I recognize that this user page belongs to the Wikipedia project and not to me personally. As such, I recognize that I am expected to respectfully abide by community standards as to the presentation and content of this page, and that if I do not like these guidelines, I am welcome either to engage in reasonable discussion about it, to publish my material elsewhere, or to leave the project.
This is an archive of User talk:Lar from about 1 May 2008 through about 1 June 2008. Please do not comment here, use my current talk page for that, thanks. It is part of a series of archives, see the box at right for the list and to navigate to others. An index to all my talk page archives, automatically maintained by User:HBC Archive Indexerbot can be found at User:Lar/TalkArchiveIndex. |
|
I am absolutely appalled by the poor judgment and carelessness shown in your actions with regard to this article. Lynch is one of the most prominent, highest-profile attorneys in the United States. He was, undeniably, chief of enforcement for the Securities and Exchange Commission, one of the most important (if least glamorous) regulatory jobs in the US government. The person who currently holds that position, Linda Chatman Thomsen, is the subject of a Wikipedia whose notability is unquestioned. Despite your comment that the news articles cited refer to Lynch only "in passing," he is the central subject of no small number of them, often mentioned in the headline in major publications like the New York Times [1], the Wall Street Journal [2], and the Los Angeles Times [3]. He is also a central figure in the very-well-known book "Den Of Thieves," by Pulitzer Prize winning author James B. Stewart. [4] [5] I think that being well-known for leading the civil prosecution of notorious miscreants like Ivan Boesky and Michael Milken would certainly provide "prospect for future expansion," but you rather summarily dismiss this possibility. It is extraordinarily difficult to believe that anyone could review the articles in the Times listings or the general Google news listings and not recognize these points. (Forgive me if I sound harsh, but Lynch is a figure of exceptional stature in both the American legal and business worlds, quite well-known and almost universally held in high regard.) I also, quite frankly, think the standards you applied -- requiring that an individual be the subject of a book-length biography or "multiple substantial" biographical articles -- do not accord with Wikipedia policy. Most of the more than 270,000 articles in the "living persons" category would fail that test, and I believe that the simple fact that more than 99% of those articles would fail your test demonstrates that Wikipedia policy is not what you believe it is. Finally, I take offense with your use of the word "deceptive" to describe my comment regarding news articles regarding Lynch. I reviewed the search results before making my statement; on my spot check, for the focused search I cited alone, on most of the search pages at least half the references were to the appropriate Gary Lynch, often many more; and the listing of articles on "Gary Lynch" with the SEC acronym excluded, while not so focused, still yields several hundred additional hits. I wish you had had the courtesy to at least ask me to expand on my comments, rather than being so curtly dismissive, making a deprecatory reference, and implying a lack of skill in evaluating web sources. If not strictly uncivil, it was certainly unpleasant. Minos P. Dautrieve ( talk) 01:08, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
Minos, you silly fellow, you are arguing substance with a middle-aged man who plays with Legos and shows no interest in substance. You should realize that shortly he hand his friends will target you, repeat his canards, and do their best to make you an object of ridicule, for your effrontery in insistenting on grounding in the real world. Wikipedia has little to do with the real world, and is not an encyclopedia; all yoiu can hope to do here is to prevent the more venal users from using it to harm their randomly chosen real-world targets. I told you when you started this would come to no good. The Enchantress Of Florence ( talk) 00:27, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
I made this comment in the DRV and then ran into an edit conflict with the closure. I'm placing my comment here where I hope it may be of benefit to Lars, who, in my opinion, did make some mistakes here and who would become a better administrator if he can recognize them and stop defending himself. He's not on trial, and one of the most powerful things one can do to defuse arguments is to admit mistakes. Sure, one should never admit a mistake that one did not make, but, even then, one can stop arguing. If someone believes you made a mistake, it's not the end of the world. But if you keep arguing with the person, things can, in fact, get quite nasty. It's one of the biggest mistakes that spouses make, actually, bigger, by far, than the original small mistakes....
(original comment from DRV:) This is not the place to defend or attack administrative actions, rather, the subject of this process is whether or not to sustain or overturn an XfD. Inherently, then we must allow that an administrator made a mistake as a possibility, and administrators should not face serious criticism for occasional mistakes. Even if there were no mistake, subsequent evidence could arise or become better known that would change the outcome. Nevertheless, the closure of the AfD as Delete was problematic, and I'm concerned that the closer continues to defend the decision. The closer stated specifically that "For a marginally notable BLP, with few or no sources, and no prospect of further expansion, the default outcome failing consensus (we had 3 commenters) should be delete." It is news to me that the default has become delete! The only situation I've seen where that might be the case is when some continuing harm is alleged, as with a BLP that the subject wants deleted, which was not the case here. The closing admin is assuming "marginally notable," "few or no sources," as well as "no prospect of further expansion," all of which were contradicted, at least to some degree, by the only evidence presented by commentors, excepting the closing admin himself. And that the closing admin essentially presented a new, independent argument, contradicting argument presented in the AfD, but closing off the possibility of rebuttal within the AfD by closing it, my conclusion is that the closure was improper for several reasons, but this may well not be the place to discuss it. While it's a good thing that a closing admin presents his reasons, if those reasons were not presented by others, the closer is, in fact, involved, and should instead simply comment based on the evidence -- or lack of evidence -- he found.
The
April 2008 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
This has been an automated delivery by
BrownBot (
talk)
01:24, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
(Refactored to User_talk:Anonymous Dissident per my policy) ++ Lar: t/ c 16:06, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
Oh! Wonderful job! Very good and helpful post. Thx, your blog in my RSS reader now —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.158.221.227 ( talk) 18:50, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
Orphaned non-free media:
Thanks for uploading
Image:LOVE PSYCHEDELICO Greatest Hits album.jpg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a
claim of fair use. However, it is currently
orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed.
You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see
our policy for non-free media).
