I recognize that this user page belongs to the Wikipedia project and not to me personally. As such, I recognize that I am expected to respectfully abide by community standards as to the presentation and content of this page, and that if I do not like these guidelines, I am welcome either to engage in reasonable discussion about it, to publish my material elsewhere, or to leave the project.
This is an archive of User talk:Lar from about 1 January 2008 through about 1 February 2008. Please do not comment here, use my current talk page for that, thanks. It is part of a series of archives, see the box at right for the list and to navigate to others. An index to all my talk page archives, automatically maintained by User:HBC Archive Indexerbot can be found at User:Lar/TalkArchiveIndex. |
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Hoi Lar, could you have a look at your de. talk page please? -- :Bdk: 03:30, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
Hello, I was asked to notify you and other people that tag images, or run image tagging scripts, of this. Please check out WP:TODAY, which grew off of the recent AN conversation. You will be particularly interested in this section: Wikipedia:TODAY#Early 2008 trial run. Please weigh in on the talk page there? And if possible, let me know who else should know about this? Lawrence Cohen 18:31, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
I'm not quite sure what happened there. Should I change the AfD outcome? Keilana talk (recall) 19:13, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
I thought you were just making things unnecessarily complicated Lar ;) However, it turns out that True Blue (the dab page) has no real edit history. That's at True Blue (producer), deleted. The easiest way to solve this (without going through all the edits one by one, yuck) would be restore the producer page, move it to True Blue (delete to make way for move), delete the redirect left behind at the producer page, and restore any post 27 Dec edits at True Blue. User:Hiphophead88's edits at True Blue are a cut and paste job, probably the cause of all this, and can stay deleted; indeed his edits at the producer article could probably stay deleted too.
Now, you up for all that or do you want me to do it? Doesn't seem worth discussing as a deletion review, there was nothing wrong with the closure just a bit of a mess to be fixed in the edit histories... -- kingboyk ( talk) 00:36, 5 January 2008 (UTC) the edit where he originally replaced the dab page. I've looked in more detail and it seems to me all his edits can stay deleted as they're covered by the AfD or they're copyvio. -- kingboyk ( talk) 00:38, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
Which featured articles/candidates are you referring to? To my knowledge I haven't edited any in the past month aside from the Lawson one - though I may have done so in passing, and I'm now curious to see what I did to them that has caused you such concern. I appreciate that not all my edits are done with sparkling readability in mind - but I aint a complete dunce when it comes to writing. I am a published writer. I have earned a living from writing and editing at various points in my life, as well as some modest acclaim and a couple of modest awards! In my day I even had my ten minutes of fame on BBC2! ;-) SilkTork * SilkyTalk 01:41, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
There are multiple themes in your response and I have been thinking a bit how to respond. I'll try to address the points separately
1) On friends and enemies... I'm here to help build an encyclopedia. While it is true I've made some friends in my time here, and perhaps some enemies, that's not my goal, that's not why I am here. I want to treat everyone fairly and impartially, and evaluate them based on what they contribute here. I try very hard to do that. Moreover, I try very hard not to hold grudges, not to view those I disagree with as adversaries, not to pursue vendettas, not to bear anyone ill will, and above all, not to let myself get worked up about how others perceive me. That should not be my focus, work that forwards the project ought to be. We are all of us human here, and one can not always achieve that but I think it's the goal that all of us here to forward the work ought to have. (see also meatball:ForgiveAndForget)
With that as context, I don't think I bear you any particular ill will, or see you as a bad guy, or that our first meeting has to colour how we perceive each other forever more (an aside, one of the admins I admire the very most here, had a quite unproductive initial relationship with me, and I spoke out strongly against his adminship at the time of his RfA... we both changed and learned and I think he now thinks of me pretty highly too... it was because of what he and I did, what he and I said, what actions he and I took as we moved forward, not what had happened in the past, that changed our views.) I do think that you and I can and will work together productively and harmoniously in future if you wish it. I never want anything other than that in my relationships with other editors.
