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Archive 5 | ← | Archive 10 | Archive 11 | Archive 12 | Archive 13 | Archive 14 | Archive 15 |
at this link you will find probable vandalism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israr_Ahmed#New_Social_Engineering_Program_of_United_Nations_Organizations after checking whether the said author has said this, I found it to be completely false and baseless. I am waiting for references but even if provided, they too might be false or pseudo. Maybe you would like to clean it up in time!! Dr Pukhtunyar Afghan ( talk) 12:59, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
you mentioned modern ahirs as shudra which is ancient concept and hardly relevent in modern period for modern community.this is also not useful for readers because you alredy deleted good amount of ancient history of this community.so much of tussle going on discussion page both side accusing each other.you as an administrator have responsibility to keep faith in wikipedia of other contributors.so sir ,i request you to use OBCs word instead of Shudra which more relevent today and useful for readers.i hope you will take it positively. Bill clinton history ( talk) 13:31, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
ok I agree with you sir,keep shudra in article..but it is only one point of view of a controversial Topic ahir.there are other sources also mentioned them as OBCs, Cowherders,Nomads and Kshtriya.but these points have been completely deleted from article.we should have a comprehensive article for our readers with all relevent point of views from well cited information.it is very common in subject like history,sociology have different point of view of a topic.
Bill clinton history (
talk) 15:29, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
I have given some sources with refrence of coeherders and ancient kingdoms of ahirs on discussion page. Bill clinton history ( talk) 15:45, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
(od)(1)Catholic Germany almost wiped out Jews, and you say they don't define Jewish identity, and then you complain that I am stuck in one rut. Gimme a break. (2)You can check my user page's history, it had a Sanskrit verse to the effect that one who is proud about his caste is retarded, I aint a caste chauvinist if that is what you wish to know. Yogesh Khandke ( talk) 16:55, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
The rebuttal to "Sitush and MV lack expertise" would be "YK and TT2011 lack objectivity". Or we could flip the script and note the positive attributes both sides bring. It would be quite lovely if we could combine skillsets. MatthewVanitas ( talk) 18:24, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
( edit conflict)(1)You are in the dark because you never asked, I solicited to be asked and you are now offering it. (2)I have acknowledged your expertise about Wikipedia. No I am not even an under-graduate, but I have an emic perspective, that makes things easy for me, 35 years of input gives a person a little understanding (assuming I started to read at seven), things have been happening around me, I interact with people, that gives a person knowledge that would require an etic player exceptional effort to gain. (3)I feel the treatment is undue. (4)I disagree with the wp:OSE tag, you are using the term Shudra without clearly defining what it means, clearly we need to get the nomenclature in place before using it. Yogesh Khandke ( talk) 19:38, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
(od)(1)As I wrote on the talk page, what you (zebedee) write is ideal, no arguments regarding what the source should have said to have it to be acceptable. (2)Could we now have a definition of the word Shudra in the context of Kurmi, readers would like to know what Shudra is, what its implications were, once they know that Kurmi were sometime/onetime Shudra. Yogesh Khandke ( talk) 20:07, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
(od)It takes courage to say I was wrong. Yogesh Khandke ( talk) 07:01, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
I would like MV and Sitush to have a look at the article Madia Gond, which I created and have been a major contributor. It is also about a community. Yogesh Khandke ( talk) 20:22, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
Gazette circa 1850s. Copyright has expired. Yogesh Khandke ( talk) 20:35, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
(od)See article talk. Yogesh Khandke ( talk) 07:01, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
![]() |
The Original Barnstar |
Dear MathewVanitas
How are you? Please have a look to the ariticle Swami Nigamananda for its improvement. I really appreciate, I can say you are the director of this article and you contibuted a lot to it. I have formatted this article to a beautiful readable formate and added maximum reliable references(ISBN). Apart from this article, Swami Nigamananda, I have created many more articles like Nilachala Kutir Durga Charan Mohanty Nilachala Saraswata Sangha . I am expecting you to see those and submit your feedback as and when you are free. Best Regards India Dcmpuri ( talk) 04:11, 20 July 2011 (UTC) |
A
request for comment has been filed concerning the username of
I Jethrobot (
talk ·
contribs). You are invited to comment on the discussion
here.
