Look I am sure orangemarlin has nothing against you and your compatriots in particular. I do not know how long or broad an association with fundamentalism you have had. I assume you are a Christian fundamentalist but I might be wrong. I think most Christian fundamentalists are good people. I have many as friends. However, there is an element in Christian fundamentalism, particularly in the US, that is pretty unsavory. Is it as bad as the Islamists? Well it is different at least, but in some aspects it might be just as bad. As I said before, it does not excuse bad behavior on the part of Christians however. Remember that great quote from the bible about the mote in your own eye?-- Filll 16:03, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
You will get no argument from me about the danger of Islamic Fundamentalists. I am quite aware of the danger and keep very close track of it. There is a Madrassas that is close to where I live here just outside Washington DC which is teaching the children hatred for Americans and nonMuslims. I listened in amazement to interviews with the teachers and principal and students of this tax-exempt school on NPR, after they had been quoted in a long interview in the Washington Times. The people from this school all talked about how great 9.11 was, and how all Americans should be killed and are evil etc etc. It was pretty jaw-dropping. So I know they are dangerous. Now your group might not be in the same category as many others who call themselves evangelicals or fundamentalists etc. But I have had many encounters with people who call themselves conservative Christians, or born-again Christians, or evangelical Christians, or fundamentalist Christians, or believers in biblical inerrancy, etc. And SOME of these people are quite negative. In fact, I probably without too much effort could find some groups that claim to be "Fundamentalist Christians" who might take a look at the The Way of the Master and declare that:
and all kinds of other nonsense. The thing is, there is not much agreement among religions, or among Christians, or among Fundamentalist Christians about almost any issue. One common thread from groups that are pretty anxious to point fingers at others and condemn them is that they are not coming from a place of love and acceptance, but drawing on that vast well of hate that exists in most people.-- Filll 20:27, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
I suspect in time, by the well known process of pejoration, eventually the word "fundamentalist" will fall into disfavor, like all of the previous names for similar groups. I look askance at anyone or any group no matter what they call themselves when I see the following kinds of traits:
and similar kinds of things. Of course they are free to pursue their beliefs and activities if they want, as long as they do not hurt others or shove their beliefs on others or violate laws etc.-- Filll 21:59, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
We all have our own beliefs. And I have mine and you have yours. I do not insist you change to mine. And I am not interested in changing to yours. People frantic to get others to change to theirs do not realize that there are literally THOUSANDS of other faiths/sects/belief systems that all claim they are the true path and so on and so forth, and the other guys are jerks. Well they contradict each other don't they? I am not sure that God, if She exists, is so hung up which particular path one takes to get to Her. I also think that God gave us brains to think, as has been pointed out repeatedly for centuries. So, just like the biblical parable about hiding your talents, do not hide your talents. Use them. I would also point out that there is one group whose activity was widely reviled in the bible: Pharisees. And guess who looks most like Pharisees to me? The bibliolaters who call themselves fundamentalists. And yes you admit to anger. So do I want to join a group that
I instead favor tolerance of all beliefs, except for intolerance.-- Filll 22:47, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
To be honest, that is not much of a trick. This is not rocket science. All religions and sects can find something wrong with neighboring sects and religions. Even over teeny tiny points. The history of religion is full of this stuff.-- Filll 21:12, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
What, 1+1 isn't rocket science :/. Just because other religions and sects all find fault with each other doesn't mean their all wrong, after all, do you really think every criticism each religion has for the others is always compleatly rock-solid in its logic? Some of the things are just downright silly, or require circular reasoning type presuppositions. That's not to say everything Christians say is perfect either, but I find that without figuring out these things for yourself somewhat, its really hard to be confident in what you believe. Homestarmy 22:08, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
This is a perfect example of how interpretations can be different when one has vague language, and similes and metaphors and alleogry etc. That is what parables are; little stories that have a hidden meaning in them. Of course everyone disagrees about them, because everyone disagrees about every word and statement in every religious text.-- Filll 21:12, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
Err, actually, the language isn't really vauge at all, Jesus wasn't exactly speaking English back in Israel 2,000 years ago, He would of been speaking whatever language the crowd could understand and refer to the currency known as a "talent". If you look at the Parable of the Talents article, it seriously does literally refer to talents, which in turn apparently influenced our modern definition of "talent" through a far more extrapolative measure of interpretation. Besides, its not even referenced at the bottom, who knows how prevalent that interpretation is anyway, the point about talents could be made far more easily with later books of the NT which talk more explicitly about using talents that God gives us anyway. Besides, the two interpretations don't even contradict each other, I don't see what the problem is in this instance. While there probably are problems occasionally with other parts of the Bible like this, if the issues aren't looked at individually, then how can you get to the truth of the matter of which interpretations actually make sense and which are total malarky? (Cough Westboro cough...) Homestarmy 22:08, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
At least we agree on this. It is very unChristian if you ask me. And elitist and unpleasant. And hatemongering essentially.-- Filll 21:12, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
I think on some issues, creationists and fundamentalists etc reject rational thinking. Definitely. As bad or worse than the people in the Inquisition that imprisoned Galileo or put Giordano Bruno to death. I do not care if creationists reject rationality particularly, but it is FORCING their views on others that I object to strenuously.-- Filll 21:12, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
Well, there are many different ways people have tried to evangelize historically, some better than others, I mean, all you see in the Bible mostly is open-air preaching and people leading by example, so fundamentally, those two doesn't seem as forceful as, say, the inquisition or something like that. Like I said, we're all individuals here, sometimes Fundamentalists have different methods of doing things, and just because some of us might be doing it in a needlessly aggravating way doesn't mean the entirety of our message is wrong :/. (And here, needlessly means like intentionally trying to make people as angry at you and Christianity as possible, not just preaching normally, that's bound to make someone angry no matter how you do it :/.) Homestarmy 22:08, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
If you have to watch carefully, that should tell you something.-- Filll 21:12, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
Yea, it tells me I can't just let the Television do my thinking for me, maybe I have to think for myself once every now and again :). Homestarmy 22:08, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
