing one of them, or writing one of your own. Thanks again for your participation! BOZ ( talk) 03:34, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
Hello! I really do think we need to distiguish between those who we can compromise with as I indicated at Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/Sgeureka#Oppose versus what seems like a real problem that really does need arbitration as seen at Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration#Request_to_amend_prior_case:_TTN. I really do think Sgeureka can be open-minded and I hope that others can too. Best, -- A Nobody My talk 06:33, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
Look, I've seen this go by many times and I've not been involved. Others have gotten into this with you many times and yet you persist.
Jack Merridew 12:33, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
Also; refer to me by my username. Jack Merridew 12:35, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
See; WP:DRAMA#Pixelface and WP:NOT#PLOT. I forgot to mention it. Jack Merridew 12:41, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
Please note that I have created an WP:RFC/U case on your recent editing behavior in order to try to work out some compromise. The RFC/U can be found Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Pixelface. -- MASEM 18:31, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
Hi,
I noticed you voted oppose in the flag revs straw pole and would like to ask if you would mind adding User:Promethean/No to your user or talk page to make your position clear to people who visit your page :) - Thanks to Neurolysis for the template «l| Ψrometheăn ™|l» (talk) 06:51, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
Your wiki-parody using "Prufrock" at [ [75]] was great, you should frame it. I agree with your interpretation that Kiellor was saying high-brow art is the reason for low-brow public taste, and with your argument that Wikipedia has too many intellectual snobs. Unfortunately the material after "Prufrock" really is WP:TLDR. I suggest you: summarise that to 2 fairly short paras; put the "Prufrock" parody in a right-floated div (with border, & poss bg colour) at the top of the section, so the height of the whole lot is not too daunting. -- Philcha ( talk) 14:34, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
fyi: User talk:Jimbo Wales#fan wars. I really have read through it three times. Cheers, Jack Merridew 15:34, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
I loved your seething expose and found it very useful here. I find even when i am on the losing side, i get comfort from the fact that these exposes will often come back and bite a person later.
I appreciate your work and I would be happy to help in anyway. Ikip ( talk) 08:54, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
No idea, no edits since late Dec. -- MASEM 14:53, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
Oops, sorry about that. I thought I was just the first to reply :P -- Helenalex ( talk) 21:38, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
Hello White Cat. I created a survey about fictional topics three months ago and I rewrote it recently and mentioned it at the village pump — it's at User:Pixelface/Fiction Survey 2009. I noticed this thread you started at the village pump about your questionnaire and I see it asks about fictional topics. Maybe we could combine the questionnaires somehow? If you'd rather not combine them, I'd be happy to edit yours if you want. I would also appreciate any edits to my survey. If you don't want to edit it, could you tell me what you think of the questions on its talk page? Thanks, -- Pixelface ( talk) 04:34, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
Please leave me a note when the survey is ready to be answered. [- Mgm| (talk) 10:47, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
I've noticed that Aka's tool doesn't go beyond "Conversion script" when it comes to the first edit.
i didn't quite understand that sentence!? 212.200.243.165 ( talk) 01:21, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
![]() |
The Tireless Contributor Barnstar | |
The Tireless Contributor Barnstar may be awarded to especially tireless Wikipedians who contribute an especially large body of work. This barnstar is awarded to Pixelface, for the incredible work he has done on User:Pixelface/Timeline of notability guidelines and other policy and guideline pages. Thank you so much for tireless striving to make wikipedia a welcome place for everyone's views, not just an elite few. Ikip ( talk) 10:50, 23 January 2009 (UTC) |
There is currently a straw poll at Wikipedia talk:Notability (fiction). Since this proposal may influence some of the articles covered by this project, any input there would be helpful to help build a consensus regarding the proposal. Thank you. Gavin Collins ( talk) 00:21, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
MuZemike 07:00, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
Please stop hounding Bignole with non-sequitors on WT:FICT. If you disagree with his comments, fine, reply and disagree. This kind of badgering is flamebait and that talk page has seen plenty enough of that. - A Man In Bl♟ck ( conspire - past ops) 13:11, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
Hooookay I just filled myself in on some of the context here. I stand by what I said above, but there's no sword of Damocles hanging here. I just don't want to see that turn into a bunch of hairball bullshit about "You're a hypocrite!" "No I'm not!" etc. You're not really interested in getting that article saved or deleted, you just want to make a point about how the inclusion standards for fiction make less sense than an Escher painting and are about as complicated (correct me if I'm wrong).