2) On Original Research versus "synthesis"... You are absolutely right when you say that this project is no place for Original Research. But I want to talk to you about something I call "synthesis" (and others call "engaging the reader"). I am not a very good writer, so this example will suffer for that, but I know my own work best so it's where I draw from. I think every good article should do more than recite facts, it should tell a story that makes the reader want to read to the very end. Things often are more than just the sum of the facts about them, after all. Consider an article I myself hope will be an FA someday, SS Christopher Columbus. I could have just recited all the facts about her, given a few pictures, and been done. But there's a story behind that article, the story of a man, a prolific inventor, an immigrant to our country, who invented something quite odd, and in the teeth of derision and ridicule, made a minor success of it, changing nautical engineering for the better. The 'Chris' was part of that. Over her lifetime she carried 2 million people. I'm not sure I told the whole story successfully yet, the article peters out at the end, but consider this bit from the middle:
I didn't have to use that quote. In fact some might argue that it's unencyclopedic, and that I shouldn't have said that the captain "did just that", as I don't really know for sure. But it's an example of synthesis. I drew the conclusion, from the statistics and contemporary accounts that McArthur presided over a smashing success, and it's an obvious conclusion. And further, it's short, powerful phrasing, designed to engage the reader and make him or her want to find out how the story comes out (it actually has a tragic ending, the whalebacks were ultimately a failure, and 'chris' died under the scrappers torch in 1936 but that wasn't how it looked in 1893).
Consider another article which I also hope, maybe someday, could be an FA: Croton Dam (Michigan). It's a dam built in 1907 across a river most would view as fairly minor, generating not a lot of electricity. Pretty ho hum stuff. Except in fact there's a story behind it... When it was built, the power was transmitted over 50 miles away, at over 100,000 volts. Those were both huge technical breakthroughs at the time. Further it was a key milestone in the industrial development of a region, and part of a series of ever larger and more ambitious projects carried out by the Foote brothers in their building of Consumers Power, now part of a very large electric power company. And it turned 100 this year and is still in use, generating electricity. All that won't come out from a dry recitation of facts. It needs synthesis. Again, maybe I'm not all the way there, but that's what I want the reader to come away with. More than just facts, a sense of wonder at the history of the place.
What Giano and his collaborators did in Architecture of Aylesbury, and in Robert Lawson is just that. Synthesis. The cites give evidence, but not the story. The article is drawing the reader to the obvious conclusions. Obvious to someone who knows their stuff, that is, but not necessarily obvious to the uninformed reader. And Giano knows his stuff when we're talking about architectural history, and knows how to tell an engaging tale. With Aylesbury, the synthesis is around English market town architecture and trends and how Aylesbury fits in to that overall story and how it's a good example of market towns, county seats and the like. That is not original research. It's leading the reader on to conclusions that the bare facts, recited dryly, might not have led him to. But it's not OR. Similarly with Robert Lawson, the bare facts do not themselves lead to the conclusion that Lawson had a huge impact on the overall architecture of NZ unless you do some synthesis. But the conclusion is inescapable and presenting the material in a way that leads the reader to it is not OR. It is instead, great writing.
3) On collaborating... I think where you went off the rails in your recent encounters with Giano is in how you approached collaboration. Every encyclopedia article that has more than one user's edits to it is, to a greater or lesser extent, a collaboration. Some successful, some not so much, but they are. To successfully collaborate, you need to get in the right mindset. You need to approach an article, especially one that is mostly the work of one person, and try to figure out what the writer is trying to achieve. I know what WP:OWN says, but it's a pride of craftsmanship thing. If you don't agree, the talk page is the place to start. Propose changes there and defend your thesis, defend why you don't think the article should be telling the story it is. But to come up to an article and start blithely ripping up what was done, even if you are absolutely certain that policy supports you, that's not collaboration. That's an adversarial relationship and you are not going to be received well even by the most friendly and calmest editor out there. If at Lawson you had instead of ripping out stuff and replacing it with your cite from an NZ 'pedia, brought forth the idea, on the talk page, that perhaps not everyone sees Lawson in the same way, and could the article be enhanced to bring that out? You could well have edited that section to include the notion that there are differing views of Lawson's influence, and present some of them, using your material as cites. That would have been received much more graciously I would think. Similarly with Aylesbury, instead of ripping out everything that wasn't inline cited (which policy may support you on, or may well not, it's not open and shut), you could have identified a few things you had doubts about, done some of the research yourself, worked to enhance the cites yourself and showed that you cared about collaborating with those there already.
