The content of this page is an archive of User talk:Durin. Please do not modify it.
Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:
I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this: ~~~. Four tildes (~~~~) produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome! - UtherSRG 01:38, Apr 8, 2005 (UTC)
Thanks! -- Durin 01:51, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Hi! A few days ago I started to complete the List of ships of the United States Navy--and soon found it was way too big for one page. I split it by pushing all the decommissioned ships out onto the [[List of all ships of the United States Navy, <InitialLetter>]] pages, leaving only the active ships (and those which will be). So, I'm taking USS Fearless (MSO-442) back off the main page. Incidently, the ship's page doesn't say anything about the hull, but as a minesweeper I presume it's some sort of wood construction, which seems noteworthy. —wwoods 06:41, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)
If you examine the history [1]., and look at the "last" links for the edits in January and December, you'll see that some anonymous editors were having a bit of fun. I don't usually remember to put image pages on my watchlist, which is how they got away with it for so long. Stan 02:51, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Thank you for giving me credit for the articles I actually have completed. However, I still believe Dream Guy is a real creep (just read the things that other people have to say about him). I agree to cease and desist with the vandalism, you, unlike DreamGuy, actually come to me like I am a human being, instead of some idiot. I appreciate that a lot. I am going to try to contribute to Spanish Wikipedia, but I still get lazy writing those articles. On a related note, you can help me on the article on William Lynch.
P.S. I saw your notice on the W. Lynch ad and I agree that it needs clean up. I confess, I am not going to take "all" my time to complete Wikipedia articles (after all it is free). I am too lazy. (Why do you all do that) ... Just playing. But listen, please assist me on this article. The information is too hard to find on such a topic. Anything you can post regarding dates, or whatever, will really help me out a lot. I think that it important what people realize the impact he had on the Southern slave community. I also feel it is a shame that it took Wikipedia so long to have an article on such an important man. Please help me on this article.
Yours truly,
Signed (I don't know my IP address from memory) lol. (:
Dont forget to sig your posts/vots, like on Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Nick vs. Andy just add a ~~~~ and the system will sig it for you. -- Boothy443 | comhrÚ 06:08, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Indeed, the same user seems to be putting up a whole bunch of family history articles. I've put notes (based on Template:Vanity) at User talk:70.242.12.105 and then User talk:Dbail999 - let's hope we can win this newcomer over to the good side gently. Samaritan 02:00, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Heyas. Wikipedia let me move Herman B. Wells to Herman B Wells which I saw you tried to do before. Just thought I'd let you know. I was going to update your user page since it was one of the links that pointed to Herman B. Wells but I decided that it was too bold. You can certainly change it if you want though! Anyway, just thought you'd like to know. - SocratesJedi | Talk 17:43, 5 May 2005 (UTC)
I moved the article that I had posted to William Lynch Speech, I added several changes and an external source, so I think it should be up to the quality-or at least close to- that of Wikipedia by now. Dbraceyrules 20:32, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
Given the content of the tables seems identical I think it hardly matters which one goes. Just make sure that one of them is linked to on the ships wikiproject class footer table list. David Newton 06:49, 20 May 2005 (UTC)
I've moved the VfD pointer for this article. The user has created articles for all of his teachers. We might as well vote on all of them at once. -- Xcali 21:47, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
No worries about the user page comment. Last time I checked, we were all human. I've done it myself. -- Xcali 22:10, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Sounds good - I wasn't opposed to having an article there at all - just opposed to having that particular article there, which seemed wholly unhelpful. Snowspinner 23:40, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)
content was "Maurice Goode,Jr. born( August 21, 1991 in Memphis,Tennessee).Phenominal basketball player who plays for Craigmont High School" i.e. substub speedied for little or no content, the kid can't spell and is obviously very vain. Dunc| ☺ 20:54, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
(Belated) thanks for these links. I haven't had much time for Wikipedia lately, but when I do they'll be useful. —wwoods 03:17, 27 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for the help. Some of the info pertaining to Missouri's historical status I incoporated into the "1993-present" section. Also, I reworked the pictures in the "WWII" sections to make the article more atractive to the eye. And a HUGE thank-you for the radar and other electronic specs; I had been hoping that someone would insert those into the article. TomStar81 1 July 2005 22:28 (UTC)
Please consider adding yourself to Category: Indiana Wikipedians.
Thanks! Kurt Weber 8 July 2005 21:21 (UTC)
You're absolutely right. I made the mistake of doing some RC patrolling during a stressful part of the day and the amount of vanity articles, vandal bot stubs and just plain weird stuff that came in during that time was overwhelming. Got a bit hot under the collar. Sorry 'bout the flare-up. - Lucky 6.9 21:56, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for the congratulations. There would be some links between your old and new name if you changed, though these could probbably be minimised. There's no real policy on this yet but what could be help is to record the change as "<name removed> changed to newname" rather than displaying your old name in the archived requests page. However, the automatic log isn't editable, and the old name would show up in that. You would need to change the links to your user page manually. Your original signature would still be in the page history. Angela . 02:14, July 15, 2005 (UTC)
This article is not speediable. It is a candidate for VfD, but it does not meet criteria for speedy deletion. Please see this page for which articles can and cannot be speedied. Thanks. Denni ☯ 02:04, 2005 July 17 (UTC)
Hey, dont mean to be writing on you page but I didn't know any other way to contact you. You have marked my SmartCOP page as a possible copyright infringement. However, I am posting the paper on behalf of the author of the paper and the creator of SmartCOP. So, please undo what you did or direct me on how to post this information. Thanks unsigned edit by 157.127.124.134 ( talk · contribs)
Thanks for the message, and I have added the category to my user page. I have also expanded the information on Lake Monroe, and if you have anything else to add it would be a great help. Thanks. Eightball 21:00, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for correcting that typo on my user page. I appreciate it! -- Canderson 7 16:19, July 25, 2005 (UTC)
OK - you convinced us :) {{ Horseracing-stub}} is off and racing! Grutness... wha? 01:52, 30 July 2005 (UTC)
Hello! I noticed in one your image contributions that you have made a graph of edits made to a page. Do you have a good solution to this question I asked on the reference desk a while ago? Please let me know if you do! Thanks! -- HappyCamper 21:28, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
Although you created Image:Olympicsicon.gif yourself, the IOC owns rights to the symbol. You might want to mention something in the image description that there are restrictions on the use of the symbol. You already are aware of the message in Image:Olympic-rings.png. ( SEWilco 17:32, 16 August 2005 (UTC))
Hiya. Just wanted to thank you for supporting my recent RfA. Cheers! -- Ngb 19:20, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
I considered using PG-13 for the title of this ship, however, this appears to be a neoligism at best. The hull classification system wasn't instituted until 1920, and this ship was decommissioned and struck by that time. The DANFS history makes no reference to this designation. However, I don't feel strongly about it and would be fine with a move and redirect, if you'd like. She apparently was called "Gunboat Number 13," and her sister ships received the hull classification of "PG" and you have the NHC reference, so it isn't completely outside the scope. Jinian 19:30, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
I renamed them because Frankfurt has a rather complicated, overlapping division structure that includes larger Stadtbezirke which, I think, more closely correspond to the word district (it also has smaller units as well). At least one of these categories will probably have to use a foreign word. These still need to be added. What really needs to be done is translate all of the German articles about different German forms of city organization and federal organization. Gemeinde, Kreise, Stadtteile, Stadtbezirke, Ortsteile, etc. These are often not easy to translate to English. There are similar issues across all of German geography. Tfine80 15:20, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
Yes, the reason that they are stubs first is that I wanted to transfer the templates in a methodical way and then let people translate the articles from the German during the creation of the Wikireader for Wikimania and then at Wikimania itself. I plan to continually update these. And a lot of other German cities have separate categories... See districts of Berlin, for example. But, you're right, a lot of work still needs to be done. You can join us at Wikipedia:Wikiproject Frankfurt if you are interested in the city's organization. Tfine80 15:26, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
Perhaps the categories should be in English... I will have a vote in the Wikiproject about what to name them. There should be a standard between all of the other German, Austrian, Swiss cities. Perhaps boroughs and districts are the best way, but I would need to ask someone from Frankfurt. Tfine80 15:40, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
Btw, I just realized I didn't even rename it in the first place. I made the template and was working on it from the beginning. Tfine80 15:45, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for bringing that to my attention. It get confusing when taking pictures from NavSource sometimes as the majority of them are usually US Navy images. Every once in a while there's one of these copyrighted ones that users have submitted and it must have slipped by me. Thanks for catching it and replacing it. -- ScottyBoy900Q ∞ 21:52, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
I only just now saw your reply to the Wikipedia:Copyright problems#August 11 section where you claimed that several book covers did not fall under fair use. I'm afraid your arguments don;t really make sense. Yes, those images were taken from the website and not scanned, but that makes no difference. Yes, they claim ownership of the image, but then that's not any different from any other image, scanned or not. Doing your own scan of a book does not effect the ownership of that image in any way, even though you scanned it it is still owned by the copyright owner just as if you lifted it off their website. Fair use is a legal exception to copyright law, so the fact that you can quote a sentence from their website saying that they owned it doesn't matter. I strongly recommend you not lable any more book covers as copyright violations, and I hope you withdraw your complaints about these, as the page is already overflowing with real violations. Thanks. DreamGuy 04:17, August 27, 2005 (UTC)
Not much we can do about the log since it's read only and recreating and redeleting the page will only append to it. The log entries won't show up in mirrors or in most web searches, however, so you may find that it doesn't matter much in practice. Since other users follow the deletion log to check for out-of-process deletions, I had to supply a reason when deleting the page. The Uninvited Co., Inc. 16:07, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
Hey could you please, if its not a problem, make a graph showing my edit count
[2] and put it on
my Rfa. I'd think it'd be interesting to see how my edits are.
Jobe
6
22:15, September 7, 2005 (UTC)
Hey Durin, thanks for your vote on my recent RFA, your support was appreciated :) -- Joolz 11:27, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
Hi! Just wanted to let you know that your user page wasn't vandalized. Category:Indiana Wikipedians is being merged into Category:Wikipedians in Indiana. Just wanted to let you know ;-). Roby Wayne Talk • Hist 03:06, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
Greetings. I did not take a voluntary break from editing Wikipedia from June to August of this year. My husband and I had been sharing a house with a (now former) friend from January; in early June, relations with her began to deteriorate, culminating in my husband and I needing to flee our former residence at half past midnight on a Sunday night, after our roommate flipped out and started making threats of violence against us. We then needed to find a new place to live, extract our possessions from the crazy woman's house (still not entirely complete—she refuses to turn over some of our more valuable possessions, like my husband's wedding ring), and get our Internet connection hooked back up, in the middle of a telco strike. -- IceKarma 18:33, 19 September 2005 UTC
I like the edit graphs you periodically put on RfAs. How do you make them? I was thinking of doing some myself. Andre ( talk) 19:15, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
I've noticed you use a lookup table to convert month name to number. A slightly simpler way would be a function call, such as:
=MONTH(CONCATENATE("1-",F2,"-05"))
so H2 would now read:
=IF(C2<>"",MONTH(CONCATENATE("1-",F2,"-05")),"")
Of course you can change the "1-" and "-05" to any strings that give a valid date. (But by this point you could simply concatenate the original three fields into a valid date...) Owen× ☎ 20:20, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
Hi, thanks for your helpful suggestions. I had already decided to wait until I had at least 1,500 edits. I expect that I might get from 1,500 to 2,000 quite quickly, as I'll have finished exams at that stage. I don't expect to go up before November, anyway, and if I don't feel confident at that stage, I'll wait even longer. There are a lot of things I want to find out, first, so that I really feel like an experienced Wikipedian. What does "bot" mean? When should I use – and when should I use — ? Should references (linking to documents of other websites) be done like [this] or like [this]? And so on.All the information is there, but I have to browse through Wikipedia a bit longer to familiarize myself with it. Ann Heneghan (talk) 00:34, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for taking the time to spell out your views on User:V. Molotov's RFA on his talk page. (I took advantage by following it with a "me too" message.) FreplySpang (talk) 20:10, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
For your charts making the WP:RFA process easier to understand, I give you the The Graphic Designer's Barnstar. Congrats. Zach (Sound Off) 21:10, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
Hello, Durin, great work on the graphs on the RfA! I read your explanatory page on the graphy, and I would be interested in seeing a graph of my edits. I am an admin already, and do have 4000+ edits. I know you're busy, so you might not have time to fulfill my request, but I thought it would be nice to see a visual of all my edits. If you do one for me, thanks, and if you don't, thanks anyways for creating such a great service! Your efforts are appreciated. Flcelloguy | A note? | Desk | W S 21:28, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
Yes, I meant the Wikimedia Quarto -- hmmm, no Wikipedia article yet. The Statistics part of the reports page is its most popular section; we're planning to have a separate page for statistical reports starting with WQ 4 & 5 (covering April thru June and July thru September). Brian0918 and Erik Zachte have been very helpful so far; but there is enough work to merit a proper stats team each quarter. It would be lovely to have some extra statistics on users of the English Wikipedia, which is still many times larger than the next few largest projects combined... something like % of edits with summaries, or % of new articles by IPs, or # of edits per week by the week's top 10 editors [maybe per day, if there are interesting variations]. There is a lot to work with; perhaps you have better ideas of your own! +sj + 21:45, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
Oops! Talk about the pot calling the kettle black... I accuse bob of not using Edit summaries and then I forget to sign! I guess I shouldn't be editing past my bedtime. :P Thanks for filling in my signature! Owen× ☎ 22:08, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
MarkGallagher told me you made a graph for someone's edits... did you use a script for that or did you do that all manually? Cause I'd like a graph like that for myself, but I've got over 8000 edits so thatd take me forever if its manual... R e dwolf24 ( talk) 04:10, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
Nichalp; I'll use png and date form as you suggested. -- Durin 13:44, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
Thanks a lot! I gotta go to school REALLY soon so I'll make this quick. 52 edits? If you take away May, where I have 0 edits, I have 68 edits per day! Also, edit summaries, I dont summarize on user talk pages, look at my edit distrib. Gtg now. R e dwolf24 ( talk) 14:19, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
I know I'm not an admin nominee, nor that I have less than 2000, so my chances are slim to none, but I had to ask ;) would you consider doing a chart for me? -- ( ☺drini♫| ☎) 03:00, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
I would love to get a chart done. :) Already an admin and I have well over 15000 edits, I'd just be interested in seeing how my editing has evolved. Thanks in advance. :) -- Golbez 03:15, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
My dear Durin, I am touched by your words of encouragement, and deeply moved that you took the time to send them to me. This shows your quality as a great person, and you can be sure that I'll never forget them. In moments like this I should hold myself from becoming too emotional, something that I'm afraid has become all too evident at my RfA :( But I can't help it; hey, that's me!
All I wish to say is a plain old boring "thank you", said from the heart. As I said, I know that you acted with conscience and good will as a responsible member of the community, and for that, I praise you wholeheartedly. You are a hard working contributor, an extremely talented one, and I rest assured that you'll be a hundred times better as an admin as I could ever aspire to be. I sincerely want to put your mind at rest that I never felt attacked from you, nor by any other voter. My unrest came from the mantle of suspicion that I felt in Grace's words, that my late edits looked too much like I was pumping up my edit count. From a neutral perspective, I understand her position, and I don't blame her in the least; as you said, a 12 sigma change is an astonishing change (whatever a sigma change is! I have no clue of technical statistics, but I can infere the meaning
). The thing was, I explained the motives with nothing but the truth, yet I saw more people adhering to Grace's idea, and no word of reply from her. That's when I felt like "hey, I've never done anything wrong, my record is clean, never been in a serious edit dispute, always treated everyone with respect, worked hard to provide everyone with only the best quality material I can write... does that mean nothing to you guys? What happened to the 'Assume good faith' thing?" But your beautiful and truthful words, the caring support of my dear Wiglaf (you know you two can get along, do you?) and those of other good friends, and everyone else who gave me their support; even those who, like Ryan Norton, had good things to say about me but felt they needed to see more, have shown me the truth. I must get used to the idea that 'Assuming good faith' is something that some people will never embrace, and that's doesn't make them any worse than anyone else; it's just how they are. Only because it is deeply rooted within my nature doesn't make me more true than them. Grace herself strikes me as a great person, and echoing her words, I don't want to be critical; perhaps all she needs it to know me more.
These last three days have been the most intense wikitime I've ever had; and at the moment, all I can think is that, whatever the outcame is, I've gained more than I could have expected. I've gained lots of experience and most important, new good friends that I hope to keep as long as I can. I hope you like to consider me as such from now on.
You know, I really get carried on when writing? Jesus, look how many words! You know how many edits I could have done in this time? (bad editcountitis joke). I think it's time to release you. Thank you so much for your words. They really meant a lot to me. Btw, I guess I should go and vote at "someone"s RfA... Will you excuse me now? Hugs, Shauri Yes babe? 23:35, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
Thank you for your kind support of my recent nomination on RfA. The chart you compiled of my edit history was of great interest. By the way, I was delighted to support your own candidacy once mine had run its course - you'll be a fine admin. Best regards, RobertG ♬ talk 09:27, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
Hi, Durin, I noticed your comment here. I'd like to be able to remind myself of stuff. What's a tickler file, please? Bishonen | talk 18:32, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
Per my personal tradition, whenever I vote yes in RFA, I offer the candidate not just a barnstar, but a whole barn due to the vast responsibilities that they'll soon have to face. Maybe you can store the extras of your awesome chart in there :-) Karmafist 00:41, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
Could you provide one of your charts for Graft's RFA nom? I think it would be useful. Dragons flight 13:47, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
Hi, I just tried to use your chart from the formulas you had on User:Durin/Admin nominee charts, but no dice. Can you help? Also, I redirected the link at the bottom of that page that went to your contributions page directly towards the charts section. Excuse me if that was rude, I was just trying to help. Karmafist 16:31, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
G'day Durin. May I say that I share your views about edit counts. Regarding the chart, I followed your instructions and it was all successfully bar the formula for column G in the second worksheet.
Your instructions state:
Then, in column G I add in this function:
"=IF(ISNA(VLOOKUP(F2,$A$2:$B$175,2,FALSE)),0,VLOOKUP(F2,$A$2:$B$175,2,FALSE)")
and copy it to every subsequent row used in column F.
This formula kept generating zeros. In the end I had to manually enter the no. of the edits per day into column G. Can you tell me if this formula is correct. Regards Ianblair23 04:16, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
Congratulations, you are now a sysop - and well deserved too, on a 61/0 vote! If you have not already done so, now is the time to read the Wikipedia:Administrators' how-to guide and Wikipedia:Administrators' reading list. All the best, Warofdreams talk 14:43, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
Disagree? Can you explain on what basis (I am confused). Thanks. Guettarda 17:01, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
Congratulations on your new adminship! And thank you for your helpful comments and chart on my RfA. Owen× ☎ 17:25, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
Yay! Congrats on your well-deserved adminship, Durin! Let's have a drink, everybody! Durin's paying! *Hugglz*,
Shauri
smile!
20:38, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
Shhh... don't tell anyone. So what if he/she was here first. I'm the genuine article, baby. I'm the cat's pajamas, the bee's knees. He/she is the fake McCoy. :-) -- Lord Vold e mort (Dark Mark) 17:15, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
I'll concede...I am not particularly mad at you, though. (i.e. I didn't oppose you on your RfA). However, I do get upset when dealing with several arrogant users on this site; I can't always hold my temper - and I have seen other Wikipedians who have also blewn their cool.
Molotov
(talk)
22:44, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
As a sign of not being angry, have this barnstar:
Take care,
Molotov
(talk)
23:15, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
(next response) D'Juan; not meaning to gloss over anything you've said, but I want to highlight a particular section because I think my response will help to address the remainder. On my talk page, you said "I can't go against human nature and let someone slap me in the face and turn the other cheek. I can't allow arrogant users to believe what they are doing is right or to kiss their ass. I can't allow my freedoms to be taken away. And the bottom line is that this is so bad, I can leave Wikipedia and we can both be happy."
Allow me to give you a hypothetical set of responses to, as you have said, an "arrogant pompous user" who has greatly angered you with something they have done to your user page. You could respond by undoing the vandalism and...
or
Now, you haven't responded like the second response above. But, your responses to people have been considerably closer to (2) at times than to (1).
Let's take a step back from this and take an above-the-trees look at the situation. What are your goals? The only goal that I can see is to stop the user vandalizing your user page, or any page on Wikipedia. Defending your honor in front of these people is not a worthwhile goal. You've never met these people, likely never will, and their opinions of you have absolutely no bearing on your life. Furthermore, your anger with them will not cause them to stop vandalizing your user page. Nothing that you can say to them in anger is going to do anything to stop them from doing more vandalizing. You have no physical way of stopping them. Using anger at them isn't going to make the situation any better. If instead you warn the user and later involve an admin if they continue (feel free to ask me to step in by the way), you can get the individual blocked, and/or have your user page temporarily protected.
When a user angers me (and they do at times) it's not a matter of turning the cheek. I recognize the relative importance in my life of the people here; they have no..zero..zip...nadda..impact on my life. Their opinions of me do not matter. Anger is not a response that is going to yield anything productive. When you removed my comments to you on your user page following your withdrawn RfA and in the edit summary said "rv assholes", I could have taken great offense, and responded to you in like manner, calling you an asshole for ignoring my attempts to help you. Instead, I attempted to re-engage you in discussion. Result? We're talking again! That's good! That's productive! If I'd gotten angry with you, you'd be pissed off, I'd be pissed off, and nothing positive would have happened.
I can write just as much vitriol as anyone else can. I spent 8 years in the US Navy Reserves. I can dress someone down with insults with the best of them and leave them crying for their mommies. But, it sure doesn't prove to anyone that I am any more of a 'man', or get them to do what I want them to do. As you say, human nature is to respond to anger with anger. Where does it stop? FOCUS on the goals you want to achieve. IDENTIFY what tasks you need to do to achieve those goals. GO AFTER those tasks with all of your intelligence. With those steps you will achieve great things. If you instead choose to get angry whenever someone upsets you, you are no better than an animal force to respond to the demands of your DNA; completely subservient to 'human nature' and incapable of rising about the primordial muck and becoming something more.
