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Hello Jimbo Wales,
could you please take these words out of the appeal? As well in the other languages, because this is simply wrong. You cannot use it in any way you want but in order with the granted licenses. Regards Catfisheye 15:37, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
In Italian: Il contenuto di Wikipedia può essere utilizzato liberamente da chiunque per qualunque scopo. The content of Wikipedia can be used freely by everyone in every way. Maybe liberamente has also the meaning "freely but in order with the terms of use", but it seems quite unlikely to me. -- Catfisheye ( talk) 17:39, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
Same thing in Spanish: Cualquiera puede usar libremente el contenido de Wikipedia para cualquier propósito. and French: Le contenu de Wikipédia est libre d'être utilisé par tout le monde, pour tout usage. and Portuguese: Todo o conteúdo da Wikipédia é livre para uso por qualquer pessoa e para qualquer finalidade. Dutch: De inhoud van Wikipedia is vrijelijk te gebruiken door iedereen en voor ieder doeleinde. I guess there is no letter in Latin, so here my knowledge of languages does stop. -- Catfisheye ( talk) 17:46, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
And because this is your talkpage and your words and the translation of your words: Jimbo Wales what are you going to do? -- Catfisheye ( talk) 18:40, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
If I may butt in, I may be able to help clarify something about the definitions here. As written in English, the sentence implies knowledge, which is a synonym for information. If we replaced the word information with knowledge it would not change the meaning. However, what Cyclopia is describing seems to be more related to syntax, (as it applies to linguistics), and syntax would not be a suitable synonym in that sentence. It's not cherry-picking. In a language as complex as English, context is everything. Hope that helps. Zaereth ( talk) 21:38, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
Hello Jimbo Wales. Thank you for ignoring my questions, -- Catfisheye ( talk) 13:30, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
Hi Jimbo:
Presently I am in the dock facing a site ban. This action can be found here. The spark igniting this case stemmed from a minor dispute, suddenly escalated by an administrator to become a Request for amendment of a prior case. IMO, no attention has been paid to due diligence in examining this issue.
I'd like some advice as to whether it is legitimate to piggyback what is not an amendment at all, but a brand-new sanction (a site ban), upon an old case. That old case presently calls for a topic ban on physics related matters. An earlier sanction from this case that put me on probation to observe WP etiquette has expired.
I think this very serious sanction that is not based upon the previous case should be required to be filed as a full case, and not piggybacked upon this old unrelated matter. That would allow some discovery of facts in this matter to take place, which has not been done so far.
What is your opinion? What can I do to obtain a full hearing on this matter? Brews ohare ( talk) 19:32, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
Poking into this just briefly, to me it looks like all sides are being dysfunctional here. It was doubtless unwise for Brews ohare to butt into Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Physics, where he had formerly argued the thing with the speed of light definition that got him banned. [2] Even so, the stuff he was saying there looks to be in good faith, [3] and Headbomb later said he gave him a "free pass" on it. [4] Then EdJohnston said that "anything in the natural sciences. In my mind, that includes mathematics.", a very debatable point. He also said "We have agreed to your stipulation that you may be blocked up to one week each time we decide that the new ban is violated." [5]
Now the way I see it, good arbitrators and administrators should mean what they say and say what they mean. If they want to ban someone from editing about "natural sciences", they should either explain in detail what that means to them ahead of time, or be willing to be contradicted when someone cites a contrary source, as Brews did. If they say someone can be blocked for a week, it shouldn't mean he'll be blocked for a year. If you're giving someone a free pass, you should forget about it and not hold it against him later - if you intend to hold it against him, that's not a free pass but a warning and should be clearly given as such at the time. I know that Brews o'hare can be very vocal in his self-defense, but even if that annoys someone that is not an argument. This shouldn't be about the editor but about maintaining the credibility of the arbitration process.
I would also question whether it is useful to find an edit engaged in a land war about one single solitary fact, and turn that into a broad, vague topic ban that only gets broader each time it comes into question. ArbCom had the opportunity to take a good science editor and redirect his energies into something productive, but instead they more or less forced him to become a permanent thorn in their own side. If this is how topic bans are going to be enforced, maybe you should just give up on them and block editors for some months instead. Of course, that's now what they've done, but they could have gotten here by a much shorter path, and tried a shorter ban.
Another worse than useless idea is Count Iblis saying "I have therefore decided that I will no longer recognize the validity of the blocks/topic bans on people like Rbj, William Connolley, Brews Ohare, Likebox, Polargeo, etc. etc. etc. etc. I encourage all of them to ignore any bans/blocks as that only poses a problem for the corrupted processes that lead to these people being bocked, which can only be a good thing." [6] This kind of provocateurism is highly counterproductive in real-life protest marches and it's not helping here either. Wnt ( talk) 04:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
"This kind of provocateurism is highly counterproductive in real-life protest marches and it's not helping here either." This has nothing to do with the case under discussion here in particular, it is just a conclusion I reached based on many incidents, most of them have nothing to do with Brews. The system has to be changed and that won't happen via thoughtful discussions only, because of entrenched positions. The reality already is that the way the system works is by reacting to incidents, and that reaction is not always a change for the better. Just consider this amendment on the CC case. That amendment was a reaction to an incident, which already is a negative indicator. Then, I attempt to pragmatically discuss a relevant issue here (had this been addressed when it was raised much earlier, the whole problem that eventually led to the amendment wouldn't have been necessary in the first place). But that discussion goes nowhere, it is even construed by an ArbCom member to be a content discussion of an CC article that has no place there :) .
Now, for the time being, we have to deal with the system as it exists. My input in the recent dispute regarding Brews has been given here and here and on the ArbCom pages where Brews was discussed. Count Iblis ( talk) 18:04, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
Wikipedia:AN#Wikipedia Experts. A simple opinion would be nice, but just an FYI if you didn't see it. / ƒETCH COMMS / 16:02, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
What does actually Wikipedia like to be? A political movement or an encyclopedia sticking to the facts? I don't understand why wikipedia refuses to use the name Myanmar. About common name: If the common name for USA were "United S**t from the A**" (sorry for these drastic words and comparison), should then wikipedia use that name? -- 112.205.7.91 ( talk) 18:50, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
Anyone check out Special:Contributions/112.205.7.91? Looks like we have a POV-pusher here who also engages in [ http://en.wikipedia.org/? title=United_Nations_Headquarters&diff=prev&oldid=397778829 vandalism]. Strange Passerby ( talk • contribs) 01:29, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
Hi Jimmy. I've seen your banners at the top of articles several times now, so I don't think seeing them again is going to affect whether I donate again or not. Is there anyway for me to customise the view so that I don't have to see them again? Thanks, 93.97.59.17 ( talk) 23:25, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
I can only speak for myself, but I think the appeal would have more resonance if it wasn't so closely associated with Jimbo. I'd be happy to donate to the project, but those ads give me the feeling that I'd be donating to Jimbo, which is a distinctly unappealing thought. Everyking ( talk) 06:00, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
Philippe's response was not that Jimmy's face in particular caused people to donate, but rather that a face, versus a text-only banner appealed to people. I can see that sort-of visual appeal working, but I have to agree that testing with only Jimmy's face, versus the faces of a dozen or a hundred randomly selected Wikipedians would have been a much better test. It shouldn't be that complex to create a rotating Wikipedian-face banner. Wjhonson ( talk) 21:26, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
Its very big, trying to get stuff sorted about copyright stuff.
so enjoy before its deleted :)
Sophie ( Talk) 18:37, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
Hey I wanted to thank you for having a open door policy with the editors here. While the answer isn't always what a person wants it is at the very least refreshing to see that you are a active member of and not above the wiki community. This is a awesome site and concept even with all the drama. Hell In A Bucket ( talk) 16:08, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
Hi, just a quick note to say that Jimbo's personal appeal banners seem to be causing a bit of a problem today, for me, at least. The banners keep reappearing even if one clicks to clear them. I gather from this discussion that I'm not the only one affected by this, and I have updated my Adblock filter accordingly. (I edit via Firefox for Mac, if that's of any significance) best, Shawn in Montreal ( talk) 20:58, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
Please see the new page
Wikipedia:Database reports/Talk pages by size (to be updated weekly). This talk page ranks sixth, with 19085 kilobytes.
Perhaps this will motivate greater efficiency in the use of kilobytes.
—
Wavelength (
talk)
21:43, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
Might be interesting for you.-- Müdigkeit ( talk) 06:22, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
Jimbo,
It's bugged me for quite a while that we have subject specific notability guidelines like WP:PROF and WP:ATH that are being used to override WP:V in deletion debates. These guidelines allow articles sourced entirely from self published works in violation of WP:SELFPUB and our basic principles of verifiability. I brought this up at the last BLP RFC and it attracted significant agreement, but as the RFC closer rightly noted, this practice is so ingrained in the community, that it's almost impossible to declare consensus on the matter.
Over and over, I see the number of times that a professor's work has been cited ( h-index) being used as a criteria for keeping or deleting an article, regardless of the existence of independent biographical coverage. We then base the article entirely on their self-published biography, or even worse, whatever the person wrote about themselves in Wikipedia, since many of these are autobiographies. This recent AfD is a prime example of WP:PROF overriding the requirement for secondary sources.
The fundamental problem here is that the subject specific notability guidelines are taken to override the general notability guideline, which requires actual third party coverage, a prerequisite for satisfying WP:V. Do you have any ideas about how to address this? Do you think there's any way that you or the foundation can provide further leadership on this matter? Gigs ( talk) 04:22, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
As if on cue, an RfC has opened that, in my opinion, is a symptom of WP:ATHLETE having a bar that is far too low and that doesn't require secondary source coverage. The RfC asks if we should have special notability standards for child athletes. Gigs ( talk) 02:19, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
As an indirect result of editing Bryan Fischer I today looked at Brian Fisher. (The resemblance between the two is limited to their names.) I was surprised to read there that When not working in the field, Dr. Fisher lives with the banana slugs in a treehouse in Marin County. Carefully marked up, but slightly unidiomatic, highly implausible, and of course completely unsourced.
The not-marked-up predecessor of this turned out to have been added by a hit-and-run halfwit--what? "NPA"? so block me!--with a throwaway username on 15 May 2009. Some other user solemnly marked it up later.
I'm unrelated to Brian Fisher. I'd never heard of him till today. I'll bet he's heard of Wikipedia though.
This isn't at the Seigenthaler level, of course, but it's embarrassing.
Wikipedia seems to work hard to avoid anything that might deter newcomers from editing. But I think there are way too many newcomers and the people deterred by some hurdles would have a disproportionate number of halfwits. I'm for a slower-growing but better Wikipedia. Tama1988 ( talk) 04:00, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
Thank you all for your thoughtful responses. In my own talk page, AniMate pointed to credible sources for this claim. (It's odd that they're phrased in exactly the same way, with "the banana slugs"--my emphasis--even though it's the first time the slugs are mentioned.) So I've readded the material, but this time slightly rephrased, and with sources.
I now think I was wrong. Certainly I should have Googled before moaning about the matter here.
My confidence newly shattered, I shall now refrain from deleting from William Foley His favorite colour is purple as seen by the numerous shirts he wears in that colour, and enjoys the Reuben sandwich. / Quotes:"We are all male americans" (my latest bizarre discovery). After all, Foley's photo on his own web page shows him in a purple sweater, there's nothing either implausible or embarrassing about an enjoyment of Reuben sandwiches, and for all I know Foley could have used "We are all male Americans" as an example in some linguistics exercise. Proper sourcing would be welcome, though. Tama1988 ( talk) 10:25, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
I think there should be something that automatically puts a message and on a user's talk page that doesn't have and edit AND (not OR or AND/OR) hasn't edited in 2 years, then usurps them. That would make it alot easier for people that want their username changed to not have to go through the usurpation process, because the username they want is already usurped. A Word Of Advice From A Beast: Don't Be Silly, Wrap Your Willy! 00:55, 22 November 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Beastly21 ( talk • contribs)
Dear Jimmy, I am a Wikipedia contributor in the Portuguese language and am requesting your intervention in the project. There exists among us a tremendous amount of intrigue, harassment, personal threats, inadequate block, clash of egos and power abuses. I can not stand such injustice, so many users with destructive behavior, so much political intrigue and partiality in administrators. The new users are intimidated and abandon the project, edit wars proliferate and the bad users trying to silence their opponents with lock requests without foundation. Users with bad behavior are protected by administrators and users who try to expose corruption are blocked. The rule is trying to impose views and threaten to block those who disagree with arbitrariness. I am tired. This project is broken, please dismisses administrators and cancel their arbitrary actions, otherwise the credibility of Wikipedia is extinguished. Thank you.
Guys, my request was removed by a brazilian steward. This is more a way of hiding the truth from the stewards. Please forward this request for intervention as possible, I do not have experience or good English, so my ability to act is limited. Thanks again. Leandro LV ( talk) 02:22, 23 November 2010 (UTC) No, it was moved here.-- Müdigkeit ( talk) 03:11, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
This one has all of your your favourites in one horrendous bundle. Except perhaps a member of the British aristocracy.
Spare a thought for poor Moonriddengirl: User talk:Moonriddengirl#Robert Garside. Xe has paid editors on the one side, and a BLP subject who has been edit warring for almost three years on the other. The paid editors apparently all work for a U.S. publishing company subsidiary and are paid to edit the biographies of their clients. One can deduce that the forty single-purpose accounts to be found here are fellow employees, or perhaps just the one person. They clash because the BLP subject doesn't like the information that is in the Franz Lidz article, apparently added by the paid editors, that is about xem. The BLP subject has, separately, been complaining and edit warring over the article about xem since April 2007. The situation has already descended to legal threats being bandied about, and responded to via edit summaries here, here, and here.
Asking for the British aristocracy to be involved as well would seem greedy at this point.
Uncle G ( talk) 17:43, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
Sorry for "The day The Earth Stood Still" reference but I wanted to grab your attention.
I remember seeing this appeal last year and had a great idea for you. It's a little twist on an established concept and is definitely not advertising but more a community service concept. Hating to just give it away to some ladder climbing robot reader, I didn't follow up. I'd be happy to give this idea to you and Wiki.
If you run with it, I would ask only that you to consider me to play an integral part of promoting this revenue generating idea.
I will present you with my idea, if I see a non robot response.
75.177.110.227 ( talk) 04:20, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
2011 will be here soon.
Do you think it would be a good idea to have a voluntary code of conduct for editors for the new year? Right now, there is a lot of bad behavior in Wikipedia. Sometimes people are just being rude, other times some edits seem like troublemaking.
If there is any interest, I'd be happy to draft it with others. However, I'm not going to waste my time creating a document if there is opposition. பின்லாந்துF ( talk) 20:03, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
Are you going to start charging people to use Wikipedia? I really don't have the money to donate and it seems like Wikipedia is going through very dire times. I hope you don't charge to use it (otherwise, I'll have to use Encarta or pull out my old World Book). Please don't. If you have to do anything, put up ads.