I urge you to try some honest and open collaboration with others on these two articles, or perhaps on some others. I think you'll find it a much more pleasant, and ultimately much more rewarding, experience, to work with others to jointly take a great article and make it even better, than to try to show that others violated some policy or another and that your rewrite is better than their version.
In summary, you may not agree but that's what I think. ++ Lar: t/ c 20:40, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
May I ask how recent Andranikpasha's disruption on other wikis is? In terms of months, weeks, days. Your assistance here is greatly appreciated, so thank you. Cheers, Moreschi If you've written a quality article... 15:57, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
Hi. Please accept my sincere apologies for not letting you know about the thread at WP:AE, next time I will surely let you know about any discussion that might require your attention. Regards, Grandmaster ( talk) 17:00, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
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I responded to your comment on my talk page. And maybe when you get a chance you could stop by here. Thanks! DiligentTerrier • talk | sign here 20:37, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
Hello, Lar! I read your message something like 12 times, and was utterly confused by it. Then I noticed the "[Show]" link, and all became clear. I must be drunk on V8 juice at the time. :-) Anyway...
In light of recent events, I agree with the sentiments you expressed in your message. I wrote out some procedures at User:XDanielx/Recall; please let me know if you have any comments.
Best,
— xDanielx T/ C\ R 01:06, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
how we first met, your kind words mean quite a bit to me. I would say my response is a "not now" rather than a "not never". I nominated someone for adminship once (Rigadoun, co-nommed with Xoloz) and I have to say I was a nervous wreck on Rigadoun's behalf the entire week. I wouldn't be as nervous in my own request, but I fear I would be unproductive. Although the concerns I expressed to Wizardman were genuine, I also worry of disrupting my creative energy. -- JayHenry ( talk) 04:14, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
There are some issues surrounding Barack Obama's article, regarding the whisper-campaign regarding his religion. This edit to the forked article on the issue (as well as others by the same user) concern me greatly. S/he has also followed me to the Village Pump, where I went to solicit an outside view on the matter, and harangued me there. Any assistance/perspective you could offer would be great. Regards, Bellwether B C 17:55, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
See User talk:Archtransit, last 6 sections, may be the next one, you may want to take a look. We need a Batman-like spotlight for you. Mr. Recall-man ;) NoSeptember 22:34, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
On this subject, take a look at this and see what you think. The 30 days restriction is pretty clever, given the last few days. Avruch talk 15:49, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
Corvus Cornix made a big issue of the recall during my RFA (and others' RFA) so I pledge to work with him/her. Add your name too and feel free to place ideas here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Archtransit/sandbox2
As far as the 30 days, that can be removed in the final draft. Archtransit ( talk) 21:39, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
You've already commented at the FAR of A Tale of a Tub. Would you take another peek at it, and slap me with a minnow (or a trout) if you think I'm being too hard on that reviewer? I had a big problem with the nomination when it popped up on my watchlist. However, I've tried to remain civil throughout. I'd appreciate your view on whether or not I've maintained that. I tend to get frustrated with the process wonkery that sometimes overwhelms the writing and editing of the project (as you know), so I'd appreciate being "pulled back from the edge" a bit, if you feel I'm approaching it. Regards, -- Bellwether B C 14:03, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
If you have some time available can you please run a CU on User:32Ralmal, I'm under the impression that this is a user that I blocked yesterday for disruption, the problem is that this user's block is being discussed over and I want to know if he is related or not before shortening the block. - Caribbean~H.Q. 14:34, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
Seeing as you participate on that talk page a bit, I've left a suggestion on it which might be of interest. I'm trying to get consensus to add it: feel free to have a look at my suggestion: it's small, but may be useful. Thanks, -- Solumeiras talk 18:32, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
You know when you say something, and then suddenly wonder if you said it in the wrong place...? Can you have a quick look over this in case it needs bringing to the attention of somebody? Cheers. LessHeard vanU ( talk) 20:44, 17 January 2008 (UTC) (I've also bought it to the attention Alison.) LessHeard vanU ( talk) 20:47, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
LessHeard: A broken redirect does not redirect, it loads itself. See? - Revolving Bugbear 23:12, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
...for your support in my recently closed Request for Adminship. I am more than a bit stunned by the outcome, which appears to have finished at 146 supports, no opposes, and one abstention. I am particularly grateful to Keilana and Kingboyk for their recent encouragement, and most specifically to Pastordavid, for having seen fit to nominate me. I also want to make it very clear to everyone that I have no intentions of changing my name again, so the servers should be safe for a while.
