![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
hey, i replied on my talk page in case you didn't notice :) Jessi1989 ( talk) 18:47, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
Welcome to the ranks of those of us who have been working on this article for 18 months or more. I must respectfully disagree of the characterization of the lead as a "meandering mess." Per WP:MOS, with an article of this size, the purpose of the lead is to summarize it, not include any information which is not covered in equal or greater depth within the article. It should be comprehensive but not go into too much depth either.
As it is currently written, it flows logically and chronologically, although we may be coming up short on that final criteria, too much depth. However, we cannot accomplish the other goals with this lead in a single paragraph. That has been the result after numerous edits in the past. We have frequently had to re-edit for greater brevity as events have unfolded, and I suggest your efforts might be re-directed to that goal which would benefit the article. Vaoverland ( talk) 22:50, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
I think you had it pretty well figured out. It is likely that Google will pickup on your new Wikipedia article for him on their own. It will probably be ranked higher than the one which is a subpage of your user page they have now. One trick to make that happen faster is to visit it a number of times, since Google reacts to the number of times a web page is accessed.
Because restoring deleted pages can get tricky, I went ahead and created a new subpage for you which has nothing but a redirect to the James Gelfand article. I don't think you did anything wrong, and I don't believe you would have needed admin tools to do what I just did. Several thoughts:
Hopefully, this will be your first message. Vaoverland ( talk) 06:04, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
Hi - thanks for the message.
I'm not a regular on that article, was just watching CNN and looked up the article, and changed the heading levels. The Manual of Style might seem confusing at first, but after a while it seems natural (there are some jokes about obsessive Wikipedia editors typing and in emails) -- you seem to have picked the rest up a lot quicker than I did :).
Anyway, welcome to Wikipedia and thanks for the work you've done recently on the Larry Langford article -- all looks great.
-- Josh Atkins ( talk - contribs) 17:29, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
Viriditas ( talk) 12:20, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
You still have time to submit a DYK for Kamilo Beach. Viriditas ( talk) 12:36, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
Aloha, Anna! Having just submitted an article for the Did you know section on the Main Page, I can try helping you get a fact from your Kamilo Beach article onto the main page. We should start with getting an idea of what the "hook" (the fact from the article that appears on the main page) could be. Are there any facts in the article that you think would be interesting to Wikipedia visitors? Facts that have citations would be better choices, but go ahead and pick any you'd like. Thanks, and good job on the article! — Kal (talk) 03:28, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
You say it's "courtesy algalita.org". If so, it cannot be licensed as a PD release unless it states as much at the point of original publication. If it's unpublished, you need for them to send you an email releasing it into the public domain. Otherwise, I will have to request the image be deleted from Commons as it is inadequately free. Daniel Case ( talk) 10:38, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
You need to email her back (or if you want me to do it and explain this better, I will) explaining that they need to have language like that found in {{ attribution}} underneath the pictures on their webpage if they want it to legally be PD or PD-equivalent (and reserving the right to attribution, as her email does, means it cannot technically be a PD image as that status reserves no rights whatsoever). Daniel Case ( talk) 11:36, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
