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Thanks for your generous comment. I hope you will be able to contribute to some of the art articles here - which are often sorely in need of attention! Editors with a sentitivity to painting are sorely needed. Paul B 11:38, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
Very kind of you to say. You'll see from my user page that I have a great respect and admiration for the pioneers who made this field happen. As soon as I get a chance I'll be expanding your dad's bio; the Alter Ego interview is so long it's been daunting me, but I've been wanting to glean info from it. I'll let you know when I do.
Glad to see you've registered, and here are a few good links for newcomers:
Happy Wiki-ing! -- Tenebrae 13:57, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
Happy Wiki-ing!
Hi, I'm glad that you were impressed with Wikipedia after hearing reading about it in the New Yorker--I just wanted to take a moment to welcome you, as Tenebrae also did, and encourage you to stay and be part of the community. You seem to be a very good writer, and so I'm sure you will find some very interesting and very satisfying projects to work on. If you have any questions, feel free to ask. Happy editing ! AdamBiswanger1 14:21, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
No problem - sometimes you catch them - sometimes you don't - enjoy life -- Nigel ( Talk) 07:24, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
In [1] this edit you removed an important source, as well as inserted POV and original research, both of which are prohibited under Wikipedia policy. Please note that the metapsychiatry.org website does not currently have any content. Captainktainer * Talk 02:04, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
Me again - funny how most analysis of ingres are fairly dry, espc. considering how rich and suggestive a painter he was. I'd like to do some work on this article fairly soon, but anyway, keep up the good work you're doing Coil00 02:09, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
Probably most viewers don't get past the polish and control of his surfaces, which don't exactly inspire florid prose. Yet he was a tremendous draftsman and portraitist--the painting of Bertin, a grumpy toad, is one of my favorite portraits of the 19th century.
You keep up the good work, too. JNW 03:00, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
Wow, that edit feels like it was a long time ago... Basically, disambiguation notices are helpful when two topics have the same or a similar name, so they should always be used whenever remotely appropriate. As for the mention in popular culture, in general pop culture sections should have more that one entry, so it's okay to have the Arrested Development show listed twice on that article for style reasons. Also, a lot of people never actually see the disambiguation notice, especially when they immediately find what they're looking for, so a second writeup could be helpful. If more pop culture references turn up, though, if it ever comes time to trim the pop culture section, go ahead and strip it out. Captainktainer * Talk 13:24, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
Just came across this: Bertin, the grumpy gorilla! - Coil00 21:23, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
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The Editor's Barnstar | |
For diligence in removing spam links, redundancies, and other unnecessary accretions from artists' biographies, I award you this Editor's Barnstar. —Cel ithemis 00:26, 29 October 2006 (UTC) |
I would prefer to email you about this if you don't mind. Thanks for having the good grace of openly admitting I might have had a point; I admire that and you have been extremely civil about my comments, which again is most creditable; I'm sorry if I seemed rude it was not my intention. However, the 2 users who have 'weighed in' in your favour, well one has a history of only doing deletions of bad wiki articles, as far as I can tell, and fair enough, and the other has spent the last 2 motnhs editing an article about Cannabis. Neither know a great deal about art! Frankly that impresses me very little. In other words, reagrdless of what they say, I am not impressed by their wiki track record of adding good stuff and by comparison I can see that you and me have certainly been very active in adding good stuff to this site. Therefore, I would suggest it's down to you and me to sort this matter out. Maybe you will be happy to remove the worst links and leave at that? I would accept that proposal. It is a pity links cannot be amalgamated into a sub-page...But just let me know when you have made your mind up...I hope this is an acceptable solution. best regards Peter morrell 18:42, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
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The Barnstar of High Culture | |
For your excellent recent flexibility, civility, editing work and humble team-manship which is much appreciated Peter morrell 21:46, 31 October 2006 (UTC) |
Many thanks for your comment! Johnbod 03:35, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
I am just starting a new page. You seem to be knowledgeable on art of the late 19th century. You are welcome to make any revisions on my Haystacks (Monet) page. I have a long way to go. I was wondering if there is a category for Series Paintings. This is my second Series ( Campbell's Soup Cans). I am also wondering if the term series is a serious enough art term to deserve mention on the Series dab page. I am an art hack who has never studied formally. I have never painted. I attend about 3-5 exhibits a year though. TonyTheTiger 18:46, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
You are certainly welcome to make any collaborative changes you feel are proper and necessary. In addition to being untrained, I am now distracted by my newfound wikitemplate making skill. I will probably spend a little time each day with Haystacks, but it will be a slow work in progress. When you look at the code on the edit page you will find each title contains all the info the source webpage attached to the photo. I have found some titles with distinct photos and am becoming confused on whether I am confused or some other webmasters are confusing photos. I have to get some authoritive books. My Library has several Tucker books. If you go to www.chipublib.org. >> search our catalogue >> advance search option >> put "Paul Hayes Tucker" in the Author keyword and type search you will see my choices. Do you know which of these I should be asking for. I will place a hold if you can give me further direction and have it forwarded to my local branch, The ( Blackstone Library). TonyTheTiger 16:53, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
So far I have only found Monet texts that were at my local Borders. I sat down for an hour or 2 with them and gleaned some knowledge that is on my current article. P.S. If you know where I can find a complete set of the 25 1890 Harvest Haystack images that are properly labelled that would be of great assistance. Also, I probably want to add the 5 1888 Harvest Haystacks and their images. TonyTheTiger 01:55, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the nice compliment on the Degas article. And it's only right to commend you right back--I've noticed your edits over the last few months and you've raised the quality of everything you've worked on. WP art-related articles in general have come a long way in the last year (with some conspicuous laggards--the Picasso article barely mentions his work!) Ewulp 04:24, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
Thank you! That brightened my day :) —Cel ithemis 07:49, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
Many museums attribute all sorts of trash to Giorgione. Usually it is their wishful thinking which is not generally shared by the scholarly community. You may search for Giorgione on the website of the Hermitage Museum if you want examples. With portraits, the problem is even more more complicated. Nobody can be sure whether a high-quality Venetian portrait from the 1510s was painted by Titian, Giorgione, Lotto, or perhaps Sebastiano del Piombo. Furthermore, I'm not aware of Venetian self-portraits before Titian. -- Ghirla -трёп- 17:58, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
Johnbod 04:34, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for adding the reference to Rodin and working on the article. I'm being fussy (and you're welcome to be also) because I'm maybe building toward a featured article attempt. Any help you can provide, especially on the "big-picture" aspects of Rodin (influences, influence, style) would be great. But I see you're on a break. Hope it's not related to this article... – Outriggr § 05:01, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
Try a force-reload of the page -- shift-F5 or ctrl-F5, depending on your browser. I restored the correct image, but the Monet portrait may still be stuck in your browser's cache. —Cel ithemis 05:09, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for helping cleanup Haystacks (Monet). I have just begun learning about peer review, good articles, and featured articles. My first feedback has taught me that I am eventually going to have to reaquire all my sources and properly cite them inline in many of my articles. I have begun overhauling my other series article ( Campbell's Soup Cans). If you get a chance, you may want to use inline citations like I have begun to do there. I am not sure if things are in the proper format there, but most FAs seem to use a method similar to this. If you still have the source you added it would be great if you could cite the information from it properly. In the future I plan to add the following to the code for the article: TonyTheTiger 16:54, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
03:18, 3 January 2007 JNW (Talk | contribs) (rv spam links out the waz (sp?); many replete with advertsing, some selling products, some inexpert blogs, and some theorists--and more should probably go, too.)
Please advise why? This website is a collection of articles about 'Great Italians' and does not offer any advertising or selling of products. Wikipedia currently links to several other pages within this website.
Thank you for improving the article, c.q my English. A dutchman Taksen 10:55, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
I added a some at Saskia van Uylenburg, may be you can check my dutch, and perhaps we can cooperate in the future. Taksen 22:46, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
I am asthonished you did not move the information to Rembrandt. Besides, I think, the article on Rembrandt is way too long, and my information was quite informative. I did not want to start new articles on Titus or Hendrickje, but now i have. I am sad you did not appriciate my extensions Taksen 18:03, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
I agree not all the information was not Saskia, but as i said before, the article on Rembrandt is very long. I got almost a headache, when reading it, too much information, not easy to digest. So I tried to tell something about Rembrandt through Saskia. It is a lot of work to start new lemma's on Hendrickje, Geertje and Titus. I was trying to be efficient. Besides, tell me who your friends are, I will tell you who you are, dont you agree? Taksen 18:24, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
Citing Britannica should be fine. In an ideal world, everything would be cited directly to scholarly sources rather than to an encyclopedia, but short of the Featured Article Candidates process, I doubt anyone's going to complain about it unless it conflicts with other sources. It's a good place to start. —Cel ithemis 04:49, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
Molto piacere! Haiduc 23:16, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
Hi, since you're about, any thoughts on this? No one ever seems to visit the page, but things are beginning to stir there. Johnbod 02:34, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
are you doing any more? We have an edit conflict. I can finish after i've got my guys back on. cheers Johnbod 01:00, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
No problem - my fault for leaving an edit open for a hour or so when I knew you were around! All ok now. I find I'm adding a lot of minor names, when I know lots of major ones aren't in the printmaking categories - so your contributions are very helpful. I'm done now, so if you were going to, please carry on Johnbod 01:09, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
Nice job on Veronese, and much-needed. Last time I checked (January) there was almost nothing there. Today I was flipping through Paintings in the Louvre & thought of adding L. Gowing's remarks about the artist to the article--you got there ahead of me! Ewulp 09:20, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the revert on Belle Époque. To give some heft to the article, I have substanially re-written it. The subject matter is very much the same. (The revert wasn't in vain!) But I think that the organization and flow of the article is now better. I think the article conveys the sense that this was Europe-wide phenomenon with clearly definable characteristics (general political stability, increasing class-based identities, tremendous technological/scientific advances leading to modern life as we know it, creation of what we recognize as modern artistic forms). Also, the body of the article now reflects the three main topics that were presented in the introductory paragraph(s), namely politics, science, and art. I hope that it won't be continually vandalized. Poldy Bloom 05:39, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for your edits. I'm afraid I was much more ruthless than you. But I have left a mention and an expanded footnote.
-- Amandajm 14:05, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
Hi! I just noticed my name in your kudos section. :) Thanks! You obviously care for the work you do on wikipedia, too. --sparkit TALK 16:26, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for the thank you, and good work on John Singer. He would profit from further expansion of content (I'd like to flesh it out more one day), yet given the outline, headings, image links, and cites, he might merit a 'B' rating now. What do you think? JNW 21:24, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
PS--I always enjoy the rotating images on your user page. JNW 21:26, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
You can see from my last note how a list can grow: you asked about landscapes, and I went off about other subjects as well...the result of enthusiasm. And yes, I think you have made it a most representative sample. Good work.
I believe The Chess Game was sold to a private party, for an undisclosed but vigorous price. The HCNY still owns a batch of Sargent portraits. JNW 15:40, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for your comments! Yes, I'm very interested in the way that Michelangelo depicted God. "Awesome!", as my evangelical nephew would say.
The only things that I know of that come anywhere near the power of the "image" that Michelangelo gave God are the Christ Pantocrator at Daphni, the hypnotic God in the Baptistry at Padua by Giusto da Menabuoi and that huge figure which might be by Cimabue in the Baptistry at Florence. There's not a lot of space there, so it looms over you in a terrifying manner with no room for escape. There's a good one at Monreale as well but more gentle. Does one draw a distinction between the persons of the Trinity? I'd like to read your paper. Was it published?
