If you are up for it, I added an article about Bill Slavick, an Independent Candidate for the Maine Senate.If you could take a look and help polish it, I would appreciate it.I am not good with sourcing.Most of the information comes directly from the candidate's own literature. mitchsensei
I will look in to it. Rangeley 16:23, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Since you bothered to ask a question, I guess I should answer. As far as you are concerned, I am someone that has seen your editing efforts as suppression of fact (which in fact they have been). I suspect you are a sockpuppet or paid propagandist of some kind, despite your stated interests (most or all of which I share). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.43.35.97 ( talk • contribs)
Thanks for fixing the link, I was going back to it, and you had already fixed it. mitchsensei
...and keep up the good work keeping our current events up to date. I hope you stick around. ;) -- Grun t 🇪🇺 02:33, 2005 Apr 20 (UTC)
An admin needs to stop this guy.Please tell whoever you know about this user messing with the images of Pope Benedict.I've already reported it as vandalism in progress.Thanks for your help! - Husnock 03:50, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I won't change it again, but I still disagree with "His Holiness".People address George_W._Bush as "Mr. President..." -- however that's not how the page starts.It also doesn't start with "President..."It starts with "George Bush, blah blah President."I think something similar would be appropriate here. Quasipalm 05:49, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Hey...is this the same Rangeley from BoR? This is Y2A. It's really is a small internet. Jersey Devil 07:59, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
I'm watching that page and I think your edits are good. Merecat 04:39, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
Thanks, its getting rather annoying (along with the Iraq War article). I wish there was a way to lock just that portion so people would stop messing with it. Rangeley 05:41, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
Yea, he has made 4 edits that were all reverted in the article so far. Rangeley 05:49, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
I wanted to drop in and say your reasoning persuaded me to do furthur research and I came across the actual resolution through a website THOMAS: Librabry of Congress from there you can look up"H.J.Res.114 - Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002 (Enrolled as Agreed to or Passed by Both House and Senate)" The terminology "War on Terror" is used 2x in the document. I have since changed my vote without removing the old one, not sure if I should. Just stated I changed the vote from the one below. I do not agree politically with it, but factually you were indeed correct. -- Zer0faults 22:52, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
Thank you, and rather then remove your first vote, just strike it out, I dont know how to show the code without it striking something out, so just edit this post to get it that way.
Rangeley 22:56, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
Please refrain from removing content from Wikipedia, as you did to 2003 invasion of Iraq. It is considered vandalism. If you want to experiment, please use the sandbox. Thank you. Imroy 02:54, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
If you haven't done so yet, please go to: Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Merecat right away and add your perspective. Merecat 17:57, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
Please go here: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rationales to impeach George W. Bush (2nd nomination). I voted for delete. You may also want to (if that's your preference). Merecat 08:25, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
Removing NPOV tags is a gross offense of wikipedia policy. As are your repeated personal attacks. Stop immediately. De mortuis... 01:37, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
Removing of the NPOV tag was unintentional, I was restoring content that was removed (from an old version) and did not think to add the tag. For this I apologize, however, I do not beleive I have ever personally attacked you or anyone else. If I have, please show me where so I can adjust my behavior. Rangeley 01:40, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
No consensus has been reached, because the debate has not concluded. And remember, Wikipedia is not a Democracy. A consensus is not the results of a poll. Further, Wikipedia is not a battleground. You appear to be attempting to intimidate me because we disagree. I have come to this conclusion by your general attitude towards me, but I may be mistaken. Either way, I think we could both get farther if you lightened up a bit, perhaps not saying my every word is innuendo like De Mortuis did. I know what innuendo is, and this is not innuendo. To answer your final question, no, I do not use IP's to duplicate my edits. Rangeley 16:27, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
I do not beleive you or anyone here to be stupid, however I do beleive that Wikipedia is meant to represent the truth. When a large group of people is working to silence this truth, this is no reason to give in. I do not beleive you stupid, but merely wrong on this contested issue. Rangeley 16:36, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
Indeed, it says no more than 3 a day, something I have tried to keep track of throughout this entire time. Rangeley 16:53, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
That is a mischaracterization to begin with. If everyone reverted 3 times a day edits that were done without base, we could have likely prevented the John Seigenthaler scandal - which came from a lack of reverting a false edit. There is no consensus in this issue. A preliminary poll, even when concluded, is not a consensus. This poll is not even finished. Consensus? Hardly. Rangeley 17:10, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
Those who are right should never give up merely because the side that is incorrect has, at this time, more people. Obviously if everyone merely assumed themselves right, we would get nowhere. But I am not merely assuming I am right. After debating for such a long time, I am more sure than ever that it is a part of the campaign. Can you say the same? Are you more sure than ever that it was not started as part of this campaign, or are you just banking on the fact that you have more people on your side? Rangeley 17:35, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
But its POV just the same, no? Again, dont muddy the issue. It has been agreed that the Iraq War is part of the campaign, no disputing this. The press, and a majority of english speaking individuals refer to this conflict as the War on Terror. Iraq War = Part of Campaign. Campaign = War on Terrorism. Therefore, Iraq War = Part of War on Terrorism. Its simple logic. Rangeley 02:17, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
Stop it! Añoranza 23:19, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
I was under the assumption that vandalism was not helpful. I know you have an issue with the term. But here is your problem. 1. No consensus exists stating that the Waziristan War is not part of the war on terror, in fact, your own argument in previous places, that the War on Terror is against Al Qaeda and the Taliban, should make it clearer than anything in your mind that it is indeed a part of it. 2. Questions of POV go on the article in question, not everwhere else. For instance, if the article on George W. Bush were of questionable POV, such template would be placed on the article itself. Not in every article linking to it as something in (parenthesis).
I couldnt easilly fit that in a summary, but I thank you for coming to me so that now we are both on the same page. Rangeley 01:21, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
Indeed it is not vandalism to place an NPOV notice on the page itself. But putting it in parenthesis after it is linked to is vandalism. Rangeley 01:54, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
Thats not what I said you should do. An NPOV tag should be placed at the War on Terrorism page as thats the article in question. But just like we dont say George W. Bush (this article is locked due to vandalism) or Thursday (this article is featured), we do not put (this term's neutrality is disputed) after any disputed term when it is linked to. Rangeley 02:38, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
Please spreading dirty lies that Referendum won,because it far from over unofficial results vary from 54-46 to 55.5-44.5but it seems like croocked dirty independists failed,so please dont be saying its over until 10 am when we will get official results.Thank you very much Dzoni
I know that this is obviously a personal issue for many people, and I have reverted several edits made by those stating that they are now independant. However, this is not because I beleive the projections to be wrong, but instead because regardless of whether it has won or not, the two nations will remain together until they officially seperate. When and if this happens, that is when we should state Montenegro as its own nation. So again, if I have offended anyone it was completely unintentional. Rangeley 03:37, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
The reason I spoke to you is this sentence :"Likewise, while this referendum has been won by the independence movement, it has not yet been put into action."
I just wanted to point out to you that "this referendum has not been won" and with Gods will,if results stay as they are,referendum lost,but your sentence presumed its all over and thats why I spoke to you.You should be carefull,because just a couple of words can offend people.Thank you Dzoni
Although I feel multi-ethnic states and unity are preferable to division amongst ethnic lines I also acknowledge that people have to be pragmatic and take things as relevant to the situation they face. Western Sahara and Kurdistan are currently based in oppresive areas where the people are punished and would be better protected if independent yet this is not the case for Serbia and Montenegro. Ultimately my dream would be to see the world unified in one state but I accept that is extremely unlikely and at the moment I look at things in relative terms. Horses In The Sky talk contributions
Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/United States
Cast your vote! The more responses, the more chances the article will improve and maybe pass the nomination.-- Ryz05 t 01:29, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
Hi,
Thank you for supporting the recent FAC of United States, but unfortunately it failed to pass. However, I hope you will vote again in the future. In the mean time, please accept this Mooncake as a token of my gratitude.-- Ryz05 t 15:45, 11 June 2006 (UTC)Did not want to edit the WOT page while you seemed to be on vacation. I see you have been made aware of the situation with Anoranza, I have a RfC open against me now, one filed after the AN/I post I see you found. Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Zer0faults If you do not want to get involved I completely understand as things have escalated since you were last editing, even Nescio is choosing not to get involved. -- zero faults |sockpuppets| 01:46, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure why it would be doing that.You might have more luck asking on IRC or the help desk, since there are probably some more technically-skilled people there. -- tomf688 ( talk - email) 19:12, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the heads up. Rmt2m 16:32, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
You should be careful posting identical messages to lots of talk pages about "votes".First of all, we don't have votes here, and it's not very cool to encourage the idea that we do.Secondly, people get blocked for what we call "Internal spamming" regularly.Please don't try to sway the appearance of consensus by inviting groups of people with a certain POV to discussions. - GTBacchus( talk) 00:17, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Alright. I will stop, and I myself have stated before that a numerical majority is not a consensus. I am however interested in getting the strongest arguments possible on an issue, in hopes of finally ending the debate. Rangeley 00:18, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
I will post something about it at the Village Pump now. Rangeley 00:29, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
There, all are replaced with " Wikipedia:WOT has opened its straw poll, and is open to discussion," a vaguely more accurate description. Rangeley 01:02, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
It may not be harmful to put all of the discussion on the talk page, will keep voting page cleaner and allow for more open discussion in that location. Will also remove Hipocrites accusations that its a political discussino as talk pages are not under WP:V WP:NPOV etc. -- zero faults |sockpuppets| 15:32, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Just wondering why you took out the "US wounded" number and then changed your mind. Right now I'm of the mind to keep the wounded number out until/unless we find wounded numbers for all groups. Just curious about your change in tack. Publicus 16:02, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
My objection was it not being a standard in other wars infoboxes to show wounded. After I realized it was in other infoboxes, I reverted my edit. Since Im in several large debates already ( Wikipedia talk:WOT), I just wanted to limit the amount of things I would have to check and respond to, being a lazy person that I am. So my reversion is not because I think it should be placed there, but instead that my original basis for removing it was shown to be wrong. Rangeley 16:06, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
You should consider this your final warning. Do not disrupt Wikipedia to prove a point, like you did here. It is a violation of our policies, and can result in a block. Thank you. Hipocrite - «Talk» 18:15, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
I did not disrupt Wikipedia to prove a point, you linked to a page in the infobox that was irrelevant and should not have been placed there. I would ask you not to threaten me with being banned without base again, or you yourself may be seen as disrupting wikipedia. Rangeley 18:20, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Rangeley, I know you didn't delete my reply on purpose - you were clearly doing a major overhaul of some kind at the time.I really didn't mean anything more threatening than "let's all be careful" in my edit summary. - GTBacchus( talk) 21:48, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Thanks, thats good to know. Also, can anything be done about Nomen Nescio's editing? He keeps changing the points at the start of the article to misrepresent what it is addressing. [25] [26] [27] [28] [29] [30] [31] Rangeley 21:50, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
I just posted my list of preferences of how to handle the name. Rangeley 22:30, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Kizzle then wanted to call it The Bush Administrations Global War on Terrorism, but I said this doesnt represent the fact that Bush and his cabinet is not the only party involved. I asked if Kizzle would accept the Global/Overview compromise, and didnt get a response yet. So, didnt really get anywhere. Rangeley 16:06, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Hi, I've been caught up in other stuff and missed most of the above thread.I think the best way to demonstrate that you've got consensus is to edit the page, and it sticks.It's not really necessary to say any magic words or cut a ribbon with a pair of golden scissors or something.Here's one thing to do, though: start a clean section at the talk page of Iraq War.State really clearly what edit you feel the consensus has settled on.Allow people one last chance to comment about that particular edit.A good way to anticipate any objections is to already have the discussion in the text about the problems inherent in using the name "The War on Terrorism" while talking about the Iraq War.If this really is the solution that most or all of us can agree upon, that should be apparent.Who's the main objector at this point - Nescio?I could have a word with him, too, if you think that might help get us all on the same page... - GTBacchus( talk) 00:39, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Yes, he has been the most vocal opponent in discussion, and it would be quite helpful if you spoke with him. Rangeley 00:58, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Alright, I didnt know what that source was, since the original 55,000 number was added by me from the source I put up. Rangeley 14:35, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
I've left a note on Nescio's talk page, and I'm looking forward to chatting with him.So, are you guys starting a WikiProject on the War on Terrorism?Can I help?I'm a bit interested in political WikiProjects just now - they seem like a better way to network than by user category. - GTBacchus( talk) 16:00, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
I intended to, and made one [33]. However, it seems that Kirill Lokshin opposes it [34], and I am just so tired of people thinking I am out to cause trouble that I dont want to even defend it. Rangeley 16:02, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, right?How much mileage can we get out of the quotation marks trick?Here, check this out:
Ok, so there's a category tree, rooted at "Anti-Terrorism policy of the United States.This area of Wikipedia is clearly a mess.The really obvious problems, evident before looking at any articles, are in the category structure, how there are categories that are parents of their own siblings - that's not right.Anyway, for a WikiProject, I'd suggest first defining its scope.Just which of these categories would you include in your projects purview, and which ones would you leave out? - GTBacchus( talk) 16:31, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Because it isnt strictly the US, its the whole "War on Terrorism." Rangeley 16:52, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
What about "Anti-Terrorism Policy" in general? So long as this can include people who are infact terrorists, or events that are terrorist attacks, Id be fine with it. This would be better suited out of the military history umbrella though. Rangeley 16:57, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Yes, that sounds good. Rangeley 17:08, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Sure, can I just move the current project there, or is there some official way I have to go about it? Rangeley 17:15, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Yea, my category spamming days have ended. As only 2 people are in the project so far, I cant imagine there are any more than that watching it. You are also invited into it if you are interested. Rangeley 17:25, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Its just a way to organize efforts into cleaning up the area of terrorism and counter terrorism, including the war on terrorism campaign. Its the same project as before, only with a title that is less likely to cause problems. Rangeley 18:17, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
You might want to comment here; suffice it to say there are a number of questions about this putative group that need rather immediate answering. Kirill Lokshin 14:58, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
I have decided to no longer reply to this user anymore so he can cease his persecution claims. If I see something wrong, I will alert the user and not comment directly. I am tired of his antics of running to AN/I instead of discussing the situation with the community. I feel this users political opinion out weighs their ability to reach a concensus as whenever asked what would he be willing to accept or what he is asking for in return etc, he just responds that he is right and no matter how many people disagree with him, it doesnt matter. I leave you alone in your dealings with him, as I do not need the Wikidrama after all that happened with Anoranza. I have asked him to not reply to me, and in turn I will not reply to him. -- zero faults |sockpuppets| 18:39, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
I'd try to get more people to view the situation.I'm actually moving to another city this afternoon, and I won't be online as much as usual for a few days.Rather crummy timing, in this case.I do think that Nescio and Rkrichbaum have complaints that are more substantial than you might be recognizing.It's not remotely an open-and-shut issue.I have a lot of sympathy with arguments on both sides of this one.
Remember that dispute resolution offers several options, including Article Requests for Comment - have you tried one of those yet?If that fails, there's Requests for Mediation.I'll check in when I can. - GTBacchus( talk) 23:54, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
I was notified about that discussion, so I didn't have the chance to give my opinion. With all due respect, I'll follow what was said in each articles talk page. Esaborio 02:25, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
I posted links to the discussion in every topic it was related to, including the tempates talk page [35]. If you did not participate I am sorry, however the consensus can still be talked about, and I have indeed invited you to do so. Rangeley 02:27, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
You posted the links AFTER the "consensus" was reached, therefore, I couldn't participate. Esaborio 03:06, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
Hi,
For centralizing purposes, I have replied on my talk page.Best wishes, Xoloz 12:08, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
All right, I'll stick to the current version of the WOT template. Esaborio 02:03, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
Yes, I feel the original version was more accurate. Esaborio 05:55, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
Yes, that is correct. Rangeley 01:29, 21 June 2006 (UTC) What is correct?
