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https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T241921
This ticket is "a high-level overview of the whole sorry situation, written in the hope that it can influence resourcing choices at the WMF". "It's probably wise to assume that at best a small amount of movement resources can be spent on this."
These aren't my words, they are from the WMF's own Growth team. This is patently absurd. Please nudge whoever is in charge of allocating software development budgets at the WMF to get their priorities slightly less wrong, or, better still, get their management to fire them. It's a systemic problem, so it requires change at the very top. See e.g. Special:Permanentlink/935505317#Final_Outcome_of_Page_Curation_Improvements_Project_(Community_Tech) and Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2019-11-29/From the archives. MER-C 04:11, 13 January 2020 (UTC)
On 03 February 2006, it was reported to the WMF that our CAPTCHA system discriminates against blind people. See phabricator T6845 and phabricator T241921.
This appears to be a direct violation of the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 and leaves Wikipedia open to the possibility of a discrimination lawsuit.
In particular, National Federation of the Blind v. Target Corp. was a case where a major retailer, Target Corp., was sued because their web designers failed to design its website to enable persons with low or no vision to use it.
So why, after 13 years of inaction, do we not have a set of software requirements (including a testable definition of "done") and a schedule for solving this?
And no, I will not accept any proposed "solution" that lacks the name of an WMF employee who has been given the assignment of fixing this, a budget that says how much the WMF expects to spend on solving this, a deadline that says how long the WMF expects it to take to solve this, and a way for an independent third party to look at the results and verify whether the requirements were met.
I am left with these known facts:
If nothing happens by 03 February 2020 (that's 5 months from [when this was first posted on 2 September 2019]) you can expect to see messages by me posted to a lot of places with the title "14 years of discriminating against the blind.".
Again, for me to consider this to be something that the WMF takes seriously, the solution needs to include:
-- Guy Macon ( talk) 02:19, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
Thanks for clarifying that I need to add the page number cited, I have corrected this. Abdominal pain is indeed listed in my reference as being a common side effect of Omeprazole, with incidence frequency exceeding 10%; other known side effects listed as less common include nausea, vomiting, acid regurgitation, diarrhea, and constipation. The preface of the book explains the meaning of underscored, bolded, or capitalized terms; the underline indicates side effect incidence over 10%, non-underlined side effects are less common. UltravioletAlien ( talk) 01:06, 30 January 2020 (UTC)UltravioletAlien
So I've been editing Wikipedia here and there for a few months now, and I got assigned to write/rewrite an article for class (the whole Wiki EDU thing). I can take on a random stub if I like, but the article I really want to get my hands on is Anosmia. There's only five senses, and it seems like the article for the lack of this one being C-class is sorta silly.
Anyway. I know a bit more than my classmates going into this, ie the basic rules of Wikipedia and all, how to use it properly, but I have some questions...
That's about it. Of course anything you have to say would be helpful. Just trying to stay ahead of the curve here. Thanks, ForksForks ( talk) 05:41, 30 January 2020 (UTC)
Hi, you might want to check this new article I spotted..♦ Dr. Blofeld 12:31, 30 January 2020 (UTC)
Hey there... This is only tangentially related to Wikipedia, so I apologize if it's kind of out of left-field. There's a group on Facebook that advocates a protocol to help cure a medical condition. I've spent a significant amount of time evaluating their claims, and from what I can tell many of them are wrong or potentially harmful. I wanted to produce something like a rebuttal document, but I'm finding in many cases I can't produce specific articles to correct/refute a claim because it's more medically complicated than that. I'm wondering if (a) you would be willing to answer a few questions related to the claims made by that group, or (b) you know people who would or (c) if there's a good free or affordable venue to ask non-personal medical questions that would be appropriate here? - Scarpy ( talk) 22:47, 28 January 2020 (UTC)
Thank you for sending me the article on Phencyclidine. Have you had an opportunity to look at it yourself? Between my basic German and some help from Word and Chrome, I have much of it translated, but the technical jargon remains a minor issue. It would seem much of the approximate structures are limited to a shorter section at the end of publication, and I'm not sure PCP was created. The User:Cosmotroniks may be correct. I'm trying to get him into a discussion with us. MartinezMD ( talk) 15:38, 31 January 2020 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Trigenics is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Trigenics until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. The Anome ( talk) 13:50, 31 January 2020 (UTC)
The new Talk section regarding the CFR epidemiology article is something you might look in on, since you have been on contact with this editor about their medical editing before. This is time-sensitive because the NYT's extensive graphics coverage of the Wuhan infection includes a repeatedly cited plot of CFR vs transmissability (and the CFR article is one mucked up wuth unsourced content). I do not expect that this editor, who seems inactive, will remove his own inaccurate and unsourced material. Since I no longer log here, I cannot do large deletions (and this would require blanking of a section). Look in if you have the time and inclination.
