Hello Victoria! welcome to Wikipedia!
Hope you enjoy contributing to Wikipedia. Be bold in editing pages and don't let other scare you off! Here is some stuff that you might find useful:
I hope you stick around and keep contributing to Wikipedia. Drop us a note at
Wikipedia:New user log. If you need help, you can drop a note on my talk page or use
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utcursch |
talk
15:08, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
I just read your blog entry. If you feel that the subject is not notable enough for Wikipedia, you can tag the article with {{ notability}}. If you are sure that the subject is certainly not notable, you can propose deletion. Hope this helps. utcursch | talk 15:14, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
Thanks! I guess my biggest problem is that although the winner of Miss USA may mean she's a notable person, I have to question why the proliferation of such arguably trivial information as the winners of the Miss Teen USA pageant at the state level would even be included in Wikipedia. - perhaps the USA winner - but although it is important NOW (which would make it news) in 10 years it will be trivia unless some of these ladies go on to do great things. And then you have the duplication of names - what if someone more notable has the same name. I've just never seen what I would consider "trivial" information included in Wikipedia. There is a whole project dedicated to it. It just seems to belong in Wiki News.
brightideasguru |
talk
Per previous AFD's and general discussion it has been established that winners of Miss Teen USA, Miss USA & Miss America state pageants and those who have competed in the national pageants are notable. If you have another Victoria Davis you would like to write an article about, you should create a new article, not tack the information on to an existing article. -- PageantUpdater • talk | contribs | esperanza 01:32, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
And I am more than upset about your blog article. If you have a problem with me, address it to me directly, not on a pulpit. In reply to your comments on that blog: a) As I have said above, state titleholders and those who have competed in the national pageants are notable. b) The information is not trivia. These women compete for the state title, sometimes against over one hundred other girls, reign for one year making appearances and appearing in news media etc and compete in a live, nationally televised pageant. Once they pass on their crown they are not simply forgotton as you suggest - they are part of the history of the state and national pageants and deserve recognition for their role in this history. c) If you believe yourself notable enough to have a wikipedia article (and generally you should not create one about yourself anyway), you should create a new article and not tack your information on to an existing article. d) I have never offered any award to anyone. I have, however, been awarded two barnstars for my contributions to wikipedia in this very field. -- PageantUpdater • talk | contribs | esperanza 01:39, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
In the discussion that you had it was with other people interested in pageants. However, we will have to agree to disagree with this - the notability means that a person OVER TIME has notability, your information would more than likely qualify as news. Also, since some of these girls appear to be minors - do you have releases to post their information. Yes, I know that I cannot create an article on myself, however, when we have people with the same name there are issues. I would in no way disparage a person with a pageant - I also did beauty pageants myself and know that there is a lot of effort. I myself have won many awards in education - does that not make me notable as well. However, this is not about me. This is about being consistent across all fields, which it is apparent that wikipedia is not. As a leading teacher of wikis in the classroom, the shortcomings of wikipedia are becoming glaringly apparent. And I did address this personally on the talk page of the page that I edited (which did not have a response) and several other places. Victoria A. Davis 17:50, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
I have never been involved in discussions on beauty pageants winners and I am not from USA, so I can't say much on this topic. There is no age restriction related to biographies.
In the past, I've personally nominated many articles for deletion, some of which survived deletion. I still feel that they are not worthy of being included in Wikipedia, but there are many others who feel otherwise. One should not feel bad about it -- Wikipedia is run by users, including me and you. If a majority of the people feel that the state winners of Mrs. teen USA are notable enough for Wikipedia, probably they are. If you feel otherwise, you can always nominate the article for deletion. It doesn't amount to waging a "war" -- it will just lead to some discussion.
Let me also point out that past discussions are in your favor: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Calley Anne Slagle. The article on Miss Idaho USA Calley Anne Slagle was deleted -- there was no claim to notability apart from the state teen title.
All of us would want to have a single notability standard that can be applied to all the articles. But, such a standard can never be agreed upon. We do have guidelines WP:BIO, but it's not policy -- just a guideline. The issue of notability has always been discussed hotly, but the debate can never result in a 100% consensus -- only some essays: Wikipedia:Pokémon test, Wikipedia:Inclusion is not an indicator of notability.
Regarding your second query -- in case of people with same names, disambiguation pages are created. For eg. Bhupinder Singh. In cases where one of the person is considerably more famous than others, the page is redirected to the person on that article and a separate disambiguation page is created. For eg. Gandhi redirects to Mahatma Gandhi, which has a link to the disambiguation page: Gandhi (disambiguation). The disambiguation page has links to articles on other Gandhis -- Indira Gandhi, Rajiv Gandhi, Sonia Gandhi etc.
I hope your unpleasant experience doesn't scare you off Wikipedia. utcursch | talk 13:18, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
Hello Victoria! welcome to Wikipedia!