Nobody will respect you for being able to dish out hate-filled vitriol. People will respect you for being a leader, and resolving situations in a calm, mature manner. You are very intelligent. Don't waste yourself in the primordial muck of 'human nature'. Aspire to be better. -- Durin 22:23, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
{{ Anon vandal}} {{ test1}}
I know you do it for almost everybody, but thanks anyway for the chart on my RfA. :)
-- Sebastian Kessel Talk 22:54, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
While it hasn't "officially" closed yet, your RfA is technically complete. With 42-5, I think it's safe to say you passed :) Congratulations! Welcome to the Cabal! ;) -- Durin 14:10, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
Durin!! :-) You've inspired me. Traveling, I am often stuck in a hotel room for hours on end and decided to see if I could emulate your charts. I followed your guidelines and developed a script in .php to perform the download and generate the chart. Considering the variability of Wikipedia's speed ;-), the ones I did for you and I took 4 minutes from beginning (downloading the contributions log) to end (generating the charts)....completely automagic...and doesn't require MS--woo hoo.
I need to cleanup the chart formats. Some of the labels are not legible in the x-axis...probably need to adjust the tick marks....and the pie labels need to be adjusted--I don't like how they are placed.
Anyhow. As the "father" of charting here, I was wondering if you could provide any suggestions on the posting I made to User:RobyWayne/Sandbox. I have a similar page of information for you, but I didn't want to post it without your permission.
P.S. Congrats on the Adminship. You truly deserve it.
Best regards. >: Roby Wayne Talk • Hist• E@ 16:29, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
Firstly thank you for your kind words both on my RfA page and my talk page. It doesn't look too likely that I'll be an admin just yet does it! :) I've taken your advice on board, thanks again for taking the time to want to help me out. However, I've had a look through the list you have compiled (thanks for that too :), you really didn't need to put yourself out that far but thanks) and I don't recognise any of those. I must have got it a bit wrong, my memory is a bit blank though. I was sure it started with Grant but it doesn't seem that way now.
Grant,
Grantwin and
Grantslaw definitely aren't me though.
Wikiwoohoo
18:43, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
Thank you for my RfA. I finished answering the fist question and then my mom called to let me know my grandfather has had a heartattack. It would be the third one in as many weeks, so hopefully, he'll pull through this one just fine. Once I make sure he is okay, I'll answer the three questions and make the appropriate date/time changes and include my RfA on the RfA list.
Thank you for trusting me enough to nominate me. I promise to serve the community well. Best regards, >: Roby Wayne Talk • Hist• E@ 23:29, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
Since I'm thinking of running for admin soon, I was wondering if you could tell me what percentage of my edits have edit summaries. (I noticed you did this for ALinkToThePast.) I was formerly WikiFan04, as well. -- WikiFanatic Talk Contribs 21:10, 7 October 2005 (CDT)
Oops, I'll be more careful next time.-- Shanel 00:15, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
Durin,
I didn't realize that I had claimed another's account when I signed an earlier post. At the time, I wasn't even sure how that was done. I do; however, appreciate you bringing it to my attention.
Doctor9
Please do not remove a {{ copyvio}} notice from an article while the copyright issues are still pending. Most of the article is a copyright violation, including the large portions of text that I removed, before determining that the opening sections of the article also constituted a copyright violation. Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted text, period. If you would like to re-write the article to help clear the article from being a copyright violation, you may do so at Carolina Forest, South Carolina/Temp. However, please do not remove the {{ copyvio}} notice until this issue is resolved. Thank you. Ëvilphoenix Burn! 14:08, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
Sorry about that. I've been doing it for months (only if there are at least 10 more oppose votes than there are support). Nobody even brought this up to me before. Either way, I'll stop. Thanks for the heads-up. Ac e tic ' Acid 16:58, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
Hmmm...I think you may be right, he shouldn't be blocked indefinately. I'll unblock immediately and remove the indef block notice. If he returns to vandalizing, I'll let another administrator handle it, after all, there are 600 of us, I can't be the only one who finds profane user page vandalism inappropriate.
Feel free to review my blocklog to your hearts content, as well as my other logs, and my contributions. I stand behind all my administrator actions and all my (6100+) edits. If you find anything you disagree with, please feel free to correct it, I don't mind at all. I stay around here because it's fun, not because I need the power.
I'm very concerned that this block calls into question all blocks I've made in my three months as an administrator, but seeing as there is obviously question in the community over whether I am able to responsibly utilize my administrator powers, or for that matter, make any positive contribution to the community, I will file an RfC against myself to guage whether the commmunity believes they were in error to have placed their trust in me. If you wish, I will also agree to go on Wikibreak (enforced by a desysoping and block, if necessary) until the RfC concludes. If the community does not trust me, then I do not want to be left in power; if the community does not want me to contribute, then I will go back to spending my free time elsewhere. Please feel free to add your concerns to the RfC after I have filed it. -- Essjay · Talk 18:30, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
You're not the first to suggest that I might be overusing/abusing my admin powers (not even the first this week), so I think a guage of community consensus is in order. I've said all along, I welcome anyone in the community to review my activities and call me on anything that is out of line; I strive to be an accountable and approachable steward (in the non-WP sense) of the community's trust. I don't want power that the community does not want me to have, and I don't want to be immune from challenge on inappropriate actions. There are admins who are not responsive to question of their activities, and who, either because of their community perception or their longevity, are immune from community outcry. I don't want to be one of those admins. I strive in everything to build the community's trust in me and to obtain, retain, and advance the respect of the community.
I think your analogy is exactly right, and I think it applies to what I've said perfectly: When a user commits vandalsim, the other edits are checked. When there is question that the user's actions in the community may be inappropriate (i.e. vandalism) they are taken to RfC (or RfAr, as the case may be). I see this as the logical extension of the process. -- Essjay · Talk 19:18, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
Durin! Thanks for the very kind words you left for me last Friday. It was a dreadful weekend, but everything seems to be okay right now. My grandmother ended up in the hospital (a different one, of course, to make it logistically difficult), too, with blood clots while my grandfather was stabilized and is still in ICU. Anyhow, I wanted to thank you for your kindness. It is truly appreciated. Best regards, >: Roby Wayne Talk • Hist• E@ 21:19, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
Unvoted. Yeah, I probably shouldn't have come to work this week, either. I've apologized and thanked each and everyone for their comments. Hey, if it doesn't happen this time, it will some other. I still appreciate your faith in me and continued support. Big noob error on my part that I have tried to cleanup. My commitment hasn't/won't change. :-). Any more ideas on the charts?? I cleaned up a few things...still need to fix that Edit Summary calc. Since it is in "raw" format, I have a few more html tags to sort out to get it quite right. After I fix that, I can run yours so you'll be more experienced with the information. As you have preached stated repeatedly, counts don't make the editor and there is no script in the world that can possibly determine if someone is doing a good job. >:
Roby Wayne
Talk •
Hist•
E@
22:43, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
A big thank you for your help and support, I look forward to meeting you in more productive contexts, Yours, Trollderella 23:51, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
Hi, I'm just posting a friendly notice stating that I have got Brain Teasers on my user page that you're welcome to have a go at. Will post new questions one day after they have been answered. Thanks... Spawn Man 05:06, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
Noticed your graphs at WP:VfA (eg: Image:Sebastiankessel-edits.png), very useful. How are they generated? I think they could be useful for tracking growth rates of disambiugation pages, as a part of Wikipedia:Disambiguation pages maintenance.-- Commander Keane 09:17, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
Done, thanks for that. Martin 16:16, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
Thank you for your support - re the edit summaries - you are right! I will redouble my efforts! Trollderella 00:08, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
I would like to know what I deleted that you think I shouldn't have. I would be more than willing to explain why I did. unsigned edit by Grahamc03 ( talk · contribs) 22:46, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
Well I know for a fact that Krayzie Bone is heterosexual, but if you would like, I'll put the rest back. unsigned edit by Grahamc03 ( talk · contribs) 22:52, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
I will do so from now on, sorry about the inconvenience. Grahamc03 23:05, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
I noticed you always post the use of edit summaries percentage for candadiates at RfA, is there a way I can get that checked for myself (just for reference)? Do you have an automated way of doing that? If you do, you should host it for public use like kate's tool, it would be a great feature. - Greg Asche (talk) 03:02, 14 October 2005 (UTC)-- Durin 14:56, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
I'm worried that your compliment may have been premature. There are some pretty serious opinions in the oppose section on my RfA, and one of the people who opposed my nomination was a bureaucrat. This may mean that even though the vote tally on my RfA is 34/4/0, my nomination will still be rejected, and my nomination's deadline has now passed. Denelson 83 18:58, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
Hi Durin, rumour has it that you are the guru when it comes to compiling statistics and such; would you would be willing to take a look at the recent conversation at Talk:George_W._Bush#Protection_debate_again? It would be interesting to visually chart out the editing trends of this particular article, what the average time is between vandalism and vandalism revert, etcetera. Hall Monitor 22:08, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
As you suggested earlier, I found and uploaded an image for the Combat Information Center, from history.navy.mil. I also found one related for Navy Tactical Data System. You may like to check if everything is correct, as I am rather new to image handling. -- Shaddack 14:58, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
Sorry, you've totally lost me, his first edit was on 11-06-2005 wasn't it? Martin 16:43, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for the early congratulations. Had I not made the dumb mistake, maybe the % of support would have been even higher. ;-). I appreciate the time that you have spent on my RfA and I promise to serve the cabal community to the best of my abilities. Both grandparents are now in the hospital, such a mess! But one will be going home tomorrow and the other made it off the ventilator this weekend--so much progress! Thanks for asking :-) >:
Roby Wayne
Talk •
Hist •
E@
21:08, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
Durin: Thanks for your note on my talk; I hadn't realized it was that far gone. I'm certainly open to mentoring Nick (and anyone else, for that matter) if they desire it. As long as Nick is agreeable, I think we can make a lot of progress. Thanks for the support! ;-) -- Essjay · Talk 18:24, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
Durin why is it that my votes doesen't count. I read that all are invited to vote. Everyone has found an exuseless exception for me, so i have tried numerous ways to apply my vote. I should be able to vote!-- Blueballs 20:33, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
Mr. Redwolf24blanked my page. There is nothing in my page. I'm trying to be civil here and start something that I can occupy myself with. Why destroy it? Why is he allowed to do that? I haven't vandalized and yet everybody's out to get me?-- Blueballs 23:23, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
You must have not seen User:Redwolf24/Sandbox, view that if you think she'll fail her RfA. Plus she's always there to help in IRC, and do you know how NicholasTurnbull passed? Ah, IRC. And her edits have gone down I believe due to working on her German and Japanese. R e dwolf24 ( talk— How's my driving?) 22:39, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for your encouraging message on my talk page regarding a possible admin nomination. Let me reply to your questions.
Cheers. -- Edcolins 10:46, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
Durin, I appreciate the effort you are making in creating the edit use graphs in order to give the community another perspective and information source when considering RfA candidates. However, I am a little concerned about it, because I am of the opinion that as much as possible, each RfA candidate should be evaluated on as similar a base of information as possible. For example, when I am considering a candidate, I take into consideration their time on the project and number of edits, then I visit their user page and talk page to get a sense of their temperament and interaction with others. I also have available their edit history to examine if I desire. However, some candidates are being given the edit chart that you create, and some are not. My concern is not so much whether this is a help or a hindrance to those candidates, but more than it simply provides a different evaluation tool for some than for others. I appreciate that you are attempting to consistently provide the edit charts for users with less than 2,000 edits, but in my opinion, I think it would be more fair for all RfA candidates to have such charts, rather than none. I understand that creating the charts is a time consuming process, and therefore I volunteer to assist you with creating them, if you would care to help me learn how to do it. I propose that the charts be created for every RfA nomination. Again, I appreciate the effort you are making in RfA overall, and the thoughtful and well considered comments that you have. I appreciate the time and consideration you gave to my own RfA. Best regards, Ëvilphoenix Burn! 17:35, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
Durin, thanks for your constructive comments on my RFA. If you ever need anything, don't hesitate to ask. See you around. — thames 18:34, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
...About what I put
here.
Molotov
(talk)
20:50, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
I was trying to be cool like you and do a graph for my own edits (just to see for myself), and was going along following your steps just fine until this paragraph (I've ellipsed it here for length purposes):
Could you please explain this a little further if you get the chance. I don't really understand what you mean by the bolded part. Subsequent values? What if they skip a day editing? Is there an easier way to propogate a function that changes throughout a column than maually going in to the cell and changing the cell number (F2+1 would need changed to F3+1 then F4+1 right?)? I'll be away for a couple of days, and I know you're busy, so no rush. Plus I know I sound retarded and I am not your child so you shouldn't have to hold my hand, but any help would be appreciated. Thanks. -- Lord Vold e mort (Dark Mark) 21:58, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
Yes that would be the life
Prodego talk 22:21, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
Hello Durin, just a friendly remember. At blueballs' talk page you say Greenmonkey is 'banned' indefinitely. The correct term would be block. To summarize, ban is per human, block is per account. My name is Matt Binder. Matt Binder can be banned indefinitely, and if he is, then no account owned by him is allowed to exist at wikipedia in any incarnation, even if I write 8 policies everyone loves, and every contribution by me is to be rolled back. But if I'm blocked indefinitely for blanking user pages, I can come back as Bluewolf24 and go straight. Compare WP:BLOCK to WP:BAN, and try not to mix up the terms. Only about 20 people are banned, most can be found at WP:BU and others from arbcom cases. Bans are reserved for those who piss off a) Jimbo b) the board of trustees (hasn't happened yet) c) the arbcom or d) the entire community, provided the community doesn't think the person has much chance of redemption. I.e. Mr. Treason, WoW...
The point I'm trying to make is never say ban, unless they were specifically banned.
Cheers Durin :) R e dwolf24 ( talk) 22:56, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
Regarding the RFAs. Well, I had removed the RFAs from the page, but wikipedia chose the most inopportune moment to go offline. I hadn't promoted any of the candidates, nor had I used the rfap/f tags. I kept trying for the next hour before finally giving up. I then emailed Taxman so that he could notify another bureaucrat about this since I would gain net access only 15 hrs later. I don't Taxman checked his mail though, but Pakaran noticed that the users weren't promoted and clarified this from me via email. =Nichalp «Talk»= 10:28, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for the nomination. Just not sure whether I had to change the "current time + 7 days". The guidelines are a bit confusing on this. Please review this. Cheers. -- Edcolins 12:17, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
Hi Durin, Redwolf24 pointed me to his talk page where you talked about me as a possible admin. Just wanted to let you know that I'm glad you see me that way! And yes, one day I'll be glad to take that mop and use it. However, I'd rather wait till my first three months are over, to avoid oppose votes for just the amount of time that I'm here. However, if you see anything in my work that I can improve on, let me know! -- JoanneB 23:54, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
Ha! I can't help but laugh at this:
Age. If I know the age to be less than 25, I will not nominate. Judge me harshly on that point if you will, but the older a person is the less likely they are to handle unusual, stressful situations in a negative way. There are plenty of people who can and will nominate people regardless of age, so this stance on my part does not prevent anyone from becoming an admin.
Why's it funny? The guy who nominated you is 15. Though I'm sure you could have had someone older nominate you. Ah well, it's fine. Keep on keeping on :) R e dwolf24 ( talk) 01:43, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
Despite my personal opinion of editcountitis, I like the graph... thankies. :) Bushytails 21:19, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
Where did I revert the article 4 times in 24 hours? I would like to see that. Show this to me. -- Anittas 16:39, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
Per your request: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Moldovan_language#My_source_on_Grigore_Ureche_is_refused
-- Anittas 23:52, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
Another editor making violations of Wikipedia policies and guidelines does not give you leave to do the same. If you act in opposition to Wikipedia policy, you should in no way be surprised if the outcome is action against you. I have tried, and tried, and tried to work with you to contain your emotions on various topics. It is apparently beyond me to aid you in directing your efforts in less emotion driven ways. That is why I have not continued my discussion from some time ago with you; not out of disrespect for you, but out of frustration at my own inability to coach you. I wish you the best, -- Durin 18:08, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
Ive finally gotten a chance to look at various comments about the process, and chimed in a little on some of them. - St| eve 18:57, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
I figured the WP:NPA thing was implied by the "hit list" at the bottom there more clearly than the gun, but the gun was unsettling. I was going to block him at first, but I also blocked one of the people on the hitlist, so I figured I might be tainted in blocking him as well. That userbox can't stay up though. Karmafist 19:11, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
Yeeeah, I would have gotten to it eventually. Something came up right as I was delisting it, and I just now was going back. Thanks for the heads up though. Good looking out. See ya around. -- Lord Vold e mort (Dark Mark) 19:20, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
Hey - I'd appreciate it if you'd do for me like you've done for others and tell me what percentage of the time I use edit summaries. Is there a tool you use for doing this, or do you do it manually? Thank in advance. -- Randy 20:28, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for the heads-up. Must be getting lazy lately. You reminded me of a question I had a while ago and then promptly forgot about, though. If I make an edit to a section, and the summary is autofilled with the section name, and I don't add anything to what's there: is that considered an edit with or without an edit summary? — mendel ☎ 20:34, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
Thanks, that is also an interesting train of thought, do you believe that stopping anonymous editing will relieve some of these problems? I believe that, as you say, Wiki is more a social experiment than an encyclopedia, and that stopping anonymous editing will go a long way to fixing this by 1) Increasing our credibility and thus encouraging better editors to get involved 2) Much much less time would be wasted at AFD, Copyvios etc. 3) Bad faith editing and generally bad editing will be drastically reduced. Martin 22:57, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
Please don't respond to posts on TINMC with a lecture for the requesting editor on the three revert rule or civility. People who are looking for mediation quite often merely need someone to listen to their problem and make constructive suggestions on how to fix it. Telling them how they're doing everything wrong instead just ticks them off even more.
I referred this editor to the MedCom for assistance after he IMed me for help (as an Arbitrator, I can't really mediate disputes) and he was referred from there to MedCab. I got an IM today complaining about how the MedCab is trying to get him blocked now, and I see that's because of your comments on his talk page. Frankly, I'm rather appalled. Kelly Martin ( talk) 01:48, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
Hi Durin,
Thanks for your message.
However, I feel I should let you know a few things about this conflict:
1) It is due to one user's insistance on using a source that is over 400 years old and does not accurately describe the current situation. When it began, it was also due to the insistance of the same user that the page include some very POV phrases such as "Romania liberated Bessarabia" (previously "Romania retook Bessarabia"). 2) This same user ( Anittas) has shown some very poor behaviour on WP in the past. As evidence of this, you can check his user talkpage, where there are dozens of messages from people who have been irritated or harassed by him, as well as more than a handful of messages from people which kindly and politely urge him to disengage from specific conflicts to which he replies with obscentities, personal attacks, or general rudeness (for example "Go away. Now."). 3) This user had no other users supporting them. He left a message on talkpages of "fellow Romanians", expecting them to come and help him revert, but none of them did because even they saw how ridiculous his revisions were. 4) Aforementioned user was blocked promptly for violation of the 3RR on that page 5) The last revision on that page occurred 2 days ago, which can *usually* be taken as an indication that the conflict has ended.
Cheers Node 04:33, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
All above is a lie and I can prove it. Anyone can. I never wrote the following sentence:
"Romania liberated Bessarabia"
Romania did not liberate Bessarabia. Bessarabia voted in a referendum to reunite with Romania, but in either case, I didn't write any of that stuff. This can be verified by checking the edit history. The only thing that I added to that article was the fragment about Ureche. And I asked only Bogdan to revert the article, and he is away. The rest of what Node said is off-topic. We're talking about the legitimate of a source, not about my own behaviour.
You don't see me telling people that all Romanians are disgraced when they read your posts, Node, and that you lied to the members of the Moldovan Wiki. Am I exagerating? See for yourself:
http://mo.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Ronline/Alegeri_pentru_administratori
There you have it. Nothing can be hidden from the public. All that mess; all that chaos, was created by Node. But, this should not be held against him - not in this case - because all of that, is irrelevant to what we're talking about here; and I wouldn't be such an idiot as to trying to discredit Node for other conflicts that he might be having, even when they show that he is Anti-Romanian. -- Anittas 05:03, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
Thank you for your message on my talk page. I am afraid I am not able to answer to your question. I could answer to questions regarding European patent law and, to a limited extent, regarding United States patent law, but not regarding United States copyright law. I suggest you contact User:Mmmbeer who is apparently registered U.S. patent attorney, or User:Postdlf, a U.S. lawyer (who wrote articles on U.S. Supreme Court decisions relating to copyright, e.g. Burrow-Giles Lithographic Co. v. Sarony and more). I hope this helps. -- Edcolins 10:14, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
Hey, sorry Durin, it was a bit late at night and I wasn't thinking straight. Thanks for taking care of it. Christopher Parham (talk) 15:12, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
I've withdrawn per yours and others advice. I really appreciate the kind words. peace, Tedernst 16:37, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
Dear Durin: I am the current team leader of the Mediation Cabal, and I would like to discuss with you the recent comments you made on that page to Anittas, and your subsequent reply to Kelly Martin's post on your talk page. I would like to endorse what Kelly said in her message to you - I would be most grateful if you would please refrain from dissuading users from seeking mediation from the Mediation Cabal by instructing the users they should not be seeking mediation; no matter how bad you may feel Anittas' actions have been, this user is entitled to a mediation if they wish to request one, and as a consequence of your message this user got the idea that a Mediation Cabal had issued your statement, which was not the case. The purpose of mediation is to reconcile differences, and come to common agreement, through a civilised and moderated process; it is clear that ad-hoc discussion on the talk page is leading to nothing but mud-slinging and ad hominem response, and so in my view mediation may have some value in this matter. Especially since the user had been referred to us by an arbitrator, it makes your rather officious approach to trying to prevent the user entering mediation even less conscienable, in my view. If you do have any further questions or concerns relating to this case, please contact me rather than attempting to control the mediation process yourself. Best regards, -- NicholasTurnbull | (talk) (e-mail) (cabal) 19:29, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
Did you ask the permission of all those editors before you put their RfA's on the page? Some of them might get offended, so I think we'd better be safe than sorry. Good work btw! Borisblue 17:24, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
Thank you again for the trust you have placed in me in nominating me as an admin. I really appreciate the nomination and now that the vote is over I will try to make a solid admin (but first I am going to explore the policies surrounding the admin tasks). I'll let you know if I have admin-specific interrogations. -- Edcolins 19:29, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
Ah, I can explain! In IRC, on freenode, there's a channel called #wikipedia-en-vandalism where Cool Cat has an anti-vandalism bot (like CDVF but less time consuming) report stuff. I saw a new user called Durin.. The bot gives out the URL to block, but on pretty much every client if a period/fullstop (.) ends a URL they make it NOT part of a url (cause people will say 'go to www.yahoo.com.' and our wiki is amazing enough to use .'s at the end of URL's...) so I went to block the second Durin and I saw I blocked you. Essjay and Curps blocked the real impostor (!) and the next name it made was something like FUCK CURPS ESSJAY AND REDWOLF24, but I never blocked Durin. but it said I blocked Durin (i.e. you) so I feel that the troll creating names was probably in the IRC room, so we have a moonshining troll or two inside our community, but now I'm rambling.