If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the " my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BJBot ( talk) 12:15, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
(Refactored to User_talk:Staka per my policy) ++ Lar: t/ c 16:38, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
I received the following from an editor who repeatedly places the names of persons who were speculated to be or declined to be candidates for public office and never declared their candidacies on the same footing with actual candidates on candidates' lists. It goes:
![]() | Your [ recent edit] to Louisiana's 6th congressional district special election, 2008 removed cited references to once potential candidates. This is the 3rd page that I have seen where you attempted to do this knowing it goes against wikipedia policy. Considering the volumes of discussion you and I have had with regards to this, please refrain from doing so in the future.-- Dr who1975 ( talk) 15:43, 4 May 2008 (UTC) |
Such speculation only belongs in the body of articles and never on candidates' lists. Can you mediate the dispute? Steelbeard1 ( talk) 16:58, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
Steelbeard has now done it to another page I have summed up the history of this disagreement at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Template:Elections are historical.-- Dr who1975 ( talk) 00:37, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
I'm going to try to stop and let steelbeard respond after this. Steelbeard1 s contention that "Such speculation only belongs in the body of articles" does not match his actions... he didn't put it in the body of the article, he removed it entirely and we've had this discussion numerous times as outlined by my explanations above. So the question is... is he lying... it's certainly deceptive and misleading. Steelbeard... is it your contention that you've forgotten our previous discussions? Lar, who's really the problem editor here? I went directly to his page to address the disagreement directly... he goes to Markles and your pages with headines like "problem editor" in the hopes that you will block me from wikipedia.-- Dr who1975 ( talk) 03:32, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
Lar... what information do you need to mediate this dispute?-- Dr who1975 ( talk) 01:59, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
The point is that non-candidate speculation can be included in the body of articles (with linked citations to back up the speculation), but never in candidates' lists as Dr. Who had been trying to insert, thus causing the edit warring. Steelbeard1 ( talk) 02:28, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
Here is the summary I asked you to read a few days back... as before...the links are clickable to diffs that verify the statements...
Dr. Who is clearly missing the point which I believe you fully understand, Lar. In the recent revisions, I had deleted the speculation in the candidates' lists, but couldn't insert it in the body of the articles because in one article, two thirds of the citations had become dead links and the other one, concerning Ben Nevers, had no citations at all. When Dr. Who inserted the Nevers speculation in the body of the article, the citation he gave was from Nevers' official state senate web site which, by its very nature, could not back up the speculation because it would be unlikely that Nevers would give his congressional ambitions in his own web site. That's why I deleted the Nevers speculation from the body of the article.
Steelbeard1 (
talk)
04:03, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
Also, Dr. Who either forgot about or intentionally overlooked an earlier edit I made to the Mississippi special election article about Jamie Franks when I inserted the Franks speculation in the body of the article at [6] and Dr. Who inserted another passage about Franks elsewhere in the body of the article which he mentioned above. That's when I removed the now redundant passage and said it was a good compromise when I had created it earlier and he missed. Steelbeard1 ( talk) 04:49, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
If you look at the history of this talk page discusssion, Dr. Who had tampered with my rebuttals then changed his mind. Steelbeard1 ( talk) 10:23, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
See Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Elections and Referenda#ongoing elections and prominence given to candidates. As the issue has arisen again, it is time to involve more people and start to write some guidelines. -- John Vandenberg ( chat) 01:14, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
I have lost all respect for Dr. Who. See the latest postings in Talk:United States Senate election in Mississippi, 2008. Steelbeard1 ( talk) 21:49, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
Your input and comments are welcome on the talk page here User:Giano/Terms for VK's return. Giano ( talk) 08:58, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
I was curious, in your comment here, to whom were you referring? seresin ( ¡? ) 01:36, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Requests for rollback#User:Sceptre. Danke. EVula // talk // ☯ // 20:14, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
Lar, a note of clarification. I agreee with you that roll-back should only be used for certain clear cut cases. I disagree that the community feels otherwise. Apologies for troubling you, but otherwise my remark at the dialogue concerning Sceptre is possibly unclear! Very Best. Pedro : Chat 21:19, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
Hello, Lar. A new edition of the USRD newsletter may be read at Wikipedia:WikiProject U.S. Roads/Newsletter/Issues/Volume02/Issue04. Apologies for the late delivery; my internet connection went down halfway through the delivery process. -- Rschen7754bot ( talk) 23:02, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
Hi again. Please refer above; there's a checkuser issue in a closely related area here. It means a lot of work for somebody, but I think it's in a good cause. Feel free to tell me to get lost and file a regular report, but it would be much appreciated it if you could have a hack at it. Thanks, -- John ( talk) 02:48, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
I seem to have given four people, including a current arbitrator, a former arbitrator, and a steward, a public ticking off. <looks worried> So I thought I'd better let each of you know about it. See here. Thread is here. Apologies in advance if this irks you, but I feel strongly about how some of these threads end up poking fun at individuals. Carcharoth ( talk) 16:06, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
Hi, Larry. May I know why, or is it just a gut feeling. You don't have to post there, here my talk page, or e-mail is fine. Thanks. -- Avi ( talk) 11:51, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
Hi, Lar. FYI, I responded to your thoughts under Herby's opposition, regarding the self-nom and also the time differential, which I based on Wikipedia:Requests for bureaucratship/Redux 3, as I referenced in the initial statement way at the top. Thanks! -- Avi ( talk) 23:52, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
Having just commented on a DRV, I'd like to stop by to say that I actually appreciated your not so recent post about the AOR category. I'm just continuing to postpone to do something around it, but still hope to get around before it is 'too late'. Best wishes.-- Tikiwont ( talk) 10:41, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
I think one way to deal with the "searching" concern would be to implement something I've wanted to see for awhile.
An "MoS" namespace. It would include all content/style/naming convention pages. MOS: is already an existing shortcut similar to how WP: is for Wikipedia: So this would include the "big three": NPOV, OR, V; as well as related pages, the MOS pages, etc. It wouldn't include the so-called "behavioral" pages. What do you think? - jc37 01:24, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
(outdent) Dunno. This is the sort of policy that isn't descriptive, so just starting to do it won't work. Maybe...
No, that can't be right. Maybe float the idea past a few more people, then start a page to flesh out which pages go in which, and the float it to the VP to see if it gets buy in, then open a bug once it has wide consensus? ++ Lar: t/ c 04:19, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
I see you're off to bed. I'd best be getting some shuteye too.
It was great fun sparring with you on this issue this evening, and I hope we can sort out a good compromise on this matter. :-)
-- Kim Bruning ( talk) 03:22, 12 May 2008 (UTC) It looks like I lost track of the time too, wow it's early!
Thanks for providing an example, even though we disagree on the interpretation. Do you have more where that came from? :-) -- Kim Bruning ( talk) 21:00, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
I keep seeing this discussion in various places, and it seems to me that Kim (whom I respect greatly), is coming at this one backwards. WP:IAR suggests, somewhat, that strict absolute rules don't exist. However, for simplicity, a "bright red line" was painted for 3RR violations. An admin can block anyone for 3RR. Hold up a hand and blow the whistle, hold on, no more editing until the smoke clears! Otherwise many 3RR violations would be accompanied by arguments that "I was just enforcing WP:NPOV," etc. NPOV is a crucial policy, actually, but it isn't considered an emergency. BLP violations are. So, whether in practice or in theory, an exception was carved out: 3RR does not apply to removing defamatory material. I ran into this myself, though not at the 3RR level. I reverted a few edits of an IP editor clearly a block-evading sock, without regard to content. And I very nearly got blocked for it, based on a prima-facie appearance of restoring defamatory material. (It actually wasn't, but that was an appearance crafted by the sock, and some noticeboards aren't known for subtlety of judgement.) Removal of defamatory material is considered so important that it overrides block policy. And, quite properly, it overrides 3RR policy, which was an unusual thing, a "bright line."