I still have a problem with putting this in the title. I do understand though that this is a US-defined term--so if we have to use this Republican rhetorical device, can we at least label it "Part of the U.S. War on Terrorism" since that a better descriptor of the conflict.Publicus 13:24, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Clearly the consensus is still not found. Feel free to await the RFCF and what others, beside you, Zero and me, think of it. Nomen NescioGnothi seauton 18:43, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
I recommend you read the first two paragraphs (by me and GTBacchus), they explain why
After discussing the relationship between the Iraq War and the War on Terrorism, we have reached a consensus over how do deal with this at Wikipedia. As the "War on Terrorism" is a specific, defined campaign, waged by the USA and its allies, they have full ability to define it, and carry it out as they choose.
Hur? I edited the article called 2003 Invasion of Iraq.
Apparently you missed my goodbye, so I say it again. Don't bother addressing me because I have left this debate. Let me explain why. There started a debate whether the Iraq war is part of WOT and if it should say so in the infobox. You stated your case why you think it should. Many others told you why you were wrong. Your response? Simply restate the same argument. Again people correct you. Even 2 polls showed the majority was against having a controversial statement in the infobox. What do you do? Restate the same argument. Well 10 years, 5 films, and 7 novels later all those opposing your view have left and miraculously your POV is presented in this paragraph as consensus. No my friend, wearing out those with opposing views by ignoring every single argument they advance why you are wrong so they no longer wish to take part in any discussion with you is not consensus. It is reaching a POV statement through pestering away other views. Exactly why I stop, the fact you have the gall to present your POV as consensus says it all. Goodbye and feel delighted you get to make this article POV by being the most stubborn of all. Even more than I. Nomen NescioGnothi seauton 00:44, 23 June 2006 (UTC) Is the "War on Terrorism" a proper noun? If so, who created it? What dictates what is within the realm of the proper noun "War on Terrorism"? --kizzle 05:55, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
Why don't you check Religious War instead? Better read English with open mind!! Good luck!!! Larry Lawrence 23:13, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
Do not comment on my talk page. You clearly fail to understand that selfproclaimed consensus is bad form. Especially since you POV has been heavily critized and called POV pushing on the same page you claim shows consensus. If you are capable to discuss facts and leave the monologues out of it others would appreciate that. I have already stated I refuse to continue talking to you since all you are interested in is blatant POV pushing. Nomen Nescio Gnothi seauton 13:03, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Rangeley,
I\'m sorry that I was unable to contribute to the poll (Wikipedia:WOT), however I\'ve been inactive a bit lately, and don\'t use wikipedia as much as I once did, even \"active\". Chooserr 18:45, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Thats fine, we reached a consensus on the issue here: [36] which you are welcome to comment on. Rangeley 18:46, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
I thought you had looked at this already— Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.9.105.18 ( talk • contribs)
Hello, there's been some discussion about Operation Summer Rain vs. Operation Summer Rains at Operation Summer Rain. Since you previously expressed interested in this issue, I'd like to get your opinion again, since it's come up again.It may be worth checking newspapers again, since my research indicates they're about 50-50 on usage. Thanks. WilyD 16:27, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
Not sure if you seen that post on the talk page of the wikiproject we have been working on. Let me know what you think of it, it seems pretty organized and maybe a combined effort between the groups merging can help speed up its progression. -- zero faults |sockpuppets| 16:43, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
What do you think about the WOT and NATO? Am I overdoing it? Nescio thinks NATO should not be noted, however I disagree with him. He removed the template for WOT from the NATO page on the basis that NATO is not involved with enough operations. However I noted they are involved with OEF-HOA OEF-A and Operation Active Endeavor. What is your opinion, you seem to give good advice. -- zero faults |sockpuppets| 01:06, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
We can now conclude that the both of you insist WOT is not a US but a NATO campaign. That is allright with me, but if it is a NATO campaign Bush no longer has the last word on what is part of that campaign. Therefore the discussions in which you claimed authority since Bush said so, are null and void since Bush does not get to say anything. Further teaming up is not entirely civil behaviour. Nomen Nescio Gnothi seauton 01:31, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
Either restore all my deleted comments or leave it. As it is a large part of what I wrote disappeared, is repeatedly deleted, and even my comments on that are reverted by you. At best you are uncivil at worst you are harrassing me and I demand you stop this. Either allow all my comments or allow my protest to the blatant manipulation! Nomen Nescio Gnothi seauton 12:57, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
Do not repeat your arguments but read the numerous comments explaining this is POV. Have you removed your comment? If you deny me the right to place comments and repeatedly delete them I will be forced to make yet another edit out of protest. Even the last edit was manipulated by you. Why do you get to censor other peoples view? Is this not exactly why many said on the page it was a POV pushing poll? Nomen Nescio Gnothi seauton 14:38, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
We may have an opportunity to put this all to rest with Nescio. He is seeking mediation and maybe a cool headed 3rd party can help end all of this for once. Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2006-07-05 Wikipedia:WOT -- zero faults |sockpuppets| 20:46, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
Of course there is. An unnecessarily long reference to the Iraq War. Esaborio 02:53, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Yes, I do. I do not support proven lies. Esaborio 03:00, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
What is a lie is that it IS part of the War on Terrorism. The rest in misinformation. Esaborio 03:05, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
That is a US resolution, not a UN Security Council one, so of course it says what the US Government wants it to say: lies. Esaborio 03:18, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Yes, the truth. Esaborio 03:27, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
A Government can lie to make a campaign seem to fit in with another, unrelated one. Have you read the "Project for the New American Century"? I have. The Iraq War was planned years ago. Esaborio 03:34, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Absolutely. In what you described in your "hypothetical situation", unlike what happens with the War on Terrorism and the Iraq War, both programs refer to the same problem: poverty, whereas those two wars do not refer to terrorism. Only the first one does. The other is about money, or in toppling a dictator, at best. Esaborio 03:59, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
No, it is also against regimes who refuse to hand over terrorists that they harbour, when they are asked to, like the Taliban did. Esaborio 04:23, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Irrelevant?! How convenient! That way the US can continue to lie to the world and attack other countries just for economic interests, no matter if their motives are proven to be lies. So basically you are saying that the War on Terrorism is a "blank check" for the US Government, right? Esaborio 04:41, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
"We should recognize them as a part of the campaign because they are." Great argument... They are not, because the War on Terrorism is against terrorist organizations and regimes that refuse to hand terrorists over to proper authorities, and the Iraq War was against a regime that didn't refuse to hand over any terrorists. Esaborio 04:58, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
And what terrorist groups was the US supposed to stop by invading Iraq? And when was Saddam asked to stop sponsoring terrorism, as the Taliban were? That is no War on Terrorism, that is an aggression war, since Iraq had done nothing to the US, neither directly nor indirectly. Esaborio 05:11, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
The US does not have the authority to attack any state it conveniently considers to be a sponsor of terrorism. It requires a resolution by the UN Security Council to do so, as was the case with Afghanistan. Esaborio 05:24, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
It was begun based on lies, to make it look like it was part of the War on Terrorism. Ironically, it IS terrorism itself: state terrorism. Esaborio 05:38, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
What is a lie is that they were fighting terrorism, no matter what campaign it is said to be part of by the war hawks in Washington. And how can it be part of the War on Terrorism if the victims of the war are not sponsors of terrorism? That doesn't make any sense! It is like saying you are fighting drugs lords by killing cookie makers, because you see them as drug lords! Esaborio 05:54, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
"It is because the US says so". That is your only argument. If it didn't begin to fight terrorists there, nor did it begin to fight a regime for harboring terrorists, by logic it CANNOT be part of a War on Terrorism. Esaborio 06:11, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
No, I just don't know of any proofs presented by the US to back that claim. Esaborio 06:19, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
It does matter, because a war against innocent people isn't a War on Terrorism, it IS terrorism. The US shouldn't attack without any proof of links to terrorism. Esaborio 06:28, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
How can the inexistence of links to terrorism be irrelevant for a War on TERRORISM?! The term looses all of its meaning if you fight something that isn't terrorism under in its name. Esaborio 06:38, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
And where are it's proofs? Esaborio 06:52, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
So it is a war against anyone the US doesn't like, right? It is not about terrorism at all now... Esaborio 07:00, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
For considering Iraq a state sponsor of terror. Esaborio 07:02, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
As I said before, then it is a war against anyone the US doesn't like. Your example is absurd, because beauty is subjective, while being a terrorist is objective. To call someone a terrorist you must back up your words with facts. Esaborio 07:17, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
No, being objective, there are two different campaings: one against terrorists in some places, and another which began against innocent people in Iraq. Esaborio 07:28, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
That is no proof it sponsored terrorism. Esaborio 07:34, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Based on lies... Esaborio 07:39, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
It matters, because logic dictates you can't fight one thing in the name of fighting another. Otherwise, this fight looses it's meaning. Esaborio 07:48, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Most of the world was involved in some way in both World Wars, in the Cold War the US and the USSR never fought, and the War of 1812 began that year, hence their names. And there was no way they could have known during World War I that it wasn't going to end all wars. On the other hand, the US had the resources to find out before beginning the War on Terrorism which countries supported terrorism, via REAL intelligence. Esaborio 07:59, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Unlike the case here, because since the beginning they knew who was sponsoring terrorism and who wasn't. The US shoudn't label a campaign as part of the War on Terrorism when there is no evidence whatsoever of sponsorship of terrorism. Esaborio 08:09, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
That is a no, indeed. Esaborio 08:11, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Not without sufficient proofs. It is relevant because they never proved their sponsorship of terrorism. And what I admitted is that US lied about the issue. Esaborio 05:51, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
No, they lied about saying it sponsored terrorism. A War on Terrorism should be fought against terrorist organizations and proven terrorist-sponsoring states. It was never proven that Iraq sponsored terrorism, the US just said it did, to justify their aggression. Where is their evidence? Esaborio 04:54, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
I never addressed it?! Please see above. Esaborio 06:07, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
See my 04:54, 8 July 2006 reply. Esaborio 06:14, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
Then read it again and again until you understand it. And stop wasting my time! Esaborio 06:28, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
I answered your two "legitimate questions", and I explained why I removed that information after your revert, yet you keep asking. THAT is making me waste my time. Esaborio 06:34, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
STOP WASTING MY TIME! I told you to read my answer until you get it, and if you don't, too bad! Esaborio 06:40, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
No, what you don't understand is my answer, so I'll say this again: READ IT AND READ IT AND READ IT! Esaborio 06:48, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
Sorry if you don't get (or just don't like) my answer, but I won't waste my time repeating myself. Esaborio 06:58, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
What is really ludicrous is your interpretations ofmy answers. I haven't admitted such a thing, and never will, because I despise lies. The only thing you are right about is that the dabate is over. Esaborio 07:06, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
What is a lie? Read my answers again, dammit! Esaborio 07:09, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
Read my answers again...! Esaborio 07:14, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
Read my answers again... Esaborio 07:26, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
the source for the dead is in the article. However, wounded is imposible to varyfy and it is a low estimate.-- Spoil29 17:47, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
IN THE MEDIATION CABAL; Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2006-07-05 Wikipedia:WOT
After review of the case notes, the messages, the page itself, and the comments from Nescio quoted below, we have decided that the best course of action is to refer this matter to administrators for review.
User conduct disputes, specifically ones that require or seek enforcement action, are not within our perview.We cannot make a blanket decision to revert deleted comments at the page in question, nor can we "grant the right to remove" anything from an article or talk page or generally enforce any action taken against undesirable user behavior as we are an informal group of mediators acting for the benefit of the encyclopedia.
The case is remanded to administrators for review. CQJ 06:07, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
The Prophet Wiz ard of the Cray on Cake has offered to assist in the matter further if necessary.Please contact him directly should you require his assistance. CQJ 06:29, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
I replaced it with Arab-Israeli conflict because 2006 Arab-Israeli War is up for deletion, as no such event exists. See the talk on the page for more details, but essentially, we can't create that name if there is little or no usage in the mainstream press. Cheers, Tewfik Talk 20:31, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
![]() |
The Current Events Barnstar | |
I hereby grant you this barnstar for your diligent editorial work on all of the articles concerning the
2006 Arab-Israeli War. Pifactorial 22:13, 13 July 2006 (UTC) |
Thanks! Rangeley 01:00, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
Hi.I would like to assume good faith.But your use of HTML comments on image uploads, as in this image, looks very much like an attempt to foil our image cleanup bots.It may be true that a "fair use" defense against copyright infringement would work for this and other images you have uploaded, but we need a real fair use rationale for each one, not a HTML comment.See Wikipedia:Image description page for what Wikipedia expects from a "fair use rationale", and Wikipedia:Fair use criteria for the handling of unfree content at Wikipedia. Jkelly 00:51, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
The page does not currently meet wikipedia standards.It is both too long and far too POV to be considered a quality article.I have been working on a rewrite but have encountered resistance from an editor who does not like the "POV shift" of my rewrite.You can read the latest version (draft) of the rewrite on my sandbox. [39]The article Talk page discusses several of the issues.I have invited two people to act as informal mediators.One of them was chased off by the intransigent editor who opposes the POV shift. The second editor said he thought the debate "was dead in the water."That is hardly the position needed for someone to act as a mediator.I would appreciate you taking a look. RonCram 04:01, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Nescio Dropping this on your page to review as you were involved in the disputes. -- zero faults |sockpuppets| 13:53, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
My edit and the summary was intended for the "Donald Ferrone" thing, and your edit got inadvertently caught in the middle. Sorry about that. Zocky | picture popups 06:21, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
I was about to self revert Zeq 07:41, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
Any claim of POV here is ridiculous, a point which you've made sufficiently clear in extensive discussion on talk. While it may be more relevant to have a slightly more active picture, being as we have no access to one at the moment, this is certainly a good choice. Keep up the good work, Tewfik Talk 16:52, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
Could you please add your further comment at 2006_Israel-Lebanon_crisis#I.27ve_added_Iran. I'm about to add Iran back, but I want your opinion first Hello32020 17:01, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
Link is actually Talk:2006_Israel-Lebanon_crisis#I.27ve_added_Iran.
This is my resposne to you both in my talk page and in the talk page of the 2006 Lebanon-Israel crisis.
"Rangley, others have said and I agree: you have displayed a lack of good faith and have an attitude. For example, you seem to have misread me. In my original message I argued not about NPOV, which is next to impossible to achieve in a picture (unless we do a composite which is ugly), but for newsworthyness. My message is there for all to read. What I didn't like about the 3 binocular picture is that it is a propaganda picture with no news value at all, besides being bland and boring. Its three guys with binos, nothing special. Now the current picture with the IDF artillery piece its a better one, but I hope we can find something more human, or that conveys the human aspect of warfare better. That is my sole arguement, and you are setting a strawman by arguing against something I havent argued for.--Cerejota 20:51, 16 July 2006 (UTC) "
I never argued pictures had to be NPOV. Learn to read and have some more good faith. -- Cerejota 20:54, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
I noticed you reverted this page with the edit summary "revert vandalism".I don't think the other user's edits qualify as vandalism, since vandalism is editing that's done with the intention of reducing the quality of the article, and the other person made that edit because he believes the article is better the other way.He may be wrong, but this is a content dispute, not a case of vandalism.It's important to civility not to simply label edits you disagree with as vandalism.-- Mr. Billion 21:15, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
That's an interesting story, but a key distinction is that the person you mention was (I assume) not supposed to paint that mural, and did so without the building owner's permission.Randomly repainting buildings is generally illegal.Editing Wikipedia articles is not.
Review
Wikipedia: Vandalism."Vandalism is any addition, deletion, or change to content made in a deliberate attempt to reduce the quality of the encyclopedia."Simply making edits with which you disagree is not vandalism.Please don't use the phrase "vandalism" to denigrate people with whom you disagree. --
Mr. Billion
All right, thanks. -- Mr. Billion 00:42, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
I was trying to remove the double citation of "CNN4" from the "casualties2" section of the template and was met with the whole thing coming apart. Want to take a look and see if you have better luck? Thanks, Tewfik Talk 21:46, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
Also, check this diff - I'm not sure what happened but it look like content got cut off... Tewfik Talk 21:56, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
it's is not active participant in conflict.nor has any direct role in in suppling the hezbollah with arms.
i noticed you put the pov tag on the article.could you please participate in the ongoing debate about a rewrite.your input could be valuable. thanks. Anthonymendoza 21:10, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
Apparently mediation does not improve the current conflict I have with this user. Since I am at my wits end I have filed a case at ArbCom. This is to notify you should you wish to comment there. Nomen Nescio Gnothi seauton 11:05, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
Hello,
An Arbitration case in which you commented has been opened: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Zer0faults.Please add evidence to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Zer0faults/Evidence.You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Zer0faults/Workshop.