Ah, and as for the teenage-outsmart-thing; here's my rationale:
If we're learning about every trivial battle of the Civil War, chances are someone who just learned it will know it better than someone who learned it when they were 14. You know, like cramming for a test. The same guy will probably outsmart the teen at more important manners, but the teen will have some crammed information ;-)
R e dwolf24 ( talk) 06:00, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
Well, I did it because most of the discussions were afterthoughts rather than an all out discussion. =Why can't self nominate myself?=; =Relisting SV RFA=. I think =Guide to RfA= was the one you were specifically referring to. I have no problems if someone brings the topic back to focus. Is it this one that you were referring to? =Nichalp «Talk»= 06:14, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
Looks like we have another "example" brewing: Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Tony1. Can you talk him against quitting WP when it closes? I tried, but he took what I said very badly. Oh, and hurry up on the guide! Borisblue 14:36, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
Hi Duran
I was really pleased to receive your two messages, and kind of flattered that you'd write so much to me. Yeah, I appreciate fully what you say about the function and status of admins. In fact, I never really cared for admin duties - the thought of blocking people, deleting contentious pages, and patrolling for vandalism was and still is decidedly unappealling to me. So it's all a terrible shame that I feel that there's so much poison out there (and in my own mind) that I will never step foot on WP again after I leave.
I understand and agree with your point about the importance of an open process, but I think it should be moderated and constrained by fairly tight guidelines for all participants. I still think the vote changing thing is a very negative aspect; and yes, restricting the voting to the bureacrats who run the system would probably result in a better tone on the page. I don't think I can bear to look at the links you included - I'm just too depressed at the moment.
I wish you all the best in your attemtps to improve the process; I'm really pleased that it's happening, and that someone like you has major input into it. You may use my very own warzone as an example, and retain a copy of my user page for use in the improvement process. However, this brings me to another issue: the difficulty of finding someone to delete my page and image after I leave. I'd be further distressed if it is just left there; my privacy has suddenly become more important. Can you advise?
Thanks so much for your support. I need it.
Sincerely
Tony (tony1 at iinet dot net dot au)
Tony 01:09, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
Hey Durin, I was curious why you used rollback instead of putting in an edit summary regarding removing the Rfa put up by Wiki Brah. I thought you of all people would have done that considering how it could be misunderstood without realizing the acceptance hadn't happened yet. Karmafist 04:06, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
Yep. I've been here for 11 years. Before that I was in Holman for 20 years which is on the other side of Victoria Island. I came to the arctic in 1974. By the way the link in User:Durin/Admin nominee charts to your example does not work anymore. CambridgeBayWeather 18:06, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
Hey there, Durin, ol' buddy, ol' pal o'mine, how am I doing on those edit summaries? BD2412 T 01:27, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
I know it's so boring, doing the same thing over and over again for people but I feel I missed out on my RfAs. Anyway, I'll be, like, your bestest best friend for all of eternity if you'd take a peek at my edit summary usage. Well, perhaps not but you could have your name in my "Wikipedians for whom my high regard is held" list? Is that a good deal? Well, no but it's the best I can do :). (you see, I could do it myself if you sent me your excel file... lol) -- Cel e stianpower háblame 13:35, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
Hi Durin, I have been following your efforts on the RfA page in persuading other users to reduce their editcountitis and look at other aspects of contributions as well. I was just wondering abt my usage of edit summaries. I reckon that it wd be high, but how much I do not know. From your talkpage, I tried to gather how to determine the usage of edit summaries but I must confess that I haven't understood it. If it is not too much trouble, could you pl. let me know my usage of edit summaries. It is not very urgent, pl. do it at your pace and pl. let me know of it on my talkpage (My internet connection has been weird for the last 2 weeks and I'm hving probs in jumping back & forth from my watchlist). Regards, -- Gurubrahma 06:48, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
The desire for admins to appropriately use edit summaries is in no respect a violation of WP:POINT. Please see User:Durin/Admin_criteria_comments#Edit_summaries. One of the typical prime duties of administrators is fighting vandalism. Providing edit summaries is one way in which people can make the job of RC patrollers looking for vandalism easier. It is very appropriate to request admins, who are likely to be fighting vandalism, to aide in fighting vandalism. -- Durin 21:56, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
I understand your reasons for opposing and Im learned that removing red links are sometimes a no-no and spelling counts more than I thought which going to help me in the future. I have a quiestion to ask What is my average edits a day I want to find that out. Thanks -- JAranda | watz sup 21:18, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
Edit summaries, as you know, are not mandatory. That is why they are not enforced by the software, which also generates auto-summaries based on section titles to provide a minimum amount of information if the user does not. The primary purpose of edit summaries is not, nor has it ever been, to aid in fighting vandalism. Their primary purpose is to enrich the history of a page and the Recent changes view, to give users a better idea what content of a page has changed and whether it is relevant to them.
The number of changes on Wikipedia has become so high that checking them all is almost impossible without new, collaborative software tools which we do not have yet. But if you want to decide which changes not to check, "those without summaries" would be a bad criterion. That's because the percentage of good users who do not use them, at least occasionally, for good edits is very high, and the percentage of bad users who are more than drive-by vandals and are willing to lie in a summary is also, presumably, relatively high. As for the drive-by vandals, checking for anonymous users and those with no user pages is a far better strategy, as it eliminates almost all edits by trusted, regular users.
Te best and perhaps only reason not to check an edit without a summary is that the user who made the edit is trusted. This can be because they made thousands of edits and have shown that they are interested in respecting the rules of Wikipedia, and improving its content. Incidentally, almost every admin falls into that category. Thus, if you really are interested in making life easier for vandal fighters, you should evaluate whether the person is trustworthy. Vandal-fighters can then simply add the names of all admins from the list of admins to their user whitelist in tools such as CryptoDerk's vandal fighter.
Certainly, I can see the value in the argument that someone who never or almost never uses edit summaries might not be considered trustworthy, as they have not shown due diligence and do not respect the standards of Wikipedia. But we're talking about 50% vs. 60% vs 70%, at which point we are talking about varying preferences within the community.
Your argument that using summaries consistently "raises the bar" for vandals makes no sense in any case. First of all, you will not be successful in getting every regular user to use summaries consistently, partially because you will not reach everyone, and partially because some people (including myself) will simply disagree with you on their usefulness. Secondly, if vandals did start adopting fake summaries as a technique to avoid detection, then the effective situation for the vandal fighter is no better than it is today: they still have to check edits with summaries. And if they actually take the easy route and do not, such vandalism is likely to slip through, and the situation worsens.
My concern is therefore that you're merely using RFA as a litmus test to enforce your own personal preferences. You are voting against users who have done their best to comply with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines, who have done excellent work on articles, who are genuinely interested in fighting vandals, who are giving large amounts of their free time to the project -- and instead of happily handing them a mop to clean up with, you pedantically complain about the percentage of edits with summaries.
This is not what RFA is for. It is for evaluating whether a person can be trusted to respect the five pillars of Wikipedia. It is also, as has been said many times, "no big deal". Angela had less than 100 edits when she applied for adminship (which was granted), and is now on the Board of Trustees of the Wikimedia Foundation. The original idea of adminship was, therefore, always that it is handed out liberally to people who can be trusted, and this has worked well in building a strong, diverse community. Wikis live from the principle of devolving power. "Adminship" is a flag many of us would happily grant to everyone, if only we could know in advance that they're not going to go on a deletion or blocking spree. To give us this knowledge, we have the RFA process.
It was never intended to be an initiation rite or a litmus test. The fact that any user is allowed to comment on adminship nominations, and that we strive for consensus, carries with it great responsibility for the individual users commenting. I'm sorry if this is harsh, but I feel you are abusing this privilege. I am beginning to think that it would be best to modify the rules so that only objections that directly relate to the Five Pillars are taken into account.
Using your logic, others will try to enforce their personal standards. "I vote against this person because he opposes family filters on Wikipedia." "I vote against this person because she does not remove personal attacks from comments." "I vote against this person because he uses a fancy signature instead of a plain one." Effectively, the consensus principle is undermined when individuals with strong personal preferences can hold a nomination hostage to get what they want.
None of these personal standards is a fundamental rule of Wikipedia, and the same is true for using edit summaries all the time. I therefore repeat my plea to you to refrain from using RFA as a litmus test for your personal preferences, especially as these appear to be based on fallacious logic.-- Eloquence * 21:52, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
Hello Cryptic, I came across your name recently and saw that you've been here a while but are not an admin. I then began reviewing your contributions to Wikipedia against my rather strict nomination standards and I'm pleased to tell you that you passed. In fact, I can't believe you haven't been nominated already. You've done a very large amount of work at WP:AFD (I count nearly 1200 edits in this area alone), and have been active in a lot of other admin appropriate areas, includinf WP:MD, WP:RFD, WP:CFD, WP:TFD and more. Plus, you've been active in discussions on criteria for speedy deletion and also on featured article candidates. I especially liked a comment you made about the never ending schools keep/delete debate ( [8]). I've reviewed about 100 of your comments made on user talk pages and have found you very level headed and cool under stress. Plus, you're quite willing to make comments to other admins who make errors and are very polite in the process ( [9]). You already work in contentious areas, and as you said ( [10]), you don't get stressed easily; a great quality for an admin. I expect you would make a fantastic admin and would make great use of the tools. I'd like to nominate you, but before creating the nomination page for you I wanted to find out if you're be interested in being an admin and if you would like me to nominate you? -- Durin 21:29, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
I am just curious how you count the use of edit summaries. I see a lot of people asking for how they are doing. Could this be something that is made available to everyone or added onto Kate's tool perhaps? Oh, by the way, how am I doing in that department. :) Thanks. -- Holderca1 03:15, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
Durin, could you source a graph on the number of support vs oppose votes for candidates over the past two months? Thanks =Nichalp «Talk»= 12:56, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
Durin, I hate bothering you for such minutiae, and the whole issue might be moot by now anyway, but can you please check Kelly Martin's edit summary usage percentage for edits not involving ArbCom work? The simplest measure would probably be to look at her last 500 or 1000 edits prior to her appointment to ArbCom. Thank you. Owen× ☎ 04:12, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
Hi Durin. I have seen your work in RfA and really appreciate it. I was hoping that you'd be willing to confirm for me that my use of edit summaries is currently kind of sucky, but it would be nice to have a numerical way to evaluate just how sucky, so that I can get better. No rush; I read above that you can't do it right away. I really appreciate it.
Also, I was hoping to get a sort of general evaluation from you on my progress here at Wikipedia. I would like to be an admin someday, but will be the first to admit that I know I'm not ready, and won't be for quite some time. (I have an edit count of something like 2500, but in my case it is certainly not representative. I have created articles, and then again a lot of those edits were making minor changes, editing my own user page, and correcting my own typos because I have a quick trigger finger on my mouse.) My hope, though, was to try to prepare myself for adminship by next summer, when I won't be at school any more and can properly use the tools that would hopefully be given to me. Any tips you can give me in this direction would be most useful. Thanks. Jacqui ★ 19:32, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
First, Jacqui :) (I can do your request Hall Monitor, but it's not automated...I'll need a little bit). Jacqui; your use of edit summaries is 67% overall after 2,556 edits. It's 80.2% in the last 500 edits. You're definitely improving. As for what to do to prepare yourself for adminship;
You might want to see User:Durin/My_guidelines_for_admin_nomination#My_admin_nomination_standards. Those are difficult standards. But, if you pass them, there's a (so far) very good chance you'll pass RfA with flying colors. I might nominate you myself. If you have any more questions, I'd be happy to answer. -- Durin 19:46, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
Hall Monitor; chart's done. You can view it at Image:HallMonitorEditSummaryUsage.png. When you're done with the chart, you can feel free to delete it. I won't be attributing it anywhere else. I'm amazed at how prolific you've been. >10,000 edits since May? Wow! -- Durin 20:04, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
You have been charged in a request for comment with attempting to prevent an editor from attempting to seek the assistance of a mediator to resolve a dispute, and with becoming hostile and belligerent when politely asked to refrain from doing so in the future. You may wish to respond. Kelly Martin ( talk) 13:28, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for cleaning up {{Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/MC MasterChef}} and {{Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Shaddack}}. I couldn't quite finish the formalities then. PS> Thanks for the graphs, but I wasn't looking for that particular info. I'll let you know abt it later. Regards, =Nichalp «Talk»= 18:48, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
Hello, I'd like to discuss your recent actions re: wikipedia dispute resolution with you in real time.
I'm often present on irc.freenode.net , #wikipedia (as kim_bruning or kim_register). Or you might want to use wikipedia email to send me an MSN/AIM/ICQ/etc or Skype username/address so I can contact you more privately.
Thanks for your time, and hope to speak with you soon.
-- Kim Bruning 19:00, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
Hi,
Recent events remind me how valuable the work you do on RfA candidate scrutiny is. This community service should not go unrecognized.
Please don't let disgruntled parties dissuade you from your often thankless and tiring examination work. Best wishes, Xoloz 19:19, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
Will do. :) I, of course, never have any intention of running for anything, partly because I too am saddened by some editors in positions of power who, in my view, have very poor judgment. You are a bright spot in combatting the insensible around here. :) Xoloz 20:41, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
Don't leave?
Prodego talk 21:34, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
Take a wikibreak, and when you are ready, come back that's the best thing to do.
Prodego talk 23:07, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
You seem to be a fairly good editor, so losing you might not be so good. I'd really really like to talk with you over IRC or IM now, especially since you're planning on leaving and it wouldn't hurt to do so anyway, by whatever standard you hold.
But even if you don't, well, you may or may not have made a mistake or two recently (We all do! I've made much bigger howlers than you've ever been accused of! :-P ) , but it looks like the overall quality of your work is good. :-)
sincerely, Kim Bruning 21:41, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
I hope you aren't doing this just to bring out a flood of support... You should realize that such support will come, as we even give it to people who don't really deserve it if they pout loudly enough. In your case you do deserve support, ... it is only because you've been so unwilling to accept criticism that your detractors have become as loud as they have. I hope you realize there are other options and solution to these problems and continue editing. In the meantime, I'll take requests to produce reports for people like you produced... and I'll probably automate a few of the simpler ones, anyone who wants them please just ping me. -- Gmaxwell 21:43, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
Please, please reconsider. Many of us (I dare say, most) know this RfC is, at best, highly suspect; at worst, almost riduculous. You are a quality editor and administrator, and we need you. Xoloz 21:44, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
PS: Gmaxwell; whether it's productive or not isn't the point. The point is I've been a disruption here. You, Eloquence, NicholasTurnbull, Kelly, and Tony have all agreed with that (and there's probably more). I am not going to be a disruption here. It's not what I wanted, and it's not what I will do. Since as I said, I've done my best and my best is a disruption here, I'm leaving. Think of it this way; if the best I could do was drive a race car around a track at half the speed of the leaders, I would be disruptive. The right move is to leave. I lack the skills necessary to be a good Wikipedian. It's time to leave.
Goodbye, a thousand times, goodbye. -- Durin 21:49, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
To be very frank Durin, the admins so accusing you are known to be often like-minded, and are held by at least some to be of questionable judgment, including me. They represent themselves only. If you return, and allow the RfC to continue, the community at large is sure to have a more conciliatory view. Xoloz 21:55, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
Durin, if you were "a disruption here", which I do not grant, but if you were, it was a disruption for the betterment of the project. Take a break if you must, but please come back when you can. Jonathunder 21:58, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
Rule #1, my friend: Don't sweat the internet. Nothing of consequence will come from this RfC, so let it roll off of you like water, and continue to make your valuable (and valued) contributions. BD2412 T 22:46, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
There is no compelling reason for me to return. The current environment in which I have been placed is to do as Kelly Martin says I must do, or leave Wikipedia [12]. There are no options. I would have been willing to consider some compromise regarding some of her demands, but not all. Since there is no wiggle room, I must leave Wikipedia. I find it absolutely absurd that I have been so heavily taken to task for my actions and barely a peep has been raised in protest of Kelly's actions. Indeed, there is more than ample evidence to file an RfC against Kelly. Kelly has also violated my rights on the RfC by forcing my question that I had asked of her off of the RfC main page and on to the talk page. I can just imagine the protest she'd be making if I took to doing the same to her questions (which are heavily polarizing). If I try to move the questions back to the RfC rather than the discussion page, Kelly will accuse me of getting into a revert war. There's no winning this; I've lost any attempt at reasonable conclusion to the RfC. When I asked Kelly to file the RfC I was expecting her to act in a cool, rational manner. Instead I have been the subject of a verbal onslaught by her. In the filing of the RfC she was not neutral, and she has done a marvelous job of controlling the RfC from the get go. She supposedly apologizes for her actions on the RfC but then does not seek to change them an offense that some other editors find me guilty of yet she is not taken to task. Why? Because she's a darling of Wikipedia. She was hand selected by none other than Jimbo Wales to serve on ArbCom. What am I supposed to do in the face of that? I certainly can't file the RfC. If I do, it will be viewed as a bad faith attack against her. So my hands are tied. I don't think anyone else can either; she disdains the RfC process and insulted a person who brought one with her as party. Yet, that's ok...that's perfectly fine. Gosh no we can't find fault with Kelly!
Now, my RfC has become a roast-Durin event with certifiers bringing all manner of unrelated attacks against me and insisting that I must bend or break. Well crap what the hell do you think Kelly is doing? She has offered no compromise and insists that I must leave if I don't agree to her demands.
You know what would bring honesty back to this process? An RfC filed against her. There is blatant, ample evidence to do so. She has violated Wikipedia policy time and time again. She has made a habit of verbally assaulting people. She treats Wikipedia policies as being something she can use to bludgeon others but heaven forbid she should be held to task for making violations of her own. But, she won't be party to such an RfC, so it can't proceed. It will go stale, ignored, dropped, and Kelly will go on acting as she has done before. So, the very process that seeks to resolve this dispute is utterly broken. She won't yield, she won't acknowledge RfCs brought against her, and I must leave Wikipedia or utterly capitulate to her demands. And people are surprised I'm leaving? Good grief. How much ridiculous crap does a person have to put up with before having a valid reason to leave?
Throughout my tenure here I made every attempt to remain civil, polite, and within the bounds of Wikipedia. Today, I became utterly fed up with the processes by which a person who is obviously acting out of so much blatant hatred is supported, condoned, and treated as royalty. I'm sick of it, and against my better judgement in speaking such I find ample reason to consider Kelly a rogue admin and ArbCom member who is not accountable to policy or any reasonable process by which compromise can be reached. I've had it with her. I refuse to deal with her in any respect because of her categorical inability to review herself in anything but a sterling light. She can do no wrong.
For God's sake, I spent two hours developing a reasonable basis on which to oppose Kelly's RfB. I raised a number of very legitimate points. Some people ended up agreeing with the points that I raised. Some of the points I raised would, by themselves, have been enough to vote against an RfA much less an RfB which is held to a higher standard. Yet, I am utterly wrong for raising these points. No, that's just not allowed. I can't post my well founded vote about Kelly because she's beyond review; everyone must like her or else! Prior to my vote there were 8 votes in opposition. Kelly would have had to have received 72 votes in support to clear those votes much less the later oppose votes that had nothing to do with my vote. Yet, she directly...absolutely directly...blames me for her RfB failure. With her obvious, blatant full on verbal onslaught on the RfC how can anyone view that RfC as anything but a retribution against me for voting oppose? Furthermore, if my actions with regards to the original incident were some damn awful, why didn't Kelly file an RfC THEN? She waited nearly two weeks because she was mad that I voted oppose on her RfB. If there were any real basis for her complaint against me on the RfC other than her accusations about her RfB, then it should have been raised two weeks ago...not now.
I am sick of this process. It is blatantly self serving to Kelly, corrupt in initiation and totally without candor. I find no reason to submit myself to such a blatantly false process. Since the appeal process from this goes directly through her and her "trust peers" (as she put it) I have no hope of winning this debate. As I noted previously, even if I "win" I will lose as Kelly will continue to cast aspersions against me as a problem admin.
I don't have to put up with this. Wikipedia has no...zero...legal grounds on which to force me to be party to such ridiculously corrupted affairs.
For the record; I never told Anittas NOT to talk to Mediation Cabal (heaven forbid I should ever set foot in there all-precious territory again). I told Anittas to first attempt to resolve the dispute on the talk page. That had not been done to my knowledge. Others are now inferring it had been done; if so I was not aware of it and in that respect I was in error. Anittas did bring it to the talk page after I requested he do so, and there was some debate that followed. I did not attempt to interfere with MedCab. In fact, I tried to help. Instead, I had the door slammed in my face for violating the hallowed ground of MedCab. I was following policy in advising Anittas of what to do next. For that, I am roundly criticized. Therefore the lesson is that MedCab is more important than policy, and policy can go to hell. Don't do what policy tells you...do what MedCab tells you, and don't you DARE respond to anyone who makes a request at MedCab unless you're part of there little club. They will hunt you down and destroy you for it.
Why am I ranting on like this on my talk page? Because I can't do it on my RfC. The RfC is effectively closed to me. Kelly is controlling my RfC by removing my comments and questions. She has not been held to task for this; in fact nary of peep of complaint has been raised about it except by me. Further proof of the ridiculous non-peer regard she is held in. Yet, I am supposed to come to Wikipedia as true peer on her terms...which means she must be held in high regard, I must abjectly apologize to her for my many faults (apparently virtually all of my contributions), and swear to not do it again.
I came here to Wikipedia with the best of intentions. I have tried my best to do everything I could to improve it. I had dreams of one day being able to influence various processes into productive directions. That influence now is lost. I am now forever marked as a problem admin by a person who is above any restraint, who can not be taken to task for her many faults, who disdains the use of the RfC process against her yet uses it as a bludgeoning tool against me. What impact I had hoped to make is therefore irrecoverably destroyed. She has destroyed my name, my character, and every hope that I had of being a productive member her. Yet, she can't be taken to task for it lest anyone be labeled as slanderous and out to destroy her. For crying out loud, she blatantly violated Wikipedia policy by permanently banning an IP! But noooo...that's ok! That's fine! Kelly was right and just to do that and heaven forbid anyone should vote oppose to her RfB because of it! Noooo...it's because we don't LIKE her that we're voting oppose to her, not because we have any legitimate basis on which to vote oppose. No, that can't possibly be true. Kelly can do no wrong!