Also see the new problem I mention at the bottom of this page: ABC News attributes the photo to Charles Moore and The Algalita Marine Research. [1] Anna, keep in mind, you're not the first new editor to go through this. Pretty much every editor on the site has had to deal with issues like this. Let's just say, welcome to Wikipedia! :) Viriditas ( talk) 11:55, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
I do not know how long it takes for Google. I have some things appear sooner than others. I don't think there is anything more you can do. However, less your cousin "freak", the Google hit which comes back with your sub page does lead to his article, so many people who might do a Google search and click in it would not even notice a difference. Vaoverland ( talk) 05:40, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
I did add the cat for birth year. Mark Vaoverland ( talk) 05:49, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
In case you are interested, we discussed this in the WikiProject Hawaiʻi May Newsletter. Scroll down to the bottom section named "Did you know", second paragraph (beginning with "To submit Hawaii articles to DYK...") for some helpful tips. :) Viriditas ( talk) 10:27, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
Hi Julia, just so that I'm clear, do you believe the MJ Islam story? I am not sure if this is about including rumours as part of the page, or including this story as fact, or what. As, you may have read, I agree with most of what you have written. Thanks.-- Anna Frodesiak ( talk) 04:13, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
-- Julia-The-Little-Lady ( talk) 23:06, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
thanks for that info, gald your cousin won't have to have the breakdown you feared <gr> Vaoverland ( talk) 18:12, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
Anna, I'm sure everyone believes you, but the problem isn't your licensing - it's the URL: [2]. You see, even though you received permission to use the photo, the page the photo appears on says, "Copyright 2002 - 2008 Algalita.org. All rights reserved." So, we probably need to get them to contact OTRS. Here are the instructions for releasing the photo. You will probably need to have Marieta Francis or another representative send the e-mail per those instructions. Good luck. Viriditas ( talk) 11:12, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
Saaayyyy, I still have the pic on my hardrive. I was the one who name it Kamilo.courtesy.of.Algalita...... etc. Can I just re-up it to wikicommons under the name KamiloBeach1.jpg with no accreditation? Algalita did say credit if you can.-- Anna Frodesiak ( talk) 11:44, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
That's a good question. If Charles Moore took the photos and lets Algalita use them, then he's the copyright owner, not them, and should politely ask them to indicate as such on their page. But, if they paid him to take the photos for them, then they own the copyright, unless they agreed to let him retain copyright as part of the arrangement.
You might also consider asking Algalita, if the photos (including the one at issue) are indeed theirs, to relicense the photos as CC-BY-SA via this page (they'd have to choose to allow commercial use of the work, to allow modifications and unported jurisdiction for it to be good for us). Daniel Case ( talk) 19:50, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
You could try e-mailing Charles Lawrence (cwlawrenceAThotmailDOTcom) and ask him to release one of the images of Kamilo Beach for use on Wikipedia. [3]. Since the copyright on Pbase.com belongs to the owner, a simple e-mail from him, in this instance, would allow us to use it. Viriditas ( talk) 12:23, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
Done! I sent:
Hello!
I have created a Wikipedia page on the Kamilo Beach. We are having a bit of a problem with the photo. Marieta Francis of Algalita allowed us to use a pic but their website has a copyright statement below the pic. The admin at wiki feel that the pic may not be public domain, even though Marieta sent me two emails stating that it was okay.
I am writing to see if you can email to me, or upload to Wikicommons, a Kamilo Beach photo, showing all its horrors, which is totally public domain. That means not appearing on any site which has a copyright notice attached to the pic.
Kamilo brings attention to the most underreported phenomenon on earth -- The Great Pacific Garbage Patch. If only people knew...
Please help if you can. "This is our most desperate hour" --Princess Leah, Starwars Two or something like that.