On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, -- Tony Sidaway 10:39, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
This picture is POV because it shows only Israeli attack and not Hezbollah-- Shrike 16:53, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
So why not post Hizballah katuasha launchers?-- Shrike 11:49, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
Hello. See here: [40]. Esaborio 22:15, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
Why do you ask questions you already know the answers for? Remeber this discussion: [41]?
No, you failed to understand reasons. I have already explained my motives, sorry if you just don't like them for being biassed. And what "unwillingness" are you talking about? I explained countless times to you what you have asked answers for. Again, sorry if you don't like them, but they are here: [42]. Esaborio 22:35, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
I have explained it to you countless times. I am sorry if you "fail to understand" my explanations. Your atttitude just shows how biassed you are on the issue. Esaborio 22:43, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
Like this: [43]? Esaborio 22:47, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
Denying my explanation won't make it dissapear, so stop your childish behavior try to understand them instead of just pretending they aren't there. Esaborio 22:55, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
Ok, but it will be the last time: "And how can it be part of the War on Terrorism if the victims of the war are not sponsors of terrorism? That doesn't make any sense! It is like saying you are fighting drugs lords by killing cookie makers, because you see them as drug lords!" I posted that on 6 July 2006, at 05:54. Esaborio 23:04, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
See above. Their definition can't be based on nothing. Esaborio 23:20, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
My answer is there, you just don't like it. You are completely biassed... Esaborio 23:28, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
No, it is the dictionary's. Esaborio 23:30, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
I did provide it time and again, but since instead of (trying to) refute it you are unwilling to admit that I provided an explanation, I just won't waste my time playing your games anymore. Good bye. Esaborio 23:36, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
Blindly reverting with the intent of making the encyclopedia is not vandalism. On the other hand, transcluded sigs are expressly banned by WP:SIG. Hipocrite - «Talk» 19:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for pointing that out, wasnt aware there was a different signature policy than Uncyclopedia. As far as blind reverting goes, I guess you must be right, its a good policy. ~ Rangeley ( talk) 19:35, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
Rangeley, History21, would either of you be interested in joining an RFC regarding Hipocrite's recent edits?(I've drafted one here).I don't want to start a big confrontation with Hipocrite, who I'm sure is a fine editor, but I find his reversions troubling.Thanks, TheronJ 21:17, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
Rangeley, History21, TruthCrusader:
FYI, I've named you all as parties who attempted to resolve the issues raised at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Hipocrite.
Thanks, TheronJ 22:20, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
See this, this, and this. rootology ( T) 00:33, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for uploading Image:54995.jpg. The image has been identified as not specifying the source and creator of the image, which is required by Wikipedia's policy on images.If you don't indicate the source and creator of the image on the image's description page, it may be deleted some time in the next seven days.If you have uploaded other images, please verify that you have provided source information for them as well.
For more information on using images, see the following pages:
This is an automated notice by OrphanBot.For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. 07:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
Thank you for taking the time to upload the photo of "Downtown SJ". Unfortunately, there is an ongoing debate on the discussion page for the Saint John article on the size and content of the SJ article. This photo is not helpful. I am removing it. Please understand. If you have any comments, see the SJ talk page. Thanks. DDD DDD 03:13, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
Did not see the vacation tag at the top. Just noticed you popping up on my watchlist, welcome back. -- zero faults |sockpuppets| 17:32, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
Based on discussions with TomTheHand I don't think that Larry Lawrence is an actual sockpuppet of Copperchair. However, I have created a CheckUser request to check on Larry and his multitude of sockpuppets. I'll go ahead and add Kevin Taylor to the queue. Thanks! -- Bobblehead 20:42, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
polls closed at 8 am cst. Those votes are past that time. -- Zonerocks 17:04, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
Wouldn't it be considered a new conflict or new operation if fightining later resumes though? -- GoOdCoNtEnT 21:30, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
![]() |
The Original Barnstar | |
This slightly late Barnstar is awarded to you for your great work in redoing the War on Terrorism article, Thank you for your great contributions to Wikipedia. -- zero faults |sockpuppets| 12:45, 16 August 2006 (UTC) |
Glad for helping at the Afghan articles. Now, take a look at my new Dagestan War article: any suggestions, linkings would be greatly appreciated. -- TheFEARgod 21:45, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
Why did you change my screenshot for Uncyclopedia?-- Selmo 04:41, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
I do not know how to setup sockpuppet checks, but User:Don't fear the Reaper made the same edits, adding future to WW3, reverting the template etc. removing Iraq from WOT related article and the WOT:Allies page. -- zero faults |sockpuppets| 12:25, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
Per your comments on my talk page, I have tagged these images for deletion.Also, please see my reply there - I tried to give a good explanation of fair use philosophy on Wikipedia. BigDT 20:11, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
I just wanted to thank you for sticking up for me. In all this craziness, its reassuring to know that editors who may disagree on certain issues can still step back from the debate as colleagues. Again, I'm extremely appreciative of your actions, and I'm glad to have worked with you on this article. Cheers, Tewfik Talk 07:29, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
I know it may sound ridiculous, but i saw this map u created. if u ever think of updating or fixing it, pls include Crete in Greece as well:). Thanks -- Hectorian 22:04, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
Sorry for not responding to the message you left on my talk.I've been on kind of a Wikibreak lately, as I've been swamped with real-life work.Anyway, I agree with you that that IP's edits are suspicious.However, it hasn't been active lately (though it was when you left me the message), and I'd probably want more evidence to block an IP than I would to block a user name.I'm still a newbie admin and I want to be careful.Please continue to keep an eye out for Copperchair and let me know what you see. TomTheHand 15:16, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
How did this guy ever become an administrator? He obviously is exerting bias.I put in something with an academic reference and he took it down with only a "yea, right" comment in the edit box. Pretty ungentlemanly for an admin. Dogru144 18:13, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
Can you please explain why you removed 2 sourced entries ( here and here) from the War on Terrorism article?Both were from reliable sources and the sources seem to jive with the entry that they were associated with. In the case of the first, there was discussion on the talk page, but no consensus to remove it. I'm going to go ahead and revert your removals, please do not remove unsourced material without consensus in the future. -- Bobblehead 02:54, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
This case is now closed and the results have been published at the link above. Zer0faults is placed on Probation. He may be banned for an appropriate period of time from an article or set of articles which he disrupts by tendentious editing or edit warring. All bans to be logged at Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Zer0faults#Log of blocks and bans. For the Arbitration Committee. FloNight 02:06, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
Hi sorry to bother you but I started a new vote to have 'bill oreilly' routed directly to bill oreilly (commentator) and the current bill oreilly page made teh bill oreilly (disambiguation) page. This vote is taking place at Talk:Bill_O'Reilly#New_Vote_on_Disambiguation_page The previous vote was posted on the Cricket fan activism group to pull votes and so it seems only fair to inform people who might find it convenient to link directly to a page used more often. Mrdthree 07:36, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
Hi Rangeley,
I just noticed the Barnstar, and I wanted you to know how appreciative I am of it - especially coming from you. Different users will inevitably have different preconceptions about various issues based on their own experiences and background, and it is comforting to know that we can embrace that without letting it get in the way of building an objective, high-quality reference. Again, it was a pleasure disagreeing with you (
), and I hope to collaborate with you again in the future. Cheers,
Tewfik
Talk 15:38, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
Hi Rangeley! You're an editor I respect and I'd like to ask you about the decision to avoid the phrase "civil war" when discussing the situation in Iraq. It seems to me that refusing to lable a factional conflict in which tens of thousands of people are dying a "civil war" violates NPOV. I can find virtually no objective definition of "civil war" in the relevant literature that does not apply to such large scale sectarian violence. Of course this issue remains controversial. But I worry that adopting the "sectarian violence" label and avoding the term "civil war" is to gloss the truth in a manner that violates our community standards. Even if you supported the war (I did), that's no excuse to adopt pro-war rhetoric in the description of the current state of affairs. Anyway, I'd appreciate any thoughts you have on the matter. Benzocane 15:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
Hi Rangeley.
I can see from the links you gave me that you're having a slightly frustrating interaction with Timeshifter.I agree with you that the conversation in question is more germane in the User talk: namespace, but he seems not to want it on his talk page.Personally, I'd let that part slide.He wants the conversation to be at Talk:Iraq War, even though it isn't particularly appropriate there; whatever.Putting the comments back onto someone's talk page after they've removed them twice is going to generate more heat than light, 10 times out of 10.I'd just post a response to his comments indicating that he's incorrect, as anybody who looks into it will see.Since this is a wiki, your contributions are viewable by anyone who cares to check.I'd just post a simple factual rebuttal to his statement, and move on.You could even mention (without casting aspersions - keep it real professional, y'know) that you think the comments are in the wrong place, but that when you tried to move them, they were moved back.Then if you can refocus the conversation on the images that are actually being discussed, everybody wins... more or less.
I realize this "solution" doesn't exactly get what you want, which is that conversation moved to the right place.I just don't think that particular battle is worth your energy.
If he's a habitually difficult editor, then something like a user RfC could be appropriate, especially if multiple editors are noticing a similar problem from the same user.Like you say, though, the wiki is full of difficult people, and you can't RfC all of them.Arguing with them so seldom renders them less difficult, that it becomes essential to choose one's battles.I decided a while ago not to fight with anybody about their own talk page.
I hope that helps, and I wish you good luck. - GTBacchus( talk) 07:51, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
Hi there - long time no speak
. Palestine48's translation is pretty much accurate. The only change I would make is "Beit Hanoun in the northern Gaza Strip." Cheers,
Tewfik
Talk 07:12, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
I'll be happy to talk about my deletion nomination at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Somalian War. – Zntrip 03:09, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
I've done my best to tidy the article on Operation Autumn Clouds, which you recently started. Regards, KazakhPol 03:36, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
That really annoyed me. I cant believe they deleted the page! It's because it was in Africa. If it had been in Europe or North America it would have been "important" enough to have its own article. Jeez. KazakhPol 04:45, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
See this: 2006 Israel-Gaza conflict A user (El C I think) changed the name and blocked from moving it). Utter nonsense. Cheers-- TheFEARgod ( Ч) 15:02, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
Just wondering, if you wouldn't mind telling me, what Opperating System you are using? --TheNunOwnedGoat 05:31, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
Please participate in the talk page discussion before reinserting that Iraq is part of the War on Terror into the infobox. If you would like to cite the speech in the article text (and I'm sure you could find others), I think that its clear that the Bush Administration has frequently referred to the Iraq War as part of the War on Terrorism. However, this position is far from universally held, and, as such, is ill-suited for an infobox, which is meant to contain non-controversial information, like basic facts. savidan (talk) (e@) 23:51, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
Read the talk page on the Iraq War page; the consensus is cited by Savidian in that discussion. csloat 03:31, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
Right now, there definitely is no strong consensus that the "part of the war on terror" wording should be included in the infobox.Many people feel it violates NPOV.The two polls seem to suggest a consensus that it should be removed-- but there definitely isn't a consensus that it should be included.Discuss, keep trying to change opinions, but don't edit war by adding it back in until there is a strong consensus that it belongs there. -- Alecmconroy 04:37, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
KeeperOTD to Rangeley
I've just finished reading the endless, cyclical debate on the infobox issue of "U.S. War On Terror".Primarily, I got there by wondering what was "wrong" with the neutrality of the original article as it seemed as even handed as it could be (given the emotional and divisive pov's on all sides). History has yet to reach final verdict on this issue but for right now, Wikipedia seems to have done it's best to represent the War in Iraq.
Anyway, I agree with the reasoning for going with "U.S. War On Terror" but my reason for posting is this: well done man.
I have to say, I would have gone insane attempting to reason with people that think that Wikipedia is a Stallion built by committee and believe their pov is crucial to that committee.In some ways it is, but there is a limit to how many viewpoints can be expressed/included and which "facts" are more relevant than others.The saying about "not being able to please all of the people all of the time" should be understood by the people that seem to keep missing the point(s) (deliberately or otherwise) and just accepted that "consensus" and "compromise" are not the end all, be all of the universe.There just comes a point where a decision is reached to call an "apple" an "apple" and everybody should move on instead of ranting about what kind of apple it is or whether apple sauce should really be lumped under the "apple" article as it might "confuse people".
It's not helpful to anyone to have an infobox that says, "An Apple Or The 1,000 Other Things An Apple Is Called By The Group of Reality Impaired Peanut-gallery Elitists (or GRIPE) Who All Had A Variation or Viewpoint/Axe To Grind on the Name of this Fruit (which might not be a fruit depending on the lunacy and/or conspiracy theorist level of the person in question)..."
Wikipedia should be clear and informative but that doesn't mean worrying about (or pandering to) the "dumbest" or most easily confused reader that might wander into the virtual room.It wouldn't be practical to explain in detail of every nuance, dispute, and so on of every single sentence of every article to satisfy every single reader.Clearly, Wikipedia expects a person to either understand things at a certain level or have the assertiveness to look up the linked words/concepts/footnotes of the things they don't understand.
To wrap things back up, I think you handled the issue very well and kept your cool, even in the midst of those who were clearly arguing just to argue.I myself would have exploded and just refused to debate any further; particularly the third time you had to explain the concept of "campaign" and it's importance to the issue (which I thought was both right on the nose and the best reason for calling the "apple" an "apple").
Keep up the good work. " KeeperOTD 01:20, 23 December 2006 (UTC)"
This user is continually re-adding part of the infobox that many users have attempted to remove. If you're an admin, please do something about this. UnfairlyImbalanced 21:20, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
Rangeley, I've taken a moment to ask you to please stop re-adding the disputed text to the Iraq War page.Saying that the Iraq War is "Part of the War on Terrorism" is inappropriate for the reasons I've discussed:
Please stop re-inserting the disputed text, and do not attempt to re-insert it again until such time as a consensus of Wikipedians supports doing so. As I've said before, you've made many excellent contributions to the encyclopedia in the past, but we're at the point where if you keep re-inserting it, people are going to start trying to get you blocked from editing Wikipedia. Already, several individuals have contacted me asking for advice on how to proceed in this manner.
Please, stop.Seriously.If you keep editing against consensus, people will be forced to take whatever actions are necessary to stop you-- and that means a lot of wasted time and a lot of bad feelings for everyone.I sincerely ask you to please, just recognize that right now, the consensus is against you, and you if you want the text in the article, you need to change minds, not edit-war.