In the event you ever believe that I would ever able to assist in the future, I would be honored if you were to contact me regarding the matter. I can't guarantee results, unfortunately, but I will do what I can. Thank you again.
By the way, I know the image isn't necessarily appropriate, but I am rather fond of it, and it at least reflects the degree of honor I feel at the result. And it's hard to go wrong with a Picture of the Year candidate.
Now, off to a few last tasks before starting work in earnest on the various templates I promised I'd work on.
I would welcome the prospect of working with you, sir. John Carter ( talk) 22:27, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
Rudget ( talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) appears to have been compromised. Can you look at the AN thread and help him please. Jehochman Talk 16:56, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
Just FYI, I'm piggybacking off your recall criteria until I devise my own.
Cheers! - Revolving Bugbear 19:14, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
The new volume of Wikipedia:US Roads' newsletter is out here. Mitch 32 contribs 20:33, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
Just a quick question before I go. Can bureaucrats remove +sysop flag? Regards, Rudget . 22:01, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
I've replied there. I respect you a great deal, but the "are fooling yourself" remark seems off the mark for me. Forgive me if I misinterpreted but could you consider rephrasing? Warm regards, Mercury at 19:49, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
Hi Lar. Are you still admin coaching. If you are, would you be willing to take on a new coachee. I know that admin coaching takes alot of effort and is totally voluntary so you can refuse. User:Bluegoblin7 has asked me to find an admin coach for him. Also, I would be willing to help out where I can but obviously Im not experienced enough to do everything yet. User:John has said hes happy with it as long as the coachee isn't in a rush. Thanks very much. Tbo 157 (talk) 17:20, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
How do you feel about very simple criteria? Jehochman Talk 14:13, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
While I have everyone's ear, what do people think of Radiant's campaign against this idea? Seems somewhat polemical, see for instance Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/MBK004. Also see the unilateral delete of WP:AAA, which I restored since I think Radiant doesn't own it, others commented too and it's of historical interest. ++ Lar: t/ c 15:16, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
If I were writing a process, it would probably consist of something like 'Three admins in good standing ask for my reconfirmation within 30 days, I will list a reconfirmation RfA'. Admins are trusted users, so it eliminates the spurious recall requests more easily than edit count requirements. RfA is an existing process, so you don't need to invent something with new rules and clerks. Avruch talk 15:25, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
I just revised my (somewhat confusing) criteria and was wondering if you could take a look? Thanks so much. Keilana| Parlez ici 14:22, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
I agree. Except that my neutral may be your hopelessly biased and vice versa. It may be an insoluble problem. ++ Lar: t/ c 17:52, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
Just a quick note, I have replied. Regards, Mercury ( talk) 00:11, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
Hello Lar. Thank you for your efforts in promoting the pictures I took at the Pena Palace (particularly Image:Pena Palace back.JPG, of course. Needs a correction for the tilt, something I can't do coz I currently lack a decent image editor). I think that this one might just have a good chance. And it isn't tilted. I've recently started expanding Pena National Palace but I've been quite busy these days. Help is always welcome, so hop in anytime you feel like expanding an article about this amazing place. ;-) Best regards, Hús ö nd 00:47, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
Hello again, Lar. We have a problem editor with Brwarrior2325. Check out the edits he made in the Debbie Stabenow article. Steelbeard1 ( talk) 16:51, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
Sorry about that, not from the Great lakes :). Mercury ( talk) 20:10, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
-- Daniel Case ( talk) 03:00, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
A two year bout of temporary insanity ;) Mackensen (talk) 17:28, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
Not only wicked fast, but wicked useful. :) Keilana| Parlez ici 21:22, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
I'm sorry. I didn't realize it was an Amorrow sock, just that the user's edits on Byrne were disruptive. I never noticed that there was no wikilink to the Byrne article. Cool Hand Luke 04:15, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
I recognize that this user page belongs to the Wikipedia project and not to me personally. As such, I recognize that I am expected to respectfully abide by community standards as to the presentation and content of this page, and that if I do not like these guidelines, I am welcome either to engage in reasonable discussion about it, to publish my material elsewhere, or to leave the project.