P.S. Kamilo, and the GPGPatch are nominated to appear on Wiki's front page. Good exposure, so time is of the essence. -- Anna Frodesiak ( talk) 13:02, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
This would be an excellent solution, although the pic for that group of DYKs has been chosen. Daniel Case ( talk) 19:44, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
BorgQueen ( talk) 21:48, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
Why thank you! I usually edit and fix up country music articles, but I decided to fix up Etta James' because I really like Etta James and appreciate the great things she has done for American music. I also figured people are going to research her since, Beyonce is playing her in Cadillac Records, and they'll need a detailed article. Thnak you again, not many users appreciate what I do. Do you like Etta James? Dottiewest1fan ( talk) 00:48, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
I commented here. Viriditas ( talk) 08:38, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
![]() |
The Exceptional Newcomer Award | |
I Viriditas give Anna Frodesiak this award for her exceptional contributions to Kamilo Beach and her research and development of new articles relating to the environment and ecology of Hawaii. Viriditas ( talk) 07:49, 10 December 2008 (UTC) |
I've changed the heading in Hawaii to Geography and environment. Please go ahead and add what you have in User:Anna Frodesiak/HawaiiEnviro to that section, under a new heading, such as "Environment". (remove the blockquote from the text before adding). I think this is fine for a preliminary summary style and will serve as a good starting point. Please add it, or a version of it. Obviously, we don't need subsections in the Hawaii article just yet, so I removed them. I would prefer to see two large paragraphs, rather than four, but do what you think is best. Viriditas ( talk) 06:04, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
The majority of environmental concerns effecting Hawaii today are related to pressures from increasing human population in the limited space of the islands. [1] A number of plant species are now extinct due grazing livestock, and aggressive non-indigenous species taking over the land. [2] Almost 40% of the endangered species in the United States are Hawaiian species, while nearly 75% of all extinctions have occured in Hawaii. [3]
Native flora once composed 89% of endemic species, but now includes more than 1044 introduced plant species; More than 100 of these are likely to be invasive in natural areas. Species such as the Strawberry guava (Psidium cattleianum), and Christmasberry (Schinus terebinthifolius) have spread across wide areas, competing with native species and altering the natural ecosystem. Recent invaders like Miconia or Velvet tree (Miconia calvescens) and Himalayan raspberry (Rubus ellipticus) are now permanently established over large areas. These species are predicted to decrease watershed function. [4]
Prior to the arrival of non-natives, some bird species were made extinct, or pushed to near extinction from the collection of feathers by Native Hawaiians. With the arrival of James Cook in 1778, a new set of environmental threats emerged. Alien species such as cats , dogs, pigs, and rats affected a number of indigenous species. Hawaii is known as the "extinction capital of the world" with the extinction of nearly half (140) of its historically recorded native bird species. [5] Some of the alien species that are currently affecting Hawaii include: frogs, rabbits, Mediterranean, Oriental, and melon flies that damage crops, ants that destroy native insects, and bacteria that infect waters. [2]
Compared with the mainland United States, Hawaii's rating on the air quality index is ranked among the best. Approximately 47% of all emissions are caused by burning fossil fuel for electricity production. Ground transport is the second biggest contributor with 22%, while air transport contributes 19%. [6] The groundwater and drinking water quality is considered good, but the waters surrounding the Hawaiian Islands are affected by effluents generated and released from the islands themselves. Floating plastic garbage is a problem, and refuse from the Great Pacific Garbage Patch is affecting beaches in Hawaii, such as Kamilo Beach.
I looked for ages too. Info is really hard to find on this guy. I am trying to contact the people who own or worked on the show. Thanks for the effort!! I just made a new page [ Monkey Island]. I can fatten this one up no problem. I can't quite figure out the disambig thingy due to CVLS (cranial volume limitation disorder)-- Anna Frodesiak ( talk) 15:10, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
Please do not remove references to traction devices. The FastSize Extender was PROVEN in a medical study (ensure you READ sources) to correct the disease. Removing it is like removing chemotherapy from the Cancer wiki and refusing to believe it helps because you personally don't understand it and won't read medical facts. Several other editors have allowed it to stay. Bradmad ( talk) 18:25, 16 December 2008 (UTC) Long and hard? Read it. The source points to the facts. Forget it, you editors are utterly hopeless. Bradmad ( talk) 20:42, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
Anna, I haven't forgotten about the charts you want to upload. I can do that now (I'm going to recreate them for you) but I was wondering if you had some others in mind. Viriditas ( talk) 02:22, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
Ah, thanks. I would try to do it, but I haven't a clue how. I can give it a shot if you are busy. I don't have any others in mind.-- Anna Frodesiak ( talk) 03:34, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
I just started a new article in your user space. Can you help me expand it? :) Viriditas ( talk) 02:10, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
Hello,
I answered Here
Best regards, Abigor ( talk) 16:47, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
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![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
hey, i replied on my talk page in case you didn't notice :) Jessi1989 ( talk) 18:47, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
Welcome to the ranks of those of us who have been working on this article for 18 months or more. I must respectfully disagree of the characterization of the lead as a "meandering mess." Per WP:MOS, with an article of this size, the purpose of the lead is to summarize it, not include any information which is not covered in equal or greater depth within the article. It should be comprehensive but not go into too much depth either.