At the same time, I think the whole Transmission risks and rates article could be taken down for similar reasons—both articles could be replaced with two sentences from any current epidemiology text, by an esteemed editor such as yourself, and with that begin to move the articles quickly toward being encyclopedic. No one has time to fix huge tracts of unsourced, and often significantly (if not entirely) inaccurate material. Cheers, a Prof. 2601:246:C700:19D:6DB8:E3D9:8FD6:A7B0 ( talk) 21:39, 31 January 2020 (UTC)
My old email is deprecated, so I won't be checking it anymore, so the best way now is to use the email link-- Deep fried okra 01:07, 1 February 2020 (UTC).
The replacement of individual country links with worldmeter site has reduced the information. Earlier, those links were in many cases directing readers to official sources of information. How do we know for sure worldmeter is itself reliable. Moreover, those links were giving additional information as to who these patients were, from where they are. I request you to kindly reverse the change. You change is aesthetically pleasing but as far as information is concerned, I believe it has dented the same. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 183.83.174.250 ( talk) 05:13, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
I agreed some of the links were old, that ought to be deleted. But latest media articles are helpful. These media articles were giving important information in addition to numbers. In case of almost all countries, these links were informing the interested readers about the geographical location within the country where infections were confirmed, in some cases travel history of the infected among others. I feel that those links were helpful to that extent.Now with only worldmeter links, that information is not there in the article.
As far as semi-protection of article is concerned, I agree with it too. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 183.83.174.250 ( talk) 05:27, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
Dear Doctor James, in this table, the information was easily available to the reader. Unfortunately you simply deleted without ensuring that information is placed somewhere else, which I think is a loss for readers. Another thing is how sure you are about the reliability of worldmeter numbers. They are also relying on media reports mostly. So how people doing it on this page any different from there approach. I request you sincerely to kindly put back the latest official/media links for the individual countries please. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 183.83.174.250 ( talk) 05:35, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
No, you reference is again using media reports in many cases. The media links here in these tables were very useful. Anyways, I think we have hit a roadblock. You are not ready to budge, nor will I. But ultimately since you are the one who can make changes because of semi-protection, my not agreeing hardly means anything. Peace and thanks. :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 183.83.174.250 ( talk) 05:43, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
News and updates for administrators from the past month (January 2020).
|
![]()
|
wide-spread support for an alternative desysoping procedure based on community input. No proposed process received consensus.
that checkuser and oversight blocks must not be reversed or modified without prior consultation with the checkuser or oversighter who placed the block, the respective functionary team, or the Arbitration Committee.
I see you are on holiday, but ticket:2020020110005701 expresses concern about Wikipedia's coverage of morgellons disease.-- S Philbrick (Talk) 16:35, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
Hi Doc James, may you have a great vacation. It seems you referred to me with the tag "A major contributor to this article appears to have a close connection with its subject." on at least 4 Wikipedia pages: Flammer syndrome, minimally-invasive strabismus surgery and the researchers/innovators connected to these terms, Swiss ophthalmologist Josef Flammer and Daniel Mojon. I have not checked other contributions yet.
I have left a note on your talk page in August, with no response or result so far (have been rather inactive since then). At least in Europe, according to stories in the media, Wikipedia is losing contributors. Those willing to contribute should be encouraged - not discouraged which is what hurdles like these are doing.
I'm not a Wiki expert like you and have no idea where and how I am supposed to describe/justify a "connection" - so your advice would be appreciated.