There is no way out. As stated, an RfC can not be brought against her. There is no way in which to reach any consensus that her actions have been improper. I can not move. I am trapped. I have no recourse but to either accept her demands or leave Wikipedia.
You know what's sick? The majority of ArbCom is appointed, not voted upon. Think about the effects of that. The community doesn't really have a say in the ultimate resolution of processes. If we dislike the manner in which an ArbCom member is going about their business, we can't say "well the community voted her in". There's no way in which we can seek any remediation if the ArbCom is at fault. There's no avenue of recourse. Why is there no process to vote in temporary holders of positions? It's not like we are wanting for candidates. Instead, we have an appointment process that is above the community of Wikipedia, external to it, and we have no impact on it. This process is out of control. Yet, to raise such issues marks us as being outsiders who should be pushed out of Wikipedia.
Kelly, I imagine you're dancing in glee at the outcome of this spat between you and I. You've managed to destroy a hard working Wikipedian who was doing nothing more than trying to help a user. You're blatant inability to assume good faith, your accusatory tones from the outset, set the stage for this. I was willing to attempt to achieve some sort of compromise on this but your control of the RfC and your inability to consider any compromise other than me capitulating or leaving Wikipedia makes that impossible. God help you Kelly. How you can view this RfC as anything other than a bad faith assault upon me in retribution for your failed RfB (which had NOTHING to do with me) is beyond me.
It is utterly depressing that good faith efforts on Wikipedia end up being so roundly criticized, destroyed, and used to besmirch the reputation of an individual who was doing nothing more than trying to help. God how I wish I hadn't voted on Kelly's RfB now. It would have failed anyway, and she would have had to face up to the reality that people just don't think she's ready to be a bureaucrat. Now, she's come up with the crackpot excuse that it's my fault her RfB failed and she refuses to consider her errors. What supreme arrogance.
Now you just watch. Kelly will come along and using policy as a bludgeon remove these comments off of my talk page or have one of her "trusted peers" (to whom she has told I am a problem admin) do it. She will leave me with no forum to voice my concerns; the RfC will have been effectively controlled and my talk page will have been effectively controlled. I'm already relegated to this poor forum for such. What's next, a ban Kelly? To what absurd lengths beyond which you have already gone will you go to destroy me, eh? Come on Kelly...block me; show us all how right and just you are.
Utterly disgusted, -- Durin 03:11, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
And now the people who are against me on the RfC are accusing me of libel. There goes another Wikipedia policy up in smoke. I believe Kelly Martin's real name is Kelly Martin. Thus, there would be grounds for a legal suit against me if Kelly were to file it. My real name of course isn't Durin, so I have no grounds for a libel case. If I didn't have ample reason before, with this new legal threat against me I can't continue here. If I raise any additional protest against her it would be potentially part of a case against me. I can't tolerate this threat against me and ultimately my family. If I had any choice before, I certainly have no choice but to leave now. -- Durin 03:20, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
I've emailed you. Please have a look at them. Thanks. Guettarda 03:34, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
Durin... Please don't leave. Don't let a few editors get you down. You have a lot of supporters here at Wikipedia, and this would be a much worse place without you here. You are an invaluable asset to WP. I urge you to reconsider. Perhaps take a few days off and come back. We all need a little time off and perhaps this is your time. If you decide not to come back, please know that a lot of people here appreciate you and your work, and you will be sorely missed. I'm not sure I can say much to console you, but at least I have tried. Thanks for everything. -- LV (Dark Mark) 16:06, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
Um, no, libel can not be criminal, and can not involve prison sentences. Trust me - I am a lawyer (an IP lawyer at that), and libel, slander, invasion of privacy, abuse of process, tortious interference, etc., are part of my bread and butter. Torts, all of them, nary a crime in the bunch. Don't fret about prison, it's not on the table. BD2412 T 05:24, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
With my zero knowledge laws governing libel and slander, I still see that any lawsuit potential is zero...I truly believe that Kelly Martin was simply throwing words out there and she even clearly stated that she did not mean to threaten you with any leagl action. I assume good faith and think that both of you are very valuable contributors here...it is my strong recommendation that you return to Wikipedia and resume your contributions at your convienence. Let me know if there is anything that I can do to help.-- MONGO 02:15, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
Even in a limitied capacity. Just hold your head high and you'll be fine. -- LV (Dark Mark) 15:32, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
As per a general consensus on Wikipedia talk:Requests for comment/Durin I have archived and locked the pag, should you want this deleted you can list it at Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion as per policy. Jtkiefer T | @ | C ----- 22:02, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
Well, if as you assert Kelly is not satisfied except if you leave, then let her be not satisfied. If no compromise is possible, then rather than destroying one another you two could leave each other be. It's a big wiki. Did you read the RFC and see that most of the reactions were in support of you? There is no pile-on to you. Ten people directly objected to Kelly's summary. Thirteen people claimed she took it too personally. Ten people said that both parties should tone down their comments a bit. Eighteen people said they hoped both would overcome the dispute and return to editing the 'pedia. There is no pile-on. There is no cabal. There is an unfortunate dispute and it's a fact of life that some people don't get along. And there are people that want you here. And there are people that want her here. And by far the most people want you both here, and that's certainly possible without running into one another. R adiant _>|< 23:44, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
I have reverted and reprotected the page on your RFC since it has been delisted and archived and therefore should not be editted anymore. You should still continue your discussions on the talk page though. Jtkiefer T | @ | C ----- 06:04, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
Now, before I start, I have not read the RfC against you. It would literally be a travesty to lose you on Wikipedia. Let's look at some things you're good at. RfA immediately springs to mind. Your nomination of User:Cryptic was incredibly well-crafted and obviously had a lot of time put into it. I was very impressed. Secondly, your edit summary/edit overview charts and statistics. They are always very useful and make people's lives as voters on RfA much easier: I'm certainly grateful.
Next we have your friendliness and sense of humour. Whenever asked a question, you are always polite and couteous in the response, even if it's another one of those darn stats requests!
Finally, your actual encyclopedaic contributions. They are always thorough, thought-through and have depth. As a result, you're comments have weight. You've got the experience and you deserve to use it. Please don't leave. We need many more people like you - so we don't want to lose this shining example of a Wikipedian. Please reconsider - as was said above, it's a big wiki. Plenty of room not to interact with eachother. :) Cheer up, eh? -- Cel e stianpower háblame 09:51, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
Welcome back, you seem rested. ;-) -- hydnjo talk 15:23, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
Sadly, I disagree with you on some of your points.
First, you say "My friendliness and sense of humour do not matter". That is not true. They matter a lot to the users who interact with you for the right reasons - to discuss articles or generally build community spirit. Improving the encyclopedia is exceedingly difficult without these qualities in users.
Then you say "My edits to Wikipedia, from the long view, do not matter". On one level, you're right. Eventually, your edits will be no more - overwritten with better information ...etc... But, if nobody makes good edits now, two things will happen. Most obviously, the encyclopedia won't grow. Secondly and most importantly in my opinion, the numbers of people using Wikipedia as an information source will stop increasing and possibly/probably/certainly decrease. They will go away due to misinformation, typos ...etc... This can't be good for anyone as we are trying to build the best encyclopedia in the world.
When you say "As a result of recent events, there will be a number of people whom I feel will vote oppose to any candidate I put forther just because I did the nominating." - this will not last forever. I, along with many, many others, will support because you did the nominating. You are easily, hands down the best nominator out there and you really have gained my respect (and I guess plenty of other peoples) because of this.
Also "being an admin places you in the line of fire of a number of people" - not to everyone. Granted, I've not been an admin for long but I've never had anything like this. I believe that cases like this (and yours) are in the minority.
I see that you're feelings over this are very deep. I really do hope that you or others find a way of resolving this. I hope you'll discover why you joined in the first place. And I hope that's soon. I am certainly not the only one who would miss you, should you leave. :) -- Cel e stianpower háblame 15:32, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
Welcome back, for a moment though I think we lost you.... =Nichalp «Talk»= 08:11, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
Hi, I noticed a graph on User:Redwolf24's user page and he told me to talk to you for a similar one on my userpage. :) Thanks. -- Cool Cat Talk 00:55, 14 November 2005 (UTC)
That was... interesting ... I hope you're still online :-) Kim Bruning 16:09, 14 November 2005 (UTC)
I did notice
this edit and despite our differences in the past, I truly side with you in this conflict. You have done nothing but behave in a very civil manner, and for some one to file an RfC on you is ludicrous. I have decided not to edit here much per se either, I see no point in it anymore.
Encyclopedist
M
!
19:52, 14 November 2005 (UTC)
Before you go, if you do, which I hope not, what is my current edit summary % usage...I have slight editcountitis :). Voice of All T| @| ESP 03:22, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
I hope this does not mean you have left again. Tis a shame. -- LV (Dark Mark) 17:01, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
Wow, maybe we should propose it, eh? Thanks again for the information. Karmafist 00:34, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
Sorry for the delay; I've done the graph for you. Your use of edit summaries is 28% overall. First 500 edits was 25%, last 500 was 39%. Your average edits per day is 49, and stable (not changed much since July or so). Your peak # of edits on a given day was 327 on April 1, 2005. You've had eight other days in excess of 200. You have contributed something on 85% of the days available since you started editing on February 4, 2005. I conclude; you're a nutcase and need psychological help for your addiction. More serious medical symptoms may set in with kidney failure due to not going to the bathroom when your body demands, acid reflux due to not eating, severe loss of weight due to same, severe repetitive stress symptoms most notably in the hands and wrists, and early onset of arthritis most likely in the wrists. I won't give you any more charts until the twitching stops. :) All the best, -- Durin 15:17, 18 November 2005 (UTC)
Greetings, Durin! Is there a way to merge my anonymous contributions into my existing edit contribution history? I've confirmed over two dozen anon edits that were mine by identifying articles I started, beginning with this cluster of edits, followed by these, another cluster, these, this, and this. Cheers! BD2412 T 04:29, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
Sorry if I caused offence with the comment on Jarth's RfA. No offence meant. The Land 16:01, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
No one is going to give in on this issue, so MfD may be the appropriate course of action. As long as you have the subpage, we can always direct people there, sort of like Zzyxz's RfA records page. I don't really know what to do, but I am getting tired of trying to defend this. -- LV (Dark Mark) 18:46, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
Hi Durin. I am contacting you regarding a recently filed RFC, Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Duncharris. I opened this channel of discussion as a means to resolve serious issues of incivility which were unresolvable through direct discussion with the subject of the RFC. As an outside third party, would you please review this discussion and share your perspective at your convenience? Thank you, Silensor 19:05, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
Hi, Durin. I understand You tagged this image for deletion because their is no source. It might be possible to remove the image and redirect users to the other image since this one is a duplicate. I am letting You know that You can find this image on another wikipedia page: Rail switch EddieSegoura 13:15, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
Hey - I'd like updated edit summary statistics and an edit statistic graph like you've done for others - Thanks! -- Randy 01:18, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
Hi Durin, I had corresponded with you sometime last month about my usage of edit summaries. I'd like you to consider me against your nomination standards for RfA and let me know if I pass muster. If you believe that I am good enough to be nominated by you, please look at User:Gurubrahma/Archive01, where, as a rough draft, I had answered the questions that are asked on a RfA. It'd be great if you can nominate me, as a nomination by you implies due diligence from you, which means a lot. I'd understand if you cannot nominate me, so please feel free to say so. My edit counts have been balanced in several namespaces and my edit summary usage has been ~ 99%. This time, I'll have your page on watchlist, so you can reply here. In case you plan to nominate me, Pl. do so by 30th evening/ 31st morning as I foresee hectic activity on personal front after December 8th. Thanks a lot, -- Gurubrahma 10:12, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
I've been getting into some discussion with an anonymous user on both of these articles, and would appreciate some involvement from other editors. If you'd care to help, do check out the Talk pages for both. Thanks. Ëvilphoenix Burn! 07:46, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
Heh - thanks. I'll try better next time. By the way, no problem whatsoever. I never lost faith in your brilliance as a Wikipeddian!!! -- Cel e stianpower hablamé 18:23, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
Hi! I'm turning to you with a request, if you don't mind and have some spare time, if you could do edit count graph on my contribs and my' bot's contribs on Slovene Wikipedia. TIA! Regards, -- Klemen Kocjancic 10:03, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
Hi Durin! It seems that your question on the reference desk has generated a number of responses. I hope you'll find them useful. -- HappyCamper 01:25, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
Just wanted to note that I'm glad to see you've come back to editing, as I note you've popped up on my watchlist a few times; I still don't always agree with you, but I'm happy to have been wrong about thinking you wouldn't return. (Also, you *do* nominate good admin candidates.) Mindspillage (spill yours?) 02:47, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
Arpingstone, that must have been said from some sort of zen-like yoga position whilst sitting on top of a mountain :) Nicely done!
Thank you for your amusing comment at
User talk:Arpingstone (copied above). I had considered an angry reply or perhaps to simply delete. I decided that I might be able to embarrass the contributor by replying seriously. However I don't expect he/she will ever see my reply! -
Adrian Pingstone
15:54, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
I didn't edit anything... Why am I getting threatened? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.235.102.2 ( talk • contribs)
Cool cat, My vote on Luigi30's RfA has nothing to do with how many edits he has. I personally wouldn't care if he had half the edits that he has. I really wouldn't. What concerns me is a very significant lack of involvement in the project. There are a broad spectrum of people who are involved in Wikipedia. Some are serious wikiholics, like User:BD2412. Some barely contribute, making just an edit here or there every few months or so. Outside of the users who edit once or twice and disappear, everyone is somewhere along that spectrum. A number of people, myself included, feel that being very close to the low activity end of the spectrum is bad for an admin. There are a number of reasons for this.
Emblematic of one of those reasons; Luigi, in response to critics of his low activity level, has had a surge today in activity. But, in at least two instances he has not followed procedure. He placed a copyright violation notice on Tarrytown Music Hall ( [16]), but did not place a notice regarding the copyvio at Wikipedia:Copyright problems/2005 December 5, per procedure. This also happened at Anna Rosmus ( [17]). An active contributor to Wikipedia would most likely not have made this error. Luigi30 in these instances is not demonstrating knowledge of procedure nor due diligence in properly executing procedure. This to me shows the marks of an inexperienced editor. This has nothing to do with how many edits he has; it has to do with his dedication, experience, and knowledge of current policy and procedure.
Personally, I think Luigi30 is very, very dedicated to IRC but he lacks dedication to Wikipedia. We're not building an IRC channel. That's not our purpose. Our purpose here is building an encyclopedia. His statements that he does not have the time to contribute much on Wikipedia right now are simply false. He did in fact make more than 1900 comments on IRC over the last three weeks, while making just 14 edits over the same 3 weeks to Wikipedia. He most definitely does have the time but, either passively or actively, has made a choice not to contribute to Wikipedia very much at all, and instead focus his time on the IRC channel. I don't have any problem with someone being on the IRC channel. But, to use school taking up his time as an excuse while being highly active on IRC is simply fallacious.
If Luigi30 spent a fraction of the time he spends on IRC learning Wikipedia policy/procedure and demonstrated proper execution of same, I probably wouldn't have any problem supporting him. But, right now, he's simply proving the point that his activity level is problematic. This isn't "RfA cult"ism or "editcountism".
Thanks for your attention, -- Durin 16:09, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
A last minute note I was not criticising YOU spesificaly but the general idea in some peoples minds who are obsessed with editcountism. Dont take it personal ok? :) -- Cool Cat Talk| @ 16:22, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
Hey Durin, I get the impression that you are no lover of IRC for whatever reason but I'd like to have chat with you if possible. My nick is Talrias - could you ping me if you're on? Talrias ( t | e | c) 19:14, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
Patience :) Talking with someone else right now. -- Durin 19:49, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
Durin, since you were involved in this discussion before, I thought you may be interested in taking part in this new discussion and poll: Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_adminship#Poll_for_consensus. Owen× ☎ 23:42, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
Dear Durin, I've become an admin with a final tally of 50-0-0 and I've already used the rollback a couple of times. I am planning to lie low for a week with my admin rights as I want to be clear abt what exactly I'm doing with them. I am here to thank you from the bottom of my heart for your efforts in preparing the nom. Though it doesn't need mention, I'd be failing in my duty if I do not say that it was more a positive vote for you and your nomination rather than my contribs alone. It also puts on me the responsibility that I do not do anything silly, stupid or foolish. I'm happy abt the absence of neutral votes and negative votes and feel that the number of positive votes was also on the higher side. Sometimes, I feel that RfAs such as mine and BD2412's should be shown as links rather than transcluded ;). I don't think you need any re-confirmation abt the value people perceive in you, but if you needed one, look no further than my RfA and the comments therein.
As ur userpage is watchlisted by me, I've followed the exploits of the trolls on IRC from ur comments - don't feed the trolls, a cliche'd advice doesn't seem to work with these guys. I'm planning to raise on Village Pump, the issue of banning ppl from IRC when their record on Wikipedia is above board. If Wikipedia cannot discuss it as a part of policy, I'd also suggest that it stop advertising the IRC channel (as they do whenever the servers are down and the error message is displayed, asking the users to look at IRC for the time being). It is surprising to see how helpful you've been to people you hardly knew before, by helping them through analysis of their edits, doing the graphs, raising the level of debate and above all, improving the quality of ppl. I was going through your RfA yesterday and was amazed to see how you converted a "would be vandal" to a "handsome contributor." Due to all these reasons, I think I have something that suits you to a tee, the Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar.-- Gurubrahma 07:02, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
I know #wikipedia invaded Poland in 1939, but many of us have been much nicer since then - David Gerard 22:12, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
Although my RfA is not over yet, I figured that since so many people voted before it had been posted, I may as well start thanking people before it wraps up. It'll take me that long to thank everyone who voted anyway! Thank you, Durin, for your support - although I didn't break the 200 that you projected, it was nonetheless quite a ride. I shall do my best as an admin to make the reality of Wikipedia rise to the level of the dream. BD2412 T 23:46, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
Durin!! Thanks for checking in. The family continues to do well--both grandparents are recovering and seem to be doing better at home than they had been in the hospital--imagine that! I've been away focusing on school for a few days, so I apologize for the delay in responding.
How are things going in your end of the world?? Anything I can help with??
Talk to you soon and thanks again! >: Roby Wayne Talk 00:34, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
My inclination is to say that, if text is posted someplace where any person with an internet connection can see it, even if they have to sign up for an account or the like, then there is no expectation of privacy such that it would be inadmissible in a criminal action. Bear in mind that only the government is prohibited from acquiring evidence through a violation of the subject's right to privacy. In civil suits between private parties, there would be no bar to the admission of such evidence. In terms of making such conversations public, that would not be illegal, but might give rise to a cause of action for invasion of privacy if (again) the subject had a reasonable expectation of privacy. I'll have to work on this question some more, tho. BD2412 T 17:25, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
Ooops, thanks and sorry. Sebastian Kessel Talk 21:07, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
Hi Durin, I was just wondering if I could have your honest opinion of me and my contributions. I think that I am ready to contribute more to wikipedia, and I think of myself as capable of handling the added responsibility. The thing I would like to know is if you would nominate me for adminship. I have read your guidelines for admin nomination pretty thoroughly and I think I can meet your criteria. If you don't think I am up to the task, or that I am in some way not ready yet, then by all means please let me know. I assure you that I will not walk away from wikipedia should I not become an admin. However, I think I can help do more if I was. Thanks for your time. -- malo (tlk) (cntrbtns) 21:43, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
Durin, I just wanted to thank you for your nomination of me and all the work you put into
my rfa. I am quite sure that your extremely well researched nomination made me look very favorable as an admin canidate. I hope that I can live up to the trust that you have shown you have in me. Thanks again. --
malo
(tlk)
(cntrbtns)
04:22, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
Heard you were feeling ill. Get well soon!
Oh, and note there's some informal competition going on between certain folks as to who does the most good admin nominations. If it's ok for others to check out your list... hmmm! Kim Bruning 04:22, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
Actually, the word "Bengalooru" which has been anglicised as "Bangalore" was believed to have derived from "Bendakalooru" - hamlet of boiled beans. Scholars have now established that it was never Bendakalooru but always Bengalooru. This suggests that Yahoo has not done its homework and is as reliable as Wikipedia !!!! ;-) -- Gurubrahma 05:50, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
Durin, What I did was correct a mistake that somebody made when moving the RFA. The "end date" was changed to "Wednesday 16". I should've moved it to "Friday 16" or "Wednesday 14". Since I didn't remember the "correct" day and my original signature was on the 7th, I chose the 14 and explained what I did in my edit summary with the hopes that somebody caught it if I was wrong. I know you're Assuming good faith, and I don't blame you for assuming it was my problem. :)
Sebastian Kessel Talk 16:08, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
Is there a reason you re-inserted a POV rant into Medal of Honor? -- Carnildo 01:07, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
Greetings. Apologies for my undoing of your rv'ing of the heavily POV edit at Medal of Honor [3]. You were in the right. I must have accidentally hit the "rollback" link. My apologies. -- Durin 22:40, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
Hello, again. I am glad to see you back and feeling better. Some time ago you raised the possibility of nominating for admin duties. It is something I have though about from time to time for quite a while, but never pursued because I didn't see that much that I couldn't already do. Today I learned of a new special page: unwatched pages. It's available only to admins. I already have a big watchlist, but I'm willing to add my fair share of unwatched pages to it, especially for pages I have some knowledge of. If you are willing to help me, I think I'm ready to work on my nomination. Best regards, Jonathunder 23:12, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
Hi Durin,
I was wondering if I could get a graphic with all my edits, I've heard you've got a special macro on excel for it. Thanks in advance.
User:Laurent_Van_Winckel
Thanks for your changes to that page. Unfortunately, though I've yet to do an update on the page, it's generated automatically. Eventually, your changes will be overwritten by future updates. My apologies. -- Durin 15:11, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
I have to be at my parent's house at 8:30 tomorrow... you'd think I'd get some sleep. As for adminship, about a month ago I'd noticed myself on User:Durin/My guidelines for admin nomination and was flattered. But I decided I just wanted to get the RfA out of the way so I accepted the first time anyone wanted to nominate me... it's nice to have admin tools and not have to bug other admins to get stuff done. Anyway, Merry Christmas! -- W.marsh 05:20, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
Hello Durin,
I noticed you were the one who protected the article on How to Make a Sprite Comic in Eight Easy Bits; rightfully so, I saw some of the vandalism that was going on there and it was not a pretty sight. In the meantime, however, I've written a rather lengthy article on the sprite comic that bears that name and would like to ask for the article to be unprotected so it can be put up. -- R. Wolff 23:29, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
The content of this page is an archive of User talk:Durin. Please do not modify it.
Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:
I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this: ~~~. Four tildes (~~~~) produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome! - UtherSRG 01:38, Apr 8, 2005 (UTC)
Thanks! -- Durin 01:51, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Hi! A few days ago I started to complete the List of ships of the United States Navy--and soon found it was way too big for one page. I split it by pushing all the decommissioned ships out onto the [[List of all ships of the United States Navy, <InitialLetter>]] pages, leaving only the active ships (and those which will be). So, I'm taking USS Fearless (MSO-442) back off the main page. Incidently, the ship's page doesn't say anything about the hull, but as a minesweeper I presume it's some sort of wood construction, which seems noteworthy. —wwoods 06:41, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)
If you examine the history [1]., and look at the "last" links for the edits in January and December, you'll see that some anonymous editors were having a bit of fun. I don't usually remember to put image pages on my watchlist, which is how they got away with it for so long. Stan 02:51, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Thank you for giving me credit for the articles I actually have completed. However, I still believe Dream Guy is a real creep (just read the things that other people have to say about him). I agree to cease and desist with the vandalism, you, unlike DreamGuy, actually come to me like I am a human being, instead of some idiot. I appreciate that a lot. I am going to try to contribute to Spanish Wikipedia, but I still get lazy writing those articles. On a related note, you can help me on the article on William Lynch.
P.S. I saw your notice on the W. Lynch ad and I agree that it needs clean up. I confess, I am not going to take "all" my time to complete Wikipedia articles (after all it is free). I am too lazy. (Why do you all do that) ... Just playing. But listen, please assist me on this article. The information is too hard to find on such a topic. Anything you can post regarding dates, or whatever, will really help me out a lot. I think that it important what people realize the impact he had on the Southern slave community. I also feel it is a shame that it took Wikipedia so long to have an article on such an important man. Please help me on this article.
Yours truly,
Signed (I don't know my IP address from memory) lol. (:
Dont forget to sig your posts/vots, like on Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Nick vs. Andy just add a ~~~~ and the system will sig it for you. -- Boothy443 | comhrÚ 06:08, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Indeed, the same user seems to be putting up a whole bunch of family history articles. I've put notes (based on Template:Vanity) at User talk:70.242.12.105 and then User talk:Dbail999 - let's hope we can win this newcomer over to the good side gently. Samaritan 02:00, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Heyas. Wikipedia let me move Herman B. Wells to Herman B Wells which I saw you tried to do before. Just thought I'd let you know. I was going to update your user page since it was one of the links that pointed to Herman B. Wells but I decided that it was too bold. You can certainly change it if you want though! Anyway, just thought you'd like to know. - SocratesJedi | Talk 17:43, 5 May 2005 (UTC)
I moved the article that I had posted to William Lynch Speech, I added several changes and an external source, so I think it should be up to the quality-or at least close to- that of Wikipedia by now. Dbraceyrules 20:32, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
Given the content of the tables seems identical I think it hardly matters which one goes. Just make sure that one of them is linked to on the ships wikiproject class footer table list. David Newton 06:49, 20 May 2005 (UTC)
I've moved the VfD pointer for this article. The user has created articles for all of his teachers. We might as well vote on all of them at once. -- Xcali 21:47, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
No worries about the user page comment. Last time I checked, we were all human. I've done it myself. -- Xcali 22:10, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Sounds good - I wasn't opposed to having an article there at all - just opposed to having that particular article there, which seemed wholly unhelpful. Snowspinner 23:40, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)
content was "Maurice Goode,Jr. born( August 21, 1991 in Memphis,Tennessee).Phenominal basketball player who plays for Craigmont High School" i.e. substub speedied for little or no content, the kid can't spell and is obviously very vain. Dunc| ☺ 20:54, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
(Belated) thanks for these links. I haven't had much time for Wikipedia lately, but when I do they'll be useful. —wwoods 03:17, 27 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for the help. Some of the info pertaining to Missouri's historical status I incoporated into the "1993-present" section. Also, I reworked the pictures in the "WWII" sections to make the article more atractive to the eye. And a HUGE thank-you for the radar and other electronic specs; I had been hoping that someone would insert those into the article. TomStar81 1 July 2005 22:28 (UTC)
Please consider adding yourself to Category: Indiana Wikipedians.
Thanks! Kurt Weber 8 July 2005 21:21 (UTC)
You're absolutely right. I made the mistake of doing some RC patrolling during a stressful part of the day and the amount of vanity articles, vandal bot stubs and just plain weird stuff that came in during that time was overwhelming. Got a bit hot under the collar. Sorry 'bout the flare-up. - Lucky 6.9 21:56, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for the congratulations. There would be some links between your old and new name if you changed, though these could probbably be minimised. There's no real policy on this yet but what could be help is to record the change as "<name removed> changed to newname" rather than displaying your old name in the archived requests page. However, the automatic log isn't editable, and the old name would show up in that. You would need to change the links to your user page manually. Your original signature would still be in the page history. Angela . 02:14, July 15, 2005 (UTC)
This article is not speediable. It is a candidate for VfD, but it does not meet criteria for speedy deletion. Please see this page for which articles can and cannot be speedied. Thanks. Denni ☯ 02:04, 2005 July 17 (UTC)
Hey, dont mean to be writing on you page but I didn't know any other way to contact you. You have marked my SmartCOP page as a possible copyright infringement. However, I am posting the paper on behalf of the author of the paper and the creator of SmartCOP. So, please undo what you did or direct me on how to post this information. Thanks unsigned edit by 157.127.124.134 ( talk · contribs)
Thanks for the message, and I have added the category to my user page. I have also expanded the information on Lake Monroe, and if you have anything else to add it would be a great help. Thanks. Eightball 21:00, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for correcting that typo on my user page. I appreciate it! -- Canderson 7 16:19, July 25, 2005 (UTC)
OK - you convinced us :) {{ Horseracing-stub}} is off and racing! Grutness... wha? 01:52, 30 July 2005 (UTC)
Hello! I noticed in one your image contributions that you have made a graph of edits made to a page. Do you have a good solution to this question I asked on the reference desk a while ago? Please let me know if you do! Thanks! -- HappyCamper 21:28, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
Although you created Image:Olympicsicon.gif yourself, the IOC owns rights to the symbol. You might want to mention something in the image description that there are restrictions on the use of the symbol. You already are aware of the message in Image:Olympic-rings.png. ( SEWilco 17:32, 16 August 2005 (UTC))
Hiya. Just wanted to thank you for supporting my recent RfA. Cheers! -- Ngb 19:20, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
I considered using PG-13 for the title of this ship, however, this appears to be a neoligism at best. The hull classification system wasn't instituted until 1920, and this ship was decommissioned and struck by that time. The DANFS history makes no reference to this designation. However, I don't feel strongly about it and would be fine with a move and redirect, if you'd like. She apparently was called "Gunboat Number 13," and her sister ships received the hull classification of "PG" and you have the NHC reference, so it isn't completely outside the scope. Jinian 19:30, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
I renamed them because Frankfurt has a rather complicated, overlapping division structure that includes larger Stadtbezirke which, I think, more closely correspond to the word district (it also has smaller units as well). At least one of these categories will probably have to use a foreign word. These still need to be added. What really needs to be done is translate all of the German articles about different German forms of city organization and federal organization. Gemeinde, Kreise, Stadtteile, Stadtbezirke, Ortsteile, etc. These are often not easy to translate to English. There are similar issues across all of German geography. Tfine80 15:20, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
Yes, the reason that they are stubs first is that I wanted to transfer the templates in a methodical way and then let people translate the articles from the German during the creation of the Wikireader for Wikimania and then at Wikimania itself. I plan to continually update these. And a lot of other German cities have separate categories... See districts of Berlin, for example. But, you're right, a lot of work still needs to be done. You can join us at Wikipedia:Wikiproject Frankfurt if you are interested in the city's organization. Tfine80 15:26, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
Perhaps the categories should be in English... I will have a vote in the Wikiproject about what to name them. There should be a standard between all of the other German, Austrian, Swiss cities. Perhaps boroughs and districts are the best way, but I would need to ask someone from Frankfurt. Tfine80 15:40, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
Btw, I just realized I didn't even rename it in the first place. I made the template and was working on it from the beginning. Tfine80 15:45, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for bringing that to my attention. It get confusing when taking pictures from NavSource sometimes as the majority of them are usually US Navy images. Every once in a while there's one of these copyrighted ones that users have submitted and it must have slipped by me. Thanks for catching it and replacing it. -- ScottyBoy900Q ∞ 21:52, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
I only just now saw your reply to the Wikipedia:Copyright problems#August 11 section where you claimed that several book covers did not fall under fair use. I'm afraid your arguments don;t really make sense. Yes, those images were taken from the website and not scanned, but that makes no difference. Yes, they claim ownership of the image, but then that's not any different from any other image, scanned or not. Doing your own scan of a book does not effect the ownership of that image in any way, even though you scanned it it is still owned by the copyright owner just as if you lifted it off their website. Fair use is a legal exception to copyright law, so the fact that you can quote a sentence from their website saying that they owned it doesn't matter. I strongly recommend you not lable any more book covers as copyright violations, and I hope you withdraw your complaints about these, as the page is already overflowing with real violations. Thanks. DreamGuy 04:17, August 27, 2005 (UTC)
Not much we can do about the log since it's read only and recreating and redeleting the page will only append to it. The log entries won't show up in mirrors or in most web searches, however, so you may find that it doesn't matter much in practice. Since other users follow the deletion log to check for out-of-process deletions, I had to supply a reason when deleting the page. The Uninvited Co., Inc. 16:07, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
Hey could you please, if its not a problem, make a graph showing my edit count
[2] and put it on
my Rfa. I'd think it'd be interesting to see how my edits are.
Jobe
6
22:15, September 7, 2005 (UTC)
Hey Durin, thanks for your vote on my recent RFA, your support was appreciated :) -- Joolz 11:27, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
Hi! Just wanted to let you know that your user page wasn't vandalized. Category:Indiana Wikipedians is being merged into Category:Wikipedians in Indiana. Just wanted to let you know ;-). Roby Wayne Talk • Hist 03:06, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
Greetings. I did not take a voluntary break from editing Wikipedia from June to August of this year. My husband and I had been sharing a house with a (now former) friend from January; in early June, relations with her began to deteriorate, culminating in my husband and I needing to flee our former residence at half past midnight on a Sunday night, after our roommate flipped out and started making threats of violence against us. We then needed to find a new place to live, extract our possessions from the crazy woman's house (still not entirely complete—she refuses to turn over some of our more valuable possessions, like my husband's wedding ring), and get our Internet connection hooked back up, in the middle of a telco strike. -- IceKarma 18:33, 19 September 2005 UTC
I like the edit graphs you periodically put on RfAs. How do you make them? I was thinking of doing some myself. Andre ( talk) 19:15, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
I've noticed you use a lookup table to convert month name to number. A slightly simpler way would be a function call, such as:
=MONTH(CONCATENATE("1-",F2,"-05"))
so H2 would now read:
=IF(C2<>"",MONTH(CONCATENATE("1-",F2,"-05")),"")
Of course you can change the "1-" and "-05" to any strings that give a valid date. (But by this point you could simply concatenate the original three fields into a valid date...) Owen× ☎ 20:20, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
Hi, thanks for your helpful suggestions. I had already decided to wait until I had at least 1,500 edits. I expect that I might get from 1,500 to 2,000 quite quickly, as I'll have finished exams at that stage. I don't expect to go up before November, anyway, and if I don't feel confident at that stage, I'll wait even longer. There are a lot of things I want to find out, first, so that I really feel like an experienced Wikipedian. What does "bot" mean? When should I use – and when should I use — ? Should references (linking to documents of other websites) be done like [this] or like [this]? And so on.All the information is there, but I have to browse through Wikipedia a bit longer to familiarize myself with it. Ann Heneghan (talk) 00:34, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for taking the time to spell out your views on User:V. Molotov's RFA on his talk page. (I took advantage by following it with a "me too" message.) FreplySpang (talk) 20:10, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
For your charts making the WP:RFA process easier to understand, I give you the The Graphic Designer's Barnstar. Congrats. Zach (Sound Off) 21:10, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
Hello, Durin, great work on the graphs on the RfA! I read your explanatory page on the graphy, and I would be interested in seeing a graph of my edits. I am an admin already, and do have 4000+ edits. I know you're busy, so you might not have time to fulfill my request, but I thought it would be nice to see a visual of all my edits. If you do one for me, thanks, and if you don't, thanks anyways for creating such a great service! Your efforts are appreciated. Flcelloguy | A note? | Desk | W S 21:28, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
Yes, I meant the Wikimedia Quarto -- hmmm, no Wikipedia article yet. The Statistics part of the reports page is its most popular section; we're planning to have a separate page for statistical reports starting with WQ 4 & 5 (covering April thru June and July thru September). Brian0918 and Erik Zachte have been very helpful so far; but there is enough work to merit a proper stats team each quarter. It would be lovely to have some extra statistics on users of the English Wikipedia, which is still many times larger than the next few largest projects combined... something like % of edits with summaries, or % of new articles by IPs, or # of edits per week by the week's top 10 editors [maybe per day, if there are interesting variations]. There is a lot to work with; perhaps you have better ideas of your own! +sj + 21:45, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
Oops! Talk about the pot calling the kettle black... I accuse bob of not using Edit summaries and then I forget to sign! I guess I shouldn't be editing past my bedtime. :P Thanks for filling in my signature! Owen× ☎ 22:08, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
MarkGallagher told me you made a graph for someone's edits... did you use a script for that or did you do that all manually? Cause I'd like a graph like that for myself, but I've got over 8000 edits so thatd take me forever if its manual... R e dwolf24 ( talk) 04:10, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
Nichalp; I'll use png and date form as you suggested. -- Durin 13:44, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
Thanks a lot! I gotta go to school REALLY soon so I'll make this quick. 52 edits? If you take away May, where I have 0 edits, I have 68 edits per day! Also, edit summaries, I dont summarize on user talk pages, look at my edit distrib. Gtg now. R e dwolf24 ( talk) 14:19, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
I know I'm not an admin nominee, nor that I have less than 2000, so my chances are slim to none, but I had to ask ;) would you consider doing a chart for me? -- ( ☺drini♫| ☎) 03:00, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
I would love to get a chart done. :) Already an admin and I have well over 15000 edits, I'd just be interested in seeing how my editing has evolved. Thanks in advance. :) -- Golbez 03:15, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
My dear Durin, I am touched by your words of encouragement, and deeply moved that you took the time to send them to me. This shows your quality as a great person, and you can be sure that I'll never forget them. In moments like this I should hold myself from becoming too emotional, something that I'm afraid has become all too evident at my RfA :( But I can't help it; hey, that's me!
All I wish to say is a plain old boring "thank you", said from the heart. As I said, I know that you acted with conscience and good will as a responsible member of the community, and for that, I praise you wholeheartedly. You are a hard working contributor, an extremely talented one, and I rest assured that you'll be a hundred times better as an admin as I could ever aspire to be. I sincerely want to put your mind at rest that I never felt attacked from you, nor by any other voter. My unrest came from the mantle of suspicion that I felt in Grace's words, that my late edits looked too much like I was pumping up my edit count. From a neutral perspective, I understand her position, and I don't blame her in the least; as you said, a 12 sigma change is an astonishing change (whatever a sigma change is! I have no clue of technical statistics, but I can infere the meaning
). The thing was, I explained the motives with nothing but the truth, yet I saw more people adhering to Grace's idea, and no word of reply from her. That's when I felt like "hey, I've never done anything wrong, my record is clean, never been in a serious edit dispute, always treated everyone with respect, worked hard to provide everyone with only the best quality material I can write... does that mean nothing to you guys? What happened to the 'Assume good faith' thing?" But your beautiful and truthful words, the caring support of my dear Wiglaf (you know you two can get along, do you?) and those of other good friends, and everyone else who gave me their support; even those who, like Ryan Norton, had good things to say about me but felt they needed to see more, have shown me the truth. I must get used to the idea that 'Assuming good faith' is something that some people will never embrace, and that's doesn't make them any worse than anyone else; it's just how they are. Only because it is deeply rooted within my nature doesn't make me more true than them. Grace herself strikes me as a great person, and echoing her words, I don't want to be critical; perhaps all she needs it to know me more.
These last three days have been the most intense wikitime I've ever had; and at the moment, all I can think is that, whatever the outcame is, I've gained more than I could have expected. I've gained lots of experience and most important, new good friends that I hope to keep as long as I can. I hope you like to consider me as such from now on.
You know, I really get carried on when writing? Jesus, look how many words! You know how many edits I could have done in this time? (bad editcountitis joke). I think it's time to release you. Thank you so much for your words. They really meant a lot to me. Btw, I guess I should go and vote at "someone"s RfA... Will you excuse me now? Hugs, Shauri Yes babe? 23:35, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
Thank you for your kind support of my recent nomination on RfA. The chart you compiled of my edit history was of great interest. By the way, I was delighted to support your own candidacy once mine had run its course - you'll be a fine admin. Best regards, RobertG ♬ talk 09:27, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
Hi, Durin, I noticed your comment here. I'd like to be able to remind myself of stuff. What's a tickler file, please? Bishonen | talk 18:32, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
Per my personal tradition, whenever I vote yes in RFA, I offer the candidate not just a barnstar, but a whole barn due to the vast responsibilities that they'll soon have to face. Maybe you can store the extras of your awesome chart in there :-) Karmafist 00:41, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
Could you provide one of your charts for Graft's RFA nom? I think it would be useful. Dragons flight 13:47, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
Hi, I just tried to use your chart from the formulas you had on User:Durin/Admin nominee charts, but no dice. Can you help? Also, I redirected the link at the bottom of that page that went to your contributions page directly towards the charts section. Excuse me if that was rude, I was just trying to help. Karmafist 16:31, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
G'day Durin. May I say that I share your views about edit counts. Regarding the chart, I followed your instructions and it was all successfully bar the formula for column G in the second worksheet.
Your instructions state:
Then, in column G I add in this function:
"=IF(ISNA(VLOOKUP(F2,$A$2:$B$175,2,FALSE)),0,VLOOKUP(F2,$A$2:$B$175,2,FALSE)")
and copy it to every subsequent row used in column F.
This formula kept generating zeros. In the end I had to manually enter the no. of the edits per day into column G. Can you tell me if this formula is correct. Regards Ianblair23 04:16, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
Congratulations, you are now a sysop - and well deserved too, on a 61/0 vote! If you have not already done so, now is the time to read the Wikipedia:Administrators' how-to guide and Wikipedia:Administrators' reading list. All the best, Warofdreams talk 14:43, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
Disagree? Can you explain on what basis (I am confused). Thanks. Guettarda 17:01, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
Congratulations on your new adminship! And thank you for your helpful comments and chart on my RfA. Owen× ☎ 17:25, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
Yay! Congrats on your well-deserved adminship, Durin! Let's have a drink, everybody! Durin's paying! *Hugglz*,
Shauri
smile!
20:38, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
Shhh... don't tell anyone. So what if he/she was here first. I'm the genuine article, baby. I'm the cat's pajamas, the bee's knees. He/she is the fake McCoy. :-) -- Lord Vold e mort (Dark Mark) 17:15, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
I'll concede...I am not particularly mad at you, though. (i.e. I didn't oppose you on your RfA). However, I do get upset when dealing with several arrogant users on this site; I can't always hold my temper - and I have seen other Wikipedians who have also blewn their cool.
Molotov
(talk)
22:44, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
As a sign of not being angry, have this barnstar:
Take care,
Molotov
(talk)
23:15, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
(next response) D'Juan; not meaning to gloss over anything you've said, but I want to highlight a particular section because I think my response will help to address the remainder. On my talk page, you said "I can't go against human nature and let someone slap me in the face and turn the other cheek. I can't allow arrogant users to believe what they are doing is right or to kiss their ass. I can't allow my freedoms to be taken away. And the bottom line is that this is so bad, I can leave Wikipedia and we can both be happy."
Allow me to give you a hypothetical set of responses to, as you have said, an "arrogant pompous user" who has greatly angered you with something they have done to your user page. You could respond by undoing the vandalism and...
or
Now, you haven't responded like the second response above. But, your responses to people have been considerably closer to (2) at times than to (1).
Let's take a step back from this and take an above-the-trees look at the situation. What are your goals? The only goal that I can see is to stop the user vandalizing your user page, or any page on Wikipedia. Defending your honor in front of these people is not a worthwhile goal. You've never met these people, likely never will, and their opinions of you have absolutely no bearing on your life. Furthermore, your anger with them will not cause them to stop vandalizing your user page. Nothing that you can say to them in anger is going to do anything to stop them from doing more vandalizing. You have no physical way of stopping them. Using anger at them isn't going to make the situation any better. If instead you warn the user and later involve an admin if they continue (feel free to ask me to step in by the way), you can get the individual blocked, and/or have your user page temporarily protected.
When a user angers me (and they do at times) it's not a matter of turning the cheek. I recognize the relative importance in my life of the people here; they have no..zero..zip...nadda..impact on my life. Their opinions of me do not matter. Anger is not a response that is going to yield anything productive. When you removed my comments to you on your user page following your withdrawn RfA and in the edit summary said "rv assholes", I could have taken great offense, and responded to you in like manner, calling you an asshole for ignoring my attempts to help you. Instead, I attempted to re-engage you in discussion. Result? We're talking again! That's good! That's productive! If I'd gotten angry with you, you'd be pissed off, I'd be pissed off, and nothing positive would have happened.
I can write just as much vitriol as anyone else can. I spent 8 years in the US Navy Reserves. I can dress someone down with insults with the best of them and leave them crying for their mommies. But, it sure doesn't prove to anyone that I am any more of a 'man', or get them to do what I want them to do. As you say, human nature is to respond to anger with anger. Where does it stop? FOCUS on the goals you want to achieve. IDENTIFY what tasks you need to do to achieve those goals. GO AFTER those tasks with all of your intelligence. With those steps you will achieve great things. If you instead choose to get angry whenever someone upsets you, you are no better than an animal force to respond to the demands of your DNA; completely subservient to 'human nature' and incapable of rising about the primordial muck and becoming something more.