As it is currently written, it flows logically and chronologically, although we may be coming up short on that final criteria, too much depth. However, we cannot accomplish the other goals with this lead in a single paragraph. That has been the result after numerous edits in the past. We have frequently had to re-edit for greater brevity as events have unfolded, and I suggest your efforts might be re-directed to that goal which would benefit the article. Vaoverland ( talk) 22:50, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
I think you had it pretty well figured out. It is likely that Google will pickup on your new Wikipedia article for him on their own. It will probably be ranked higher than the one which is a subpage of your user page they have now. One trick to make that happen faster is to visit it a number of times, since Google reacts to the number of times a web page is accessed.
Because restoring deleted pages can get tricky, I went ahead and created a new subpage for you which has nothing but a redirect to the James Gelfand article. I don't think you did anything wrong, and I don't believe you would have needed admin tools to do what I just did. Several thoughts:
Hopefully, this will be your first message. Vaoverland ( talk) 06:04, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
Hi - thanks for the message.
I'm not a regular on that article, was just watching CNN and looked up the article, and changed the heading levels. The Manual of Style might seem confusing at first, but after a while it seems natural (there are some jokes about obsessive Wikipedia editors typing and in emails) -- you seem to have picked the rest up a lot quicker than I did :).
Anyway, welcome to Wikipedia and thanks for the work you've done recently on the Larry Langford article -- all looks great.
-- Josh Atkins ( talk - contribs) 17:29, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
Viriditas ( talk) 12:20, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
You still have time to submit a DYK for Kamilo Beach. Viriditas ( talk) 12:36, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
Aloha, Anna! Having just submitted an article for the Did you know section on the Main Page, I can try helping you get a fact from your Kamilo Beach article onto the main page. We should start with getting an idea of what the "hook" (the fact from the article that appears on the main page) could be. Are there any facts in the article that you think would be interesting to Wikipedia visitors? Facts that have citations would be better choices, but go ahead and pick any you'd like. Thanks, and good job on the article! — Kal (talk) 03:28, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
You say it's "courtesy algalita.org". If so, it cannot be licensed as a PD release unless it states as much at the point of original publication. If it's unpublished, you need for them to send you an email releasing it into the public domain. Otherwise, I will have to request the image be deleted from Commons as it is inadequately free. Daniel Case ( talk) 10:38, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
You need to email her back (or if you want me to do it and explain this better, I will) explaining that they need to have language like that found in {{ attribution}} underneath the pictures on their webpage if they want it to legally be PD or PD-equivalent (and reserving the right to attribution, as her email does, means it cannot technically be a PD image as that status reserves no rights whatsoever). Daniel Case ( talk) 11:36, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
Also see the new problem I mention at the bottom of this page: ABC News attributes the photo to Charles Moore and The Algalita Marine Research. [1] Anna, keep in mind, you're not the first new editor to go through this. Pretty much every editor on the site has had to deal with issues like this. Let's just say, welcome to Wikipedia! :) Viriditas ( talk) 11:55, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
I do not know how long it takes for Google. I have some things appear sooner than others. I don't think there is anything more you can do. However, less your cousin "freak", the Google hit which comes back with your sub page does lead to his article, so many people who might do a Google search and click in it would not even notice a difference. Vaoverland ( talk) 05:40, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
I did add the cat for birth year. Mark Vaoverland ( talk) 05:49, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
In case you are interested, we discussed this in the WikiProject Hawaiʻi May Newsletter. Scroll down to the bottom section named "Did you know", second paragraph (beginning with "To submit Hawaii articles to DYK...") for some helpful tips. :) Viriditas ( talk) 10:27, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