Also, what a great portrait that is on your User Page! Well done. How about a self portrait as well?
-- Amandajm 10:31, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
The final (First day of Creation) image is surely Michelangelo himself, working on the ceiling in the supreme act of creation. I found a website the other day that supported this vview, but I've lost it. The beard is shorter, the face is almost hidden, the figure is workingg aboovve his head.
As for God creating the Earth, Sun and Moon, the wrathful God has mmuch in common with the Moses for Pope Julius' tomb. It has been said before that Michelangelo represented the Pope as God. Well, iif so, it's an image more in keeping with thhe man who said "Show me with a sword; I know nothing of books!"
As for the creationn of Adam, there's much more of a benvolence in that picture. I've always loved the hand of God which is so square and capabable but hhas delicate fingertips. Its the hand of a man who not only pounded the clay and modelled it to make the man but who also wired the circuits of his brain.
There's been a study done on Michelangelo's David which indicates that he was almost certainly a stone mason. Several of the models on the ceiling have similar characteristics. What we see in the forearm of Michelangelo's God is the massive development consistent with using a hammer and chisel, in particular the bulge just near the wrist which is the abductor pollicus longus which brings the hand forward in relation to the forearm and is used when hammering in a controlled way (cobbler's tacks as against six inch nails). I'm sure we are looking at Michelangelo's own arm here. But I can't really say this, can I? I'm sure it falls under the category of original research!
Well perhaps I'll give this an airing on the comments page and see what comments it brings. I'll also track down some of the other images of God for you. In quite a lot of late Medieval/Early Renaissance images there is no distinction between God the Creator and God Incarnate so that when God is shown in the Creation stories, he looks just like Jesus in the Redemption episodes, the only difference being that he is often given a triangular halo as against Jesus' triple-rayed halo which symbolises the cross as well as the Trinity. God appears like this in the frescoes at San Gimigniano. There is another picture of the Trinity somewhere... I think a Jesuit statement...which shows the triune God as three identical Jesus-persons all enthroned side-by-side. Rather intimidating...I'd hate to get up there and have the three of them arguing over where to send me. I wonder if there's a wikipage devoted to depictions of God.
-- Amandajm 02:13, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
Interesting! I just took a look at the Doni Tondo. There IS a link with the Lybian Sibyl. They are both quite extraordinarily dynamic and daring images. The Blessed Virgin even shows her armpit. I also checked out God dividing the waters from the heavens. You're right.
My observation of the frescoes (from books) indicates that some of the prophetic fgures were squared up, indicating that he enlarged from drawings. In other figures there are very clear stiletto marks indicating that he used full-sized cartoons. In other figures there are neither, and the outlines have either been scraped into the surface or just painted on in colour.
Why have you never been to see the originals? You really ought, if it is possible for you. It's quite mind-blowing, even if, like me, you think that the "restoration" went too far altogether. What country do you live in? -- Amandajm 16:06, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
Nice job removing Koppelaar's and others' self-promotional images on the various pages they appeared. Very professional, replacing and not just deleting them. I had also come across some in the articles for Cat and Lion, but they seem to have been cleaned up since I noticed them. Adamflorin 22:19, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
Thank you. In some cases, as in the one you mentioned, the artwork is quite good, but it is really embarrassing to load, or have someone else insert, one's images throughout the articles on painting (ditto the formulation of vanity articles, which just look cheesy), especially when wikimedia offers a plentiful stock of masters' works. JNW 02:08, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
User talk:The Anonymous One#final warning on disruptive editing. Let me know if there are any further problems. If I'm not around to answer, make a report at WP:AIV and link to that final warning. Thank you, — coel acan — 06:23, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Well done! I'm not finished there yet. Maybbe you could drop back there in a few days and refine my language again. I think the problem is, I've been writing for Simple English Wikipedia which employs mainly words of one syllable! My vocabulary has desserted me. -- Amandajm 10:09, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
This was a list but has now been hugely expanded by a few editors; some of it may be cut & pasted from other articles, I'm not sure. Much of it is repeated at a new Western painting. The coverage & quality seem pretty variable to me. As these are I suppose flagship articles, people may like to help out. Johnbod 02:33, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
I've copied you this as i don't know if you see the VA project discussion page - maybe time to sign up btw, duties are light! cheers Johnbod 02:54, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
Please weigh in on a building edit conflict at Western painting, thanks Modernist 14:46, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for reporting 66.158.93.101 to WP:AIV, however I see that they have not received any recent warnings. IP users generally must have received a recent warning because IPs can be reassigned and the current user may not be the same as the one who vandalized in the past. —dgies t c 21:35, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
Once again they are trying to delete images on Western painting. They've asked for opinions on Wikipedia talk:Non-free content. I hope you can weigh in. Thanks. Modernist 21:34, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
I have been up to my ears busy at work, and have not had the proper time to read the guidelines on the use of images, but they seem to be open to various interpretations. My general take is that in the past I have eschewed the use of too many images in biographies, but I can see their value in the context of an overview like this one, especially in trying to illustrate the dizzying array of 20th century art movements. Until I can offer a more informed comment, my input is of little help, other than to say that you have done a terrific job with this article. JNW 03:13, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
if you could kick the hard stuff just like that! Cheers, Johnbod 13:12, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
You really do a valiant job!
-- Amandajm 11:08, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
Perhaps you could take a quick look at this quick effort. As usual I have rather run out of puff after Tiepolo, & have no practical knowledge! Cheers, Johnbod 03:50, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
Hi. It seems that you have had some trouble with 216.54.173.2 on articles too. Are you an admin? If so, he's also vandalized the Sandman (Marvel Comics) article recently. Nightscream 22:51, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
You may see that I have renominated Haystacks (Monet) for WP:GAC unsuccessfully. Although the statistics might say otherwise, I almost consider you the main editor of the article at this point. You have masterfully cleaned it up. Can you help me find the missing quotes so we can get this a good article rating? You seem like the kind of guy who might have the necessary books in his possession. TonyTheTiger ( talk/ cont/ bio/ tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 00:47, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for the heads up. I will see if I can be of any help. JNW 12:58, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
One to match your Vermeer/Van Meergheran (or whatever) article comparison - have you ever seen a fuller article on a single painting than this? Johnbod 01:37, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
As you did here and here. Thank you. ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihon joe 20:23, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
I appreciate your point of view, as well as the unsolicited opinions of several contributors here [2]. Even (or especially) when I'm sure I'm right, overzealousness must be my least attractive feature. My best judgment, post dinner, is to gently wish all a good evening, and many happy reverts. JNW 03:49, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
Dear user JNW,
I noticed that you deleted my contribution to the Impressionism page, removing the information I posted about Wynford Dewhurst. You say Dewhurst was a painter/writer of no influence, but as an art historian at the University of Bristol, UK, I can assure you that the publication of Dewhurst's most important work as an author Impressionist Painting: its genesis and development in 1904 was extremely "seminal" and very influencial to British artists as it was the first book on French Impressionist to be published in English and helped to introduce many important British artists (e.g. Sickert, Philip Wilson Steer, James Whistler) to this style of painting, long before Roger Fry's 1910 exhibition. Moreover, Dewhurst was a follower of Monet and spent considerable periods of time working in France with Impressionist painters. He corresponded with Pissarro and Monet.
I believe the nature of Wikipedia is to share knowledge and to expand on existing articles to add interesting information all the time, please do not remove my post about Dewhurst again. I understand that you have removed useless and unhelpful references to other entries in other cases, like the editor who rather ridiculously added Kevin Wasden to Klimt and Degas, but as an academic who has researched Wynford Dewhurst and Impressionism (with particular attention to the emergence of Impressionism in British painting) extensively, I can tell you that Dewhurst was, in fact, an important and influencial figure in bringing Impressionism to Britain; I can assure you that my contribution was valid.
Finally, when you have listed artists representing Impressionist painting in Turkey and Egypt (!) why on earth would you deny a painter like Dewhurst to represent the movement in Britain? Outside of France, Impressionism was present more profoundly in Britain than any other nation, including America. Certainly Impressionism was more present in Britain than in Turkey or Egypt. In the matter of Impressionism in Britain Dewhurst was one of the foremost figures; although not as successful a painter as Whistler or Sickert with the Camden Town Group, as a writer he was of the utmost importance, his 1904 book was at the time the ONLY book in English about Impressionism and was therefore very influencial to British painters. I appreciate your effort if you thought that I didn't know what I was talking about, but this time please do not whimsically remove valid contributions merely because you haven't yourself heard of the subject in question (in this case Wynford Dewhurst). Please do not remove a valid contribution just because the information is beyond your understanding of the movement. Accept my apologies if I am wrong but perhaps your knowledge of Impressionism is limited to the most "famous" painters (e.g. Monet - and others who sell for millions of pounds in Christie's and Sotheby's) but you should trust art historians with university educations on Impressionism to decide who was important in spreading the movement outside France, before you dismiss important figures like Dewhurst as "minor". In bringing Impressionism to Britian, it was Dewhurst.
For your information, and just as an example of Dewhurst's importance as a writer (you say he was not seminal), consider the fact that his book Impressionist Painting presented the thesis that the French Impressionists relied on British painters John Constable and J. M. W. Turner in technique. This theory was responded to personally by the great giant of Impressionism, Pissarro. With masters like Pissarro reading and responding to Dewhurst's book, how can you dismiss his work as a writer? Considering that his book was the FIRST study of French Impressionism in the English language, how can you say he was not seminal?
If you are still hesitating, research British Impressionism first and then get back to me. Kenneth McConkey has written a couple of very good books on the subject (British Impressionism published by Phaidon (1989) and Impressionism in Britain, exhibition cat., published by Yale University Press (1995), both of which feature Dewhurst prominantly.)
Thank you -- Mahboubian 01:43, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
Dear Mahboubian,
Thank you. Your note to me was impressive for your knowledge on the subject. Initially I was dubious; I found little about Dewhurst via a google search (no other bios of much substance), believed your additions were a bit too prominent for the articles on Impressionism and Monet, and I was not taken by the quality of his work. However, and not for the first time, I have encountered a subject about which I have much to learn, and you are obviously a good and patient teacher.
I appreciate the time and effort you took to write me, and the depth of your scholarship here. I do want to read more about Dewhurst and his writing, and will look up McConkey. In the meantime, I stand corrected. Respectfully yours, JNW 03:26, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
According to McConkey, Dewhurst's book was indeed "the first important study of the French impressionists to be published in English". However, McConkey also notes that Dewhurst was anxious to maintain that French impressionism was British in conception, and that "Pissarro objected to this preposterous claim"; the phrasing here, and the citing of George Moore's opinion in the next paragraph, is such as to indicate that McConkey agrees with Pissarro.
In the case of Dewhurst's influence on the British artists you mentioned, there is reason to be skeptical, after all. The French and British were familiar with each others' works dating from the early 1800s. We know of Constable's influence on Delacroix, and of the latter's friendship with Bonington. So it is odd to suppose that English artists were unfamiliar with impressionism until 1904. In fact, the work of French impressionist painters was being written about, exhibited, and purchased by collectors in London in the 1870s (Degas, Sickert, and Toulouse-Lautrec: London and Paris 1870-1910, Tate Publishing; catalogue of a wonderful show, which I saw in London).