Please! Please don't charge! Waaaaa!!!! I want to cry over this. Don't charge us poor peons. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.178.153.244 ( talk) 16:40, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
I wouldn't mind giving money to Wikipedia, or, say, paying a couple of quid a year to use it. But your ugly mug doesn't turn me on or make me wanna donate you know...
No offence, like. I'm sure women go for the grizzly look. But I don't need it! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.181.253.128 ( talk) 19:31, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
Hi Jimbo
You made the quote above during this interview. Fortunately you're wrong, the alemannic Wikipedia (my home wiki) covers all swiss-german idioms. Unfortunately for us you didn't knew. But surely next time! ;-) -- Umschattiger ( talk) 15:52, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
Who is this "Kartika" person, and why is her "personal appeal" being featured? Kartika, while registered on both sites, has never made an edit (at least under that name) to either the English or Indonesian Wikipedias. [9] [10] Could you please clarify this for the readership? Is she actually a "Wikipedia author" at all? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.227.56.16 ( talk) 18:48, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
This is what I am talking about. 68.227.56.16 ( talk) 18:58, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
This refers to the appeal here [11].
There are initiatives underway regarding presence in India, but I didn't pay attention so someone more knowledgeable will comment on that. However, I will say this about plastic money. Sadly, so many people have plastic money now, that for most fundraising drives, the cost of arranging for members of staff in a particular country to receive, cash, account, account for, legally clear, audit, etc etc., individual cheque/check (spelling varies according to location, so you were not wrong) donations, is more than the amount of money likely to be received. You also have to consider the possibility that the organisation then has to make separate arrangements for whatever restrictions exist on transferring such monies out of the country back to the parent organisation, then they have to somehow make arrangements for explaining all of these various expenses-incurred-in-fundraising in their accounting in the home country of how fundraising expenses were incurred, and they need extra people (or a portion of some people's time, possibly involving legal or accounting expertise) in order to do this. It just all gets too much.
I know little about Wikipedia's costs, but given its popularity and the robust existing software base, it is obvious that server hosting is a much larger proportion of the cost than software development, so outsourcing the entire outfit to India seems unlikely to happen anytime soon. -- Demiurge1000 ( talk) 02:52, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
I wouldn't mind giving money to Wikipedia, or, say, paying a couple of quid a year to use it. But your ugly mug doesn't turn me on or make me wanna donate you know...
No offence, like. I'm sure women go for the grizzly look. But I don't need it! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.181.253.128 ( talk) 19:31, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
Jim, I'm certain you hear this on a regularly; you are a handsome man with expressive eyes. Very striking. Secondly, I will be in St. Pete. mid. to late Jan. 2011 looking for work and visiting friends. If you know anyone looking for assistant for office or/and home front I've worn many hats in my day and enjoy helping others. Any questions, any ideas for work would be appreciated. thank you, Kate Orcaskayaker (talk) Orcaskayaker ( talk) 07:34, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
Holiday Card from Mlpearc
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Mlpearc powwow 19:07, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
I am sure you already know, and your feelings on the matter are very well known and understood but there are several conversations currently going on regarding allowing paid editors. I know that usually you allow the community to make a lot of the decisions on policy but in this case I thought you could voice your opinion eventhough you have done so on the subject multiple times in the past. If you do read through you will see that my opinion leans towards strictly controlled allowance so they cant edit in hiding as they currently do but I also understand that there could and would be second and third level affects to doing it (such as a loss of editors, monetary contributions or possibly affecting the nonprofit status of the WMF and WP). I for one and Im sure others would agree that it would be greatly appreciate if you could voice your opinion of the conversation. Here is the link to one: Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard#Wikipedia Experts (there are a couple others as well). Thanks in advance. -- Kumioko ( talk) 19:13, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
(Was gonna post on meta, but that leads me back here)
In recent days, there have been complaints about wikileaks on meta ("again," I presume); most of the posts are quite angry in tone. Maybe you could go around a bit more and make it clear that we don't control them and are not associated with them. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 > haneʼ 21:25, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
This is a case of an administrator not liking an article that has survived AFD so he speedily deletes it.
I DO NOT ASK YOU TO INTERVENE in the ANI question but to look at the larger picture
I merely point out to you that Wikipedia is much associated with you. Your picture is on every page asking for money. Yet, these shenanigans are happening are happening right under your picture.
You once wrote a national newspaper editorial about incivility on the internet. When unruly behavior, particularly that of an administrator keeps happening in Wikipedia, people either decide not to donate or wonder what on earth is happening.
If you have ideas to make Wikipedia fair, kind, predictable administrative behavior, and a nice place, please make a comment! If you think a little rudeness and shenanigans (like on facebook) is ok, that is a fair opinion and please say so! Happy Thanksgiving to you! Thank you in advance for your consideration to my question. பின்லாந்துF ( talk) 00:43, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
Me (Chap in the navy uniform) and Fiona (WikiContrib lady you spoke to who was going through RfA) really enjoyed meeting you today! We'll hopefully see you tomorrow, and again on the 19th! Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry ( talk) 01:29, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
I thought you might be interested in a discussion taking place at Wikipedia_talk:Wikipedia_Signpost/2010-11-22/In_the_news#Jimbo's dangerous incursions into international politics. -- Ohconfucius ¡digame! 03:33, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
Just came across this. I thought that you might enjoy seeing your appeal in a flashy, catchy, musical portrayal. Your appeal is beginning to go viral. ~ Super Hamster Talk Contribs 16:35, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
Hilarious. Although, at 302 views so far, it isn't exactly storming the Intarwebs. :-) -- Jimbo Wales ( talk) 18:00, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
Here is another evidence of the caos. (in Portuguese) This user makes check user without permission! Leandro LV ( talk) 22:34, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Articles on CIA activities abroad throughout Wikipedia have been hijacked by editors using neo-Nazi blogs like CounterPunch and ZNet to promote the most outlandish conspiracy theories. On the "CIA activities in Iran" page, I have twice had to remove allegations that the CIA overthrew the Shah and installed Khomeini, but the editors refuse to accept the removal, calling their edits "reliably sourced info." This page should be monitored to prevent the fantasies from again being restored. There are probably legions of these sorts of conspiracy theories in the really obscure pages; the CIA was also blamed for the 1968 coup in Iraq--a coup it vociferously opposed and spent years trying to rollback under Nixon and Ford. (The article now acknowledges: "David Wise, a Washington-based author who has written extensively about Cold War espionage, has disputed the notion that the CIA supported the 1968 coup, as has Middle East analyst James Phillips. According to a 2003 report by Common Dreams "many experts, including foreign affairs scholars, say there is little to suggest U.S. involvement in Iraq in the 1960s," although it is widely acknowledged that the CIA worked to destabilize the Qassem regime in the early part of the decade. Robert Dreyfuss, in his book Devil's Game, maintains that the Johnson administration actually opposed the 1968 coup and used the Shah's Iran as a counterpoint to the Ba'athist regime it established. A 2006 study concluded that the CIA's alleged role in the coup "cannot be considered historical" in the absence of more compelling evidence.") On the Richard Helms page, innuendo to the effect that the CIA killed President Kennedy--which was left in place for months if not years--was removed today. TheTimesAreAChanging ( talk) 00:55, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
Mr. Wales,
You had requested diffs to get to the bottom of this. The arbitrators who filed and actively lobbied for the topic ban never offered any specific diffs that supported their position. No fact was ever established nor did they support their accusations when challenged. There was no direct communication about the issues during the request. The only way to prove these points is to examine the Topic Ban directly. [13]
Neither link supports these accusations. It is my opinion that the links instead clearly demonstrate my concern with longstanding harassment and also demonstrate harassment of not only myself but of an administrator carrying out an arbitration remedy.
"No crime, no punishment" - "Nullum crimen, nulla poena sine praevia lege poenali". The only conduct issues that have ever been proven were edit warring and mild personalized comments from Jan. 2008 and Sept 2008. The edit warring stopped after the second 3R, which was before the 1st of five attempts at a topic ban. [20]
Mr. Wales there was no misconduct. There was no basis to draw a conclusion of misconduct. There was no specific evidence. There was no response from the accusers during the request. Please comment on these issues and consider a remedy to fix this major wrong done to my reputation. -- scuro ( talk) 15:28, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
A few days after you made a personal appeal banner in which you're asking us to donate a sum of money to Wikimedia, it has since been a subject of various parodies and spoofs. Do you find this insulting, or do you consider it as a form of good-natured mockery towards you? Blake Gripling ( talk) 10:07, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
Go back to Encyclopedia Dramatica and leave Mr. Wales alone. He's busy raising funds for a good cause. They're busy raising funds for a bad cause. Need I elaborate? --harrybagatestes@gmail.com (IP address useless, I live in Torpark.) Now quit your crying and go back to work. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.15.255.234 ( talk) 21:14, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
First, my apologies to the individual whose user talk page this is for my posting comments which may be better placed elsewhere. If anyone thinks these matters would be better discussed on a separate page, please feel free to tell me or even move the comments directly to the better choice of pages.
I know that there have been previous attempts to have somewhat reliable "opinion" pages on major issues, which have, basically, failed. It seems to me at least in part that the failure may have been based on the pages being structured to basically advance what might be a single opinion on an issue, rather than in a point/counterpoint format, or maybe in a format which would allow for multiple "position of (X)" sections. However, I do think that there might well be a use for such content, particularly regarding the upcoming US presidential election in two years. Yes, it is two years away, I know that. None of the candidates have (so far as I know anyway) even announced yet. Personally, I think that makes this the best possible time to establish ground rules for such material, if it were to be developed, so that we don't have any more individuals clearly advocating for a particular candidate or position than possible.
Maybe, and this is obviously just a maybe, somewhere, maybe in Wikibooks, we could create a location for multiple pages discussing the relevant issues, perhaps one page per issue, with separate sections on the stated or implicit positions of candidates or parties and for any "outside" entities which have addressed the issue. Exactly where to place material regarding, for instance, the clearly conservative Cato Institute might be somewhat difficult to decide, but I think that it could reasonably be done. And, perhaps, in a worst-case scenario, the pages might be placed under full protection rather early on, with changes only made after consensus on the talk page by people from multiple positions. That would entail having individuals state somewhere their own opinions, and having those who make the changes be comparatively neutral, and both of those might be difficult to achieve, but I think it could, maybe, be done.
In any event, if it is possible, I think having some sort of informative guide of as neutral a kind as possible would definitely be both useful for anyone considering a vote in that election, and probably be a major feather in the Foundation's cap if it could be done. If it succeeds in the US, where I think there are probably enough interested parties to make it workable, it might be adapted to work in other countries as well. Maybe. Anyway, just throwing the idea out there, and, again, my apologies to Jimbo if these comments would be better made elsewhere. John Carter ( talk) 18:34, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
This is Brian G. Crawford. I have part or much of what you requested from me. Email me via facebook to get it. I think I ran afoul of an impostor. 184.15.255.234 ( talk) 21:04, 28 November 2010 (UTC) (I'm on Tor, sorry)
Shouldn't Wikipedia have a special logo for its tenth anniversary by putting a cake with 10 candles on top of the Wikipedia logo? What do you guys think? WAYNE OLAJUWON 22:19, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
tenwiki:Design. / ƒETCH COMMS / 00:23, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
I already made a thread at ANI [21] about this, so I do not want to forum shop (and do not expect an answer specific to the question at ANI) but I think this is an important core issue. Basically, is hate speech / inciting to violence allowed in Wikipedia when it is sourced? Phoenix of9 03:47, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
Eh! I don't believe in same-sex marriage or just same-sex. IMHO, sex should be different each time. GoodDay ( talk) 03:01, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
The ANI thread was closed. [22] It is not unreasonable to cite source material or to discuss the beliefs that people have; but I would be concerned that this seems like an issue best covered in an article about some anti-gay perspective and only covered in " WP:summary style" at the same-sex marriage article, which might mean not placing WP:Undue weight on any one quote. One can vigorously contest the idea that because an anti-gay statute is in the Old Testament, and Christianity is based on the Old Testament, hence Christianity condemns it. After all, the Old Testament similarly condemns wearing a garment made out of two different kinds of thread. Its rules are reported to be designed to make Abraham's seed as numerous as the dust of the earth, as opposed to, say, establishing peace on earth and good will toward men. Christianity includes an injunction to "keep the commandments", but the definition of the latter may be open to debate; in any case they don't include the great bulk of Israelite dietary laws. And then, you might cover Jewish, Muslim, and other non-Christian perspectives. Wnt ( talk) 23:52, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
It is quite evident that when the Western liberalism of most Wikipedians comes into conflict with the stated project aim of neutrality, that neutrality loses. I stay well away from all such articles because there's not a hope in hell of neutralising the obvious agendas.-- Scott Mac 00:00, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
Using a primary source (such as the Bible) is usually a violation of the No Original Research policy. For example, should someone be allowed (on Wikipedia) to argue that the God of the Old Testament is actually the Devil based on the Bible's claim that God mass-murdered all humans and all other species other than the specific entities that were on Noah's Ark? - WAS 4.250 ( talk) 00:04, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
Thought you might be interested in this NY Times article on the website today [23], quoting the Turkish prime minister as saying the following: “First, let’s wait until Wikileaks spill all the beans, and then we would check how serious or unserious they are,” Mr. Erdogan said. “Because the seriousness of Wikipedia is doubtful." The Times should have pointed out that there is no connection between Wikipedia and Wikileaks. ScottyBerg ( talk) 17:23, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
Something occurred to me. Unlike the UK where images of most villages can be uploaded from http://www.geograph.org.uk/ there is a considerable problem for many places in the US and Canada obtaining a plentiful supply of decent freely useable photographs for small towns, and even larger ones, one example I can think of is Calabasas, California.... I was wondering Jimmy if your foundation would endorse the idea of running a US version of geograph to photograph every grid square or whatever you use for the United States. Sure it would be an ambitious project, but not as ambitious as wikipedia... This would not only solve our problem of having a poor supply of photographs for many places in the United States but it would build up a highly valuable bank of images over time under a Creative Commons/GFDL license which I am certain many people would find very valuable. I wonder how many times somebody has looked for a freely useable image of a small US town or unincorporated place and found no images on it. Given that geograph is clearly a massive success and has suppled the majority of British villages with images, I wonder if it would be too much to ask if the foundation could host a US version of such a project to attract people into a project which would photograph the United States in such detail? I know that the United States is considerably larger than the UK but I don't see why such a project couldn't be a success for most places with a high internet population. If I can get some sort of backing I'll make a formal proposal on this.♦ Dr. Blofeld 18:21, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
Were you just preparing to start a new article? -- œ ™ 09:40, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
Recently I searched google using the term, "theory of adhd". The first link was to the wiki article entitled, social construct theory of ADHD. The gist of this theory is that the disorder has been socially constructed and "could not exist had we not built it". Basically this theory questions the validity of the disorder and is often used to claim that the disorder doesn't exist. ADHD is considered a medical condition and accepted as such by the western world. SCTA would be considered a fringe viewpoint or possibly a minor viewpoint within select populations.