Hi Julia, just so that I'm clear, do you believe the MJ Islam story? I am not sure if this is about including rumours as part of the page, or including this story as fact, or what. As, you may have read, I agree with most of what you have written. Thanks.-- Anna Frodesiak ( talk) 04:13, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
-- Julia-The-Little-Lady ( talk) 23:06, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
thanks for that info, gald your cousin won't have to have the breakdown you feared <gr> Vaoverland ( talk) 18:12, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
Anna, I'm sure everyone believes you, but the problem isn't your licensing - it's the URL: [2]. You see, even though you received permission to use the photo, the page the photo appears on says, "Copyright 2002 - 2008 Algalita.org. All rights reserved." So, we probably need to get them to contact OTRS. Here are the instructions for releasing the photo. You will probably need to have Marieta Francis or another representative send the e-mail per those instructions. Good luck. Viriditas ( talk) 11:12, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
Saaayyyy, I still have the pic on my hardrive. I was the one who name it Kamilo.courtesy.of.Algalita...... etc. Can I just re-up it to wikicommons under the name KamiloBeach1.jpg with no accreditation? Algalita did say credit if you can.-- Anna Frodesiak ( talk) 11:44, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
That's a good question. If Charles Moore took the photos and lets Algalita use them, then he's the copyright owner, not them, and should politely ask them to indicate as such on their page. But, if they paid him to take the photos for them, then they own the copyright, unless they agreed to let him retain copyright as part of the arrangement.
You might also consider asking Algalita, if the photos (including the one at issue) are indeed theirs, to relicense the photos as CC-BY-SA via this page (they'd have to choose to allow commercial use of the work, to allow modifications and unported jurisdiction for it to be good for us). Daniel Case ( talk) 19:50, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
You could try e-mailing Charles Lawrence (cwlawrenceAThotmailDOTcom) and ask him to release one of the images of Kamilo Beach for use on Wikipedia. [3]. Since the copyright on Pbase.com belongs to the owner, a simple e-mail from him, in this instance, would allow us to use it. Viriditas ( talk) 12:23, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
Done! I sent:
Hello!
I have created a Wikipedia page on the Kamilo Beach. We are having a bit of a problem with the photo. Marieta Francis of Algalita allowed us to use a pic but their website has a copyright statement below the pic. The admin at wiki feel that the pic may not be public domain, even though Marieta sent me two emails stating that it was okay.
I am writing to see if you can email to me, or upload to Wikicommons, a Kamilo Beach photo, showing all its horrors, which is totally public domain. That means not appearing on any site which has a copyright notice attached to the pic.
Kamilo brings attention to the most underreported phenomenon on earth -- The Great Pacific Garbage Patch. If only people knew...
Please help if you can. "This is our most desperate hour" --Princess Leah, Starwars Two or something like that.
P.S. Kamilo, and the GPGPatch are nominated to appear on Wiki's front page. Good exposure, so time is of the essence. -- Anna Frodesiak ( talk) 13:02, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
This would be an excellent solution, although the pic for that group of DYKs has been chosen. Daniel Case ( talk) 19:44, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
BorgQueen ( talk) 21:48, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
Why thank you! I usually edit and fix up country music articles, but I decided to fix up Etta James' because I really like Etta James and appreciate the great things she has done for American music. I also figured people are going to research her since, Beyonce is playing her in Cadillac Records, and they'll need a detailed article. Thnak you again, not many users appreciate what I do. Do you like Etta James? Dottiewest1fan ( talk) 00:48, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
I commented here. Viriditas ( talk) 08:38, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
![]() |
The Exceptional Newcomer Award | |
I Viriditas give Anna Frodesiak this award for her exceptional contributions to Kamilo Beach and her research and development of new articles relating to the environment and ecology of Hawaii. Viriditas ( talk) 07:49, 10 December 2008 (UTC) |