As for Sickert, Steer, and Whistler: by 1889 Sickert and Steer were exhibiting, along with a number of other 'London Impressionists' who were at odds with the more traditional members of New English Art Club, at the Goupil Gallery in London. By this time Sickert had long since been a protégé of both Degas and Whistler; the latter was, of course, familiar with impressionism and its practitioners decades before Dewhurst published his study (in fact, Whistler was dead before 1904). Sickert and Steer were the primary British painters in the impressionist vernacular before the turn of the century. Steer's best-known impressionist venture was Knucklebones, which was painted by 1889.
Maybe Dewhurst's role was to further popularize Monet's brand of impressionism. Certainly he merits mention for being the first to write a book on the impressionists in English (although many articles had preceded him, like an essay by the American Theodore Robinson, a first-rate painter who wrote an enthusiastic article about his mentor Monet and the other impressionists in the early 1890s). Indeed, by 1885 American painters were visiting and working alongside Monet in Giverny--how could the British have not known about all this until the 20th century? They did. JNW 18:42, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
You are a truthful and good editor and you have my respect. It's refreshing when people are realistic, impartial and open-minded.
On a different note, I very much like your painting 'Friends'. With best wishes, --
Mahboubian
19:04, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
I sure that the unsigned edit was in good faith. One really wants to ecourage people to edit, even if their first edits are not always to the point. I like the "Friends" painting as well. I really enjoy your work.
On another tack... can you believe that there no article on Italian Renaissance painting? There are now two. Part B is called Italian Renaissance painting, development of themes, but you might like to suggest a better name. -- Amandajm 00:18, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
Bravo! I've made minor edits there. JNW 15:08, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
-- Amandajm 15:54, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
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The Original Barnstar | |
For exceptional tact and patience in dealing with others, and for innumerable improvements in the fine arts articles. Ewulp 03:11, 5 June 2007 (UTC) |
Many thanks! Hope the painting is going well, Johnbod 18:13, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
Thanks JNW! Coming from an editor and artist I so respect makes it all the more meaningful. Ewulp 03:09, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
JNW, you've done a great job with fixing things! As for the Last Judgment article...Yeah, I noticed. I don't know why it looks so bad to me. It just does! Given the number of words that I manage to spell wrongly, you'd think I'd hardly notice! I need a spell fixer permanently in tow. I didn't mean to be rude to you!
Thanks again! It's good to feel appreciated. I probably ought to be out there teaching but it's not the way things have worked out. I was just cruising around.. noticed Monet's haystacks on your list. There seems to me to be an intrinsic problem with that page... a misunderstanding about the nature of a haystack. I suppoose i'd better leave a message on the page.. bye! -- Amandajm 14:36, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
Hi - hope you're enjoying the break. I'm passing on a request to check out canvas - I've added a bit ,but you will know more. Johnbod 17:39, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
I forgot one word in my edit summary, "previous text was in no way a summary of this article". I think the lead should speak about Rembrandt, not about the Dutch Golden Age. Do you agree the sentence I just removed should indeed be omitted? – Ilse @ 14:39, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
The peer review at Wikipedia:Peer review/Haystacks (Monet)/archive1 closed without much commentary. I posted the article for WP:GAC. However, the article then received an automated review after I nominated it at WP:GAC. We have some things to look at as far as improving the article based on the automated feedback. TonyTheTiger ( t/ c/ bio/ tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 14:30, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
Any thoughts on the 2nd WP:GA failure. It seems readily fixable from the tone and tenor of the review. I will get to it soon. Help would be appreciated. -- TonyTheTiger ( t/ c/ bio/ tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 18:12, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
I have not responded to this, Tony, only because I kind of ran out of gas on this for now. If I can make a positive contribution to this in the future, I will. Many thanks, JNW 17:38, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
Just dropped by your page and looked at Adriane again, Geez I like that painting! I've just done an overhaul of Romanesque architecture. -- Amandajm 17:36, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
Your reworking of Chardin is terrific and long overdue. Although whats with this sentence? - Chardin entered into a marriage contract with Marguerite Saintard in 1723, whom he did not marry is son Jean-Pierre was baptized, and a daughter, Marguerite-Agnès, was baptized in 1733. Strange domestic life I guess. Anyway its looking good. Congrats Modernist 22:43, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
Hi
I'd avoid the use of superlatives unless they are factual, e.g. Mt. Everest is the tallest mountain in the world, Bill Gates is according to Fortune's 2006 survey the wealthiest individual in the wold, etc. When you say Chardin is the greatest master of the still life (a statement with which I personally agree, though I'm no expert) you're expressing, or relating, a subjective opinion. What is factual is that he was a master of the still life and had influence on contemporary and later painters which is today appreciated. Who's to say what will happen to his work in 20 or 100 years?
In music Bach had to be rediscovered because he'd been more or less forgotten with 20 years of his passing. Mozart was one of his fans, but this was definitely an expert opinion on what was then an obscure dead composer. Opinions wax and wane... Vincent 07:54, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
Is he a mate? It's wierd we're both editing him tonight, or did you spot one of my "Artist aouthors" adds? I'm trying to declutter the Visual arts categories. Johnbod 03:20, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
It's a great name - which he lives up to by the photo! Johnbod 03:25, 16 July 2007 (UTC) - No - no photo; thinking of Spike, is it? Johnbod 03:27, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
-I was thinking of John Spike, another stray sheep category-wise, though actually on looking again at his photo I'm in no position .... Johnbod 03:31, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
-very different! Good portrait, with the "bonus tracks" behind Johnbod 03:37, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for your message. Please have at the Calder images, and try to place them. I'm actually working today on real life stuff. I'm not a big Robert Hughes fan and his comment about Chardin was a bit too pushy I thought, but as the Chardin show at the Met demonstrated he was a great still life painter, an interesting and good printmaker and definitely more modern than most of his contemporaries. I like Watteau a lot and there are some great Fragonard's at the Frick, but Chardin has a reality to him that still resonates, maybe because he painted ordinary people doing ordinary things. Modernist 14:31, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
Hello JNW,
On July 18, 2007 you removed external links to a private gallery from the following articles:
(diff) (hist) . . Rockwell Kent; 23:03 . . (-111) . . JNW (Talk | contribs) (rv private gallery link)
(diff) (hist) . . Maurice Prendergast; 23:02 . . (-15) . . JNW (Talk | contribs) (rv commer)
(diff) (hist) . . Childe Hassam; 22:59 . . (-194) . . JNW (Talk | contribs) (→External links - rv two links to private galleries)
(diff) (hist) . . William Merritt Chase; 22:43 . . (-109) . . JNW (Talk | contribs) (→External links - rv commercial link; bio links already here)
(diff) (hist) . . Charles E. Burchfield; 22:42 . . (-114) . . JNW (Talk | contribs) (rv gallery link; other bio links here already)
(diff) (hist) . . Winslow Homer; 22:38 . . (+7) . . JNW (Talk | contribs) (rv link to commercial gallery, replaced with museum bio)
I felt the links to this gallery had pertinent information and visuals related to these artists. External links can sometimes walk a fine line between being viable and violating Wikipedia policy. I think other external links in these articles should have been reviewed for removal as well, because they too walk that fine line of violating Wikipedia policy.
On the [Rockwell Kent] page both the Rockwell Kent Artwork Examples on AskART and Photos of the Random House edition of Moby Dick Illustrated by Rockwell Kent links should have been considered for removal. AskArt.com is a major dealer resource for buying and selling of art online. And the link to the Moby Dick book has numerous links to other book buying websites. Wouldn't it be more appropriate to have the ISBN number listed as stated in the Wikipedia guidelines for the book link?
In the both the [William Merritt Chase] and [Childe Hassam] articles there are links to Artcyclopedia.com Both sites display numerous links to dealer sites.
Again, the same goes for the AskArt.com links found in both the [Charles Burchfield] and [Winslow Homer] articles.
Often, I see external links removed form articles and not others when they too may warrant removal. I would just like to see more attention paid to this issue.
Thank you for taking the time to update and maintain these articles. At times, it's not an easy job and is much appreciated. Alp1776 14:49, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for your message. I don't claim to be an exhaustive editor when it comes to deleting external sites that I think are not appropriate links--often it's the most recent changes that catch my eye, as was the case here. Often these links were added to articles which already linked to other biographies, so these extra links look superfluous. And when added en masse, it gives the appearance, justified or not, that a web site, in this case for a commercial entity (which happens to sell very fine artwork), is being plugged. In several cases I replaced the commercial links with biographical entries from museum sites, where a product is not quite so obviously being sold, all of which I noted in the edit summaries. Finally, I think it says somewhere in WP:EL that arguing that the presence of other questionable links is beside the point--if you think they don't belong, please revert them, too. If the biography can use a good scholarly link, please add one from a non-commercial source. I'd be grateful. JNW 23:48, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
Hi JNW, In regards to your comment on Talk:Self-portrait - Yeah, I was surprised the other day when I found this - Talk:Self-portrait/Autoportrait,from the French, I've been doing a lot of work on Self Portrait for several months off and on, and I discovered the other article accidently a few days ago by surprise. Inadvertantly since it was different in so many ways from the other article I mistakenly moved it from Talk:Self-portrait/Autoportrait,from the French to an article page now called Self-portrait/Autoportrait. Clearly the two articles are related but different. Now I've been editing both. I think Self Portrait is superior but I'm interested in creating the two related but different articles at this point. Frankly I wish Self-portrait/Autoportrait had a talk page, but I'm at a loss as to how to make a talk page on it, I've tried but it doesn't seem to work. - Modernist 04:17, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
Now sorted. Johnbod 10:38, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
Actually, the new article is better -- still horribly written, but it now asserts notability and doesn't include contact information. I am going to put an unsourced tag on it, though.
NawlinWiki 02:38, 3 August 2007 (UTC) Oops, you're right, missed the Rembrandt stuff. Now deleted.
NawlinWiki
02:41, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
Well the only meat is the contemporary US stuff - it is a very poor stub otherwise (or either way). I didn't change the redirect, so "figurative art" will still take you there. Move it back by all means if you like, but until it covers the wider subject much better I don't think I'm inclined to myself. I've come across Dana Levin promoting herself very persistently elsewhere & admit I thought it easiest to shunt her onto a siding; if removed she will certainly add herself back. Johnbod 19:21, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
Nice work. [3] Tyrenius 01:52, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
I like the idea of you starting a new article about 20th century figurative art. Covering the bases from Matisse, Picasso, Chagall, Modigliani to Avery, Graham, Gorky, De Kooning, Pollock (1951-1953), Wyeth, Freud, Bacon, Auerbach, to Park, Diebenkorn, Neri, Bischoff, to Pop Art, Porter, Katz, Red Grooms, to Clemente, Fischl, and the Art Student League types. Give it a go. I think its timely. Modernist 22:41, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
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The Mighty Defender of the Wiki Barnstar | |
I'm awarding you this prestigious Defender of the Wiki Barnstar because you have gone above and beyond to prevent Wikipedia from being used for fraudulent purposes. Wikidudeman (talk) 14:36, 21 August 2007 (UTC) |
I was just looking up the answer in Wikipedia guide and while it seems the preferred setting is the former, likely with a clarification as to Valencia, Spain; it accepts the latter when the provenance would be commonly recognized (ie Bostonians as opposed to People from Boston). I looked up the Valencian People category and it has far more than the former, so I will change my entries to favor popuplar majority. thanks. CARAVAGGISTI 22:39, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
DA-DA !!! Thanks - Still accelerating back down the slip road of the WP autoroute so far, but will no doubt reach the usual excessive speed soon! Johnbod 19:28, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
That's a delete. Wikipedia's license allows reuse for any purpose, not just educational, so we'd be trying to give away more rights than they granted to us. — Celithemis 23:57, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
Any chance of giving this a once-over? I've added stuff that was needed on modelling chiaroscuro rather than the big bad Caravaggio sort. Also if you have any good references covering these two uses of the term clearly, that would be very handy. Thanks!
