Hey, I noticed that you have some complaints about the Western world article. Do you have specific changes you'd like to see? I think you might have some fair points, but your methods aren't going to get you anywhere within the Wikipedia bureaucracy. What's your main account? I might be willing to help if you if I agree with your proposal. — Freoh 18:40, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
Modern-day Western world encompasses much of the nations and states where civilization or culture is considered as Western [1] [2] [3]—the roots of which some Westerners trace back to the Greco-Roman world. [4] [5]
Side by side with Christianity, the classical Greco-Roman world forms the sound foundation of Western civilization. Greek philosophy is also the origin for the methods and contents of the philosophical thought and theological investigation in Islam and Judaism.
I find this dispute objectively sickening then.
There should be some recognition of the clerical philosophy of the medieval age to actually move the page forward, not Greek philosophy which is instead the origin of Western culture (founded in the Ancient Near East), not of the Western world. I'm beginning to understand that the notion of the religious ordering of (EU) Catholic Secular clergy being less involved "in the world", may be supportive of the present Eurocentric bias at the page. Please revise. About Herodotus, how can we prefer the side-notion that the tyre developed from the wheel, instead of the main-notion that the Car replaced the Horse car? Bambablock ( talk) 09:23, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
have much time to challenge this systemic bias. Your strategies have only resulted in your getting blocked, so I'm asking you to focus your efforts more effectively.
An entirely new factor – the Church – came into the world. It was the start of the crystallization of mankind around this principle that unites the divine and the human.
Thus, the Romans deliberately adopted an older set of ideas and considered themselves part of an ongoing civilization that blended Greek and Roman values. Like the Greeks before them, they also divided civilization itself in a stark binary: there was Greco-Roman culture on the one hand and barbarism on the other, although they made a reluctant exception for Persia at times. [..] This shift to the east culminated in the move of the capital of the empire from the city of Rome to the Greek town of Byzantium, renamed Constantinople by the empire who ordered the move: Constantine. Thus, while the Greco-Roman legacy was certainly a major factor in the development of the idea of Western Civilization much later, “Roman” was certainly not the same thing as “western” at the time. [..] During the Middle Ages, another concept of what lay at the heart of Western Civilization arose, especially among Europeans. It was not just the connection to Roman and Greek accomplishments, but instead, to religion. The Roman Empire had started to become Christian in the early fourth century CE when the emperor Constantine converted to Christianity. Many Europeans in the Middle Ages came to believe that, despite the fact that they spoke different languages and had different rulers, they were united as part of “Christendom”: the kingdom of Christ and of Christians.
References
the term "Western" — refer to the culture of classical antiquity that arose in Greece and Rome; survived the collapse of the Roman Empire; spread to western and northern Europe; then during the great periods of exploration and colonization of the fifteenth through nineteenth centuries expanded to the Americas, Australia and areas of Asia and Africa; and now exercises global political, economic, cultural, and military power far greater than the size of its territory or population might otherwise suggest.
With the rise of Christianity during the Late Roman Empire, however, peoples in Europe began to identify themselves as part of a civilization different from others, such as that of Islam, leading to a concept of a Western civilization different from other civilizations. In the fifteenth century, Renaissance intellectuals began to identify this civilization not only with Christianity but also with the intellectual and political achievements of the ancient Greeks and Romans. Important to the development of the idea of a distinct Western civilization were encounters with other peoples. Between 700 and 1500, encounters with the world of Islam helped define the West. But after 1500, as European ships began to move into other parts of the world, encounters with peoples in Asia, Africa, and the Americas not only had an impact on the civilizations found there but also affected how people in the West defined themselves. At the same time, as they set up colonies, Europeans began to transplant a sense of Western identity to other areas of the world, especially North America and parts of Latin America, that have come to be considered part of Western civilization.
During the 18th and 19th centuries, Western civilization expanded geographically, in whole or in part. [...] a host of major trends... occurred essentially in parallel, suggesting significant cohesion within an expanded Western civilization. The industrial revolution, though launched in Britain, turned out to be a transatlantic process very quickly. ... The same applies to the new movement to limit per capita birth rates – the demographic transition that ran through Western civilization during the 19th century... and the outcomes by 1900, in unprecedentedly low birth rates per family combined with rapidly falling infant death rates, was essentially the same through out this expanded Western world.