I've changed the heading in Hawaii to Geography and environment. Please go ahead and add what you have in User:Anna Frodesiak/HawaiiEnviro to that section, under a new heading, such as "Environment". (remove the blockquote from the text before adding). I think this is fine for a preliminary summary style and will serve as a good starting point. Please add it, or a version of it. Obviously, we don't need subsections in the Hawaii article just yet, so I removed them. I would prefer to see two large paragraphs, rather than four, but do what you think is best. Viriditas ( talk) 06:04, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
The majority of environmental concerns effecting Hawaii today are related to pressures from increasing human population in the limited space of the islands. [1] A number of plant species are now extinct due grazing livestock, and aggressive non-indigenous species taking over the land. [2] Almost 40% of the endangered species in the United States are Hawaiian species, while nearly 75% of all extinctions have occured in Hawaii. [3]
Native flora once composed 89% of endemic species, but now includes more than 1044 introduced plant species; More than 100 of these are likely to be invasive in natural areas. Species such as the Strawberry guava (Psidium cattleianum), and Christmasberry (Schinus terebinthifolius) have spread across wide areas, competing with native species and altering the natural ecosystem. Recent invaders like Miconia or Velvet tree (Miconia calvescens) and Himalayan raspberry (Rubus ellipticus) are now permanently established over large areas. These species are predicted to decrease watershed function. [4]
Prior to the arrival of non-natives, some bird species were made extinct, or pushed to near extinction from the collection of feathers by Native Hawaiians. With the arrival of James Cook in 1778, a new set of environmental threats emerged. Alien species such as cats , dogs, pigs, and rats affected a number of indigenous species. Hawaii is known as the "extinction capital of the world" with the extinction of nearly half (140) of its historically recorded native bird species. [5] Some of the alien species that are currently affecting Hawaii include: frogs, rabbits, Mediterranean, Oriental, and melon flies that damage crops, ants that destroy native insects, and bacteria that infect waters. [2]
Compared with the mainland United States, Hawaii's rating on the air quality index is ranked among the best. Approximately 47% of all emissions are caused by burning fossil fuel for electricity production. Ground transport is the second biggest contributor with 22%, while air transport contributes 19%. [6] The groundwater and drinking water quality is considered good, but the waters surrounding the Hawaiian Islands are affected by effluents generated and released from the islands themselves. Floating plastic garbage is a problem, and refuse from the Great Pacific Garbage Patch is affecting beaches in Hawaii, such as Kamilo Beach.
I looked for ages too. Info is really hard to find on this guy. I am trying to contact the people who own or worked on the show. Thanks for the effort!! I just made a new page [ Monkey Island]. I can fatten this one up no problem. I can't quite figure out the disambig thingy due to CVLS (cranial volume limitation disorder)-- Anna Frodesiak ( talk) 15:10, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
Please do not remove references to traction devices. The FastSize Extender was PROVEN in a medical study (ensure you READ sources) to correct the disease. Removing it is like removing chemotherapy from the Cancer wiki and refusing to believe it helps because you personally don't understand it and won't read medical facts. Several other editors have allowed it to stay. Bradmad ( talk) 18:25, 16 December 2008 (UTC) Long and hard? Read it. The source points to the facts. Forget it, you editors are utterly hopeless. Bradmad ( talk) 20:42, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
Anna, I haven't forgotten about the charts you want to upload. I can do that now (I'm going to recreate them for you) but I was wondering if you had some others in mind. Viriditas ( talk) 02:22, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
Ah, thanks. I would try to do it, but I haven't a clue how. I can give it a shot if you are busy. I don't have any others in mind.-- Anna Frodesiak ( talk) 03:34, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
I just started a new article in your user space. Can you help me expand it? :) Viriditas ( talk) 02:10, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
Hello,
I answered Here
Best regards, Abigor ( talk) 16:47, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
{{
cite news}}
: Italic or bold markup not allowed in: |publisher=
(
help)
{{
cite web}}
: Check date values in: |date=
(
help); Unknown parameter |coauthors=
ignored (|author=
suggested) (
help)
{{
cite conference}}
: Unknown parameter |booktitle=
ignored (|book-title=
suggested) (
help)