I've sorted the Self portrait/Autoportrait talk page out (from above). Johnbod 10:43, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
Thanks - That was the way I thought about chiaroscuro too, & is clearly how it is now normally used. But after I did the article over the first time, I kept coming across the modelling use in art history. I haven't seen Grove on it (in theory I can access at home via my local library, in practice it very rarely works - supposedly my Norton security interferes) but all the other reference works I have seen don't handle the various meanings very well imho. I had a quick look at Delacroix, which looked good - it's alarming how many big names need a makeover. Johnbod 14:32, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
I'd had a quick look - the main problem it seems to me is that the first sections are talking about Art as in "the arts", & the rest of the article is mostly about visual art (as I think it should be). Its all awfully woolly, & I'll see what I can do, but then I've never got beyond p12 of Richard Wollheim's opus. Johnbod 15:18, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
This is a muddled area. I think the former is the correct form unless the latter is a more commonplace usage (New Yorkers, for example). I honestly didn't have the energy to look and see how big the valencian people category was, but I will make merge them in the near future. Thanks for the edits. CARAVAGGISTI 22:41, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
Thank you, what a terrific surprise, most appreciated. Modernist 03:40, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
Indeed - I nearly quoted in the article a cutting footnote (same ref as bit I did quote) by Rosand saying that really most books on Giorgione should have the same title as one Italian article in the literature: "Il mio Giorgione"! You can certainly hear the knives being sharpened in some of the literature. Do we allow Daumier off-days? His output was so prodigious maybe we should. I don't usually take strong stands - as an artist I think you are equipped to judge in ways I'm not. Johnbod 15:13, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
I have same problem. Not a clue why it's happening. Try Wikipedia:Village pump (technical). Tyrenius 06:42, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
Hello JNW, I just wanted to say thank you for reverting the edits by User:194.164.236.17 today. This anon IP seems to only add edits about Will Tether. Makes me wonder if it is a fan or a publicist. I wanted to let you know that I added a warning to their talk page. This editor may warrant blocking one day and I have noticed that admins are loath to do this unless they have been warned about their behavior. Also, they may not know that they can become an editor who can contribute positively until they know what they are doing wrong (though I don't think that is they case here). If you encounter these edits again you may want to consider adding new warnings to their page (see WP:WARN), but, please don't feel that you have to do this. I am only mentioning it as a suggestion. Thanks for your time and happy editing. MarnetteD | Talk 00:12, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi. Could you help figure out what happened to this picture of a French impressionist painting? Image:Camille.jpg. -- 71.191.36.194 03:23, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
You reported 216.114.182.34 ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) at WP:AIV, but since the last vandalism was about 10 or 11 hours ago, I don't think the IP address poses a current threat. I was going to remove the report, but Husond beat me to it. If the vandal returns tomorrow, feel free to make a new report at WP:AIV where someone can intercept the vandalism as it's happening. Thanks. -- Elkman (Elkspeak) 02:07, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
I have just bitten the bullet and put half a dozen articles up for Featured Article review. including Romanesque architecture, Gothic architecture, Renaissance architecture and Italian Renaissance painting. If you would like to add your twopence worth as to whether they are among the best articles on wiki, then please do! Amandajm 09:18, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
Hola,
Sir Francis Drake's Spanish nickname was El Draque (not El Dragón). Please look it up.
Draque is old Spanish from the Latin draco. The old English "drake" and modern usage "dragon" are the same as the old Spanish "draque" and modern "dragón".
cheers, Gibbonsez —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gibbonsez ( talk • contribs) 05:26, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
El Draque
easy to check sources are:
Sir Walter Raleigh: Being a True and Vivid Account of the Life and Times of ... By Raleigh Trevelyan (available on Google Books)
The Literary World By Samuel R. Crocker, Edward Abbott, Nicholas Paine Gilman, Madeline Vaughan Abbott Bushnell, Bliss Carman, Herbert Copeland p54 (available on Google Books)
Oceana, Or, England and Her Colonies By James Anthony Froude p 32 (available on Google Books)
http://findesemana.libertaddigital.com/articulo.php/1276231817
http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/sir_francis_drake.htm
http://www.xroyvision.com.au/drake/history/drum1.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cacafuego
http://www.mojitocompany.com/pages.php?pageid=4
http://www.global-travel.co.uk/drake.htm
http://www.wandea.org.pl/drake.htm
http://www.enchantedlearning.com/explorers/page/d/drake.shtml
http://goofy313g.free.fr/calisota_online/exist/drake.html
Btw, google "El Dragòn" with "Drake", you will see that the few references to this version of the Drake nickname seem to source back to the uncorrected Wikipedia article, sadly including an eBay listing for 1722 edition of Drake's Voyages which clearly prefaces the quote with "According to Wikipedia". Even running a Google search with these terms turns up more hits which reflect the correct "El Draque" nickname. Of course, if you search "El Draque" and "Drake" you will find many, many uses of the correct nickname.
cheers, Gibbonsez —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gibbonsez ( talk • contribs) 06:02, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
No, I didn't have a conflict. Keep going, but let me know when you're done & I'll add touches if still on. Johnbod 02:30, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
Yes, that editor is determined to promote this "movement" and the artist attached to it. No sources though, which creates a few problems. I'm sure the PROD will be removed, so the article may need to go to speedy or AfD. I'm offline for the rest of the weekend (Canadian Thanksgiving/vacation from wiki), so you may need to take it to the next step if necessary. Cheers. Freshacconci | Talk 14:31, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
We are on the borderline with Haystacks (Monet). The fourth attempt has gotten to a hold status. We have another 5 days to meet all their demands. Do you still have access to the Tucker text? A {{ fact}} tag was place on a sentence. The subsequent sentence has a Tucker footnote on it. I am unsure if Tucker applies to both sentences. Come by and help out with the editorial changes if you have some time.-- TonyTheTiger ( t/ c/ bio/ tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 16:42, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
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The Chicago Barnstar | |
This award is for the patience, diligence, excellence and originality with which you have helped a Chicagoan cover up for his lack of expertise on art that is important to his city. TonyTheTiger ( t/ c/ bio/ tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 18:15, 9 October 2007 (UTC) |
I've added 5 images, at least 3 of which are new and unique. Please lend your expert opinion on whether all 5 are new.-- TonyTheTiger ( t/ c/ bio/ tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 20:10, 9 October 2007 (UTC) I will remove all of the 1890 harvest images. You can always revert any of them.-- TonyTheTiger ( t/ c/ bio/ tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 20:34, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
Congratulations, well deserved barnstar. Modernist 22:39, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for your editorial efforts. I would still be banging my head against the wall without you. You may want to display this somewhere.
![]() | This user helped promote Haystacks (Monet) to good article status. |
-- TonyTheTiger ( t/ c/ bio/ tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 14:29, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
Thanks on CC - it came out nicely I think. I only did a little revert, as you probably saw, & haven't checked what's left of our previous reverts! It needs a good going over when the storm passes... Cheers, Johnbod 18:03, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
You're welcome. :) · AndonicO Talk 11:42, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
I'm inclined to agree with you. Aside from WP:COI, there's a whole list of issues that spring to mind. How to decide on something so arbitrary (who gets to have work used to illustrate an article)? How would we control the deluge of artists posting their work for self-promotion? What about quality: is anything game? Who decides what's "good enough" for Wikipedia? I think WP:COI covers it well as a policy and deleting images like that when we encounter them is justified. This particular instance seems to have been settled by Modernist (the artist has asked that his drawings be taken off Wiki Commons). Freshacconci | Talk 16:19, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
I feel much the same, as to the subjectivity of such decisions, as well as my own ability to make such judgments. Still, it would be tempting for me to use what I think are extraordinary drawings by my friends, colleagues, or even those whose work most closely corresponds to my own tastes, which defines too narrow a spectrum, and runs close to COI. Fuller disclosure: I have painted commissioned portraits, from life, of notables with Wikipedia articles, and have, in weak moments, thought about including one of my paintings in a subject's biography, but this would, naturally, be a COI. It would even raise real questions should another party (the subject, their institution, or one of my business agents) do the same, even for an established portrait artist, for purposes which could easily be construed as promotional.
Not that it could not be done, and with good results, but tricky. JNW 02:33, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
You're welcome for my protection of that article. :) Acalamari 01:54, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, Image:JENNIFER.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Nv8200p talk 15:34, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
Check out User talk:141.219.44.104. The edits from anons beginning 141.219.44 are from Michigan Technological University. If there is vandalism, give the usual warnings, which can then lead to a block. Tyrenius 16:08, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
Hi Sparkit. Miss your contributions. Hope you are well. Best wishes, JNW 04:38, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
Ooh, when was that? Sounds out of character! Very sorry to see you're not well - hope you recover soon. Johnbod 23:33, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
I'm sorry to hear you are not well! Hope you are soon your old self!
Re Leo's handedness, that is a good article. Would you contribute a paragraph, calling it whatever you think appropriate? When you feel up to it.... Amandajm 02:48, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
Well spotted! I've added the {{Hoax}} tag to the Kenneth Hari article. If you're interested why, see here and here. Xn4 04:43, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
Oh we are having a little conflict over Neutrality [4]. You might feel inclined to put your twopence in! ... Amandajm ( talk) 10:09, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
You have recently tagged my Sivkov article. You also claim that we've been through this before. You'll have to forgive me, but I do not recall ever having discussed anything with you. That said: yes, I agree that the article would do better with more references (that is currently underway). I do, however, disagree with referring to the tone used as peacocked. I have an MA in cultural history from the University of Florida. I am aware of the vernacular used in scholastic art reviews, studies and literature. It does appear to me that you enjoy studying art. However, there is a great difference between the academic research and amateur writing. With respect; if you have any helpful hints, let me know.
DebrayR ( talk) 21:55, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
I agree with you that the language used is colourful. I have taken the time to read some of your contributions to wikipedia. And, the difference is that your work focuses on the biographical aspect of the artists' lives, and not a critical description of the artists' oeuvre. Nevertheless, I agree that more references would benefit the Sivkov article.
respectfully, DebrayR ( talk) 16:35, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
Personally, I am aware of no precedents for including references to illustrators of works in the biography of the author. Such content could reasonably I think be added to the content in the bio of the illustrator, but from what little I know the author doesn't necessarily choose the illustrator, so there's not necessarily any real connection between the author per se and the illustrator. Having said all that, inclusion of such info in the articles on the books themselves makes perfect sense, and if it can be established that there was a degree of personal contact between an author and an illustrator, that could be referenced in the article too. But personally I can't see justifying the existing section in the article in question. I'll make similar contents on the talk page if you so request, but I'm kinda new to the biography project so I can't cite previous cases as well as I might like. John Carter ( talk) 22:20, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Thanks for your generous comment. I hope you will be able to contribute to some of the art articles here - which are often sorely in need of attention! Editors with a sentitivity to painting are sorely needed. Paul B 11:38, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
Very kind of you to say. You'll see from my user page that I have a great respect and admiration for the pioneers who made this field happen. As soon as I get a chance I'll be expanding your dad's bio; the Alter Ego interview is so long it's been daunting me, but I've been wanting to glean info from it. I'll let you know when I do.