Essentially, the "3RR exemption" is not some new thing, but a return to the older situation where 3RR doesn't exist, the rule is "no edit warring." Except in emergencies. Except to enforce policy. Except, except. The 3RR exemption isn't a carte blance. It is simply *removing* a rigid rule in one narrow area. The underlying rules and guidelines and policies still exist, the bright line just has a bump in it. The 3RR exemption would not apply to someone, on their own, using reversion to protect a BLP article, for days, without at least making a good faith attempt to bring in administrative attention. If many reversions are necessary, the article should be protected, for starters. And broader attention should arise, so that it is not only the judgment of a single editor that another's edits are defamatory. But the editor taking the material out should not be blocked automatically. The one putting it in (or perhaps even the multiple editors putting it in) might be blocked. We should, as a default, feel safe removing defamatory information where there is no community consensus to keep it. That's special to BLP, in other articles the situation isn't automatically biased toward inclusion or exclusion. While documenting actual practice is interesting, actual practice is not the only source for guidelines. Community consensus (a real consensus, not the transient consensus that sometimes passes for it) is another source. Both. They interconnect, and they move each other. -- Abd ( talk) 17:44, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
Abd, thanks for turning up. I think you've got something there with that perspective. It's a different way to think about the matter, and a useful one. I won't comment on the particular matter that you and IP are disputing, I don't have the context, except to say that it clearly illustrates that not all BLP matters are cut and dried, sometimes it's not clear what version is defamatory and what version is not. maybe in some cases both versions are? Or neither? Hence, I think your suggestion that someone bravely using 3RR violating reverts to combat something indeed does need to ask for help as soon as it is practical rather than soldiering on solo... and then needs to explain that they in good faith were reverting beyond 3RR... it doesn't matter if it turns out they were wrong, the admins at the 3RR board should be giving them the benefit of the doubt on that, I would say, unless there's some pattern. Much of what Kim fastened onto, I think, is the fact that this process of asking for help, informing that you had to exceed the norms, and getting evaluated... seems to be coming out with wrong answers a fair bit. That seems a process problem, not an exemption problem. Unless as Kim alleges it's just impossible to do because the concept itself is broken. I just don't think so. Your reasoning above also supports that it's not conceptually broken. Again, thanks for turning up. ++ Lar: t/ c 19:35, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
Hello, Larry.
I wanted to personally thank you for taking part in the project-wide discussions regarding my candidacy for bureaucratship. After bureaucratic discussion, the bureaucrats decided that there was sufficient significant and varied opposition to my candidacy, and thus no consensus to promote. Although personally disappointed, I both understand and respect their decision, especially in light of historical conservatism the project has had when selecting its bureaucrats. As per our discussion above, I am waiting on an e-mail from you, at your earliest convenience. Thank you. -- Avi ( talk) 20:49, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
(<-)Lar, if I didn't respect you that much, I wouldn't care as much, but since I do, I'm still interested in having that conversation; email is fine. -- Avi ( talk) 19:02, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
Hello Lar, I caught your comment at one of the noticeboards where you mentioned a possible change of policy away from anon- and pseudonymous editing. This is a topic I would like to follow and keep on my watchlist. Can you point me to a central place where it is being discussed? --- Sluzzelin talk 18:37, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
... and your virtual cloth in a box with a fan! LessHeard vanU ( talk) 19:36, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
This. It seriously is unacceptable to me, as I'm seeing now on two seperate key policy discussions the equivalent of discarding and maiming consensus to advance one's personal stances. The governence reform, I now believe, he worked to sink because it would have made "senior" people like him irrelevant to the grand scheme of things, and with no more weight or individual authority than any other user, and this attempt to cripple BLP is just baffling. Lawrence Cohen § t/ e 04:00, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
Well, I've backed off on the BLP talk page, at least for the next week or so. What I was trying to do clearly wasn't working. Then some folks tried a similar approach on NTWW chat, and we saw exactly how badly it wasn't working (even though logically it ought to, but there you go.) I can't be hypocritical and not fix my own procedures when there are issues with them.
One thing apparently got you angry where it wasn't intended: A comment I posted about the log being empty? It was true at the time. When you put a data-point in the log 2 hours later, you apparently read the comment as saying I'd rejected your log entry (which is obviously not true, as it hadn't been made yet at the time of the comment). Apologies for that misunderstanding. I appreciate your attempts at gathering data.
I hope you have a nice morning! -- Kim Bruning ( talk) 05:48, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
You can claim to be misunderstood, I suppose, but I don't think so. The major issue I have with this is that during the course of this, you were asked many clarifying questions which you did not answer, and had many of your assumptions challenged, which you did not address. I find myself agreeing extremely strongly with FaithF here. You need to either admit that FaithF's view (and I suspect, the majority of the other participants as well) of what transpired is correct, and understand why it is unacceptable to act that way, or determine why so many people perceived your approach to this matter singularly unhelpful, and why they did not understand what you really were trying to do. I think it is possible that there is some self delusion involved, your perception of what you were doing may not match what you actually were doing. I'm sorry to speak so harshly but I feel a fair bit of time was flat out wasted in this matter.
To be crystal clear, it is my view that:
I'm really sorry to say this Kim, but you did not at all acquit yourself well here, and your attempts to reframe what happened after the fact contribute to that assessment. I'm surprisingly disappointed in you. You need to internalise that what others are saying may actually be an accurate assessment of what transpired.
I suggest that while you are going off and thinking about what happened, that you spend some time doing some actual BLP work. Your article namespace contribs show less than a dozen edits there in the last two months, and I'm not seeing any of them (on spot checking) as BLP related. To have standing in this matter, it may be helpful to spend some time at the coalface, seeing the magnitude of the problem. Go find some BLP problems and try to fix them. They won't be hard to find. It is depressingly easy, actually. Most people find one within the first 20 times they hit "random article". I feel that while I am not the most diligent, I do have some standing, as reviewing my article namespace contribs shows 150 over the last two months, not less than a dozen (still in dilettante mode, to be sure) and with a predomination of BLP related ones recently (all those AfD related removals and the like are BLP AfDs) So while my standing is slight compared to the really hard working folk who deal with this more often, it is non zero. ++ Lar: t/ c 11:07, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
You are a steward are you not? (Well, I opined that you should be :) )
Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#the undertow
-- Avi ( talk) 21:06, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
I was a bit bothered by this the other day, and then I noticed this. Perhaps it would be best to chat about this in email. You know how to contact me, tonysidaway@gmail.com if you don't. -- Anticipation of a New Lover's Arrival, The 00:38, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
Lar, your name came up on my talk page, if you want to take a look. Regards, Tim Smith ( talk) 04:49, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
I am now proud owner of a TUSC account! ++ Lar: t/ c 22:23, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
I would suggest you read User:Filll/Moultonunblock. All of it. Carefully. I added more to it, but there is still lots more.