While I'm not sure what kind of connection one can have with a medical condition besides having it (and I don't have Flammer syndrome, fortunately) and a surgical procedure for a completely different condition (I do not perform minimally-invasive strabismus surgery nor did I ever undergo it, again fortunately),
as an ophthalmologist and somebody who works in medical publishing I know Professors Mojon and Flammer just as I know a couple of hundred other ophthalmologists, I've heard them at meetings give lectures and I have read some of their publications. That's my connection to these two men. I am not Swiss and I live about 5,000 miles away from Switzerland.
The above applies, again, to many other specialists in this field whom I know - ophthalmologists are a tight community and those engaged in education (like giving lectures or publishing) know each other quite well. Unlike most of them, however, these two topics are something new and, in my view, deserve to be present in Wikipedia which they weren't before. There are scores of people having Flammer syndrome, many of them becoming aware of it only because they read about it in the general media - like Wikipedia. On some Wiki discussion page I saw contributors claiming that Flammer syndrome is a term used only by those who work about it; I believe these were in talks a couple of years old. This is wrong: at least in Europe and parts of Asia, Flammer syndrome is an accepted term in medical terminology.
Regarding minimally invasive strabismus surgery: This year, Daniel Mojon will be honored for the technique he developed and which is less traumatic for children undergoing strabismus surgery than established methods by the American Academy of Ophthalmology (AAO), the largest and most renowned society of eye care providers in the world, as an "Unsung Hero". The meeting will be held in Las Vegas in November. I really can not imagine a vote of approval for the man and the method from a higher authority.
Well, I would be happy if this settles the question of my connections to these four topics.
Kind regards George — Preceding unsigned comment added by George G Milford ( talk • contribs) 19:54, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
Done, created user page, still rudimentary...Best George G Milford ( talk) 20:17, 2 February 2020 (UTC)
Hi Doc James, the article on Narcolepsy used to have an explaining video that I found quite useful and that has been removed. I realised that it was you that removed it, and that it was also you that originally added it to the article. I am just curious about the reason why you removed it, as you did not comment your edit. Cheers, El muto ( talk) 12:15, 2 February 2020 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 155 | ← | Archive 160 | Archive 161 | Archive 162 | Archive 163 | Archive 164 | Archive 165 |
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T241921
This ticket is "a high-level overview of the whole sorry situation, written in the hope that it can influence resourcing choices at the WMF". "It's probably wise to assume that at best a small amount of movement resources can be spent on this."
These aren't my words, they are from the WMF's own Growth team. This is patently absurd. Please nudge whoever is in charge of allocating software development budgets at the WMF to get their priorities slightly less wrong, or, better still, get their management to fire them. It's a systemic problem, so it requires change at the very top. See e.g. Special:Permanentlink/935505317#Final_Outcome_of_Page_Curation_Improvements_Project_(Community_Tech) and Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2019-11-29/From the archives. MER-C 04:11, 13 January 2020 (UTC)
On 03 February 2006, it was reported to the WMF that our CAPTCHA system discriminates against blind people. See phabricator T6845 and phabricator T241921.
This appears to be a direct violation of the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 and leaves Wikipedia open to the possibility of a discrimination lawsuit.
In particular, National Federation of the Blind v. Target Corp. was a case where a major retailer, Target Corp., was sued because their web designers failed to design its website to enable persons with low or no vision to use it.
So why, after 13 years of inaction, do we not have a set of software requirements (including a testable definition of "done") and a schedule for solving this?
And no, I will not accept any proposed "solution" that lacks the name of an WMF employee who has been given the assignment of fixing this, a budget that says how much the WMF expects to spend on solving this, a deadline that says how long the WMF expects it to take to solve this, and a way for an independent third party to look at the results and verify whether the requirements were met.
I am left with these known facts:
If nothing happens by 03 February 2020 (that's 5 months from [when this was first posted on 2 September 2019]) you can expect to see messages by me posted to a lot of places with the title "14 years of discriminating against the blind.".