Hope you enjoy contributing to Wikipedia. Be bold in editing pages and don't let other scare you off! Here is some stuff that you might find useful:
I hope you stick around and keep contributing to Wikipedia. Drop us a note at
Wikipedia:New user log. If you need help, you can drop a note on my talk page or use
Wikipedia:New contributors' help page. You can also type {{helpme}}
on your user page, and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions.
utcursch |
talk
15:08, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
I just read your blog entry. If you feel that the subject is not notable enough for Wikipedia, you can tag the article with {{ notability}}. If you are sure that the subject is certainly not notable, you can propose deletion. Hope this helps. utcursch | talk 15:14, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
Thanks! I guess my biggest problem is that although the winner of Miss USA may mean she's a notable person, I have to question why the proliferation of such arguably trivial information as the winners of the Miss Teen USA pageant at the state level would even be included in Wikipedia. - perhaps the USA winner - but although it is important NOW (which would make it news) in 10 years it will be trivia unless some of these ladies go on to do great things. And then you have the duplication of names - what if someone more notable has the same name. I've just never seen what I would consider "trivial" information included in Wikipedia. There is a whole project dedicated to it. It just seems to belong in Wiki News.
brightideasguru |
talk
Per previous AFD's and general discussion it has been established that winners of Miss Teen USA, Miss USA & Miss America state pageants and those who have competed in the national pageants are notable. If you have another Victoria Davis you would like to write an article about, you should create a new article, not tack the information on to an existing article. -- PageantUpdater • talk | contribs | esperanza 01:32, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
And I am more than upset about your blog article. If you have a problem with me, address it to me directly, not on a pulpit. In reply to your comments on that blog: a) As I have said above, state titleholders and those who have competed in the national pageants are notable. b) The information is not trivia. These women compete for the state title, sometimes against over one hundred other girls, reign for one year making appearances and appearing in news media etc and compete in a live, nationally televised pageant. Once they pass on their crown they are not simply forgotton as you suggest - they are part of the history of the state and national pageants and deserve recognition for their role in this history. c) If you believe yourself notable enough to have a wikipedia article (and generally you should not create one about yourself anyway), you should create a new article and not tack your information on to an existing article. d) I have never offered any award to anyone. I have, however, been awarded two barnstars for my contributions to wikipedia in this very field. -- PageantUpdater • talk | contribs | esperanza 01:39, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
In the discussion that you had it was with other people interested in pageants. However, we will have to agree to disagree with this - the notability means that a person OVER TIME has notability, your information would more than likely qualify as news. Also, since some of these girls appear to be minors - do you have releases to post their information. Yes, I know that I cannot create an article on myself, however, when we have people with the same name there are issues. I would in no way disparage a person with a pageant - I also did beauty pageants myself and know that there is a lot of effort. I myself have won many awards in education - does that not make me notable as well. However, this is not about me. This is about being consistent across all fields, which it is apparent that wikipedia is not. As a leading teacher of wikis in the classroom, the shortcomings of wikipedia are becoming glaringly apparent. And I did address this personally on the talk page of the page that I edited (which did not have a response) and several other places. Victoria A. Davis 17:50, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
I have never been involved in discussions on beauty pageants winners and I am not from USA, so I can't say much on this topic. There is no age restriction related to biographies.
In the past, I've personally nominated many articles for deletion, some of which survived deletion. I still feel that they are not worthy of being included in Wikipedia, but there are many others who feel otherwise. One should not feel bad about it -- Wikipedia is run by users, including me and you. If a majority of the people feel that the state winners of Mrs. teen USA are notable enough for Wikipedia, probably they are. If you feel otherwise, you can always nominate the article for deletion. It doesn't amount to waging a "war" -- it will just lead to some discussion.
Let me also point out that past discussions are in your favor: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Calley Anne Slagle. The article on Miss Idaho USA Calley Anne Slagle was deleted -- there was no claim to notability apart from the state teen title.
All of us would want to have a single notability standard that can be applied to all the articles. But, such a standard can never be agreed upon. We do have guidelines WP:BIO, but it's not policy -- just a guideline. The issue of notability has always been discussed hotly, but the debate can never result in a 100% consensus -- only some essays: Wikipedia:Pokémon test, Wikipedia:Inclusion is not an indicator of notability.
Regarding your second query -- in case of people with same names, disambiguation pages are created. For eg. Bhupinder Singh. In cases where one of the person is considerably more famous than others, the page is redirected to the person on that article and a separate disambiguation page is created. For eg. Gandhi redirects to Mahatma Gandhi, which has a link to the disambiguation page: Gandhi (disambiguation). The disambiguation page has links to articles on other Gandhis -- Indira Gandhi, Rajiv Gandhi, Sonia Gandhi etc.
I hope your unpleasant experience doesn't scare you off Wikipedia. utcursch | talk 13:18, 2 January 2007 (UTC)