Nobody will respect you for being able to dish out hate-filled vitriol. People will respect you for being a leader, and resolving situations in a calm, mature manner. You are very intelligent. Don't waste yourself in the primordial muck of 'human nature'. Aspire to be better. -- Durin 22:23, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
{{ Anon vandal}} {{ test1}}
I know you do it for almost everybody, but thanks anyway for the chart on my RfA. :)
-- Sebastian Kessel Talk 22:54, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
While it hasn't "officially" closed yet, your RfA is technically complete. With 42-5, I think it's safe to say you passed :) Congratulations! Welcome to the Cabal! ;) -- Durin 14:10, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
Durin!! :-) You've inspired me. Traveling, I am often stuck in a hotel room for hours on end and decided to see if I could emulate your charts. I followed your guidelines and developed a script in .php to perform the download and generate the chart. Considering the variability of Wikipedia's speed ;-), the ones I did for you and I took 4 minutes from beginning (downloading the contributions log) to end (generating the charts)....completely automagic...and doesn't require MS--woo hoo.
I need to cleanup the chart formats. Some of the labels are not legible in the x-axis...probably need to adjust the tick marks....and the pie labels need to be adjusted--I don't like how they are placed.
Anyhow. As the "father" of charting here, I was wondering if you could provide any suggestions on the posting I made to User:RobyWayne/Sandbox. I have a similar page of information for you, but I didn't want to post it without your permission.
P.S. Congrats on the Adminship. You truly deserve it.
Best regards. >: Roby Wayne Talk • Hist• E@ 16:29, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
Firstly thank you for your kind words both on my RfA page and my talk page. It doesn't look too likely that I'll be an admin just yet does it! :) I've taken your advice on board, thanks again for taking the time to want to help me out. However, I've had a look through the list you have compiled (thanks for that too :), you really didn't need to put yourself out that far but thanks) and I don't recognise any of those. I must have got it a bit wrong, my memory is a bit blank though. I was sure it started with Grant but it doesn't seem that way now.
Grant,
Grantwin and
Grantslaw definitely aren't me though.
Wikiwoohoo
18:43, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
Thank you for my RfA. I finished answering the fist question and then my mom called to let me know my grandfather has had a heartattack. It would be the third one in as many weeks, so hopefully, he'll pull through this one just fine. Once I make sure he is okay, I'll answer the three questions and make the appropriate date/time changes and include my RfA on the RfA list.
Thank you for trusting me enough to nominate me. I promise to serve the community well. Best regards, >: Roby Wayne Talk • Hist• E@ 23:29, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
Since I'm thinking of running for admin soon, I was wondering if you could tell me what percentage of my edits have edit summaries. (I noticed you did this for ALinkToThePast.) I was formerly WikiFan04, as well. -- WikiFanatic Talk Contribs 21:10, 7 October 2005 (CDT)
Oops, I'll be more careful next time.-- Shanel 00:15, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
Durin,
I didn't realize that I had claimed another's account when I signed an earlier post. At the time, I wasn't even sure how that was done. I do; however, appreciate you bringing it to my attention.
Doctor9
Please do not remove a {{ copyvio}} notice from an article while the copyright issues are still pending. Most of the article is a copyright violation, including the large portions of text that I removed, before determining that the opening sections of the article also constituted a copyright violation. Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted text, period. If you would like to re-write the article to help clear the article from being a copyright violation, you may do so at Carolina Forest, South Carolina/Temp. However, please do not remove the {{ copyvio}} notice until this issue is resolved. Thank you. Ëvilphoenix Burn! 14:08, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
Sorry about that. I've been doing it for months (only if there are at least 10 more oppose votes than there are support). Nobody even brought this up to me before. Either way, I'll stop. Thanks for the heads-up. Ac e tic ' Acid 16:58, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
Hmmm...I think you may be right, he shouldn't be blocked indefinately. I'll unblock immediately and remove the indef block notice. If he returns to vandalizing, I'll let another administrator handle it, after all, there are 600 of us, I can't be the only one who finds profane user page vandalism inappropriate.
Feel free to review my blocklog to your hearts content, as well as my other logs, and my contributions. I stand behind all my administrator actions and all my (6100+) edits. If you find anything you disagree with, please feel free to correct it, I don't mind at all. I stay around here because it's fun, not because I need the power.
I'm very concerned that this block calls into question all blocks I've made in my three months as an administrator, but seeing as there is obviously question in the community over whether I am able to responsibly utilize my administrator powers, or for that matter, make any positive contribution to the community, I will file an RfC against myself to guage whether the commmunity believes they were in error to have placed their trust in me. If you wish, I will also agree to go on Wikibreak (enforced by a desysoping and block, if necessary) until the RfC concludes. If the community does not trust me, then I do not want to be left in power; if the community does not want me to contribute, then I will go back to spending my free time elsewhere. Please feel free to add your concerns to the RfC after I have filed it. -- Essjay · Talk 18:30, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
You're not the first to suggest that I might be overusing/abusing my admin powers (not even the first this week), so I think a guage of community consensus is in order. I've said all along, I welcome anyone in the community to review my activities and call me on anything that is out of line; I strive to be an accountable and approachable steward (in the non-WP sense) of the community's trust. I don't want power that the community does not want me to have, and I don't want to be immune from challenge on inappropriate actions. There are admins who are not responsive to question of their activities, and who, either because of their community perception or their longevity, are immune from community outcry. I don't want to be one of those admins. I strive in everything to build the community's trust in me and to obtain, retain, and advance the respect of the community.
I think your analogy is exactly right, and I think it applies to what I've said perfectly: When a user commits vandalsim, the other edits are checked. When there is question that the user's actions in the community may be inappropriate (i.e. vandalism) they are taken to RfC (or RfAr, as the case may be). I see this as the logical extension of the process. -- Essjay · Talk 19:18, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
Durin! Thanks for the very kind words you left for me last Friday. It was a dreadful weekend, but everything seems to be okay right now. My grandmother ended up in the hospital (a different one, of course, to make it logistically difficult), too, with blood clots while my grandfather was stabilized and is still in ICU. Anyhow, I wanted to thank you for your kindness. It is truly appreciated. Best regards, >: Roby Wayne Talk • Hist• E@ 21:19, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
Unvoted. Yeah, I probably shouldn't have come to work this week, either. I've apologized and thanked each and everyone for their comments. Hey, if it doesn't happen this time, it will some other. I still appreciate your faith in me and continued support. Big noob error on my part that I have tried to cleanup. My commitment hasn't/won't change. :-). Any more ideas on the charts?? I cleaned up a few things...still need to fix that Edit Summary calc. Since it is in "raw" format, I have a few more html tags to sort out to get it quite right. After I fix that, I can run yours so you'll be more experienced with the information. As you have preached stated repeatedly, counts don't make the editor and there is no script in the world that can possibly determine if someone is doing a good job. >:
Roby Wayne
Talk •
Hist•
E@
22:43, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
A big thank you for your help and support, I look forward to meeting you in more productive contexts, Yours, Trollderella 23:51, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
Hi, I'm just posting a friendly notice stating that I have got Brain Teasers on my user page that you're welcome to have a go at. Will post new questions one day after they have been answered. Thanks... Spawn Man 05:06, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
Noticed your graphs at WP:VfA (eg: Image:Sebastiankessel-edits.png), very useful. How are they generated? I think they could be useful for tracking growth rates of disambiugation pages, as a part of Wikipedia:Disambiguation pages maintenance.-- Commander Keane 09:17, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
Done, thanks for that. Martin 16:16, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
Thank you for your support - re the edit summaries - you are right! I will redouble my efforts! Trollderella 00:08, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
I would like to know what I deleted that you think I shouldn't have. I would be more than willing to explain why I did. unsigned edit by Grahamc03 ( talk · contribs) 22:46, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
Well I know for a fact that Krayzie Bone is heterosexual, but if you would like, I'll put the rest back. unsigned edit by Grahamc03 ( talk · contribs) 22:52, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
I will do so from now on, sorry about the inconvenience. Grahamc03 23:05, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
I noticed you always post the use of edit summaries percentage for candadiates at RfA, is there a way I can get that checked for myself (just for reference)? Do you have an automated way of doing that? If you do, you should host it for public use like kate's tool, it would be a great feature. - Greg Asche (talk) 03:02, 14 October 2005 (UTC)-- Durin 14:56, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
I'm worried that your compliment may have been premature. There are some pretty serious opinions in the oppose section on my RfA, and one of the people who opposed my nomination was a bureaucrat. This may mean that even though the vote tally on my RfA is 34/4/0, my nomination will still be rejected, and my nomination's deadline has now passed. Denelson 83 18:58, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
Hi Durin, rumour has it that you are the guru when it comes to compiling statistics and such; would you would be willing to take a look at the recent conversation at Talk:George_W._Bush#Protection_debate_again? It would be interesting to visually chart out the editing trends of this particular article, what the average time is between vandalism and vandalism revert, etcetera. Hall Monitor 22:08, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
As you suggested earlier, I found and uploaded an image for the Combat Information Center, from history.navy.mil. I also found one related for Navy Tactical Data System. You may like to check if everything is correct, as I am rather new to image handling. -- Shaddack 14:58, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
Sorry, you've totally lost me, his first edit was on 11-06-2005 wasn't it? Martin 16:43, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for the early congratulations. Had I not made the dumb mistake, maybe the % of support would have been even higher. ;-). I appreciate the time that you have spent on my RfA and I promise to serve the cabal community to the best of my abilities. Both grandparents are now in the hospital, such a mess! But one will be going home tomorrow and the other made it off the ventilator this weekend--so much progress! Thanks for asking :-) >:
Roby Wayne
Talk •
Hist •
E@
21:08, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
Durin: Thanks for your note on my talk; I hadn't realized it was that far gone. I'm certainly open to mentoring Nick (and anyone else, for that matter) if they desire it. As long as Nick is agreeable, I think we can make a lot of progress. Thanks for the support! ;-) -- Essjay · Talk 18:24, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
Durin why is it that my votes doesen't count. I read that all are invited to vote. Everyone has found an exuseless exception for me, so i have tried numerous ways to apply my vote. I should be able to vote!-- Blueballs 20:33, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
Mr. Redwolf24blanked my page. There is nothing in my page. I'm trying to be civil here and start something that I can occupy myself with. Why destroy it? Why is he allowed to do that? I haven't vandalized and yet everybody's out to get me?-- Blueballs 23:23, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
You must have not seen User:Redwolf24/Sandbox, view that if you think she'll fail her RfA. Plus she's always there to help in IRC, and do you know how NicholasTurnbull passed? Ah, IRC. And her edits have gone down I believe due to working on her German and Japanese. R e dwolf24 ( talk— How's my driving?) 22:39, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for your encouraging message on my talk page regarding a possible admin nomination. Let me reply to your questions.
Cheers. -- Edcolins 10:46, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
Durin, I appreciate the effort you are making in creating the edit use graphs in order to give the community another perspective and information source when considering RfA candidates. However, I am a little concerned about it, because I am of the opinion that as much as possible, each RfA candidate should be evaluated on as similar a base of information as possible. For example, when I am considering a candidate, I take into consideration their time on the project and number of edits, then I visit their user page and talk page to get a sense of their temperament and interaction with others. I also have available their edit history to examine if I desire. However, some candidates are being given the edit chart that you create, and some are not. My concern is not so much whether this is a help or a hindrance to those candidates, but more than it simply provides a different evaluation tool for some than for others. I appreciate that you are attempting to consistently provide the edit charts for users with less than 2,000 edits, but in my opinion, I think it would be more fair for all RfA candidates to have such charts, rather than none. I understand that creating the charts is a time consuming process, and therefore I volunteer to assist you with creating them, if you would care to help me learn how to do it. I propose that the charts be created for every RfA nomination. Again, I appreciate the effort you are making in RfA overall, and the thoughtful and well considered comments that you have. I appreciate the time and consideration you gave to my own RfA. Best regards, Ëvilphoenix Burn! 17:35, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
Durin, thanks for your constructive comments on my RFA. If you ever need anything, don't hesitate to ask. See you around. — thames 18:34, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
...About what I put
here.
Molotov
(talk)
20:50, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
I was trying to be cool like you and do a graph for my own edits (just to see for myself), and was going along following your steps just fine until this paragraph (I've ellipsed it here for length purposes):
Could you please explain this a little further if you get the chance. I don't really understand what you mean by the bolded part. Subsequent values? What if they skip a day editing? Is there an easier way to propogate a function that changes throughout a column than maually going in to the cell and changing the cell number (F2+1 would need changed to F3+1 then F4+1 right?)? I'll be away for a couple of days, and I know you're busy, so no rush. Plus I know I sound retarded and I am not your child so you shouldn't have to hold my hand, but any help would be appreciated. Thanks. -- Lord Vold e mort (Dark Mark) 21:58, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
Yes that would be the life
Prodego talk 22:21, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
Hello Durin, just a friendly remember. At blueballs' talk page you say Greenmonkey is 'banned' indefinitely. The correct term would be block. To summarize, ban is per human, block is per account. My name is Matt Binder. Matt Binder can be banned indefinitely, and if he is, then no account owned by him is allowed to exist at wikipedia in any incarnation, even if I write 8 policies everyone loves, and every contribution by me is to be rolled back. But if I'm blocked indefinitely for blanking user pages, I can come back as Bluewolf24 and go straight. Compare WP:BLOCK to WP:BAN, and try not to mix up the terms. Only about 20 people are banned, most can be found at WP:BU and others from arbcom cases. Bans are reserved for those who piss off a) Jimbo b) the board of trustees (hasn't happened yet) c) the arbcom or d) the entire community, provided the community doesn't think the person has much chance of redemption. I.e. Mr. Treason, WoW...
The point I'm trying to make is never say ban, unless they were specifically banned.
Cheers Durin :) R e dwolf24 ( talk) 22:56, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
Regarding the RFAs. Well, I had removed the RFAs from the page, but wikipedia chose the most inopportune moment to go offline. I hadn't promoted any of the candidates, nor had I used the rfap/f tags. I kept trying for the next hour before finally giving up. I then emailed Taxman so that he could notify another bureaucrat about this since I would gain net access only 15 hrs later. I don't Taxman checked his mail though, but Pakaran noticed that the users weren't promoted and clarified this from me via email. =Nichalp «Talk»= 10:28, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for the nomination. Just not sure whether I had to change the "current time + 7 days". The guidelines are a bit confusing on this. Please review this. Cheers. -- Edcolins 12:17, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
Hi Durin, Redwolf24 pointed me to his talk page where you talked about me as a possible admin. Just wanted to let you know that I'm glad you see me that way! And yes, one day I'll be glad to take that mop and use it. However, I'd rather wait till my first three months are over, to avoid oppose votes for just the amount of time that I'm here. However, if you see anything in my work that I can improve on, let me know! -- JoanneB 23:54, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
Ha! I can't help but laugh at this:
Age. If I know the age to be less than 25, I will not nominate. Judge me harshly on that point if you will, but the older a person is the less likely they are to handle unusual, stressful situations in a negative way. There are plenty of people who can and will nominate people regardless of age, so this stance on my part does not prevent anyone from becoming an admin.
Why's it funny? The guy who nominated you is 15. Though I'm sure you could have had someone older nominate you. Ah well, it's fine. Keep on keeping on :) R e dwolf24 ( talk) 01:43, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
Despite my personal opinion of editcountitis, I like the graph... thankies. :) Bushytails 21:19, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
Where did I revert the article 4 times in 24 hours? I would like to see that. Show this to me. -- Anittas 16:39, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
Per your request: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Moldovan_language#My_source_on_Grigore_Ureche_is_refused
-- Anittas 23:52, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
Another editor making violations of Wikipedia policies and guidelines does not give you leave to do the same. If you act in opposition to Wikipedia policy, you should in no way be surprised if the outcome is action against you. I have tried, and tried, and tried to work with you to contain your emotions on various topics. It is apparently beyond me to aid you in directing your efforts in less emotion driven ways. That is why I have not continued my discussion from some time ago with you; not out of disrespect for you, but out of frustration at my own inability to coach you. I wish you the best, -- Durin 18:08, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
Ive finally gotten a chance to look at various comments about the process, and chimed in a little on some of them. - St| eve 18:57, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
I figured the WP:NPA thing was implied by the "hit list" at the bottom there more clearly than the gun, but the gun was unsettling. I was going to block him at first, but I also blocked one of the people on the hitlist, so I figured I might be tainted in blocking him as well. That userbox can't stay up though. Karmafist 19:11, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
Yeeeah, I would have gotten to it eventually. Something came up right as I was delisting it, and I just now was going back. Thanks for the heads up though. Good looking out. See ya around. -- Lord Vold e mort (Dark Mark) 19:20, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
Hey - I'd appreciate it if you'd do for me like you've done for others and tell me what percentage of the time I use edit summaries. Is there a tool you use for doing this, or do you do it manually? Thank in advance. -- Randy 20:28, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for the heads-up. Must be getting lazy lately. You reminded me of a question I had a while ago and then promptly forgot about, though. If I make an edit to a section, and the summary is autofilled with the section name, and I don't add anything to what's there: is that considered an edit with or without an edit summary? — mendel ☎ 20:34, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
Thanks, that is also an interesting train of thought, do you believe that stopping anonymous editing will relieve some of these problems? I believe that, as you say, Wiki is more a social experiment than an encyclopedia, and that stopping anonymous editing will go a long way to fixing this by 1) Increasing our credibility and thus encouraging better editors to get involved 2) Much much less time would be wasted at AFD, Copyvios etc. 3) Bad faith editing and generally bad editing will be drastically reduced. Martin 22:57, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
Please don't respond to posts on TINMC with a lecture for the requesting editor on the three revert rule or civility. People who are looking for mediation quite often merely need someone to listen to their problem and make constructive suggestions on how to fix it. Telling them how they're doing everything wrong instead just ticks them off even more.
I referred this editor to the MedCom for assistance after he IMed me for help (as an Arbitrator, I can't really mediate disputes) and he was referred from there to MedCab. I got an IM today complaining about how the MedCab is trying to get him blocked now, and I see that's because of your comments on his talk page. Frankly, I'm rather appalled. Kelly Martin ( talk) 01:48, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
Hi Durin,
Thanks for your message.
However, I feel I should let you know a few things about this conflict:
1) It is due to one user's insistance on using a source that is over 400 years old and does not accurately describe the current situation. When it began, it was also due to the insistance of the same user that the page include some very POV phrases such as "Romania liberated Bessarabia" (previously "Romania retook Bessarabia"). 2) This same user ( Anittas) has shown some very poor behaviour on WP in the past. As evidence of this, you can check his user talkpage, where there are dozens of messages from people who have been irritated or harassed by him, as well as more than a handful of messages from people which kindly and politely urge him to disengage from specific conflicts to which he replies with obscentities, personal attacks, or general rudeness (for example "Go away. Now."). 3) This user had no other users supporting them. He left a message on talkpages of "fellow Romanians", expecting them to come and help him revert, but none of them did because even they saw how ridiculous his revisions were. 4) Aforementioned user was blocked promptly for violation of the 3RR on that page 5) The last revision on that page occurred 2 days ago, which can *usually* be taken as an indication that the conflict has ended.
Cheers Node 04:33, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
All above is a lie and I can prove it. Anyone can. I never wrote the following sentence:
"Romania liberated Bessarabia"
Romania did not liberate Bessarabia. Bessarabia voted in a referendum to reunite with Romania, but in either case, I didn't write any of that stuff. This can be verified by checking the edit history. The only thing that I added to that article was the fragment about Ureche. And I asked only Bogdan to revert the article, and he is away. The rest of what Node said is off-topic. We're talking about the legitimate of a source, not about my own behaviour.
You don't see me telling people that all Romanians are disgraced when they read your posts, Node, and that you lied to the members of the Moldovan Wiki. Am I exagerating? See for yourself:
http://mo.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Ronline/Alegeri_pentru_administratori
There you have it. Nothing can be hidden from the public. All that mess; all that chaos, was created by Node. But, this should not be held against him - not in this case - because all of that, is irrelevant to what we're talking about here; and I wouldn't be such an idiot as to trying to discredit Node for other conflicts that he might be having, even when they show that he is Anti-Romanian. -- Anittas 05:03, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
Thank you for your message on my talk page. I am afraid I am not able to answer to your question. I could answer to questions regarding European patent law and, to a limited extent, regarding United States patent law, but not regarding United States copyright law. I suggest you contact User:Mmmbeer who is apparently registered U.S. patent attorney, or User:Postdlf, a U.S. lawyer (who wrote articles on U.S. Supreme Court decisions relating to copyright, e.g. Burrow-Giles Lithographic Co. v. Sarony and more). I hope this helps. -- Edcolins 10:14, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
Hey, sorry Durin, it was a bit late at night and I wasn't thinking straight. Thanks for taking care of it. Christopher Parham (talk) 15:12, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
I've withdrawn per yours and others advice. I really appreciate the kind words. peace, Tedernst 16:37, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
Dear Durin: I am the current team leader of the Mediation Cabal, and I would like to discuss with you the recent comments you made on that page to Anittas, and your subsequent reply to Kelly Martin's post on your talk page. I would like to endorse what Kelly said in her message to you - I would be most grateful if you would please refrain from dissuading users from seeking mediation from the Mediation Cabal by instructing the users they should not be seeking mediation; no matter how bad you may feel Anittas' actions have been, this user is entitled to a mediation if they wish to request one, and as a consequence of your message this user got the idea that a Mediation Cabal had issued your statement, which was not the case. The purpose of mediation is to reconcile differences, and come to common agreement, through a civilised and moderated process; it is clear that ad-hoc discussion on the talk page is leading to nothing but mud-slinging and ad hominem response, and so in my view mediation may have some value in this matter. Especially since the user had been referred to us by an arbitrator, it makes your rather officious approach to trying to prevent the user entering mediation even less conscienable, in my view. If you do have any further questions or concerns relating to this case, please contact me rather than attempting to control the mediation process yourself. Best regards, -- NicholasTurnbull | (talk) (e-mail) (cabal) 19:29, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
Did you ask the permission of all those editors before you put their RfA's on the page? Some of them might get offended, so I think we'd better be safe than sorry. Good work btw! Borisblue 17:24, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
Thank you again for the trust you have placed in me in nominating me as an admin. I really appreciate the nomination and now that the vote is over I will try to make a solid admin (but first I am going to explore the policies surrounding the admin tasks). I'll let you know if I have admin-specific interrogations. -- Edcolins 19:29, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
Ah, I can explain! In IRC, on freenode, there's a channel called #wikipedia-en-vandalism where Cool Cat has an anti-vandalism bot (like CDVF but less time consuming) report stuff. I saw a new user called Durin.. The bot gives out the URL to block, but on pretty much every client if a period/fullstop (.) ends a URL they make it NOT part of a url (cause people will say 'go to www.yahoo.com.' and our wiki is amazing enough to use .'s at the end of URL's...) so I went to block the second Durin and I saw I blocked you. Essjay and Curps blocked the real impostor (!) and the next name it made was something like FUCK CURPS ESSJAY AND REDWOLF24, but I never blocked Durin. but it said I blocked Durin (i.e. you) so I feel that the troll creating names was probably in the IRC room, so we have a moonshining troll or two inside our community, but now I'm rambling.