Of course he wasnt smug after he got caught and essentially admitted to buying crystal methamphetamines and having sex with a male prostitute repeatedly. But I saw interviews about homosexuality and about evolution with Haggard before he was caught, and he was PROUD PROUD PROUD as a peacock and very contemptuous and dismissive of scientists and gays.-- Filll 21:12, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
Well, I can't speak much about those, i'd have to see some of them to figure out whether or not he's really being a smug hypocrite. But a lot of Fundamentalist preachers just give off an air of confidence in what their saying, that's not the same thing as being arrogant, it just means that we're trying to give the feeling of certainty in what we're saying. Being certain of something isn't arrogant when you're not under an obligation to go about most everything Materialistically, and therefore, relatively. Homestarmy 22:08, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
This is a very complicated question, because fundamentalists have gone out of their way to claim the name Christian just for themselves and deny that many others are Christians (such as Catholics), just as you do below here. The "Christian" (and I put the word "Christian" in quotes because they are not Christian to me) people I see spreading hatred are spread among a wide range of nondenominational, evangelical, born again, fundamentalist, biblical inerrancy, baptist and pentecostal groups, among others. I could give a very long list. But for starters, let's put James Dobson, Ann Coulter, Fred Phelps, Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Ken Ham, Kent Hovind, Ted Haggard and a few others on that list. I could go on and on and on however. Lots of people I do not see behaving like this, but they are normally people that fundamentalists would not claim as "Christians" but instead targets of their hatred.-- Filll 21:12, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
Ehhh, actually, I don't know any Fundamentalists who say that everyone who lived before the Fundamentalist movement wasn't a Christian, which is what taking the name only for ourselves would require :/. Now, individual Catholics can be Christians, and I won't deny that some people get carried away and accuse all Catholics of not being Christian, but the real issue mostly is whether or not the Church itself is Christian, not every individual member. Catholicism is probably the most complicated discussion though due to shared heritage and their long history and whatnot, all the other groups are normally far more cut and dry, like Jehovah's witnesses or the LDS. (Not Mormonism as a whole, I don't think a lot of people realize this at the moment, but Mormonism has plenty of denominations within itself with a very large disparity of beliefs.) Homestarmy 22:08, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
I am not surprised because I know fundamentalists like to claim others are not true Christians etc. This story is as old as the hills. Remember the slaughter of the Cathars by the "Christians", etc...Just basically a symptom of hatred and people acting like Pharisees.-- Filll 21:12, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
Well, actually, I was thinking far more cut and dry sorts of things than the Cathars vs. Catholicism, those Way of the Master people I mentioned earlier have a television and radio show where they interview people, and most of the "Christians" they find either never really became born again, (And the people being interviewed said that explicitly, it wasn't a matter of ambiguity over what that meant mostly) were partly in some other religion, or really only considered themselves Christian because their parents took them to church as kids and they just never joined another religion or cared about it at all after they were 18 or something. I don't know about you, but ending up on the church membership list doesn't sound like a very rock solid definition of Christian to me. Homestarmy 22:08, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
please check your email :-) -- Ling.Nut 22:38, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
Two projects seem to me worth doing, outside the GA ambit, which would do much of what it does that is a service to the encyclopedia.
One would be similar to the original vision: a list of articles which editors like, with some simple, light mechanic, in the spirit of WP:PRO.
The other would be a proposal for close reading of articles by intelligent outsiders, as you began doing with Bach. As there, the outside reader must expect to have many of his objections discounted (I'm no musicologist, and even I see why the article is phrased as it is); but the remainder would be infinitely helpful.
Would you be interested in helping start either of these? Septentrionalis PMAnderson 00:06, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
In fact, privately, if there is Systemic Bias here, it is the spirit of "we reviewers" among GA regulars. I don't mean you, here; but do reread the argument over whether mandatory was disputed. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 03:16, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
Did you see this:
http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/presents/after.jesus/
-- Ling.Nut 20:06, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
Interesting, have you considered adding it to your userpage on CKB? Arch O. La Grigory Deepdelver 22:34, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
The key thing I think the article needs are 1) More detailed history 2) A bigger picture 3) Copyediting
I think that would put it on its way to FA status. Let me know what the issues are if there are any others. Thanks so much for choosing this article! Judgesurreal777 02:45, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
Well, Mnikoldz ( talk · contribs) is a confirmed sock. Also see my reasoning about the protection at User talk:Crzrussian. Khoi khoi 19:41, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
What's this pure rubbish about a no consensus on Graniteville Train Disaster? The lead was definitely not a lead, and needed work. I'm going to delist this one immediately, and then someone can plump for a GAR review of my actions if they don't like it. LuciferMorgan 21:39, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
>nudge< A.J.A. 20:51, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
I'm not gone. See edit on Netflix on GA/R page on that. Also, do you or do you not have to be on the partcipant page to be a pass GAs? Shimeru seems way too lax to me, but whatever. I think we should require people to be listed to passs articles. Responding here is fine. Rlevse 21:53, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Which of these do you agree with, and which do you not?
Evolution = atheism
Evolution= religion
ID=science
atheists=Humanists=naturalists
Creationism=science
evolution=Big Bang+cosmochemistry+Hertzsprung-Russell Stellar theory+abiogenesis+biological evolution+speciation
scientists=atheists
ID>creationism
Christians=biblical literalists
Catholics != Christians
scientists!= Christians
Religion=Christianity
Religious Creation accounts=Genesis
--
Filll
18:35, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
Excellent. This is the kind of feedback I like to help me with my writing. Ok here is an edited list with some comments:
Evolution = atheism
Evolution= religion
ID=science
atheists=Humanists=naturalists
Creationism=science
evolution=Big Bang+cosmochemistry+Hertzsprung-Russell Stellar theory+abiogenesis+biological evolution+speciation
scientists=atheists
ID>creationism
Christians=biblical literalists
Catholics != Christians
scientists!= Christians
Only True Religion=Christianity
Only True Religious Creation account=Genesis
Let me respond to your long post:
None of them, though some because I think they are iffy as opposed to me holding a clear alternative view.
I guess i've capitulated to the evolutionist camp without knowing it, my how these things creep up on you eh?
While I have seen with my own eyes many people write specifically about how, for them, Evolutionary theory is an instrumental aspect of their justification for atheism,
theistic evolution has it own article, so apparently there are enough adherants to be notable, which doesn't sound like a singular religion to me, if it even is one at all.
"Evolution" does not automatically mean all of the modern synthesis, for many creationists including myself, it truthfully only refers to microevolution, which is certainly no religion.
