![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 5 | ← | Archive 8 | Archive 9 | Archive 10 | Archive 11 | Archive 12 | → | Archive 15 |
Hi Elonka, could you add a source to your recent edit on this article please. Thanks. → AA ( talk) — 20:26, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
I'm glad you liked the mosque picture, I took it a couple of years ago on my trip to Egypt. I had no idea what the mosque was called until I saw the DYK article; when I saw the article come up, I recognized the interior immediately and remembered I had a shot of the entrance!
Alas, I don't really have much else that isn't already documented on Wikipedia. But I hope to see some good articles on old Cairo come up, and one thing I am interested in is this: It is often asserted that the outer casing stones of the Giza pyramids were taken down in the middle ages to build the mosques and other buildings of Cairo, and I would be interested to see if any actual buildings containing some of these pyramid blocks still survive. Jeff Dahl 15:27, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
And you seem to be a consensus builder and from what I read about you here my respect has grown. Maybe you could take a look at a revert conflict or get some other uninterested but experienced wikipedians to look at the conflict at the Talk:EVE_Online page. The majority of the discussion is on my User talk:Alatari page per User:Richard Slater's suggestion. I have also asked about this on the Wikipedia talk:External links page and the Wikipedia:Help desk. My final post on the Talk:EVE_Online page is harsh but I strongly suspect bad faith dealings. Alatari 10:58, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
An editor seems to be frustrated at the lack of citations in your recent expansion of the Fustat article. See the comment at Wikipedia:Help_desk#An_editor_who_sometimes_doesn.27t_use_inline_citations. I left a link to a reference that I think would be useful at that help desk discussion. Hopefully you can work together to improve the referencing in the article. Happy editing :-). Sancho 04:52, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
Hello Elonka! How are you? Will you try again for adminship? Please let me know. I will support you. Thank you, RS2007 04:57, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
Hello Elonka. I saw where you reverted one of the links I removed from Aaron Proctor. No problem whatsoever, but would you mind terribly if I moved it to the "External links" section? I guess it just rubs me the wrong way to have the campaign website listed under "References". Please let me know what you think and thanks so much for your time. -- Satori Son 16:19, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
Would you be willing to take a second look as Broadwater Farm? I've done some slight rewriting as per your comments. As regards the individual points you raise:
If you're too busy, or you think there are any further problems, let me know; of all the articles I've written this is probably the one I'm most pleased with, despite its somewhat obscure nature, and I'd like to get it onto the GA list so others are more likely to improve it further (I've taken it as far as I can, I think) — iridescent (talk to me!) 16:24, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
![]() |
Zen Garden Award for Infinite Patience | |
A little birdie told me that you maybe could use a lift. You've kept your head through recent events a lot better than I would have, and you haven't let it drive you away from editing. Looking forward to seeing you at Hacking 201 again this year! LaMenta3 20:34, 29 August 2007 (UTC) |
Thanks for your presentation at Dragon*Con. Hopefully we got a few more new editors to join us with a headstart on understanding the community here, or at least helped some occasional editors who had a poor welcome to understand Wikipedia a bit more. Great job! - Fordan ( talk) 21:08, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi there - I don't know if you are still feeling a little sore about your RfA, but you certainly throw a great party. Feel free to invite me to the next one.
Have you ever been to Scotland? I was wandering home recently through Kilmartin Glen when I came across the following statement: “The swords shown on many of the stones refer to warrior (or, more broadly, social) status, and have no connection with the Templars or other medieval military orders, as is sometimes suggested.” I am not much of a history person, but even I am aware of the supposed Kilmartin-Templar connection. I slapped a fact tag on it and left a message on the Talk page, but if anyone is watching they are asleep. If you or any of your Templar chums have anything to add the wiki-gnomes would appreciate it. Ben MacDui (Talk) 13:32, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
As per your request I have uploaded another picture.