Such as evidence of past disruption of other online communities. And evidence of trying to cause disruption on purpose so he can write about it as a research study to see how we react. Now, I think it is ok to give people a second chance. However, I think people who do this should go into this with their eyes open. And fully aware of what might await.
If you want to take him under your wing and try to educate him, go ahead as far as I am concerned; just keep him away from me. You can see more details in that link above. If you are successful at reforming him, I will take my hat off to you.
Of course, a lot of the information derives from private emails and other private records. But it exists. Good luck.-- Filll ( talk) 23:50, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
See you weighed in pretty well on previous dicussions on Sunholm socks, would you mind looking at User_talk:Dmcdevit#Sunholm? and Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#1qx_and_DUCK? I believe that he's back. Also, MrBigBux ( talk + · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser( log) · investigate · cuwiki) may be of interest. Thanks, Metros ( talk) 17:42, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
I don't know if you noticed I added some Rush Street information to SS Christopher Columbus. I also put a note on the talk page about finding more images. You may find the current Rush Street FAC interesting. I have just added some new image formatting that I need feedback on.-- TonyTheTiger ( t/ c/ bio/ WP:CHICAGO/ WP:LOTM) 08:12, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
Hi Lar. Sorry to bother you since you probably have more pressing things to do, but, as you are the admin who unblocked me when I was accused of sockpuppetry, I wanted to clear my creation of a second account for use on public computers per WP:SOCK#LEGIT with you. I'll name it something obviously related to me ("Doctorfluffy2" or similar) and will tag it with one of the appropriate alt account templates. Naturally, it's possible that both accounts might edit the same page during the course of a debate, but I would think with the above measures it would be apparent to all that I am not socking in a malicious or collaborative manner. Would you have any problem with this? Doctorfluffy ( robe and wizard hat) 06:06, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the suggestions regarding my accountability page. I've updated it, clarified my terms, and posted the updated page. Since there's two weeks lead time (to be fair), would you mind looking it over and giving it the up or down for me? User:SirFozzie/Accountability. Thanks! SirFozzie ( talk) 22:44, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
Hello sir. As I write this, I grow tired. Just for identification, I am someone who you have fought with in the past. I have been reflective in the last few weeks, since the last church service with the sacrament of Holy Communion (I'm a Congregationalist Christian, United Church of Christ). To keep this short, I am sorry to you, and those administrators I have wronged and other users as yet unnamed here. I have not only wronged you sir, and those named here, but I have also violated the Word of Christ, who I swore on a sacred oath to follow for all my days, how many I have left. I come seeking forgiveness in His spirit, but don't expect it and won't force the issue. I don't seek to be unblocked, and I won't force it. To conclude this, I hereby withdraw my threats of legal action against the project and Mr. Wales and all the administrators. I seek to just be at peace, and with that spirit, I resign from Wikipedia. God Bless you Lar, you and your family. Keep safe will you? ForeverSearching ( talk) 18:42, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
Hi Lar - Have been trying to do the whole SUL thing, and unexpectedly discovered that there is apparently a user named "Risker" on Japanese wikipedia. Well, sort of...their name is obviously in katakana first and then letters, so I am half wondering how it could be considered the same "name", but I guess that is neither here nor there. I'd like to usurp the account, which does not appear (from what I can see) to have had any more than a handful of edits some years ago; however, I have no idea how to communicate with Japanese bureaucrats, or how to read Japanese to find out if they have any special rules. Can you help me out here? It would be greatly appreciated! Thanks. Risker ( talk) 19:07, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
http://ja.wikipedia.org/?title=%E7%89%B9%E5%88%A5%3ALog&type=newusers&user=Lar&page=&year=&month=-1 to this http://ja.wikipedia.org/?title=%E7%89%B9%E5%88%A5%3ALog&type=newusers&user=Risker&page=&year=&month=-1 That says to me the account (which has no contribs) doesn't exist... Try doing the SUL unify from your home wiki again and this time, paste in the exact error you get?... ++ Lar: t/ c 19:56, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for your help. This is what I get when I try to do the unified thing: [11] Earlier today, the en.wp, commons, meta and en.wikt accounts were up at the top and all in fact have the same username and password; only the jp.wp was at the bottom and needed a password match. Now, all but the en.wp are at the bottom, despite the fact that all but the jp.wp have the same username and password. (after putting in the password, it looks like this [12]) Never a dull moment around here. Please feel free to muck about; I'll trust you on this, and should be home at about 5:30 EDT on gmail or on-wiki. Haven't quite worked up the energy to do the IRC/cloaking thing yet! Risker ( talk) 20:05, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
Lar, seeing as your the "grandfather" of the recall idea, I wanted to run my newest expansion of my recall criteria (to include my BAG membership) by you at User:MBisanz/Recall. MBisanz talk 19:50, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
(hope you don't mind my small tease per the above thread!) - thought I'd drop a note in here rather than reply to your message in the An/I thread...
I was supporting the 2 week ban only on MM, and not the straight to indef. in my comments - though I did think about re-wording to "I'm happy to agree with Lar" which perhaps better reflects the bit of ambivalence / doubt which remains. Actually - and I've considered the possible harm in saying this openly - and discounted it - I think there's also a 'better the devil we know' argument in there too. It's worth remembering that it is nigh on impossible to prevent someone from editing wikipedia if they want to (and I was a bit surprised in my case at the advice I got from some quarters to do just that - both the advice, and where it came from raised my eyebrow a bit).
Further to my comments at AN/I about the arbcom being not fit for purpose - I've been having some interesting conversations, and trying to think through a few ideas, and wondered if you might have any advice as to the best 'on-wiki' next steps? - are you interested in this aspect at all? hope you're good Lar - and here's a completely random comment for you - I was tempted to illustrate a post at 'that' current arb case talk page with this pic... fortunately I didn't find it sooner, and the post is probably better unsaid anywhoo....!
cheers, Privatemusings ( talk) 02:52, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
Why, thank you. :) I was searching for the pithiest crystallization of the frustration that Moulton's style seems to inspire on occasion, and that's what I came up with. I seem to recall seeing it described as "condescending, self-indulgent bullshit" on the Site-Which-Must-Not-Be-Named, which is caustic but also perhaps more accurate. Anyhoo... keep up the good work. MastCell Talk 18:54, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
Hi Lar. I just replied to you here -- just a heads up so you don't miss it! Sam Korn (smoddy) 19:09, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
Consider yourself to retroactively canvassed. Balloonman ( talk) 02:23, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
"I suggest that you are not the person here with the most moral standing to speak about corruption or fraud or favoritism. Put your own house in order first."