Please, don't put the text back.If you do, then I or someone else has to take the time to go and get you blocked for it, and then you won't be able to even discuss the situation, and it'll just be a giant, giant mess, and nobody wants that. -- Alecmconroy 11:43, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
You misunderstand what the War on Terrorism is. Its not a war, its not a wider conflict. Its a military campaign, ie a superop. Much like operations can contain subops, Operations themselves can be contained within a campaign. The War on Terrorism is one such campaign, and it is the official designation under which other operations have been carried out. It is not a POV that the Iraq War began under this campaign, the authorization of war specifically states that it was authorized to "prosecute the war on terrorism." ~ Rangeley ( talk) 16:07, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
Never cite majority opinion when determining what is factual. Most people do not think it is a war against terrorists, but this is a seperate issue of whether it is part of the campaign, which is indisputable. ~ Rangeley ( talk) 16:07, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
Have you read this? ~ Rangeley ( talk) 16:07, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
Have you read this? A consensus isnt reached by a majority or a super majority, and your insistence that it is violates wikipedia rules. A consensus is reached through discussion and weighing arguments, the 4 you have given are either false on the basis that they violate the rules or false on the basis that they view the War on Terrorism as a war. Please participate in discussion with valid arguments. ~ Rangeley ( talk) 16:07, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
I am very dissappointed with you. When you contacted the various people who had disagreed with me in the past, but not others, via talk pages in attempt to "stack" discussion against me I had an inkling that you didnt want to see eye to eye, but now that you have dropped all pretenses and dont even bother addressing anything I say, its good to see what this has boiled down to. Whats wrong with splitting articles and even adding "campaign" in? Anything? If not, dont just go away and pretend that you didnt just waste my time on a useless discussion, you are going to end what you began and come to a conclusion besides that of another veiled threat aimed at me. ~ Rangeley ( talk) 18:48, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
What point do you think I'm trying to make?Be careful!Better not say I want the ED article recreated, I've said several times that I don't. Milto LOL pia 03:32, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Rangely, please report any disruptive edit-warring at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RR. Tom Harrison Talk 14:01, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Are you even looking at the text you are reverting?You are removing a citation that says the Uncyclopedia logo is a parody of the Wikipedia logo, and you're restoring a self-reference, which is supposed to be avoided.Stop reverting without discussing the changes; the article doesn't have to be static, and these blind, unexplained reversions are highly disruptive. Milto LOL pia 01:36, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
You and I "wikimet" during the Iraq War/ War on Terrorism naming debate.I am seeking your help as an objective, far-removed observer of the edits made by user Jmlodal to the Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology article, starting with this one [47], through my edits, and up to the current one.Even though I am not a member of the group that has the biggest stake in this argument, I have a personal connection to this article that mitigates my ability to edit on controversial issues objectively.One might also note that the username of the other editor corresponds to the first two initials and last name of Mrs. Lodal's husband.For both of these reasons I am asking you, an objective, respected member of the community, to come in and straighten things out.Thank you. KevinPuj 04:31, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
I do not know Rangley or Mr. Puj.But I believe he says it all with his comment "I have a personal connection to this article that mitigates my ability to edit on controversial issues objectively."He inserted a misleading and irrelevent section into the subject article to persue a personal vendetta.This has no place in Wikipedia.It may well be appropriate to have a section on Elizabeth Lodal, but if so, it needs to be accurate and compete.I notice that Mr. Puj has now reverted back to his original section, ignoring all the insertions and edits made since I began this round of edits, including even the several edits he contributed that I left in.So for now, I am deleting Mr. Puj's personal vendetta section.Perhaps someone who truly is objective might write a new setion.Until then, this is not a major issue relative to TJ and the TJ article can do quite well without it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jmlodal ( talk • contribs)
I have no personal vendetta against Mrs. Lodal.I am not even a member of the group that was so insulted by her simple statement of a fact.I removed myself from editing in a responsible way, and, Mr. Lodal, I would ask you to do the same.We can discuss the changes on the talk page and have a third party decide what to do with them.I did not revert back to the original section (which I did not write, by the way, so calling it "his original section" is inaccurate).Please check the edit history.This is a major issue relative to TJ, as evidenced by the multiple, non-trivial sources that reference it. KevinPuj 15:48, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
In accordance with deciding to recuse myself from editing the section, I am unable to make a change on the Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology article. But I would appreciate it if you took a look at this edit. KevinPuj 11:48, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
Rangeley, as we have discussed many times, it is not appropriate for you to re-insert the disputed text against consensus. It has been brought to my attention that you have again re-inserted the disputed text [48].I therefore am going to begin proceedings against you, with the aim of having you blocked / banned from editing Wikipedia as a whole or Iraq War in particular.
If sometime before I lodge the complaint, you voluntarily self-revert and promise not to re-insert the text against yourself, I will accept that and will not proceed at this time.Given how many different individuals have tried to explain to you the inappropriateness of your behavior on this, however, I think that is an unlikely scenario, so I'll go ahead.
I'm sorry it's come to this.I hope you'll save us all a lot of time and hurt feelings by undoing your edit.-- Alecmconroy 01:43, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
Rangeley-- thank you again for your self-revert.I have posted a very sharply-worded discussion on the talk page re-iterating that the repeated re-insertions need to stop until there is a truly solid consensus.Let me say, however, that while I mean what I say about a willingness to request banning,I'm not actually upset or angry or even really "peeved" in any way.If we knew each other in real life, I'm sure we'd have many excellent conversations, and you might find we agree on much more than you might suspect.
People need my assistance, they have repeatedly solicited my aid, and I think a certain amount of forcefullness is necessary to resolve the situation, so I'm willing to play that role as needed-- but just known I'm not actually mad at you or anything. :).I'll still try to get you banned, of course, if you return to your old ways of reinserting the disputed text -- but I won't hate your guts or anything-- it would just mean you're a good person, just one whose participation is causing more disruption than help.(and seriously, take me up on my offer to have me reinsert it for you if htere's a strong clear consensus--- I really would do it without a second thought.)
Given how much discussion has been spent on the issue, I have to say, I think there's absolutely zero chance that you'll get a consensus on the issue.So, let me suggest to you that short of a consensus, you have one other way to get the text in--- arbitration.I can almost guarantee you that if a consensus of Wikipedians did emerge, I would file a request to have the Arbitration Committee review the situation, because it's so far from my concept of NPOV.I certainly wouldn't begrudge you the same priviledge, so... if you wanted to file a request and get a definitive ruling on whether your disputed text complies with NPOV, if they took the case, I would be happy to step through that process with you, without animosity or anything towards you for filing it.
Lastly, as I've always said-- I'm not trying to make the readers think that Iraq is not part of WOT-- I'm just trying to make the page comply with NPOV.There's nothing wrong with the readers knowing that many people call Iraq part of WOT-- we just can't have Wikipedia being one of those people.To that end, I've written a short paragraph summaring the POV on the issue-- I included the congressional authorization you've pointed me to, mentions of the president's statements.I even did my own research and dug up a strongly worded house resolution that said Iraq is part of WOT and a 2003 poll where 80% of america said Iraq is part of WOT.I hope, perhaps naively, that having a whole paragraph chock full ofexperts, world leaders, and opinion polls saying that Iraq is part of WOT will take some of the pressure off with regard to the desire to have Wikipedia say Iraq as part of WOT.-- Alecmconroy 16:18, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
What concensus?
For Inclusion:
Against
This will be my response to you when you claim a concensus is on your side. --
Nuclear
Zer0 21:09, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
It seems like in every war article, the "good guys" are in section 1, while the "bad guys" are in 2. It seems right to put the coalition into one and the terrorists into 2. — Preceding unsigned comment added by CipherPixy ( talk • contribs)
Rangeley--I'm genuinely sad to inform you that I've decided to file a Request for Arbitration against you for your behavior on Iraq War and related pages.I'm genuinely sorry that we weren't able to see eye-to-eye on this.Since this is never a pleasant process, let me take a moment to say that just because we appear to be advesaries in this limited domain, don't think that extends to me actually thinking badly of you as a person.
Let me apologize again for the "imperative" tone I've had to take lately, or the imperative tone demanded by the RFAr process.It's silly, but I want to assure you I'm in no way "mad" at you or angry with you---to the extend that I was bold and forceful, it was just because I'd hoped that maybe if I was sufficently forceful, maybe we could avoid going through this process. In the end, I was mistaken and the forcefulness didn't help-- so in the end, nothing was gained by me writing in all bold and threatening action against you.So, I'm sorry for any bad blood that may have stirred up.
In the end, the worst I can say about you is that your edits may have placed your duty to your political convinctions, your nation, your planet ahead of your duty to comply with Wikipedia policies-- and in the end, who is to say if that is even a bad thing at all. -- Alecmconroy 17:11, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
I see you tried many many middlegrounds, but circular logic will keep up the nonsense forever. If you have not noted Timeshifter has argued that terrorism cannot appear in the infobox, then says it can at the bottom. They just do not want it at the top, the arguement that WTA isnt being met is false as explained on the RfC, and even their own edits dont look to meet WTA by adding a see also for casus belli, in that case its not being explained at all who says or giving a citation. Hope they do not drive you ove rthe edge, but this is a common tactic, giving what you know the other person isnt interested in, then it always looks like you tried. The truth of the matter is neither have ever stated that its not part of WoT, so neither has given a reason why it should not be in the portion of the template where we list campaigns. Timeshifter will circle around WTA indefinatly even though TheronJ stated he is reading it wrong and that the compromise meet its requirements. So good luck. Seems they only care about admins who are taking their side, quoting Xoloz, but ignoring TheronJ. --
Nuclear
Zer0 11:38, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
I just found Wikipedia:WOT, and now I'm really confused. Tewfik Talk 17:54, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
The Resilient Barnstar
![]() |
The Resilient Barnstar | |
For being resilient in face of attacks on your viewpoint on the Iraq War subtitle debate. For resilience to honor prior agreements on the subtitle. Finally, for agreeing to a compromise position that satisfied all parties yet kept your viewpoint intact. Thanks and nicely done. Publicus 21:17, 8 February 2007 (UTC) |
Hey Rangeley are we going to add the rape accusations to operation Law and order. Top Gun. 22:42, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
That could have several different explainations. For example: Did you know that when a father gives his son his name, the complete name of both of them is the same? Esteban "Lex" Saborío 06:10, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
So palistiens officaly in civil war now. -- J intela 01:04, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
OK he was not killed in action so I put in a template for capital punishment to also be the cross/dager icon, so now when you click on the dager beside Sadam's name it will link you to the article about Capital punishment. OK?-- Top Gun 18 June 2007 (UTC)
I think you are wrong about that, because he was not killed by the "civilian" goverment. He was killed by the Shiia goverment. And Sadam's supporters and Al-Qaeda are still at war with that specific goverment. They are still going at it in the streets. There are open street battles. For God's sake what kind of a civilian goverment is it when it doesn't control more than 60 percent of its capital city. Sadam was killed by the OTHER side. When he was executed his executionars danced around his body is that what a civilian goverment does. and the men that executed him where members of the Mahdi army. One of them said long live Sadr at his execution. And nobody said that the dager icon is an icon specific only to KIA deaths it is only a death icon the main point is to which article we link that icon to the KIA article or capital punishemnt article.-- Top Gun 18 June 2007 (UTC)
As far as I know the war has NOT ended yet. And he WAS a prisoner of war, the whole tryle by a civilian court was all simple propaganda. He WAS a soldier. And, no matter how you say it, he WAS killed by one of the sides in this war, that is still going on. And by what I have seen and heard the civilian goverment you are speking of is not going to last for much longer if this keeps up, IF it ever was a REAL goverment.-- Top Gun 19 June 2007 (UTC)
why do you keep deleting the death date of Mr McMahon he was killed last week — Preceding unsigned comment added by Morthanley ( talk • contribs)
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I only added on the list of combatants Russia because of the Chechens, India because of the large number of terrorist attacks there and their reletionship with India and Turkey because of the PKK, thus I added the PKK, Chechens on the oposite side, you argue that Russia and the Chechens shouldn't be on the list because their war predates this one, well the Moscow theater siege has been put in the campaignbox of the War on terrorism as have all of the other major attacks in Russia since then the scholl sieges for example, and as for the Kurds, there was a siece-fire between 1999 and 2004, the new phase started again in 2004 mid-War on terrorism. Top Gun
I also added Indonesia because of the amoung of attacks there and the international nature of those attacks. Top Gun
You see that's the thing it may have been started by the U.S. but has since become an international conflict not just a U.S. conflict. The Chechens have to be put on the list as well as the PKK, they are both after all designated as terrorist groups by the U.S. Top Gun
OK I agree on that one I will remove Indonesia. But very reluctantly because they have been fighting Yama Islamiya which is the Indonesian branch of Al-qaeda. Top Gun
I second your comments about the POV edits of Anoshirawan ( Talk | contribs), and I have also left a message on his/her talk page. Raoulduke47 has also noted her/his "bizarre POV edits". Khampalak has asked what can be done about it. Is Wikipedia:Requests for comment appropriate? -- Bejnar 17:10, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
I have added the number of injured to the page War on Terrorism casualties. The Honorable Kermanshahi 11:04, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
Ok I support the soldiers + helicopter photo, although I don't understand why not multiple image? Even the Russian-Japanese War and Bosnian War has one. -- TheFEARgod ( Ч) 12:56, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
A single image (albeit typically a painting rather than a photograph, as most wars predate photography) is indeed the most common approach taken. It's largely a factor of the lack of images to use, together with the generally uncontroversial nature of the articles, and of the wars themselves. Quite simply, nobody really cares what image is used in the lead of, say, the Italian War of 1521-1526. The same applies for most wars; the only people concerned with them tend to approach the matter from the standpoint of dry historiography, and view images more as something to add an occasional splash of color to an otherwise bland article than as something to make a statement in its own right.
The problem in your case, is, as I believe I've said before, that the war in question is simply too recent and too controversial to follow the most common practices. An article about it is more a journalistic piece than a historiographical one. A hundred years from now, it will likely be perfectly feasible to arbitrarily pick an image and use it; but, at the present time, any choice is going to be interpreted as emphasizing the image and its particular contents rather than as a question of mere aesthetics. Kirill 02:38, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
The new one we got, Image:Iraq streetfight.jpg, I like the best. The defining characteristic of war is death, and most of the Iraq war hasn't been helicopters in the desert, it's been guns and IEDs on the street. ← BenB4 12:35, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
Hello ! Would you have time to speak about the size of this article. I agree we had to reduce it, but it really seems me little now. The main problem is for me the lack of images, which dosen't deserve attractivity of the article ;( Don't you think that a few ones ll be useful. (For exemple the FA of today = 67.67 Ko) I dont think that it's very important if we add pictures, isn't it ?
Sorried to disturb you for such a stupid subject ^_^ Mrpouetpouet 20:16, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
Since consensus was to merge the two projects into one, I'm removing the redundant wikiBanners on talk pages - I'm still fluid on the actual wording of the "official" WikiProject's banner...but there should only be one, not two. On an unrelated note, is it just me or is it odd that nobody's started a Wikiproject:Iraq War? I imagine that would be one of the most popular groups, it seems. Sherurcij ( Speaker for the Dead) 07:23, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
A request for comments has been filed concerning the conduct of Nescio ( talk · contribs). You are invited to comment on the discussion at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Nescio. -- Isaac Pankonin 11:01, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
You blocked me on Uncyclopedia! You make me sad :( MITB LS ( t· c) 19:58, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
Just kidding! I'm not mad. Uncyclopedia is just a joke anyway! I'll just get back to editing Wikipedia now.
Hey Rangeley, sorry about Image:RonPaul.jpg being removed, Wikipedia:Image use policy says that images which are listed as for non-commercial use only, by permission, or which restrict derivatives are unsuitable for Wikipedia and will be deleted on sight.- the website you got it from said that unaltered use is permitted, which isn't enough, especially when so many free images of Ron Paul exist. Borisblue 03:31, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
Hi Rangley, listen I need your help, you and me and a few other guys discussed a few months ago on the list of combatants that should be put in the infobox there. But there is a problem now. A couple of guys who obviously have no idea what the War on terrorism is all about are insisting on removing the infobox almost entirely, both the combatants list and the casualties list, as if there are no combatants in this war. According to them there is only one combatant and that is America which is utterly stupid. So can you help with the discussion. Thanks. Top Gun 20 November 2007
Since Afghanistan seems to have become a current topic, I've notified wp:milhist and wp:afghanistan with the following:
Your ideas are welcome at: Talk:Afghan_Civil_War#What_needs_to_be_done.3F. Thanx to you.
Maybe you got something worthwhile to throw in. Cheers.-- victor falk ( talk) 18:50, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
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Your image, Image:DSCF1319.JPG, is named cryptically. Could you please choose a better name for your image (as I don't really even know what is in it) and move it. Thanks, Cavenba ( talk • contribs) 04:07, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
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The article War on Terrorism casualties has been nominated for deletion, your input into the discussion over it would be appreciated. 89.216.239.228 ( talk) 00:56, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
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An editor has nominated one or more articles which you have created or worked on, for deletion. The nominated article is War on Terrorism casualties. We appreciate your contributions, but the nominator doesn't believe that the article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in his/her nomination (see also Wikipedia:Notability and " What Wikipedia is not").
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An editor has nominated one or more articles which you have created or worked on, for deletion. The nominated article is Theaters of operation for the War on Terrorism. We appreciate your contributions, but the nominator doesn't believe that the article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in his/her nomination (see also Wikipedia:Notability and " What Wikipedia is not").