Date I think, 6th Jan 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Muhammad Mahdi Karim ( talk • contribs) 12:53, September 6, 2007
Both taken on same day. The times are available on the picture page under meta details. Feel free to upload them to commons. Muhammad Mahdi Karim 17:59, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
I wished to refer you to User:PHG but, since you seem to be in dispute with him, you will be well-served to get a third opinion from User:Adam Bishop (on medieval Palestine) and User:Latebird (on the Mongols). I suppose User:Briangotts and User:Srnec may be interested in commenting as well. -- Ghirla -трёп- 20:06, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi Elonka. I appreciate your point that de Molay's campaigns in the Holy Land in 1299-1300 may not have happened, but would you mind clarifying the sources for that? I also respect your addition to the caption of the 1299 painting of the capture of Jerusalem as being fanciful ("This fanciful depiction was commissioned in the 1800s, but is about an event in 1299 that did not actually occur".), but would you mind giving sources for this statement? Regards PHG 20:40, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi Elonka. My two main sources on this subject are "Histoires des Croisades", René Grousset, and "A History of the Crusades", Steven Runciman. They are both crystal clear and very specific about the Franco-Mongol alliance, and the article pretty much reflects their content. I was forgetting also several of the 13th century sources (Le Templier de Tyr, Hayton, the travels of Bar Sauma etc...), which are accessible online and extensively quoted in the article. By the way, I am not an expert on the Crusades period, so any new information on this subject is appreciated. Regards, PHG 21:04, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi Elonka, not I am not on IRC. As you will see, the Molay part is patched from various sources, and I wish I had some stronger reference to it (I ordered a few days ago a Molay biography from the French specialist of the field, so I should have better information there). Also on the involvement of the Templars in joint campaigns with the Mongols, you at least have Le Templier de Tyr (quoted in the article with online original):
"That year [1300], a message came to Cyprus from Ghazan, king of the Tatars, saying that he would come during the winter, and that he wished that the Frank join him in Armenia (...) Amalric of Lusignan, Constable of the Kingdom of Jerusalem, arrived in November (...) and brought with him 300 knights, and as many or more of the Templars and Hospitallers (...) In February a great admiral of the Tatars, named Cotlesser, came to Antioch with 60,000 horsemen, and requested the visit of the king of Armenia, who came with Guy of Ibelin, Count of Jaffa, and John, lord of Giblet. And when they arrived, Cotelesse told them that Ghazan had met great trouble of wind and cold on his way. Cotlesse raided the land from Haleppo to La Chemelle, and returned to his country without doing more". —Le Templier de Tyre, Chap 620-622
Going to bed now. Regards, PHG 21:32, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
You may wish to take a look at The Mongols in the Islamic Lands: Studies in the History of the Ilkhanate by Reuven Amitai. The following may also be helpful:
The Mongols by Jeremiah Curtin The Mongols by David Morgan Genghis Khan and the Making of the Modern World by Jack Weatherford
-- Briangotts (Talk) (Contrib) 17:51, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
I have the Weatherford book at home and will take a look if there's anything germane to the topic. The other two are searchable on Amazon.com. You may have luck finding useful bits in The Oxford Illustrated History of the Crusades by Jonathan Riley-Smith or Genghis Khan: Life, Death, and Resurrection by John Man, which are also searchable on Amazon.
The one you really want is the Amitai book, from what I've heard. Unfortunately, I don't have access to it. It just came out last month- you may be able to find a copy or may be able to get it through loan if you have access to a good academic library. Briangotts (Talk) (Contrib) 18:06, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
Answering your question.
It was people preforming tawaaf, (either nisaa, ziyarat, or wida) during the hajj season. Tawaaf Nisaa is part of Hajj for Shiites and I believe Tawaaf Ziyarat is obligatory for Sunnis as part of Hajj. Muhammad Mahdi Karim 13:53, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi Elonka. I like your image of the microcosm, and I am really glad that Wikipedia allows us to explore this amazing, and unlikely, area of Templar-Mongol interaction. Thank you for your nice and pleasant (most of the time:)) contributions. Best regards. PHG 23:14, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
PS:I sent you a Wikimail, which should give you my address. PHG 23:15, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
Pat Politics rule! 23:35, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
Hey Elonka. I'm not sure if your still interested in working on the Pauline Fowler article, but I've now rewritten it per all the suggestions on the talk page. All the storylines section has been cut, and i've included them all in the development section, which is now written in an OOU fashion throughout. We'd like to try and have a go at FA with it again. It would be good to hear what you think of the rewrite at some point :) Gung adin ♦ 18:36, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
Dear Elonka, all I write is referenced, there is no original there. On the contrary, I think you need to bring some specific reference to your claim that the Mongols did not take Jerusalem in 1299, because all references that I have (extensively quoted) indicate that they did. Best regards PHG 21:40, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
Just stumbled across your 'top ten' (via the AfD for StankDawg where we seem to hold opposing viewpoints ;) ), and enjoyed it. It may be a tad cynical, but I thought "Take Ignore all rules at face value" might make a possible addition?
