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Hey, I hate to be the one to inform you, but, I'm afraid it appears that your RfB has been closed as no consensus [1]. I thought you would have made a great 'crat, and, hopefully you'll review the opposition's comments, and work on those areas, then try again in a while. SQL Query me! 15:45, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
Hi Avi. First I wanted to say, sorry that you didn't pass your RfB, but congrats that the process is over. I had some thoughts on the RfB that I wanted to share with you. This weekend I was considering voting, putting in a support. I didn't, and finally, this morning, I thought and didn't again. The reason? There was already an established sizeable opposition. The weight of the various oppose reasons could be argued, but none-the-less, they were for the most part valid. In regards to becoming a bureaucrat, I'm a strong believer that there should only be a promotion when there is virtually no legit opposition. I didn't add my support, because while I think you are qualified and would make a good 'crat, I think it is more important to respect the opposition's current concerns. Bottom line: I didn't want you to pass because enough community members raised their own personal concerns. This leads to a serious concern: because of accepted rules of promotion, we might be doing the wrong thing, not promoting someone who will likely help where we need it... a clear "net-positive", if you will. In all likelihood, if the crats promoted you, you would go on to do good for the project and would no doubt benefit others. However, there would always be that nagging thing, 20 or so good contributors who felt you weren't ready. Finally, my point: The strength of Wikipedia is not in its ability to always do what's for the best, but rather, to hold consensus above virtually everything. The whole project seems to be based on the theory that consensus is more important than anything, and who knows, that might be right. So, the Catch 22 is that I think it would be the best for everyone and everything if you had become a crat this time around, but it would have undermined the concept of clear consensus, which in these parts, is everything. So, maybe we suffer a little now without a good crat, but the stubborn project lives on. Hopefully it lives on to see RfB Avraham 3, where all opposition concerns have been properly addressed and we can have you in an appropriate rank. Gwynand | Talk• Contribs 15:59, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
Thank you for your message Avi. I am little disappointed myself that your RFB did not pass, I still think you would make a good bureaucrat and I have done my research to come to that assessment. My suggestion now is simply to try and address the oppositions concerns, continue to contribute to to the RFA process, and try again in the future. Good luck! Camaron | Chris (talk) 16:43, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
Sorry for the unfortunate turn of events. If it is any consolation, your support section was indeed lengthy and massive. That should buoy your spirits. I think you'd make a fine bureaucrat despite the so call "lack of WP:U participation". Anyway, good luck to you in the future if you decide to run again. I'll be there with my sign of endorsement aloft. : ) Cheers dude. Look forward to your comments at RfA. Wisdom89 ( T / C) 16:36, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
I was sorry to hear your RfB failed. I hope you'll come back later and become a bureaucrat. Cheers! - Diligent Terrier (and friends) 17:09, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
RfBs are among the most frustrating things a user may experience on Wikipedia, but please don't be frustrated. Focus on all the support/compliments you've received, as well as on valued advices the opposition may have provided, and keep up your outstanding work. And please try again, and again, and again. :-) Best regards, Hús ö nd 19:54, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
Hi Avi, see my response to your comments here here. Best regards, gidonb ( talk) 21:16, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
(cheers for using my real name in your message :p) Hello Avi. My condolences for not passing your RfB, but I'm sure you'll pass if you try a third time in the coming future and you would make an excellent 'crat. Cheers, Sephiroth BCR ( Converse) 22:59, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
Good luck post-RfB, Avi! I think you will be a great future bureaucrat (no doubt about it!). You really know my (and many others') concern about gettins some experience with the various username-related activities of bureaucrats, so I wish you the best on that. One suggestion I might have, not that it may make a lot of sense, is not to try too hard? Which seems sort of contradictory, because in order to get the Username experience, you have to make a point to work on it. So, perhaps that's not really useful advice. Oh well! :) Seriously, though, I'm looking forward to supporting whenever you come back up for it. -- Natalya 11:19, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
Hey, sorry to hear you didn't get the 'crat bit. That was a damn close run thing though, I really thought you were going to make it. Anyway I hope you continue to be involved at RfA, your comments are always thoughtful and interesting. the wub "?!" 12:49, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