Now I know that google can be manipulated so that search results are skewed and all of this can happen outside of wikipedia. But, is wikipedia also contributing in some small degree in the improper dissemination of information? I could well imagine that this problem could involve many topics.-- scuro ( talk) 13:05, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
The "appeal from Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales" is made in the name of the above company (registered in the UK, number 06741827). Having looked up this company at the Companies House web-check service, I find that, although it is listed as active, there is a current "proposal to strike-off". It was incorporated in Nov 2008, but appears to have never filed any accounts as required by law - these are currently overdue.
This doesn't seem to be a very good incentive for people to donate money? -- MightyWarrior ( talk) 15:00, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
I thought you might be interested in the discussion about if we should be using and linking to these controversial wikileak documents. At the Administrators noticeboard here - Off2riorob ( talk) 16:35, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
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Gwen, I'm asking you this question mainly because of your frequent participation at this article and its talk page. Would you consider material presented from this source acceptable and helpful if used in a proper context? Thanks. Dr. Dan ( talk) 01:49, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
I lost you, but I’m confused myself. It appears as though the person with the least information available is most influential on the article. The U.S. is big on free press, and it works. My very low budget suburb is in a system which serves 225,000 people with 4 MILLION titles (numbers approximate, thanks Carol). That’s on the next shuttle van. Most of the rest of the assets of a state with 12 million people are a couple of days away by mail. The specialty stuff on AE from Radcliffe took maybe a week. And I am an amateur. Dan, you are over three million people higher in the food chain, you must be “world class”. Kierzek has clearly read and analyzed everything, reviewed most of it, and as far as I can tell, every word he says is accurate and informed. Kershaw, Joachimsthaler, Thomas, Trevor-Roper, Beevor, Shirer, Ryan, Toland, Eberle/Uhl, Lehmann/Carroll, O’Donnell, Victor, Petrova/Watson. (Vinogradov hit a snag, reordered). These are books which I have had in my possession and read parts of since Aug 2010. I can understand if others do not have access to the same resources, but I think that should be addressed. If someone does not have access to two footnotes which are critical in a discussion, that also should be addressed. I think maybe that “using information that they have read and can understand” means that if you only read and have access to the “Sun”, that is all you should use as a source. But I think you should get them right. And I don’t think that you should dispute or ignore works beyond the "Sun", they are outside your understanding. I know that this is P.O.V., and that I am personally involved. But I can not help but believe that this article has problems with it’s process. Wm5200 ( talk) 18:25, 15 September 2010 (UTC) Wm5200 ( talk) 21:58, 1 December 2010 (UTC) |
There is a question regarding the copyright status of National Labratories in the US. Does the WMF have legal counsel which could comment at Template_talk:PD-USGov-DOE#Template:PD-USGov-DOE_Laboratory_image_use? It's probably best not to stagnate this into what happened with US government portraits. Smallman12q ( talk) 21:52, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
Can one be an arb and not a checkuser? Kittybrewster ☎ 11:08, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
I don't know why Jimbo's laughing - he could not even keep the Arbs most private files secret [25]. So, I'm certainly not giving him (or an of his chosen employees) my name to throw about th internet about. Giacomo 14:40, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
With all due respect, Giacomo, we are talking about the internet. This is arguing (election) about the rights of those who decide arguments (arbcom) about arguments (how we present an issue on the encyclopedia). This "controversy" all comes across as a good deal of navalgazing. Magog the Ogre ( talk) 16:01, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
Mr. Wales. Up above I've asked a question regarding the nature & purpose of identification. I believe though you may have missed it as the conversation moved on, however I was hoping you could address it.--
Cube lurker (
talk)
15:57, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
If the requirement (along with being elected) to assume a seat on Arbcom, is to identify yourself to your Arb colleges? Then I don't see where Giacomo has a choice. Unless, after his rejection by the committee, he seeks to get the ID requirement overturned for Arb candidates. GoodDay ( talk) 16:52, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
Wait, can someone please point me to this long standing "policy" that one must identify yourself in order to be on the arbcom? I can't find it anywhere in the arbitration policy page. Tex ( talk) 17:42, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
Emphasis added is my own:
In addition to its role in dispute resolution, the Committee determines which editors have access to CheckUser and Oversight permissions, and considers certain matters where exceptional factors such as privacy preclude a public hearing.
Arbitrators are neither Wikimedia Foundation employees or agents, nor Wikipedia executives. They are volunteer users—usually experienced editors and administrators—whom the community of editors at large elects to resolve the most complex or intractable disputes that may arise within the community, and to oversee the few areas where access to non-public information is a prerequisite.
Functionaries are users who perform specialised roles, and have privileged technical access, on the Wikimedia projects. Examples include users with Oversight or CheckUser access, OTRS volunteers, and current and past members of the Arbitration Committee. Functionary access must be authorised by the Wikimedia Foundation, and requires confirmation of the user's identity to be recorded by the Foundation, to ensure compliance with the access to nonpublic data policy. This is in contrast to users such as Bureaucrats or members of the Bot Approvals Group, which are 'community' positions.
Functionaries whose permissions and responsibilities are confined to the English Wikipedia are under the jurisdiction of the Arbitration Committee. These functionaries include:
- Current members of the Arbitration Committee
- Former members of the Committee, who retain access to the functionaries-l mailing list (and are considered functionaries for that, somewhat recursive, reason)
- Users with CheckUser or Oversight access
Functionaries are held to a higher standard of behavior than normal editors, especially in issues related to their area of responsibility. If a user demonstrates a lack of judgment in an area related to their special access, their status as a functionary may be revoked; whether or not an explicit abuse of their privileged access has occured. As functionaries have a high profile within the project, and are the face of Wikipedia both to its editors and to the wider world, it is damaging to the integrity of the encyclopedia as a whole if these users are repeatedly embroiled in controversy.
A functionary may have their status and technical access removed with broad community consensus, or by a ruling of the Arbitration Committee.
-- Avi ( talk) 17:58, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
It's in italicized bold, the "nonpublic data policy." There is no mention of the bits themselves, it is access to the data that those with the bits supply to ArbCom in the process of ArbCom performing its duty. There is no exemption for volunteering not to have the bits. Members of ArbCom, in the pursuit of their duty, are privy to nonpublic data and fall under the foundation's policy. -- Avi ( talk) 18:10, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
Please see item 1 of wmf:Resolution:Access to nonpublic data -- Avi ( talk) 18:12, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
I'm really not trying to be difficult here, but the foundation's "nonpublic data policy" doesn't say you have to identify to be on the arbitration committee, either. Your link doesn't work, but Kittybrewster linked to it above saying #2 covered it before he changed his response. Now you're saying #1 covers it, but #1 says you can't have access to non-public data unless you identify. Nowhere that I can find does it say that you have to have access to non-public data to be on the arbitration committee. You may be a more effective arb if you do have that access, but it's not required. Tex ( talk) 18:37, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
It is really very simple, if someone is to be granted access to confidential information and thus be in a position to harm others and the foundation by abusing that access, we need to know who they are. User:Fred Bauder Talk 19:25, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
There are two separate links in the chain, it is confusing to combine them. The ANPD Policy categorically requires that users with access to nonpublic data must identify; this covers the CheckUser and Oversight permissions, and mailing lists where such data is routinely presented (arbcom-l and functionaries-en). Enwiki has defined in numerous places, as highlighted by Avi above, that access to these areas is required to be an Arbitrator; by which we conclude that to be an Arb it is necessary to identify. That link in the chain is not unbreakable, but it is currently in place, and to argue that it is not (which requires you to argue that WP:Functionary and WP:Arbitration Committee are not part of the corpus of Wikipedia governance) is basically wikilawyering. A constructive approach to this, if you desire there to be non-identified Arbitrators on the Committee, would be to commence a discussion through the usual channels, and form new policy on the subject, rather than blindly assert that the current consensus on the matter simply doesn't exist. Happy‑ melon 19:37, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
That's an interesting point. Can an arbitrator choose to forgo access to the internal arbitrator forums (the wiki, the mailing lists, etc)? And if he so chooses, would he then be required to identify himself to the Foundation? Raul654 ( talk) 20:24, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
To respond to Raul, in my opinion, an arbitrator without access to the data necessary to make decisions is only slightly more useful than a wikipedia editor without internet access. The purpose of ArbCom is to handle various situations on wikipedia which very often requires access to information for which the foundation requires identification. Technically, I guess an arbitrator can be excluded from having any part in every discussion in which confidential information may be necessary, allowing them to take part in discussions in which NO confidential information may be released. However, this places a burden on the remainder of the committee who may need to discuss confidential information. In my opinion, if someone is interested in that kind of role, they would serve the community much better by volunteering for the Wikipedia:Mediation Committee. -- Avi ( talk) 20:51, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
{{
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around this conversation.)
Jehochman
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21:01, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
Holy smokers, Giacomo has been with Wikipedia since 2004. If he isn't 18 by now, he's been the most precocious minor I've ever come across. GoodDay ( talk) 21:31, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
Really, what does identifying to the Foundation entail? I have been under the impression that it was faxing a copy of a drivers license, passport or other government issued ID. But what's to stop someone sending their mum's, dad's, best friend's or something? Or does it involve more than that? I don't see how though -- the Foundation certainly doesn't have enough employees to send people to editors' houses and demanding proof of ID. Can't Giacomo blank out his name or address or any other personal details he doesn't want the Foundation knowing, as long as his age or DOB is displayed? Matthewedwards : Chat 05:20, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
Hope that helps answer, although it's not one of the 'super-policies' like this one. Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry ( talk) 09:34, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
Imagine if Barack Obama wanted a seat on the Arbcom? The birthers would follow him here & dispute his birth certificate. GoodDay ( talk) 22:23, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
Howdy JW. I wish we could see the voting in progress at those elections, as we can at RfAs. Though I can understand why the progess must be kept hidden until results are finalized, the waiting is torturious. GoodDay ( talk) 13:59, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
Back then, like in January or February 2001, what was Wikipedia like? Just wondering. Perseus, Son of Zeus ( talk) 15:03, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
In theory, old days is inaccurate. Each earthly day, can only get 23.25 hrs old, thus each past day is no older then any other past day. GoodDay ( talk) 16:56, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
Hello, I could not help but notice on Jimmy Wale's wiki page that his DOB is questionable, either August 7 or 8, 1966. I am familair with numerology, and after a quick look at the numbers for both dates, it is clear to me that the 8th is much more likely to be the actual day of birth. The 8th of July that year produces important master numbers (an 11, 22, and 33) in prominent places on the chart that I think are indicative of Wale's success in technology pioneering. Hopefully this helps! Thanks, T —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.224.245.130 ( talk) 01:49, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
Something occurred to me. Unlike the UK where images of most villages can be uploaded from http://www.geograph.org.uk/ there is a considerable problem for many places in the US and Canada obtaining a plentiful supply of decent freely useable photographs for small towns, and even larger ones, one example I can think of is Calabasas, California.... I was wondering Jimmy if your foundation would endorse the idea of running a US version of geograph to photograph every grid square or whatever you use for the United States. Sure it would be an ambitious project, but not as ambitious as wikipedia... This would not only solve our problem of having a poor supply of photographs for many places in the United States but it would build up a highly valuable bank of images over time under a Creative Commons/GFDL license which I am certain many people would find very valuable. I wonder how many times somebody has looked for a freely useable image of a small US town or unincorporated place and found no images on it. Given that geograph is clearly a massive success and has suppled the majority of British villages with images, I wonder if it would be too much to ask if the foundation could host a US version of such a project to attract people into a project which would photograph the United States in such detail? I know that the United States is considerably larger than the UK but I don't see why such a project couldn't be a success for most places with a high internet population. If I can get some sort of backing I'll make a formal proposal on this.♦ Dr. Blofeld 18:21, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
Thanks. How do we go about proposing this then as its clear this is the wrong place for talking about it.... I've contacted Sue Gardner, who hopefully sees the potential in it.. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 22:02, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
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On 01:27, 5 August 2010 I posted a section on "Talk: Death of Adolf Hitler" titled “Random Questions” which started “I am not a scholar, I read Wiki but would not think of editing it. But I was disappointed in this article, and many points in the discussion, so I am asking some questions. Perhaps someone else will read and address them.” The section went on with several rethoritical questions, and ended with “As to sources, the last books I have read are The Murder of Adolph Hitler by Hugh Thomas (sort of shaky) and The Last Days of Hitler by Anton Joachimsthaler (English translation, I buy much of this).” Gwen Gale was apparently assigned me as an administrator, because at 09:47, 5 August 2010 (UTC) she replied with: ”As the article lead says,...This said, this talk page isn't a forum for talking about personal views or questions on a topic, it's meant for talking about sources and how to echo them in the text. I say this because the article seems to already cover, with thorough citations, most if not all of what you've brought up...dodgy. Gwen Gale (talk)” By this reply it appears that Gwen Gale is NOT FAMILIAR with the work of Joachimsthaler, who I have just referenced, and thinks that I am asking a personal question, not a rhetorical one. At that time I apologized, tried to explain myself, and restate my questions. At 17:48, 6 August 2010 (UTC) I posted” If I had read Kershaw's Nemesis Chapter 17 note 156 and Epilogue note 1 I wouldn't have wasted your time. You can't get much clearer than that. Should be required reading. Perhaps someone else should read them, and possibly edit the article. Thank you for your time.99.41.251.5 (talk)” At 16:36, 7 August 2010 (UTC) I posted “I would like to direct people to the work of Ian Kershaw Hitler, 1939-1945: Nemesis ISBN 0393322521. Chapter 17 and the epilogue relate to this article. Please pay attention to his notes and sources. Be warned, his book Hitler: a Biography is a kind of digest which does not include these resources....The source Joachimsthaler is basically an English translation of a German's analysis of 1950's post-Soviet interviews of bunker survivors. The original transcripts must be available somewhere. There are many other bunker interviews, some with questionable intent, and not all agree. Wm5200 (talk)“ Since those posts I have posted a huge amount on the talk page, virtually all of which Gwen Gale has disputed. Much of the material I have posted I have later deleted, often because I felt that the endless conflict between Gwen Gale and myself is counterproductive to the article. Anyone who is Wiki can probably bring back any of those posts. Was I sometimes rude and argumentative? Absolutely. Was I making legitimate points which related to the article? I thought so. Did I receive effective support and encouragement by my administrator? I think not, but you judge. My main point was that Joachimsthaler had reviewed the information, and had made a solid case for positions which Kershaw backed. I repeatedly begged anyone, especially Gwen Gale, to read Joachimsthaler and Kershaw, specifically, two footnotes, I even told the pages of the footnotes. Gwen Gale clearly had not read either source. 