What does this comment mean, Lar? SlimVirgin talk| edits 20:50, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
I recognize that this user page belongs to the Wikipedia project and not to me personally. As such, I recognize that I am expected to respectfully abide by community standards as to the presentation and content of this page, and that if I do not like these guidelines, I am welcome either to engage in reasonable discussion about it, to publish my material elsewhere, or to leave the project.
This is an archive of User talk:Lar from about 1 May 2008 through about 1 June 2008. Please do not comment here, use my current talk page for that, thanks. It is part of a series of archives, see the box at right for the list and to navigate to others. An index to all my talk page archives, automatically maintained by User:HBC Archive Indexerbot can be found at User:Lar/TalkArchiveIndex. |
|
I am absolutely appalled by the poor judgment and carelessness shown in your actions with regard to this article. Lynch is one of the most prominent, highest-profile attorneys in the United States. He was, undeniably, chief of enforcement for the Securities and Exchange Commission, one of the most important (if least glamorous) regulatory jobs in the US government. The person who currently holds that position, Linda Chatman Thomsen, is the subject of a Wikipedia whose notability is unquestioned. Despite your comment that the news articles cited refer to Lynch only "in passing," he is the central subject of no small number of them, often mentioned in the headline in major publications like the New York Times [1], the Wall Street Journal [2], and the Los Angeles Times [3]. He is also a central figure in the very-well-known book "Den Of Thieves," by Pulitzer Prize winning author James B. Stewart. [4] [5] I think that being well-known for leading the civil prosecution of notorious miscreants like Ivan Boesky and Michael Milken would certainly provide "prospect for future expansion," but you rather summarily dismiss this possibility. It is extraordinarily difficult to believe that anyone could review the articles in the Times listings or the general Google news listings and not recognize these points. (Forgive me if I sound harsh, but Lynch is a figure of exceptional stature in both the American legal and business worlds, quite well-known and almost universally held in high regard.) I also, quite frankly, think the standards you applied -- requiring that an individual be the subject of a book-length biography or "multiple substantial" biographical articles -- do not accord with Wikipedia policy. Most of the more than 270,000 articles in the "living persons" category would fail that test, and I believe that the simple fact that more than 99% of those articles would fail your test demonstrates that Wikipedia policy is not what you believe it is. Finally, I take offense with your use of the word "deceptive" to describe my comment regarding news articles regarding Lynch. I reviewed the search results before making my statement; on my spot check, for the focused search I cited alone, on most of the search pages at least half the references were to the appropriate Gary Lynch, often many more; and the listing of articles on "Gary Lynch" with the SEC acronym excluded, while not so focused, still yields several hundred additional hits. I wish you had had the courtesy to at least ask me to expand on my comments, rather than being so curtly dismissive, making a deprecatory reference, and implying a lack of skill in evaluating web sources. If not strictly uncivil, it was certainly unpleasant. Minos P. Dautrieve ( talk) 01:08, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
Minos, you silly fellow, you are arguing substance with a middle-aged man who plays with Legos and shows no interest in substance. You should realize that shortly he hand his friends will target you, repeat his canards, and do their best to make you an object of ridicule, for your effrontery in insistenting on grounding in the real world. Wikipedia has little to do with the real world, and is not an encyclopedia; all yoiu can hope to do here is to prevent the more venal users from using it to harm their randomly chosen real-world targets. I told you when you started this would come to no good. The Enchantress Of Florence ( talk) 00:27, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
I made this comment in the DRV and then ran into an edit conflict with the closure. I'm placing my comment here where I hope it may be of benefit to Lars, who, in my opinion, did make some mistakes here and who would become a better administrator if he can recognize them and stop defending himself. He's not on trial, and one of the most powerful things one can do to defuse arguments is to admit mistakes. Sure, one should never admit a mistake that one did not make, but, even then, one can stop arguing. If someone believes you made a mistake, it's not the end of the world. But if you keep arguing with the person, things can, in fact, get quite nasty. It's one of the biggest mistakes that spouses make, actually, bigger, by far, than the original small mistakes....
(original comment from DRV:) This is not the place to defend or attack administrative actions, rather, the subject of this process is whether or not to sustain or overturn an XfD. Inherently, then we must allow that an administrator made a mistake as a possibility, and administrators should not face serious criticism for occasional mistakes. Even if there were no mistake, subsequent evidence could arise or become better known that would change the outcome. Nevertheless, the closure of the AfD as Delete was problematic, and I'm concerned that the closer continues to defend the decision. The closer stated specifically that "For a marginally notable BLP, with few or no sources, and no prospect of further expansion, the default outcome failing consensus (we had 3 commenters) should be delete." It is news to me that the default has become delete! The only situation I've seen where that might be the case is when some continuing harm is alleged, as with a BLP that the subject wants deleted, which was not the case here. The closing admin is assuming "marginally notable," "few or no sources," as well as "no prospect of further expansion," all of which were contradicted, at least to some degree, by the only evidence presented by commentors, excepting the closing admin himself. And that the closing admin essentially presented a new, independent argument, contradicting argument presented in the AfD, but closing off the possibility of rebuttal within the AfD by closing it, my conclusion is that the closure was improper for several reasons, but this may well not be the place to discuss it. While it's a good thing that a closing admin presents his reasons, if those reasons were not presented by others, the closer is, in fact, involved, and should instead simply comment based on the evidence -- or lack of evidence -- he found.
The
April 2008 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
This has been an automated delivery by
BrownBot (
talk)
01:24, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
(Refactored to User_talk:Anonymous Dissident per my policy) ++ Lar: t/ c 16:06, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
Oh! Wonderful job! Very good and helpful post. Thx, your blog in my RSS reader now —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.158.221.227 ( talk) 18:50, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
Orphaned non-free media:
Thanks for uploading
Image:LOVE PSYCHEDELICO Greatest Hits album.jpg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a
claim of fair use. However, it is currently
orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed.
You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see
our policy for non-free media).