Side by side with Christianity, the classical Greco-Roman world forms the sound foundation of Western civilization. Greek philosophy is also the origin for the methods and contents of the philosophical thought and theological investigation in Islam and Judaism.
Had the Persians overrun all of mainland Greece, had they then transformed the Greek city-states into satrapies of the Persian Empire, had Greek democracy been snuffed out, there would have been no Greek theater, no Greek science, no Plato, no Aristotle, no Sophocles, no Aeschylus. The incredible burst of creative energy that took place during the fifth and fourth centuries B.C.E. and that laid the foundation for all of later Western civilization would never have happened. [...] in the years between 490 and 479 B.C.E., the entire future of the Western world hung precariously in the balance.
Greekness was identified with freedom-spiritual and social as well as political-and slavery was equated with being barbarian, [...] 'democracy' was a Greek invention (celebrating its 2,500th anniversary in 1993/4) [...] an ancient culture, that of the Greeks — is both a foundation stone of our own (Western) civilization and at the same time in key respects a deeply alien phenomenon.
The Greeks provided the chromosomes of Western civilization. One does not have to idealize the Greeks to sustain that point. Greek ways of exploring the cosmos, defining the problems of knowledge (and what is meant by knowledge itself), creating the language in which such problems are explored, representing the physical world and human society in the arts, defining the nature of value, describing the past, still underlie the Western cultural tradition.
In 1,200 years the tiny village of Rome established a republic, conquered all of the Mediterranean basin and western Europe, lost its republic, and finally, surrendered its empire. In the process the Romans laid the foundation of Western civilization. [...] The pragmatic Romans brought Greek and Hebrew ideas down to earth, modified them, and transmitted them throughout western Europe. [...] Roman law remains the basis for the legal codes of most western European and Latin American countries — Even in English-speaking countries, where common law prevails, Roman law has exerted substantial influence.
{{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}
.
Callanecc (
talk •
contribs •
logs)
04:57, 19 January 2023 (UTC)Hey, I noticed that you have some complaints about the Western world article. Do you have specific changes you'd like to see? I think you might have some fair points, but your methods aren't going to get you anywhere within the Wikipedia bureaucracy. What's your main account? I might be willing to help if you if I agree with your proposal. — Freoh 18:40, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
Modern-day Western world encompasses much of the nations and states where civilization or culture is considered as Western [1] [2] [3]—the roots of which some Westerners trace back to the Greco-Roman world. [4] [5]
Side by side with Christianity, the classical Greco-Roman world forms the sound foundation of Western civilization. Greek philosophy is also the origin for the methods and contents of the philosophical thought and theological investigation in Islam and Judaism.
I find this dispute objectively sickening then.
There should be some recognition of the clerical philosophy of the medieval age to actually move the page forward, not Greek philosophy which is instead the origin of Western culture (founded in the Ancient Near East), not of the Western world. I'm beginning to understand that the notion of the religious ordering of (EU) Catholic Secular clergy being less involved "in the world", may be supportive of the present Eurocentric bias at the page. Please revise. About Herodotus, how can we prefer the side-notion that the tyre developed from the wheel, instead of the main-notion that the Car replaced the Horse car? Bambablock ( talk) 09:23, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
have much time to challenge this systemic bias. Your strategies have only resulted in your getting blocked, so I'm asking you to focus your efforts more effectively.
An entirely new factor – the Church – came into the world. It was the start of the crystallization of mankind around this principle that unites the divine and the human.
Thus, the Romans deliberately adopted an older set of ideas and considered themselves part of an ongoing civilization that blended Greek and Roman values. Like the Greeks before them, they also divided civilization itself in a stark binary: there was Greco-Roman culture on the one hand and barbarism on the other, although they made a reluctant exception for Persia at times. [..] This shift to the east culminated in the move of the capital of the empire from the city of Rome to the Greek town of Byzantium, renamed Constantinople by the empire who ordered the move: Constantine. Thus, while the Greco-Roman legacy was certainly a major factor in the development of the idea of Western Civilization much later, “Roman” was certainly not the same thing as “western” at the time. [..] During the Middle Ages, another concept of what lay at the heart of Western Civilization arose, especially among Europeans. It was not just the connection to Roman and Greek accomplishments, but instead, to religion. The Roman Empire had started to become Christian in the early fourth century CE when the emperor Constantine converted to Christianity. Many Europeans in the Middle Ages came to believe that, despite the fact that they spoke different languages and had different rulers, they were united as part of “Christendom”: the kingdom of Christ and of Christians.