Ah, and as for the teenage-outsmart-thing; here's my rationale:
If we're learning about every trivial battle of the Civil War, chances are someone who just learned it will know it better than someone who learned it when they were 14. You know, like cramming for a test. The same guy will probably outsmart the teen at more important manners, but the teen will have some crammed information ;-)
R e dwolf24 ( talk) 06:00, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
Well, I did it because most of the discussions were afterthoughts rather than an all out discussion. =Why can't self nominate myself?=; =Relisting SV RFA=. I think =Guide to RfA= was the one you were specifically referring to. I have no problems if someone brings the topic back to focus. Is it this one that you were referring to? =Nichalp «Talk»= 06:14, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
Looks like we have another "example" brewing: Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Tony1. Can you talk him against quitting WP when it closes? I tried, but he took what I said very badly. Oh, and hurry up on the guide! Borisblue 14:36, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
Hi Duran
I was really pleased to receive your two messages, and kind of flattered that you'd write so much to me. Yeah, I appreciate fully what you say about the function and status of admins. In fact, I never really cared for admin duties - the thought of blocking people, deleting contentious pages, and patrolling for vandalism was and still is decidedly unappealling to me. So it's all a terrible shame that I feel that there's so much poison out there (and in my own mind) that I will never step foot on WP again after I leave.
I understand and agree with your point about the importance of an open process, but I think it should be moderated and constrained by fairly tight guidelines for all participants. I still think the vote changing thing is a very negative aspect; and yes, restricting the voting to the bureacrats who run the system would probably result in a better tone on the page. I don't think I can bear to look at the links you included - I'm just too depressed at the moment.
I wish you all the best in your attemtps to improve the process; I'm really pleased that it's happening, and that someone like you has major input into it. You may use my very own warzone as an example, and retain a copy of my user page for use in the improvement process. However, this brings me to another issue: the difficulty of finding someone to delete my page and image after I leave. I'd be further distressed if it is just left there; my privacy has suddenly become more important. Can you advise?
Thanks so much for your support. I need it.
Sincerely
Tony (tony1 at iinet dot net dot au)
Tony 01:09, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
Hey Durin, I was curious why you used rollback instead of putting in an edit summary regarding removing the Rfa put up by Wiki Brah. I thought you of all people would have done that considering how it could be misunderstood without realizing the acceptance hadn't happened yet. Karmafist 04:06, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
Yep. I've been here for 11 years. Before that I was in Holman for 20 years which is on the other side of Victoria Island. I came to the arctic in 1974. By the way the link in User:Durin/Admin nominee charts to your example does not work anymore. CambridgeBayWeather 18:06, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
Hey there, Durin, ol' buddy, ol' pal o'mine, how am I doing on those edit summaries? BD2412 T 01:27, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
I know it's so boring, doing the same thing over and over again for people but I feel I missed out on my RfAs. Anyway, I'll be, like, your bestest best friend for all of eternity if you'd take a peek at my edit summary usage. Well, perhaps not but you could have your name in my "Wikipedians for whom my high regard is held" list? Is that a good deal? Well, no but it's the best I can do :). (you see, I could do it myself if you sent me your excel file... lol) -- Cel e stianpower háblame 13:35, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
Hi Durin, I have been following your efforts on the RfA page in persuading other users to reduce their editcountitis and look at other aspects of contributions as well. I was just wondering abt my usage of edit summaries. I reckon that it wd be high, but how much I do not know. From your talkpage, I tried to gather how to determine the usage of edit summaries but I must confess that I haven't understood it. If it is not too much trouble, could you pl. let me know my usage of edit summaries. It is not very urgent, pl. do it at your pace and pl. let me know of it on my talkpage (My internet connection has been weird for the last 2 weeks and I'm hving probs in jumping back & forth from my watchlist). Regards, -- Gurubrahma 06:48, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
The desire for admins to appropriately use edit summaries is in no respect a violation of WP:POINT. Please see User:Durin/Admin_criteria_comments#Edit_summaries. One of the typical prime duties of administrators is fighting vandalism. Providing edit summaries is one way in which people can make the job of RC patrollers looking for vandalism easier. It is very appropriate to request admins, who are likely to be fighting vandalism, to aide in fighting vandalism. -- Durin 21:56, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
I understand your reasons for opposing and Im learned that removing red links are sometimes a no-no and spelling counts more than I thought which going to help me in the future. I have a quiestion to ask What is my average edits a day I want to find that out. Thanks -- JAranda | watz sup 21:18, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
Edit summaries, as you know, are not mandatory. That is why they are not enforced by the software, which also generates auto-summaries based on section titles to provide a minimum amount of information if the user does not. The primary purpose of edit summaries is not, nor has it ever been, to aid in fighting vandalism. Their primary purpose is to enrich the history of a page and the Recent changes view, to give users a better idea what content of a page has changed and whether it is relevant to them.
The number of changes on Wikipedia has become so high that checking them all is almost impossible without new, collaborative software tools which we do not have yet. But if you want to decide which changes not to check, "those without summaries" would be a bad criterion. That's because the percentage of good users who do not use them, at least occasionally, for good edits is very high, and the percentage of bad users who are more than drive-by vandals and are willing to lie in a summary is also, presumably, relatively high. As for the drive-by vandals, checking for anonymous users and those with no user pages is a far better strategy, as it eliminates almost all edits by trusted, regular users.
Te best and perhaps only reason not to check an edit without a summary is that the user who made the edit is trusted. This can be because they made thousands of edits and have shown that they are interested in respecting the rules of Wikipedia, and improving its content. Incidentally, almost every admin falls into that category. Thus, if you really are interested in making life easier for vandal fighters, you should evaluate whether the person is trustworthy. Vandal-fighters can then simply add the names of all admins from the list of admins to their user whitelist in tools such as CryptoDerk's vandal fighter.
Certainly, I can see the value in the argument that someone who never or almost never uses edit summaries might not be considered trustworthy, as they have not shown due diligence and do not respect the standards of Wikipedia. But we're talking about 50% vs. 60% vs 70%, at which point we are talking about varying preferences within the community.
Your argument that using summaries consistently "raises the bar" for vandals makes no sense in any case. First of all, you will not be successful in getting every regular user to use summaries consistently, partially because you will not reach everyone, and partially because some people (including myself) will simply disagree with you on their usefulness. Secondly, if vandals did start adopting fake summaries as a technique to avoid detection, then the effective situation for the vandal fighter is no better than it is today: they still have to check edits with summaries. And if they actually take the easy route and do not, such vandalism is likely to slip through, and the situation worsens.
My concern is therefore that you're merely using RFA as a litmus test to enforce your own personal preferences. You are voting against users who have done their best to comply with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines, who have done excellent work on articles, who are genuinely interested in fighting vandals, who are giving large amounts of their free time to the project -- and instead of happily handing them a mop to clean up with, you pedantically complain about the percentage of edits with summaries.
This is not what RFA is for. It is for evaluating whether a person can be trusted to respect the five pillars of Wikipedia. It is also, as has been said many times, "no big deal". Angela had less than 100 edits when she applied for adminship (which was granted), and is now on the Board of Trustees of the Wikimedia Foundation. The original idea of adminship was, therefore, always that it is handed out liberally to people who can be trusted, and this has worked well in building a strong, diverse community. Wikis live from the principle of devolving power. "Adminship" is a flag many of us would happily grant to everyone, if only we could know in advance that they're not going to go on a deletion or blocking spree. To give us this knowledge, we have the RFA process.
It was never intended to be an initiation rite or a litmus test. The fact that any user is allowed to comment on adminship nominations, and that we strive for consensus, carries with it great responsibility for the individual users commenting. I'm sorry if this is harsh, but I feel you are abusing this privilege. I am beginning to think that it would be best to modify the rules so that only objections that directly relate to the Five Pillars are taken into account.
Using your logic, others will try to enforce their personal standards. "I vote against this person because he opposes family filters on Wikipedia." "I vote against this person because she does not remove personal attacks from comments." "I vote against this person because he uses a fancy signature instead of a plain one." Effectively, the consensus principle is undermined when individuals with strong personal preferences can hold a nomination hostage to get what they want.
None of these personal standards is a fundamental rule of Wikipedia, and the same is true for using edit summaries all the time. I therefore repeat my plea to you to refrain from using RFA as a litmus test for your personal preferences, especially as these appear to be based on fallacious logic.-- Eloquence * 21:52, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
Hello Cryptic, I came across your name recently and saw that you've been here a while but are not an admin. I then began reviewing your contributions to Wikipedia against my rather strict nomination standards and I'm pleased to tell you that you passed. In fact, I can't believe you haven't been nominated already. You've done a very large amount of work at WP:AFD (I count nearly 1200 edits in this area alone), and have been active in a lot of other admin appropriate areas, includinf WP:MD, WP:RFD, WP:CFD, WP:TFD and more. Plus, you've been active in discussions on criteria for speedy deletion and also on featured article candidates. I especially liked a comment you made about the never ending schools keep/delete debate ( [8]). I've reviewed about 100 of your comments made on user talk pages and have found you very level headed and cool under stress. Plus, you're quite willing to make comments to other admins who make errors and are very polite in the process ( [9]). You already work in contentious areas, and as you said ( [10]), you don't get stressed easily; a great quality for an admin. I expect you would make a fantastic admin and would make great use of the tools. I'd like to nominate you, but before creating the nomination page for you I wanted to find out if you're be interested in being an admin and if you would like me to nominate you? -- Durin 21:29, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
I am just curious how you count the use of edit summaries. I see a lot of people asking for how they are doing. Could this be something that is made available to everyone or added onto Kate's tool perhaps? Oh, by the way, how am I doing in that department. :) Thanks. -- Holderca1 03:15, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
Durin, could you source a graph on the number of support vs oppose votes for candidates over the past two months? Thanks =Nichalp «Talk»= 12:56, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
Durin, I hate bothering you for such minutiae, and the whole issue might be moot by now anyway, but can you please check Kelly Martin's edit summary usage percentage for edits not involving ArbCom work? The simplest measure would probably be to look at her last 500 or 1000 edits prior to her appointment to ArbCom. Thank you. Owen× ☎ 04:12, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
Hi Durin. I have seen your work in RfA and really appreciate it. I was hoping that you'd be willing to confirm for me that my use of edit summaries is currently kind of sucky, but it would be nice to have a numerical way to evaluate just how sucky, so that I can get better. No rush; I read above that you can't do it right away. I really appreciate it.
Also, I was hoping to get a sort of general evaluation from you on my progress here at Wikipedia. I would like to be an admin someday, but will be the first to admit that I know I'm not ready, and won't be for quite some time. (I have an edit count of something like 2500, but in my case it is certainly not representative. I have created articles, and then again a lot of those edits were making minor changes, editing my own user page, and correcting my own typos because I have a quick trigger finger on my mouse.) My hope, though, was to try to prepare myself for adminship by next summer, when I won't be at school any more and can properly use the tools that would hopefully be given to me. Any tips you can give me in this direction would be most useful. Thanks. Jacqui ★ 19:32, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
First, Jacqui :) (I can do your request Hall Monitor, but it's not automated...I'll need a little bit). Jacqui; your use of edit summaries is 67% overall after 2,556 edits. It's 80.2% in the last 500 edits. You're definitely improving. As for what to do to prepare yourself for adminship;
You might want to see User:Durin/My_guidelines_for_admin_nomination#My_admin_nomination_standards. Those are difficult standards. But, if you pass them, there's a (so far) very good chance you'll pass RfA with flying colors. I might nominate you myself. If you have any more questions, I'd be happy to answer. -- Durin 19:46, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
Hall Monitor; chart's done. You can view it at Image:HallMonitorEditSummaryUsage.png. When you're done with the chart, you can feel free to delete it. I won't be attributing it anywhere else. I'm amazed at how prolific you've been. >10,000 edits since May? Wow! -- Durin 20:04, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
You have been charged in a request for comment with attempting to prevent an editor from attempting to seek the assistance of a mediator to resolve a dispute, and with becoming hostile and belligerent when politely asked to refrain from doing so in the future. You may wish to respond. Kelly Martin ( talk) 13:28, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for cleaning up {{Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/MC MasterChef}} and {{Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Shaddack}}. I couldn't quite finish the formalities then. PS> Thanks for the graphs, but I wasn't looking for that particular info. I'll let you know abt it later. Regards, =Nichalp «Talk»= 18:48, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
Hello, I'd like to discuss your recent actions re: wikipedia dispute resolution with you in real time.
I'm often present on irc.freenode.net , #wikipedia (as kim_bruning or kim_register). Or you might want to use wikipedia email to send me an MSN/AIM/ICQ/etc or Skype username/address so I can contact you more privately.
Thanks for your time, and hope to speak with you soon.
-- Kim Bruning 19:00, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
Hi,
Recent events remind me how valuable the work you do on RfA candidate scrutiny is. This community service should not go unrecognized.
Please don't let disgruntled parties dissuade you from your often thankless and tiring examination work. Best wishes, Xoloz 19:19, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
Will do. :) I, of course, never have any intention of running for anything, partly because I too am saddened by some editors in positions of power who, in my view, have very poor judgment. You are a bright spot in combatting the insensible around here. :) Xoloz 20:41, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
Don't leave?
Prodego talk 21:34, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
Take a wikibreak, and when you are ready, come back that's the best thing to do.
Prodego talk 23:07, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
You seem to be a fairly good editor, so losing you might not be so good. I'd really really like to talk with you over IRC or IM now, especially since you're planning on leaving and it wouldn't hurt to do so anyway, by whatever standard you hold.
But even if you don't, well, you may or may not have made a mistake or two recently (We all do! I've made much bigger howlers than you've ever been accused of! :-P ) , but it looks like the overall quality of your work is good. :-)
sincerely, Kim Bruning 21:41, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
I hope you aren't doing this just to bring out a flood of support... You should realize that such support will come, as we even give it to people who don't really deserve it if they pout loudly enough. In your case you do deserve support, ... it is only because you've been so unwilling to accept criticism that your detractors have become as loud as they have. I hope you realize there are other options and solution to these problems and continue editing. In the meantime, I'll take requests to produce reports for people like you produced... and I'll probably automate a few of the simpler ones, anyone who wants them please just ping me. -- Gmaxwell 21:43, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
Please, please reconsider. Many of us (I dare say, most) know this RfC is, at best, highly suspect; at worst, almost riduculous. You are a quality editor and administrator, and we need you. Xoloz 21:44, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
PS: Gmaxwell; whether it's productive or not isn't the point. The point is I've been a disruption here. You, Eloquence, NicholasTurnbull, Kelly, and Tony have all agreed with that (and there's probably more). I am not going to be a disruption here. It's not what I wanted, and it's not what I will do. Since as I said, I've done my best and my best is a disruption here, I'm leaving. Think of it this way; if the best I could do was drive a race car around a track at half the speed of the leaders, I would be disruptive. The right move is to leave. I lack the skills necessary to be a good Wikipedian. It's time to leave.
Goodbye, a thousand times, goodbye. -- Durin 21:49, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
To be very frank Durin, the admins so accusing you are known to be often like-minded, and are held by at least some to be of questionable judgment, including me. They represent themselves only. If you return, and allow the RfC to continue, the community at large is sure to have a more conciliatory view. Xoloz 21:55, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
Durin, if you were "a disruption here", which I do not grant, but if you were, it was a disruption for the betterment of the project. Take a break if you must, but please come back when you can. Jonathunder 21:58, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
Rule #1, my friend: Don't sweat the internet. Nothing of consequence will come from this RfC, so let it roll off of you like water, and continue to make your valuable (and valued) contributions. BD2412 T 22:46, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
There is no compelling reason for me to return. The current environment in which I have been placed is to do as Kelly Martin says I must do, or leave Wikipedia [12]. There are no options. I would have been willing to consider some compromise regarding some of her demands, but not all. Since there is no wiggle room, I must leave Wikipedia. I find it absolutely absurd that I have been so heavily taken to task for my actions and barely a peep has been raised in protest of Kelly's actions. Indeed, there is more than ample evidence to file an RfC against Kelly. Kelly has also violated my rights on the RfC by forcing my question that I had asked of her off of the RfC main page and on to the talk page. I can just imagine the protest she'd be making if I took to doing the same to her questions (which are heavily polarizing). If I try to move the questions back to the RfC rather than the discussion page, Kelly will accuse me of getting into a revert war. There's no winning this; I've lost any attempt at reasonable conclusion to the RfC. When I asked Kelly to file the RfC I was expecting her to act in a cool, rational manner. Instead I have been the subject of a verbal onslaught by her. In the filing of the RfC she was not neutral, and she has done a marvelous job of controlling the RfC from the get go. She supposedly apologizes for her actions on the RfC but then does not seek to change them an offense that some other editors find me guilty of yet she is not taken to task. Why? Because she's a darling of Wikipedia. She was hand selected by none other than Jimbo Wales to serve on ArbCom. What am I supposed to do in the face of that? I certainly can't file the RfC. If I do, it will be viewed as a bad faith attack against her. So my hands are tied. I don't think anyone else can either; she disdains the RfC process and insulted a person who brought one with her as party. Yet, that's ok...that's perfectly fine. Gosh no we can't find fault with Kelly!
Now, my RfC has become a roast-Durin event with certifiers bringing all manner of unrelated attacks against me and insisting that I must bend or break. Well crap what the hell do you think Kelly is doing? She has offered no compromise and insists that I must leave if I don't agree to her demands.
You know what would bring honesty back to this process? An RfC filed against her. There is blatant, ample evidence to do so. She has violated Wikipedia policy time and time again. She has made a habit of verbally assaulting people. She treats Wikipedia policies as being something she can use to bludgeon others but heaven forbid she should be held to task for making violations of her own. But, she won't be party to such an RfC, so it can't proceed. It will go stale, ignored, dropped, and Kelly will go on acting as she has done before. So, the very process that seeks to resolve this dispute is utterly broken. She won't yield, she won't acknowledge RfCs brought against her, and I must leave Wikipedia or utterly capitulate to her demands. And people are surprised I'm leaving? Good grief. How much ridiculous crap does a person have to put up with before having a valid reason to leave?
Throughout my tenure here I made every attempt to remain civil, polite, and within the bounds of Wikipedia. Today, I became utterly fed up with the processes by which a person who is obviously acting out of so much blatant hatred is supported, condoned, and treated as royalty. I'm sick of it, and against my better judgement in speaking such I find ample reason to consider Kelly a rogue admin and ArbCom member who is not accountable to policy or any reasonable process by which compromise can be reached. I've had it with her. I refuse to deal with her in any respect because of her categorical inability to review herself in anything but a sterling light. She can do no wrong.
For God's sake, I spent two hours developing a reasonable basis on which to oppose Kelly's RfB. I raised a number of very legitimate points. Some people ended up agreeing with the points that I raised. Some of the points I raised would, by themselves, have been enough to vote against an RfA much less an RfB which is held to a higher standard. Yet, I am utterly wrong for raising these points. No, that's just not allowed. I can't post my well founded vote about Kelly because she's beyond review; everyone must like her or else! Prior to my vote there were 8 votes in opposition. Kelly would have had to have received 72 votes in support to clear those votes much less the later oppose votes that had nothing to do with my vote. Yet, she directly...absolutely directly...blames me for her RfB failure. With her obvious, blatant full on verbal onslaught on the RfC how can anyone view that RfC as anything but a retribution against me for voting oppose? Furthermore, if my actions with regards to the original incident were some damn awful, why didn't Kelly file an RfC THEN? She waited nearly two weeks because she was mad that I voted oppose on her RfB. If there were any real basis for her complaint against me on the RfC other than her accusations about her RfB, then it should have been raised two weeks ago...not now.
I am sick of this process. It is blatantly self serving to Kelly, corrupt in initiation and totally without candor. I find no reason to submit myself to such a blatantly false process. Since the appeal process from this goes directly through her and her "trust peers" (as she put it) I have no hope of winning this debate. As I noted previously, even if I "win" I will lose as Kelly will continue to cast aspersions against me as a problem admin.
I don't have to put up with this. Wikipedia has no...zero...legal grounds on which to force me to be party to such ridiculously corrupted affairs.
For the record; I never told Anittas NOT to talk to Mediation Cabal (heaven forbid I should ever set foot in there all-precious territory again). I told Anittas to first attempt to resolve the dispute on the talk page. That had not been done to my knowledge. Others are now inferring it had been done; if so I was not aware of it and in that respect I was in error. Anittas did bring it to the talk page after I requested he do so, and there was some debate that followed. I did not attempt to interfere with MedCab. In fact, I tried to help. Instead, I had the door slammed in my face for violating the hallowed ground of MedCab. I was following policy in advising Anittas of what to do next. For that, I am roundly criticized. Therefore the lesson is that MedCab is more important than policy, and policy can go to hell. Don't do what policy tells you...do what MedCab tells you, and don't you DARE respond to anyone who makes a request at MedCab unless you're part of there little club. They will hunt you down and destroy you for it.
Why am I ranting on like this on my talk page? Because I can't do it on my RfC. The RfC is effectively closed to me. Kelly is controlling my RfC by removing my comments and questions. She has not been held to task for this; in fact nary of peep of complaint has been raised about it except by me. Further proof of the ridiculous non-peer regard she is held in. Yet, I am supposed to come to Wikipedia as true peer on her terms...which means she must be held in high regard, I must abjectly apologize to her for my many faults (apparently virtually all of my contributions), and swear to not do it again.
I came here to Wikipedia with the best of intentions. I have tried my best to do everything I could to improve it. I had dreams of one day being able to influence various processes into productive directions. That influence now is lost. I am now forever marked as a problem admin by a person who is above any restraint, who can not be taken to task for her many faults, who disdains the use of the RfC process against her yet uses it as a bludgeoning tool against me. What impact I had hoped to make is therefore irrecoverably destroyed. She has destroyed my name, my character, and every hope that I had of being a productive member her. Yet, she can't be taken to task for it lest anyone be labeled as slanderous and out to destroy her. For crying out loud, she blatantly violated Wikipedia policy by permanently banning an IP! But noooo...that's ok! That's fine! Kelly was right and just to do that and heaven forbid anyone should vote oppose to her RfB because of it! Noooo...it's because we don't LIKE her that we're voting oppose to her, not because we have any legitimate basis on which to vote oppose. No, that can't possibly be true. Kelly can do no wrong!