As you may be aware, many fundamentalists are skeptical of Intelligent Design advocates because they seem to do a flip-flopping comprimise dance, first almost agreeing with evolutionists, and then seeming to flip back to YEC almost, but if I undersstand it, they are generally old-earthers.
And, therefore, I am one of those skeptical fundamentalists when it comes to ID. Many atheists worldwide live in locations where Humanism and naturalism historically never happened, so its a bit hard for them all to be those things.
I would classify Creationism under history more than science, since science is a study using things which can be reproduced one way or another most of the time, whereas history by default isn't.
While many evolutionists I have read things from do seem to enjoy tying together all the things you mention evolution equalling in order to supposedly crush religion in general, (Well, maybe not the Hertzsprung thing, i've never heard someone use that phrase before.)
I don't see microevolution in that list, which makes for a very problematic definition for me indeed.
My Chemistry teacher is a scientist yet certainly doesn't seem atheistic at all, so first hand experience rules me out from agreeing with the next time.
I fail to see how ID is somehow greater than Creationism, when it seems far more deistic than Christian at its core no matter how many roman catholics lead the movement. Next, being a literalist is simply not enough. Anyone can read the Bible literally, but that doesn't mean you'll necessarily accept it as true.
Catholicism as a whole, I suspect, is certainly getting closer to non-Christian every day from the looks of it, though it is a problematic generalization to make, because it is such a worldwide denomination that geographical boundaries often allow certain regions to have beliefs different than the Vatican's. However, while I am quite well aware of the many "THE POPE IS THE ANTICHRIST!" type websites out there, I do not subscribe to their views, and am not a Seventh Day Adventist. I'm surprised you honestly think all ID type people would think that no scientists are Christians, I see so many evolution advocates going on and on about those creationists and their mean old quote mining, in which we often pull a few quotes from some pretty Christian sounding scientists like Newton or somebody.
I don't know what "Religion=Christianity" is supposed to mean so I can't agree with it, but put a "True" in front of that and you'll have it about right. (See, maybe i'm fundamentalist after all!) There's a similar problem with your last one, it needs a modifier at the beginning, otherwise it could describe every creation account of any religion, true or not.
Homestarmy
19:24, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
Part of the problem here is that many fundamentalists want to brand others as atheists when they are not even close to atheists. It is what I was trying to get across with my "math" above. Now orangemarlin and myself are not atheists. But I am sure many fundamentalists would call us atheists. And so it gets confusing. Statistically they are a tiny group. Even in science they are about half at most, and I bet even less since I think the survey I saw lumped agnostics in with atheists, and agnostics are far far more numerous than atheists.-- Filll 21:26, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
I am not an Atheist. And here I am. Orangemarlin is not an atheist. But here he is...-- Filll 21:26, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
I have seen some creationists that claim that they have no problem with macroevolution either. And most people do not know what evolution is; in a survey fewer than half the people could pick the definition of evolution out of a list. So it is all pretty confused. But you are right, biblical fundamentalists are outnumbered. They are about 10% of the US, depending on how you count. -- Filll 21:26, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
I have seen many fundamentalists glad to ignore parts of the bible they want to ignore, or interpret those parts in ways that suit them. So...-- Filll 21:26, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
But you can observe evolution at the moment. Both micro and macro evolution have been observed "at the moment". Many times. And documented over and over. And no real history that ignores science these days is respectable. After all, what about the history of the Great Flood? Pseudohistory at best. Many creationists are using arguments from 50 or 100 or 150 years ago. It is just part for the course..-- Filll 21:26, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
I think that the fighting over versions is why we have several thousand sects of Christianity. And who knows which is best? And yes, people have died because they followed a different version. Lots of them.-- Filll 21:26, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
I liked the way that you reviewed the Scotch College, Perth article, and i would like you to review my article - aquinas college, perth. Thanks Smbarnzy 12:50, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
Noticed you put this article on hold back in early December. Just wanted to remind you to take a look at it, in case you'd forgotten. Shimeru 09:14, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for editing the Jesus article.
I recently found that the Jesus article on Wikipedia is the first item that comes up when you search for "Jesus" on the world’s most widely used search engine, Google.
Please edit the Jesus article to make it an accurate and excellent representation of Him.
The Jesus article may be a person’s first impression of Jesus. It would be nice if their first impression was from a Christian or the Bible, but for so many in these new days it probably comes from the Internet. Watch the Jesus page to keep it focused on Him. Thanks a lot.
Also, watch out to follow Wikipedia's Policies and guidelines. It is especially hard for the Three-revert rule and the Neutral point of view policy to be followed because of the nature of the article, but please follow these policies along with citing sources so that the article does not get locked from editing and can't be improved further. Thanks again. Scifiintel 18:12, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
I didn't want to clog up [User:Filll]'s discussion page with our stuff. So let me continue:
Oh those evil UU types!! Wash your mouth out with soap for even saying their name!!-- Filll 04:07, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
A request for mediation has been filed with the Mediation Committee that lists you as a party. The Mediation Committee requires that all parties listed in a mediation must be notified of the mediation. Please review the request at Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Jews for Jesus 2, and indicate whether you agree or refuse to mediate. If you are unfamiliar with mediation, please refer to Wikipedia:Mediation. There are only seven days for everyone to agree, so please check as soon as possible.
I keep reading this article, and although I can't even explain to you how appalled I am by this group, why all the arguing? I'm a very biased bystander, and it seems like a reasonable article. No one calls them Nazis (I am not a fan of using that label anyways, given that a Nazi is pretty way down the evolutionary scale of humans--couldn't resist, sorry--but these people are anti-semetic). Do you think you could give me a blow by blow of why this is so contentious? I've read the discussion, and you seem to be one of the voices of reason, but I could be confused. Orangemarlin 22:15, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for your GA passing of Shaw and Crompton - it has been hard work, but well worth it, it seems! I'll try to make the ammendments you recommended to improve the article further. Thanks again, Jhamez84 16:21, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
Your case for Mediation from the Mediation Committee has been accepted. Your re-agreement is required at the case page under Request for Mediation; prompt action on your behalf would be appreciated in order to commence the mediation as soon as possible.