Regards, EyeSerene TALK 22:28, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi Elonka, thanks for creating the Recueil des historiens des croisades article. I had been meaning to create it myself but I never got around to it! Adam Bishop 09:35, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi Elonka- Please let me know if more third party references are needed for the Century Council entry. Thanks. David Justin 13:42, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi Elonka, I would love to assist you, but I couldn't find the Armenian text you were referring to. I downloaded the Historiens Occidentaux, Tome I from the Crusades Encyclopedia thinking that was the file, but page 660 turned out to be in French. So I'm guessing that was the French version you wanted to compare the Armenian with. I will try to find the Armenian text and translate it for you. Also, it would probably be better to contact Hetoum I as well. He knows more about the Cilician Armenia and the Crusades. VartanM 02:16, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
don't take this revert personally. [2] but i don't quite see how jenin is a place of such importance to connect with the jezreel vally... perhaps you could persuade me on the article's talk page. the addition of a map would be a good idea also. Jaakobou Chalk Talk 02:50, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
Dear Elonka. Just understand I just woke up, and you already reverted several of my modifications of the morning (no, I am not on this 24 hours a day, far from it :)). Please realize 99% of the content you have been adding is staying in: you can allow the remaining 1% to be modified by other users don't you think? How about some tolerance here? PHG 04:40, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
Dear Elonka. I am afraid somebody is getting over-excited here... I just put forward again some of the important quotes in the article. Best regards. PHG 12:41, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
Dear Elonka. Since you ask... I actually had a great night, and the weather in Paris was amazing today. I ran 10km in a beautiful park this morning, and this afternoon I had an ice-cream with my kid... and in the meantime, I also had the great pleasure to work on Wikipedia for the preservation of fabulous sources (ancient and modern) which an editor, whatever his agenda, would rather see undermined, minimized, hidden or even erased. Elonka, let's work together for a balanced article, that fairly presents all the facts (ancient and modern) relevant to our subject matter. :):) Best regards. PHG 16:38, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi Elonka - I have a quick question. Is MySpace considered a reliable source, in regards to pop culture? For example, a band may have a MySpace, but is that considered a source for the band? Please reply here, as I'll have your page on watch. Thank you! Dh993 14:13, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
Hello, may I ask for your participation in an RFC established for user Bluemarine/Matt Sanchez? The reason for the Request for Comment is set out in the RFC summary here. Whether you support or oppose it, your input would be appreciated. Typing monkey 18:15, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi, Elonka. I removed the link you placed to a YouTube video, as well as a link to another video placed by an anonymous user. If you think the link is appropriate to the article, please discuss on the talk page. Thanks. -- Rob C. alias Alarob 15:30, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi Elonka. I made a very rough translation of what is considered to be a very reliable source in Hebrew, which, I believe, will explain some of the confusion. I am very interested in your source as well, as I must admit, I did not know about this historical tidbit before I started looking it up. I did go through about six books on the history of Jerusalem, and can only say that if Vilnai doesn't mention it, it is likely spurious. If I can provide any additional information, I have a fairly extensive library of Jerusalem history here at home, even if most of it is in Hebrew. Danny 00:05, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
hi Elonka, there's been some feedback in the GAC review on Talk:Fustat ( Talk:Fustat#GAC_review), most of which i attempted to address. a few of them i thought you might be in a better position to rectify, such as the other capitals section, or some of the other content issues raised. regards, ITAQALLAH 11:08, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Stanley Dunin, an article you created, has been nominated for deletion. We appreciate your contributions. However, an editor does not feel that Stanley Dunin satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in the nomination space (see also " What Wikipedia is not" and the Wikipedia deletion policy). Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Stanley Dunin 2 and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of Stanley Dunin during the discussion but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. CO 2 00:05, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
I am sorry I have not commented more on this topic ... yet. I have ordered the Demurger book (The Last Templar -- $1.35 plus shipping used) and plan on learning a bit more about the topic, so that I can discuss it from a more informed position. I suspect that there is some hyperbole about what the book actually says. Danny 13:30, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
A {{
prod}} template has been added to the article
Rodryg Dunin, suggesting that it be deleted according to the
proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but this article may not satisfy Wikipedia's
criteria for inclusion, and the deletion notice explains why (see also "
What Wikipedia is not" and
Wikipedia's deletion policy). You may contest the proposed deletion by removing the {{dated prod}}
notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on
its talk page. Also, please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the
proposed deletion process, the article may still be deleted if it matches any of the
speedy deletion criteria or it can be sent to
Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if
consensus to delete is reached. If you endorse deletion of the article, and you are the only person who has made substantial edits to the page, please tag it with {{
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2
14:31, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