There is no way out. As stated, an RfC can not be brought against her. There is no way in which to reach any consensus that her actions have been improper. I can not move. I am trapped. I have no recourse but to either accept her demands or leave Wikipedia.
You know what's sick? The majority of ArbCom is appointed, not voted upon. Think about the effects of that. The community doesn't really have a say in the ultimate resolution of processes. If we dislike the manner in which an ArbCom member is going about their business, we can't say "well the community voted her in". There's no way in which we can seek any remediation if the ArbCom is at fault. There's no avenue of recourse. Why is there no process to vote in temporary holders of positions? It's not like we are wanting for candidates. Instead, we have an appointment process that is above the community of Wikipedia, external to it, and we have no impact on it. This process is out of control. Yet, to raise such issues marks us as being outsiders who should be pushed out of Wikipedia.
Kelly, I imagine you're dancing in glee at the outcome of this spat between you and I. You've managed to destroy a hard working Wikipedian who was doing nothing more than trying to help a user. You're blatant inability to assume good faith, your accusatory tones from the outset, set the stage for this. I was willing to attempt to achieve some sort of compromise on this but your control of the RfC and your inability to consider any compromise other than me capitulating or leaving Wikipedia makes that impossible. God help you Kelly. How you can view this RfC as anything other than a bad faith assault upon me in retribution for your failed RfB (which had NOTHING to do with me) is beyond me.
It is utterly depressing that good faith efforts on Wikipedia end up being so roundly criticized, destroyed, and used to besmirch the reputation of an individual who was doing nothing more than trying to help. God how I wish I hadn't voted on Kelly's RfB now. It would have failed anyway, and she would have had to face up to the reality that people just don't think she's ready to be a bureaucrat. Now, she's come up with the crackpot excuse that it's my fault her RfB failed and she refuses to consider her errors. What supreme arrogance.
Now you just watch. Kelly will come along and using policy as a bludgeon remove these comments off of my talk page or have one of her "trusted peers" (to whom she has told I am a problem admin) do it. She will leave me with no forum to voice my concerns; the RfC will have been effectively controlled and my talk page will have been effectively controlled. I'm already relegated to this poor forum for such. What's next, a ban Kelly? To what absurd lengths beyond which you have already gone will you go to destroy me, eh? Come on Kelly...block me; show us all how right and just you are.
Utterly disgusted, -- Durin 03:11, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
And now the people who are against me on the RfC are accusing me of libel. There goes another Wikipedia policy up in smoke. I believe Kelly Martin's real name is Kelly Martin. Thus, there would be grounds for a legal suit against me if Kelly were to file it. My real name of course isn't Durin, so I have no grounds for a libel case. If I didn't have ample reason before, with this new legal threat against me I can't continue here. If I raise any additional protest against her it would be potentially part of a case against me. I can't tolerate this threat against me and ultimately my family. If I had any choice before, I certainly have no choice but to leave now. -- Durin 03:20, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
I've emailed you. Please have a look at them. Thanks. Guettarda 03:34, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
Durin... Please don't leave. Don't let a few editors get you down. You have a lot of supporters here at Wikipedia, and this would be a much worse place without you here. You are an invaluable asset to WP. I urge you to reconsider. Perhaps take a few days off and come back. We all need a little time off and perhaps this is your time. If you decide not to come back, please know that a lot of people here appreciate you and your work, and you will be sorely missed. I'm not sure I can say much to console you, but at least I have tried. Thanks for everything. -- LV (Dark Mark) 16:06, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
Um, no, libel can not be criminal, and can not involve prison sentences. Trust me - I am a lawyer (an IP lawyer at that), and libel, slander, invasion of privacy, abuse of process, tortious interference, etc., are part of my bread and butter. Torts, all of them, nary a crime in the bunch. Don't fret about prison, it's not on the table. BD2412 T 05:24, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
With my zero knowledge laws governing libel and slander, I still see that any lawsuit potential is zero...I truly believe that Kelly Martin was simply throwing words out there and she even clearly stated that she did not mean to threaten you with any leagl action. I assume good faith and think that both of you are very valuable contributors here...it is my strong recommendation that you return to Wikipedia and resume your contributions at your convienence. Let me know if there is anything that I can do to help.-- MONGO 02:15, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
Even in a limitied capacity. Just hold your head high and you'll be fine. -- LV (Dark Mark) 15:32, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
As per a general consensus on Wikipedia talk:Requests for comment/Durin I have archived and locked the pag, should you want this deleted you can list it at Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion as per policy. Jtkiefer T | @ | C ----- 22:02, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
Well, if as you assert Kelly is not satisfied except if you leave, then let her be not satisfied. If no compromise is possible, then rather than destroying one another you two could leave each other be. It's a big wiki. Did you read the RFC and see that most of the reactions were in support of you? There is no pile-on to you. Ten people directly objected to Kelly's summary. Thirteen people claimed she took it too personally. Ten people said that both parties should tone down their comments a bit. Eighteen people said they hoped both would overcome the dispute and return to editing the 'pedia. There is no pile-on. There is no cabal. There is an unfortunate dispute and it's a fact of life that some people don't get along. And there are people that want you here. And there are people that want her here. And by far the most people want you both here, and that's certainly possible without running into one another. R adiant _>|< 23:44, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
I have reverted and reprotected the page on your RFC since it has been delisted and archived and therefore should not be editted anymore. You should still continue your discussions on the talk page though. Jtkiefer T | @ | C ----- 06:04, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
Now, before I start, I have not read the RfC against you. It would literally be a travesty to lose you on Wikipedia. Let's look at some things you're good at. RfA immediately springs to mind. Your nomination of User:Cryptic was incredibly well-crafted and obviously had a lot of time put into it. I was very impressed. Secondly, your edit summary/edit overview charts and statistics. They are always very useful and make people's lives as voters on RfA much easier: I'm certainly grateful.
Next we have your friendliness and sense of humour. Whenever asked a question, you are always polite and couteous in the response, even if it's another one of those darn stats requests!
Finally, your actual encyclopedaic contributions. They are always thorough, thought-through and have depth. As a result, you're comments have weight. You've got the experience and you deserve to use it. Please don't leave. We need many more people like you - so we don't want to lose this shining example of a Wikipedian. Please reconsider - as was said above, it's a big wiki. Plenty of room not to interact with eachother. :) Cheer up, eh? -- Cel e stianpower háblame 09:51, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
Welcome back, you seem rested. ;-) -- hydnjo talk 15:23, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
Sadly, I disagree with you on some of your points.
First, you say "My friendliness and sense of humour do not matter". That is not true. They matter a lot to the users who interact with you for the right reasons - to discuss articles or generally build community spirit. Improving the encyclopedia is exceedingly difficult without these qualities in users.
Then you say "My edits to Wikipedia, from the long view, do not matter". On one level, you're right. Eventually, your edits will be no more - overwritten with better information ...etc... But, if nobody makes good edits now, two things will happen. Most obviously, the encyclopedia won't grow. Secondly and most importantly in my opinion, the numbers of people using Wikipedia as an information source will stop increasing and possibly/probably/certainly decrease. They will go away due to misinformation, typos ...etc... This can't be good for anyone as we are trying to build the best encyclopedia in the world.
When you say "As a result of recent events, there will be a number of people whom I feel will vote oppose to any candidate I put forther just because I did the nominating." - this will not last forever. I, along with many, many others, will support because you did the nominating. You are easily, hands down the best nominator out there and you really have gained my respect (and I guess plenty of other peoples) because of this.
Also "being an admin places you in the line of fire of a number of people" - not to everyone. Granted, I've not been an admin for long but I've never had anything like this. I believe that cases like this (and yours) are in the minority.
I see that you're feelings over this are very deep. I really do hope that you or others find a way of resolving this. I hope you'll discover why you joined in the first place. And I hope that's soon. I am certainly not the only one who would miss you, should you leave. :) -- Cel e stianpower háblame 15:32, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
Welcome back, for a moment though I think we lost you.... =Nichalp «Talk»= 08:11, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
Hi, I noticed a graph on User:Redwolf24's user page and he told me to talk to you for a similar one on my userpage. :) Thanks. -- Cool Cat Talk 00:55, 14 November 2005 (UTC)
That was... interesting ... I hope you're still online :-) Kim Bruning 16:09, 14 November 2005 (UTC)
I did notice
this edit and despite our differences in the past, I truly side with you in this conflict. You have done nothing but behave in a very civil manner, and for some one to file an RfC on you is ludicrous. I have decided not to edit here much per se either, I see no point in it anymore.
Encyclopedist
M
!
19:52, 14 November 2005 (UTC)
Before you go, if you do, which I hope not, what is my current edit summary % usage...I have slight editcountitis :). Voice of All T| @| ESP 03:22, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
I hope this does not mean you have left again. Tis a shame. -- LV (Dark Mark) 17:01, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
Wow, maybe we should propose it, eh? Thanks again for the information. Karmafist 00:34, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
Sorry for the delay; I've done the graph for you. Your use of edit summaries is 28% overall. First 500 edits was 25%, last 500 was 39%. Your average edits per day is 49, and stable (not changed much since July or so). Your peak # of edits on a given day was 327 on April 1, 2005. You've had eight other days in excess of 200. You have contributed something on 85% of the days available since you started editing on February 4, 2005. I conclude; you're a nutcase and need psychological help for your addiction. More serious medical symptoms may set in with kidney failure due to not going to the bathroom when your body demands, acid reflux due to not eating, severe loss of weight due to same, severe repetitive stress symptoms most notably in the hands and wrists, and early onset of arthritis most likely in the wrists. I won't give you any more charts until the twitching stops. :) All the best, -- Durin 15:17, 18 November 2005 (UTC)
Greetings, Durin! Is there a way to merge my anonymous contributions into my existing edit contribution history? I've confirmed over two dozen anon edits that were mine by identifying articles I started, beginning with this cluster of edits, followed by these, another cluster, these, this, and this. Cheers! BD2412 T 04:29, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
Sorry if I caused offence with the comment on Jarth's RfA. No offence meant. The Land 16:01, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
No one is going to give in on this issue, so MfD may be the appropriate course of action. As long as you have the subpage, we can always direct people there, sort of like Zzyxz's RfA records page. I don't really know what to do, but I am getting tired of trying to defend this. -- LV (Dark Mark) 18:46, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
Hi Durin. I am contacting you regarding a recently filed RFC, Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Duncharris. I opened this channel of discussion as a means to resolve serious issues of incivility which were unresolvable through direct discussion with the subject of the RFC. As an outside third party, would you please review this discussion and share your perspective at your convenience? Thank you, Silensor 19:05, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
Hi, Durin. I understand You tagged this image for deletion because their is no source. It might be possible to remove the image and redirect users to the other image since this one is a duplicate. I am letting You know that You can find this image on another wikipedia page: Rail switch EddieSegoura 13:15, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
Hey - I'd like updated edit summary statistics and an edit statistic graph like you've done for others - Thanks! -- Randy 01:18, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
Hi Durin, I had corresponded with you sometime last month about my usage of edit summaries. I'd like you to consider me against your nomination standards for RfA and let me know if I pass muster. If you believe that I am good enough to be nominated by you, please look at User:Gurubrahma/Archive01, where, as a rough draft, I had answered the questions that are asked on a RfA. It'd be great if you can nominate me, as a nomination by you implies due diligence from you, which means a lot. I'd understand if you cannot nominate me, so please feel free to say so. My edit counts have been balanced in several namespaces and my edit summary usage has been ~ 99%. This time, I'll have your page on watchlist, so you can reply here. In case you plan to nominate me, Pl. do so by 30th evening/ 31st morning as I foresee hectic activity on personal front after December 8th. Thanks a lot, -- Gurubrahma 10:12, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
I've been getting into some discussion with an anonymous user on both of these articles, and would appreciate some involvement from other editors. If you'd care to help, do check out the Talk pages for both. Thanks. Ëvilphoenix Burn! 07:46, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
Heh - thanks. I'll try better next time. By the way, no problem whatsoever. I never lost faith in your brilliance as a Wikipeddian!!! -- Cel e stianpower hablamé 18:23, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
Hi! I'm turning to you with a request, if you don't mind and have some spare time, if you could do edit count graph on my contribs and my' bot's contribs on Slovene Wikipedia. TIA! Regards, -- Klemen Kocjancic 10:03, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
Hi Durin! It seems that your question on the reference desk has generated a number of responses. I hope you'll find them useful. -- HappyCamper 01:25, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
Just wanted to note that I'm glad to see you've come back to editing, as I note you've popped up on my watchlist a few times; I still don't always agree with you, but I'm happy to have been wrong about thinking you wouldn't return. (Also, you *do* nominate good admin candidates.) Mindspillage (spill yours?) 02:47, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
Arpingstone, that must have been said from some sort of zen-like yoga position whilst sitting on top of a mountain :) Nicely done!
Thank you for your amusing comment at
User talk:Arpingstone (copied above). I had considered an angry reply or perhaps to simply delete. I decided that I might be able to embarrass the contributor by replying seriously. However I don't expect he/she will ever see my reply! -
Adrian Pingstone
15:54, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
I didn't edit anything... Why am I getting threatened? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.235.102.2 ( talk • contribs)
Cool cat, My vote on Luigi30's RfA has nothing to do with how many edits he has. I personally wouldn't care if he had half the edits that he has. I really wouldn't. What concerns me is a very significant lack of involvement in the project. There are a broad spectrum of people who are involved in Wikipedia. Some are serious wikiholics, like User:BD2412. Some barely contribute, making just an edit here or there every few months or so. Outside of the users who edit once or twice and disappear, everyone is somewhere along that spectrum. A number of people, myself included, feel that being very close to the low activity end of the spectrum is bad for an admin. There are a number of reasons for this.
Emblematic of one of those reasons; Luigi, in response to critics of his low activity level, has had a surge today in activity. But, in at least two instances he has not followed procedure. He placed a copyright violation notice on Tarrytown Music Hall ( [16]), but did not place a notice regarding the copyvio at Wikipedia:Copyright problems/2005 December 5, per procedure. This also happened at Anna Rosmus ( [17]). An active contributor to Wikipedia would most likely not have made this error. Luigi30 in these instances is not demonstrating knowledge of procedure nor due diligence in properly executing procedure. This to me shows the marks of an inexperienced editor. This has nothing to do with how many edits he has; it has to do with his dedication, experience, and knowledge of current policy and procedure.
Personally, I think Luigi30 is very, very dedicated to IRC but he lacks dedication to Wikipedia. We're not building an IRC channel. That's not our purpose. Our purpose here is building an encyclopedia. His statements that he does not have the time to contribute much on Wikipedia right now are simply false. He did in fact make more than 1900 comments on IRC over the last three weeks, while making just 14 edits over the same 3 weeks to Wikipedia. He most definitely does have the time but, either passively or actively, has made a choice not to contribute to Wikipedia very much at all, and instead focus his time on the IRC channel. I don't have any problem with someone being on the IRC channel. But, to use school taking up his time as an excuse while being highly active on IRC is simply fallacious.
If Luigi30 spent a fraction of the time he spends on IRC learning Wikipedia policy/procedure and demonstrated proper execution of same, I probably wouldn't have any problem supporting him. But, right now, he's simply proving the point that his activity level is problematic. This isn't "RfA cult"ism or "editcountism".
Thanks for your attention, -- Durin 16:09, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
A last minute note I was not criticising YOU spesificaly but the general idea in some peoples minds who are obsessed with editcountism. Dont take it personal ok? :) -- Cool Cat Talk| @ 16:22, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
Hey Durin, I get the impression that you are no lover of IRC for whatever reason but I'd like to have chat with you if possible. My nick is Talrias - could you ping me if you're on? Talrias ( t | e | c) 19:14, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
Patience :) Talking with someone else right now. -- Durin 19:49, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
Durin, since you were involved in this discussion before, I thought you may be interested in taking part in this new discussion and poll: Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_adminship#Poll_for_consensus. Owen× ☎ 23:42, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
Dear Durin, I've become an admin with a final tally of 50-0-0 and I've already used the rollback a couple of times. I am planning to lie low for a week with my admin rights as I want to be clear abt what exactly I'm doing with them. I am here to thank you from the bottom of my heart for your efforts in preparing the nom. Though it doesn't need mention, I'd be failing in my duty if I do not say that it was more a positive vote for you and your nomination rather than my contribs alone. It also puts on me the responsibility that I do not do anything silly, stupid or foolish. I'm happy abt the absence of neutral votes and negative votes and feel that the number of positive votes was also on the higher side. Sometimes, I feel that RfAs such as mine and BD2412's should be shown as links rather than transcluded ;). I don't think you need any re-confirmation abt the value people perceive in you, but if you needed one, look no further than my RfA and the comments therein.
As ur userpage is watchlisted by me, I've followed the exploits of the trolls on IRC from ur comments - don't feed the trolls, a cliche'd advice doesn't seem to work with these guys. I'm planning to raise on Village Pump, the issue of banning ppl from IRC when their record on Wikipedia is above board. If Wikipedia cannot discuss it as a part of policy, I'd also suggest that it stop advertising the IRC channel (as they do whenever the servers are down and the error message is displayed, asking the users to look at IRC for the time being). It is surprising to see how helpful you've been to people you hardly knew before, by helping them through analysis of their edits, doing the graphs, raising the level of debate and above all, improving the quality of ppl. I was going through your RfA yesterday and was amazed to see how you converted a "would be vandal" to a "handsome contributor." Due to all these reasons, I think I have something that suits you to a tee, the Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar.-- Gurubrahma 07:02, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
I know #wikipedia invaded Poland in 1939, but many of us have been much nicer since then - David Gerard 22:12, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
Although my RfA is not over yet, I figured that since so many people voted before it had been posted, I may as well start thanking people before it wraps up. It'll take me that long to thank everyone who voted anyway! Thank you, Durin, for your support - although I didn't break the 200 that you projected, it was nonetheless quite a ride. I shall do my best as an admin to make the reality of Wikipedia rise to the level of the dream. BD2412 T 23:46, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
Durin!! Thanks for checking in. The family continues to do well--both grandparents are recovering and seem to be doing better at home than they had been in the hospital--imagine that! I've been away focusing on school for a few days, so I apologize for the delay in responding.
How are things going in your end of the world?? Anything I can help with??
Talk to you soon and thanks again! >: Roby Wayne Talk 00:34, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
My inclination is to say that, if text is posted someplace where any person with an internet connection can see it, even if they have to sign up for an account or the like, then there is no expectation of privacy such that it would be inadmissible in a criminal action. Bear in mind that only the government is prohibited from acquiring evidence through a violation of the subject's right to privacy. In civil suits between private parties, there would be no bar to the admission of such evidence. In terms of making such conversations public, that would not be illegal, but might give rise to a cause of action for invasion of privacy if (again) the subject had a reasonable expectation of privacy. I'll have to work on this question some more, tho. BD2412 T 17:25, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
Ooops, thanks and sorry. Sebastian Kessel Talk 21:07, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
Hi Durin, I was just wondering if I could have your honest opinion of me and my contributions. I think that I am ready to contribute more to wikipedia, and I think of myself as capable of handling the added responsibility. The thing I would like to know is if you would nominate me for adminship. I have read your guidelines for admin nomination pretty thoroughly and I think I can meet your criteria. If you don't think I am up to the task, or that I am in some way not ready yet, then by all means please let me know. I assure you that I will not walk away from wikipedia should I not become an admin. However, I think I can help do more if I was. Thanks for your time. -- malo (tlk) (cntrbtns) 21:43, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
Durin, I just wanted to thank you for your nomination of me and all the work you put into
my rfa. I am quite sure that your extremely well researched nomination made me look very favorable as an admin canidate. I hope that I can live up to the trust that you have shown you have in me. Thanks again. --
malo
(tlk)
(cntrbtns)
04:22, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
Heard you were feeling ill. Get well soon!
Oh, and note there's some informal competition going on between certain folks as to who does the most good admin nominations. If it's ok for others to check out your list... hmmm! Kim Bruning 04:22, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
Actually, the word "Bengalooru" which has been anglicised as "Bangalore" was believed to have derived from "Bendakalooru" - hamlet of boiled beans. Scholars have now established that it was never Bendakalooru but always Bengalooru. This suggests that Yahoo has not done its homework and is as reliable as Wikipedia !!!! ;-) -- Gurubrahma 05:50, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
Durin, What I did was correct a mistake that somebody made when moving the RFA. The "end date" was changed to "Wednesday 16". I should've moved it to "Friday 16" or "Wednesday 14". Since I didn't remember the "correct" day and my original signature was on the 7th, I chose the 14 and explained what I did in my edit summary with the hopes that somebody caught it if I was wrong. I know you're Assuming good faith, and I don't blame you for assuming it was my problem. :)
Sebastian Kessel Talk 16:08, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
Is there a reason you re-inserted a POV rant into Medal of Honor? -- Carnildo 01:07, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
Greetings. Apologies for my undoing of your rv'ing of the heavily POV edit at Medal of Honor [3]. You were in the right. I must have accidentally hit the "rollback" link. My apologies. -- Durin 22:40, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
Hello, again. I am glad to see you back and feeling better. Some time ago you raised the possibility of nominating for admin duties. It is something I have though about from time to time for quite a while, but never pursued because I didn't see that much that I couldn't already do. Today I learned of a new special page: unwatched pages. It's available only to admins. I already have a big watchlist, but I'm willing to add my fair share of unwatched pages to it, especially for pages I have some knowledge of. If you are willing to help me, I think I'm ready to work on my nomination. Best regards, Jonathunder 23:12, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
Hi Durin,
I was wondering if I could get a graphic with all my edits, I've heard you've got a special macro on excel for it. Thanks in advance.
User:Laurent_Van_Winckel
Thanks for your changes to that page. Unfortunately, though I've yet to do an update on the page, it's generated automatically. Eventually, your changes will be overwritten by future updates. My apologies. -- Durin 15:11, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
I have to be at my parent's house at 8:30 tomorrow... you'd think I'd get some sleep. As for adminship, about a month ago I'd noticed myself on User:Durin/My guidelines for admin nomination and was flattered. But I decided I just wanted to get the RfA out of the way so I accepted the first time anyone wanted to nominate me... it's nice to have admin tools and not have to bug other admins to get stuff done. Anyway, Merry Christmas! -- W.marsh 05:20, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
Hello Durin,
I noticed you were the one who protected the article on How to Make a Sprite Comic in Eight Easy Bits; rightfully so, I saw some of the vandalism that was going on there and it was not a pretty sight. In the meantime, however, I've written a rather lengthy article on the sprite comic that bears that name and would like to ask for the article to be unprotected so it can be put up. -- R. Wolff 23:29, 29 December 2005 (UTC)