If you have any questions about my contributions, personal mediation style or otherwise, please contact me at my talk page, or email me at anthony (dot) cfc (at) gmail (dot) com - all email communication is private unless stated otherwise.
Cheers and regards,
Anthony
cfc [
T •
C
03:15, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Why do you do so? Are you a credophile? -- Taraborn 23:55, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for reviewing Hamersley - you've brought up some good points which we can address. And your talk page is far more interesting than mine! Mine is chatter and random frog discussions at the moment. Orderinchaos78 15:24, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
This is still on the GA/R but with improvement now has 4 keep votes, but ChrisMari delisted it on its talk page on 2 Jan. What to do? Pls repsond on GA/R page. Rlevse 14:15, 11 January 2007 (UTC)...Same deal with Katie Melua. People are delisted as soon as they put them on the GA/R page.???? Rlevse 14:17, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
Please look at it and give me your comments: User talk:Filll/AllAboutGod-- Filll 03:03, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
Of course. Notability, NPOV, grammar, etc. -- Filll 04:28, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
Hrm, one of those interesting things of Wikipedia, I guess. I'd never happened across your userpage before, and had no idea I was working with one of those damnable fundamentalists. (This is meant quite tongue-in-cheek, of course, so please don't take offense. :) ) I'm used to it enough being called a hellbound atheist, so it's interesting for me to see that I'm working with a very religious person in one case, and a quite real-life pastor on another article I recently came across. Seraphimblade 11:41, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
Believe it or not, things are quiet over here. We've gotten the article down to fighting weight and we're in shooting range of FA quality. I've opened a discussion on the talk page about what is still needed in the article. I'd love to have you opine. -- CTSWyneken (talk) 14:23, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
Hi Homestarmy -- just curious if you had another suggestion for permissions to continue editing the JfJ article. Ramsquire and I both made alternative suggestions, but if you had another idea, we'd probably agree. Best, Mackan79 18:41, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
Why not campaign against linguistics? And the teaching of many aspects of linguistics in colleges and high schools? Grammar? Etymologies? A lot of information taught and studied in linguistics disagrees with the biblical account, after all.-- Filll 03:15, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
It is hypocritcal to be offended by evolution and not to be offended by the field of Historical linguistics.-- Filll 03:19, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
If you and editors with similar views started your wikipedia, the living wikipedia or whatever, you may find more benefit than having to constantly lock horns with the unilluminated. Your community has achieved a lot on WP, it would be a shame if most of it became lost in edits. This has been the solution to the interests of a group being achieved. Just a suggestion. Fred 03:31, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
I would direct anyone interested to CreationWiki or ResearchID Wiki. There are probably more out there too.-- Filll 05:28, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
I am a member of CreationWiki myself. I have not contributed anything yet however. I did not yet join the intelligent design one. I am of course a member of EvoWiki. I also contribute to some other Wikis. I do not want to "get rid" of you. It is just useful to know of other good wikis. For example, I think WikiTravel is far underused.-- Filll 16:42, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
If an article has a majority o f pass in it's GA/R does it mean that it becomes a GA. Thanks. Kyriakos 21:25, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
Dear Homes: I tell people call me anything but late-for-dinner! 8-) The big boy on the block is Kenneth Scott Latourette, A history of the expansion of Christianity 7 v. New York ; London : Harper & Brothers, 1937-1945. Christian History, a magazine, also does a nice job in a more popular tone. They are on the web. If you have a little more specific question, let me know, and I'll tickle the keyboard. It's what I do. (Think of me as a wired reference librarian). -- CTSWyneken (talk) 12:10, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
Robertson Quote: “The fact that [the courts] are trying to ignore this country’s religious heritage is just horrible. They are taking our religion away from us under the guise of separation of church and state. There was never any intention that our government would be separate from God Almighty. Never, never, never in the history of this land did the founders of this country or those who came after them think that was the case.”
Sears Quote: “One by one, more and more bricks that make up the artificial ‘wall of separation’ between church and state are being removed and Christians are once again being allowed to exercise their constitutional right to equal access to public facilities and funding.” (January 2004 e-mail alert)
Donald Wildmon: Wildmon, 68, has flirted with anti-Semitism, suggesting that Jews control the entertainment industry. The AFA’s Journal has also reprinted articles from The Spotlight, an anti-Semitic newspaper. In December, Wildmon said evangelicals may stop supporting Israel if Jewish leaders don’t stop criticizing the Religious Right.
Wildmon Quote: “Anti-prayer/Anti-Christian groups – like the ACLU and Americans United for Separation of Church and State – have teamed up with liberal judges on the U.S. Supreme Court and are stripping away our religious freedom.” (Fall 2000 fund-raising letter)
Quote: “The [Supreme] Court has become increasingly hostile to Christianity. It represents more of a threat to representative government than any other force – more than budget deficits, more than terrorism.” (“Confronting the Judicial War on Faith” conference, March 7, 2005)
Falwell Quote: “Separation of Church and State has long been the battle cry of civil libertarians wishing to purge our glorious Christian heritage from our nation’s history. Of course, the term never once appears in our Constitution and is a modern fabrication of discrimination.” (“Falwell Fax,” April 10, 1998)
Sheldon Quote: “A dangerous Marxist/Leftist/Homosexual/Islamic coalition has formed – and we’d better be willing to fight it with everything in our power. These people are playing for keeps. Their hero, Mao Tse Tung, is estimated to have murdered upwards of 60 million people during his reign of terror in China. Do we think we can escape such persecution if we refuse to fight for what is right?” (“The War on Christianity,” column, TVC Web site, Dec. 13, 2005)
Source: [2] -- Filll 16:42, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
I appreciate your contributions in closing GARs, but I noticed that you closed one when only 1 person other than the nominator had voted. Please remember that the GAR is really more about consensus than about voting. When a unanimous 4-0 vote comes around, then that could be declared consensus, but 2-0 is rather low. Also, please do not count the nominator as a vote when you post the results of the GAR. Thank you, and I hope that you can continue to help in closing GARs. Diez2 03:37, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
I noticed you took part in the straw poll. Please visit the talk page to engage in the discussion, so we may build consensus. Vassyana 00:20, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
I was reviewing HiPER and noticed that it had a lack of inline citations. The editors noted that there are sources but they aren't published could you help and possibly give suggestions on how this can be resolved. Tarret 22:00, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