If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the " my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BJBot ( talk) 12:15, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
(Refactored to User_talk:Staka per my policy) ++ Lar: t/ c 16:38, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
I received the following from an editor who repeatedly places the names of persons who were speculated to be or declined to be candidates for public office and never declared their candidacies on the same footing with actual candidates on candidates' lists. It goes:
![]() | Your [ recent edit] to Louisiana's 6th congressional district special election, 2008 removed cited references to once potential candidates. This is the 3rd page that I have seen where you attempted to do this knowing it goes against wikipedia policy. Considering the volumes of discussion you and I have had with regards to this, please refrain from doing so in the future.-- Dr who1975 ( talk) 15:43, 4 May 2008 (UTC) |
Such speculation only belongs in the body of articles and never on candidates' lists. Can you mediate the dispute? Steelbeard1 ( talk) 16:58, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
Steelbeard has now done it to another page I have summed up the history of this disagreement at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Template:Elections are historical.-- Dr who1975 ( talk) 00:37, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
I'm going to try to stop and let steelbeard respond after this. Steelbeard1 s contention that "Such speculation only belongs in the body of articles" does not match his actions... he didn't put it in the body of the article, he removed it entirely and we've had this discussion numerous times as outlined by my explanations above. So the question is... is he lying... it's certainly deceptive and misleading. Steelbeard... is it your contention that you've forgotten our previous discussions? Lar, who's really the problem editor here? I went directly to his page to address the disagreement directly... he goes to Markles and your pages with headines like "problem editor" in the hopes that you will block me from wikipedia.-- Dr who1975 ( talk) 03:32, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
Lar... what information do you need to mediate this dispute?-- Dr who1975 ( talk) 01:59, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
The point is that non-candidate speculation can be included in the body of articles (with linked citations to back up the speculation), but never in candidates' lists as Dr. Who had been trying to insert, thus causing the edit warring. Steelbeard1 ( talk) 02:28, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
Here is the summary I asked you to read a few days back... as before...the links are clickable to diffs that verify the statements...
Dr. Who is clearly missing the point which I believe you fully understand, Lar. In the recent revisions, I had deleted the speculation in the candidates' lists, but couldn't insert it in the body of the articles because in one article, two thirds of the citations had become dead links and the other one, concerning Ben Nevers, had no citations at all. When Dr. Who inserted the Nevers speculation in the body of the article, the citation he gave was from Nevers' official state senate web site which, by its very nature, could not back up the speculation because it would be unlikely that Nevers would give his congressional ambitions in his own web site. That's why I deleted the Nevers speculation from the body of the article.
Steelbeard1 (
talk)
04:03, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
Also, Dr. Who either forgot about or intentionally overlooked an earlier edit I made to the Mississippi special election article about Jamie Franks when I inserted the Franks speculation in the body of the article at [6] and Dr. Who inserted another passage about Franks elsewhere in the body of the article which he mentioned above. That's when I removed the now redundant passage and said it was a good compromise when I had created it earlier and he missed. Steelbeard1 ( talk) 04:49, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
If you look at the history of this talk page discusssion, Dr. Who had tampered with my rebuttals then changed his mind. Steelbeard1 ( talk) 10:23, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
See Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Elections and Referenda#ongoing elections and prominence given to candidates. As the issue has arisen again, it is time to involve more people and start to write some guidelines. -- John Vandenberg ( chat) 01:14, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
I have lost all respect for Dr. Who. See the latest postings in Talk:United States Senate election in Mississippi, 2008. Steelbeard1 ( talk) 21:49, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
Your input and comments are welcome on the talk page here User:Giano/Terms for VK's return. Giano ( talk) 08:58, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
I was curious, in your comment here, to whom were you referring? seresin ( ¡? ) 01:36, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Requests for rollback#User:Sceptre. Danke. EVula // talk // ☯ // 20:14, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
Lar, a note of clarification. I agreee with you that roll-back should only be used for certain clear cut cases. I disagree that the community feels otherwise. Apologies for troubling you, but otherwise my remark at the dialogue concerning Sceptre is possibly unclear! Very Best. Pedro : Chat 21:19, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
Hello, Lar. A new edition of the USRD newsletter may be read at Wikipedia:WikiProject U.S. Roads/Newsletter/Issues/Volume02/Issue04. Apologies for the late delivery; my internet connection went down halfway through the delivery process. -- Rschen7754bot ( talk) 23:02, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
Hi again. Please refer above; there's a checkuser issue in a closely related area here. It means a lot of work for somebody, but I think it's in a good cause. Feel free to tell me to get lost and file a regular report, but it would be much appreciated it if you could have a hack at it. Thanks, -- John ( talk) 02:48, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
I seem to have given four people, including a current arbitrator, a former arbitrator, and a steward, a public ticking off. <looks worried> So I thought I'd better let each of you know about it. See here. Thread is here. Apologies in advance if this irks you, but I feel strongly about how some of these threads end up poking fun at individuals. Carcharoth ( talk) 16:06, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
Hi, Larry. May I know why, or is it just a gut feeling. You don't have to post there, here my talk page, or e-mail is fine. Thanks. -- Avi ( talk) 11:51, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
Hi, Lar. FYI, I responded to your thoughts under Herby's opposition, regarding the self-nom and also the time differential, which I based on Wikipedia:Requests for bureaucratship/Redux 3, as I referenced in the initial statement way at the top. Thanks! -- Avi ( talk) 23:52, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
Having just commented on a DRV, I'd like to stop by to say that I actually appreciated your not so recent post about the AOR category. I'm just continuing to postpone to do something around it, but still hope to get around before it is 'too late'. Best wishes.-- Tikiwont ( talk) 10:41, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
I think one way to deal with the "searching" concern would be to implement something I've wanted to see for awhile.
An "MoS" namespace. It would include all content/style/naming convention pages. MOS: is already an existing shortcut similar to how WP: is for Wikipedia: So this would include the "big three": NPOV, OR, V; as well as related pages, the MOS pages, etc. It wouldn't include the so-called "behavioral" pages. What do you think? - jc37 01:24, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
(outdent) Dunno. This is the sort of policy that isn't descriptive, so just starting to do it won't work. Maybe...
No, that can't be right. Maybe float the idea past a few more people, then start a page to flesh out which pages go in which, and the float it to the VP to see if it gets buy in, then open a bug once it has wide consensus? ++ Lar: t/ c 04:19, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
I see you're off to bed. I'd best be getting some shuteye too.
It was great fun sparring with you on this issue this evening, and I hope we can sort out a good compromise on this matter. :-)
-- Kim Bruning ( talk) 03:22, 12 May 2008 (UTC) It looks like I lost track of the time too, wow it's early!
Thanks for providing an example, even though we disagree on the interpretation. Do you have more where that came from? :-) -- Kim Bruning ( talk) 21:00, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
I keep seeing this discussion in various places, and it seems to me that Kim (whom I respect greatly), is coming at this one backwards. WP:IAR suggests, somewhat, that strict absolute rules don't exist. However, for simplicity, a "bright red line" was painted for 3RR violations. An admin can block anyone for 3RR. Hold up a hand and blow the whistle, hold on, no more editing until the smoke clears! Otherwise many 3RR violations would be accompanied by arguments that "I was just enforcing WP:NPOV," etc. NPOV is a crucial policy, actually, but it isn't considered an emergency. BLP violations are. So, whether in practice or in theory, an exception was carved out: 3RR does not apply to removing defamatory material. I ran into this myself, though not at the 3RR level. I reverted a few edits of an IP editor clearly a block-evading sock, without regard to content. And I very nearly got blocked for it, based on a prima-facie appearance of restoring defamatory material. (It actually wasn't, but that was an appearance crafted by the sock, and some noticeboards aren't known for subtlety of judgement.) Removal of defamatory material is considered so important that it overrides block policy. And, quite properly, it overrides 3RR policy, which was an unusual thing, a "bright line."