Rodryg Dunin, an article you created, has been nominated for deletion. We appreciate your contributions. However, an editor does not feel that Rodryg Dunin satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in the nomination space (see also " What Wikipedia is not" and the Wikipedia deletion policy). Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rodryg Dunin 2 and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of Rodryg Dunin during the discussion but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. CO 2 15:48, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
Hello Elonka. You are a well known and pretty contoversial Wikipedia editor. You're articles on family members and yourself are constantly under scrutiny. Personally, I do believe some of them are notable, but others not so much... including your personal page. Here is my question, if you did not have so many Wiki-Allies would the articles still exsist? Additionally, what is the purpose of placing obscure family members on Wikipedia? These questions are not asked with any malicious intentions, merely curiosity. Thanks. м info 05:01, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
You have been sent one. :) Acalamari 18:21, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
Dear Elonka. This is so nice of you to attack me on all boards you can think of... Why don't you just stick with specifics and recognize what sources say? Balanced editing and NPOV presentation of sources should help you stay away from this kind of ridiculous arguments. Best regards. PHG 07:05, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi Elonka. I was browsing through the templates and I noticed this one, and it seems that it should be deleted. I wasn't really sure where I would go about doing that so I was just passing it along to the right person. Thanks! Dh993 23:23, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
Hello Elonka,
I happened to come across your contributions on the Franco-Mongol page and noticed that you have been engaging in an edit-war with PHG. You seem very reasonable in your position and sincere in your attempts at composing legitimate, accurate history. Although I am not as steeped in these details as you are, in my studies of world history, I did read of the french attempt at forging an alliance, but I also read that it was dismissed by the mongol court. In fact, when the islamic world was under siege from the Mongol invasion, there were accounts about how a number of european leaders refrained from pressing their advantage, recognizing the common threat from central asian tribes (the mongols after all did advance as far as Hungary). Regardless, I will not involve myself as I too have had numerous edit wars with PHG, and he would use my involvement as a means to slander you and your cause. I also wish to caution you:
I know how frustrating it can be to deal with someone who makes emotional appeals on NPOV when in reality he's pushing exactly the opposite. Don't let him intimidate you with baseless accusations, threats, and dialectical acrobatics. Please let me know if you have any questions. Best of luck in this debate. I hope the wikipedia administators recognize that your respectable attempts at forging consensus and ensuring accuracy must be supported.
Best Regards,
Devanampriya 16:18, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
Hey Elonka,
Did not mean to join in the Wikipedia review of PHG, but I saw that you were being attacked by outsiders so I figured I would bring forward my evidence in spite of the predictable knee jerk attacks on me. Not sure how much difference it will make ( I apologize for the length), but I, and other editors, have been meaning to complain about him for some time as well. Thank you for your courageous stand. Please let me know if you need anything else. Good luck!
Best,
Devanampriya 00:30, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
Windy City Dude 04:34, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
Hey Elonka,
My apologies again for the monster post. It appears my note was as unwieldly as phg's inane 160kb articles, heh, just a little joke for you there. Anyhow, I hope my new post helps you somewhat. As for your other questions:
Please let me know if you need anything else. I hope my condensed post was more helpful.
Best,
Devanampriya 05:53, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
Hello Elonka,
My apologies :(. It is just that PHG has a habit of ignoring inconvenient evidence and prematurely ending debate. I sincerely take your advice to heart and will make it a point to refrain from anything approaching incivility in all cases (although, I am only this heated with PHG and Co).
I did post one more time on the review page. I am not sure if it will help much, but at least I became the target instead of you ;). Anyhow, at this stage, I will defer to you in the matter. If you need specific resources or references, I am at your disposal. I believe it might be best if we refocus this discussion onto PHG, and to do that, I need to withdraw myself as a target for his antics. There is a clear cut case for original research (given the phg's flimsy foundations that even user ghirla has noticed). I suggest we focus on both that and PHG's tendency to OWN pages.
Sorry I could not be more effective. Please let me know if you require anything. Good luck!
Very Best Regards,
Devanampriya 01:50, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
P.S. Feel free to email me at Devanampriyadarshi@yahoo.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by Devanampriya ( talk • contribs) 01:55, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
Hi, Elonka. I appreciate your efforts to make Wikipedia a better place and would be delighted to work with you some day when I shall have more time for Wikipedia. You should excuse my statement about your need to always be in the right, if it is disconnected from reality, since it was not intended as a negative assessment of your general activity and was based primarily on my acquaintance with the recent RfA dramas which certaintly don't highlight the penchant for easy compromises you spoke of.
As for the matter at hand, I urge you and PHG to reconcile your differences without alleging some terrible misdeeds on the part of one's opponent. For as long as I know him, PHG has been given to speculative theories and building elaborate castles on rather flimsy foundations, but overall he is an inestimable contributor of material on rather obscure topics. I suppose you both have the best interests of Wikipedia at heart and will find a way to honourably emerge from this imbroglio. -- Ghirla -трёп- 12:49, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
Dear Elonka. Please kindly note I have filed a claim for "Editorial and procedural abuses by User:Elonka" on ANI: WP:ANI#Editorial and procedural abuses by User:Elonka. Best regards. PHG 18:27, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
LaMenta3 has smiled at you! Smiles promote
WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Happy editing!