18:25, 15 September 2010 (UTC) I posted, under the heading “Question for Gwen Gale” , the following: ”I lost you, but I’m confused myself. It appears as though the person with the least information available is most influential on the article. The U.S. is big on free press, and it works. My very low budget suburb is in a system which serves 225,000 people with 4 MILLION titles (numbers approximate, thanks Carol). That’s on the next shuttle van. Most of the rest of the assets of a state with 12 million people are a couple of days away by mail. The specialty stuff on AE from Radcliffe took maybe a week. And I am an amateur. Dan, you are over three million people higher in the food chain, you must be “world class”. Kierzek has clearly read and analyzed everything, reviewed most of it, and as far as I can tell, every word he says is accurate and informed. Kershaw, Joachimsthaler, Thomas, Trevor-Roper, Beevor, Shirer, Ryan, Toland, Eberle/Uhl, Lehmann/Carroll, O’Donnell, Victor, Petrova/Watson. (Vinogradov hit a snag, reordered). These are books which I have had in my possession and read parts of since Aug 2010. I can understand if others do not have access to the same resources, but I think that should be addressed. If someone does not have access to two footnotes which are critical in a discussion, that also should be addressed...I know that this is P.O.V., and that I am personally involved. But I can not help but believe that this article has problems with it’s process.Wm5200 (talk)'" On 22:02, 11 November 2010 (UTC) Gwen Gale posted “For starters, the Russian autopsy bore overwhelming evidence he not only shot himself, but bit down on a cyanide capsule. Gwen Gale (talk)”. By this post it is clear to anyone familiar with either Joachimsthaler or Kershaw that Gwen Gale is still not familiar with either work. At 02:06, 12 November 2010 (UTC) I posted, under the title “Gwen Gale’s sources”, the following: “I think the rest of us in this discussion would benefit from knowing what Gwen Gale is using as sources, which sources that are on the article and the rest of us are familiar with is she NOT familiar with, which sources she has access to, and when she last familiarized herself with the ones which she is currently using. It appears that we are talking about a person who is "informationally challenged" relative the others in this discussion. Perhaps some arrangement might be made so she has a level of knowledge that could make her be an asset. I have both Kershaw Nemisis and Fest Hitler which I will donate, if it will bring her up to speed so this article is not impeded any more.(User:Wm5200)” At 04:59, 12 November 2010 Kierzek deleted my post “per Wiki talk page guidelines”. Okay, how do I address this continued refusal to read the source material? I have offered to mail Kershaw half way around the world so that Gwen Gale can read two crummy footnotes. But my offer is not only not taken up, but is apparently not in good faith, and even “snarky”. What can I do to get my administrator to read the source material? I would like to bring up two Wiki terms which I do not understand. It appears that Gwen Gale and I have a different “P.O.V.” about the usage of these terms. Assume Good Faith. I first thought that Gwen Gale would be a good administrator, after what I have been through, would YOU assume she is acting in good faith? Original Research. I have never been to Berlin, read any original documents, or talked to any eyewitness. The ONLY information I have about the subject is what I have read in published works. How is it that Gwen Gale finds so much of my work “O.R.”? Am I the only person who has had problems with Gwen Gale? Not if you read her contribs, and certainly not if you Google her name. Wm5200 ( talk) 22:00, 1 December 2010 (UTC) |
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1. Gwen Gale has dominated the article “Death of Adolf Hitler” for years. 2. Gwen Gale is not informed about the “Death of Adolf Hitler”. She refuses to acknowledge the work of Sir Ian Kershaw, about who Wiki itself (no books needed) says “He is regarded by many as one of the world's leading experts on Adolf Hitler and Nazi Germany and is particularly noted for his monumental biography of Hitler, which has been called "soberly objective." “. She continues to use Bezymenski, a 1968 admitted fraud, as a source over numerous other authors. 3. Any time anyone will keep Gwen Gale away from “Death of Adolf Hitler”, serious scholars will fix it and get stars or whatever, Wiki will be accurate, and proud. 4. Any time anyone will keep Gwen Gale away from “Death of Adolf Hitler”, I and all my posts become moot. All I have ever wanted was to get the “popular press” out of what I consider a serious subject. "Not one of your own friends. Better block me instead." Wm5200 ( talk) 23:08, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
When has this ever been about me? “I am not Wiki.” First sentence I ever posted. Do you flatter yourself by thinking I want to be? For me the “mission” has always been “the article”! When I got here the article belonged in one of Rupert Murdoch’s rags. I had read Joachimsthaler, who sounded rational, and thought he could be of some use in the article. That’s it. My whole goal in Wiki. Since being re-buffed by “my admin” (I don’t care about the assignments), I have read virtually everything about Hitler’s Death, becoming a world expert. About someone who I find distasteful, and doesn’t really interest me. And apparently to no avail. I can not get Gwen Gale to read two footnotes. Or get out of the way. That’s all I ask. Apparently I am the only person who thinks that possibly Gwen Gale might recluse herself from this one article, for the good of Wiki. It appears that the quality of the article is less important than the ego of one admin. I have said before, I don’t understand, or much care, for Wiki politics. Is this just a case of “old boy network”, where no one wants to offend a “friend”, or is there an actual “Gwen Gale maffia” who scares the rest of you? I’m still waiting for any kind of informed answer. Or are you just waiting for 24 hours to come, and archive me, out of sight, out of mind? And many of you miss the bitter irony of my now standard closing. "Not one of your own friends. Better block me instead." Wm5200 ( talk) 13:28, 1 December 2010 (UTC) Wm5200 ( talk) 22:04, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
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Re: [28], see Sheila Hollins, Baroness Hollins. Just a stub so far. Fences& Windows 22:08, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
Your founder message should have served its purpose by now. It's getting to be an insufferable nuisance. Time you desisted?-- 117.204.89.168 ( talk) 02:08, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
I have been trying to make some constructive changes and have run into the same problem time and again. I am looking at if what is trying to be included should be there and the counter I run into all the time is "It is well sourced." I am arguing the ethics of including material or the weight given to material, but the editors seem bent on only arguing over how well something is sourced. Being well sourced is a requirement, but it is not the only requirement. Yet it is the only point that holds any merit. If anyone has something that is well sourced and wish to include it they generally get their way. There must be some way to discuss the writing instead of the sourcing for articles. 67.176.220.219 ( talk) 10:38, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
Hello, i have problem with a uk sister user ( Mglovesfun) who remove my adds in wiktionary, like ipa prononciation and related term, can you talk with him please ? What's is problem ? Nemzag ( talk) 15:36, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
Scieberking ( talk) 05:59, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
This book has almost everything known about astronomy. Seriously, it is 1.5ft x 1ft x 2in.! I need to know where to start. Which astronomy article is most in need? Preferably ones concerning planets, moons, asteroids, comets, dwarf planets and such, because there is a lot more on them in the book. I might even take multiple months to transfer everything. I cant find much on a list or something, and since your really good at this stuff (you created wikipedia after all)... HELP!
Before I forget, How do I transfer photos? I had a photo I was gonna transfer, then I couldn't make it work, and now I lost it. But there is huge photos in the book, I'm positive I have access to a scanner, and if i don't know how to upload then I can't upload the pictures.
Mocha2007 (
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18:33, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
Is the WMF applying repetition variation to their fundraiser banners in order to make them more effective? Smallman12q ( talk) 23:19, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
Im guessing you were the first user on Wikipedia. What was the first skin used on Wikipedia??? A Word Of Advice From A Beast: Don't Be Silly, Wrap Your Willy! 00:45, 4 December 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Beastly21 ( talk • contribs)
Please would you take a moment to read Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)#When_we_see_cyberbullying... contributing if you wish. Fiddle Faddle ( talk) 12:48, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
I'm interested in a particular research question and I'm posting here in the hopes that someone can point me in the direction of previous work on the question.
I'm interested in thinking about how to assign "credit" or "blame" for what is in particular Wikipedia pages, with a view towards matching up the resulting data with data on pageviews, to get a fresh perspective on "who wrote what the public is reading on Wikipedia"? I have no particular objective in finding that out, nor do I think it is an accurate way of thinking about who is valuable in the community: I'm just thinking about whether it is easy to determine.
I assume something like Wikipedia:WikiBlame is relevant. But I wonder what work has been done in this area that I should know about.-- Jimbo Wales ( talk) 15:28, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
In case you want to see it, we are now working on designing your card; it isn't perfect yet, butI thought you might like to have the link so that you can follow its progress. You can see it here. I hope you like it! ~~ Hi878 (Come shout at me!) 03:32, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
Not sure how often this happens, but I'm happy to report that I got the project some good press in the Albany, New York area. [29] upstate NYer 06:41, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
The rules of this election are clear. Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2010/Candidates. One of the rules, not written by me, says candidates must "be willing and able to identify to the Wikimedia Foundation before taking their seat." I am not empowered to make appointments in explicit contravention of policy. Therefore, I will appoint candidates to ArbCom who are eligible for appointment only upon their identification to the Foundation. Any future discussion about this should be focused on whether that policy should change, not on what I should do, because I've already said what I am going to do - I will follow policy.-- Jimbo Wales ( talk) 12:47, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
←(ec) I personally find it somewhat shocking that the identifying information is discarded. That strikes me as a very shaky way of doing things. Looie496 ( talk) 21:24, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
Jehochman, even in the case where the crime was a cyber crime, so that there is no connection between the perp and the crime other than the IP, how would that conceivable be connected to wikipedia? The only thing I can conceive of being possible would be if somehow, someone, whilst logged in to wikipedia, performed a crime using the wikipedia account, AND that person is a functionary and is ostensibly ID'd to the foundation. That is so remote that I think it is overkill to consider it, but I am not an expert on cybercrime, FWIW. -- Avi ( talk) 02:23, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
The far more likely situation is of a functionary acting poorly (selling private information, etc), and/or acting illegally and the foundation having no way of holding them accountable. A confirmed identity is a small step to ensure a small degree of accountability. 75.23.47.60 ( talk) 03:09, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
Jimbo, would it be possible for you to explain specifically how identification is verified as far as ARBCOM goes? I think that would be very helpful.
The Eskimo (
talk) 05:17, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
:Because it obviously has to do with legal problems. I know in some instances (regarding photos, usually), an editor submits a photo with a sign saying "I am so-and-so." So I wonder if, in the case of ARBCOM, it is something similar, or if a credit card authorization is required, or if it is a 1-800 # voice prompt, or a personal visit by Wiki-legal, or something else.
The Eskimo (
talk)
05:27, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
I think what I can say is that I agree very much with Jayen466 and Slim Virgin in that identification for the purposes of ArbCom should be strengthened to be more meaningful. It is too early right now, but I think we should be moving in the direction of understanding that as the highest community dispute resolution group on English Wikipedia, there is a serious responsibility to the public, and that real names are a critical means to accountability and transparency. Keep in mind that English Wikipedia alone has more traffic than many of the major newspapers in the world combined. There are some very valid reasons why some people prefer to keep their real names quiet, and I respect that very much. But there are no valid reasons to keep real names from me, fellow ArbCom members, and the Wikimedia Foundation.
For this election, I am not going to invent novel policy. I try to keep my role at the moment of appointments as minimalist as I can, consistent with my real responsibilities to the project. Therefore, I will follow the policies set down at the outset of this election. And for next years election, I think people should anticipate that I will be much more likely to strengthen these requirements, as usual upon the conclusion of a thoughtful community discussion and a period of reflection away from the issues of the current election.-- Jimbo Wales ( talk) 13:41, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
Speaking from experience, I sent a scanned drivers license and business card to Cary, encrypted to both his and my PGP key. This allowed Cary to be certain that the information sent came from the person who controls the this account as the e-mail address behind it. By sending the business card, I offered the WMF the ability to call me and verify any information if they wanted. Lastly, given the only thing sent was an encrypted e-mail and separately encrypted file, if Cary deleted the decrypted version, my information is safe but accessible at any time. I'd welcome having someone, or maybe two people, in the office responsible for this (Jimbo and Phillipe; Jimbo and Jay Walsh, etc.), responsible for receipt, encryption, and safety of the information, and having the "keys" to decrypt the ID if necessary. -- Avi ( talk) 17:22, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
In little over a month, Wikipedia will complete 10 years of existence, since January 2001. I want to congratulate you and thank you for founding Wikipedia. Another thing: I read rumors saying that Wikipedia will become a paid service. Is this true? I hope he responds. Happy Holidays! - Eduardo Sellan III ( talk) 19:26, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
Hello. Will you celebrate (personally)? 109.111.31.95 ( talk) 11:49, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
Hi Jimmy,
Why you, in the deletion of a sexy contents on commons (excellent idea, compliments) you have deleted the images if not you are a adimn? Thanks! (Sorry, it's a my curiosity :) )
« CA » (
talk)
16:48, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
Postum Scriptum: reply on my talk page, please.
sorry but i can't work out how to ask someone else! I have a mad family history. you have a page on a weymarn who was the first german female general but she is part of a much bigger family with a huge history - friends with the csar, the csarina, tortured, smuggled out of russia etc. had own estate, employed several 100 people,several breweries etc. want to start an entry please. How do i go about that.....seems too complicated. If you search google you can find my brothers (even on google images) and multiple other family members. It's an interesting family full of factual historical characters..... all seems too complicataed.
Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.172.108.125 ( talk) 00:38, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
Mr Wales, do you consider yourself left wing? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.79.249.15 ( talk) 11:28, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
Dear Mr Wales I have been Wikipedia contributer since 2005 and in that time have started 140 original articles and modified about 700, all on subjects that I have knowledge on. I am writing to you as I believe that there has developed considerable waste in both computing effort and consequently money in the uncontrolled editing. I believe that the use of info-boxes do not add to the information of an article, and the majority have many items blank. What is there is duplecated from the text to be read. This must be quite a drag on resources when considering the whole encyclopedia. Every day I see changes that do not make any improvement to the use of the encyclopedia. Adding links to the country entry after already linking to the town entry; Changes in date format (29th May to 29 May); Changes in word order: changes of "&" to "and"; changes from UK English to US English (& vice verse); changes in category and spliting of categories. the use of bots and AWBs which do not alter the sense of the text. Even single spelling mistakes could be left unchanged (to be changed at a later major edit), where the meaning is obvious. I have long been of the opinion that editing should only be allowed by registered contributors, it is easy to register and has no cost. This would also reduce vandelism. I also believe that one's pesonal page should give an indication of one's background. I do not believe that changes should be made by people with no knowledge of the subject on purely what they have obtained from the internet. Without a little understanding of the subject, no judgement can be made on authenticy. When I read of a contributor has made tens of thousands of edits, it immediately makes me discount the accruacy of his work. This must be change for the sake of change and that the editor treats Wiki as a kind of game. One other point is that of copyright of photographs. The classification for copyright has changed at least five times. Many photographs wheremuch effort was made to obtain the owner's permission to use on Wiki, have been deleted because they did not conform to a later classification. Surely there is no hazard if permission is granted. Could not such photos be protected by grandfathering?