Essentially, the "3RR exemption" is not some new thing, but a return to the older situation where 3RR doesn't exist, the rule is "no edit warring." Except in emergencies. Except to enforce policy. Except, except. The 3RR exemption isn't a carte blance. It is simply *removing* a rigid rule in one narrow area. The underlying rules and guidelines and policies still exist, the bright line just has a bump in it. The 3RR exemption would not apply to someone, on their own, using reversion to protect a BLP article, for days, without at least making a good faith attempt to bring in administrative attention. If many reversions are necessary, the article should be protected, for starters. And broader attention should arise, so that it is not only the judgment of a single editor that another's edits are defamatory. But the editor taking the material out should not be blocked automatically. The one putting it in (or perhaps even the multiple editors putting it in) might be blocked. We should, as a default, feel safe removing defamatory information where there is no community consensus to keep it. That's special to BLP, in other articles the situation isn't automatically biased toward inclusion or exclusion. While documenting actual practice is interesting, actual practice is not the only source for guidelines. Community consensus (a real consensus, not the transient consensus that sometimes passes for it) is another source. Both. They interconnect, and they move each other. -- Abd ( talk) 17:44, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
Abd, thanks for turning up. I think you've got something there with that perspective. It's a different way to think about the matter, and a useful one. I won't comment on the particular matter that you and IP are disputing, I don't have the context, except to say that it clearly illustrates that not all BLP matters are cut and dried, sometimes it's not clear what version is defamatory and what version is not. maybe in some cases both versions are? Or neither? Hence, I think your suggestion that someone bravely using 3RR violating reverts to combat something indeed does need to ask for help as soon as it is practical rather than soldiering on solo... and then needs to explain that they in good faith were reverting beyond 3RR... it doesn't matter if it turns out they were wrong, the admins at the 3RR board should be giving them the benefit of the doubt on that, I would say, unless there's some pattern. Much of what Kim fastened onto, I think, is the fact that this process of asking for help, informing that you had to exceed the norms, and getting evaluated... seems to be coming out with wrong answers a fair bit. That seems a process problem, not an exemption problem. Unless as Kim alleges it's just impossible to do because the concept itself is broken. I just don't think so. Your reasoning above also supports that it's not conceptually broken. Again, thanks for turning up. ++ Lar: t/ c 19:35, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
Hello, Larry.
I wanted to personally thank you for taking part in the project-wide discussions regarding my candidacy for bureaucratship. After bureaucratic discussion, the bureaucrats decided that there was sufficient significant and varied opposition to my candidacy, and thus no consensus to promote. Although personally disappointed, I both understand and respect their decision, especially in light of historical conservatism the project has had when selecting its bureaucrats. As per our discussion above, I am waiting on an e-mail from you, at your earliest convenience. Thank you. -- Avi ( talk) 20:49, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
(<-)Lar, if I didn't respect you that much, I wouldn't care as much, but since I do, I'm still interested in having that conversation; email is fine. -- Avi ( talk) 19:02, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
Hello Lar, I caught your comment at one of the noticeboards where you mentioned a possible change of policy away from anon- and pseudonymous editing. This is a topic I would like to follow and keep on my watchlist. Can you point me to a central place where it is being discussed? --- Sluzzelin talk 18:37, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
... and your virtual cloth in a box with a fan! LessHeard vanU ( talk) 19:36, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
This. It seriously is unacceptable to me, as I'm seeing now on two seperate key policy discussions the equivalent of discarding and maiming consensus to advance one's personal stances. The governence reform, I now believe, he worked to sink because it would have made "senior" people like him irrelevant to the grand scheme of things, and with no more weight or individual authority than any other user, and this attempt to cripple BLP is just baffling. Lawrence Cohen § t/ e 04:00, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
Well, I've backed off on the BLP talk page, at least for the next week or so. What I was trying to do clearly wasn't working. Then some folks tried a similar approach on NTWW chat, and we saw exactly how badly it wasn't working (even though logically it ought to, but there you go.) I can't be hypocritical and not fix my own procedures when there are issues with them.
One thing apparently got you angry where it wasn't intended: A comment I posted about the log being empty? It was true at the time. When you put a data-point in the log 2 hours later, you apparently read the comment as saying I'd rejected your log entry (which is obviously not true, as it hadn't been made yet at the time of the comment). Apologies for that misunderstanding. I appreciate your attempts at gathering data.
I hope you have a nice morning! -- Kim Bruning ( talk) 05:48, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
You can claim to be misunderstood, I suppose, but I don't think so. The major issue I have with this is that during the course of this, you were asked many clarifying questions which you did not answer, and had many of your assumptions challenged, which you did not address. I find myself agreeing extremely strongly with FaithF here. You need to either admit that FaithF's view (and I suspect, the majority of the other participants as well) of what transpired is correct, and understand why it is unacceptable to act that way, or determine why so many people perceived your approach to this matter singularly unhelpful, and why they did not understand what you really were trying to do. I think it is possible that there is some self delusion involved, your perception of what you were doing may not match what you actually were doing. I'm sorry to speak so harshly but I feel a fair bit of time was flat out wasted in this matter.
To be crystal clear, it is my view that:
I'm really sorry to say this Kim, but you did not at all acquit yourself well here, and your attempts to reframe what happened after the fact contribute to that assessment. I'm surprisingly disappointed in you. You need to internalise that what others are saying may actually be an accurate assessment of what transpired.
I suggest that while you are going off and thinking about what happened, that you spend some time doing some actual BLP work. Your article namespace contribs show less than a dozen edits there in the last two months, and I'm not seeing any of them (on spot checking) as BLP related. To have standing in this matter, it may be helpful to spend some time at the coalface, seeing the magnitude of the problem. Go find some BLP problems and try to fix them. They won't be hard to find. It is depressingly easy, actually. Most people find one within the first 20 times they hit "random article". I feel that while I am not the most diligent, I do have some standing, as reviewing my article namespace contribs shows 150 over the last two months, not less than a dozen (still in dilettante mode, to be sure) and with a predomination of BLP related ones recently (all those AfD related removals and the like are BLP AfDs) So while my standing is slight compared to the really hard working folk who deal with this more often, it is non zero. ++ Lar: t/ c 11:07, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
You are a steward are you not? (Well, I opined that you should be :) )
Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#the undertow
-- Avi ( talk) 21:06, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
I was a bit bothered by this the other day, and then I noticed this. Perhaps it would be best to chat about this in email. You know how to contact me, tonysidaway@gmail.com if you don't. -- Anticipation of a New Lover's Arrival, The 00:38, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
Lar, your name came up on my talk page, if you want to take a look. Regards, Tim Smith ( talk) 04:49, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
I am now proud owner of a TUSC account! ++ Lar: t/ c 22:23, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
I would suggest you read User:Filll/Moultonunblock. All of it. Carefully. I added more to it, but there is still lots more.