Look I am sure orangemarlin has nothing against you and your compatriots in particular. I do not know how long or broad an association with fundamentalism you have had. I assume you are a Christian fundamentalist but I might be wrong. I think most Christian fundamentalists are good people. I have many as friends. However, there is an element in Christian fundamentalism, particularly in the US, that is pretty unsavory. Is it as bad as the Islamists? Well it is different at least, but in some aspects it might be just as bad. As I said before, it does not excuse bad behavior on the part of Christians however. Remember that great quote from the bible about the mote in your own eye?-- Filll 16:03, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
You will get no argument from me about the danger of Islamic Fundamentalists. I am quite aware of the danger and keep very close track of it. There is a Madrassas that is close to where I live here just outside Washington DC which is teaching the children hatred for Americans and nonMuslims. I listened in amazement to interviews with the teachers and principal and students of this tax-exempt school on NPR, after they had been quoted in a long interview in the Washington Times. The people from this school all talked about how great 9.11 was, and how all Americans should be killed and are evil etc etc. It was pretty jaw-dropping. So I know they are dangerous. Now your group might not be in the same category as many others who call themselves evangelicals or fundamentalists etc. But I have had many encounters with people who call themselves conservative Christians, or born-again Christians, or evangelical Christians, or fundamentalist Christians, or believers in biblical inerrancy, etc. And SOME of these people are quite negative. In fact, I probably without too much effort could find some groups that claim to be "Fundamentalist Christians" who might take a look at the The Way of the Master and declare that:
and all kinds of other nonsense. The thing is, there is not much agreement among religions, or among Christians, or among Fundamentalist Christians about almost any issue. One common thread from groups that are pretty anxious to point fingers at others and condemn them is that they are not coming from a place of love and acceptance, but drawing on that vast well of hate that exists in most people.-- Filll 20:27, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
I suspect in time, by the well known process of pejoration, eventually the word "fundamentalist" will fall into disfavor, like all of the previous names for similar groups. I look askance at anyone or any group no matter what they call themselves when I see the following kinds of traits:
and similar kinds of things. Of course they are free to pursue their beliefs and activities if they want, as long as they do not hurt others or shove their beliefs on others or violate laws etc.-- Filll 21:59, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
We all have our own beliefs. And I have mine and you have yours. I do not insist you change to mine. And I am not interested in changing to yours. People frantic to get others to change to theirs do not realize that there are literally THOUSANDS of other faiths/sects/belief systems that all claim they are the true path and so on and so forth, and the other guys are jerks. Well they contradict each other don't they? I am not sure that God, if She exists, is so hung up which particular path one takes to get to Her. I also think that God gave us brains to think, as has been pointed out repeatedly for centuries. So, just like the biblical parable about hiding your talents, do not hide your talents. Use them. I would also point out that there is one group whose activity was widely reviled in the bible: Pharisees. And guess who looks most like Pharisees to me? The bibliolaters who call themselves fundamentalists. And yes you admit to anger. So do I want to join a group that
I instead favor tolerance of all beliefs, except for intolerance.-- Filll 22:47, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
To be honest, that is not much of a trick. This is not rocket science. All religions and sects can find something wrong with neighboring sects and religions. Even over teeny tiny points. The history of religion is full of this stuff.-- Filll 21:12, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
What, 1+1 isn't rocket science :/. Just because other religions and sects all find fault with each other doesn't mean their all wrong, after all, do you really think every criticism each religion has for the others is always compleatly rock-solid in its logic? Some of the things are just downright silly, or require circular reasoning type presuppositions. That's not to say everything Christians say is perfect either, but I find that without figuring out these things for yourself somewhat, its really hard to be confident in what you believe. Homestarmy 22:08, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
This is a perfect example of how interpretations can be different when one has vague language, and similes and metaphors and alleogry etc. That is what parables are; little stories that have a hidden meaning in them. Of course everyone disagrees about them, because everyone disagrees about every word and statement in every religious text.-- Filll 21:12, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
Err, actually, the language isn't really vauge at all, Jesus wasn't exactly speaking English back in Israel 2,000 years ago, He would of been speaking whatever language the crowd could understand and refer to the currency known as a "talent". If you look at the Parable of the Talents article, it seriously does literally refer to talents, which in turn apparently influenced our modern definition of "talent" through a far more extrapolative measure of interpretation. Besides, its not even referenced at the bottom, who knows how prevalent that interpretation is anyway, the point about talents could be made far more easily with later books of the NT which talk more explicitly about using talents that God gives us anyway. Besides, the two interpretations don't even contradict each other, I don't see what the problem is in this instance. While there probably are problems occasionally with other parts of the Bible like this, if the issues aren't looked at individually, then how can you get to the truth of the matter of which interpretations actually make sense and which are total malarky? (Cough Westboro cough...) Homestarmy 22:08, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
At least we agree on this. It is very unChristian if you ask me. And elitist and unpleasant. And hatemongering essentially.-- Filll 21:12, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
I think on some issues, creationists and fundamentalists etc reject rational thinking. Definitely. As bad or worse than the people in the Inquisition that imprisoned Galileo or put Giordano Bruno to death. I do not care if creationists reject rationality particularly, but it is FORCING their views on others that I object to strenuously.-- Filll 21:12, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
Well, there are many different ways people have tried to evangelize historically, some better than others, I mean, all you see in the Bible mostly is open-air preaching and people leading by example, so fundamentally, those two doesn't seem as forceful as, say, the inquisition or something like that. Like I said, we're all individuals here, sometimes Fundamentalists have different methods of doing things, and just because some of us might be doing it in a needlessly aggravating way doesn't mean the entirety of our message is wrong :/. (And here, needlessly means like intentionally trying to make people as angry at you and Christianity as possible, not just preaching normally, that's bound to make someone angry no matter how you do it :/.) Homestarmy 22:08, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
If you have to watch carefully, that should tell you something.-- Filll 21:12, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
Yea, it tells me I can't just let the Television do my thinking for me, maybe I have to think for myself once every now and again :). Homestarmy 22:08, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
Of course he wasnt smug after he got caught and essentially admitted to buying crystal methamphetamines and having sex with a male prostitute repeatedly. But I saw interviews about homosexuality and about evolution with Haggard before he was caught, and he was PROUD PROUD PROUD as a peacock and very contemptuous and dismissive of scientists and gays.-- Filll 21:12, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