Don Joseph
DonJay ( talk) 15:08, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Hello Jimbo Wales,
could you please take these words out of the appeal? As well in the other languages, because this is simply wrong. You cannot use it in any way you want but in order with the granted licenses. Regards Catfisheye 15:37, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
In Italian: Il contenuto di Wikipedia può essere utilizzato liberamente da chiunque per qualunque scopo. The content of Wikipedia can be used freely by everyone in every way. Maybe liberamente has also the meaning "freely but in order with the terms of use", but it seems quite unlikely to me. -- Catfisheye ( talk) 17:39, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
Same thing in Spanish: Cualquiera puede usar libremente el contenido de Wikipedia para cualquier propósito. and French: Le contenu de Wikipédia est libre d'être utilisé par tout le monde, pour tout usage. and Portuguese: Todo o conteúdo da Wikipédia é livre para uso por qualquer pessoa e para qualquer finalidade. Dutch: De inhoud van Wikipedia is vrijelijk te gebruiken door iedereen en voor ieder doeleinde. I guess there is no letter in Latin, so here my knowledge of languages does stop. -- Catfisheye ( talk) 17:46, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
And because this is your talkpage and your words and the translation of your words: Jimbo Wales what are you going to do? -- Catfisheye ( talk) 18:40, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
If I may butt in, I may be able to help clarify something about the definitions here. As written in English, the sentence implies knowledge, which is a synonym for information. If we replaced the word information with knowledge it would not change the meaning. However, what Cyclopia is describing seems to be more related to syntax, (as it applies to linguistics), and syntax would not be a suitable synonym in that sentence. It's not cherry-picking. In a language as complex as English, context is everything. Hope that helps. Zaereth ( talk) 21:38, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
Hello Jimbo Wales. Thank you for ignoring my questions, -- Catfisheye ( talk) 13:30, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
Hi Jimbo:
Presently I am in the dock facing a site ban. This action can be found here. The spark igniting this case stemmed from a minor dispute, suddenly escalated by an administrator to become a Request for amendment of a prior case. IMO, no attention has been paid to due diligence in examining this issue.
I'd like some advice as to whether it is legitimate to piggyback what is not an amendment at all, but a brand-new sanction (a site ban), upon an old case. That old case presently calls for a topic ban on physics related matters. An earlier sanction from this case that put me on probation to observe WP etiquette has expired.
I think this very serious sanction that is not based upon the previous case should be required to be filed as a full case, and not piggybacked upon this old unrelated matter. That would allow some discovery of facts in this matter to take place, which has not been done so far.
What is your opinion? What can I do to obtain a full hearing on this matter? Brews ohare ( talk) 19:32, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
Poking into this just briefly, to me it looks like all sides are being dysfunctional here. It was doubtless unwise for Brews ohare to butt into Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Physics, where he had formerly argued the thing with the speed of light definition that got him banned. [2] Even so, the stuff he was saying there looks to be in good faith, [3] and Headbomb later said he gave him a "free pass" on it. [4] Then EdJohnston said that "anything in the natural sciences. In my mind, that includes mathematics.", a very debatable point. He also said "We have agreed to your stipulation that you may be blocked up to one week each time we decide that the new ban is violated." [5]
Now the way I see it, good arbitrators and administrators should mean what they say and say what they mean. If they want to ban someone from editing about "natural sciences", they should either explain in detail what that means to them ahead of time, or be willing to be contradicted when someone cites a contrary source, as Brews did. If they say someone can be blocked for a week, it shouldn't mean he'll be blocked for a year. If you're giving someone a free pass, you should forget about it and not hold it against him later - if you intend to hold it against him, that's not a free pass but a warning and should be clearly given as such at the time. I know that Brews o'hare can be very vocal in his self-defense, but even if that annoys someone that is not an argument. This shouldn't be about the editor but about maintaining the credibility of the arbitration process.
I would also question whether it is useful to find an edit engaged in a land war about one single solitary fact, and turn that into a broad, vague topic ban that only gets broader each time it comes into question. ArbCom had the opportunity to take a good science editor and redirect his energies into something productive, but instead they more or less forced him to become a permanent thorn in their own side. If this is how topic bans are going to be enforced, maybe you should just give up on them and block editors for some months instead. Of course, that's now what they've done, but they could have gotten here by a much shorter path, and tried a shorter ban.
Another worse than useless idea is Count Iblis saying "I have therefore decided that I will no longer recognize the validity of the blocks/topic bans on people like Rbj, William Connolley, Brews Ohare, Likebox, Polargeo, etc. etc. etc. etc. I encourage all of them to ignore any bans/blocks as that only poses a problem for the corrupted processes that lead to these people being bocked, which can only be a good thing." [6] This kind of provocateurism is highly counterproductive in real-life protest marches and it's not helping here either. Wnt ( talk) 04:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
"This kind of provocateurism is highly counterproductive in real-life protest marches and it's not helping here either." This has nothing to do with the case under discussion here in particular, it is just a conclusion I reached based on many incidents, most of them have nothing to do with Brews. The system has to be changed and that won't happen via thoughtful discussions only, because of entrenched positions. The reality already is that the way the system works is by reacting to incidents, and that reaction is not always a change for the better. Just consider this amendment on the CC case. That amendment was a reaction to an incident, which already is a negative indicator. Then, I attempt to pragmatically discuss a relevant issue here (had this been addressed when it was raised much earlier, the whole problem that eventually led to the amendment wouldn't have been necessary in the first place). But that discussion goes nowhere, it is even construed by an ArbCom member to be a content discussion of an CC article that has no place there :) .
Now, for the time being, we have to deal with the system as it exists. My input in the recent dispute regarding Brews has been given here and here and on the ArbCom pages where Brews was discussed. Count Iblis ( talk) 18:04, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
Wikipedia:AN#Wikipedia Experts. A simple opinion would be nice, but just an FYI if you didn't see it. / ƒETCH COMMS / 16:02, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
What does actually Wikipedia like to be? A political movement or an encyclopedia sticking to the facts? I don't understand why wikipedia refuses to use the name Myanmar. About common name: If the common name for USA were "United S**t from the A**" (sorry for these drastic words and comparison), should then wikipedia use that name? -- 112.205.7.91 ( talk) 18:50, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
Anyone check out Special:Contributions/112.205.7.91? Looks like we have a POV-pusher here who also engages in [ http://en.wikipedia.org/? title=United_Nations_Headquarters&diff=prev&oldid=397778829 vandalism]. Strange Passerby ( talk • contribs) 01:29, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
Hi Jimmy. I've seen your banners at the top of articles several times now, so I don't think seeing them again is going to affect whether I donate again or not. Is there anyway for me to customise the view so that I don't have to see them again? Thanks, 93.97.59.17 ( talk) 23:25, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
I can only speak for myself, but I think the appeal would have more resonance if it wasn't so closely associated with Jimbo. I'd be happy to donate to the project, but those ads give me the feeling that I'd be donating to Jimbo, which is a distinctly unappealing thought. Everyking ( talk) 06:00, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
Philippe's response was not that Jimmy's face in particular caused people to donate, but rather that a face, versus a text-only banner appealed to people. I can see that sort-of visual appeal working, but I have to agree that testing with only Jimmy's face, versus the faces of a dozen or a hundred randomly selected Wikipedians would have been a much better test. It shouldn't be that complex to create a rotating Wikipedian-face banner. Wjhonson ( talk) 21:26, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
Its very big, trying to get stuff sorted about copyright stuff.
so enjoy before its deleted :)
Sophie ( Talk) 18:37, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
Hey I wanted to thank you for having a open door policy with the editors here. While the answer isn't always what a person wants it is at the very least refreshing to see that you are a active member of and not above the wiki community. This is a awesome site and concept even with all the drama. Hell In A Bucket ( talk) 16:08, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
Hi, just a quick note to say that Jimbo's personal appeal banners seem to be causing a bit of a problem today, for me, at least. The banners keep reappearing even if one clicks to clear them. I gather from this discussion that I'm not the only one affected by this, and I have updated my Adblock filter accordingly. (I edit via Firefox for Mac, if that's of any significance) best, Shawn in Montreal ( talk) 20:58, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
Please see the new page
Wikipedia:Database reports/Talk pages by size (to be updated weekly). This talk page ranks sixth, with 19085 kilobytes.
Perhaps this will motivate greater efficiency in the use of kilobytes.
—
Wavelength (
talk)
21:43, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
Might be interesting for you.-- Müdigkeit ( talk) 06:22, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
Jimbo,
It's bugged me for quite a while that we have subject specific notability guidelines like WP:PROF and WP:ATH that are being used to override WP:V in deletion debates. These guidelines allow articles sourced entirely from self published works in violation of WP:SELFPUB and our basic principles of verifiability. I brought this up at the last BLP RFC and it attracted significant agreement, but as the RFC closer rightly noted, this practice is so ingrained in the community, that it's almost impossible to declare consensus on the matter.
Over and over, I see the number of times that a professor's work has been cited ( h-index) being used as a criteria for keeping or deleting an article, regardless of the existence of independent biographical coverage. We then base the article entirely on their self-published biography, or even worse, whatever the person wrote about themselves in Wikipedia, since many of these are autobiographies. This recent AfD is a prime example of WP:PROF overriding the requirement for secondary sources.
The fundamental problem here is that the subject specific notability guidelines are taken to override the general notability guideline, which requires actual third party coverage, a prerequisite for satisfying WP:V. Do you have any ideas about how to address this? Do you think there's any way that you or the foundation can provide further leadership on this matter? Gigs ( talk) 04:22, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
As if on cue, an RfC has opened that, in my opinion, is a symptom of WP:ATHLETE having a bar that is far too low and that doesn't require secondary source coverage. The RfC asks if we should have special notability standards for child athletes. Gigs ( talk) 02:19, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
As an indirect result of editing Bryan Fischer I today looked at Brian Fisher. (The resemblance between the two is limited to their names.) I was surprised to read there that When not working in the field, Dr. Fisher lives with the banana slugs in a treehouse in Marin County. Carefully marked up, but slightly unidiomatic, highly implausible, and of course completely unsourced.
The not-marked-up predecessor of this turned out to have been added by a hit-and-run halfwit--what? "NPA"? so block me!--with a throwaway username on 15 May 2009. Some other user solemnly marked it up later.
I'm unrelated to Brian Fisher. I'd never heard of him till today. I'll bet he's heard of Wikipedia though.
This isn't at the Seigenthaler level, of course, but it's embarrassing.
Wikipedia seems to work hard to avoid anything that might deter newcomers from editing. But I think there are way too many newcomers and the people deterred by some hurdles would have a disproportionate number of halfwits. I'm for a slower-growing but better Wikipedia. Tama1988 ( talk) 04:00, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
Thank you all for your thoughtful responses. In my own talk page, AniMate pointed to credible sources for this claim. (It's odd that they're phrased in exactly the same way, with "the banana slugs"--my emphasis--even though it's the first time the slugs are mentioned.) So I've readded the material, but this time slightly rephrased, and with sources.
I now think I was wrong. Certainly I should have Googled before moaning about the matter here.
My confidence newly shattered, I shall now refrain from deleting from William Foley His favorite colour is purple as seen by the numerous shirts he wears in that colour, and enjoys the Reuben sandwich. / Quotes:"We are all male americans" (my latest bizarre discovery). After all, Foley's photo on his own web page shows him in a purple sweater, there's nothing either implausible or embarrassing about an enjoyment of Reuben sandwiches, and for all I know Foley could have used "We are all male Americans" as an example in some linguistics exercise. Proper sourcing would be welcome, though. Tama1988 ( talk) 10:25, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
I think there should be something that automatically puts a message and on a user's talk page that doesn't have and edit AND (not OR or AND/OR) hasn't edited in 2 years, then usurps them. That would make it alot easier for people that want their username changed to not have to go through the usurpation process, because the username they want is already usurped. A Word Of Advice From A Beast: Don't Be Silly, Wrap Your Willy! 00:55, 22 November 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Beastly21 ( talk • contribs)
Dear Jimmy, I am a Wikipedia contributor in the Portuguese language and am requesting your intervention in the project. There exists among us a tremendous amount of intrigue, harassment, personal threats, inadequate block, clash of egos and power abuses. I can not stand such injustice, so many users with destructive behavior, so much political intrigue and partiality in administrators. The new users are intimidated and abandon the project, edit wars proliferate and the bad users trying to silence their opponents with lock requests without foundation. Users with bad behavior are protected by administrators and users who try to expose corruption are blocked. The rule is trying to impose views and threaten to block those who disagree with arbitrariness. I am tired. This project is broken, please dismisses administrators and cancel their arbitrary actions, otherwise the credibility of Wikipedia is extinguished. Thank you.
Guys, my request was removed by a brazilian steward. This is more a way of hiding the truth from the stewards. Please forward this request for intervention as possible, I do not have experience or good English, so my ability to act is limited. Thanks again. Leandro LV ( talk) 02:22, 23 November 2010 (UTC) No, it was moved here.-- Müdigkeit ( talk) 03:11, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
This one has all of your your favourites in one horrendous bundle. Except perhaps a member of the British aristocracy.
Spare a thought for poor Moonriddengirl: User talk:Moonriddengirl#Robert Garside. Xe has paid editors on the one side, and a BLP subject who has been edit warring for almost three years on the other. The paid editors apparently all work for a U.S. publishing company subsidiary and are paid to edit the biographies of their clients. One can deduce that the forty single-purpose accounts to be found here are fellow employees, or perhaps just the one person. They clash because the BLP subject doesn't like the information that is in the Franz Lidz article, apparently added by the paid editors, that is about xem. The BLP subject has, separately, been complaining and edit warring over the article about xem since April 2007. The situation has already descended to legal threats being bandied about, and responded to via edit summaries here, here, and here.
Asking for the British aristocracy to be involved as well would seem greedy at this point.
Uncle G ( talk) 17:43, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
Sorry for "The day The Earth Stood Still" reference but I wanted to grab your attention.
I remember seeing this appeal last year and had a great idea for you. It's a little twist on an established concept and is definitely not advertising but more a community service concept. Hating to just give it away to some ladder climbing robot reader, I didn't follow up. I'd be happy to give this idea to you and Wiki.
If you run with it, I would ask only that you to consider me to play an integral part of promoting this revenue generating idea.
I will present you with my idea, if I see a non robot response.
75.177.110.227 ( talk) 04:20, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
2011 will be here soon.
Do you think it would be a good idea to have a voluntary code of conduct for editors for the new year? Right now, there is a lot of bad behavior in Wikipedia. Sometimes people are just being rude, other times some edits seem like troublemaking.
If there is any interest, I'd be happy to draft it with others. However, I'm not going to waste my time creating a document if there is opposition. பின்லாந்துF ( talk) 20:03, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
Are you going to start charging people to use Wikipedia? I really don't have the money to donate and it seems like Wikipedia is going through very dire times. I hope you don't charge to use it (otherwise, I'll have to use Encarta or pull out my old World Book). Please don't. If you have to do anything, put up ads.