I, Jethrobot
drop me a line (note: not a
bot!) 16:57, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
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Thanks for the work on the article on the Marathas! Suneetk ( talk) 02:17, 22 July 2011 (UTC) |
"WikiProject Report" would like to focus on WikiProject Firearms for a Signpost article. This is an excellent opportunity to draw attention to your efforts and attract new members to the project. Would you be willing to participate in an interview? If so, here are the questions for the interview. Just add your response below each question and feel free to skip any questions that you don't feel comfortable answering. Other editors will also have an opportunity to respond to the interview questions. If you know anyone else who would like to participate in the interview, please share this with them. Have a great day. - Mabeenot ( talk) 21:36, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Sitush ( talk) 06:55, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
Hello MatthewVanitas. I am just letting you know that I deleted Ghulam Muhammad Vastanvi, a page you tagged for speedy deletion, under a different criterion from the one you provided, which doesn't fit the page in question. Thank you. — Spaceman Spiff 19:18, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
I never accused anyone of malaise. I have named no one. Perhaps I have a right to ask why I am named and accused of the same. Yogesh Khandke ( talk) 03:34, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
Okay, explain it to me like I'm a four year old: how on earth is "No MV you do a reassessment. You are mis-handling to whole issue" related to the Oslo bombing? Not a riddle, you're the one drawing a comparison. And you failed to respond to my asking where I accused you of malaise, and then insist I'm putting words in your mouth? How can I possibly read your above without assuming you're comparing me to the Oslo bomber? Regarding "keep it on one page", no these are different issues: I'm telling you I will take you to ANI if you attempt to smear anyone using that silly blog again. You have no reason to link to ludicrous accusations off-site except to attack others credibility. And you can quit your silly attempts to defend as "I don't support the blog, I just think it's interesting", especially as you've deflated those yourself with your implications that "it's just a matter of time" until Jimbo investigates and bans us over an unsourced blog. These are blatant personal attacks, and you're not backing off from them in the slightest. MatthewVanitas ( talk) 18:17, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
( edit conflict)::Does anyone think that people are retarded and think it is about money? (I said the same thing to Zeebedee, four days ago [4]) Or is a lot of noise being made to divert attention, also check this [5]. There is another editor with whom I won't interact, not atleast unless I see a paradigm shift in his behaviour, (he even reverted talk page edits [6]), if you think I am a pain in your neck, I won't let my shadow fall on you, I am wasting your time because you came across as reasonable to me. Please let me know. Yogesh Khandke ( talk) 18:40, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
FFS! - Sitush ( talk) 07:42, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
![]() |
The Original Barnstar |
For sub-categorization of the items in Category:Rajputs. Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 10:08, 27 July 2011 (UTC) |
One small note about edit requests. Those who are "readers" (i.e., not really editors) may not actually even know about the talk page's existence. If a page is semi-protected, there's a button that a user can push that says something like "Suggest a change to this article". That gives the user a pop-up box to fill in what they think needs to be change; when they submit it, it automatically goes onto the article talk page. So the IP who asked about kshatriya may be genuinely unaware of the massive conversation. Qwyrxian ( talk) 22:30, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
is this source of any use to you? - Sitush ( talk) 08:14, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
Greetings. There is a discussion in Talk:Kamma_(caste). Please can you give your response there. thank you. Foodie 377 ( talk) 10:36, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
I have left a message for you in the Kamma Discussion Page. Thanks. -- = No ||| Illusion = ( talk) 02:25, 29 July 2011 (UTC)Mayasutra
I assume you watch User Talk:Sitush, but just to clarify your input would help on Varna infoboxes. Of course, we eventually need to take this to a wider audience, but easier to start with fewer. Qwyrxian ( talk) 00:49, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
As I said above, I've taken Yogesh to ANI, in the course of which I mentioned your name; you can see and respond to the discussion at WP:ANI#Personal attacks by Yogesh Khandke. Qwyrxian ( talk) 03:29, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
Thanks Matthewvanitas for your guidance. Bill clinton history ( talk) 07:25, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard#How_to_deal_with_tendentious_editing.3F. You are not named: this is just so you know, given your heavy involvement. - Sitush ( talk) 16:51, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
Hi Mathew. When you have time, can you please go over the following @ Kunduz Province. The IP has added percentages and used a source which cannot be verified. According to all the sources, Pashtuns are in majority in Kunduz. Discussion page, [ this source and Kunduz_Province#Districts might help as well. This IP clearly has an anti-Pashtun POV agenda based on his current contribution. I really don't know why admins consider his edits as content dispute rather than disruptive editing and vandalism. Thank you ( Ketabtoon ( talk) 05:41, 1 August 2011 (UTC))
In which pages has the Caste template been used? Is there a list? Thanks. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 20:26, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
If you can see it, please could you have a look around page 277 of this. I am expecting it to say something about a Muslim ruler's tolerance towards Hindus in Kashmir c. 15th C. - Sitush ( talk) 16:01, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
In May you commented about this proto-article; thank you very much for those comments.
Some work has subsequently done with the result now at Tain Museum.
Please cast your eye over this again and let us know your assessment.
Thanks - MrDuthac ( talk) 09:39, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
I invite you to this discussion [9] Pass a Method talk 01:40, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
do you know who was Khafi khan and who was jayram, khafi khan was mughal historian and jayaram was poet of shivaji court in 17th century , the claims made by dalits is just a way to motivate the low esteem dalit people, plz provide one evidence of shivaji belonging to non-rajput origin which dates back to shivaji era(not books by historians) just because Einstein is einstein it dont mean we will believe anything similarly untill not evidence is given to prove shivaji non-rajput origin nothing can be said or written, i guess shivaji know more about himself than jadunath sarkar and he was sure about his rajput origin and untill no evidence is provided i will not let any non-rajput origin came in the way because history is made by evidences and not by historians. 115.240.7.109 ( talk) 07:47, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
( talk page stalker)Actually, you're wrong, at least as far as Wikipedia is concerned. We always look to what historians have said about subjects, not what a primary source may or may not mean. In fact, as a general rule, primary sources aren't even allowed as verification on Wikipedia. Now, I don't even know what article you're talking about, but if the bulk of historians are saying one thing, and one specific letter from 400 years ago says another, Wikipedia will side with the historians, every time. We may, depending on the exact details, also include the info about the old source, but that depends on a lot of complicated issues to be worked out via consensus. However, please do not attempt to edit Wikipedia focusing only on what one specific historical document says; that violates several of our policies, and so can't be allowed. Thanks. Qwyrxian ( talk) 08:42, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
if you are on wikipedia for so much time then plz give me one single piece of evidence from shivaji era(not now) which gives the fact that shivaji was not a rajput, so first give the evidence just as i have did, the letter of shahji(siivaji father) is still in ghorpade museum which he writes in 1643 in which he calls himself a rajput and the link is already provided, historians with vested interests specially dalits are trying to claim shivaji in order to show their bravery but first give evidence then their will be additional origin of shivaji but untill then only rajput origin because historians no matter how much famous they are dont create any evidence you need evidence from that era. 115.240.7.109 ( talk) 08:02, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
Please check the book by noted historian Jadunath Sarkar on how the brahmins of the day regarded Shivaji as a Shudra and how he in turn got the learned Gaga bhatt to create a Kshtriya lineage for him in order to get crowned. The book also talks about the greediness of the brahmins of the day. [10],page 242. The gbook is searchable. . When the local brahmins denied his Kshatriya claim, Shivaji in turn asked all his brahmin administrators to resign and get back to their traditional pursuit of puja and surviving on "bhikshuki". The book or certainly this section is very entertaining.