This is an archive of User talk:Lar from about 1 January 2008 through about 1 February 2008. Please do not comment here, use my current talk page for that, thanks. It is part of a series of archives, see the box at right for the list and to navigate to others. An index to all my talk page archives, automatically maintained by User:HBC Archive Indexerbot can be found at User:Lar/TalkArchiveIndex. |
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Hoi Lar, could you have a look at your de. talk page please? -- :Bdk: 03:30, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
Hello, I was asked to notify you and other people that tag images, or run image tagging scripts, of this. Please check out WP:TODAY, which grew off of the recent AN conversation. You will be particularly interested in this section: Wikipedia:TODAY#Early 2008 trial run. Please weigh in on the talk page there? And if possible, let me know who else should know about this? Lawrence Cohen 18:31, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
I'm not quite sure what happened there. Should I change the AfD outcome? Keilana talk (recall) 19:13, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
I thought you were just making things unnecessarily complicated Lar ;) However, it turns out that True Blue (the dab page) has no real edit history. That's at True Blue (producer), deleted. The easiest way to solve this (without going through all the edits one by one, yuck) would be restore the producer page, move it to True Blue (delete to make way for move), delete the redirect left behind at the producer page, and restore any post 27 Dec edits at True Blue. User:Hiphophead88's edits at True Blue are a cut and paste job, probably the cause of all this, and can stay deleted; indeed his edits at the producer article could probably stay deleted too.
Now, you up for all that or do you want me to do it? Doesn't seem worth discussing as a deletion review, there was nothing wrong with the closure just a bit of a mess to be fixed in the edit histories... -- kingboyk ( talk) 00:36, 5 January 2008 (UTC) the edit where he originally replaced the dab page. I've looked in more detail and it seems to me all his edits can stay deleted as they're covered by the AfD or they're copyvio. -- kingboyk ( talk) 00:38, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
Which featured articles/candidates are you referring to? To my knowledge I haven't edited any in the past month aside from the Lawson one - though I may have done so in passing, and I'm now curious to see what I did to them that has caused you such concern. I appreciate that not all my edits are done with sparkling readability in mind - but I aint a complete dunce when it comes to writing. I am a published writer. I have earned a living from writing and editing at various points in my life, as well as some modest acclaim and a couple of modest awards! In my day I even had my ten minutes of fame on BBC2! ;-) SilkTork * SilkyTalk 01:41, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
There are multiple themes in your response and I have been thinking a bit how to respond. I'll try to address the points separately
1) On friends and enemies... I'm here to help build an encyclopedia. While it is true I've made some friends in my time here, and perhaps some enemies, that's not my goal, that's not why I am here. I want to treat everyone fairly and impartially, and evaluate them based on what they contribute here. I try very hard to do that. Moreover, I try very hard not to hold grudges, not to view those I disagree with as adversaries, not to pursue vendettas, not to bear anyone ill will, and above all, not to let myself get worked up about how others perceive me. That should not be my focus, work that forwards the project ought to be. We are all of us human here, and one can not always achieve that but I think it's the goal that all of us here to forward the work ought to have. (see also meatball:ForgiveAndForget)
With that as context, I don't think I bear you any particular ill will, or see you as a bad guy, or that our first meeting has to colour how we perceive each other forever more (an aside, one of the admins I admire the very most here, had a quite unproductive initial relationship with me, and I spoke out strongly against his adminship at the time of his RfA... we both changed and learned and I think he now thinks of me pretty highly too... it was because of what he and I did, what he and I said, what actions he and I took as we moved forward, not what had happened in the past, that changed our views.) I do think that you and I can and will work together productively and harmoniously in future if you wish it. I never want anything other than that in my relationships with other editors.