Smile at others by adding {{
subst:Smile}} to their talk page with a friendly message.
Seems that you could use one of these things again. Take it easy and remember why we're all here to begin with: to have fun! LaMenta3 19:28, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 5 | ← | Archive 8 | Archive 9 | Archive 10 | Archive 11 | Archive 12 | → | Archive 15 |
Hi Elonka, could you add a source to your recent edit on this article please. Thanks. → AA ( talk) — 20:26, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
I'm glad you liked the mosque picture, I took it a couple of years ago on my trip to Egypt. I had no idea what the mosque was called until I saw the DYK article; when I saw the article come up, I recognized the interior immediately and remembered I had a shot of the entrance!
Alas, I don't really have much else that isn't already documented on Wikipedia. But I hope to see some good articles on old Cairo come up, and one thing I am interested in is this: It is often asserted that the outer casing stones of the Giza pyramids were taken down in the middle ages to build the mosques and other buildings of Cairo, and I would be interested to see if any actual buildings containing some of these pyramid blocks still survive. Jeff Dahl 15:27, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
And you seem to be a consensus builder and from what I read about you here my respect has grown. Maybe you could take a look at a revert conflict or get some other uninterested but experienced wikipedians to look at the conflict at the Talk:EVE_Online page. The majority of the discussion is on my User talk:Alatari page per User:Richard Slater's suggestion. I have also asked about this on the Wikipedia talk:External links page and the Wikipedia:Help desk. My final post on the Talk:EVE_Online page is harsh but I strongly suspect bad faith dealings. Alatari 10:58, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
An editor seems to be frustrated at the lack of citations in your recent expansion of the Fustat article. See the comment at Wikipedia:Help_desk#An_editor_who_sometimes_doesn.27t_use_inline_citations. I left a link to a reference that I think would be useful at that help desk discussion. Hopefully you can work together to improve the referencing in the article. Happy editing :-). Sancho 04:52, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
Hello Elonka! How are you? Will you try again for adminship? Please let me know. I will support you. Thank you, RS2007 04:57, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
Hello Elonka. I saw where you reverted one of the links I removed from Aaron Proctor. No problem whatsoever, but would you mind terribly if I moved it to the "External links" section? I guess it just rubs me the wrong way to have the campaign website listed under "References". Please let me know what you think and thanks so much for your time. -- Satori Son 16:19, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
Would you be willing to take a second look as Broadwater Farm? I've done some slight rewriting as per your comments. As regards the individual points you raise:
If you're too busy, or you think there are any further problems, let me know; of all the articles I've written this is probably the one I'm most pleased with, despite its somewhat obscure nature, and I'd like to get it onto the GA list so others are more likely to improve it further (I've taken it as far as I can, I think) — iridescent (talk to me!) 16:24, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
![]() |
Zen Garden Award for Infinite Patience | |
A little birdie told me that you maybe could use a lift. You've kept your head through recent events a lot better than I would have, and you haven't let it drive you away from editing. Looking forward to seeing you at Hacking 201 again this year! LaMenta3 20:34, 29 August 2007 (UTC) |
Thanks for your presentation at Dragon*Con. Hopefully we got a few more new editors to join us with a headstart on understanding the community here, or at least helped some occasional editors who had a poor welcome to understand Wikipedia a bit more. Great job! - Fordan ( talk) 21:08, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi there - I don't know if you are still feeling a little sore about your RfA, but you certainly throw a great party. Feel free to invite me to the next one.
Have you ever been to Scotland? I was wandering home recently through Kilmartin Glen when I came across the following statement: “The swords shown on many of the stones refer to warrior (or, more broadly, social) status, and have no connection with the Templars or other medieval military orders, as is sometimes suggested.” I am not much of a history person, but even I am aware of the supposed Kilmartin-Templar connection. I slapped a fact tag on it and left a message on the Talk page, but if anyone is watching they are asleep. If you or any of your Templar chums have anything to add the wiki-gnomes would appreciate it. Ben MacDui (Talk) 13:32, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
As per your request I have uploaded another picture.