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Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. JokerXtreme ( talk) 09:19, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
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If you are up for it, I added an article about Bill Slavick, an Independent Candidate for the Maine Senate.If you could take a look and help polish it, I would appreciate it.I am not good with sourcing.Most of the information comes directly from the candidate's own literature. mitchsensei
I will look in to it. Rangeley 16:23, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Since you bothered to ask a question, I guess I should answer. As far as you are concerned, I am someone that has seen your editing efforts as suppression of fact (which in fact they have been). I suspect you are a sockpuppet or paid propagandist of some kind, despite your stated interests (most or all of which I share). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.43.35.97 ( talk • contribs)
Thanks for fixing the link, I was going back to it, and you had already fixed it. mitchsensei
...and keep up the good work keeping our current events up to date. I hope you stick around. ;) -- Grun t 🇪🇺 02:33, 2005 Apr 20 (UTC)
An admin needs to stop this guy.Please tell whoever you know about this user messing with the images of Pope Benedict.I've already reported it as vandalism in progress.Thanks for your help! - Husnock 03:50, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I won't change it again, but I still disagree with "His Holiness".People address George_W._Bush as "Mr. President..." -- however that's not how the page starts.It also doesn't start with "President..."It starts with "George Bush, blah blah President."I think something similar would be appropriate here. Quasipalm 05:49, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Hey...is this the same Rangeley from BoR? This is Y2A. It's really is a small internet. Jersey Devil 07:59, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
I'm watching that page and I think your edits are good. Merecat 04:39, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
Thanks, its getting rather annoying (along with the Iraq War article). I wish there was a way to lock just that portion so people would stop messing with it. Rangeley 05:41, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
Yea, he has made 4 edits that were all reverted in the article so far. Rangeley 05:49, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
I wanted to drop in and say your reasoning persuaded me to do furthur research and I came across the actual resolution through a website THOMAS: Librabry of Congress from there you can look up"H.J.Res.114 - Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002 (Enrolled as Agreed to or Passed by Both House and Senate)" The terminology "War on Terror" is used 2x in the document. I have since changed my vote without removing the old one, not sure if I should. Just stated I changed the vote from the one below. I do not agree politically with it, but factually you were indeed correct. -- Zer0faults 22:52, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
Thank you, and rather then remove your first vote, just strike it out, I dont know how to show the code without it striking something out, so just edit this post to get it that way.
Rangeley 22:56, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
Please refrain from removing content from Wikipedia, as you did to 2003 invasion of Iraq. It is considered vandalism. If you want to experiment, please use the sandbox. Thank you. Imroy 02:54, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
If you haven't done so yet, please go to: Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Merecat right away and add your perspective. Merecat 17:57, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
Please go here: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rationales to impeach George W. Bush (2nd nomination). I voted for delete. You may also want to (if that's your preference). Merecat 08:25, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
Removing NPOV tags is a gross offense of wikipedia policy. As are your repeated personal attacks. Stop immediately. De mortuis... 01:37, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
Removing of the NPOV tag was unintentional, I was restoring content that was removed (from an old version) and did not think to add the tag. For this I apologize, however, I do not beleive I have ever personally attacked you or anyone else. If I have, please show me where so I can adjust my behavior. Rangeley 01:40, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
No consensus has been reached, because the debate has not concluded. And remember, Wikipedia is not a Democracy. A consensus is not the results of a poll. Further, Wikipedia is not a battleground. You appear to be attempting to intimidate me because we disagree. I have come to this conclusion by your general attitude towards me, but I may be mistaken. Either way, I think we could both get farther if you lightened up a bit, perhaps not saying my every word is innuendo like De Mortuis did. I know what innuendo is, and this is not innuendo. To answer your final question, no, I do not use IP's to duplicate my edits. Rangeley 16:27, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
I do not beleive you or anyone here to be stupid, however I do beleive that Wikipedia is meant to represent the truth. When a large group of people is working to silence this truth, this is no reason to give in. I do not beleive you stupid, but merely wrong on this contested issue. Rangeley 16:36, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
Indeed, it says no more than 3 a day, something I have tried to keep track of throughout this entire time. Rangeley 16:53, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
That is a mischaracterization to begin with. If everyone reverted 3 times a day edits that were done without base, we could have likely prevented the John Seigenthaler scandal - which came from a lack of reverting a false edit. There is no consensus in this issue. A preliminary poll, even when concluded, is not a consensus. This poll is not even finished. Consensus? Hardly. Rangeley 17:10, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
Those who are right should never give up merely because the side that is incorrect has, at this time, more people. Obviously if everyone merely assumed themselves right, we would get nowhere. But I am not merely assuming I am right. After debating for such a long time, I am more sure than ever that it is a part of the campaign. Can you say the same? Are you more sure than ever that it was not started as part of this campaign, or are you just banking on the fact that you have more people on your side? Rangeley 17:35, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
But its POV just the same, no? Again, dont muddy the issue. It has been agreed that the Iraq War is part of the campaign, no disputing this. The press, and a majority of english speaking individuals refer to this conflict as the War on Terror. Iraq War = Part of Campaign. Campaign = War on Terrorism. Therefore, Iraq War = Part of War on Terrorism. Its simple logic. Rangeley 02:17, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
Stop it! Añoranza 23:19, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
I was under the assumption that vandalism was not helpful. I know you have an issue with the term. But here is your problem. 1. No consensus exists stating that the Waziristan War is not part of the war on terror, in fact, your own argument in previous places, that the War on Terror is against Al Qaeda and the Taliban, should make it clearer than anything in your mind that it is indeed a part of it. 2. Questions of POV go on the article in question, not everwhere else. For instance, if the article on George W. Bush were of questionable POV, such template would be placed on the article itself. Not in every article linking to it as something in (parenthesis).
I couldnt easilly fit that in a summary, but I thank you for coming to me so that now we are both on the same page. Rangeley 01:21, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
Indeed it is not vandalism to place an NPOV notice on the page itself. But putting it in parenthesis after it is linked to is vandalism. Rangeley 01:54, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
Thats not what I said you should do. An NPOV tag should be placed at the War on Terrorism page as thats the article in question. But just like we dont say George W. Bush (this article is locked due to vandalism) or Thursday (this article is featured), we do not put (this term's neutrality is disputed) after any disputed term when it is linked to. Rangeley 02:38, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
Please spreading dirty lies that Referendum won,because it far from over unofficial results vary from 54-46 to 55.5-44.5but it seems like croocked dirty independists failed,so please dont be saying its over until 10 am when we will get official results.Thank you very much Dzoni
I know that this is obviously a personal issue for many people, and I have reverted several edits made by those stating that they are now independant. However, this is not because I beleive the projections to be wrong, but instead because regardless of whether it has won or not, the two nations will remain together until they officially seperate. When and if this happens, that is when we should state Montenegro as its own nation. So again, if I have offended anyone it was completely unintentional. Rangeley 03:37, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
The reason I spoke to you is this sentence :"Likewise, while this referendum has been won by the independence movement, it has not yet been put into action."
I just wanted to point out to you that "this referendum has not been won" and with Gods will,if results stay as they are,referendum lost,but your sentence presumed its all over and thats why I spoke to you.You should be carefull,because just a couple of words can offend people.Thank you Dzoni
Although I feel multi-ethnic states and unity are preferable to division amongst ethnic lines I also acknowledge that people have to be pragmatic and take things as relevant to the situation they face. Western Sahara and Kurdistan are currently based in oppresive areas where the people are punished and would be better protected if independent yet this is not the case for Serbia and Montenegro. Ultimately my dream would be to see the world unified in one state but I accept that is extremely unlikely and at the moment I look at things in relative terms. Horses In The Sky talk contributions
Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/United States
Cast your vote! The more responses, the more chances the article will improve and maybe pass the nomination.-- Ryz05 t 01:29, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
Hi,
Thank you for supporting the recent FAC of United States, but unfortunately it failed to pass. However, I hope you will vote again in the future. In the mean time, please accept this Mooncake as a token of my gratitude.-- Ryz05 t 15:45, 11 June 2006 (UTC)Did not want to edit the WOT page while you seemed to be on vacation. I see you have been made aware of the situation with Anoranza, I have a RfC open against me now, one filed after the AN/I post I see you found. Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Zer0faults If you do not want to get involved I completely understand as things have escalated since you were last editing, even Nescio is choosing not to get involved. -- zero faults |sockpuppets| 01:46, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure why it would be doing that.You might have more luck asking on IRC or the help desk, since there are probably some more technically-skilled people there. -- tomf688 ( talk - email) 19:12, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the heads up. Rmt2m 16:32, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
You should be careful posting identical messages to lots of talk pages about "votes".First of all, we don't have votes here, and it's not very cool to encourage the idea that we do.Secondly, people get blocked for what we call "Internal spamming" regularly.Please don't try to sway the appearance of consensus by inviting groups of people with a certain POV to discussions. - GTBacchus( talk) 00:17, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Alright. I will stop, and I myself have stated before that a numerical majority is not a consensus. I am however interested in getting the strongest arguments possible on an issue, in hopes of finally ending the debate. Rangeley 00:18, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
I will post something about it at the Village Pump now. Rangeley 00:29, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
There, all are replaced with " Wikipedia:WOT has opened its straw poll, and is open to discussion," a vaguely more accurate description. Rangeley 01:02, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
It may not be harmful to put all of the discussion on the talk page, will keep voting page cleaner and allow for more open discussion in that location. Will also remove Hipocrites accusations that its a political discussino as talk pages are not under WP:V WP:NPOV etc. -- zero faults |sockpuppets| 15:32, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Just wondering why you took out the "US wounded" number and then changed your mind. Right now I'm of the mind to keep the wounded number out until/unless we find wounded numbers for all groups. Just curious about your change in tack. Publicus 16:02, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
My objection was it not being a standard in other wars infoboxes to show wounded. After I realized it was in other infoboxes, I reverted my edit. Since Im in several large debates already ( Wikipedia talk:WOT), I just wanted to limit the amount of things I would have to check and respond to, being a lazy person that I am. So my reversion is not because I think it should be placed there, but instead that my original basis for removing it was shown to be wrong. Rangeley 16:06, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
You should consider this your final warning. Do not disrupt Wikipedia to prove a point, like you did here. It is a violation of our policies, and can result in a block. Thank you. Hipocrite - «Talk» 18:15, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
I did not disrupt Wikipedia to prove a point, you linked to a page in the infobox that was irrelevant and should not have been placed there. I would ask you not to threaten me with being banned without base again, or you yourself may be seen as disrupting wikipedia. Rangeley 18:20, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Rangeley, I know you didn't delete my reply on purpose - you were clearly doing a major overhaul of some kind at the time.I really didn't mean anything more threatening than "let's all be careful" in my edit summary. - GTBacchus( talk) 21:48, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Thanks, thats good to know. Also, can anything be done about Nomen Nescio's editing? He keeps changing the points at the start of the article to misrepresent what it is addressing. [25] [26] [27] [28] [29] [30] [31] Rangeley 21:50, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
I just posted my list of preferences of how to handle the name. Rangeley 22:30, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Kizzle then wanted to call it The Bush Administrations Global War on Terrorism, but I said this doesnt represent the fact that Bush and his cabinet is not the only party involved. I asked if Kizzle would accept the Global/Overview compromise, and didnt get a response yet. So, didnt really get anywhere. Rangeley 16:06, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Hi, I've been caught up in other stuff and missed most of the above thread.I think the best way to demonstrate that you've got consensus is to edit the page, and it sticks.It's not really necessary to say any magic words or cut a ribbon with a pair of golden scissors or something.Here's one thing to do, though: start a clean section at the talk page of Iraq War.State really clearly what edit you feel the consensus has settled on.Allow people one last chance to comment about that particular edit.A good way to anticipate any objections is to already have the discussion in the text about the problems inherent in using the name "The War on Terrorism" while talking about the Iraq War.If this really is the solution that most or all of us can agree upon, that should be apparent.Who's the main objector at this point - Nescio?I could have a word with him, too, if you think that might help get us all on the same page... - GTBacchus( talk) 00:39, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Yes, he has been the most vocal opponent in discussion, and it would be quite helpful if you spoke with him. Rangeley 00:58, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Alright, I didnt know what that source was, since the original 55,000 number was added by me from the source I put up. Rangeley 14:35, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
I've left a note on Nescio's talk page, and I'm looking forward to chatting with him.So, are you guys starting a WikiProject on the War on Terrorism?Can I help?I'm a bit interested in political WikiProjects just now - they seem like a better way to network than by user category. - GTBacchus( talk) 16:00, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
I intended to, and made one [33]. However, it seems that Kirill Lokshin opposes it [34], and I am just so tired of people thinking I am out to cause trouble that I dont want to even defend it. Rangeley 16:02, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, right?How much mileage can we get out of the quotation marks trick?Here, check this out:
Ok, so there's a category tree, rooted at "Anti-Terrorism policy of the United States.This area of Wikipedia is clearly a mess.The really obvious problems, evident before looking at any articles, are in the category structure, how there are categories that are parents of their own siblings - that's not right.Anyway, for a WikiProject, I'd suggest first defining its scope.Just which of these categories would you include in your projects purview, and which ones would you leave out? - GTBacchus( talk) 16:31, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Because it isnt strictly the US, its the whole "War on Terrorism." Rangeley 16:52, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
What about "Anti-Terrorism Policy" in general? So long as this can include people who are infact terrorists, or events that are terrorist attacks, Id be fine with it. This would be better suited out of the military history umbrella though. Rangeley 16:57, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Yes, that sounds good. Rangeley 17:08, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Sure, can I just move the current project there, or is there some official way I have to go about it? Rangeley 17:15, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Yea, my category spamming days have ended. As only 2 people are in the project so far, I cant imagine there are any more than that watching it. You are also invited into it if you are interested. Rangeley 17:25, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Its just a way to organize efforts into cleaning up the area of terrorism and counter terrorism, including the war on terrorism campaign. Its the same project as before, only with a title that is less likely to cause problems. Rangeley 18:17, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
You might want to comment here; suffice it to say there are a number of questions about this putative group that need rather immediate answering. Kirill Lokshin 14:58, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
I have decided to no longer reply to this user anymore so he can cease his persecution claims. If I see something wrong, I will alert the user and not comment directly. I am tired of his antics of running to AN/I instead of discussing the situation with the community. I feel this users political opinion out weighs their ability to reach a concensus as whenever asked what would he be willing to accept or what he is asking for in return etc, he just responds that he is right and no matter how many people disagree with him, it doesnt matter. I leave you alone in your dealings with him, as I do not need the Wikidrama after all that happened with Anoranza. I have asked him to not reply to me, and in turn I will not reply to him. -- zero faults |sockpuppets| 18:39, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
I'd try to get more people to view the situation.I'm actually moving to another city this afternoon, and I won't be online as much as usual for a few days.Rather crummy timing, in this case.I do think that Nescio and Rkrichbaum have complaints that are more substantial than you might be recognizing.It's not remotely an open-and-shut issue.I have a lot of sympathy with arguments on both sides of this one.
Remember that dispute resolution offers several options, including Article Requests for Comment - have you tried one of those yet?If that fails, there's Requests for Mediation.I'll check in when I can. - GTBacchus( talk) 23:54, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
I was notified about that discussion, so I didn't have the chance to give my opinion. With all due respect, I'll follow what was said in each articles talk page. Esaborio 02:25, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
I posted links to the discussion in every topic it was related to, including the tempates talk page [35]. If you did not participate I am sorry, however the consensus can still be talked about, and I have indeed invited you to do so. Rangeley 02:27, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
You posted the links AFTER the "consensus" was reached, therefore, I couldn't participate. Esaborio 03:06, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
Hi,
For centralizing purposes, I have replied on my talk page.Best wishes, Xoloz 12:08, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
All right, I'll stick to the current version of the WOT template. Esaborio 02:03, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
Yes, I feel the original version was more accurate. Esaborio 05:55, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
Yes, that is correct. Rangeley 01:29, 21 June 2006 (UTC) What is correct?