I can't believe it. I still don't see what the reason is - the debate seemed to say that several of the "opposes" were questionable. Sigh... I guess I'll never understand the expectations for admin or bureacrat. Do try again! Love teh latin name - should have thought of that myself! Thanks! King Pickle ( talk) 01:14, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for your message. I found your RfB difficult and I very nearly switched to support. My stated reason was the prime motivation and, as you could tell, I struggled with it. I think it'd be fairly easy to deal with that and return in a few months. Heck, I'd be happy to nominate you - I have a 100% record with RfB noms. I think you've impressed plenty of people with the way you've handled yourself during the stress of the process, even, I would suggest, opposers. Cheers, -- Dweller ( talk) 20:37, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
Come to think of it, we disagree on everything! What the heck was I thinking?! Hah, hah, but really, I know we've tangled, but I feel like I've seen you grow as a wikipedian, and I guess hope somehow that my attitude has rubbed off on you a little. I stumbled in there accidently from Eleland's talk page, and read everything, and knew I had to say something, and in my gut just felt you were up to the task. Perhaps it was what we call in poker a "crying call" but even still I believe it was the right one. Too bad I'll not get to find out, since you didn't pass thru this time -- I'm sorry my vote couldn't put you over the top. -- Kendrick7 talk 03:32, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
Hey Avi, thanks for your message. I too was disappointed to see your opposition, as I feel you would make a great 'crat. And don't worry about the name mix-up, it made me chuckle :) Good luck with your endeavors in the future, if you ever need anything, feel free to drop by. Cheers, « Gonzo fan2007 ( talk ♦ contribs) @ 06:46, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
Make kitteh sad... kitteh not even sure anymoar wot pplz look 4 in bearcatz?! Totalee lame! Hope fyoochur RfB iz not fail again, WP miss out. ~ Riana ⁂ 16:29, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
Sorry, Avraham, no T-shirts this time. Here's a Barnstar instead. :) Acalamari 20:47, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
The Socratic Barnstar | ||
For your great answers and communication with other users throughout the RfB. Acalamari 20:47, 13 May 2008 (UTC) |
I just became aware of your (regrettably unsuccessful) recent try at RfB. Had I known about it I would have wholeheartedly supported you. I recently put one of those automatic who's-going-for-RfA-and-RfB thingies on my talk page, so if you give it another shot I'll notice more readily and be able to put in my two cents. In a way it's a shame that we have such strict rules about canvassing because it would be better if more people knew about these things. Raymond Arritt ( talk) 02:47, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for your support at my recent Request for adminship. I hope you find I live up to your expectations. Incidentally, I didn’t !vote in your recent RfB because every time I vote for someone there they seem not to be successful, and I didn’t want to be a jinx and affect the outcome. (I know, silly to be superstitious about these things, but…) If it helps, you were in my thoughts throughout the process. Best, Risker ( talk) 16:17, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
...I hope that you will consider standing again for RfB (early next year perhaps?) I know that you'd make a fine 'crat. Cheers, Majoreditor ( talk) 04:04, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
I've no problem with that, Avi, and thank you for the note. The only reason I intervened, (against a very strong desire not to return to wiki) was that, while wholly understanding Ryan's frustration, I could see absolutely no evidence on the ANI page for the serious proposal being vetted. I've have myself often remonstrated with PR, not least recently. But PR's attitude is no more problematical than that of many other editors who hang about, unchallenged (on principle, I never made complaints to admin because I preferred to simply try and sort out the problems on talk pages, irrespective of the rules). If you do indeed have strong evidence for Ryan's proposal by all means go ahead. I'm sure G-Dett will pitch in. My defense was not a personal thing with PR, but a matter of instincts. I have something in my bones that gets combative whenever I happen to observe anyone, anywhere, cornered, irrespective of like or dislikes. And, as I say, far too many editors with a record (not on ANI) for atrocious editing still manage to breezily do damage and waste serious editors' time, by slinging words around like 'antisemite' without any administrative action. It was in protest at this, on a specific page, that I decided to pull my own plug. I trust you will use your experience, along the lines you suggested to me in your last note on the ANI page to me, to assist others higher up in making I/P articles more comfortable for serious editors. That will not eliminate strong difficulties, but a huge amount of futile bartering might be avoided. Regards Nishidani ( talk) 14:51, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
Nishidani...
Hi Avi. Thanks for commenting on my WP:AN suggestion about PR. But I wasn't quite sure what you meant. You said, "That is part of the basis...." To what does that refer? It sounds like you're opposed to my suggestion, but it's not quite clear why. Thanks very much. Take care, HG | Talk 18:20, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
I thought your comments were absolutely delightful: gentle, charming, cogent, and yet incisive and to the point.