2) On Original Research versus "synthesis"... You are absolutely right when you say that this project is no place for Original Research. But I want to talk to you about something I call "synthesis" (and others call "engaging the reader"). I am not a very good writer, so this example will suffer for that, but I know my own work best so it's where I draw from. I think every good article should do more than recite facts, it should tell a story that makes the reader want to read to the very end. Things often are more than just the sum of the facts about them, after all. Consider an article I myself hope will be an FA someday, SS Christopher Columbus. I could have just recited all the facts about her, given a few pictures, and been done. But there's a story behind that article, the story of a man, a prolific inventor, an immigrant to our country, who invented something quite odd, and in the teeth of derision and ridicule, made a minor success of it, changing nautical engineering for the better. The 'Chris' was part of that. Over her lifetime she carried 2 million people. I'm not sure I told the whole story successfully yet, the article peters out at the end, but consider this bit from the middle:
I didn't have to use that quote. In fact some might argue that it's unencyclopedic, and that I shouldn't have said that the captain "did just that", as I don't really know for sure. But it's an example of synthesis. I drew the conclusion, from the statistics and contemporary accounts that McArthur presided over a smashing success, and it's an obvious conclusion. And further, it's short, powerful phrasing, designed to engage the reader and make him or her want to find out how the story comes out (it actually has a tragic ending, the whalebacks were ultimately a failure, and 'chris' died under the scrappers torch in 1936 but that wasn't how it looked in 1893).
Consider another article which I also hope, maybe someday, could be an FA: Croton Dam (Michigan). It's a dam built in 1907 across a river most would view as fairly minor, generating not a lot of electricity. Pretty ho hum stuff. Except in fact there's a story behind it... When it was built, the power was transmitted over 50 miles away, at over 100,000 volts. Those were both huge technical breakthroughs at the time. Further it was a key milestone in the industrial development of a region, and part of a series of ever larger and more ambitious projects carried out by the Foote brothers in their building of Consumers Power, now part of a very large electric power company. And it turned 100 this year and is still in use, generating electricity. All that won't come out from a dry recitation of facts. It needs synthesis. Again, maybe I'm not all the way there, but that's what I want the reader to come away with. More than just facts, a sense of wonder at the history of the place.
What Giano and his collaborators did in Architecture of Aylesbury, and in Robert Lawson is just that. Synthesis. The cites give evidence, but not the story. The article is drawing the reader to the obvious conclusions. Obvious to someone who knows their stuff, that is, but not necessarily obvious to the uninformed reader. And Giano knows his stuff when we're talking about architectural history, and knows how to tell an engaging tale. With Aylesbury, the synthesis is around English market town architecture and trends and how Aylesbury fits in to that overall story and how it's a good example of market towns, county seats and the like. That is not original research. It's leading the reader on to conclusions that the bare facts, recited dryly, might not have led him to. But it's not OR. Similarly with Robert Lawson, the bare facts do not themselves lead to the conclusion that Lawson had a huge impact on the overall architecture of NZ unless you do some synthesis. But the conclusion is inescapable and presenting the material in a way that leads the reader to it is not OR. It is instead, great writing.
3) On collaborating... I think where you went off the rails in your recent encounters with Giano is in how you approached collaboration. Every encyclopedia article that has more than one user's edits to it is, to a greater or lesser extent, a collaboration. Some successful, some not so much, but they are. To successfully collaborate, you need to get in the right mindset. You need to approach an article, especially one that is mostly the work of one person, and try to figure out what the writer is trying to achieve. I know what WP:OWN says, but it's a pride of craftsmanship thing. If you don't agree, the talk page is the place to start. Propose changes there and defend your thesis, defend why you don't think the article should be telling the story it is. But to come up to an article and start blithely ripping up what was done, even if you are absolutely certain that policy supports you, that's not collaboration. That's an adversarial relationship and you are not going to be received well even by the most friendly and calmest editor out there. If at Lawson you had instead of ripping out stuff and replacing it with your cite from an NZ 'pedia, brought forth the idea, on the talk page, that perhaps not everyone sees Lawson in the same way, and could the article be enhanced to bring that out? You could well have edited that section to include the notion that there are differing views of Lawson's influence, and present some of them, using your material as cites. That would have been received much more graciously I would think. Similarly with Aylesbury, instead of ripping out everything that wasn't inline cited (which policy may support you on, or may well not, it's not open and shut), you could have identified a few things you had doubts about, done some of the research yourself, worked to enhance the cites yourself and showed that you cared about collaborating with those there already.