References
the term "Western" — refer to the culture of classical antiquity that arose in Greece and Rome; survived the collapse of the Roman Empire; spread to western and northern Europe; then during the great periods of exploration and colonization of the fifteenth through nineteenth centuries expanded to the Americas, Australia and areas of Asia and Africa; and now exercises global political, economic, cultural, and military power far greater than the size of its territory or population might otherwise suggest.
With the rise of Christianity during the Late Roman Empire, however, peoples in Europe began to identify themselves as part of a civilization different from others, such as that of Islam, leading to a concept of a Western civilization different from other civilizations. In the fifteenth century, Renaissance intellectuals began to identify this civilization not only with Christianity but also with the intellectual and political achievements of the ancient Greeks and Romans. Important to the development of the idea of a distinct Western civilization were encounters with other peoples. Between 700 and 1500, encounters with the world of Islam helped define the West. But after 1500, as European ships began to move into other parts of the world, encounters with peoples in Asia, Africa, and the Americas not only had an impact on the civilizations found there but also affected how people in the West defined themselves. At the same time, as they set up colonies, Europeans began to transplant a sense of Western identity to other areas of the world, especially North America and parts of Latin America, that have come to be considered part of Western civilization.
During the 18th and 19th centuries, Western civilization expanded geographically, in whole or in part. [...] a host of major trends... occurred essentially in parallel, suggesting significant cohesion within an expanded Western civilization. The industrial revolution, though launched in Britain, turned out to be a transatlantic process very quickly. ... The same applies to the new movement to limit per capita birth rates – the demographic transition that ran through Western civilization during the 19th century... and the outcomes by 1900, in unprecedentedly low birth rates per family combined with rapidly falling infant death rates, was essentially the same through out this expanded Western world.
Side by side with Christianity, the classical Greco-Roman world forms the sound foundation of Western civilization. Greek philosophy is also the origin for the methods and contents of the philosophical thought and theological investigation in Islam and Judaism.
Had the Persians overrun all of mainland Greece, had they then transformed the Greek city-states into satrapies of the Persian Empire, had Greek democracy been snuffed out, there would have been no Greek theater, no Greek science, no Plato, no Aristotle, no Sophocles, no Aeschylus. The incredible burst of creative energy that took place during the fifth and fourth centuries B.C.E. and that laid the foundation for all of later Western civilization would never have happened. [...] in the years between 490 and 479 B.C.E., the entire future of the Western world hung precariously in the balance.
Greekness was identified with freedom-spiritual and social as well as political-and slavery was equated with being barbarian, [...] 'democracy' was a Greek invention (celebrating its 2,500th anniversary in 1993/4) [...] an ancient culture, that of the Greeks — is both a foundation stone of our own (Western) civilization and at the same time in key respects a deeply alien phenomenon.
The Greeks provided the chromosomes of Western civilization. One does not have to idealize the Greeks to sustain that point. Greek ways of exploring the cosmos, defining the problems of knowledge (and what is meant by knowledge itself), creating the language in which such problems are explored, representing the physical world and human society in the arts, defining the nature of value, describing the past, still underlie the Western cultural tradition.
In 1,200 years the tiny village of Rome established a republic, conquered all of the Mediterranean basin and western Europe, lost its republic, and finally, surrendered its empire. In the process the Romans laid the foundation of Western civilization. [...] The pragmatic Romans brought Greek and Hebrew ideas down to earth, modified them, and transmitted them throughout western Europe. [...] Roman law remains the basis for the legal codes of most western European and Latin American countries — Even in English-speaking countries, where common law prevails, Roman law has exerted substantial influence.
{{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}
.
Callanecc (
talk •
contribs •
logs)
04:57, 19 January 2023 (UTC)