I haven't seen you around a lot. Hope to see more of you. -- Ravpapa ( talk) 19:37, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions with Avraham. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
< Archive 30 | Archive 31 | Archive 32 > |
All Pages: | 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 - 9 - 10 - 11 - 12 - 13 - 14 - 15 - 16 - 17 - 18 - 19 - 20 - 21 - 22 - 23 - 24 - 25 - 26 - 27 - 28 - 29 - 30 - 31 - 32 - 33 - 34 - 35 - 36 - 37 - 38 - 39 - 40 - 41 - 42 - 43 - 44 - 45 - 46 - 47 - 48 - 49 - 50 - 51 - 52 - 53 - 54 - 55 - 56 - 57 - 58 - 59 - 60 - ... (up to 100) |
Hey, I hate to be the one to inform you, but, I'm afraid it appears that your RfB has been closed as no consensus [1]. I thought you would have made a great 'crat, and, hopefully you'll review the opposition's comments, and work on those areas, then try again in a while. SQL Query me! 15:45, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
Hi Avi. First I wanted to say, sorry that you didn't pass your RfB, but congrats that the process is over. I had some thoughts on the RfB that I wanted to share with you. This weekend I was considering voting, putting in a support. I didn't, and finally, this morning, I thought and didn't again. The reason? There was already an established sizeable opposition. The weight of the various oppose reasons could be argued, but none-the-less, they were for the most part valid. In regards to becoming a bureaucrat, I'm a strong believer that there should only be a promotion when there is virtually no legit opposition. I didn't add my support, because while I think you are qualified and would make a good 'crat, I think it is more important to respect the opposition's current concerns. Bottom line: I didn't want you to pass because enough community members raised their own personal concerns. This leads to a serious concern: because of accepted rules of promotion, we might be doing the wrong thing, not promoting someone who will likely help where we need it... a clear "net-positive", if you will. In all likelihood, if the crats promoted you, you would go on to do good for the project and would no doubt benefit others. However, there would always be that nagging thing, 20 or so good contributors who felt you weren't ready. Finally, my point: The strength of Wikipedia is not in its ability to always do what's for the best, but rather, to hold consensus above virtually everything. The whole project seems to be based on the theory that consensus is more important than anything, and who knows, that might be right. So, the Catch 22 is that I think it would be the best for everyone and everything if you had become a crat this time around, but it would have undermined the concept of clear consensus, which in these parts, is everything. So, maybe we suffer a little now without a good crat, but the stubborn project lives on. Hopefully it lives on to see RfB Avraham 3, where all opposition concerns have been properly addressed and we can have you in an appropriate rank. Gwynand | Talk• Contribs 15:59, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
Thank you for your message Avi. I am little disappointed myself that your RFB did not pass, I still think you would make a good bureaucrat and I have done my research to come to that assessment. My suggestion now is simply to try and address the oppositions concerns, continue to contribute to to the RFA process, and try again in the future. Good luck! Camaron | Chris (talk) 16:43, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
Sorry for the unfortunate turn of events. If it is any consolation, your support section was indeed lengthy and massive. That should buoy your spirits. I think you'd make a fine bureaucrat despite the so call "lack of WP:U participation". Anyway, good luck to you in the future if you decide to run again. I'll be there with my sign of endorsement aloft. : ) Cheers dude. Look forward to your comments at RfA. Wisdom89 ( T / C) 16:36, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
I was sorry to hear your RfB failed. I hope you'll come back later and become a bureaucrat. Cheers! - Diligent Terrier (and friends) 17:09, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
RfBs are among the most frustrating things a user may experience on Wikipedia, but please don't be frustrated. Focus on all the support/compliments you've received, as well as on valued advices the opposition may have provided, and keep up your outstanding work. And please try again, and again, and again. :-) Best regards, Hús ö nd 19:54, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
Hi Avi, see my response to your comments here here. Best regards, gidonb ( talk) 21:16, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
(cheers for using my real name in your message :p) Hello Avi. My condolences for not passing your RfB, but I'm sure you'll pass if you try a third time in the coming future and you would make an excellent 'crat. Cheers, Sephiroth BCR ( Converse) 22:59, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
Good luck post-RfB, Avi! I think you will be a great future bureaucrat (no doubt about it!). You really know my (and many others') concern about gettins some experience with the various username-related activities of bureaucrats, so I wish you the best on that. One suggestion I might have, not that it may make a lot of sense, is not to try too hard? Which seems sort of contradictory, because in order to get the Username experience, you have to make a point to work on it. So, perhaps that's not really useful advice. Oh well! :) Seriously, though, I'm looking forward to supporting whenever you come back up for it. -- Natalya 11:19, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
Hey, sorry to hear you didn't get the 'crat bit. That was a damn close run thing though, I really thought you were going to make it. Anyway I hope you continue to be involved at RfA, your comments are always thoughtful and interesting. the wub "?!" 12:49, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