Also if Maloji Bhosle cared much about his Rajput Hindu heritage, would give names with islamic undertones to his kids such as Shahaji and Sharifji ? All these varnas are /were created by brahmins for their own benefits. Did Shivaji really need the stamp of being Rajput to gain respect ? I don't think so. After all,the brahmins of the day were happy to serve him before he got Gaga to create a Rajput genealogy for him. For me, his Maratha identity is enough. I don't care about a lineage from a far away land like Rajputana. Shivaji and Shahaji were Marathi Bhoomiputra and that is good enough. Jonathansammy ( talk) 20:12, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
yes this shows the knowledge of history the sons of maloji named shahji and sharifji because the sons were born after a muslim sufi saint "Shah Sharif" give some food(Sawai-muslim dish) to maloji so that his wife can bear sons and from their came the name shahji and sharifji. OMG these are wikipedia administrators who do not know how the muslim names of maloji son came. Second who the hell is jadunath sarkar was he their when the so called local brahmins refused shivaji. And whats the gurantee that if shivaji was coronated by local brahmins then these historians would have not "accused him of getting coronated by a local marathi brahmin who has no reputation". Be it "albert einstein or issac newton" all of them have to prove the fact and not to speculate and second James tod is much bigger and better historian(not only historian but an arachaelogist as well, findings of many ancient artifacts are credited to that man). Similarly many historian "KHAFI KHAN" was a mughal historian of 17th century and he knew more about Shivaji rather than the useless jadunath sarkar, India's best historian was "RC MAJUMDAR" but unfortunately he did not do much work on shivaji his interest was Maurya empire and chandragupta similarly many other prominent indian historian like RK MOOKERJEE(also the former MP of indian Parliement) did not do any work on it therefore we cannot take the voice of only one man Jadunath sarkar. Khafi khan and James tod are much closer to Shivaji era and has better understanding the non-rajput origin claim started as late as 20th century(300 years after shivaji death) which itself shows the dubious intention of those who create such claims. And things like "Brahmins were given money to make Shivaji a rajput then how about this why shivaji didnt give money to local brahmin infact as a marathi he should be more partial towards shivaji."
Things like this "that local brahmins refuseds shivaji" or "gaga bhatt was give so much money" these will come in category of speculations and not evidence and DR RK MOOKERJEE once said "SPECULATION has no space in history". Let the ancient facts be their and provide the facts and evidences which prove non-rajput origin of Shivaji. I am betting right here i will not make a single edit on wikipedia after that if someone can furnish a single evidence from Shivaji era of his non rajput origin. further if i am not wrong the Persian sanads(documents) released by mudhol state was after jadunath sarkar wrote his book the persian sanads prove it beyond doubt that Shivaji house(satara) and thanjjore were descendants of sisodia rana of mewar. 122.161.14.246 ( talk) 05:54, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
second thing mate to say that one historical account i dont think so the historical accounts which prove shivaji rajput origin is confirmed by all writers be it hindu, muslims, persian. The indian writers and historians of 17th 18th century have confirmed shivaji rajput origin, mughal historian khafi khan(the documents are kept in aligarh muslim univ(AMU),UP dept of historical records of mughal era), and by persian sanads now what you want so mate to dismiss these 7-8 historical accounts just because one famous historian(jadunath sarkar) say so will be completely wrong and will show bias the fact is that the article do mention that Jadunath sarkar opposed the theory and similarly it mentions all the historical accounts(all of them point towards sisodia origin) then why are some editors so nervous let the users decide which is right and which is wrong the article gives various origin(though only one is supported by evidences). By that can we say that Alexander the great was defeated by Hindu King Porus because most historians write that alexander faired poorly against Indian King Porus. Therefore i think you guys are not going through the complete article infact most of you are strongly biased know almost nothing about shivaji and his family(the user who said that how maloji named his sons sharif and shahji) Dont mind but the "JI " you see in the names of these marathi rajputs have come from SINH(rajput title) the corruption of word "SINH" turn it into "JIH OR JI" but i guess most of you are very innocent of indian history and grammer.
122.161.14.246 (
talk) 06:01, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
"It is related that Shahji's father Maloji was childless for a long time, and it was only after he had prayed at the tomb of a Muslim saint Shah Sharif that he was blessed with two sons, one in 1594 and the other in 1597". ... i guess from most of your attitude i fear for neutrality on this great site(no offence some editors are great), the thing which i have understood is that most of you are completely ignorant of shivaji life and history.