Well, I can't speak much about those, i'd have to see some of them to figure out whether or not he's really being a smug hypocrite. But a lot of Fundamentalist preachers just give off an air of confidence in what their saying, that's not the same thing as being arrogant, it just means that we're trying to give the feeling of certainty in what we're saying. Being certain of something isn't arrogant when you're not under an obligation to go about most everything Materialistically, and therefore, relatively. Homestarmy 22:08, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
This is a very complicated question, because fundamentalists have gone out of their way to claim the name Christian just for themselves and deny that many others are Christians (such as Catholics), just as you do below here. The "Christian" (and I put the word "Christian" in quotes because they are not Christian to me) people I see spreading hatred are spread among a wide range of nondenominational, evangelical, born again, fundamentalist, biblical inerrancy, baptist and pentecostal groups, among others. I could give a very long list. But for starters, let's put James Dobson, Ann Coulter, Fred Phelps, Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Ken Ham, Kent Hovind, Ted Haggard and a few others on that list. I could go on and on and on however. Lots of people I do not see behaving like this, but they are normally people that fundamentalists would not claim as "Christians" but instead targets of their hatred.-- Filll 21:12, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
Ehhh, actually, I don't know any Fundamentalists who say that everyone who lived before the Fundamentalist movement wasn't a Christian, which is what taking the name only for ourselves would require :/. Now, individual Catholics can be Christians, and I won't deny that some people get carried away and accuse all Catholics of not being Christian, but the real issue mostly is whether or not the Church itself is Christian, not every individual member. Catholicism is probably the most complicated discussion though due to shared heritage and their long history and whatnot, all the other groups are normally far more cut and dry, like Jehovah's witnesses or the LDS. (Not Mormonism as a whole, I don't think a lot of people realize this at the moment, but Mormonism has plenty of denominations within itself with a very large disparity of beliefs.) Homestarmy 22:08, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
I am not surprised because I know fundamentalists like to claim others are not true Christians etc. This story is as old as the hills. Remember the slaughter of the Cathars by the "Christians", etc...Just basically a symptom of hatred and people acting like Pharisees.-- Filll 21:12, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
Well, actually, I was thinking far more cut and dry sorts of things than the Cathars vs. Catholicism, those Way of the Master people I mentioned earlier have a television and radio show where they interview people, and most of the "Christians" they find either never really became born again, (And the people being interviewed said that explicitly, it wasn't a matter of ambiguity over what that meant mostly) were partly in some other religion, or really only considered themselves Christian because their parents took them to church as kids and they just never joined another religion or cared about it at all after they were 18 or something. I don't know about you, but ending up on the church membership list doesn't sound like a very rock solid definition of Christian to me. Homestarmy 22:08, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
please check your email :-) -- Ling.Nut 22:38, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
Two projects seem to me worth doing, outside the GA ambit, which would do much of what it does that is a service to the encyclopedia.
One would be similar to the original vision: a list of articles which editors like, with some simple, light mechanic, in the spirit of WP:PRO.
The other would be a proposal for close reading of articles by intelligent outsiders, as you began doing with Bach. As there, the outside reader must expect to have many of his objections discounted (I'm no musicologist, and even I see why the article is phrased as it is); but the remainder would be infinitely helpful.
Would you be interested in helping start either of these? Septentrionalis PMAnderson 00:06, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
In fact, privately, if there is Systemic Bias here, it is the spirit of "we reviewers" among GA regulars. I don't mean you, here; but do reread the argument over whether mandatory was disputed. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 03:16, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
Did you see this:
http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/presents/after.jesus/
-- Ling.Nut 20:06, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
Interesting, have you considered adding it to your userpage on CKB? Arch O. La Grigory Deepdelver 22:34, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
The key thing I think the article needs are 1) More detailed history 2) A bigger picture 3) Copyediting
I think that would put it on its way to FA status. Let me know what the issues are if there are any others. Thanks so much for choosing this article! Judgesurreal777 02:45, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
Well, Mnikoldz ( talk · contribs) is a confirmed sock. Also see my reasoning about the protection at User talk:Crzrussian. Khoi khoi 19:41, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
What's this pure rubbish about a no consensus on Graniteville Train Disaster? The lead was definitely not a lead, and needed work. I'm going to delist this one immediately, and then someone can plump for a GAR review of my actions if they don't like it. LuciferMorgan 21:39, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
>nudge< A.J.A. 20:51, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
I'm not gone. See edit on Netflix on GA/R page on that. Also, do you or do you not have to be on the partcipant page to be a pass GAs? Shimeru seems way too lax to me, but whatever. I think we should require people to be listed to passs articles. Responding here is fine. Rlevse 21:53, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Which of these do you agree with, and which do you not?
Evolution = atheism
Evolution= religion
ID=science
atheists=Humanists=naturalists
Creationism=science
evolution=Big Bang+cosmochemistry+Hertzsprung-Russell Stellar theory+abiogenesis+biological evolution+speciation
scientists=atheists
ID>creationism
Christians=biblical literalists
Catholics != Christians
scientists!= Christians
Religion=Christianity
Religious Creation accounts=Genesis
--
Filll
18:35, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
Excellent. This is the kind of feedback I like to help me with my writing. Ok here is an edited list with some comments:
Evolution = atheism
Evolution= religion
ID=science
atheists=Humanists=naturalists
Creationism=science
evolution=Big Bang+cosmochemistry+Hertzsprung-Russell Stellar theory+abiogenesis+biological evolution+speciation
scientists=atheists
ID>creationism
Christians=biblical literalists
Catholics != Christians
scientists!= Christians
Only True Religion=Christianity
Only True Religious Creation account=Genesis
Let me respond to your long post:
None of them, though some because I think they are iffy as opposed to me holding a clear alternative view.
I guess i've capitulated to the evolutionist camp without knowing it, my how these things creep up on you eh?
While I have seen with my own eyes many people write specifically about how, for them, Evolutionary theory is an instrumental aspect of their justification for atheism,
theistic evolution has it own article, so apparently there are enough adherants to be notable, which doesn't sound like a singular religion to me, if it even is one at all.
"Evolution" does not automatically mean all of the modern synthesis, for many creationists including myself, it truthfully only refers to microevolution, which is certainly no religion.