Glad to see you've registered, and here are a few good links for newcomers:
Happy Wiki-ing! -- Tenebrae 13:57, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
Happy Wiki-ing!
Hi, I'm glad that you were impressed with Wikipedia after hearing reading about it in the New Yorker--I just wanted to take a moment to welcome you, as Tenebrae also did, and encourage you to stay and be part of the community. You seem to be a very good writer, and so I'm sure you will find some very interesting and very satisfying projects to work on. If you have any questions, feel free to ask. Happy editing ! AdamBiswanger1 14:21, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
No problem - sometimes you catch them - sometimes you don't - enjoy life -- Nigel ( Talk) 07:24, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
In [1] this edit you removed an important source, as well as inserted POV and original research, both of which are prohibited under Wikipedia policy. Please note that the metapsychiatry.org website does not currently have any content. Captainktainer * Talk 02:04, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
Me again - funny how most analysis of ingres are fairly dry, espc. considering how rich and suggestive a painter he was. I'd like to do some work on this article fairly soon, but anyway, keep up the good work you're doing Coil00 02:09, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
Probably most viewers don't get past the polish and control of his surfaces, which don't exactly inspire florid prose. Yet he was a tremendous draftsman and portraitist--the painting of Bertin, a grumpy toad, is one of my favorite portraits of the 19th century.
You keep up the good work, too. JNW 03:00, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
Wow, that edit feels like it was a long time ago... Basically, disambiguation notices are helpful when two topics have the same or a similar name, so they should always be used whenever remotely appropriate. As for the mention in popular culture, in general pop culture sections should have more that one entry, so it's okay to have the Arrested Development show listed twice on that article for style reasons. Also, a lot of people never actually see the disambiguation notice, especially when they immediately find what they're looking for, so a second writeup could be helpful. If more pop culture references turn up, though, if it ever comes time to trim the pop culture section, go ahead and strip it out. Captainktainer * Talk 13:24, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
Just came across this: Bertin, the grumpy gorilla! - Coil00 21:23, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
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The Editor's Barnstar | |
For diligence in removing spam links, redundancies, and other unnecessary accretions from artists' biographies, I award you this Editor's Barnstar. —Cel ithemis 00:26, 29 October 2006 (UTC) |
I would prefer to email you about this if you don't mind. Thanks for having the good grace of openly admitting I might have had a point; I admire that and you have been extremely civil about my comments, which again is most creditable; I'm sorry if I seemed rude it was not my intention. However, the 2 users who have 'weighed in' in your favour, well one has a history of only doing deletions of bad wiki articles, as far as I can tell, and fair enough, and the other has spent the last 2 motnhs editing an article about Cannabis. Neither know a great deal about art! Frankly that impresses me very little. In other words, reagrdless of what they say, I am not impressed by their wiki track record of adding good stuff and by comparison I can see that you and me have certainly been very active in adding good stuff to this site. Therefore, I would suggest it's down to you and me to sort this matter out. Maybe you will be happy to remove the worst links and leave at that? I would accept that proposal. It is a pity links cannot be amalgamated into a sub-page...But just let me know when you have made your mind up...I hope this is an acceptable solution. best regards Peter morrell 18:42, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
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The Barnstar of High Culture | |
For your excellent recent flexibility, civility, editing work and humble team-manship which is much appreciated Peter morrell 21:46, 31 October 2006 (UTC) |
Many thanks for your comment! Johnbod 03:35, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
I am just starting a new page. You seem to be knowledgeable on art of the late 19th century. You are welcome to make any revisions on my Haystacks (Monet) page. I have a long way to go. I was wondering if there is a category for Series Paintings. This is my second Series ( Campbell's Soup Cans). I am also wondering if the term series is a serious enough art term to deserve mention on the Series dab page. I am an art hack who has never studied formally. I have never painted. I attend about 3-5 exhibits a year though. TonyTheTiger 18:46, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
You are certainly welcome to make any collaborative changes you feel are proper and necessary. In addition to being untrained, I am now distracted by my newfound wikitemplate making skill. I will probably spend a little time each day with Haystacks, but it will be a slow work in progress. When you look at the code on the edit page you will find each title contains all the info the source webpage attached to the photo. I have found some titles with distinct photos and am becoming confused on whether I am confused or some other webmasters are confusing photos. I have to get some authoritive books. My Library has several Tucker books. If you go to www.chipublib.org. >> search our catalogue >> advance search option >> put "Paul Hayes Tucker" in the Author keyword and type search you will see my choices. Do you know which of these I should be asking for. I will place a hold if you can give me further direction and have it forwarded to my local branch, The ( Blackstone Library). TonyTheTiger 16:53, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
So far I have only found Monet texts that were at my local Borders. I sat down for an hour or 2 with them and gleaned some knowledge that is on my current article. P.S. If you know where I can find a complete set of the 25 1890 Harvest Haystack images that are properly labelled that would be of great assistance. Also, I probably want to add the 5 1888 Harvest Haystacks and their images. TonyTheTiger 01:55, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the nice compliment on the Degas article. And it's only right to commend you right back--I've noticed your edits over the last few months and you've raised the quality of everything you've worked on. WP art-related articles in general have come a long way in the last year (with some conspicuous laggards--the Picasso article barely mentions his work!) Ewulp 04:24, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
Thank you! That brightened my day :) —Cel ithemis 07:49, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
Many museums attribute all sorts of trash to Giorgione. Usually it is their wishful thinking which is not generally shared by the scholarly community. You may search for Giorgione on the website of the Hermitage Museum if you want examples. With portraits, the problem is even more more complicated. Nobody can be sure whether a high-quality Venetian portrait from the 1510s was painted by Titian, Giorgione, Lotto, or perhaps Sebastiano del Piombo. Furthermore, I'm not aware of Venetian self-portraits before Titian. -- Ghirla -трёп- 17:58, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
Johnbod 04:34, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for adding the reference to Rodin and working on the article. I'm being fussy (and you're welcome to be also) because I'm maybe building toward a featured article attempt. Any help you can provide, especially on the "big-picture" aspects of Rodin (influences, influence, style) would be great. But I see you're on a break. Hope it's not related to this article... – Outriggr § 05:01, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
Try a force-reload of the page -- shift-F5 or ctrl-F5, depending on your browser. I restored the correct image, but the Monet portrait may still be stuck in your browser's cache. —Cel ithemis 05:09, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for helping cleanup Haystacks (Monet). I have just begun learning about peer review, good articles, and featured articles. My first feedback has taught me that I am eventually going to have to reaquire all my sources and properly cite them inline in many of my articles. I have begun overhauling my other series article ( Campbell's Soup Cans). If you get a chance, you may want to use inline citations like I have begun to do there. I am not sure if things are in the proper format there, but most FAs seem to use a method similar to this. If you still have the source you added it would be great if you could cite the information from it properly. In the future I plan to add the following to the code for the article: TonyTheTiger 16:54, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
03:18, 3 January 2007 JNW (Talk | contribs) (rv spam links out the waz (sp?); many replete with advertsing, some selling products, some inexpert blogs, and some theorists--and more should probably go, too.)
Please advise why? This website is a collection of articles about 'Great Italians' and does not offer any advertising or selling of products. Wikipedia currently links to several other pages within this website.
Thank you for improving the article, c.q my English. A dutchman Taksen 10:55, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
I added a some at Saskia van Uylenburg, may be you can check my dutch, and perhaps we can cooperate in the future. Taksen 22:46, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
I am asthonished you did not move the information to Rembrandt. Besides, I think, the article on Rembrandt is way too long, and my information was quite informative. I did not want to start new articles on Titus or Hendrickje, but now i have. I am sad you did not appriciate my extensions Taksen 18:03, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
I agree not all the information was not Saskia, but as i said before, the article on Rembrandt is very long. I got almost a headache, when reading it, too much information, not easy to digest. So I tried to tell something about Rembrandt through Saskia. It is a lot of work to start new lemma's on Hendrickje, Geertje and Titus. I was trying to be efficient. Besides, tell me who your friends are, I will tell you who you are, dont you agree? Taksen 18:24, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
Citing Britannica should be fine. In an ideal world, everything would be cited directly to scholarly sources rather than to an encyclopedia, but short of the Featured Article Candidates process, I doubt anyone's going to complain about it unless it conflicts with other sources. It's a good place to start. —Cel ithemis 04:49, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
Molto piacere! Haiduc 23:16, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
Hi, since you're about, any thoughts on this? No one ever seems to visit the page, but things are beginning to stir there. Johnbod 02:34, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
are you doing any more? We have an edit conflict. I can finish after i've got my guys back on. cheers Johnbod 01:00, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
No problem - my fault for leaving an edit open for a hour or so when I knew you were around! All ok now. I find I'm adding a lot of minor names, when I know lots of major ones aren't in the printmaking categories - so your contributions are very helpful. I'm done now, so if you were going to, please carry on Johnbod 01:09, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
Nice job on Veronese, and much-needed. Last time I checked (January) there was almost nothing there. Today I was flipping through Paintings in the Louvre & thought of adding L. Gowing's remarks about the artist to the article--you got there ahead of me! Ewulp 09:20, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the revert on Belle Époque. To give some heft to the article, I have substanially re-written it. The subject matter is very much the same. (The revert wasn't in vain!) But I think that the organization and flow of the article is now better. I think the article conveys the sense that this was Europe-wide phenomenon with clearly definable characteristics (general political stability, increasing class-based identities, tremendous technological/scientific advances leading to modern life as we know it, creation of what we recognize as modern artistic forms). Also, the body of the article now reflects the three main topics that were presented in the introductory paragraph(s), namely politics, science, and art. I hope that it won't be continually vandalized. Poldy Bloom 05:39, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for your edits. I'm afraid I was much more ruthless than you. But I have left a mention and an expanded footnote.
-- Amandajm 14:05, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
Hi! I just noticed my name in your kudos section. :) Thanks! You obviously care for the work you do on wikipedia, too. --sparkit TALK 16:26, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for the thank you, and good work on John Singer. He would profit from further expansion of content (I'd like to flesh it out more one day), yet given the outline, headings, image links, and cites, he might merit a 'B' rating now. What do you think? JNW 21:24, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
PS--I always enjoy the rotating images on your user page. JNW 21:26, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
You can see from my last note how a list can grow: you asked about landscapes, and I went off about other subjects as well...the result of enthusiasm. And yes, I think you have made it a most representative sample. Good work.
I believe The Chess Game was sold to a private party, for an undisclosed but vigorous price. The HCNY still owns a batch of Sargent portraits. JNW 15:40, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for your comments! Yes, I'm very interested in the way that Michelangelo depicted God. "Awesome!", as my evangelical nephew would say.
The only things that I know of that come anywhere near the power of the "image" that Michelangelo gave God are the Christ Pantocrator at Daphni, the hypnotic God in the Baptistry at Padua by Giusto da Menabuoi and that huge figure which might be by Cimabue in the Baptistry at Florence. There's not a lot of space there, so it looms over you in a terrifying manner with no room for escape. There's a good one at Monreale as well but more gentle. Does one draw a distinction between the persons of the Trinity? I'd like to read your paper. Was it published?