I urge you to try some honest and open collaboration with others on these two articles, or perhaps on some others. I think you'll find it a much more pleasant, and ultimately much more rewarding, experience, to work with others to jointly take a great article and make it even better, than to try to show that others violated some policy or another and that your rewrite is better than their version.
In summary, you may not agree but that's what I think. ++ Lar: t/ c 20:40, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
May I ask how recent Andranikpasha's disruption on other wikis is? In terms of months, weeks, days. Your assistance here is greatly appreciated, so thank you. Cheers, Moreschi If you've written a quality article... 15:57, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
Hi. Please accept my sincere apologies for not letting you know about the thread at WP:AE, next time I will surely let you know about any discussion that might require your attention. Regards, Grandmaster ( talk) 17:00, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for uploading
Image:Kiss.png. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a
claim of fair use. However, it is currently
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I responded to your comment on my talk page. And maybe when you get a chance you could stop by here. Thanks! DiligentTerrier • talk | sign here 20:37, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
Hello, Lar! I read your message something like 12 times, and was utterly confused by it. Then I noticed the "[Show]" link, and all became clear. I must be drunk on V8 juice at the time. :-) Anyway...
In light of recent events, I agree with the sentiments you expressed in your message. I wrote out some procedures at User:XDanielx/Recall; please let me know if you have any comments.
Best,
— xDanielx T/ C\ R 01:06, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
how we first met, your kind words mean quite a bit to me. I would say my response is a "not now" rather than a "not never". I nominated someone for adminship once (Rigadoun, co-nommed with Xoloz) and I have to say I was a nervous wreck on Rigadoun's behalf the entire week. I wouldn't be as nervous in my own request, but I fear I would be unproductive. Although the concerns I expressed to Wizardman were genuine, I also worry of disrupting my creative energy. -- JayHenry ( talk) 04:14, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
There are some issues surrounding Barack Obama's article, regarding the whisper-campaign regarding his religion. This edit to the forked article on the issue (as well as others by the same user) concern me greatly. S/he has also followed me to the Village Pump, where I went to solicit an outside view on the matter, and harangued me there. Any assistance/perspective you could offer would be great. Regards, Bellwether B C 17:55, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
See User talk:Archtransit, last 6 sections, may be the next one, you may want to take a look. We need a Batman-like spotlight for you. Mr. Recall-man ;) NoSeptember 22:34, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
On this subject, take a look at this and see what you think. The 30 days restriction is pretty clever, given the last few days. Avruch talk 15:49, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
Corvus Cornix made a big issue of the recall during my RFA (and others' RFA) so I pledge to work with him/her. Add your name too and feel free to place ideas here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Archtransit/sandbox2
As far as the 30 days, that can be removed in the final draft. Archtransit ( talk) 21:39, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
You've already commented at the FAR of A Tale of a Tub. Would you take another peek at it, and slap me with a minnow (or a trout) if you think I'm being too hard on that reviewer? I had a big problem with the nomination when it popped up on my watchlist. However, I've tried to remain civil throughout. I'd appreciate your view on whether or not I've maintained that. I tend to get frustrated with the process wonkery that sometimes overwhelms the writing and editing of the project (as you know), so I'd appreciate being "pulled back from the edge" a bit, if you feel I'm approaching it. Regards, -- Bellwether B C 14:03, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
If you have some time available can you please run a CU on User:32Ralmal, I'm under the impression that this is a user that I blocked yesterday for disruption, the problem is that this user's block is being discussed over and I want to know if he is related or not before shortening the block. - Caribbean~H.Q. 14:34, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
Seeing as you participate on that talk page a bit, I've left a suggestion on it which might be of interest. I'm trying to get consensus to add it: feel free to have a look at my suggestion: it's small, but may be useful. Thanks, -- Solumeiras talk 18:32, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
You know when you say something, and then suddenly wonder if you said it in the wrong place...? Can you have a quick look over this in case it needs bringing to the attention of somebody? Cheers. LessHeard vanU ( talk) 20:44, 17 January 2008 (UTC) (I've also bought it to the attention Alison.) LessHeard vanU ( talk) 20:47, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
LessHeard: A broken redirect does not redirect, it loads itself. See? - Revolving Bugbear 23:12, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
...for your support in my recently closed Request for Adminship. I am more than a bit stunned by the outcome, which appears to have finished at 146 supports, no opposes, and one abstention. I am particularly grateful to Keilana and Kingboyk for their recent encouragement, and most specifically to Pastordavid, for having seen fit to nominate me. I also want to make it very clear to everyone that I have no intentions of changing my name again, so the servers should be safe for a while.