Please! Please don't charge! Waaaaa!!!! I want to cry over this. Don't charge us poor peons. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.178.153.244 ( talk) 16:40, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
I wouldn't mind giving money to Wikipedia, or, say, paying a couple of quid a year to use it. But your ugly mug doesn't turn me on or make me wanna donate you know...
No offence, like. I'm sure women go for the grizzly look. But I don't need it! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.181.253.128 ( talk) 19:31, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
Hi Jimbo
You made the quote above during this interview. Fortunately you're wrong, the alemannic Wikipedia (my home wiki) covers all swiss-german idioms. Unfortunately for us you didn't knew. But surely next time! ;-) -- Umschattiger ( talk) 15:52, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
Who is this "Kartika" person, and why is her "personal appeal" being featured? Kartika, while registered on both sites, has never made an edit (at least under that name) to either the English or Indonesian Wikipedias. [9] [10] Could you please clarify this for the readership? Is she actually a "Wikipedia author" at all? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.227.56.16 ( talk) 18:48, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
This is what I am talking about. 68.227.56.16 ( talk) 18:58, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
This refers to the appeal here [11].
There are initiatives underway regarding presence in India, but I didn't pay attention so someone more knowledgeable will comment on that. However, I will say this about plastic money. Sadly, so many people have plastic money now, that for most fundraising drives, the cost of arranging for members of staff in a particular country to receive, cash, account, account for, legally clear, audit, etc etc., individual cheque/check (spelling varies according to location, so you were not wrong) donations, is more than the amount of money likely to be received. You also have to consider the possibility that the organisation then has to make separate arrangements for whatever restrictions exist on transferring such monies out of the country back to the parent organisation, then they have to somehow make arrangements for explaining all of these various expenses-incurred-in-fundraising in their accounting in the home country of how fundraising expenses were incurred, and they need extra people (or a portion of some people's time, possibly involving legal or accounting expertise) in order to do this. It just all gets too much.
I know little about Wikipedia's costs, but given its popularity and the robust existing software base, it is obvious that server hosting is a much larger proportion of the cost than software development, so outsourcing the entire outfit to India seems unlikely to happen anytime soon. -- Demiurge1000 ( talk) 02:52, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
I wouldn't mind giving money to Wikipedia, or, say, paying a couple of quid a year to use it. But your ugly mug doesn't turn me on or make me wanna donate you know...
No offence, like. I'm sure women go for the grizzly look. But I don't need it! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.181.253.128 ( talk) 19:31, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
Jim, I'm certain you hear this on a regularly; you are a handsome man with expressive eyes. Very striking. Secondly, I will be in St. Pete. mid. to late Jan. 2011 looking for work and visiting friends. If you know anyone looking for assistant for office or/and home front I've worn many hats in my day and enjoy helping others. Any questions, any ideas for work would be appreciated. thank you, Kate Orcaskayaker (talk) Orcaskayaker ( talk) 07:34, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
Holiday Card from Mlpearc
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Mlpearc powwow 19:07, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
I am sure you already know, and your feelings on the matter are very well known and understood but there are several conversations currently going on regarding allowing paid editors. I know that usually you allow the community to make a lot of the decisions on policy but in this case I thought you could voice your opinion eventhough you have done so on the subject multiple times in the past. If you do read through you will see that my opinion leans towards strictly controlled allowance so they cant edit in hiding as they currently do but I also understand that there could and would be second and third level affects to doing it (such as a loss of editors, monetary contributions or possibly affecting the nonprofit status of the WMF and WP). I for one and Im sure others would agree that it would be greatly appreciate if you could voice your opinion of the conversation. Here is the link to one: Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard#Wikipedia Experts (there are a couple others as well). Thanks in advance. -- Kumioko ( talk) 19:13, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
(Was gonna post on meta, but that leads me back here)
In recent days, there have been complaints about wikileaks on meta ("again," I presume); most of the posts are quite angry in tone. Maybe you could go around a bit more and make it clear that we don't control them and are not associated with them. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 > haneʼ 21:25, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
This is a case of an administrator not liking an article that has survived AFD so he speedily deletes it.
I DO NOT ASK YOU TO INTERVENE in the ANI question but to look at the larger picture
I merely point out to you that Wikipedia is much associated with you. Your picture is on every page asking for money. Yet, these shenanigans are happening are happening right under your picture.
You once wrote a national newspaper editorial about incivility on the internet. When unruly behavior, particularly that of an administrator keeps happening in Wikipedia, people either decide not to donate or wonder what on earth is happening.
If you have ideas to make Wikipedia fair, kind, predictable administrative behavior, and a nice place, please make a comment! If you think a little rudeness and shenanigans (like on facebook) is ok, that is a fair opinion and please say so! Happy Thanksgiving to you! Thank you in advance for your consideration to my question. பின்லாந்துF ( talk) 00:43, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
Me (Chap in the navy uniform) and Fiona (WikiContrib lady you spoke to who was going through RfA) really enjoyed meeting you today! We'll hopefully see you tomorrow, and again on the 19th! Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry ( talk) 01:29, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
I thought you might be interested in a discussion taking place at Wikipedia_talk:Wikipedia_Signpost/2010-11-22/In_the_news#Jimbo's dangerous incursions into international politics. -- Ohconfucius ¡digame! 03:33, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
Just came across this. I thought that you might enjoy seeing your appeal in a flashy, catchy, musical portrayal. Your appeal is beginning to go viral. ~ Super Hamster Talk Contribs 16:35, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
Hilarious. Although, at 302 views so far, it isn't exactly storming the Intarwebs. :-) -- Jimbo Wales ( talk) 18:00, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
Here is another evidence of the caos. (in Portuguese) This user makes check user without permission! Leandro LV ( talk) 22:34, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Articles on CIA activities abroad throughout Wikipedia have been hijacked by editors using neo-Nazi blogs like CounterPunch and ZNet to promote the most outlandish conspiracy theories. On the "CIA activities in Iran" page, I have twice had to remove allegations that the CIA overthrew the Shah and installed Khomeini, but the editors refuse to accept the removal, calling their edits "reliably sourced info." This page should be monitored to prevent the fantasies from again being restored. There are probably legions of these sorts of conspiracy theories in the really obscure pages; the CIA was also blamed for the 1968 coup in Iraq--a coup it vociferously opposed and spent years trying to rollback under Nixon and Ford. (The article now acknowledges: "David Wise, a Washington-based author who has written extensively about Cold War espionage, has disputed the notion that the CIA supported the 1968 coup, as has Middle East analyst James Phillips. According to a 2003 report by Common Dreams "many experts, including foreign affairs scholars, say there is little to suggest U.S. involvement in Iraq in the 1960s," although it is widely acknowledged that the CIA worked to destabilize the Qassem regime in the early part of the decade. Robert Dreyfuss, in his book Devil's Game, maintains that the Johnson administration actually opposed the 1968 coup and used the Shah's Iran as a counterpoint to the Ba'athist regime it established. A 2006 study concluded that the CIA's alleged role in the coup "cannot be considered historical" in the absence of more compelling evidence.") On the Richard Helms page, innuendo to the effect that the CIA killed President Kennedy--which was left in place for months if not years--was removed today. TheTimesAreAChanging ( talk) 00:55, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
Mr. Wales,
You had requested diffs to get to the bottom of this. The arbitrators who filed and actively lobbied for the topic ban never offered any specific diffs that supported their position. No fact was ever established nor did they support their accusations when challenged. There was no direct communication about the issues during the request. The only way to prove these points is to examine the Topic Ban directly. [13]
Neither link supports these accusations. It is my opinion that the links instead clearly demonstrate my concern with longstanding harassment and also demonstrate harassment of not only myself but of an administrator carrying out an arbitration remedy.
"No crime, no punishment" - "Nullum crimen, nulla poena sine praevia lege poenali". The only conduct issues that have ever been proven were edit warring and mild personalized comments from Jan. 2008 and Sept 2008. The edit warring stopped after the second 3R, which was before the 1st of five attempts at a topic ban. [20]
Mr. Wales there was no misconduct. There was no basis to draw a conclusion of misconduct. There was no specific evidence. There was no response from the accusers during the request. Please comment on these issues and consider a remedy to fix this major wrong done to my reputation. -- scuro ( talk) 15:28, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
A few days after you made a personal appeal banner in which you're asking us to donate a sum of money to Wikimedia, it has since been a subject of various parodies and spoofs. Do you find this insulting, or do you consider it as a form of good-natured mockery towards you? Blake Gripling ( talk) 10:07, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
Go back to Encyclopedia Dramatica and leave Mr. Wales alone. He's busy raising funds for a good cause. They're busy raising funds for a bad cause. Need I elaborate? --harrybagatestes@gmail.com (IP address useless, I live in Torpark.) Now quit your crying and go back to work. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.15.255.234 ( talk) 21:14, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
First, my apologies to the individual whose user talk page this is for my posting comments which may be better placed elsewhere. If anyone thinks these matters would be better discussed on a separate page, please feel free to tell me or even move the comments directly to the better choice of pages.
I know that there have been previous attempts to have somewhat reliable "opinion" pages on major issues, which have, basically, failed. It seems to me at least in part that the failure may have been based on the pages being structured to basically advance what might be a single opinion on an issue, rather than in a point/counterpoint format, or maybe in a format which would allow for multiple "position of (X)" sections. However, I do think that there might well be a use for such content, particularly regarding the upcoming US presidential election in two years. Yes, it is two years away, I know that. None of the candidates have (so far as I know anyway) even announced yet. Personally, I think that makes this the best possible time to establish ground rules for such material, if it were to be developed, so that we don't have any more individuals clearly advocating for a particular candidate or position than possible.
Maybe, and this is obviously just a maybe, somewhere, maybe in Wikibooks, we could create a location for multiple pages discussing the relevant issues, perhaps one page per issue, with separate sections on the stated or implicit positions of candidates or parties and for any "outside" entities which have addressed the issue. Exactly where to place material regarding, for instance, the clearly conservative Cato Institute might be somewhat difficult to decide, but I think that it could reasonably be done. And, perhaps, in a worst-case scenario, the pages might be placed under full protection rather early on, with changes only made after consensus on the talk page by people from multiple positions. That would entail having individuals state somewhere their own opinions, and having those who make the changes be comparatively neutral, and both of those might be difficult to achieve, but I think it could, maybe, be done.
In any event, if it is possible, I think having some sort of informative guide of as neutral a kind as possible would definitely be both useful for anyone considering a vote in that election, and probably be a major feather in the Foundation's cap if it could be done. If it succeeds in the US, where I think there are probably enough interested parties to make it workable, it might be adapted to work in other countries as well. Maybe. Anyway, just throwing the idea out there, and, again, my apologies to Jimbo if these comments would be better made elsewhere. John Carter ( talk) 18:34, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
This is Brian G. Crawford. I have part or much of what you requested from me. Email me via facebook to get it. I think I ran afoul of an impostor. 184.15.255.234 ( talk) 21:04, 28 November 2010 (UTC) (I'm on Tor, sorry)
Shouldn't Wikipedia have a special logo for its tenth anniversary by putting a cake with 10 candles on top of the Wikipedia logo? What do you guys think? WAYNE OLAJUWON 22:19, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
tenwiki:Design. / ƒETCH COMMS / 00:23, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
I already made a thread at ANI [21] about this, so I do not want to forum shop (and do not expect an answer specific to the question at ANI) but I think this is an important core issue. Basically, is hate speech / inciting to violence allowed in Wikipedia when it is sourced? Phoenix of9 03:47, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
Eh! I don't believe in same-sex marriage or just same-sex. IMHO, sex should be different each time. GoodDay ( talk) 03:01, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
The ANI thread was closed. [22] It is not unreasonable to cite source material or to discuss the beliefs that people have; but I would be concerned that this seems like an issue best covered in an article about some anti-gay perspective and only covered in " WP:summary style" at the same-sex marriage article, which might mean not placing WP:Undue weight on any one quote. One can vigorously contest the idea that because an anti-gay statute is in the Old Testament, and Christianity is based on the Old Testament, hence Christianity condemns it. After all, the Old Testament similarly condemns wearing a garment made out of two different kinds of thread. Its rules are reported to be designed to make Abraham's seed as numerous as the dust of the earth, as opposed to, say, establishing peace on earth and good will toward men. Christianity includes an injunction to "keep the commandments", but the definition of the latter may be open to debate; in any case they don't include the great bulk of Israelite dietary laws. And then, you might cover Jewish, Muslim, and other non-Christian perspectives. Wnt ( talk) 23:52, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
It is quite evident that when the Western liberalism of most Wikipedians comes into conflict with the stated project aim of neutrality, that neutrality loses. I stay well away from all such articles because there's not a hope in hell of neutralising the obvious agendas.-- Scott Mac 00:00, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
Using a primary source (such as the Bible) is usually a violation of the No Original Research policy. For example, should someone be allowed (on Wikipedia) to argue that the God of the Old Testament is actually the Devil based on the Bible's claim that God mass-murdered all humans and all other species other than the specific entities that were on Noah's Ark? - WAS 4.250 ( talk) 00:04, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
Thought you might be interested in this NY Times article on the website today [23], quoting the Turkish prime minister as saying the following: “First, let’s wait until Wikileaks spill all the beans, and then we would check how serious or unserious they are,” Mr. Erdogan said. “Because the seriousness of Wikipedia is doubtful." The Times should have pointed out that there is no connection between Wikipedia and Wikileaks. ScottyBerg ( talk) 17:23, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
Something occurred to me. Unlike the UK where images of most villages can be uploaded from http://www.geograph.org.uk/ there is a considerable problem for many places in the US and Canada obtaining a plentiful supply of decent freely useable photographs for small towns, and even larger ones, one example I can think of is Calabasas, California.... I was wondering Jimmy if your foundation would endorse the idea of running a US version of geograph to photograph every grid square or whatever you use for the United States. Sure it would be an ambitious project, but not as ambitious as wikipedia... This would not only solve our problem of having a poor supply of photographs for many places in the United States but it would build up a highly valuable bank of images over time under a Creative Commons/GFDL license which I am certain many people would find very valuable. I wonder how many times somebody has looked for a freely useable image of a small US town or unincorporated place and found no images on it. Given that geograph is clearly a massive success and has suppled the majority of British villages with images, I wonder if it would be too much to ask if the foundation could host a US version of such a project to attract people into a project which would photograph the United States in such detail? I know that the United States is considerably larger than the UK but I don't see why such a project couldn't be a success for most places with a high internet population. If I can get some sort of backing I'll make a formal proposal on this.♦ Dr. Blofeld 18:21, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
Were you just preparing to start a new article? -- œ ™ 09:40, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
Recently I searched google using the term, "theory of adhd". The first link was to the wiki article entitled, social construct theory of ADHD. The gist of this theory is that the disorder has been socially constructed and "could not exist had we not built it". Basically this theory questions the validity of the disorder and is often used to claim that the disorder doesn't exist. ADHD is considered a medical condition and accepted as such by the western world. SCTA would be considered a fringe viewpoint or possibly a minor viewpoint within select populations.