Such as evidence of past disruption of other online communities. And evidence of trying to cause disruption on purpose so he can write about it as a research study to see how we react. Now, I think it is ok to give people a second chance. However, I think people who do this should go into this with their eyes open. And fully aware of what might await.
If you want to take him under your wing and try to educate him, go ahead as far as I am concerned; just keep him away from me. You can see more details in that link above. If you are successful at reforming him, I will take my hat off to you.
Of course, a lot of the information derives from private emails and other private records. But it exists. Good luck.-- Filll ( talk) 23:50, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
See you weighed in pretty well on previous dicussions on Sunholm socks, would you mind looking at User_talk:Dmcdevit#Sunholm? and Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#1qx_and_DUCK? I believe that he's back. Also, MrBigBux ( talk + · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser( log) · investigate · cuwiki) may be of interest. Thanks, Metros ( talk) 17:42, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
I don't know if you noticed I added some Rush Street information to SS Christopher Columbus. I also put a note on the talk page about finding more images. You may find the current Rush Street FAC interesting. I have just added some new image formatting that I need feedback on.-- TonyTheTiger ( t/ c/ bio/ WP:CHICAGO/ WP:LOTM) 08:12, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
Hi Lar. Sorry to bother you since you probably have more pressing things to do, but, as you are the admin who unblocked me when I was accused of sockpuppetry, I wanted to clear my creation of a second account for use on public computers per WP:SOCK#LEGIT with you. I'll name it something obviously related to me ("Doctorfluffy2" or similar) and will tag it with one of the appropriate alt account templates. Naturally, it's possible that both accounts might edit the same page during the course of a debate, but I would think with the above measures it would be apparent to all that I am not socking in a malicious or collaborative manner. Would you have any problem with this? Doctorfluffy ( robe and wizard hat) 06:06, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the suggestions regarding my accountability page. I've updated it, clarified my terms, and posted the updated page. Since there's two weeks lead time (to be fair), would you mind looking it over and giving it the up or down for me? User:SirFozzie/Accountability. Thanks! SirFozzie ( talk) 22:44, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
Hello sir. As I write this, I grow tired. Just for identification, I am someone who you have fought with in the past. I have been reflective in the last few weeks, since the last church service with the sacrament of Holy Communion (I'm a Congregationalist Christian, United Church of Christ). To keep this short, I am sorry to you, and those administrators I have wronged and other users as yet unnamed here. I have not only wronged you sir, and those named here, but I have also violated the Word of Christ, who I swore on a sacred oath to follow for all my days, how many I have left. I come seeking forgiveness in His spirit, but don't expect it and won't force the issue. I don't seek to be unblocked, and I won't force it. To conclude this, I hereby withdraw my threats of legal action against the project and Mr. Wales and all the administrators. I seek to just be at peace, and with that spirit, I resign from Wikipedia. God Bless you Lar, you and your family. Keep safe will you? ForeverSearching ( talk) 18:42, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
Hi Lar - Have been trying to do the whole SUL thing, and unexpectedly discovered that there is apparently a user named "Risker" on Japanese wikipedia. Well, sort of...their name is obviously in katakana first and then letters, so I am half wondering how it could be considered the same "name", but I guess that is neither here nor there. I'd like to usurp the account, which does not appear (from what I can see) to have had any more than a handful of edits some years ago; however, I have no idea how to communicate with Japanese bureaucrats, or how to read Japanese to find out if they have any special rules. Can you help me out here? It would be greatly appreciated! Thanks. Risker ( talk) 19:07, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
http://ja.wikipedia.org/?title=%E7%89%B9%E5%88%A5%3ALog&type=newusers&user=Lar&page=&year=&month=-1 to this http://ja.wikipedia.org/?title=%E7%89%B9%E5%88%A5%3ALog&type=newusers&user=Risker&page=&year=&month=-1 That says to me the account (which has no contribs) doesn't exist... Try doing the SUL unify from your home wiki again and this time, paste in the exact error you get?... ++ Lar: t/ c 19:56, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for your help. This is what I get when I try to do the unified thing: [11] Earlier today, the en.wp, commons, meta and en.wikt accounts were up at the top and all in fact have the same username and password; only the jp.wp was at the bottom and needed a password match. Now, all but the en.wp are at the bottom, despite the fact that all but the jp.wp have the same username and password. (after putting in the password, it looks like this [12]) Never a dull moment around here. Please feel free to muck about; I'll trust you on this, and should be home at about 5:30 EDT on gmail or on-wiki. Haven't quite worked up the energy to do the IRC/cloaking thing yet! Risker ( talk) 20:05, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
Lar, seeing as your the "grandfather" of the recall idea, I wanted to run my newest expansion of my recall criteria (to include my BAG membership) by you at User:MBisanz/Recall. MBisanz talk 19:50, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
(hope you don't mind my small tease per the above thread!) - thought I'd drop a note in here rather than reply to your message in the An/I thread...
I was supporting the 2 week ban only on MM, and not the straight to indef. in my comments - though I did think about re-wording to "I'm happy to agree with Lar" which perhaps better reflects the bit of ambivalence / doubt which remains. Actually - and I've considered the possible harm in saying this openly - and discounted it - I think there's also a 'better the devil we know' argument in there too. It's worth remembering that it is nigh on impossible to prevent someone from editing wikipedia if they want to (and I was a bit surprised in my case at the advice I got from some quarters to do just that - both the advice, and where it came from raised my eyebrow a bit).
Further to my comments at AN/I about the arbcom being not fit for purpose - I've been having some interesting conversations, and trying to think through a few ideas, and wondered if you might have any advice as to the best 'on-wiki' next steps? - are you interested in this aspect at all? hope you're good Lar - and here's a completely random comment for you - I was tempted to illustrate a post at 'that' current arb case talk page with this pic... fortunately I didn't find it sooner, and the post is probably better unsaid anywhoo....!
cheers, Privatemusings ( talk) 02:52, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
Why, thank you. :) I was searching for the pithiest crystallization of the frustration that Moulton's style seems to inspire on occasion, and that's what I came up with. I seem to recall seeing it described as "condescending, self-indulgent bullshit" on the Site-Which-Must-Not-Be-Named, which is caustic but also perhaps more accurate. Anyhoo... keep up the good work. MastCell Talk 18:54, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
Hi Lar. I just replied to you here -- just a heads up so you don't miss it! Sam Korn (smoddy) 19:09, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
Consider yourself to retroactively canvassed. Balloonman ( talk) 02:23, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
"I suggest that you are not the person here with the most moral standing to speak about corruption or fraud or favoritism. Put your own house in order first."
What does this comment mean, Lar? SlimVirgin talk| edits 20:50, 30 May 2008 (UTC)