Again, for me to consider this to be something that the WMF takes seriously, the solution needs to include:
-- Guy Macon ( talk) 02:19, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
Thanks for clarifying that I need to add the page number cited, I have corrected this. Abdominal pain is indeed listed in my reference as being a common side effect of Omeprazole, with incidence frequency exceeding 10%; other known side effects listed as less common include nausea, vomiting, acid regurgitation, diarrhea, and constipation. The preface of the book explains the meaning of underscored, bolded, or capitalized terms; the underline indicates side effect incidence over 10%, non-underlined side effects are less common. UltravioletAlien ( talk) 01:06, 30 January 2020 (UTC)UltravioletAlien
So I've been editing Wikipedia here and there for a few months now, and I got assigned to write/rewrite an article for class (the whole Wiki EDU thing). I can take on a random stub if I like, but the article I really want to get my hands on is Anosmia. There's only five senses, and it seems like the article for the lack of this one being C-class is sorta silly.
Anyway. I know a bit more than my classmates going into this, ie the basic rules of Wikipedia and all, how to use it properly, but I have some questions...
That's about it. Of course anything you have to say would be helpful. Just trying to stay ahead of the curve here. Thanks, ForksForks ( talk) 05:41, 30 January 2020 (UTC)
Hi, you might want to check this new article I spotted..♦ Dr. Blofeld 12:31, 30 January 2020 (UTC)
Hey there... This is only tangentially related to Wikipedia, so I apologize if it's kind of out of left-field. There's a group on Facebook that advocates a protocol to help cure a medical condition. I've spent a significant amount of time evaluating their claims, and from what I can tell many of them are wrong or potentially harmful. I wanted to produce something like a rebuttal document, but I'm finding in many cases I can't produce specific articles to correct/refute a claim because it's more medically complicated than that. I'm wondering if (a) you would be willing to answer a few questions related to the claims made by that group, or (b) you know people who would or (c) if there's a good free or affordable venue to ask non-personal medical questions that would be appropriate here? - Scarpy ( talk) 22:47, 28 January 2020 (UTC)
Thank you for sending me the article on Phencyclidine. Have you had an opportunity to look at it yourself? Between my basic German and some help from Word and Chrome, I have much of it translated, but the technical jargon remains a minor issue. It would seem much of the approximate structures are limited to a shorter section at the end of publication, and I'm not sure PCP was created. The User:Cosmotroniks may be correct. I'm trying to get him into a discussion with us. MartinezMD ( talk) 15:38, 31 January 2020 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Trigenics is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Trigenics until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. The Anome ( talk) 13:50, 31 January 2020 (UTC)
The new Talk section regarding the CFR epidemiology article is something you might look in on, since you have been on contact with this editor about their medical editing before. This is time-sensitive because the NYT's extensive graphics coverage of the Wuhan infection includes a repeatedly cited plot of CFR vs transmissability (and the CFR article is one mucked up wuth unsourced content). I do not expect that this editor, who seems inactive, will remove his own inaccurate and unsourced material. Since I no longer log here, I cannot do large deletions (and this would require blanking of a section). Look in if you have the time and inclination.
At the same time, I think the whole Transmission risks and rates article could be taken down for similar reasons—both articles could be replaced with two sentences from any current epidemiology text, by an esteemed editor such as yourself, and with that begin to move the articles quickly toward being encyclopedic. No one has time to fix huge tracts of unsourced, and often significantly (if not entirely) inaccurate material. Cheers, a Prof. 2601:246:C700:19D:6DB8:E3D9:8FD6:A7B0 ( talk) 21:39, 31 January 2020 (UTC)
My old email is deprecated, so I won't be checking it anymore, so the best way now is to use the email link-- Deep fried okra 01:07, 1 February 2020 (UTC).
The replacement of individual country links with worldmeter site has reduced the information. Earlier, those links were in many cases directing readers to official sources of information. How do we know for sure worldmeter is itself reliable. Moreover, those links were giving additional information as to who these patients were, from where they are. I request you to kindly reverse the change. You change is aesthetically pleasing but as far as information is concerned, I believe it has dented the same. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 183.83.174.250 ( talk) 05:13, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
I agreed some of the links were old, that ought to be deleted. But latest media articles are helpful. These media articles were giving important information in addition to numbers. In case of almost all countries, these links were informing the interested readers about the geographical location within the country where infections were confirmed, in some cases travel history of the infected among others. I feel that those links were helpful to that extent.Now with only worldmeter links, that information is not there in the article.