That user who said why a rajput will name his son "SHAH JI AND SHARIF JI" i guess i have answered your question now take this "VIR HAMIR SINGH" hamir is a muslim name isnt it but he was a sisodiya rajput(shivaji ancestor) who defeated alaudin khilji army and recapture the rajasthan from muslims. Take this "GULAB SINGH" the hindu rajput general of Sikh empire who led sikh forces in the capture of kashmir, multan, yousafzai tribes who was once regarded as right hand of "MAHARAJA RANJIT SINGH" of sikh empire . Now most commonly "gulab" is a muslim name. Your question is so silly that it made me scare that editors like you edit pages on wikipedia and editors like me who hold far superior knowledge is cornered so that the truth (or say one opinion) does not come out in open. 122.161.14.246 ( talk) 06:07, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
oh yeah shahji was a marathi bhoomiputra!!!!! , who the hell said you the letter of shahji which is kept in ghorpade museum in which he wrote to adil shah he clearly wrote that he is "RAJPUT" and not a marathi bhoomiputra. Who is the CM of maharastra Prithviraj Chavan he is a rajput just because chauhan become chavan dont mean he is not a rajput and second thing what you want to say , you are asking me to delete those because those facts and evidences prove the rajput origin of shivaji. The poem on shahji was composed 23 years before shivaji coronation and it mentions maloji as the descendant of rana of mewar. Now what that poet too is a marathi brahmin search the legendary marathi poet of 17th century who also was in shivaji court. Most important thing just as you all know gaga bhatt what was the name of that so called created Marathi brahmin who refused shivaji demand to coronate him, this is nothing but speculation how can anyone know this was their any writing from that time which prove this fact and if gaga bhatt was greedy why not a single marathi brahmin was greedy even though poet of jayaram is a marathi brhamin and he mentions maloji as rajput of mewar . The claims of 20th century needs to be dismissed as a pure fiction.
122.161.14.246 (
talk) 06:15, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
and you plz read the book by much more noted historian,archaelogists and head of british india intelligence Col james tod and sir williamson hunter their books prove it without any doubt the rajput origin of not only shivaji but many more maratha generals and soldiers like "RANE","MORE""JADHAV""DESHMUKH""CHAVAN""PAWAR".
i think most people here refer to only jadunath sarkar because he is opposing rajput origin what about HC ojha he is also one of the most prominent indian historian and what about much more famous and more noted historian Col James tod he was criticized by many but his works are just too solid to be challenged , even einstein was challenged and mocked when he gave theory of relativity and now everyone of us know einstein because of that and not because of photoelectric effect.HC OJHA and Col James tod easily tackle the questions raised by historians who oppose rajput origin. 122.161.14.246 ( talk) 06:24, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
sorry but i fear that editors with knowledge like you handle all these articles, if you want delete that from shivaji page but wil you not violate wiki policy that as many origins should be proposed. Similarly one of you said one historical account. Are you serious khafi khan was a well known historian in mughal era who used to sit in delhi. Similarly at one side the critics are saying marathi brahmin refused to coronate shivaji its false because the writer of poems on shivaji and shahji is a marathi brahmin himself , similarly many poets of that era who were brahmins clearly mention shivaji as rajput. Further now its impossible to find his real caste but those people who have live their whole lives with shahji,maloji and shivaji were fully aware of their rajput origin now whatever you try you cannot have surety. The evidences are from indian writer, from mughal writers and from persian writers and if someone says that this is one historical evidence then its disgusting and shows the bias. Jadunath sircar point is already their so is rajput origin let both remain and let the reader decide some will say shivaji a rajput some will say shivaji a non rajput.But the big fact if shivaji is not rajput then what was his caste did sir jadunath sircar answered this question , has anyone of us seen "Nuclear forces" answer is no but untill any alternate explanation is given till then nuclear forces will remain like that similarly the non-rajput origin is under cloud some claim he is lingayat, some balippa, some hoysale and some claim he was dalit . I guess most of you will try to see the reasoning sir jadunath sircar was great historian but many great historians do not agree with each other. The best example is of marxist historian such as rs sharma, romilla thapar the books by them are banned(yes banned) in india top most univ such as DU(DELHI UNIV), BHU(Benaras hindu univ), even AMU(aligarh muslim univ). The most trusted historian in india was RC MAJUMDAR most university of india recommend one rc majumdar and hc raychoudhari in foreign writers sir alexander cunningham and vincent smith names are eminent but unfortunately not a single of these writers wrote about shivaji origin. But james tod contribution to indian history is equal to that of vincent a smith and cunningham in foreign writers and he proved shivaji rajput origin, therefore sircar views are not undisputable at all. 122.161.14.246 ( talk) 08:31, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
Those who are saying most historians have this view is mainly false because apart from sir jadunath sircar no prominent historian opposes shivaji rajput origin. Historians such as Col James tod and HC ojha consider shivaji and many more maratha as rajputs they further stated that neither the colour nor language of these maratha matched those of dravidians(south india people). The thing can be said if atleast one of the major historians such as rc majumdar, hc raychoudhari or rk mookerji have confirmed it but none of them wrote anything about shivaji origin(though rc majumdar wrote extensively on shivaji but not his origin).