Date I think, 6th Jan 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Muhammad Mahdi Karim ( talk • contribs) 12:53, September 6, 2007
Both taken on same day. The times are available on the picture page under meta details. Feel free to upload them to commons. Muhammad Mahdi Karim 17:59, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
I wished to refer you to User:PHG but, since you seem to be in dispute with him, you will be well-served to get a third opinion from User:Adam Bishop (on medieval Palestine) and User:Latebird (on the Mongols). I suppose User:Briangotts and User:Srnec may be interested in commenting as well. -- Ghirla -трёп- 20:06, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi Elonka. I appreciate your point that de Molay's campaigns in the Holy Land in 1299-1300 may not have happened, but would you mind clarifying the sources for that? I also respect your addition to the caption of the 1299 painting of the capture of Jerusalem as being fanciful ("This fanciful depiction was commissioned in the 1800s, but is about an event in 1299 that did not actually occur".), but would you mind giving sources for this statement? Regards PHG 20:40, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi Elonka. My two main sources on this subject are "Histoires des Croisades", René Grousset, and "A History of the Crusades", Steven Runciman. They are both crystal clear and very specific about the Franco-Mongol alliance, and the article pretty much reflects their content. I was forgetting also several of the 13th century sources (Le Templier de Tyr, Hayton, the travels of Bar Sauma etc...), which are accessible online and extensively quoted in the article. By the way, I am not an expert on the Crusades period, so any new information on this subject is appreciated. Regards, PHG 21:04, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi Elonka, not I am not on IRC. As you will see, the Molay part is patched from various sources, and I wish I had some stronger reference to it (I ordered a few days ago a Molay biography from the French specialist of the field, so I should have better information there). Also on the involvement of the Templars in joint campaigns with the Mongols, you at least have Le Templier de Tyr (quoted in the article with online original):
"That year [1300], a message came to Cyprus from Ghazan, king of the Tatars, saying that he would come during the winter, and that he wished that the Frank join him in Armenia (...) Amalric of Lusignan, Constable of the Kingdom of Jerusalem, arrived in November (...) and brought with him 300 knights, and as many or more of the Templars and Hospitallers (...) In February a great admiral of the Tatars, named Cotlesser, came to Antioch with 60,000 horsemen, and requested the visit of the king of Armenia, who came with Guy of Ibelin, Count of Jaffa, and John, lord of Giblet. And when they arrived, Cotelesse told them that Ghazan had met great trouble of wind and cold on his way. Cotlesse raided the land from Haleppo to La Chemelle, and returned to his country without doing more". —Le Templier de Tyre, Chap 620-622
Going to bed now. Regards, PHG 21:32, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
You may wish to take a look at The Mongols in the Islamic Lands: Studies in the History of the Ilkhanate by Reuven Amitai. The following may also be helpful:
The Mongols by Jeremiah Curtin The Mongols by David Morgan Genghis Khan and the Making of the Modern World by Jack Weatherford
-- Briangotts (Talk) (Contrib) 17:51, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
I have the Weatherford book at home and will take a look if there's anything germane to the topic. The other two are searchable on Amazon.com. You may have luck finding useful bits in The Oxford Illustrated History of the Crusades by Jonathan Riley-Smith or Genghis Khan: Life, Death, and Resurrection by John Man, which are also searchable on Amazon.
The one you really want is the Amitai book, from what I've heard. Unfortunately, I don't have access to it. It just came out last month- you may be able to find a copy or may be able to get it through loan if you have access to a good academic library. Briangotts (Talk) (Contrib) 18:06, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
Answering your question.
It was people preforming tawaaf, (either nisaa, ziyarat, or wida) during the hajj season. Tawaaf Nisaa is part of Hajj for Shiites and I believe Tawaaf Ziyarat is obligatory for Sunnis as part of Hajj. Muhammad Mahdi Karim 13:53, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi Elonka. I like your image of the microcosm, and I am really glad that Wikipedia allows us to explore this amazing, and unlikely, area of Templar-Mongol interaction. Thank you for your nice and pleasant (most of the time:)) contributions. Best regards. PHG 23:14, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
PS:I sent you a Wikimail, which should give you my address. PHG 23:15, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
Pat Politics rule! 23:35, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
Hey Elonka. I'm not sure if your still interested in working on the Pauline Fowler article, but I've now rewritten it per all the suggestions on the talk page. All the storylines section has been cut, and i've included them all in the development section, which is now written in an OOU fashion throughout. We'd like to try and have a go at FA with it again. It would be good to hear what you think of the rewrite at some point :) Gung adin ♦ 18:36, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
Dear Elonka, all I write is referenced, there is no original there. On the contrary, I think you need to bring some specific reference to your claim that the Mongols did not take Jerusalem in 1299, because all references that I have (extensively quoted) indicate that they did. Best regards PHG 21:40, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
Just stumbled across your 'top ten' (via the AfD for StankDawg where we seem to hold opposing viewpoints ;) ), and enjoyed it. It may be a tad cynical, but I thought "Take Ignore all rules at face value" might make a possible addition?