As far as semi-protection of article is concerned, I agree with it too. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 183.83.174.250 ( talk) 05:27, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
Dear Doctor James, in this table, the information was easily available to the reader. Unfortunately you simply deleted without ensuring that information is placed somewhere else, which I think is a loss for readers. Another thing is how sure you are about the reliability of worldmeter numbers. They are also relying on media reports mostly. So how people doing it on this page any different from there approach. I request you sincerely to kindly put back the latest official/media links for the individual countries please. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 183.83.174.250 ( talk) 05:35, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
No, you reference is again using media reports in many cases. The media links here in these tables were very useful. Anyways, I think we have hit a roadblock. You are not ready to budge, nor will I. But ultimately since you are the one who can make changes because of semi-protection, my not agreeing hardly means anything. Peace and thanks. :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 183.83.174.250 ( talk) 05:43, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
News and updates for administrators from the past month (January 2020).
|
![]()
|
wide-spread support for an alternative desysoping procedure based on community input. No proposed process received consensus.
that checkuser and oversight blocks must not be reversed or modified without prior consultation with the checkuser or oversighter who placed the block, the respective functionary team, or the Arbitration Committee.
I see you are on holiday, but ticket:2020020110005701 expresses concern about Wikipedia's coverage of morgellons disease.-- S Philbrick (Talk) 16:35, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
Hi Doc James, may you have a great vacation. It seems you referred to me with the tag "A major contributor to this article appears to have a close connection with its subject." on at least 4 Wikipedia pages: Flammer syndrome, minimally-invasive strabismus surgery and the researchers/innovators connected to these terms, Swiss ophthalmologist Josef Flammer and Daniel Mojon. I have not checked other contributions yet.
I have left a note on your talk page in August, with no response or result so far (have been rather inactive since then). At least in Europe, according to stories in the media, Wikipedia is losing contributors. Those willing to contribute should be encouraged - not discouraged which is what hurdles like these are doing.
I'm not a Wiki expert like you and have no idea where and how I am supposed to describe/justify a "connection" - so your advice would be appreciated.
While I'm not sure what kind of connection one can have with a medical condition besides having it (and I don't have Flammer syndrome, fortunately) and a surgical procedure for a completely different condition (I do not perform minimally-invasive strabismus surgery nor did I ever undergo it, again fortunately),
as an ophthalmologist and somebody who works in medical publishing I know Professors Mojon and Flammer just as I know a couple of hundred other ophthalmologists, I've heard them at meetings give lectures and I have read some of their publications. That's my connection to these two men. I am not Swiss and I live about 5,000 miles away from Switzerland.
The above applies, again, to many other specialists in this field whom I know - ophthalmologists are a tight community and those engaged in education (like giving lectures or publishing) know each other quite well. Unlike most of them, however, these two topics are something new and, in my view, deserve to be present in Wikipedia which they weren't before. There are scores of people having Flammer syndrome, many of them becoming aware of it only because they read about it in the general media - like Wikipedia. On some Wiki discussion page I saw contributors claiming that Flammer syndrome is a term used only by those who work about it; I believe these were in talks a couple of years old. This is wrong: at least in Europe and parts of Asia, Flammer syndrome is an accepted term in medical terminology.
Regarding minimally invasive strabismus surgery: This year, Daniel Mojon will be honored for the technique he developed and which is less traumatic for children undergoing strabismus surgery than established methods by the American Academy of Ophthalmology (AAO), the largest and most renowned society of eye care providers in the world, as an "Unsung Hero". The meeting will be held in Las Vegas in November. I really can not imagine a vote of approval for the man and the method from a higher authority.
Well, I would be happy if this settles the question of my connections to these four topics.
Kind regards George — Preceding unsigned comment added by George G Milford ( talk • contribs) 19:54, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
Done, created user page, still rudimentary...Best George G Milford ( talk) 20:17, 2 February 2020 (UTC)
Hi Doc James, the article on Narcolepsy used to have an explaining video that I found quite useful and that has been removed. I realised that it was you that removed it, and that it was also you that originally added it to the article. I am just curious about the reason why you removed it, as you did not comment your edit. Cheers, El muto ( talk) 12:15, 2 February 2020 (UTC)