Now I know that google can be manipulated so that search results are skewed and all of this can happen outside of wikipedia. But, is wikipedia also contributing in some small degree in the improper dissemination of information? I could well imagine that this problem could involve many topics.-- scuro ( talk) 13:05, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
The "appeal from Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales" is made in the name of the above company (registered in the UK, number 06741827). Having looked up this company at the Companies House web-check service, I find that, although it is listed as active, there is a current "proposal to strike-off". It was incorporated in Nov 2008, but appears to have never filed any accounts as required by law - these are currently overdue.
This doesn't seem to be a very good incentive for people to donate money? -- MightyWarrior ( talk) 15:00, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
I thought you might be interested in the discussion about if we should be using and linking to these controversial wikileak documents. At the Administrators noticeboard here - Off2riorob ( talk) 16:35, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
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Gwen, I'm asking you this question mainly because of your frequent participation at this article and its talk page. Would you consider material presented from this source acceptable and helpful if used in a proper context? Thanks. Dr. Dan ( talk) 01:49, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
I lost you, but I’m confused myself. It appears as though the person with the least information available is most influential on the article. The U.S. is big on free press, and it works. My very low budget suburb is in a system which serves 225,000 people with 4 MILLION titles (numbers approximate, thanks Carol). That’s on the next shuttle van. Most of the rest of the assets of a state with 12 million people are a couple of days away by mail. The specialty stuff on AE from Radcliffe took maybe a week. And I am an amateur. Dan, you are over three million people higher in the food chain, you must be “world class”. Kierzek has clearly read and analyzed everything, reviewed most of it, and as far as I can tell, every word he says is accurate and informed. Kershaw, Joachimsthaler, Thomas, Trevor-Roper, Beevor, Shirer, Ryan, Toland, Eberle/Uhl, Lehmann/Carroll, O’Donnell, Victor, Petrova/Watson. (Vinogradov hit a snag, reordered). These are books which I have had in my possession and read parts of since Aug 2010. I can understand if others do not have access to the same resources, but I think that should be addressed. If someone does not have access to two footnotes which are critical in a discussion, that also should be addressed. I think maybe that “using information that they have read and can understand” means that if you only read and have access to the “Sun”, that is all you should use as a source. But I think you should get them right. And I don’t think that you should dispute or ignore works beyond the "Sun", they are outside your understanding. I know that this is P.O.V., and that I am personally involved. But I can not help but believe that this article has problems with it’s process. Wm5200 ( talk) 18:25, 15 September 2010 (UTC) Wm5200 ( talk) 21:58, 1 December 2010 (UTC) |
There is a question regarding the copyright status of National Labratories in the US. Does the WMF have legal counsel which could comment at Template_talk:PD-USGov-DOE#Template:PD-USGov-DOE_Laboratory_image_use? It's probably best not to stagnate this into what happened with US government portraits. Smallman12q ( talk) 21:52, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
Can one be an arb and not a checkuser? Kittybrewster ☎ 11:08, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
I don't know why Jimbo's laughing - he could not even keep the Arbs most private files secret [25]. So, I'm certainly not giving him (or an of his chosen employees) my name to throw about th internet about. Giacomo 14:40, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
With all due respect, Giacomo, we are talking about the internet. This is arguing (election) about the rights of those who decide arguments (arbcom) about arguments (how we present an issue on the encyclopedia). This "controversy" all comes across as a good deal of navalgazing. Magog the Ogre ( talk) 16:01, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
Mr. Wales. Up above I've asked a question regarding the nature & purpose of identification. I believe though you may have missed it as the conversation moved on, however I was hoping you could address it.--
Cube lurker (
talk)
15:57, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
If the requirement (along with being elected) to assume a seat on Arbcom, is to identify yourself to your Arb colleges? Then I don't see where Giacomo has a choice. Unless, after his rejection by the committee, he seeks to get the ID requirement overturned for Arb candidates. GoodDay ( talk) 16:52, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
Wait, can someone please point me to this long standing "policy" that one must identify yourself in order to be on the arbcom? I can't find it anywhere in the arbitration policy page. Tex ( talk) 17:42, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
Emphasis added is my own:
In addition to its role in dispute resolution, the Committee determines which editors have access to CheckUser and Oversight permissions, and considers certain matters where exceptional factors such as privacy preclude a public hearing.
Arbitrators are neither Wikimedia Foundation employees or agents, nor Wikipedia executives. They are volunteer users—usually experienced editors and administrators—whom the community of editors at large elects to resolve the most complex or intractable disputes that may arise within the community, and to oversee the few areas where access to non-public information is a prerequisite.
Functionaries are users who perform specialised roles, and have privileged technical access, on the Wikimedia projects. Examples include users with Oversight or CheckUser access, OTRS volunteers, and current and past members of the Arbitration Committee. Functionary access must be authorised by the Wikimedia Foundation, and requires confirmation of the user's identity to be recorded by the Foundation, to ensure compliance with the access to nonpublic data policy. This is in contrast to users such as Bureaucrats or members of the Bot Approvals Group, which are 'community' positions.
Functionaries whose permissions and responsibilities are confined to the English Wikipedia are under the jurisdiction of the Arbitration Committee. These functionaries include:
- Current members of the Arbitration Committee
- Former members of the Committee, who retain access to the functionaries-l mailing list (and are considered functionaries for that, somewhat recursive, reason)
- Users with CheckUser or Oversight access
Functionaries are held to a higher standard of behavior than normal editors, especially in issues related to their area of responsibility. If a user demonstrates a lack of judgment in an area related to their special access, their status as a functionary may be revoked; whether or not an explicit abuse of their privileged access has occured. As functionaries have a high profile within the project, and are the face of Wikipedia both to its editors and to the wider world, it is damaging to the integrity of the encyclopedia as a whole if these users are repeatedly embroiled in controversy.
A functionary may have their status and technical access removed with broad community consensus, or by a ruling of the Arbitration Committee.
-- Avi ( talk) 17:58, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
It's in italicized bold, the "nonpublic data policy." There is no mention of the bits themselves, it is access to the data that those with the bits supply to ArbCom in the process of ArbCom performing its duty. There is no exemption for volunteering not to have the bits. Members of ArbCom, in the pursuit of their duty, are privy to nonpublic data and fall under the foundation's policy. -- Avi ( talk) 18:10, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
Please see item 1 of wmf:Resolution:Access to nonpublic data -- Avi ( talk) 18:12, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
I'm really not trying to be difficult here, but the foundation's "nonpublic data policy" doesn't say you have to identify to be on the arbitration committee, either. Your link doesn't work, but Kittybrewster linked to it above saying #2 covered it before he changed his response. Now you're saying #1 covers it, but #1 says you can't have access to non-public data unless you identify. Nowhere that I can find does it say that you have to have access to non-public data to be on the arbitration committee. You may be a more effective arb if you do have that access, but it's not required. Tex ( talk) 18:37, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
It is really very simple, if someone is to be granted access to confidential information and thus be in a position to harm others and the foundation by abusing that access, we need to know who they are. User:Fred Bauder Talk 19:25, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
There are two separate links in the chain, it is confusing to combine them. The ANPD Policy categorically requires that users with access to nonpublic data must identify; this covers the CheckUser and Oversight permissions, and mailing lists where such data is routinely presented (arbcom-l and functionaries-en). Enwiki has defined in numerous places, as highlighted by Avi above, that access to these areas is required to be an Arbitrator; by which we conclude that to be an Arb it is necessary to identify. That link in the chain is not unbreakable, but it is currently in place, and to argue that it is not (which requires you to argue that WP:Functionary and WP:Arbitration Committee are not part of the corpus of Wikipedia governance) is basically wikilawyering. A constructive approach to this, if you desire there to be non-identified Arbitrators on the Committee, would be to commence a discussion through the usual channels, and form new policy on the subject, rather than blindly assert that the current consensus on the matter simply doesn't exist. Happy‑ melon 19:37, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
That's an interesting point. Can an arbitrator choose to forgo access to the internal arbitrator forums (the wiki, the mailing lists, etc)? And if he so chooses, would he then be required to identify himself to the Foundation? Raul654 ( talk) 20:24, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
To respond to Raul, in my opinion, an arbitrator without access to the data necessary to make decisions is only slightly more useful than a wikipedia editor without internet access. The purpose of ArbCom is to handle various situations on wikipedia which very often requires access to information for which the foundation requires identification. Technically, I guess an arbitrator can be excluded from having any part in every discussion in which confidential information may be necessary, allowing them to take part in discussions in which NO confidential information may be released. However, this places a burden on the remainder of the committee who may need to discuss confidential information. In my opinion, if someone is interested in that kind of role, they would serve the community much better by volunteering for the Wikipedia:Mediation Committee. -- Avi ( talk) 20:51, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
{{
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and {{
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around this conversation.)
Jehochman
Talk
21:01, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
Holy smokers, Giacomo has been with Wikipedia since 2004. If he isn't 18 by now, he's been the most precocious minor I've ever come across. GoodDay ( talk) 21:31, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
Really, what does identifying to the Foundation entail? I have been under the impression that it was faxing a copy of a drivers license, passport or other government issued ID. But what's to stop someone sending their mum's, dad's, best friend's or something? Or does it involve more than that? I don't see how though -- the Foundation certainly doesn't have enough employees to send people to editors' houses and demanding proof of ID. Can't Giacomo blank out his name or address or any other personal details he doesn't want the Foundation knowing, as long as his age or DOB is displayed? Matthewedwards : Chat 05:20, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
Hope that helps answer, although it's not one of the 'super-policies' like this one. Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry ( talk) 09:34, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
Imagine if Barack Obama wanted a seat on the Arbcom? The birthers would follow him here & dispute his birth certificate. GoodDay ( talk) 22:23, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
Howdy JW. I wish we could see the voting in progress at those elections, as we can at RfAs. Though I can understand why the progess must be kept hidden until results are finalized, the waiting is torturious. GoodDay ( talk) 13:59, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
Back then, like in January or February 2001, what was Wikipedia like? Just wondering. Perseus, Son of Zeus ( talk) 15:03, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
In theory, old days is inaccurate. Each earthly day, can only get 23.25 hrs old, thus each past day is no older then any other past day. GoodDay ( talk) 16:56, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
Hello, I could not help but notice on Jimmy Wale's wiki page that his DOB is questionable, either August 7 or 8, 1966. I am familair with numerology, and after a quick look at the numbers for both dates, it is clear to me that the 8th is much more likely to be the actual day of birth. The 8th of July that year produces important master numbers (an 11, 22, and 33) in prominent places on the chart that I think are indicative of Wale's success in technology pioneering. Hopefully this helps! Thanks, T —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.224.245.130 ( talk) 01:49, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
Something occurred to me. Unlike the UK where images of most villages can be uploaded from http://www.geograph.org.uk/ there is a considerable problem for many places in the US and Canada obtaining a plentiful supply of decent freely useable photographs for small towns, and even larger ones, one example I can think of is Calabasas, California.... I was wondering Jimmy if your foundation would endorse the idea of running a US version of geograph to photograph every grid square or whatever you use for the United States. Sure it would be an ambitious project, but not as ambitious as wikipedia... This would not only solve our problem of having a poor supply of photographs for many places in the United States but it would build up a highly valuable bank of images over time under a Creative Commons/GFDL license which I am certain many people would find very valuable. I wonder how many times somebody has looked for a freely useable image of a small US town or unincorporated place and found no images on it. Given that geograph is clearly a massive success and has suppled the majority of British villages with images, I wonder if it would be too much to ask if the foundation could host a US version of such a project to attract people into a project which would photograph the United States in such detail? I know that the United States is considerably larger than the UK but I don't see why such a project couldn't be a success for most places with a high internet population. If I can get some sort of backing I'll make a formal proposal on this.♦ Dr. Blofeld 18:21, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
Thanks. How do we go about proposing this then as its clear this is the wrong place for talking about it.... I've contacted Sue Gardner, who hopefully sees the potential in it.. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 22:02, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
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On 01:27, 5 August 2010 I posted a section on "Talk: Death of Adolf Hitler" titled “Random Questions” which started “I am not a scholar, I read Wiki but would not think of editing it. But I was disappointed in this article, and many points in the discussion, so I am asking some questions. Perhaps someone else will read and address them.” The section went on with several rethoritical questions, and ended with “As to sources, the last books I have read are The Murder of Adolph Hitler by Hugh Thomas (sort of shaky) and The Last Days of Hitler by Anton Joachimsthaler (English translation, I buy much of this).” Gwen Gale was apparently assigned me as an administrator, because at 09:47, 5 August 2010 (UTC) she replied with: ”As the article lead says,...This said, this talk page isn't a forum for talking about personal views or questions on a topic, it's meant for talking about sources and how to echo them in the text. I say this because the article seems to already cover, with thorough citations, most if not all of what you've brought up...dodgy. Gwen Gale (talk)” By this reply it appears that Gwen Gale is NOT FAMILIAR with the work of Joachimsthaler, who I have just referenced, and thinks that I am asking a personal question, not a rhetorical one. At that time I apologized, tried to explain myself, and restate my questions. At 17:48, 6 August 2010 (UTC) I posted” If I had read Kershaw's Nemesis Chapter 17 note 156 and Epilogue note 1 I wouldn't have wasted your time. You can't get much clearer than that. Should be required reading. Perhaps someone else should read them, and possibly edit the article. Thank you for your time.99.41.251.5 (talk)” At 16:36, 7 August 2010 (UTC) I posted “I would like to direct people to the work of Ian Kershaw Hitler, 1939-1945: Nemesis ISBN 0393322521. Chapter 17 and the epilogue relate to this article. Please pay attention to his notes and sources. Be warned, his book Hitler: a Biography is a kind of digest which does not include these resources....The source Joachimsthaler is basically an English translation of a German's analysis of 1950's post-Soviet interviews of bunker survivors. The original transcripts must be available somewhere. There are many other bunker interviews, some with questionable intent, and not all agree. Wm5200 (talk)“ Since those posts I have posted a huge amount on the talk page, virtually all of which Gwen Gale has disputed. Much of the material I have posted I have later deleted, often because I felt that the endless conflict between Gwen Gale and myself is counterproductive to the article. Anyone who is Wiki can probably bring back any of those posts. Was I sometimes rude and argumentative? Absolutely. Was I making legitimate points which related to the article? I thought so. Did I receive effective support and encouragement by my administrator? I think not, but you judge. My main point was that Joachimsthaler had reviewed the information, and had made a solid case for positions which Kershaw backed. I repeatedly begged anyone, especially Gwen Gale, to read Joachimsthaler and Kershaw, specifically, two footnotes, I even told the pages of the footnotes. Gwen Gale clearly had not read either source. 