Also, what a great portrait that is on your User Page! Well done. How about a self portrait as well?
-- Amandajm 10:31, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
The final (First day of Creation) image is surely Michelangelo himself, working on the ceiling in the supreme act of creation. I found a website the other day that supported this vview, but I've lost it. The beard is shorter, the face is almost hidden, the figure is workingg aboovve his head.
As for God creating the Earth, Sun and Moon, the wrathful God has mmuch in common with the Moses for Pope Julius' tomb. It has been said before that Michelangelo represented the Pope as God. Well, iif so, it's an image more in keeping with thhe man who said "Show me with a sword; I know nothing of books!"
As for the creationn of Adam, there's much more of a benvolence in that picture. I've always loved the hand of God which is so square and capabable but hhas delicate fingertips. Its the hand of a man who not only pounded the clay and modelled it to make the man but who also wired the circuits of his brain.
There's been a study done on Michelangelo's David which indicates that he was almost certainly a stone mason. Several of the models on the ceiling have similar characteristics. What we see in the forearm of Michelangelo's God is the massive development consistent with using a hammer and chisel, in particular the bulge just near the wrist which is the abductor pollicus longus which brings the hand forward in relation to the forearm and is used when hammering in a controlled way (cobbler's tacks as against six inch nails). I'm sure we are looking at Michelangelo's own arm here. But I can't really say this, can I? I'm sure it falls under the category of original research!
Well perhaps I'll give this an airing on the comments page and see what comments it brings. I'll also track down some of the other images of God for you. In quite a lot of late Medieval/Early Renaissance images there is no distinction between God the Creator and God Incarnate so that when God is shown in the Creation stories, he looks just like Jesus in the Redemption episodes, the only difference being that he is often given a triangular halo as against Jesus' triple-rayed halo which symbolises the cross as well as the Trinity. God appears like this in the frescoes at San Gimigniano. There is another picture of the Trinity somewhere... I think a Jesuit statement...which shows the triune God as three identical Jesus-persons all enthroned side-by-side. Rather intimidating...I'd hate to get up there and have the three of them arguing over where to send me. I wonder if there's a wikipage devoted to depictions of God.
-- Amandajm 02:13, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
Interesting! I just took a look at the Doni Tondo. There IS a link with the Lybian Sibyl. They are both quite extraordinarily dynamic and daring images. The Blessed Virgin even shows her armpit. I also checked out God dividing the waters from the heavens. You're right.
My observation of the frescoes (from books) indicates that some of the prophetic fgures were squared up, indicating that he enlarged from drawings. In other figures there are very clear stiletto marks indicating that he used full-sized cartoons. In other figures there are neither, and the outlines have either been scraped into the surface or just painted on in colour.
Why have you never been to see the originals? You really ought, if it is possible for you. It's quite mind-blowing, even if, like me, you think that the "restoration" went too far altogether. What country do you live in? -- Amandajm 16:06, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
Nice job removing Koppelaar's and others' self-promotional images on the various pages they appeared. Very professional, replacing and not just deleting them. I had also come across some in the articles for Cat and Lion, but they seem to have been cleaned up since I noticed them. Adamflorin 22:19, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
Thank you. In some cases, as in the one you mentioned, the artwork is quite good, but it is really embarrassing to load, or have someone else insert, one's images throughout the articles on painting (ditto the formulation of vanity articles, which just look cheesy), especially when wikimedia offers a plentiful stock of masters' works. JNW 02:08, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
User talk:The Anonymous One#final warning on disruptive editing. Let me know if there are any further problems. If I'm not around to answer, make a report at WP:AIV and link to that final warning. Thank you, — coel acan — 06:23, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Well done! I'm not finished there yet. Maybbe you could drop back there in a few days and refine my language again. I think the problem is, I've been writing for Simple English Wikipedia which employs mainly words of one syllable! My vocabulary has desserted me. -- Amandajm 10:09, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
This was a list but has now been hugely expanded by a few editors; some of it may be cut & pasted from other articles, I'm not sure. Much of it is repeated at a new Western painting. The coverage & quality seem pretty variable to me. As these are I suppose flagship articles, people may like to help out. Johnbod 02:33, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
I've copied you this as i don't know if you see the VA project discussion page - maybe time to sign up btw, duties are light! cheers Johnbod 02:54, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
Please weigh in on a building edit conflict at Western painting, thanks Modernist 14:46, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for reporting 66.158.93.101 to WP:AIV, however I see that they have not received any recent warnings. IP users generally must have received a recent warning because IPs can be reassigned and the current user may not be the same as the one who vandalized in the past. —dgies t c 21:35, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
Once again they are trying to delete images on Western painting. They've asked for opinions on Wikipedia talk:Non-free content. I hope you can weigh in. Thanks. Modernist 21:34, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
I have been up to my ears busy at work, and have not had the proper time to read the guidelines on the use of images, but they seem to be open to various interpretations. My general take is that in the past I have eschewed the use of too many images in biographies, but I can see their value in the context of an overview like this one, especially in trying to illustrate the dizzying array of 20th century art movements. Until I can offer a more informed comment, my input is of little help, other than to say that you have done a terrific job with this article. JNW 03:13, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
if you could kick the hard stuff just like that! Cheers, Johnbod 13:12, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
You really do a valiant job!
-- Amandajm 11:08, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
Perhaps you could take a quick look at this quick effort. As usual I have rather run out of puff after Tiepolo, & have no practical knowledge! Cheers, Johnbod 03:50, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
Hi. It seems that you have had some trouble with 216.54.173.2 on articles too. Are you an admin? If so, he's also vandalized the Sandman (Marvel Comics) article recently. Nightscream 22:51, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
You may see that I have renominated Haystacks (Monet) for WP:GAC unsuccessfully. Although the statistics might say otherwise, I almost consider you the main editor of the article at this point. You have masterfully cleaned it up. Can you help me find the missing quotes so we can get this a good article rating? You seem like the kind of guy who might have the necessary books in his possession. TonyTheTiger ( talk/ cont/ bio/ tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 00:47, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for the heads up. I will see if I can be of any help. JNW 12:58, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
One to match your Vermeer/Van Meergheran (or whatever) article comparison - have you ever seen a fuller article on a single painting than this? Johnbod 01:37, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
As you did here and here. Thank you. ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihon joe 20:23, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
I appreciate your point of view, as well as the unsolicited opinions of several contributors here [2]. Even (or especially) when I'm sure I'm right, overzealousness must be my least attractive feature. My best judgment, post dinner, is to gently wish all a good evening, and many happy reverts. JNW 03:49, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
Dear user JNW,
I noticed that you deleted my contribution to the Impressionism page, removing the information I posted about Wynford Dewhurst. You say Dewhurst was a painter/writer of no influence, but as an art historian at the University of Bristol, UK, I can assure you that the publication of Dewhurst's most important work as an author Impressionist Painting: its genesis and development in 1904 was extremely "seminal" and very influencial to British artists as it was the first book on French Impressionist to be published in English and helped to introduce many important British artists (e.g. Sickert, Philip Wilson Steer, James Whistler) to this style of painting, long before Roger Fry's 1910 exhibition. Moreover, Dewhurst was a follower of Monet and spent considerable periods of time working in France with Impressionist painters. He corresponded with Pissarro and Monet.
I believe the nature of Wikipedia is to share knowledge and to expand on existing articles to add interesting information all the time, please do not remove my post about Dewhurst again. I understand that you have removed useless and unhelpful references to other entries in other cases, like the editor who rather ridiculously added Kevin Wasden to Klimt and Degas, but as an academic who has researched Wynford Dewhurst and Impressionism (with particular attention to the emergence of Impressionism in British painting) extensively, I can tell you that Dewhurst was, in fact, an important and influencial figure in bringing Impressionism to Britain; I can assure you that my contribution was valid.
Finally, when you have listed artists representing Impressionist painting in Turkey and Egypt (!) why on earth would you deny a painter like Dewhurst to represent the movement in Britain? Outside of France, Impressionism was present more profoundly in Britain than any other nation, including America. Certainly Impressionism was more present in Britain than in Turkey or Egypt. In the matter of Impressionism in Britain Dewhurst was one of the foremost figures; although not as successful a painter as Whistler or Sickert with the Camden Town Group, as a writer he was of the utmost importance, his 1904 book was at the time the ONLY book in English about Impressionism and was therefore very influencial to British painters. I appreciate your effort if you thought that I didn't know what I was talking about, but this time please do not whimsically remove valid contributions merely because you haven't yourself heard of the subject in question (in this case Wynford Dewhurst). Please do not remove a valid contribution just because the information is beyond your understanding of the movement. Accept my apologies if I am wrong but perhaps your knowledge of Impressionism is limited to the most "famous" painters (e.g. Monet - and others who sell for millions of pounds in Christie's and Sotheby's) but you should trust art historians with university educations on Impressionism to decide who was important in spreading the movement outside France, before you dismiss important figures like Dewhurst as "minor". In bringing Impressionism to Britian, it was Dewhurst.
For your information, and just as an example of Dewhurst's importance as a writer (you say he was not seminal), consider the fact that his book Impressionist Painting presented the thesis that the French Impressionists relied on British painters John Constable and J. M. W. Turner in technique. This theory was responded to personally by the great giant of Impressionism, Pissarro. With masters like Pissarro reading and responding to Dewhurst's book, how can you dismiss his work as a writer? Considering that his book was the FIRST study of French Impressionism in the English language, how can you say he was not seminal?
If you are still hesitating, research British Impressionism first and then get back to me. Kenneth McConkey has written a couple of very good books on the subject (British Impressionism published by Phaidon (1989) and Impressionism in Britain, exhibition cat., published by Yale University Press (1995), both of which feature Dewhurst prominantly.)
Thank you -- Mahboubian 01:43, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
Dear Mahboubian,
Thank you. Your note to me was impressive for your knowledge on the subject. Initially I was dubious; I found little about Dewhurst via a google search (no other bios of much substance), believed your additions were a bit too prominent for the articles on Impressionism and Monet, and I was not taken by the quality of his work. However, and not for the first time, I have encountered a subject about which I have much to learn, and you are obviously a good and patient teacher.
I appreciate the time and effort you took to write me, and the depth of your scholarship here. I do want to read more about Dewhurst and his writing, and will look up McConkey. In the meantime, I stand corrected. Respectfully yours, JNW 03:26, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
According to McConkey, Dewhurst's book was indeed "the first important study of the French impressionists to be published in English". However, McConkey also notes that Dewhurst was anxious to maintain that French impressionism was British in conception, and that "Pissarro objected to this preposterous claim"; the phrasing here, and the citing of George Moore's opinion in the next paragraph, is such as to indicate that McConkey agrees with Pissarro.
In the case of Dewhurst's influence on the British artists you mentioned, there is reason to be skeptical, after all. The French and British were familiar with each others' works dating from the early 1800s. We know of Constable's influence on Delacroix, and of the latter's friendship with Bonington. So it is odd to suppose that English artists were unfamiliar with impressionism until 1904. In fact, the work of French impressionist painters was being written about, exhibited, and purchased by collectors in London in the 1870s (Degas, Sickert, and Toulouse-Lautrec: London and Paris 1870-1910, Tate Publishing; catalogue of a wonderful show, which I saw in London).