As you may be aware, many fundamentalists are skeptical of Intelligent Design advocates because they seem to do a flip-flopping comprimise dance, first almost agreeing with evolutionists, and then seeming to flip back to YEC almost, but if I undersstand it, they are generally old-earthers.
And, therefore, I am one of those skeptical fundamentalists when it comes to ID. Many atheists worldwide live in locations where Humanism and naturalism historically never happened, so its a bit hard for them all to be those things.
I would classify Creationism under history more than science, since science is a study using things which can be reproduced one way or another most of the time, whereas history by default isn't.
While many evolutionists I have read things from do seem to enjoy tying together all the things you mention evolution equalling in order to supposedly crush religion in general, (Well, maybe not the Hertzsprung thing, i've never heard someone use that phrase before.)
I don't see microevolution in that list, which makes for a very problematic definition for me indeed.
My Chemistry teacher is a scientist yet certainly doesn't seem atheistic at all, so first hand experience rules me out from agreeing with the next time.
I fail to see how ID is somehow greater than Creationism, when it seems far more deistic than Christian at its core no matter how many roman catholics lead the movement. Next, being a literalist is simply not enough. Anyone can read the Bible literally, but that doesn't mean you'll necessarily accept it as true.
Catholicism as a whole, I suspect, is certainly getting closer to non-Christian every day from the looks of it, though it is a problematic generalization to make, because it is such a worldwide denomination that geographical boundaries often allow certain regions to have beliefs different than the Vatican's. However, while I am quite well aware of the many "THE POPE IS THE ANTICHRIST!" type websites out there, I do not subscribe to their views, and am not a Seventh Day Adventist. I'm surprised you honestly think all ID type people would think that no scientists are Christians, I see so many evolution advocates going on and on about those creationists and their mean old quote mining, in which we often pull a few quotes from some pretty Christian sounding scientists like Newton or somebody.
I don't know what "Religion=Christianity" is supposed to mean so I can't agree with it, but put a "True" in front of that and you'll have it about right. (See, maybe i'm fundamentalist after all!) There's a similar problem with your last one, it needs a modifier at the beginning, otherwise it could describe every creation account of any religion, true or not.
Homestarmy
19:24, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
Part of the problem here is that many fundamentalists want to brand others as atheists when they are not even close to atheists. It is what I was trying to get across with my "math" above. Now orangemarlin and myself are not atheists. But I am sure many fundamentalists would call us atheists. And so it gets confusing. Statistically they are a tiny group. Even in science they are about half at most, and I bet even less since I think the survey I saw lumped agnostics in with atheists, and agnostics are far far more numerous than atheists.-- Filll 21:26, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
I am not an Atheist. And here I am. Orangemarlin is not an atheist. But here he is...-- Filll 21:26, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
I have seen some creationists that claim that they have no problem with macroevolution either. And most people do not know what evolution is; in a survey fewer than half the people could pick the definition of evolution out of a list. So it is all pretty confused. But you are right, biblical fundamentalists are outnumbered. They are about 10% of the US, depending on how you count. -- Filll 21:26, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
I have seen many fundamentalists glad to ignore parts of the bible they want to ignore, or interpret those parts in ways that suit them. So...-- Filll 21:26, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
But you can observe evolution at the moment. Both micro and macro evolution have been observed "at the moment". Many times. And documented over and over. And no real history that ignores science these days is respectable. After all, what about the history of the Great Flood? Pseudohistory at best. Many creationists are using arguments from 50 or 100 or 150 years ago. It is just part for the course..-- Filll 21:26, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
I think that the fighting over versions is why we have several thousand sects of Christianity. And who knows which is best? And yes, people have died because they followed a different version. Lots of them.-- Filll 21:26, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
I liked the way that you reviewed the Scotch College, Perth article, and i would like you to review my article - aquinas college, perth. Thanks Smbarnzy 12:50, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
Noticed you put this article on hold back in early December. Just wanted to remind you to take a look at it, in case you'd forgotten. Shimeru 09:14, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for editing the Jesus article.
I recently found that the Jesus article on Wikipedia is the first item that comes up when you search for "Jesus" on the world’s most widely used search engine, Google.
Please edit the Jesus article to make it an accurate and excellent representation of Him.
The Jesus article may be a person’s first impression of Jesus. It would be nice if their first impression was from a Christian or the Bible, but for so many in these new days it probably comes from the Internet. Watch the Jesus page to keep it focused on Him. Thanks a lot.
Also, watch out to follow Wikipedia's Policies and guidelines. It is especially hard for the Three-revert rule and the Neutral point of view policy to be followed because of the nature of the article, but please follow these policies along with citing sources so that the article does not get locked from editing and can't be improved further. Thanks again. Scifiintel 18:12, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
I didn't want to clog up [User:Filll]'s discussion page with our stuff. So let me continue:
Oh those evil UU types!! Wash your mouth out with soap for even saying their name!!-- Filll 04:07, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
A request for mediation has been filed with the Mediation Committee that lists you as a party. The Mediation Committee requires that all parties listed in a mediation must be notified of the mediation. Please review the request at Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Jews for Jesus 2, and indicate whether you agree or refuse to mediate. If you are unfamiliar with mediation, please refer to Wikipedia:Mediation. There are only seven days for everyone to agree, so please check as soon as possible.
I keep reading this article, and although I can't even explain to you how appalled I am by this group, why all the arguing? I'm a very biased bystander, and it seems like a reasonable article. No one calls them Nazis (I am not a fan of using that label anyways, given that a Nazi is pretty way down the evolutionary scale of humans--couldn't resist, sorry--but these people are anti-semetic). Do you think you could give me a blow by blow of why this is so contentious? I've read the discussion, and you seem to be one of the voices of reason, but I could be confused. Orangemarlin 22:15, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for your GA passing of Shaw and Crompton - it has been hard work, but well worth it, it seems! I'll try to make the ammendments you recommended to improve the article further. Thanks again, Jhamez84 16:21, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
Your case for Mediation from the Mediation Committee has been accepted. Your re-agreement is required at the case page under Request for Mediation; prompt action on your behalf would be appreciated in order to commence the mediation as soon as possible.
If you have any questions about my contributions, personal mediation style or otherwise, please contact me at my talk page, or email me at anthony (dot) cfc (at) gmail (dot) com - all email communication is private unless stated otherwise.