In the event you ever believe that I would ever able to assist in the future, I would be honored if you were to contact me regarding the matter. I can't guarantee results, unfortunately, but I will do what I can. Thank you again.
By the way, I know the image isn't necessarily appropriate, but I am rather fond of it, and it at least reflects the degree of honor I feel at the result. And it's hard to go wrong with a Picture of the Year candidate.
Now, off to a few last tasks before starting work in earnest on the various templates I promised I'd work on.
I would welcome the prospect of working with you, sir. John Carter ( talk) 22:27, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
Rudget ( talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) appears to have been compromised. Can you look at the AN thread and help him please. Jehochman Talk 16:56, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
Just FYI, I'm piggybacking off your recall criteria until I devise my own.
Cheers! - Revolving Bugbear 19:14, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
The new volume of Wikipedia:US Roads' newsletter is out here. Mitch 32 contribs 20:33, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
Just a quick question before I go. Can bureaucrats remove +sysop flag? Regards, Rudget . 22:01, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
I've replied there. I respect you a great deal, but the "are fooling yourself" remark seems off the mark for me. Forgive me if I misinterpreted but could you consider rephrasing? Warm regards, Mercury at 19:49, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
Hi Lar. Are you still admin coaching. If you are, would you be willing to take on a new coachee. I know that admin coaching takes alot of effort and is totally voluntary so you can refuse. User:Bluegoblin7 has asked me to find an admin coach for him. Also, I would be willing to help out where I can but obviously Im not experienced enough to do everything yet. User:John has said hes happy with it as long as the coachee isn't in a rush. Thanks very much. Tbo 157 (talk) 17:20, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
How do you feel about very simple criteria? Jehochman Talk 14:13, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
While I have everyone's ear, what do people think of Radiant's campaign against this idea? Seems somewhat polemical, see for instance Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/MBK004. Also see the unilateral delete of WP:AAA, which I restored since I think Radiant doesn't own it, others commented too and it's of historical interest. ++ Lar: t/ c 15:16, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
If I were writing a process, it would probably consist of something like 'Three admins in good standing ask for my reconfirmation within 30 days, I will list a reconfirmation RfA'. Admins are trusted users, so it eliminates the spurious recall requests more easily than edit count requirements. RfA is an existing process, so you don't need to invent something with new rules and clerks. Avruch talk 15:25, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
I just revised my (somewhat confusing) criteria and was wondering if you could take a look? Thanks so much. Keilana| Parlez ici 14:22, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
I agree. Except that my neutral may be your hopelessly biased and vice versa. It may be an insoluble problem. ++ Lar: t/ c 17:52, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
Just a quick note, I have replied. Regards, Mercury ( talk) 00:11, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
Hello Lar. Thank you for your efforts in promoting the pictures I took at the Pena Palace (particularly Image:Pena Palace back.JPG, of course. Needs a correction for the tilt, something I can't do coz I currently lack a decent image editor). I think that this one might just have a good chance. And it isn't tilted. I've recently started expanding Pena National Palace but I've been quite busy these days. Help is always welcome, so hop in anytime you feel like expanding an article about this amazing place. ;-) Best regards, Hús ö nd 00:47, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
Hello again, Lar. We have a problem editor with Brwarrior2325. Check out the edits he made in the Debbie Stabenow article. Steelbeard1 ( talk) 16:51, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
Sorry about that, not from the Great lakes :). Mercury ( talk) 20:10, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
-- Daniel Case ( talk) 03:00, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
A two year bout of temporary insanity ;) Mackensen (talk) 17:28, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
Not only wicked fast, but wicked useful. :) Keilana| Parlez ici 21:22, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
I'm sorry. I didn't realize it was an Amorrow sock, just that the user's edits on Byrne were disruptive. I never noticed that there was no wikilink to the Byrne article. Cool Hand Luke 04:15, 31 January 2008 (UTC)