As for Sickert, Steer, and Whistler: by 1889 Sickert and Steer were exhibiting, along with a number of other 'London Impressionists' who were at odds with the more traditional members of New English Art Club, at the Goupil Gallery in London. By this time Sickert had long since been a protégé of both Degas and Whistler; the latter was, of course, familiar with impressionism and its practitioners decades before Dewhurst published his study (in fact, Whistler was dead before 1904). Sickert and Steer were the primary British painters in the impressionist vernacular before the turn of the century. Steer's best-known impressionist venture was Knucklebones, which was painted by 1889.
Maybe Dewhurst's role was to further popularize Monet's brand of impressionism. Certainly he merits mention for being the first to write a book on the impressionists in English (although many articles had preceded him, like an essay by the American Theodore Robinson, a first-rate painter who wrote an enthusiastic article about his mentor Monet and the other impressionists in the early 1890s). Indeed, by 1885 American painters were visiting and working alongside Monet in Giverny--how could the British have not known about all this until the 20th century? They did. JNW 18:42, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
You are a truthful and good editor and you have my respect. It's refreshing when people are realistic, impartial and open-minded.
On a different note, I very much like your painting 'Friends'. With best wishes, --
Mahboubian
19:04, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
I sure that the unsigned edit was in good faith. One really wants to ecourage people to edit, even if their first edits are not always to the point. I like the "Friends" painting as well. I really enjoy your work.
On another tack... can you believe that there no article on Italian Renaissance painting? There are now two. Part B is called Italian Renaissance painting, development of themes, but you might like to suggest a better name. -- Amandajm 00:18, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
Bravo! I've made minor edits there. JNW 15:08, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
-- Amandajm 15:54, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
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The Original Barnstar | |
For exceptional tact and patience in dealing with others, and for innumerable improvements in the fine arts articles. Ewulp 03:11, 5 June 2007 (UTC) |
Many thanks! Hope the painting is going well, Johnbod 18:13, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
Thanks JNW! Coming from an editor and artist I so respect makes it all the more meaningful. Ewulp 03:09, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
JNW, you've done a great job with fixing things! As for the Last Judgment article...Yeah, I noticed. I don't know why it looks so bad to me. It just does! Given the number of words that I manage to spell wrongly, you'd think I'd hardly notice! I need a spell fixer permanently in tow. I didn't mean to be rude to you!
Thanks again! It's good to feel appreciated. I probably ought to be out there teaching but it's not the way things have worked out. I was just cruising around.. noticed Monet's haystacks on your list. There seems to me to be an intrinsic problem with that page... a misunderstanding about the nature of a haystack. I suppoose i'd better leave a message on the page.. bye! -- Amandajm 14:36, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
Hi - hope you're enjoying the break. I'm passing on a request to check out canvas - I've added a bit ,but you will know more. Johnbod 17:39, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
I forgot one word in my edit summary, "previous text was in no way a summary of this article". I think the lead should speak about Rembrandt, not about the Dutch Golden Age. Do you agree the sentence I just removed should indeed be omitted? – Ilse @ 14:39, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
The peer review at Wikipedia:Peer review/Haystacks (Monet)/archive1 closed without much commentary. I posted the article for WP:GAC. However, the article then received an automated review after I nominated it at WP:GAC. We have some things to look at as far as improving the article based on the automated feedback. TonyTheTiger ( t/ c/ bio/ tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 14:30, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
Any thoughts on the 2nd WP:GA failure. It seems readily fixable from the tone and tenor of the review. I will get to it soon. Help would be appreciated. -- TonyTheTiger ( t/ c/ bio/ tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 18:12, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
I have not responded to this, Tony, only because I kind of ran out of gas on this for now. If I can make a positive contribution to this in the future, I will. Many thanks, JNW 17:38, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
Just dropped by your page and looked at Adriane again, Geez I like that painting! I've just done an overhaul of Romanesque architecture. -- Amandajm 17:36, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
Your reworking of Chardin is terrific and long overdue. Although whats with this sentence? - Chardin entered into a marriage contract with Marguerite Saintard in 1723, whom he did not marry is son Jean-Pierre was baptized, and a daughter, Marguerite-Agnès, was baptized in 1733. Strange domestic life I guess. Anyway its looking good. Congrats Modernist 22:43, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
Hi
I'd avoid the use of superlatives unless they are factual, e.g. Mt. Everest is the tallest mountain in the world, Bill Gates is according to Fortune's 2006 survey the wealthiest individual in the wold, etc. When you say Chardin is the greatest master of the still life (a statement with which I personally agree, though I'm no expert) you're expressing, or relating, a subjective opinion. What is factual is that he was a master of the still life and had influence on contemporary and later painters which is today appreciated. Who's to say what will happen to his work in 20 or 100 years?
In music Bach had to be rediscovered because he'd been more or less forgotten with 20 years of his passing. Mozart was one of his fans, but this was definitely an expert opinion on what was then an obscure dead composer. Opinions wax and wane... Vincent 07:54, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
Is he a mate? It's wierd we're both editing him tonight, or did you spot one of my "Artist aouthors" adds? I'm trying to declutter the Visual arts categories. Johnbod 03:20, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
It's a great name - which he lives up to by the photo! Johnbod 03:25, 16 July 2007 (UTC) - No - no photo; thinking of Spike, is it? Johnbod 03:27, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
-I was thinking of John Spike, another stray sheep category-wise, though actually on looking again at his photo I'm in no position .... Johnbod 03:31, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
-very different! Good portrait, with the "bonus tracks" behind Johnbod 03:37, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for your message. Please have at the Calder images, and try to place them. I'm actually working today on real life stuff. I'm not a big Robert Hughes fan and his comment about Chardin was a bit too pushy I thought, but as the Chardin show at the Met demonstrated he was a great still life painter, an interesting and good printmaker and definitely more modern than most of his contemporaries. I like Watteau a lot and there are some great Fragonard's at the Frick, but Chardin has a reality to him that still resonates, maybe because he painted ordinary people doing ordinary things. Modernist 14:31, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
Hello JNW,
On July 18, 2007 you removed external links to a private gallery from the following articles:
(diff) (hist) . . Rockwell Kent; 23:03 . . (-111) . . JNW (Talk | contribs) (rv private gallery link)
(diff) (hist) . . Maurice Prendergast; 23:02 . . (-15) . . JNW (Talk | contribs) (rv commer)
(diff) (hist) . . Childe Hassam; 22:59 . . (-194) . . JNW (Talk | contribs) (→External links - rv two links to private galleries)
(diff) (hist) . . William Merritt Chase; 22:43 . . (-109) . . JNW (Talk | contribs) (→External links - rv commercial link; bio links already here)
(diff) (hist) . . Charles E. Burchfield; 22:42 . . (-114) . . JNW (Talk | contribs) (rv gallery link; other bio links here already)
(diff) (hist) . . Winslow Homer; 22:38 . . (+7) . . JNW (Talk | contribs) (rv link to commercial gallery, replaced with museum bio)
I felt the links to this gallery had pertinent information and visuals related to these artists. External links can sometimes walk a fine line between being viable and violating Wikipedia policy. I think other external links in these articles should have been reviewed for removal as well, because they too walk that fine line of violating Wikipedia policy.
On the [Rockwell Kent] page both the Rockwell Kent Artwork Examples on AskART and Photos of the Random House edition of Moby Dick Illustrated by Rockwell Kent links should have been considered for removal. AskArt.com is a major dealer resource for buying and selling of art online. And the link to the Moby Dick book has numerous links to other book buying websites. Wouldn't it be more appropriate to have the ISBN number listed as stated in the Wikipedia guidelines for the book link?
In the both the [William Merritt Chase] and [Childe Hassam] articles there are links to Artcyclopedia.com Both sites display numerous links to dealer sites.
Again, the same goes for the AskArt.com links found in both the [Charles Burchfield] and [Winslow Homer] articles.
Often, I see external links removed form articles and not others when they too may warrant removal. I would just like to see more attention paid to this issue.
Thank you for taking the time to update and maintain these articles. At times, it's not an easy job and is much appreciated. Alp1776 14:49, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for your message. I don't claim to be an exhaustive editor when it comes to deleting external sites that I think are not appropriate links--often it's the most recent changes that catch my eye, as was the case here. Often these links were added to articles which already linked to other biographies, so these extra links look superfluous. And when added en masse, it gives the appearance, justified or not, that a web site, in this case for a commercial entity (which happens to sell very fine artwork), is being plugged. In several cases I replaced the commercial links with biographical entries from museum sites, where a product is not quite so obviously being sold, all of which I noted in the edit summaries. Finally, I think it says somewhere in WP:EL that arguing that the presence of other questionable links is beside the point--if you think they don't belong, please revert them, too. If the biography can use a good scholarly link, please add one from a non-commercial source. I'd be grateful. JNW 23:48, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
Hi JNW, In regards to your comment on Talk:Self-portrait - Yeah, I was surprised the other day when I found this - Talk:Self-portrait/Autoportrait,from the French, I've been doing a lot of work on Self Portrait for several months off and on, and I discovered the other article accidently a few days ago by surprise. Inadvertantly since it was different in so many ways from the other article I mistakenly moved it from Talk:Self-portrait/Autoportrait,from the French to an article page now called Self-portrait/Autoportrait. Clearly the two articles are related but different. Now I've been editing both. I think Self Portrait is superior but I'm interested in creating the two related but different articles at this point. Frankly I wish Self-portrait/Autoportrait had a talk page, but I'm at a loss as to how to make a talk page on it, I've tried but it doesn't seem to work. - Modernist 04:17, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
Now sorted. Johnbod 10:38, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
Actually, the new article is better -- still horribly written, but it now asserts notability and doesn't include contact information. I am going to put an unsourced tag on it, though.
NawlinWiki 02:38, 3 August 2007 (UTC) Oops, you're right, missed the Rembrandt stuff. Now deleted.
NawlinWiki
02:41, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
Well the only meat is the contemporary US stuff - it is a very poor stub otherwise (or either way). I didn't change the redirect, so "figurative art" will still take you there. Move it back by all means if you like, but until it covers the wider subject much better I don't think I'm inclined to myself. I've come across Dana Levin promoting herself very persistently elsewhere & admit I thought it easiest to shunt her onto a siding; if removed she will certainly add herself back. Johnbod 19:21, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
Nice work. [3] Tyrenius 01:52, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
I like the idea of you starting a new article about 20th century figurative art. Covering the bases from Matisse, Picasso, Chagall, Modigliani to Avery, Graham, Gorky, De Kooning, Pollock (1951-1953), Wyeth, Freud, Bacon, Auerbach, to Park, Diebenkorn, Neri, Bischoff, to Pop Art, Porter, Katz, Red Grooms, to Clemente, Fischl, and the Art Student League types. Give it a go. I think its timely. Modernist 22:41, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
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The Mighty Defender of the Wiki Barnstar | |
I'm awarding you this prestigious Defender of the Wiki Barnstar because you have gone above and beyond to prevent Wikipedia from being used for fraudulent purposes. Wikidudeman (talk) 14:36, 21 August 2007 (UTC) |
I was just looking up the answer in Wikipedia guide and while it seems the preferred setting is the former, likely with a clarification as to Valencia, Spain; it accepts the latter when the provenance would be commonly recognized (ie Bostonians as opposed to People from Boston). I looked up the Valencian People category and it has far more than the former, so I will change my entries to favor popuplar majority. thanks. CARAVAGGISTI 22:39, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
DA-DA !!! Thanks - Still accelerating back down the slip road of the WP autoroute so far, but will no doubt reach the usual excessive speed soon! Johnbod 19:28, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
That's a delete. Wikipedia's license allows reuse for any purpose, not just educational, so we'd be trying to give away more rights than they granted to us. — Celithemis 23:57, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
Any chance of giving this a once-over? I've added stuff that was needed on modelling chiaroscuro rather than the big bad Caravaggio sort. Also if you have any good references covering these two uses of the term clearly, that would be very handy. Thanks!