122.161.14.246 (
talk) 09:55, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 5 | ← | Archive 10 | Archive 11 | Archive 12 | Archive 13 | Archive 14 | Archive 15 |
at this link you will find probable vandalism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israr_Ahmed#New_Social_Engineering_Program_of_United_Nations_Organizations after checking whether the said author has said this, I found it to be completely false and baseless. I am waiting for references but even if provided, they too might be false or pseudo. Maybe you would like to clean it up in time!! Dr Pukhtunyar Afghan ( talk) 12:59, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
you mentioned modern ahirs as shudra which is ancient concept and hardly relevent in modern period for modern community.this is also not useful for readers because you alredy deleted good amount of ancient history of this community.so much of tussle going on discussion page both side accusing each other.you as an administrator have responsibility to keep faith in wikipedia of other contributors.so sir ,i request you to use OBCs word instead of Shudra which more relevent today and useful for readers.i hope you will take it positively. Bill clinton history ( talk) 13:31, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
ok I agree with you sir,keep shudra in article..but it is only one point of view of a controversial Topic ahir.there are other sources also mentioned them as OBCs, Cowherders,Nomads and Kshtriya.but these points have been completely deleted from article.we should have a comprehensive article for our readers with all relevent point of views from well cited information.it is very common in subject like history,sociology have different point of view of a topic.
Bill clinton history (
talk) 15:29, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
I have given some sources with refrence of coeherders and ancient kingdoms of ahirs on discussion page. Bill clinton history ( talk) 15:45, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
(od)(1)Catholic Germany almost wiped out Jews, and you say they don't define Jewish identity, and then you complain that I am stuck in one rut. Gimme a break. (2)You can check my user page's history, it had a Sanskrit verse to the effect that one who is proud about his caste is retarded, I aint a caste chauvinist if that is what you wish to know. Yogesh Khandke ( talk) 16:55, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
The rebuttal to "Sitush and MV lack expertise" would be "YK and TT2011 lack objectivity". Or we could flip the script and note the positive attributes both sides bring. It would be quite lovely if we could combine skillsets. MatthewVanitas ( talk) 18:24, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
( edit conflict)(1)You are in the dark because you never asked, I solicited to be asked and you are now offering it. (2)I have acknowledged your expertise about Wikipedia. No I am not even an under-graduate, but I have an emic perspective, that makes things easy for me, 35 years of input gives a person a little understanding (assuming I started to read at seven), things have been happening around me, I interact with people, that gives a person knowledge that would require an etic player exceptional effort to gain. (3)I feel the treatment is undue. (4)I disagree with the wp:OSE tag, you are using the term Shudra without clearly defining what it means, clearly we need to get the nomenclature in place before using it. Yogesh Khandke ( talk) 19:38, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
(od)(1)As I wrote on the talk page, what you (zebedee) write is ideal, no arguments regarding what the source should have said to have it to be acceptable. (2)Could we now have a definition of the word Shudra in the context of Kurmi, readers would like to know what Shudra is, what its implications were, once they know that Kurmi were sometime/onetime Shudra. Yogesh Khandke ( talk) 20:07, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
(od)It takes courage to say I was wrong. Yogesh Khandke ( talk) 07:01, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
I would like MV and Sitush to have a look at the article Madia Gond, which I created and have been a major contributor. It is also about a community. Yogesh Khandke ( talk) 20:22, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
Gazette circa 1850s. Copyright has expired. Yogesh Khandke ( talk) 20:35, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
(od)See article talk. Yogesh Khandke ( talk) 07:01, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
![]() |
The Original Barnstar |
Dear MathewVanitas
How are you? Please have a look to the ariticle Swami Nigamananda for its improvement. I really appreciate, I can say you are the director of this article and you contibuted a lot to it. I have formatted this article to a beautiful readable formate and added maximum reliable references(ISBN). Apart from this article, Swami Nigamananda, I have created many more articles like Nilachala Kutir Durga Charan Mohanty Nilachala Saraswata Sangha . I am expecting you to see those and submit your feedback as and when you are free. Best Regards India Dcmpuri ( talk) 04:11, 20 July 2011 (UTC) |
A
request for comment has been filed concerning the username of
I Jethrobot (
talk ·
contribs). You are invited to comment on the discussion
here.