If that's where you are, I'm with you against them. All of this bullshit has been turned into Inclusionist/Deletionist Bout #227585432: Now It's Personal, and doesn't practically project into a scheme that makes emotional sense. I just don't want to see the outside position get marginalized as the troll/shitdisturber fringe.
(This was written before seeing the 13:35 comment.) - A Man In Bl♟ck ( conspire - past ops) 13:44, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
I hate to interfere, but what you say, Black, is not always possible. There are some users on this site who edit articles solely for fights. I mentioned this on the video game project talk page. There are two editors who have staked out certain articles and will randomly revert edits to start fights, even for games they have admittedly never played. Using the fine print and loopholes in Wikipedia's rules, they manage to get good info delete, wrong info kept, and then use their admin connections or instigation to get the user banned. With them, pointing out errors in their edits will do no good, since it is the users themselves who are the problems. Akari Kanzaki ( talk) 13:45, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
It's called an example of the point I was trying to make. You say focus only on the opinions and not the user who makes them, but I'm saying that's not always possible. As in my example, there are some users who edit for less-than-honorable reasons. Akari Kanzaki ( talk) 13:59, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
I have an objection to that. Why would we move this discussion onto MY talk page? My statement was in defense of what you said to Pixel, as part of THIS discussion. Akari Kanzaki ( talk) 14:06, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
No idea what you're talking about, since I'm not accusing anyone, nor does this have anything to do with misunderstandings. You are scolding Pixel for saying something against a user, advising them to instead speak about what the user is saying. I am commenting in relation to that that it's not always possible. If I just said it was impossible, it wouldn't be much of a point, so I offered an example. That's it. Akari Kanzaki ( talk) 14:18, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
I was using it as an example. Nothing can be done about those two users. I'm not getting banned. I'm doing what I can to get the articles fixed, but if they get wind of that, I'm going to get banned. It can still come down to conduct, though, even if it doesn't seem like it. Even though they can make it seem like they are following all the rules, because Wiki has so many of them, it is easy to find loopholes that allow users who only want to cause harm to do so. When it comes down to that, arguing their point becomes moot, since they'll just keep whipping out another policy or making accusations of their own. Just a point I was trying to make in general. Akari Kanzaki ( talk) 14:37, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
New to editing, maybe. I've still been here before and seen what goes on. Besides, it became quite a talked-about topic among fans. And I'm a fan. I've followed the argument, hoping right would win out, but I never joined in. That whole thing was actually why I avoided creating an account up until now. Akari Kanzaki ( talk) 15:32, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
It's not true. Not even in the slightest. I'll still probably be banned, though. I mentioned it above-many innocent editors were banned by her, because she's got friends who are admins here. Akari Kanzaki ( talk) 23:54, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
Oh, but Erigu coming here just to sarcastically claim I'm someone else and post a link to something completely unrelated to this discussion is fine? I know the facts. This kid has friends who are admins. Many people of many walks have opposed her-new uers, old users, and so on,-and she has gotten every single one of them banned as an alleged duplicate account. On top of that, she has gone so far as to harass this "SyberiaWinx", though their is no username that matches that on this site. She is just looking for people to target. It's no stretch to assume I'll get banned like all her other targets. I said from the beginning I would get targeted if word ever reached one of those two trolls, and I was right, wasn't I? Funny how no one ever calls them out on going around and flaming/accusing people. But to even target people not on Wikipedia, too... Why doesn't someone say something to her? Akari Kanzaki ( talk) 01:13, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
SPI? Remember, despite her claims, I am new here. I've no idea what that stands for... Akari Kanzaki ( talk) 01:34, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
I've already posted, but I'm not optomistic. It seems the method of attack this time is, "you must be a sockpuppet, because we can tie your name and some of the other sockpuppets names to Japanese pop-culture". It's going to be a long, stressful day... Akari Kanzaki ( talk) 01:47, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
You know, your last post on the guidelines talk page didn't make sense. You said didn't mean I was the first person to add a Top ten list section to the WALL-E article., but earlier you said WALL-E was the first article about a 2008 film that I added a Top ten list section to. Small contradiction between the two statements. Then when you said That was just the first article for a 2008 film I — personally — added a section too, I was pointing out that you hadn't *added* a section as I had added it weeks previously only to have it rewritten in prose...leading to the conversation being had on the other page. No worries, but you can see where one could get confused. SpikeJones ( talk) 22:56, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