Regards, EyeSerene TALK 22:28, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi Elonka, thanks for creating the Recueil des historiens des croisades article. I had been meaning to create it myself but I never got around to it! Adam Bishop 09:35, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi Elonka- Please let me know if more third party references are needed for the Century Council entry. Thanks. David Justin 13:42, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi Elonka, I would love to assist you, but I couldn't find the Armenian text you were referring to. I downloaded the Historiens Occidentaux, Tome I from the Crusades Encyclopedia thinking that was the file, but page 660 turned out to be in French. So I'm guessing that was the French version you wanted to compare the Armenian with. I will try to find the Armenian text and translate it for you. Also, it would probably be better to contact Hetoum I as well. He knows more about the Cilician Armenia and the Crusades. VartanM 02:16, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
don't take this revert personally. [2] but i don't quite see how jenin is a place of such importance to connect with the jezreel vally... perhaps you could persuade me on the article's talk page. the addition of a map would be a good idea also. Jaakobou Chalk Talk 02:50, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
Dear Elonka. Just understand I just woke up, and you already reverted several of my modifications of the morning (no, I am not on this 24 hours a day, far from it :)). Please realize 99% of the content you have been adding is staying in: you can allow the remaining 1% to be modified by other users don't you think? How about some tolerance here? PHG 04:40, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
Dear Elonka. I am afraid somebody is getting over-excited here... I just put forward again some of the important quotes in the article. Best regards. PHG 12:41, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
Dear Elonka. Since you ask... I actually had a great night, and the weather in Paris was amazing today. I ran 10km in a beautiful park this morning, and this afternoon I had an ice-cream with my kid... and in the meantime, I also had the great pleasure to work on Wikipedia for the preservation of fabulous sources (ancient and modern) which an editor, whatever his agenda, would rather see undermined, minimized, hidden or even erased. Elonka, let's work together for a balanced article, that fairly presents all the facts (ancient and modern) relevant to our subject matter. :):) Best regards. PHG 16:38, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi Elonka - I have a quick question. Is MySpace considered a reliable source, in regards to pop culture? For example, a band may have a MySpace, but is that considered a source for the band? Please reply here, as I'll have your page on watch. Thank you! Dh993 14:13, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
Hello, may I ask for your participation in an RFC established for user Bluemarine/Matt Sanchez? The reason for the Request for Comment is set out in the RFC summary here. Whether you support or oppose it, your input would be appreciated. Typing monkey 18:15, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi, Elonka. I removed the link you placed to a YouTube video, as well as a link to another video placed by an anonymous user. If you think the link is appropriate to the article, please discuss on the talk page. Thanks. -- Rob C. alias Alarob 15:30, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi Elonka. I made a very rough translation of what is considered to be a very reliable source in Hebrew, which, I believe, will explain some of the confusion. I am very interested in your source as well, as I must admit, I did not know about this historical tidbit before I started looking it up. I did go through about six books on the history of Jerusalem, and can only say that if Vilnai doesn't mention it, it is likely spurious. If I can provide any additional information, I have a fairly extensive library of Jerusalem history here at home, even if most of it is in Hebrew. Danny 00:05, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
hi Elonka, there's been some feedback in the GAC review on Talk:Fustat ( Talk:Fustat#GAC_review), most of which i attempted to address. a few of them i thought you might be in a better position to rectify, such as the other capitals section, or some of the other content issues raised. regards, ITAQALLAH 11:08, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Stanley Dunin, an article you created, has been nominated for deletion. We appreciate your contributions. However, an editor does not feel that Stanley Dunin satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in the nomination space (see also " What Wikipedia is not" and the Wikipedia deletion policy). Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Stanley Dunin 2 and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of Stanley Dunin during the discussion but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. CO 2 00:05, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
I am sorry I have not commented more on this topic ... yet. I have ordered the Demurger book (The Last Templar -- $1.35 plus shipping used) and plan on learning a bit more about the topic, so that I can discuss it from a more informed position. I suspect that there is some hyperbole about what the book actually says. Danny 13:30, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
A {{
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Rodryg Dunin, suggesting that it be deleted according to the
proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but this article may not satisfy Wikipedia's
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2
14:31, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
Rodryg Dunin, an article you created, has been nominated for deletion. We appreciate your contributions. However, an editor does not feel that Rodryg Dunin satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in the nomination space (see also " What Wikipedia is not" and the Wikipedia deletion policy). Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rodryg Dunin 2 and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of Rodryg Dunin during the discussion but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. CO 2 15:48, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