I, Jethrobot
drop me a line (note: not a
bot!) 16:57, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
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Thanks for the work on the article on the Marathas! Suneetk ( talk) 02:17, 22 July 2011 (UTC) |
"WikiProject Report" would like to focus on WikiProject Firearms for a Signpost article. This is an excellent opportunity to draw attention to your efforts and attract new members to the project. Would you be willing to participate in an interview? If so, here are the questions for the interview. Just add your response below each question and feel free to skip any questions that you don't feel comfortable answering. Other editors will also have an opportunity to respond to the interview questions. If you know anyone else who would like to participate in the interview, please share this with them. Have a great day. - Mabeenot ( talk) 21:36, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Sitush ( talk) 06:55, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
Hello MatthewVanitas. I am just letting you know that I deleted Ghulam Muhammad Vastanvi, a page you tagged for speedy deletion, under a different criterion from the one you provided, which doesn't fit the page in question. Thank you. — Spaceman Spiff 19:18, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
I never accused anyone of malaise. I have named no one. Perhaps I have a right to ask why I am named and accused of the same. Yogesh Khandke ( talk) 03:34, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
Okay, explain it to me like I'm a four year old: how on earth is "No MV you do a reassessment. You are mis-handling to whole issue" related to the Oslo bombing? Not a riddle, you're the one drawing a comparison. And you failed to respond to my asking where I accused you of malaise, and then insist I'm putting words in your mouth? How can I possibly read your above without assuming you're comparing me to the Oslo bomber? Regarding "keep it on one page", no these are different issues: I'm telling you I will take you to ANI if you attempt to smear anyone using that silly blog again. You have no reason to link to ludicrous accusations off-site except to attack others credibility. And you can quit your silly attempts to defend as "I don't support the blog, I just think it's interesting", especially as you've deflated those yourself with your implications that "it's just a matter of time" until Jimbo investigates and bans us over an unsourced blog. These are blatant personal attacks, and you're not backing off from them in the slightest. MatthewVanitas ( talk) 18:17, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
( edit conflict)::Does anyone think that people are retarded and think it is about money? (I said the same thing to Zeebedee, four days ago [4]) Or is a lot of noise being made to divert attention, also check this [5]. There is another editor with whom I won't interact, not atleast unless I see a paradigm shift in his behaviour, (he even reverted talk page edits [6]), if you think I am a pain in your neck, I won't let my shadow fall on you, I am wasting your time because you came across as reasonable to me. Please let me know. Yogesh Khandke ( talk) 18:40, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
FFS! - Sitush ( talk) 07:42, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
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The Original Barnstar |
For sub-categorization of the items in Category:Rajputs. Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 10:08, 27 July 2011 (UTC) |
One small note about edit requests. Those who are "readers" (i.e., not really editors) may not actually even know about the talk page's existence. If a page is semi-protected, there's a button that a user can push that says something like "Suggest a change to this article". That gives the user a pop-up box to fill in what they think needs to be change; when they submit it, it automatically goes onto the article talk page. So the IP who asked about kshatriya may be genuinely unaware of the massive conversation. Qwyrxian ( talk) 22:30, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
is this source of any use to you? - Sitush ( talk) 08:14, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
Greetings. There is a discussion in Talk:Kamma_(caste). Please can you give your response there. thank you. Foodie 377 ( talk) 10:36, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
I have left a message for you in the Kamma Discussion Page. Thanks. -- = No ||| Illusion = ( talk) 02:25, 29 July 2011 (UTC)Mayasutra
I assume you watch User Talk:Sitush, but just to clarify your input would help on Varna infoboxes. Of course, we eventually need to take this to a wider audience, but easier to start with fewer. Qwyrxian ( talk) 00:49, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
As I said above, I've taken Yogesh to ANI, in the course of which I mentioned your name; you can see and respond to the discussion at WP:ANI#Personal attacks by Yogesh Khandke. Qwyrxian ( talk) 03:29, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
Thanks Matthewvanitas for your guidance. Bill clinton history ( talk) 07:25, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard#How_to_deal_with_tendentious_editing.3F. You are not named: this is just so you know, given your heavy involvement. - Sitush ( talk) 16:51, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
Hi Mathew. When you have time, can you please go over the following @ Kunduz Province. The IP has added percentages and used a source which cannot be verified. According to all the sources, Pashtuns are in majority in Kunduz. Discussion page, [ this source and Kunduz_Province#Districts might help as well. This IP clearly has an anti-Pashtun POV agenda based on his current contribution. I really don't know why admins consider his edits as content dispute rather than disruptive editing and vandalism. Thank you ( Ketabtoon ( talk) 05:41, 1 August 2011 (UTC))
In which pages has the Caste template been used? Is there a list? Thanks. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 20:26, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
If you can see it, please could you have a look around page 277 of this. I am expecting it to say something about a Muslim ruler's tolerance towards Hindus in Kashmir c. 15th C. - Sitush ( talk) 16:01, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
In May you commented about this proto-article; thank you very much for those comments.
Some work has subsequently done with the result now at Tain Museum.
Please cast your eye over this again and let us know your assessment.
Thanks - MrDuthac ( talk) 09:39, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
I invite you to this discussion [9] Pass a Method talk 01:40, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
do you know who was Khafi khan and who was jayram, khafi khan was mughal historian and jayaram was poet of shivaji court in 17th century , the claims made by dalits is just a way to motivate the low esteem dalit people, plz provide one evidence of shivaji belonging to non-rajput origin which dates back to shivaji era(not books by historians) just because Einstein is einstein it dont mean we will believe anything similarly untill not evidence is given to prove shivaji non-rajput origin nothing can be said or written, i guess shivaji know more about himself than jadunath sarkar and he was sure about his rajput origin and untill no evidence is provided i will not let any non-rajput origin came in the way because history is made by evidences and not by historians. 115.240.7.109 ( talk) 07:47, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
( talk page stalker)Actually, you're wrong, at least as far as Wikipedia is concerned. We always look to what historians have said about subjects, not what a primary source may or may not mean. In fact, as a general rule, primary sources aren't even allowed as verification on Wikipedia. Now, I don't even know what article you're talking about, but if the bulk of historians are saying one thing, and one specific letter from 400 years ago says another, Wikipedia will side with the historians, every time. We may, depending on the exact details, also include the info about the old source, but that depends on a lot of complicated issues to be worked out via consensus. However, please do not attempt to edit Wikipedia focusing only on what one specific historical document says; that violates several of our policies, and so can't be allowed. Thanks. Qwyrxian ( talk) 08:42, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
if you are on wikipedia for so much time then plz give me one single piece of evidence from shivaji era(not now) which gives the fact that shivaji was not a rajput, so first give the evidence just as i have did, the letter of shahji(siivaji father) is still in ghorpade museum which he writes in 1643 in which he calls himself a rajput and the link is already provided, historians with vested interests specially dalits are trying to claim shivaji in order to show their bravery but first give evidence then their will be additional origin of shivaji but untill then only rajput origin because historians no matter how much famous they are dont create any evidence you need evidence from that era. 115.240.7.109 ( talk) 08:02, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
Please check the book by noted historian Jadunath Sarkar on how the brahmins of the day regarded Shivaji as a Shudra and how he in turn got the learned Gaga bhatt to create a Kshtriya lineage for him in order to get crowned. The book also talks about the greediness of the brahmins of the day. [10],page 242. The gbook is searchable. . When the local brahmins denied his Kshatriya claim, Shivaji in turn asked all his brahmin administrators to resign and get back to their traditional pursuit of puja and surviving on "bhikshuki". The book or certainly this section is very entertaining.