I still have a problem with putting this in the title. I do understand though that this is a US-defined term--so if we have to use this Republican rhetorical device, can we at least label it "Part of the U.S. War on Terrorism" since that a better descriptor of the conflict.Publicus 13:24, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Clearly the consensus is still not found. Feel free to await the RFCF and what others, beside you, Zero and me, think of it. Nomen NescioGnothi seauton 18:43, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
I recommend you read the first two paragraphs (by me and GTBacchus), they explain why
After discussing the relationship between the Iraq War and the War on Terrorism, we have reached a consensus over how do deal with this at Wikipedia. As the "War on Terrorism" is a specific, defined campaign, waged by the USA and its allies, they have full ability to define it, and carry it out as they choose.
Hur? I edited the article called 2003 Invasion of Iraq.
Apparently you missed my goodbye, so I say it again. Don't bother addressing me because I have left this debate. Let me explain why. There started a debate whether the Iraq war is part of WOT and if it should say so in the infobox. You stated your case why you think it should. Many others told you why you were wrong. Your response? Simply restate the same argument. Again people correct you. Even 2 polls showed the majority was against having a controversial statement in the infobox. What do you do? Restate the same argument. Well 10 years, 5 films, and 7 novels later all those opposing your view have left and miraculously your POV is presented in this paragraph as consensus. No my friend, wearing out those with opposing views by ignoring every single argument they advance why you are wrong so they no longer wish to take part in any discussion with you is not consensus. It is reaching a POV statement through pestering away other views. Exactly why I stop, the fact you have the gall to present your POV as consensus says it all. Goodbye and feel delighted you get to make this article POV by being the most stubborn of all. Even more than I. Nomen NescioGnothi seauton 00:44, 23 June 2006 (UTC) Is the "War on Terrorism" a proper noun? If so, who created it? What dictates what is within the realm of the proper noun "War on Terrorism"? --kizzle 05:55, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
Why don't you check Religious War instead? Better read English with open mind!! Good luck!!! Larry Lawrence 23:13, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
Do not comment on my talk page. You clearly fail to understand that selfproclaimed consensus is bad form. Especially since you POV has been heavily critized and called POV pushing on the same page you claim shows consensus. If you are capable to discuss facts and leave the monologues out of it others would appreciate that. I have already stated I refuse to continue talking to you since all you are interested in is blatant POV pushing. Nomen Nescio Gnothi seauton 13:03, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Rangeley,
I\'m sorry that I was unable to contribute to the poll (Wikipedia:WOT), however I\'ve been inactive a bit lately, and don\'t use wikipedia as much as I once did, even \"active\". Chooserr 18:45, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Thats fine, we reached a consensus on the issue here: [36] which you are welcome to comment on. Rangeley 18:46, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
I thought you had looked at this already— Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.9.105.18 ( talk • contribs)
Hello, there's been some discussion about Operation Summer Rain vs. Operation Summer Rains at Operation Summer Rain. Since you previously expressed interested in this issue, I'd like to get your opinion again, since it's come up again.It may be worth checking newspapers again, since my research indicates they're about 50-50 on usage. Thanks. WilyD 16:27, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
Not sure if you seen that post on the talk page of the wikiproject we have been working on. Let me know what you think of it, it seems pretty organized and maybe a combined effort between the groups merging can help speed up its progression. -- zero faults |sockpuppets| 16:43, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
What do you think about the WOT and NATO? Am I overdoing it? Nescio thinks NATO should not be noted, however I disagree with him. He removed the template for WOT from the NATO page on the basis that NATO is not involved with enough operations. However I noted they are involved with OEF-HOA OEF-A and Operation Active Endeavor. What is your opinion, you seem to give good advice. -- zero faults |sockpuppets| 01:06, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
We can now conclude that the both of you insist WOT is not a US but a NATO campaign. That is allright with me, but if it is a NATO campaign Bush no longer has the last word on what is part of that campaign. Therefore the discussions in which you claimed authority since Bush said so, are null and void since Bush does not get to say anything. Further teaming up is not entirely civil behaviour. Nomen Nescio Gnothi seauton 01:31, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
Either restore all my deleted comments or leave it. As it is a large part of what I wrote disappeared, is repeatedly deleted, and even my comments on that are reverted by you. At best you are uncivil at worst you are harrassing me and I demand you stop this. Either allow all my comments or allow my protest to the blatant manipulation! Nomen Nescio Gnothi seauton 12:57, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
Do not repeat your arguments but read the numerous comments explaining this is POV. Have you removed your comment? If you deny me the right to place comments and repeatedly delete them I will be forced to make yet another edit out of protest. Even the last edit was manipulated by you. Why do you get to censor other peoples view? Is this not exactly why many said on the page it was a POV pushing poll? Nomen Nescio Gnothi seauton 14:38, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
We may have an opportunity to put this all to rest with Nescio. He is seeking mediation and maybe a cool headed 3rd party can help end all of this for once. Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2006-07-05 Wikipedia:WOT -- zero faults |sockpuppets| 20:46, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
Of course there is. An unnecessarily long reference to the Iraq War. Esaborio 02:53, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Yes, I do. I do not support proven lies. Esaborio 03:00, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
What is a lie is that it IS part of the War on Terrorism. The rest in misinformation. Esaborio 03:05, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
That is a US resolution, not a UN Security Council one, so of course it says what the US Government wants it to say: lies. Esaborio 03:18, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Yes, the truth. Esaborio 03:27, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
A Government can lie to make a campaign seem to fit in with another, unrelated one. Have you read the "Project for the New American Century"? I have. The Iraq War was planned years ago. Esaborio 03:34, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Absolutely. In what you described in your "hypothetical situation", unlike what happens with the War on Terrorism and the Iraq War, both programs refer to the same problem: poverty, whereas those two wars do not refer to terrorism. Only the first one does. The other is about money, or in toppling a dictator, at best. Esaborio 03:59, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
No, it is also against regimes who refuse to hand over terrorists that they harbour, when they are asked to, like the Taliban did. Esaborio 04:23, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Irrelevant?! How convenient! That way the US can continue to lie to the world and attack other countries just for economic interests, no matter if their motives are proven to be lies. So basically you are saying that the War on Terrorism is a "blank check" for the US Government, right? Esaborio 04:41, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
"We should recognize them as a part of the campaign because they are." Great argument... They are not, because the War on Terrorism is against terrorist organizations and regimes that refuse to hand terrorists over to proper authorities, and the Iraq War was against a regime that didn't refuse to hand over any terrorists. Esaborio 04:58, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
And what terrorist groups was the US supposed to stop by invading Iraq? And when was Saddam asked to stop sponsoring terrorism, as the Taliban were? That is no War on Terrorism, that is an aggression war, since Iraq had done nothing to the US, neither directly nor indirectly. Esaborio 05:11, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
The US does not have the authority to attack any state it conveniently considers to be a sponsor of terrorism. It requires a resolution by the UN Security Council to do so, as was the case with Afghanistan. Esaborio 05:24, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
It was begun based on lies, to make it look like it was part of the War on Terrorism. Ironically, it IS terrorism itself: state terrorism. Esaborio 05:38, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
What is a lie is that they were fighting terrorism, no matter what campaign it is said to be part of by the war hawks in Washington. And how can it be part of the War on Terrorism if the victims of the war are not sponsors of terrorism? That doesn't make any sense! It is like saying you are fighting drugs lords by killing cookie makers, because you see them as drug lords! Esaborio 05:54, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
"It is because the US says so". That is your only argument. If it didn't begin to fight terrorists there, nor did it begin to fight a regime for harboring terrorists, by logic it CANNOT be part of a War on Terrorism. Esaborio 06:11, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
No, I just don't know of any proofs presented by the US to back that claim. Esaborio 06:19, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
It does matter, because a war against innocent people isn't a War on Terrorism, it IS terrorism. The US shouldn't attack without any proof of links to terrorism. Esaborio 06:28, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
How can the inexistence of links to terrorism be irrelevant for a War on TERRORISM?! The term looses all of its meaning if you fight something that isn't terrorism under in its name. Esaborio 06:38, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
And where are it's proofs? Esaborio 06:52, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
So it is a war against anyone the US doesn't like, right? It is not about terrorism at all now... Esaborio 07:00, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
For considering Iraq a state sponsor of terror. Esaborio 07:02, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
As I said before, then it is a war against anyone the US doesn't like. Your example is absurd, because beauty is subjective, while being a terrorist is objective. To call someone a terrorist you must back up your words with facts. Esaborio 07:17, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
No, being objective, there are two different campaings: one against terrorists in some places, and another which began against innocent people in Iraq. Esaborio 07:28, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
That is no proof it sponsored terrorism. Esaborio 07:34, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Based on lies... Esaborio 07:39, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
It matters, because logic dictates you can't fight one thing in the name of fighting another. Otherwise, this fight looses it's meaning. Esaborio 07:48, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Most of the world was involved in some way in both World Wars, in the Cold War the US and the USSR never fought, and the War of 1812 began that year, hence their names. And there was no way they could have known during World War I that it wasn't going to end all wars. On the other hand, the US had the resources to find out before beginning the War on Terrorism which countries supported terrorism, via REAL intelligence. Esaborio 07:59, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Unlike the case here, because since the beginning they knew who was sponsoring terrorism and who wasn't. The US shoudn't label a campaign as part of the War on Terrorism when there is no evidence whatsoever of sponsorship of terrorism. Esaborio 08:09, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
That is a no, indeed. Esaborio 08:11, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Not without sufficient proofs. It is relevant because they never proved their sponsorship of terrorism. And what I admitted is that US lied about the issue. Esaborio 05:51, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
No, they lied about saying it sponsored terrorism. A War on Terrorism should be fought against terrorist organizations and proven terrorist-sponsoring states. It was never proven that Iraq sponsored terrorism, the US just said it did, to justify their aggression. Where is their evidence? Esaborio 04:54, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
I never addressed it?! Please see above. Esaborio 06:07, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
See my 04:54, 8 July 2006 reply. Esaborio 06:14, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
Then read it again and again until you understand it. And stop wasting my time! Esaborio 06:28, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
I answered your two "legitimate questions", and I explained why I removed that information after your revert, yet you keep asking. THAT is making me waste my time. Esaborio 06:34, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
STOP WASTING MY TIME! I told you to read my answer until you get it, and if you don't, too bad! Esaborio 06:40, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
No, what you don't understand is my answer, so I'll say this again: READ IT AND READ IT AND READ IT! Esaborio 06:48, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
Sorry if you don't get (or just don't like) my answer, but I won't waste my time repeating myself. Esaborio 06:58, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
What is really ludicrous is your interpretations ofmy answers. I haven't admitted such a thing, and never will, because I despise lies. The only thing you are right about is that the dabate is over. Esaborio 07:06, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
What is a lie? Read my answers again, dammit! Esaborio 07:09, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
Read my answers again...! Esaborio 07:14, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
Read my answers again... Esaborio 07:26, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
the source for the dead is in the article. However, wounded is imposible to varyfy and it is a low estimate.-- Spoil29 17:47, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
IN THE MEDIATION CABAL; Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2006-07-05 Wikipedia:WOT
After review of the case notes, the messages, the page itself, and the comments from Nescio quoted below, we have decided that the best course of action is to refer this matter to administrators for review.
User conduct disputes, specifically ones that require or seek enforcement action, are not within our perview.We cannot make a blanket decision to revert deleted comments at the page in question, nor can we "grant the right to remove" anything from an article or talk page or generally enforce any action taken against undesirable user behavior as we are an informal group of mediators acting for the benefit of the encyclopedia.
The case is remanded to administrators for review. CQJ 06:07, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
The Prophet Wiz ard of the Cray on Cake has offered to assist in the matter further if necessary.Please contact him directly should you require his assistance. CQJ 06:29, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
I replaced it with Arab-Israeli conflict because 2006 Arab-Israeli War is up for deletion, as no such event exists. See the talk on the page for more details, but essentially, we can't create that name if there is little or no usage in the mainstream press. Cheers, Tewfik Talk 20:31, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
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The Current Events Barnstar | |
I hereby grant you this barnstar for your diligent editorial work on all of the articles concerning the
2006 Arab-Israeli War. Pifactorial 22:13, 13 July 2006 (UTC) |
Thanks! Rangeley 01:00, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
Hi.I would like to assume good faith.But your use of HTML comments on image uploads, as in this image, looks very much like an attempt to foil our image cleanup bots.It may be true that a "fair use" defense against copyright infringement would work for this and other images you have uploaded, but we need a real fair use rationale for each one, not a HTML comment.See Wikipedia:Image description page for what Wikipedia expects from a "fair use rationale", and Wikipedia:Fair use criteria for the handling of unfree content at Wikipedia. Jkelly 00:51, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
The page does not currently meet wikipedia standards.It is both too long and far too POV to be considered a quality article.I have been working on a rewrite but have encountered resistance from an editor who does not like the "POV shift" of my rewrite.You can read the latest version (draft) of the rewrite on my sandbox. [39]The article Talk page discusses several of the issues.I have invited two people to act as informal mediators.One of them was chased off by the intransigent editor who opposes the POV shift. The second editor said he thought the debate "was dead in the water."That is hardly the position needed for someone to act as a mediator.I would appreciate you taking a look. RonCram 04:01, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Nescio Dropping this on your page to review as you were involved in the disputes. -- zero faults |sockpuppets| 13:53, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
My edit and the summary was intended for the "Donald Ferrone" thing, and your edit got inadvertently caught in the middle. Sorry about that. Zocky | picture popups 06:21, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
I was about to self revert Zeq 07:41, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
Any claim of POV here is ridiculous, a point which you've made sufficiently clear in extensive discussion on talk. While it may be more relevant to have a slightly more active picture, being as we have no access to one at the moment, this is certainly a good choice. Keep up the good work, Tewfik Talk 16:52, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
Could you please add your further comment at 2006_Israel-Lebanon_crisis#I.27ve_added_Iran. I'm about to add Iran back, but I want your opinion first Hello32020 17:01, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
Link is actually Talk:2006_Israel-Lebanon_crisis#I.27ve_added_Iran.
This is my resposne to you both in my talk page and in the talk page of the 2006 Lebanon-Israel crisis.
"Rangley, others have said and I agree: you have displayed a lack of good faith and have an attitude. For example, you seem to have misread me. In my original message I argued not about NPOV, which is next to impossible to achieve in a picture (unless we do a composite which is ugly), but for newsworthyness. My message is there for all to read. What I didn't like about the 3 binocular picture is that it is a propaganda picture with no news value at all, besides being bland and boring. Its three guys with binos, nothing special. Now the current picture with the IDF artillery piece its a better one, but I hope we can find something more human, or that conveys the human aspect of warfare better. That is my sole arguement, and you are setting a strawman by arguing against something I havent argued for.--Cerejota 20:51, 16 July 2006 (UTC) "
I never argued pictures had to be NPOV. Learn to read and have some more good faith. -- Cerejota 20:54, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
I noticed you reverted this page with the edit summary "revert vandalism".I don't think the other user's edits qualify as vandalism, since vandalism is editing that's done with the intention of reducing the quality of the article, and the other person made that edit because he believes the article is better the other way.He may be wrong, but this is a content dispute, not a case of vandalism.It's important to civility not to simply label edits you disagree with as vandalism.-- Mr. Billion 21:15, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
That's an interesting story, but a key distinction is that the person you mention was (I assume) not supposed to paint that mural, and did so without the building owner's permission.Randomly repainting buildings is generally illegal.Editing Wikipedia articles is not.
Review
Wikipedia: Vandalism."Vandalism is any addition, deletion, or change to content made in a deliberate attempt to reduce the quality of the encyclopedia."Simply making edits with which you disagree is not vandalism.Please don't use the phrase "vandalism" to denigrate people with whom you disagree. --
Mr. Billion
All right, thanks. -- Mr. Billion 00:42, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
I was trying to remove the double citation of "CNN4" from the "casualties2" section of the template and was met with the whole thing coming apart. Want to take a look and see if you have better luck? Thanks, Tewfik Talk 21:46, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
Also, check this diff - I'm not sure what happened but it look like content got cut off... Tewfik Talk 21:56, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
it's is not active participant in conflict.nor has any direct role in in suppling the hezbollah with arms.
i noticed you put the pov tag on the article.could you please participate in the ongoing debate about a rewrite.your input could be valuable. thanks. Anthonymendoza 21:10, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
Apparently mediation does not improve the current conflict I have with this user. Since I am at my wits end I have filed a case at ArbCom. This is to notify you should you wish to comment there. Nomen Nescio Gnothi seauton 11:05, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
Hello,
An Arbitration case in which you commented has been opened: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Zer0faults.Please add evidence to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Zer0faults/Evidence.You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Zer0faults/Workshop.