I can't believe it. I still don't see what the reason is - the debate seemed to say that several of the "opposes" were questionable. Sigh... I guess I'll never understand the expectations for admin or bureacrat. Do try again! Love teh latin name - should have thought of that myself! Thanks! King Pickle ( talk) 01:14, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for your message. I found your RfB difficult and I very nearly switched to support. My stated reason was the prime motivation and, as you could tell, I struggled with it. I think it'd be fairly easy to deal with that and return in a few months. Heck, I'd be happy to nominate you - I have a 100% record with RfB noms. I think you've impressed plenty of people with the way you've handled yourself during the stress of the process, even, I would suggest, opposers. Cheers, -- Dweller ( talk) 20:37, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
Come to think of it, we disagree on everything! What the heck was I thinking?! Hah, hah, but really, I know we've tangled, but I feel like I've seen you grow as a wikipedian, and I guess hope somehow that my attitude has rubbed off on you a little. I stumbled in there accidently from Eleland's talk page, and read everything, and knew I had to say something, and in my gut just felt you were up to the task. Perhaps it was what we call in poker a "crying call" but even still I believe it was the right one. Too bad I'll not get to find out, since you didn't pass thru this time -- I'm sorry my vote couldn't put you over the top. -- Kendrick7 talk 03:32, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
Hey Avi, thanks for your message. I too was disappointed to see your opposition, as I feel you would make a great 'crat. And don't worry about the name mix-up, it made me chuckle :) Good luck with your endeavors in the future, if you ever need anything, feel free to drop by. Cheers, « Gonzo fan2007 ( talk ♦ contribs) @ 06:46, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
Make kitteh sad... kitteh not even sure anymoar wot pplz look 4 in bearcatz?! Totalee lame! Hope fyoochur RfB iz not fail again, WP miss out. ~ Riana ⁂ 16:29, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
Sorry, Avraham, no T-shirts this time. Here's a Barnstar instead. :) Acalamari 20:47, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
The Socratic Barnstar | ||
For your great answers and communication with other users throughout the RfB. Acalamari 20:47, 13 May 2008 (UTC) |
I just became aware of your (regrettably unsuccessful) recent try at RfB. Had I known about it I would have wholeheartedly supported you. I recently put one of those automatic who's-going-for-RfA-and-RfB thingies on my talk page, so if you give it another shot I'll notice more readily and be able to put in my two cents. In a way it's a shame that we have such strict rules about canvassing because it would be better if more people knew about these things. Raymond Arritt ( talk) 02:47, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for your support at my recent Request for adminship. I hope you find I live up to your expectations. Incidentally, I didn’t !vote in your recent RfB because every time I vote for someone there they seem not to be successful, and I didn’t want to be a jinx and affect the outcome. (I know, silly to be superstitious about these things, but…) If it helps, you were in my thoughts throughout the process. Best, Risker ( talk) 16:17, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
...I hope that you will consider standing again for RfB (early next year perhaps?) I know that you'd make a fine 'crat. Cheers, Majoreditor ( talk) 04:04, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
I've no problem with that, Avi, and thank you for the note. The only reason I intervened, (against a very strong desire not to return to wiki) was that, while wholly understanding Ryan's frustration, I could see absolutely no evidence on the ANI page for the serious proposal being vetted. I've have myself often remonstrated with PR, not least recently. But PR's attitude is no more problematical than that of many other editors who hang about, unchallenged (on principle, I never made complaints to admin because I preferred to simply try and sort out the problems on talk pages, irrespective of the rules). If you do indeed have strong evidence for Ryan's proposal by all means go ahead. I'm sure G-Dett will pitch in. My defense was not a personal thing with PR, but a matter of instincts. I have something in my bones that gets combative whenever I happen to observe anyone, anywhere, cornered, irrespective of like or dislikes. And, as I say, far too many editors with a record (not on ANI) for atrocious editing still manage to breezily do damage and waste serious editors' time, by slinging words around like 'antisemite' without any administrative action. It was in protest at this, on a specific page, that I decided to pull my own plug. I trust you will use your experience, along the lines you suggested to me in your last note on the ANI page to me, to assist others higher up in making I/P articles more comfortable for serious editors. That will not eliminate strong difficulties, but a huge amount of futile bartering might be avoided. Regards Nishidani ( talk) 14:51, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
Nishidani...
Hi Avi. Thanks for commenting on my WP:AN suggestion about PR. But I wasn't quite sure what you meant. You said, "That is part of the basis...." To what does that refer? It sounds like you're opposed to my suggestion, but it's not quite clear why. Thanks very much. Take care, HG | Talk 18:20, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
I thought your comments were absolutely delightful: gentle, charming, cogent, and yet incisive and to the point.
I haven't seen you around a lot. Hope to see more of you. -- Ravpapa ( talk) 19:37, 12 August 2008 (UTC)