Also if Maloji Bhosle cared much about his Rajput Hindu heritage, would give names with islamic undertones to his kids such as Shahaji and Sharifji ? All these varnas are /were created by brahmins for their own benefits. Did Shivaji really need the stamp of being Rajput to gain respect ? I don't think so. After all,the brahmins of the day were happy to serve him before he got Gaga to create a Rajput genealogy for him. For me, his Maratha identity is enough. I don't care about a lineage from a far away land like Rajputana. Shivaji and Shahaji were Marathi Bhoomiputra and that is good enough. Jonathansammy ( talk) 20:12, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
yes this shows the knowledge of history the sons of maloji named shahji and sharifji because the sons were born after a muslim sufi saint "Shah Sharif" give some food(Sawai-muslim dish) to maloji so that his wife can bear sons and from their came the name shahji and sharifji. OMG these are wikipedia administrators who do not know how the muslim names of maloji son came. Second who the hell is jadunath sarkar was he their when the so called local brahmins refused shivaji. And whats the gurantee that if shivaji was coronated by local brahmins then these historians would have not "accused him of getting coronated by a local marathi brahmin who has no reputation". Be it "albert einstein or issac newton" all of them have to prove the fact and not to speculate and second James tod is much bigger and better historian(not only historian but an arachaelogist as well, findings of many ancient artifacts are credited to that man). Similarly many historian "KHAFI KHAN" was a mughal historian of 17th century and he knew more about Shivaji rather than the useless jadunath sarkar, India's best historian was "RC MAJUMDAR" but unfortunately he did not do much work on shivaji his interest was Maurya empire and chandragupta similarly many other prominent indian historian like RK MOOKERJEE(also the former MP of indian Parliement) did not do any work on it therefore we cannot take the voice of only one man Jadunath sarkar. Khafi khan and James tod are much closer to Shivaji era and has better understanding the non-rajput origin claim started as late as 20th century(300 years after shivaji death) which itself shows the dubious intention of those who create such claims. And things like "Brahmins were given money to make Shivaji a rajput then how about this why shivaji didnt give money to local brahmin infact as a marathi he should be more partial towards shivaji."
Things like this "that local brahmins refuseds shivaji" or "gaga bhatt was give so much money" these will come in category of speculations and not evidence and DR RK MOOKERJEE once said "SPECULATION has no space in history". Let the ancient facts be their and provide the facts and evidences which prove non-rajput origin of Shivaji. I am betting right here i will not make a single edit on wikipedia after that if someone can furnish a single evidence from Shivaji era of his non rajput origin. further if i am not wrong the Persian sanads(documents) released by mudhol state was after jadunath sarkar wrote his book the persian sanads prove it beyond doubt that Shivaji house(satara) and thanjjore were descendants of sisodia rana of mewar. 122.161.14.246 ( talk) 05:54, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
second thing mate to say that one historical account i dont think so the historical accounts which prove shivaji rajput origin is confirmed by all writers be it hindu, muslims, persian. The indian writers and historians of 17th 18th century have confirmed shivaji rajput origin, mughal historian khafi khan(the documents are kept in aligarh muslim univ(AMU),UP dept of historical records of mughal era), and by persian sanads now what you want so mate to dismiss these 7-8 historical accounts just because one famous historian(jadunath sarkar) say so will be completely wrong and will show bias the fact is that the article do mention that Jadunath sarkar opposed the theory and similarly it mentions all the historical accounts(all of them point towards sisodia origin) then why are some editors so nervous let the users decide which is right and which is wrong the article gives various origin(though only one is supported by evidences). By that can we say that Alexander the great was defeated by Hindu King Porus because most historians write that alexander faired poorly against Indian King Porus. Therefore i think you guys are not going through the complete article infact most of you are strongly biased know almost nothing about shivaji and his family(the user who said that how maloji named his sons sharif and shahji) Dont mind but the "JI " you see in the names of these marathi rajputs have come from SINH(rajput title) the corruption of word "SINH" turn it into "JIH OR JI" but i guess most of you are very innocent of indian history and grammer.
122.161.14.246 (
talk) 06:01, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
"It is related that Shahji's father Maloji was childless for a long time, and it was only after he had prayed at the tomb of a Muslim saint Shah Sharif that he was blessed with two sons, one in 1594 and the other in 1597". ... i guess from most of your attitude i fear for neutrality on this great site(no offence some editors are great), the thing which i have understood is that most of you are completely ignorant of shivaji life and history.