18:25, 15 September 2010 (UTC) I posted, under the heading “Question for Gwen Gale” , the following: ”I lost you, but I’m confused myself. It appears as though the person with the least information available is most influential on the article. The U.S. is big on free press, and it works. My very low budget suburb is in a system which serves 225,000 people with 4 MILLION titles (numbers approximate, thanks Carol). That’s on the next shuttle van. Most of the rest of the assets of a state with 12 million people are a couple of days away by mail. The specialty stuff on AE from Radcliffe took maybe a week. And I am an amateur. Dan, you are over three million people higher in the food chain, you must be “world class”. Kierzek has clearly read and analyzed everything, reviewed most of it, and as far as I can tell, every word he says is accurate and informed. Kershaw, Joachimsthaler, Thomas, Trevor-Roper, Beevor, Shirer, Ryan, Toland, Eberle/Uhl, Lehmann/Carroll, O’Donnell, Victor, Petrova/Watson. (Vinogradov hit a snag, reordered). These are books which I have had in my possession and read parts of since Aug 2010. I can understand if others do not have access to the same resources, but I think that should be addressed. If someone does not have access to two footnotes which are critical in a discussion, that also should be addressed...I know that this is P.O.V., and that I am personally involved. But I can not help but believe that this article has problems with it’s process.Wm5200 (talk)'" On 22:02, 11 November 2010 (UTC) Gwen Gale posted “For starters, the Russian autopsy bore overwhelming evidence he not only shot himself, but bit down on a cyanide capsule. Gwen Gale (talk)”. By this post it is clear to anyone familiar with either Joachimsthaler or Kershaw that Gwen Gale is still not familiar with either work. At 02:06, 12 November 2010 (UTC) I posted, under the title “Gwen Gale’s sources”, the following: “I think the rest of us in this discussion would benefit from knowing what Gwen Gale is using as sources, which sources that are on the article and the rest of us are familiar with is she NOT familiar with, which sources she has access to, and when she last familiarized herself with the ones which she is currently using. It appears that we are talking about a person who is "informationally challenged" relative the others in this discussion. Perhaps some arrangement might be made so she has a level of knowledge that could make her be an asset. I have both Kershaw Nemisis and Fest Hitler which I will donate, if it will bring her up to speed so this article is not impeded any more.(User:Wm5200)” At 04:59, 12 November 2010 Kierzek deleted my post “per Wiki talk page guidelines”. Okay, how do I address this continued refusal to read the source material? I have offered to mail Kershaw half way around the world so that Gwen Gale can read two crummy footnotes. But my offer is not only not taken up, but is apparently not in good faith, and even “snarky”. What can I do to get my administrator to read the source material? I would like to bring up two Wiki terms which I do not understand. It appears that Gwen Gale and I have a different “P.O.V.” about the usage of these terms. Assume Good Faith. I first thought that Gwen Gale would be a good administrator, after what I have been through, would YOU assume she is acting in good faith? Original Research. I have never been to Berlin, read any original documents, or talked to any eyewitness. The ONLY information I have about the subject is what I have read in published works. How is it that Gwen Gale finds so much of my work “O.R.”? Am I the only person who has had problems with Gwen Gale? Not if you read her contribs, and certainly not if you Google her name. Wm5200 ( talk) 22:00, 1 December 2010 (UTC) |
editor has been indef blocked
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1. Gwen Gale has dominated the article “Death of Adolf Hitler” for years. 2. Gwen Gale is not informed about the “Death of Adolf Hitler”. She refuses to acknowledge the work of Sir Ian Kershaw, about who Wiki itself (no books needed) says “He is regarded by many as one of the world's leading experts on Adolf Hitler and Nazi Germany and is particularly noted for his monumental biography of Hitler, which has been called "soberly objective." “. She continues to use Bezymenski, a 1968 admitted fraud, as a source over numerous other authors. 3. Any time anyone will keep Gwen Gale away from “Death of Adolf Hitler”, serious scholars will fix it and get stars or whatever, Wiki will be accurate, and proud. 4. Any time anyone will keep Gwen Gale away from “Death of Adolf Hitler”, I and all my posts become moot. All I have ever wanted was to get the “popular press” out of what I consider a serious subject. "Not one of your own friends. Better block me instead." Wm5200 ( talk) 23:08, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
When has this ever been about me? “I am not Wiki.” First sentence I ever posted. Do you flatter yourself by thinking I want to be? For me the “mission” has always been “the article”! When I got here the article belonged in one of Rupert Murdoch’s rags. I had read Joachimsthaler, who sounded rational, and thought he could be of some use in the article. That’s it. My whole goal in Wiki. Since being re-buffed by “my admin” (I don’t care about the assignments), I have read virtually everything about Hitler’s Death, becoming a world expert. About someone who I find distasteful, and doesn’t really interest me. And apparently to no avail. I can not get Gwen Gale to read two footnotes. Or get out of the way. That’s all I ask. Apparently I am the only person who thinks that possibly Gwen Gale might recluse herself from this one article, for the good of Wiki. It appears that the quality of the article is less important than the ego of one admin. I have said before, I don’t understand, or much care, for Wiki politics. Is this just a case of “old boy network”, where no one wants to offend a “friend”, or is there an actual “Gwen Gale maffia” who scares the rest of you? I’m still waiting for any kind of informed answer. Or are you just waiting for 24 hours to come, and archive me, out of sight, out of mind? And many of you miss the bitter irony of my now standard closing. "Not one of your own friends. Better block me instead." Wm5200 ( talk) 13:28, 1 December 2010 (UTC) Wm5200 ( talk) 22:04, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
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Re: [28], see Sheila Hollins, Baroness Hollins. Just a stub so far. Fences& Windows 22:08, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
Your founder message should have served its purpose by now. It's getting to be an insufferable nuisance. Time you desisted?-- 117.204.89.168 ( talk) 02:08, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
I have been trying to make some constructive changes and have run into the same problem time and again. I am looking at if what is trying to be included should be there and the counter I run into all the time is "It is well sourced." I am arguing the ethics of including material or the weight given to material, but the editors seem bent on only arguing over how well something is sourced. Being well sourced is a requirement, but it is not the only requirement. Yet it is the only point that holds any merit. If anyone has something that is well sourced and wish to include it they generally get their way. There must be some way to discuss the writing instead of the sourcing for articles. 67.176.220.219 ( talk) 10:38, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
Hello, i have problem with a uk sister user ( Mglovesfun) who remove my adds in wiktionary, like ipa prononciation and related term, can you talk with him please ? What's is problem ? Nemzag ( talk) 15:36, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
Scieberking ( talk) 05:59, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
This book has almost everything known about astronomy. Seriously, it is 1.5ft x 1ft x 2in.! I need to know where to start. Which astronomy article is most in need? Preferably ones concerning planets, moons, asteroids, comets, dwarf planets and such, because there is a lot more on them in the book. I might even take multiple months to transfer everything. I cant find much on a list or something, and since your really good at this stuff (you created wikipedia after all)... HELP!
Before I forget, How do I transfer photos? I had a photo I was gonna transfer, then I couldn't make it work, and now I lost it. But there is huge photos in the book, I'm positive I have access to a scanner, and if i don't know how to upload then I can't upload the pictures.
Mocha2007 (
talk)
18:33, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
Is the WMF applying repetition variation to their fundraiser banners in order to make them more effective? Smallman12q ( talk) 23:19, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
Im guessing you were the first user on Wikipedia. What was the first skin used on Wikipedia??? A Word Of Advice From A Beast: Don't Be Silly, Wrap Your Willy! 00:45, 4 December 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Beastly21 ( talk • contribs)
Please would you take a moment to read Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)#When_we_see_cyberbullying... contributing if you wish. Fiddle Faddle ( talk) 12:48, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
I'm interested in a particular research question and I'm posting here in the hopes that someone can point me in the direction of previous work on the question.
I'm interested in thinking about how to assign "credit" or "blame" for what is in particular Wikipedia pages, with a view towards matching up the resulting data with data on pageviews, to get a fresh perspective on "who wrote what the public is reading on Wikipedia"? I have no particular objective in finding that out, nor do I think it is an accurate way of thinking about who is valuable in the community: I'm just thinking about whether it is easy to determine.
I assume something like Wikipedia:WikiBlame is relevant. But I wonder what work has been done in this area that I should know about.-- Jimbo Wales ( talk) 15:28, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
In case you want to see it, we are now working on designing your card; it isn't perfect yet, butI thought you might like to have the link so that you can follow its progress. You can see it here. I hope you like it! ~~ Hi878 (Come shout at me!) 03:32, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
Not sure how often this happens, but I'm happy to report that I got the project some good press in the Albany, New York area. [29] upstate NYer 06:41, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
The rules of this election are clear. Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2010/Candidates. One of the rules, not written by me, says candidates must "be willing and able to identify to the Wikimedia Foundation before taking their seat." I am not empowered to make appointments in explicit contravention of policy. Therefore, I will appoint candidates to ArbCom who are eligible for appointment only upon their identification to the Foundation. Any future discussion about this should be focused on whether that policy should change, not on what I should do, because I've already said what I am going to do - I will follow policy.-- Jimbo Wales ( talk) 12:47, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
←(ec) I personally find it somewhat shocking that the identifying information is discarded. That strikes me as a very shaky way of doing things. Looie496 ( talk) 21:24, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
Jehochman, even in the case where the crime was a cyber crime, so that there is no connection between the perp and the crime other than the IP, how would that conceivable be connected to wikipedia? The only thing I can conceive of being possible would be if somehow, someone, whilst logged in to wikipedia, performed a crime using the wikipedia account, AND that person is a functionary and is ostensibly ID'd to the foundation. That is so remote that I think it is overkill to consider it, but I am not an expert on cybercrime, FWIW. -- Avi ( talk) 02:23, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
The far more likely situation is of a functionary acting poorly (selling private information, etc), and/or acting illegally and the foundation having no way of holding them accountable. A confirmed identity is a small step to ensure a small degree of accountability. 75.23.47.60 ( talk) 03:09, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
Jimbo, would it be possible for you to explain specifically how identification is verified as far as ARBCOM goes? I think that would be very helpful.
The Eskimo (
talk) 05:17, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
:Because it obviously has to do with legal problems. I know in some instances (regarding photos, usually), an editor submits a photo with a sign saying "I am so-and-so." So I wonder if, in the case of ARBCOM, it is something similar, or if a credit card authorization is required, or if it is a 1-800 # voice prompt, or a personal visit by Wiki-legal, or something else.
The Eskimo (
talk)
05:27, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
I think what I can say is that I agree very much with Jayen466 and Slim Virgin in that identification for the purposes of ArbCom should be strengthened to be more meaningful. It is too early right now, but I think we should be moving in the direction of understanding that as the highest community dispute resolution group on English Wikipedia, there is a serious responsibility to the public, and that real names are a critical means to accountability and transparency. Keep in mind that English Wikipedia alone has more traffic than many of the major newspapers in the world combined. There are some very valid reasons why some people prefer to keep their real names quiet, and I respect that very much. But there are no valid reasons to keep real names from me, fellow ArbCom members, and the Wikimedia Foundation.
For this election, I am not going to invent novel policy. I try to keep my role at the moment of appointments as minimalist as I can, consistent with my real responsibilities to the project. Therefore, I will follow the policies set down at the outset of this election. And for next years election, I think people should anticipate that I will be much more likely to strengthen these requirements, as usual upon the conclusion of a thoughtful community discussion and a period of reflection away from the issues of the current election.-- Jimbo Wales ( talk) 13:41, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
Speaking from experience, I sent a scanned drivers license and business card to Cary, encrypted to both his and my PGP key. This allowed Cary to be certain that the information sent came from the person who controls the this account as the e-mail address behind it. By sending the business card, I offered the WMF the ability to call me and verify any information if they wanted. Lastly, given the only thing sent was an encrypted e-mail and separately encrypted file, if Cary deleted the decrypted version, my information is safe but accessible at any time. I'd welcome having someone, or maybe two people, in the office responsible for this (Jimbo and Phillipe; Jimbo and Jay Walsh, etc.), responsible for receipt, encryption, and safety of the information, and having the "keys" to decrypt the ID if necessary. -- Avi ( talk) 17:22, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
In little over a month, Wikipedia will complete 10 years of existence, since January 2001. I want to congratulate you and thank you for founding Wikipedia. Another thing: I read rumors saying that Wikipedia will become a paid service. Is this true? I hope he responds. Happy Holidays! - Eduardo Sellan III ( talk) 19:26, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
Hello. Will you celebrate (personally)? 109.111.31.95 ( talk) 11:49, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
Hi Jimmy,
Why you, in the deletion of a sexy contents on commons (excellent idea, compliments) you have deleted the images if not you are a adimn? Thanks! (Sorry, it's a my curiosity :) )
« CA » (
talk)
16:48, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
Postum Scriptum: reply on my talk page, please.
sorry but i can't work out how to ask someone else! I have a mad family history. you have a page on a weymarn who was the first german female general but she is part of a much bigger family with a huge history - friends with the csar, the csarina, tortured, smuggled out of russia etc. had own estate, employed several 100 people,several breweries etc. want to start an entry please. How do i go about that.....seems too complicated. If you search google you can find my brothers (even on google images) and multiple other family members. It's an interesting family full of factual historical characters..... all seems too complicataed.
Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.172.108.125 ( talk) 00:38, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
Mr Wales, do you consider yourself left wing? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.79.249.15 ( talk) 11:28, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
Dear Mr Wales I have been Wikipedia contributer since 2005 and in that time have started 140 original articles and modified about 700, all on subjects that I have knowledge on. I am writing to you as I believe that there has developed considerable waste in both computing effort and consequently money in the uncontrolled editing. I believe that the use of info-boxes do not add to the information of an article, and the majority have many items blank. What is there is duplecated from the text to be read. This must be quite a drag on resources when considering the whole encyclopedia. Every day I see changes that do not make any improvement to the use of the encyclopedia. Adding links to the country entry after already linking to the town entry; Changes in date format (29th May to 29 May); Changes in word order: changes of "&" to "and"; changes from UK English to US English (& vice verse); changes in category and spliting of categories. the use of bots and AWBs which do not alter the sense of the text. Even single spelling mistakes could be left unchanged (to be changed at a later major edit), where the meaning is obvious. I have long been of the opinion that editing should only be allowed by registered contributors, it is easy to register and has no cost. This would also reduce vandelism. I also believe that one's pesonal page should give an indication of one's background. I do not believe that changes should be made by people with no knowledge of the subject on purely what they have obtained from the internet. Without a little understanding of the subject, no judgement can be made on authenticy. When I read of a contributor has made tens of thousands of edits, it immediately makes me discount the accruacy of his work. This must be change for the sake of change and that the editor treats Wiki as a kind of game. One other point is that of copyright of photographs. The classification for copyright has changed at least five times. Many photographs wheremuch effort was made to obtain the owner's permission to use on Wiki, have been deleted because they did not conform to a later classification. Surely there is no hazard if permission is granted. Could not such photos be protected by grandfathering?
Don Joseph
DonJay ( talk) 15:08, 6 December 2010 (UTC)