Cheers and regards,
Anthony
cfc [
T •
C
03:15, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Why do you do so? Are you a credophile? -- Taraborn 23:55, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for reviewing Hamersley - you've brought up some good points which we can address. And your talk page is far more interesting than mine! Mine is chatter and random frog discussions at the moment. Orderinchaos78 15:24, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
This is still on the GA/R but with improvement now has 4 keep votes, but ChrisMari delisted it on its talk page on 2 Jan. What to do? Pls repsond on GA/R page. Rlevse 14:15, 11 January 2007 (UTC)...Same deal with Katie Melua. People are delisted as soon as they put them on the GA/R page.???? Rlevse 14:17, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
Please look at it and give me your comments: User talk:Filll/AllAboutGod-- Filll 03:03, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
Of course. Notability, NPOV, grammar, etc. -- Filll 04:28, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
Hrm, one of those interesting things of Wikipedia, I guess. I'd never happened across your userpage before, and had no idea I was working with one of those damnable fundamentalists. (This is meant quite tongue-in-cheek, of course, so please don't take offense. :) ) I'm used to it enough being called a hellbound atheist, so it's interesting for me to see that I'm working with a very religious person in one case, and a quite real-life pastor on another article I recently came across. Seraphimblade 11:41, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
Believe it or not, things are quiet over here. We've gotten the article down to fighting weight and we're in shooting range of FA quality. I've opened a discussion on the talk page about what is still needed in the article. I'd love to have you opine. -- CTSWyneken (talk) 14:23, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
Hi Homestarmy -- just curious if you had another suggestion for permissions to continue editing the JfJ article. Ramsquire and I both made alternative suggestions, but if you had another idea, we'd probably agree. Best, Mackan79 18:41, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
Why not campaign against linguistics? And the teaching of many aspects of linguistics in colleges and high schools? Grammar? Etymologies? A lot of information taught and studied in linguistics disagrees with the biblical account, after all.-- Filll 03:15, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
It is hypocritcal to be offended by evolution and not to be offended by the field of Historical linguistics.-- Filll 03:19, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
If you and editors with similar views started your wikipedia, the living wikipedia or whatever, you may find more benefit than having to constantly lock horns with the unilluminated. Your community has achieved a lot on WP, it would be a shame if most of it became lost in edits. This has been the solution to the interests of a group being achieved. Just a suggestion. Fred 03:31, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
I would direct anyone interested to CreationWiki or ResearchID Wiki. There are probably more out there too.-- Filll 05:28, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
I am a member of CreationWiki myself. I have not contributed anything yet however. I did not yet join the intelligent design one. I am of course a member of EvoWiki. I also contribute to some other Wikis. I do not want to "get rid" of you. It is just useful to know of other good wikis. For example, I think WikiTravel is far underused.-- Filll 16:42, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
If an article has a majority o f pass in it's GA/R does it mean that it becomes a GA. Thanks. Kyriakos 21:25, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
Dear Homes: I tell people call me anything but late-for-dinner! 8-) The big boy on the block is Kenneth Scott Latourette, A history of the expansion of Christianity 7 v. New York ; London : Harper & Brothers, 1937-1945. Christian History, a magazine, also does a nice job in a more popular tone. They are on the web. If you have a little more specific question, let me know, and I'll tickle the keyboard. It's what I do. (Think of me as a wired reference librarian). -- CTSWyneken (talk) 12:10, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
Robertson Quote: “The fact that [the courts] are trying to ignore this country’s religious heritage is just horrible. They are taking our religion away from us under the guise of separation of church and state. There was never any intention that our government would be separate from God Almighty. Never, never, never in the history of this land did the founders of this country or those who came after them think that was the case.”
Sears Quote: “One by one, more and more bricks that make up the artificial ‘wall of separation’ between church and state are being removed and Christians are once again being allowed to exercise their constitutional right to equal access to public facilities and funding.” (January 2004 e-mail alert)
Donald Wildmon: Wildmon, 68, has flirted with anti-Semitism, suggesting that Jews control the entertainment industry. The AFA’s Journal has also reprinted articles from The Spotlight, an anti-Semitic newspaper. In December, Wildmon said evangelicals may stop supporting Israel if Jewish leaders don’t stop criticizing the Religious Right.
Wildmon Quote: “Anti-prayer/Anti-Christian groups – like the ACLU and Americans United for Separation of Church and State – have teamed up with liberal judges on the U.S. Supreme Court and are stripping away our religious freedom.” (Fall 2000 fund-raising letter)
Quote: “The [Supreme] Court has become increasingly hostile to Christianity. It represents more of a threat to representative government than any other force – more than budget deficits, more than terrorism.” (“Confronting the Judicial War on Faith” conference, March 7, 2005)
Falwell Quote: “Separation of Church and State has long been the battle cry of civil libertarians wishing to purge our glorious Christian heritage from our nation’s history. Of course, the term never once appears in our Constitution and is a modern fabrication of discrimination.” (“Falwell Fax,” April 10, 1998)
Sheldon Quote: “A dangerous Marxist/Leftist/Homosexual/Islamic coalition has formed – and we’d better be willing to fight it with everything in our power. These people are playing for keeps. Their hero, Mao Tse Tung, is estimated to have murdered upwards of 60 million people during his reign of terror in China. Do we think we can escape such persecution if we refuse to fight for what is right?” (“The War on Christianity,” column, TVC Web site, Dec. 13, 2005)
Source: [2] -- Filll 16:42, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
I appreciate your contributions in closing GARs, but I noticed that you closed one when only 1 person other than the nominator had voted. Please remember that the GAR is really more about consensus than about voting. When a unanimous 4-0 vote comes around, then that could be declared consensus, but 2-0 is rather low. Also, please do not count the nominator as a vote when you post the results of the GAR. Thank you, and I hope that you can continue to help in closing GARs. Diez2 03:37, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
I noticed you took part in the straw poll. Please visit the talk page to engage in the discussion, so we may build consensus. Vassyana 00:20, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
I was reviewing HiPER and noticed that it had a lack of inline citations. The editors noted that there are sources but they aren't published could you help and possibly give suggestions on how this can be resolved. Tarret 22:00, 20 February 2007 (UTC)