That user who said why a rajput will name his son "SHAH JI AND SHARIF JI" i guess i have answered your question now take this "VIR HAMIR SINGH" hamir is a muslim name isnt it but he was a sisodiya rajput(shivaji ancestor) who defeated alaudin khilji army and recapture the rajasthan from muslims. Take this "GULAB SINGH" the hindu rajput general of Sikh empire who led sikh forces in the capture of kashmir, multan, yousafzai tribes who was once regarded as right hand of "MAHARAJA RANJIT SINGH" of sikh empire . Now most commonly "gulab" is a muslim name. Your question is so silly that it made me scare that editors like you edit pages on wikipedia and editors like me who hold far superior knowledge is cornered so that the truth (or say one opinion) does not come out in open. 122.161.14.246 ( talk) 06:07, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
oh yeah shahji was a marathi bhoomiputra!!!!! , who the hell said you the letter of shahji which is kept in ghorpade museum in which he wrote to adil shah he clearly wrote that he is "RAJPUT" and not a marathi bhoomiputra. Who is the CM of maharastra Prithviraj Chavan he is a rajput just because chauhan become chavan dont mean he is not a rajput and second thing what you want to say , you are asking me to delete those because those facts and evidences prove the rajput origin of shivaji. The poem on shahji was composed 23 years before shivaji coronation and it mentions maloji as the descendant of rana of mewar. Now what that poet too is a marathi brahmin search the legendary marathi poet of 17th century who also was in shivaji court. Most important thing just as you all know gaga bhatt what was the name of that so called created Marathi brahmin who refused shivaji demand to coronate him, this is nothing but speculation how can anyone know this was their any writing from that time which prove this fact and if gaga bhatt was greedy why not a single marathi brahmin was greedy even though poet of jayaram is a marathi brhamin and he mentions maloji as rajput of mewar . The claims of 20th century needs to be dismissed as a pure fiction.
122.161.14.246 (
talk) 06:15, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
and you plz read the book by much more noted historian,archaelogists and head of british india intelligence Col james tod and sir williamson hunter their books prove it without any doubt the rajput origin of not only shivaji but many more maratha generals and soldiers like "RANE","MORE""JADHAV""DESHMUKH""CHAVAN""PAWAR".
i think most people here refer to only jadunath sarkar because he is opposing rajput origin what about HC ojha he is also one of the most prominent indian historian and what about much more famous and more noted historian Col James tod he was criticized by many but his works are just too solid to be challenged , even einstein was challenged and mocked when he gave theory of relativity and now everyone of us know einstein because of that and not because of photoelectric effect.HC OJHA and Col James tod easily tackle the questions raised by historians who oppose rajput origin. 122.161.14.246 ( talk) 06:24, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
sorry but i fear that editors with knowledge like you handle all these articles, if you want delete that from shivaji page but wil you not violate wiki policy that as many origins should be proposed. Similarly one of you said one historical account. Are you serious khafi khan was a well known historian in mughal era who used to sit in delhi. Similarly at one side the critics are saying marathi brahmin refused to coronate shivaji its false because the writer of poems on shivaji and shahji is a marathi brahmin himself , similarly many poets of that era who were brahmins clearly mention shivaji as rajput. Further now its impossible to find his real caste but those people who have live their whole lives with shahji,maloji and shivaji were fully aware of their rajput origin now whatever you try you cannot have surety. The evidences are from indian writer, from mughal writers and from persian writers and if someone says that this is one historical evidence then its disgusting and shows the bias. Jadunath sircar point is already their so is rajput origin let both remain and let the reader decide some will say shivaji a rajput some will say shivaji a non rajput.But the big fact if shivaji is not rajput then what was his caste did sir jadunath sircar answered this question , has anyone of us seen "Nuclear forces" answer is no but untill any alternate explanation is given till then nuclear forces will remain like that similarly the non-rajput origin is under cloud some claim he is lingayat, some balippa, some hoysale and some claim he was dalit . I guess most of you will try to see the reasoning sir jadunath sircar was great historian but many great historians do not agree with each other. The best example is of marxist historian such as rs sharma, romilla thapar the books by them are banned(yes banned) in india top most univ such as DU(DELHI UNIV), BHU(Benaras hindu univ), even AMU(aligarh muslim univ). The most trusted historian in india was RC MAJUMDAR most university of india recommend one rc majumdar and hc raychoudhari in foreign writers sir alexander cunningham and vincent smith names are eminent but unfortunately not a single of these writers wrote about shivaji origin. But james tod contribution to indian history is equal to that of vincent a smith and cunningham in foreign writers and he proved shivaji rajput origin, therefore sircar views are not undisputable at all. 122.161.14.246 ( talk) 08:31, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
Those who are saying most historians have this view is mainly false because apart from sir jadunath sircar no prominent historian opposes shivaji rajput origin. Historians such as Col James tod and HC ojha consider shivaji and many more maratha as rajputs they further stated that neither the colour nor language of these maratha matched those of dravidians(south india people). The thing can be said if atleast one of the major historians such as rc majumdar, hc raychoudhari or rk mookerji have confirmed it but none of them wrote anything about shivaji origin(though rc majumdar wrote extensively on shivaji but not his origin).
122.161.14.246 (
talk) 09:55, 8 August 2011 (UTC)