On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, -- Tony Sidaway 10:39, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
This picture is POV because it shows only Israeli attack and not Hezbollah-- Shrike 16:53, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
So why not post Hizballah katuasha launchers?-- Shrike 11:49, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
Hello. See here: [40]. Esaborio 22:15, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
Why do you ask questions you already know the answers for? Remeber this discussion: [41]?
No, you failed to understand reasons. I have already explained my motives, sorry if you just don't like them for being biassed. And what "unwillingness" are you talking about? I explained countless times to you what you have asked answers for. Again, sorry if you don't like them, but they are here: [42]. Esaborio 22:35, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
I have explained it to you countless times. I am sorry if you "fail to understand" my explanations. Your atttitude just shows how biassed you are on the issue. Esaborio 22:43, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
Like this: [43]? Esaborio 22:47, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
Denying my explanation won't make it dissapear, so stop your childish behavior try to understand them instead of just pretending they aren't there. Esaborio 22:55, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
Ok, but it will be the last time: "And how can it be part of the War on Terrorism if the victims of the war are not sponsors of terrorism? That doesn't make any sense! It is like saying you are fighting drugs lords by killing cookie makers, because you see them as drug lords!" I posted that on 6 July 2006, at 05:54. Esaborio 23:04, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
See above. Their definition can't be based on nothing. Esaborio 23:20, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
My answer is there, you just don't like it. You are completely biassed... Esaborio 23:28, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
No, it is the dictionary's. Esaborio 23:30, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
I did provide it time and again, but since instead of (trying to) refute it you are unwilling to admit that I provided an explanation, I just won't waste my time playing your games anymore. Good bye. Esaborio 23:36, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
Blindly reverting with the intent of making the encyclopedia is not vandalism. On the other hand, transcluded sigs are expressly banned by WP:SIG. Hipocrite - «Talk» 19:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for pointing that out, wasnt aware there was a different signature policy than Uncyclopedia. As far as blind reverting goes, I guess you must be right, its a good policy. ~ Rangeley ( talk) 19:35, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
Rangeley, History21, would either of you be interested in joining an RFC regarding Hipocrite's recent edits?(I've drafted one here).I don't want to start a big confrontation with Hipocrite, who I'm sure is a fine editor, but I find his reversions troubling.Thanks, TheronJ 21:17, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
Rangeley, History21, TruthCrusader:
FYI, I've named you all as parties who attempted to resolve the issues raised at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Hipocrite.
Thanks, TheronJ 22:20, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
See this, this, and this. rootology ( T) 00:33, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for uploading Image:54995.jpg. The image has been identified as not specifying the source and creator of the image, which is required by Wikipedia's policy on images.If you don't indicate the source and creator of the image on the image's description page, it may be deleted some time in the next seven days.If you have uploaded other images, please verify that you have provided source information for them as well.
For more information on using images, see the following pages:
This is an automated notice by OrphanBot.For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. 07:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
Thank you for taking the time to upload the photo of "Downtown SJ". Unfortunately, there is an ongoing debate on the discussion page for the Saint John article on the size and content of the SJ article. This photo is not helpful. I am removing it. Please understand. If you have any comments, see the SJ talk page. Thanks. DDD DDD 03:13, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
Did not see the vacation tag at the top. Just noticed you popping up on my watchlist, welcome back. -- zero faults |sockpuppets| 17:32, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
Based on discussions with TomTheHand I don't think that Larry Lawrence is an actual sockpuppet of Copperchair. However, I have created a CheckUser request to check on Larry and his multitude of sockpuppets. I'll go ahead and add Kevin Taylor to the queue. Thanks! -- Bobblehead 20:42, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
polls closed at 8 am cst. Those votes are past that time. -- Zonerocks 17:04, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
Wouldn't it be considered a new conflict or new operation if fightining later resumes though? -- GoOdCoNtEnT 21:30, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
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The Original Barnstar | |
This slightly late Barnstar is awarded to you for your great work in redoing the War on Terrorism article, Thank you for your great contributions to Wikipedia. -- zero faults |sockpuppets| 12:45, 16 August 2006 (UTC) |
Glad for helping at the Afghan articles. Now, take a look at my new Dagestan War article: any suggestions, linkings would be greatly appreciated. -- TheFEARgod 21:45, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
Why did you change my screenshot for Uncyclopedia?-- Selmo 04:41, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
I do not know how to setup sockpuppet checks, but User:Don't fear the Reaper made the same edits, adding future to WW3, reverting the template etc. removing Iraq from WOT related article and the WOT:Allies page. -- zero faults |sockpuppets| 12:25, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
Per your comments on my talk page, I have tagged these images for deletion.Also, please see my reply there - I tried to give a good explanation of fair use philosophy on Wikipedia. BigDT 20:11, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
I just wanted to thank you for sticking up for me. In all this craziness, its reassuring to know that editors who may disagree on certain issues can still step back from the debate as colleagues. Again, I'm extremely appreciative of your actions, and I'm glad to have worked with you on this article. Cheers, Tewfik Talk 07:29, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
I know it may sound ridiculous, but i saw this map u created. if u ever think of updating or fixing it, pls include Crete in Greece as well:). Thanks -- Hectorian 22:04, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
Sorry for not responding to the message you left on my talk.I've been on kind of a Wikibreak lately, as I've been swamped with real-life work.Anyway, I agree with you that that IP's edits are suspicious.However, it hasn't been active lately (though it was when you left me the message), and I'd probably want more evidence to block an IP than I would to block a user name.I'm still a newbie admin and I want to be careful.Please continue to keep an eye out for Copperchair and let me know what you see. TomTheHand 15:16, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
How did this guy ever become an administrator? He obviously is exerting bias.I put in something with an academic reference and he took it down with only a "yea, right" comment in the edit box. Pretty ungentlemanly for an admin. Dogru144 18:13, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
Can you please explain why you removed 2 sourced entries ( here and here) from the War on Terrorism article?Both were from reliable sources and the sources seem to jive with the entry that they were associated with. In the case of the first, there was discussion on the talk page, but no consensus to remove it. I'm going to go ahead and revert your removals, please do not remove unsourced material without consensus in the future. -- Bobblehead 02:54, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
This case is now closed and the results have been published at the link above. Zer0faults is placed on Probation. He may be banned for an appropriate period of time from an article or set of articles which he disrupts by tendentious editing or edit warring. All bans to be logged at Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Zer0faults#Log of blocks and bans. For the Arbitration Committee. FloNight 02:06, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
Hi sorry to bother you but I started a new vote to have 'bill oreilly' routed directly to bill oreilly (commentator) and the current bill oreilly page made teh bill oreilly (disambiguation) page. This vote is taking place at Talk:Bill_O'Reilly#New_Vote_on_Disambiguation_page The previous vote was posted on the Cricket fan activism group to pull votes and so it seems only fair to inform people who might find it convenient to link directly to a page used more often. Mrdthree 07:36, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
Hi Rangeley,
I just noticed the Barnstar, and I wanted you to know how appreciative I am of it - especially coming from you. Different users will inevitably have different preconceptions about various issues based on their own experiences and background, and it is comforting to know that we can embrace that without letting it get in the way of building an objective, high-quality reference. Again, it was a pleasure disagreeing with you (
), and I hope to collaborate with you again in the future. Cheers,
Tewfik
Talk 15:38, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
Hi Rangeley! You're an editor I respect and I'd like to ask you about the decision to avoid the phrase "civil war" when discussing the situation in Iraq. It seems to me that refusing to lable a factional conflict in which tens of thousands of people are dying a "civil war" violates NPOV. I can find virtually no objective definition of "civil war" in the relevant literature that does not apply to such large scale sectarian violence. Of course this issue remains controversial. But I worry that adopting the "sectarian violence" label and avoding the term "civil war" is to gloss the truth in a manner that violates our community standards. Even if you supported the war (I did), that's no excuse to adopt pro-war rhetoric in the description of the current state of affairs. Anyway, I'd appreciate any thoughts you have on the matter. Benzocane 15:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
Hi Rangeley.
I can see from the links you gave me that you're having a slightly frustrating interaction with Timeshifter.I agree with you that the conversation in question is more germane in the User talk: namespace, but he seems not to want it on his talk page.Personally, I'd let that part slide.He wants the conversation to be at Talk:Iraq War, even though it isn't particularly appropriate there; whatever.Putting the comments back onto someone's talk page after they've removed them twice is going to generate more heat than light, 10 times out of 10.I'd just post a response to his comments indicating that he's incorrect, as anybody who looks into it will see.Since this is a wiki, your contributions are viewable by anyone who cares to check.I'd just post a simple factual rebuttal to his statement, and move on.You could even mention (without casting aspersions - keep it real professional, y'know) that you think the comments are in the wrong place, but that when you tried to move them, they were moved back.Then if you can refocus the conversation on the images that are actually being discussed, everybody wins... more or less.
I realize this "solution" doesn't exactly get what you want, which is that conversation moved to the right place.I just don't think that particular battle is worth your energy.
If he's a habitually difficult editor, then something like a user RfC could be appropriate, especially if multiple editors are noticing a similar problem from the same user.Like you say, though, the wiki is full of difficult people, and you can't RfC all of them.Arguing with them so seldom renders them less difficult, that it becomes essential to choose one's battles.I decided a while ago not to fight with anybody about their own talk page.
I hope that helps, and I wish you good luck. - GTBacchus( talk) 07:51, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
Hi there - long time no speak
. Palestine48's translation is pretty much accurate. The only change I would make is "Beit Hanoun in the northern Gaza Strip." Cheers,
Tewfik
Talk 07:12, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
I'll be happy to talk about my deletion nomination at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Somalian War. – Zntrip 03:09, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
I've done my best to tidy the article on Operation Autumn Clouds, which you recently started. Regards, KazakhPol 03:36, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
That really annoyed me. I cant believe they deleted the page! It's because it was in Africa. If it had been in Europe or North America it would have been "important" enough to have its own article. Jeez. KazakhPol 04:45, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
See this: 2006 Israel-Gaza conflict A user (El C I think) changed the name and blocked from moving it). Utter nonsense. Cheers-- TheFEARgod ( Ч) 15:02, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
Just wondering, if you wouldn't mind telling me, what Opperating System you are using? --TheNunOwnedGoat 05:31, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
Please participate in the talk page discussion before reinserting that Iraq is part of the War on Terror into the infobox. If you would like to cite the speech in the article text (and I'm sure you could find others), I think that its clear that the Bush Administration has frequently referred to the Iraq War as part of the War on Terrorism. However, this position is far from universally held, and, as such, is ill-suited for an infobox, which is meant to contain non-controversial information, like basic facts. savidan (talk) (e@) 23:51, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
Read the talk page on the Iraq War page; the consensus is cited by Savidian in that discussion. csloat 03:31, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
Right now, there definitely is no strong consensus that the "part of the war on terror" wording should be included in the infobox.Many people feel it violates NPOV.The two polls seem to suggest a consensus that it should be removed-- but there definitely isn't a consensus that it should be included.Discuss, keep trying to change opinions, but don't edit war by adding it back in until there is a strong consensus that it belongs there. -- Alecmconroy 04:37, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
KeeperOTD to Rangeley
I've just finished reading the endless, cyclical debate on the infobox issue of "U.S. War On Terror".Primarily, I got there by wondering what was "wrong" with the neutrality of the original article as it seemed as even handed as it could be (given the emotional and divisive pov's on all sides). History has yet to reach final verdict on this issue but for right now, Wikipedia seems to have done it's best to represent the War in Iraq.
Anyway, I agree with the reasoning for going with "U.S. War On Terror" but my reason for posting is this: well done man.
I have to say, I would have gone insane attempting to reason with people that think that Wikipedia is a Stallion built by committee and believe their pov is crucial to that committee.In some ways it is, but there is a limit to how many viewpoints can be expressed/included and which "facts" are more relevant than others.The saying about "not being able to please all of the people all of the time" should be understood by the people that seem to keep missing the point(s) (deliberately or otherwise) and just accepted that "consensus" and "compromise" are not the end all, be all of the universe.There just comes a point where a decision is reached to call an "apple" an "apple" and everybody should move on instead of ranting about what kind of apple it is or whether apple sauce should really be lumped under the "apple" article as it might "confuse people".
It's not helpful to anyone to have an infobox that says, "An Apple Or The 1,000 Other Things An Apple Is Called By The Group of Reality Impaired Peanut-gallery Elitists (or GRIPE) Who All Had A Variation or Viewpoint/Axe To Grind on the Name of this Fruit (which might not be a fruit depending on the lunacy and/or conspiracy theorist level of the person in question)..."
Wikipedia should be clear and informative but that doesn't mean worrying about (or pandering to) the "dumbest" or most easily confused reader that might wander into the virtual room.It wouldn't be practical to explain in detail of every nuance, dispute, and so on of every single sentence of every article to satisfy every single reader.Clearly, Wikipedia expects a person to either understand things at a certain level or have the assertiveness to look up the linked words/concepts/footnotes of the things they don't understand.
To wrap things back up, I think you handled the issue very well and kept your cool, even in the midst of those who were clearly arguing just to argue.I myself would have exploded and just refused to debate any further; particularly the third time you had to explain the concept of "campaign" and it's importance to the issue (which I thought was both right on the nose and the best reason for calling the "apple" an "apple").
Keep up the good work. " KeeperOTD 01:20, 23 December 2006 (UTC)"
This user is continually re-adding part of the infobox that many users have attempted to remove. If you're an admin, please do something about this. UnfairlyImbalanced 21:20, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
Rangeley, I've taken a moment to ask you to please stop re-adding the disputed text to the Iraq War page.Saying that the Iraq War is "Part of the War on Terrorism" is inappropriate for the reasons I've discussed:
Please stop re-inserting the disputed text, and do not attempt to re-insert it again until such time as a consensus of Wikipedians supports doing so. As I've said before, you've made many excellent contributions to the encyclopedia in the past, but we're at the point where if you keep re-inserting it, people are going to start trying to get you blocked from editing Wikipedia. Already, several individuals have contacted me asking for advice on how to proceed in this manner.
Please, stop.Seriously.If you keep editing against consensus, people will be forced to take whatever actions are necessary to stop you-- and that means a lot of wasted time and a lot of bad feelings for everyone.I sincerely ask you to please, just recognize that right now, the consensus is against you, and you if you want the text in the article, you need to change minds, not edit-war.