Hello Elonka. You are a well known and pretty contoversial Wikipedia editor. You're articles on family members and yourself are constantly under scrutiny. Personally, I do believe some of them are notable, but others not so much... including your personal page. Here is my question, if you did not have so many Wiki-Allies would the articles still exsist? Additionally, what is the purpose of placing obscure family members on Wikipedia? These questions are not asked with any malicious intentions, merely curiosity. Thanks. м info 05:01, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
You have been sent one. :) Acalamari 18:21, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
Dear Elonka. This is so nice of you to attack me on all boards you can think of... Why don't you just stick with specifics and recognize what sources say? Balanced editing and NPOV presentation of sources should help you stay away from this kind of ridiculous arguments. Best regards. PHG 07:05, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi Elonka. I was browsing through the templates and I noticed this one, and it seems that it should be deleted. I wasn't really sure where I would go about doing that so I was just passing it along to the right person. Thanks! Dh993 23:23, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
Hello Elonka,
I happened to come across your contributions on the Franco-Mongol page and noticed that you have been engaging in an edit-war with PHG. You seem very reasonable in your position and sincere in your attempts at composing legitimate, accurate history. Although I am not as steeped in these details as you are, in my studies of world history, I did read of the french attempt at forging an alliance, but I also read that it was dismissed by the mongol court. In fact, when the islamic world was under siege from the Mongol invasion, there were accounts about how a number of european leaders refrained from pressing their advantage, recognizing the common threat from central asian tribes (the mongols after all did advance as far as Hungary). Regardless, I will not involve myself as I too have had numerous edit wars with PHG, and he would use my involvement as a means to slander you and your cause. I also wish to caution you:
I know how frustrating it can be to deal with someone who makes emotional appeals on NPOV when in reality he's pushing exactly the opposite. Don't let him intimidate you with baseless accusations, threats, and dialectical acrobatics. Please let me know if you have any questions. Best of luck in this debate. I hope the wikipedia administators recognize that your respectable attempts at forging consensus and ensuring accuracy must be supported.
Best Regards,
Devanampriya 16:18, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
Hey Elonka,
Did not mean to join in the Wikipedia review of PHG, but I saw that you were being attacked by outsiders so I figured I would bring forward my evidence in spite of the predictable knee jerk attacks on me. Not sure how much difference it will make ( I apologize for the length), but I, and other editors, have been meaning to complain about him for some time as well. Thank you for your courageous stand. Please let me know if you need anything else. Good luck!
Best,
Devanampriya 00:30, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
Windy City Dude 04:34, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
Hey Elonka,
My apologies again for the monster post. It appears my note was as unwieldly as phg's inane 160kb articles, heh, just a little joke for you there. Anyhow, I hope my new post helps you somewhat. As for your other questions:
Please let me know if you need anything else. I hope my condensed post was more helpful.
Best,
Devanampriya 05:53, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
Hello Elonka,
My apologies :(. It is just that PHG has a habit of ignoring inconvenient evidence and prematurely ending debate. I sincerely take your advice to heart and will make it a point to refrain from anything approaching incivility in all cases (although, I am only this heated with PHG and Co).
I did post one more time on the review page. I am not sure if it will help much, but at least I became the target instead of you ;). Anyhow, at this stage, I will defer to you in the matter. If you need specific resources or references, I am at your disposal. I believe it might be best if we refocus this discussion onto PHG, and to do that, I need to withdraw myself as a target for his antics. There is a clear cut case for original research (given the phg's flimsy foundations that even user ghirla has noticed). I suggest we focus on both that and PHG's tendency to OWN pages.
Sorry I could not be more effective. Please let me know if you require anything. Good luck!
Very Best Regards,
Devanampriya 01:50, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
P.S. Feel free to email me at Devanampriyadarshi@yahoo.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by Devanampriya ( talk • contribs) 01:55, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
Hi, Elonka. I appreciate your efforts to make Wikipedia a better place and would be delighted to work with you some day when I shall have more time for Wikipedia. You should excuse my statement about your need to always be in the right, if it is disconnected from reality, since it was not intended as a negative assessment of your general activity and was based primarily on my acquaintance with the recent RfA dramas which certaintly don't highlight the penchant for easy compromises you spoke of.
As for the matter at hand, I urge you and PHG to reconcile your differences without alleging some terrible misdeeds on the part of one's opponent. For as long as I know him, PHG has been given to speculative theories and building elaborate castles on rather flimsy foundations, but overall he is an inestimable contributor of material on rather obscure topics. I suppose you both have the best interests of Wikipedia at heart and will find a way to honourably emerge from this imbroglio. -- Ghirla -трёп- 12:49, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
Dear Elonka. Please kindly note I have filed a claim for "Editorial and procedural abuses by User:Elonka" on ANI: WP:ANI#Editorial and procedural abuses by User:Elonka. Best regards. PHG 18:27, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
LaMenta3 has smiled at you! Smiles promote
WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Happy editing!
Smile at others by adding {{
subst:Smile}} to their talk page with a friendly message.
Seems that you could use one of these things again. Take it easy and remember why we're all here to begin with: to have fun! LaMenta3 19:28, 3 October 2007 (UTC)