I've sorted the Self portrait/Autoportrait talk page out (from above). Johnbod 10:43, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
Thanks - That was the way I thought about chiaroscuro too, & is clearly how it is now normally used. But after I did the article over the first time, I kept coming across the modelling use in art history. I haven't seen Grove on it (in theory I can access at home via my local library, in practice it very rarely works - supposedly my Norton security interferes) but all the other reference works I have seen don't handle the various meanings very well imho. I had a quick look at Delacroix, which looked good - it's alarming how many big names need a makeover. Johnbod 14:32, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
I'd had a quick look - the main problem it seems to me is that the first sections are talking about Art as in "the arts", & the rest of the article is mostly about visual art (as I think it should be). Its all awfully woolly, & I'll see what I can do, but then I've never got beyond p12 of Richard Wollheim's opus. Johnbod 15:18, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
This is a muddled area. I think the former is the correct form unless the latter is a more commonplace usage (New Yorkers, for example). I honestly didn't have the energy to look and see how big the valencian people category was, but I will make merge them in the near future. Thanks for the edits. CARAVAGGISTI 22:41, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
Thank you, what a terrific surprise, most appreciated. Modernist 03:40, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
Indeed - I nearly quoted in the article a cutting footnote (same ref as bit I did quote) by Rosand saying that really most books on Giorgione should have the same title as one Italian article in the literature: "Il mio Giorgione"! You can certainly hear the knives being sharpened in some of the literature. Do we allow Daumier off-days? His output was so prodigious maybe we should. I don't usually take strong stands - as an artist I think you are equipped to judge in ways I'm not. Johnbod 15:13, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
I have same problem. Not a clue why it's happening. Try Wikipedia:Village pump (technical). Tyrenius 06:42, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
Hello JNW, I just wanted to say thank you for reverting the edits by User:194.164.236.17 today. This anon IP seems to only add edits about Will Tether. Makes me wonder if it is a fan or a publicist. I wanted to let you know that I added a warning to their talk page. This editor may warrant blocking one day and I have noticed that admins are loath to do this unless they have been warned about their behavior. Also, they may not know that they can become an editor who can contribute positively until they know what they are doing wrong (though I don't think that is they case here). If you encounter these edits again you may want to consider adding new warnings to their page (see WP:WARN), but, please don't feel that you have to do this. I am only mentioning it as a suggestion. Thanks for your time and happy editing. MarnetteD | Talk 00:12, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi. Could you help figure out what happened to this picture of a French impressionist painting? Image:Camille.jpg. -- 71.191.36.194 03:23, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
You reported 216.114.182.34 ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) at WP:AIV, but since the last vandalism was about 10 or 11 hours ago, I don't think the IP address poses a current threat. I was going to remove the report, but Husond beat me to it. If the vandal returns tomorrow, feel free to make a new report at WP:AIV where someone can intercept the vandalism as it's happening. Thanks. -- Elkman (Elkspeak) 02:07, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
I have just bitten the bullet and put half a dozen articles up for Featured Article review. including Romanesque architecture, Gothic architecture, Renaissance architecture and Italian Renaissance painting. If you would like to add your twopence worth as to whether they are among the best articles on wiki, then please do! Amandajm 09:18, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
Hola,
Sir Francis Drake's Spanish nickname was El Draque (not El Dragón). Please look it up.
Draque is old Spanish from the Latin draco. The old English "drake" and modern usage "dragon" are the same as the old Spanish "draque" and modern "dragón".
cheers, Gibbonsez —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gibbonsez ( talk • contribs) 05:26, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
El Draque
easy to check sources are:
Sir Walter Raleigh: Being a True and Vivid Account of the Life and Times of ... By Raleigh Trevelyan (available on Google Books)
The Literary World By Samuel R. Crocker, Edward Abbott, Nicholas Paine Gilman, Madeline Vaughan Abbott Bushnell, Bliss Carman, Herbert Copeland p54 (available on Google Books)
Oceana, Or, England and Her Colonies By James Anthony Froude p 32 (available on Google Books)
http://findesemana.libertaddigital.com/articulo.php/1276231817
http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/sir_francis_drake.htm
http://www.xroyvision.com.au/drake/history/drum1.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cacafuego
http://www.mojitocompany.com/pages.php?pageid=4
http://www.global-travel.co.uk/drake.htm
http://www.wandea.org.pl/drake.htm
http://www.enchantedlearning.com/explorers/page/d/drake.shtml
http://goofy313g.free.fr/calisota_online/exist/drake.html
Btw, google "El Dragòn" with "Drake", you will see that the few references to this version of the Drake nickname seem to source back to the uncorrected Wikipedia article, sadly including an eBay listing for 1722 edition of Drake's Voyages which clearly prefaces the quote with "According to Wikipedia". Even running a Google search with these terms turns up more hits which reflect the correct "El Draque" nickname. Of course, if you search "El Draque" and "Drake" you will find many, many uses of the correct nickname.
cheers, Gibbonsez —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gibbonsez ( talk • contribs) 06:02, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
No, I didn't have a conflict. Keep going, but let me know when you're done & I'll add touches if still on. Johnbod 02:30, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
Yes, that editor is determined to promote this "movement" and the artist attached to it. No sources though, which creates a few problems. I'm sure the PROD will be removed, so the article may need to go to speedy or AfD. I'm offline for the rest of the weekend (Canadian Thanksgiving/vacation from wiki), so you may need to take it to the next step if necessary. Cheers. Freshacconci | Talk 14:31, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
We are on the borderline with Haystacks (Monet). The fourth attempt has gotten to a hold status. We have another 5 days to meet all their demands. Do you still have access to the Tucker text? A {{ fact}} tag was place on a sentence. The subsequent sentence has a Tucker footnote on it. I am unsure if Tucker applies to both sentences. Come by and help out with the editorial changes if you have some time.-- TonyTheTiger ( t/ c/ bio/ tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 16:42, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
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The Chicago Barnstar | |
This award is for the patience, diligence, excellence and originality with which you have helped a Chicagoan cover up for his lack of expertise on art that is important to his city. TonyTheTiger ( t/ c/ bio/ tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 18:15, 9 October 2007 (UTC) |
I've added 5 images, at least 3 of which are new and unique. Please lend your expert opinion on whether all 5 are new.-- TonyTheTiger ( t/ c/ bio/ tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 20:10, 9 October 2007 (UTC) I will remove all of the 1890 harvest images. You can always revert any of them.-- TonyTheTiger ( t/ c/ bio/ tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 20:34, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
Congratulations, well deserved barnstar. Modernist 22:39, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for your editorial efforts. I would still be banging my head against the wall without you. You may want to display this somewhere.
![]() | This user helped promote Haystacks (Monet) to good article status. |
-- TonyTheTiger ( t/ c/ bio/ tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 14:29, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
Thanks on CC - it came out nicely I think. I only did a little revert, as you probably saw, & haven't checked what's left of our previous reverts! It needs a good going over when the storm passes... Cheers, Johnbod 18:03, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
You're welcome. :) · AndonicO Talk 11:42, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
I'm inclined to agree with you. Aside from WP:COI, there's a whole list of issues that spring to mind. How to decide on something so arbitrary (who gets to have work used to illustrate an article)? How would we control the deluge of artists posting their work for self-promotion? What about quality: is anything game? Who decides what's "good enough" for Wikipedia? I think WP:COI covers it well as a policy and deleting images like that when we encounter them is justified. This particular instance seems to have been settled by Modernist (the artist has asked that his drawings be taken off Wiki Commons). Freshacconci | Talk 16:19, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
I feel much the same, as to the subjectivity of such decisions, as well as my own ability to make such judgments. Still, it would be tempting for me to use what I think are extraordinary drawings by my friends, colleagues, or even those whose work most closely corresponds to my own tastes, which defines too narrow a spectrum, and runs close to COI. Fuller disclosure: I have painted commissioned portraits, from life, of notables with Wikipedia articles, and have, in weak moments, thought about including one of my paintings in a subject's biography, but this would, naturally, be a COI. It would even raise real questions should another party (the subject, their institution, or one of my business agents) do the same, even for an established portrait artist, for purposes which could easily be construed as promotional.
Not that it could not be done, and with good results, but tricky. JNW 02:33, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
You're welcome for my protection of that article. :) Acalamari 01:54, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, Image:JENNIFER.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Nv8200p talk 15:34, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
Check out User talk:141.219.44.104. The edits from anons beginning 141.219.44 are from Michigan Technological University. If there is vandalism, give the usual warnings, which can then lead to a block. Tyrenius 16:08, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
Hi Sparkit. Miss your contributions. Hope you are well. Best wishes, JNW 04:38, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
Ooh, when was that? Sounds out of character! Very sorry to see you're not well - hope you recover soon. Johnbod 23:33, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
I'm sorry to hear you are not well! Hope you are soon your old self!
Re Leo's handedness, that is a good article. Would you contribute a paragraph, calling it whatever you think appropriate? When you feel up to it.... Amandajm 02:48, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
Well spotted! I've added the {{Hoax}} tag to the Kenneth Hari article. If you're interested why, see here and here. Xn4 04:43, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
Oh we are having a little conflict over Neutrality [4]. You might feel inclined to put your twopence in! ... Amandajm ( talk) 10:09, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
You have recently tagged my Sivkov article. You also claim that we've been through this before. You'll have to forgive me, but I do not recall ever having discussed anything with you. That said: yes, I agree that the article would do better with more references (that is currently underway). I do, however, disagree with referring to the tone used as peacocked. I have an MA in cultural history from the University of Florida. I am aware of the vernacular used in scholastic art reviews, studies and literature. It does appear to me that you enjoy studying art. However, there is a great difference between the academic research and amateur writing. With respect; if you have any helpful hints, let me know.
DebrayR ( talk) 21:55, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
I agree with you that the language used is colourful. I have taken the time to read some of your contributions to wikipedia. And, the difference is that your work focuses on the biographical aspect of the artists' lives, and not a critical description of the artists' oeuvre. Nevertheless, I agree that more references would benefit the Sivkov article.
respectfully, DebrayR ( talk) 16:35, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
Personally, I am aware of no precedents for including references to illustrators of works in the biography of the author. Such content could reasonably I think be added to the content in the bio of the illustrator, but from what little I know the author doesn't necessarily choose the illustrator, so there's not necessarily any real connection between the author per se and the illustrator. Having said all that, inclusion of such info in the articles on the books themselves makes perfect sense, and if it can be established that there was a degree of personal contact between an author and an illustrator, that could be referenced in the article too. But personally I can't see justifying the existing section in the article in question. I'll make similar contents on the talk page if you so request, but I'm kinda new to the biography project so I can't cite previous cases as well as I might like. John Carter ( talk) 22:20, 28 November 2007 (UTC)