Please, don't put the text back.If you do, then I or someone else has to take the time to go and get you blocked for it, and then you won't be able to even discuss the situation, and it'll just be a giant, giant mess, and nobody wants that. -- Alecmconroy 11:43, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
You misunderstand what the War on Terrorism is. Its not a war, its not a wider conflict. Its a military campaign, ie a superop. Much like operations can contain subops, Operations themselves can be contained within a campaign. The War on Terrorism is one such campaign, and it is the official designation under which other operations have been carried out. It is not a POV that the Iraq War began under this campaign, the authorization of war specifically states that it was authorized to "prosecute the war on terrorism." ~ Rangeley ( talk) 16:07, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
Never cite majority opinion when determining what is factual. Most people do not think it is a war against terrorists, but this is a seperate issue of whether it is part of the campaign, which is indisputable. ~ Rangeley ( talk) 16:07, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
Have you read this? ~ Rangeley ( talk) 16:07, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
Have you read this? A consensus isnt reached by a majority or a super majority, and your insistence that it is violates wikipedia rules. A consensus is reached through discussion and weighing arguments, the 4 you have given are either false on the basis that they violate the rules or false on the basis that they view the War on Terrorism as a war. Please participate in discussion with valid arguments. ~ Rangeley ( talk) 16:07, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
I am very dissappointed with you. When you contacted the various people who had disagreed with me in the past, but not others, via talk pages in attempt to "stack" discussion against me I had an inkling that you didnt want to see eye to eye, but now that you have dropped all pretenses and dont even bother addressing anything I say, its good to see what this has boiled down to. Whats wrong with splitting articles and even adding "campaign" in? Anything? If not, dont just go away and pretend that you didnt just waste my time on a useless discussion, you are going to end what you began and come to a conclusion besides that of another veiled threat aimed at me. ~ Rangeley ( talk) 18:48, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
What point do you think I'm trying to make?Be careful!Better not say I want the ED article recreated, I've said several times that I don't. Milto LOL pia 03:32, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Rangely, please report any disruptive edit-warring at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RR. Tom Harrison Talk 14:01, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Are you even looking at the text you are reverting?You are removing a citation that says the Uncyclopedia logo is a parody of the Wikipedia logo, and you're restoring a self-reference, which is supposed to be avoided.Stop reverting without discussing the changes; the article doesn't have to be static, and these blind, unexplained reversions are highly disruptive. Milto LOL pia 01:36, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
You and I "wikimet" during the Iraq War/ War on Terrorism naming debate.I am seeking your help as an objective, far-removed observer of the edits made by user Jmlodal to the Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology article, starting with this one [47], through my edits, and up to the current one.Even though I am not a member of the group that has the biggest stake in this argument, I have a personal connection to this article that mitigates my ability to edit on controversial issues objectively.One might also note that the username of the other editor corresponds to the first two initials and last name of Mrs. Lodal's husband.For both of these reasons I am asking you, an objective, respected member of the community, to come in and straighten things out.Thank you. KevinPuj 04:31, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
I do not know Rangley or Mr. Puj.But I believe he says it all with his comment "I have a personal connection to this article that mitigates my ability to edit on controversial issues objectively."He inserted a misleading and irrelevent section into the subject article to persue a personal vendetta.This has no place in Wikipedia.It may well be appropriate to have a section on Elizabeth Lodal, but if so, it needs to be accurate and compete.I notice that Mr. Puj has now reverted back to his original section, ignoring all the insertions and edits made since I began this round of edits, including even the several edits he contributed that I left in.So for now, I am deleting Mr. Puj's personal vendetta section.Perhaps someone who truly is objective might write a new setion.Until then, this is not a major issue relative to TJ and the TJ article can do quite well without it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jmlodal ( talk • contribs)
I have no personal vendetta against Mrs. Lodal.I am not even a member of the group that was so insulted by her simple statement of a fact.I removed myself from editing in a responsible way, and, Mr. Lodal, I would ask you to do the same.We can discuss the changes on the talk page and have a third party decide what to do with them.I did not revert back to the original section (which I did not write, by the way, so calling it "his original section" is inaccurate).Please check the edit history.This is a major issue relative to TJ, as evidenced by the multiple, non-trivial sources that reference it. KevinPuj 15:48, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
In accordance with deciding to recuse myself from editing the section, I am unable to make a change on the Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology article. But I would appreciate it if you took a look at this edit. KevinPuj 11:48, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
Rangeley, as we have discussed many times, it is not appropriate for you to re-insert the disputed text against consensus. It has been brought to my attention that you have again re-inserted the disputed text [48].I therefore am going to begin proceedings against you, with the aim of having you blocked / banned from editing Wikipedia as a whole or Iraq War in particular.
If sometime before I lodge the complaint, you voluntarily self-revert and promise not to re-insert the text against yourself, I will accept that and will not proceed at this time.Given how many different individuals have tried to explain to you the inappropriateness of your behavior on this, however, I think that is an unlikely scenario, so I'll go ahead.
I'm sorry it's come to this.I hope you'll save us all a lot of time and hurt feelings by undoing your edit.-- Alecmconroy 01:43, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
Rangeley-- thank you again for your self-revert.I have posted a very sharply-worded discussion on the talk page re-iterating that the repeated re-insertions need to stop until there is a truly solid consensus.Let me say, however, that while I mean what I say about a willingness to request banning,I'm not actually upset or angry or even really "peeved" in any way.If we knew each other in real life, I'm sure we'd have many excellent conversations, and you might find we agree on much more than you might suspect.
People need my assistance, they have repeatedly solicited my aid, and I think a certain amount of forcefullness is necessary to resolve the situation, so I'm willing to play that role as needed-- but just known I'm not actually mad at you or anything. :).I'll still try to get you banned, of course, if you return to your old ways of reinserting the disputed text -- but I won't hate your guts or anything-- it would just mean you're a good person, just one whose participation is causing more disruption than help.(and seriously, take me up on my offer to have me reinsert it for you if htere's a strong clear consensus--- I really would do it without a second thought.)
Given how much discussion has been spent on the issue, I have to say, I think there's absolutely zero chance that you'll get a consensus on the issue.So, let me suggest to you that short of a consensus, you have one other way to get the text in--- arbitration.I can almost guarantee you that if a consensus of Wikipedians did emerge, I would file a request to have the Arbitration Committee review the situation, because it's so far from my concept of NPOV.I certainly wouldn't begrudge you the same priviledge, so... if you wanted to file a request and get a definitive ruling on whether your disputed text complies with NPOV, if they took the case, I would be happy to step through that process with you, without animosity or anything towards you for filing it.
Lastly, as I've always said-- I'm not trying to make the readers think that Iraq is not part of WOT-- I'm just trying to make the page comply with NPOV.There's nothing wrong with the readers knowing that many people call Iraq part of WOT-- we just can't have Wikipedia being one of those people.To that end, I've written a short paragraph summaring the POV on the issue-- I included the congressional authorization you've pointed me to, mentions of the president's statements.I even did my own research and dug up a strongly worded house resolution that said Iraq is part of WOT and a 2003 poll where 80% of america said Iraq is part of WOT.I hope, perhaps naively, that having a whole paragraph chock full ofexperts, world leaders, and opinion polls saying that Iraq is part of WOT will take some of the pressure off with regard to the desire to have Wikipedia say Iraq as part of WOT.-- Alecmconroy 16:18, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
What concensus?
For Inclusion:
Against
This will be my response to you when you claim a concensus is on your side. --
Nuclear
Zer0 21:09, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
It seems like in every war article, the "good guys" are in section 1, while the "bad guys" are in 2. It seems right to put the coalition into one and the terrorists into 2. — Preceding unsigned comment added by CipherPixy ( talk • contribs)
Rangeley--I'm genuinely sad to inform you that I've decided to file a Request for Arbitration against you for your behavior on Iraq War and related pages.I'm genuinely sorry that we weren't able to see eye-to-eye on this.Since this is never a pleasant process, let me take a moment to say that just because we appear to be advesaries in this limited domain, don't think that extends to me actually thinking badly of you as a person.
Let me apologize again for the "imperative" tone I've had to take lately, or the imperative tone demanded by the RFAr process.It's silly, but I want to assure you I'm in no way "mad" at you or angry with you---to the extend that I was bold and forceful, it was just because I'd hoped that maybe if I was sufficently forceful, maybe we could avoid going through this process. In the end, I was mistaken and the forcefulness didn't help-- so in the end, nothing was gained by me writing in all bold and threatening action against you.So, I'm sorry for any bad blood that may have stirred up.
In the end, the worst I can say about you is that your edits may have placed your duty to your political convinctions, your nation, your planet ahead of your duty to comply with Wikipedia policies-- and in the end, who is to say if that is even a bad thing at all. -- Alecmconroy 17:11, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
I see you tried many many middlegrounds, but circular logic will keep up the nonsense forever. If you have not noted Timeshifter has argued that terrorism cannot appear in the infobox, then says it can at the bottom. They just do not want it at the top, the arguement that WTA isnt being met is false as explained on the RfC, and even their own edits dont look to meet WTA by adding a see also for casus belli, in that case its not being explained at all who says or giving a citation. Hope they do not drive you ove rthe edge, but this is a common tactic, giving what you know the other person isnt interested in, then it always looks like you tried. The truth of the matter is neither have ever stated that its not part of WoT, so neither has given a reason why it should not be in the portion of the template where we list campaigns. Timeshifter will circle around WTA indefinatly even though TheronJ stated he is reading it wrong and that the compromise meet its requirements. So good luck. Seems they only care about admins who are taking their side, quoting Xoloz, but ignoring TheronJ. --
Nuclear
Zer0 11:38, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
I just found Wikipedia:WOT, and now I'm really confused. Tewfik Talk 17:54, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
The Resilient Barnstar
![]() |
The Resilient Barnstar | |
For being resilient in face of attacks on your viewpoint on the Iraq War subtitle debate. For resilience to honor prior agreements on the subtitle. Finally, for agreeing to a compromise position that satisfied all parties yet kept your viewpoint intact. Thanks and nicely done. Publicus 21:17, 8 February 2007 (UTC) |
Hey Rangeley are we going to add the rape accusations to operation Law and order. Top Gun. 22:42, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
That could have several different explainations. For example: Did you know that when a father gives his son his name, the complete name of both of them is the same? Esteban "Lex" Saborío 06:10, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
So palistiens officaly in civil war now. -- J intela 01:04, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
OK he was not killed in action so I put in a template for capital punishment to also be the cross/dager icon, so now when you click on the dager beside Sadam's name it will link you to the article about Capital punishment. OK?-- Top Gun 18 June 2007 (UTC)
I think you are wrong about that, because he was not killed by the "civilian" goverment. He was killed by the Shiia goverment. And Sadam's supporters and Al-Qaeda are still at war with that specific goverment. They are still going at it in the streets. There are open street battles. For God's sake what kind of a civilian goverment is it when it doesn't control more than 60 percent of its capital city. Sadam was killed by the OTHER side. When he was executed his executionars danced around his body is that what a civilian goverment does. and the men that executed him where members of the Mahdi army. One of them said long live Sadr at his execution. And nobody said that the dager icon is an icon specific only to KIA deaths it is only a death icon the main point is to which article we link that icon to the KIA article or capital punishemnt article.-- Top Gun 18 June 2007 (UTC)
As far as I know the war has NOT ended yet. And he WAS a prisoner of war, the whole tryle by a civilian court was all simple propaganda. He WAS a soldier. And, no matter how you say it, he WAS killed by one of the sides in this war, that is still going on. And by what I have seen and heard the civilian goverment you are speking of is not going to last for much longer if this keeps up, IF it ever was a REAL goverment.-- Top Gun 19 June 2007 (UTC)
why do you keep deleting the death date of Mr McMahon he was killed last week — Preceding unsigned comment added by Morthanley ( talk • contribs)
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I only added on the list of combatants Russia because of the Chechens, India because of the large number of terrorist attacks there and their reletionship with India and Turkey because of the PKK, thus I added the PKK, Chechens on the oposite side, you argue that Russia and the Chechens shouldn't be on the list because their war predates this one, well the Moscow theater siege has been put in the campaignbox of the War on terrorism as have all of the other major attacks in Russia since then the scholl sieges for example, and as for the Kurds, there was a siece-fire between 1999 and 2004, the new phase started again in 2004 mid-War on terrorism. Top Gun
I also added Indonesia because of the amoung of attacks there and the international nature of those attacks. Top Gun
You see that's the thing it may have been started by the U.S. but has since become an international conflict not just a U.S. conflict. The Chechens have to be put on the list as well as the PKK, they are both after all designated as terrorist groups by the U.S. Top Gun
OK I agree on that one I will remove Indonesia. But very reluctantly because they have been fighting Yama Islamiya which is the Indonesian branch of Al-qaeda. Top Gun
I second your comments about the POV edits of Anoshirawan ( Talk | contribs), and I have also left a message on his/her talk page. Raoulduke47 has also noted her/his "bizarre POV edits". Khampalak has asked what can be done about it. Is Wikipedia:Requests for comment appropriate? -- Bejnar 17:10, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
I have added the number of injured to the page War on Terrorism casualties. The Honorable Kermanshahi 11:04, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
Ok I support the soldiers + helicopter photo, although I don't understand why not multiple image? Even the Russian-Japanese War and Bosnian War has one. -- TheFEARgod ( Ч) 12:56, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
A single image (albeit typically a painting rather than a photograph, as most wars predate photography) is indeed the most common approach taken. It's largely a factor of the lack of images to use, together with the generally uncontroversial nature of the articles, and of the wars themselves. Quite simply, nobody really cares what image is used in the lead of, say, the Italian War of 1521-1526. The same applies for most wars; the only people concerned with them tend to approach the matter from the standpoint of dry historiography, and view images more as something to add an occasional splash of color to an otherwise bland article than as something to make a statement in its own right.
The problem in your case, is, as I believe I've said before, that the war in question is simply too recent and too controversial to follow the most common practices. An article about it is more a journalistic piece than a historiographical one. A hundred years from now, it will likely be perfectly feasible to arbitrarily pick an image and use it; but, at the present time, any choice is going to be interpreted as emphasizing the image and its particular contents rather than as a question of mere aesthetics. Kirill 02:38, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
The new one we got, Image:Iraq streetfight.jpg, I like the best. The defining characteristic of war is death, and most of the Iraq war hasn't been helicopters in the desert, it's been guns and IEDs on the street. ← BenB4 12:35, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
Hello ! Would you have time to speak about the size of this article. I agree we had to reduce it, but it really seems me little now. The main problem is for me the lack of images, which dosen't deserve attractivity of the article ;( Don't you think that a few ones ll be useful. (For exemple the FA of today = 67.67 Ko) I dont think that it's very important if we add pictures, isn't it ?
Sorried to disturb you for such a stupid subject ^_^ Mrpouetpouet 20:16, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
Since consensus was to merge the two projects into one, I'm removing the redundant wikiBanners on talk pages - I'm still fluid on the actual wording of the "official" WikiProject's banner...but there should only be one, not two. On an unrelated note, is it just me or is it odd that nobody's started a Wikiproject:Iraq War? I imagine that would be one of the most popular groups, it seems. Sherurcij ( Speaker for the Dead) 07:23, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
A request for comments has been filed concerning the conduct of Nescio ( talk · contribs). You are invited to comment on the discussion at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Nescio. -- Isaac Pankonin 11:01, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
You blocked me on Uncyclopedia! You make me sad :( MITB LS ( t· c) 19:58, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
Just kidding! I'm not mad. Uncyclopedia is just a joke anyway! I'll just get back to editing Wikipedia now.
Hey Rangeley, sorry about Image:RonPaul.jpg being removed, Wikipedia:Image use policy says that images which are listed as for non-commercial use only, by permission, or which restrict derivatives are unsuitable for Wikipedia and will be deleted on sight.- the website you got it from said that unaltered use is permitted, which isn't enough, especially when so many free images of Ron Paul exist. Borisblue 03:31, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
Hi Rangley, listen I need your help, you and me and a few other guys discussed a few months ago on the list of combatants that should be put in the infobox there. But there is a problem now. A couple of guys who obviously have no idea what the War on terrorism is all about are insisting on removing the infobox almost entirely, both the combatants list and the casualties list, as if there are no combatants in this war. According to them there is only one combatant and that is America which is utterly stupid. So can you help with the discussion. Thanks. Top Gun 20 November 2007
Since Afghanistan seems to have become a current topic, I've notified wp:milhist and wp:afghanistan with the following:
Your ideas are welcome at: Talk:Afghan_Civil_War#What_needs_to_be_done.3F. Thanx to you.
Maybe you got something worthwhile to throw in. Cheers.-- victor falk ( talk) 18:50, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
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The article War on Terrorism casualties has been nominated for deletion, your input into the discussion over it would be appreciated. 89.216.239.228 ( talk) 00:56, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
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An editor has nominated one or more articles which you have created or worked on, for deletion. The nominated article is War on Terrorism casualties. We appreciate your contributions, but the nominator doesn't believe that the article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in his/her nomination (see also Wikipedia:Notability and " What Wikipedia is not").
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An editor has nominated one or more articles which you have created or worked on, for deletion. The nominated article is Theaters of operation for the War on Terrorism. We appreciate your contributions, but the nominator doesn't believe that the article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in his/her nomination (see also Wikipedia:Notability and " What Wikipedia is not").
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