I'm sorry to see you so down in the dumps, and in all honesty I don;t really have any answers for you. I understand your frustration. The idea of a poll is perhaps one you may want to look at pushing; but I think if you do feel that is the way forwards, you need to ask yourself which way the community is likely to poll. Do the majority of wikipedians support an encyclopedia with copious amounts of plot summary? To be honest, I think your energy would be better expended in either cleaning up articles so that they are well written, well sourced, concise and comprehensive. It is far harder to delete a page which looks like an encyclopedia article ought to, and which passes the spirit of WP:V, WP:NOR and WP:NPOV. Your other option is to look into convincing the community and/or the foundation to seriously consider the setting up of topic centred wiki's, or even one wiki, run on a not for profit basis but funded by advertising. Any surplus cash from the advertising once running costs are covered would be kicked back to either the foundation or perhaps a new charity which promotes values similar to that of the foundation. I'd be more than happy to work with you on that goal. Hiding T 09:48, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
See: Wikipedia:Village_pump_(miscellaneous)#Twenty_five_percent_of_wikipedia_is_fiction_articles.3F where your name is mentioned. We would love your input and explanation of where you got this number. Ikip ( talk) 14:23, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
If you don't know what "notable" means, please look it up isn't nice. I know how you feel about this issue, but please just tone it down a little? Even if you're right about advertising [his] afd just say it all sweet and bat your eyes, ok, please? brenneman 12:16, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
You may be interested in this essay. Ikip ( talk) 10:29, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
I'm going to adopt the mantra of Wikipedia:Dispute resolution and try to avoid engaging with you. It's no longer productive either for me or for you, it seems to cause stress in both of us, which is quite an unhealthy state and which should be avoided. I can't promise that I will never reply to anything you say, or that I will not edit in areas where you also edit, because we both share common interests. I will, however, attempt to avoid arguing with you, as it is counter-productive. Whilst I appreciate your point of view, I do not agree with your methods or your manner. I repeat the advice I gave you before, I think your energy would be better expended in cleaning up articles so that they are well written, well sourced, concise and comprehensive. I apologise for any offense I may have caused you with my off hand comment at WT:FICT. All the best, Hiding T 09:51, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
List of all policies and most guidelines, and their editing statistics (as of February 10, 2009)
links have combined page/talk statistics!
anyhow, i've noticed Masem is one of the most active editors on WT:NOT and WT:Notability fiction, and it seems to me that he is doing RfCU as a way to discredit one of his loudest opponents... 212.200.243.17 ( talk) 11:12, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
Hello! I am working on an objective alternate to notability in my userspace. Please read User:A Nobody/Inclusion guidelines and offer any suggestions on its talk page, which I will consider for revision purposes. If you do not do so, no worries, but if you wish to help, it is appreciated. Best, -- A Nobody My talk 01:52, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
Pixelface, you've been brought to ANI repeatedly over your attempts to disrupt certain guidelines that don't reflect your views (WP:NOT#PLOT and WP:N). You've been here long enough to know that when you disagree with a guideline or policy, especially a guideline or policy that has been widely accepted for years, you must discuss large-scale changes on the talk page. The guidelines are not intended to reflect the views of any individual editor, but of broad consensus, and at this point consensus does not appear to be anywhere close to what you would like the guideline to reflect. Until you can demonstrate that your view has significant support, you can't just start tagging sections as disputed. The WP:N dispute tags have been removed again, as discussion on the talk page does not demonstrate a large-scale dispute. If you add them back you will be blocked for edit-warring. Karanacs ( talk) 15:35, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
- If you have grounds to claim that a section was recently added or substantially altered in breach of the proper procedures for establishing consensus, then you may use {{disputedtag|section=yes|talk=Discussion Title}} instead.
- Like all editing tools, these can be overused, and be disruptive; please be sure that these are marking a real dispute.
- Bold editors of policy and guidelines pages are strongly encouraged to follow WP:1RR or WP:0RR standards. If your changes are removed, please make no further changes until the issue has been appropriately discussed on the talk page.
Whack!
A Nobody
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