https://en.m.wikipedia.org/?title=Special:MovePage&action=submit
(Unable to edit, without notice, while requesting a page move per WP instructions.)
Possible pages:
Both are notable for lots of reasons, including being asked to serve or actually serving as head of Nyingma school.
Looking for information on Palri monastery (there isn't a page), one of the original Six Mother Monasteries of the Nyingma school. Not finding much in searches. Wondering about available journals.
"The ruler (zhabs drung) of Chonggye, Hor Sonam Dargye (hor bsod nams dar rgyas, d.u.), who received Sherab Ozer’s teachings of the Sphere of Liberation, became his disciple and conferred upon him the title of official chaplain (ti shri) of the Chonggye court. He repeatedly requested Sherab Ozer to establish a Nyingma monastery on his territory, the location of the ancient Tibetan emperors’s tombs. Sonam Dargye died before seeing his wishes fulfilled. His son and successor, Hor Sonam Tobgye (hor bsod nams stobs rgyas, d.u.) followed his father, and finally Sherab Ozer agreed to establish a Nyingma community in Chonggye."
'Accordingly, the monastery of Pelri Tekchen Ling (dpal ri theg chen gling) was established in 1571 and the Chonggye ruler offered the domain, the properties and the temple’s sacred objects. Dikteng Rinpoche Ngawang Lobzang (sdig stengs rin po che ngag dbang blo bzang, d.u.) was appointed abbot (mkhan po). The community followed both sūtra and tantra, with key-points of practices performed according to the instructions of Longchenpa. The community upheld the traditions of service and attainment (bsnyen sgrub) of the Mahāyoga, the earlier and later treasures, and the treasures of Sherab Ozer and his son."
"As detailed in both the history of Tibet and the autobiography of the Fifth Dalai Lama, Ngawang Lobzang Gyatso (ngag dbang blo bzang rgya mtsho, 1617-1682), born later into the ruling family of Chonggye, Prajñāpāramitā texts, the Life-Story of Padmasambhava (padma bka' thang) and Longchenpa’s works of the Nature of Mind Healing Suffering (sems nyid ngal gso) were printed on the occasion of the consecration of Pelri Monastery."
"Late in his life Sherab Ozer became sick, allegedly due to black magic performed against him by political rivals. He gave his last instructions concerning the funerary treatment of his body, and exhorted his community in this way: You, members of the Buddhist monastic community, devote yourselves mainly and without interruption to study, reflection and meditation for each of the teachings. Engage in practice; face every situation by applying the antidotes [of virtues] without being soiled by the stains of transgressing the three vows [of monastic conduct, bodhisattva and tantric adept]. Consider all sentient beings as your own parents. If you want to establish a connection with me, accomplish the practice of the Sphere of Liberation, Auto-Liberation of Intention and my volume of instructions."
"During his last moments, Sherab Ozer is described as having been continuously immerged in visionary experiences of deities, empowerments, blessings and pure realms. He interpreted that this disease was the result of former bad actions, and that he would be henceforth liberated from their correlative obscuring veils."
"Sherab Ozer intended to transfer his consciousness and leave his body on the tenth day of the sixth Mongol month of the water monkey year (1584). However, his son and successor at the abbacy of Pelri Monastery, Gyelse Karma Kunzang with his wife, children and others, prayed him to stay. As a result he lived three more days, and eventually during the early morning of the thirteenth, he passed away. According to the hagiography, he is said to have unified his mind with Padmasambha in his aspect of Pawochenpo Tope Dumbutsel (dpa' bo chen po thod pa'i dum bu rtsal) in the city of great bliss named Śāntapurī, in the pure realm of Pelri Padma Wo (dpal ri padma 'od)."
"Sherab Ozer was also known as Drodul Lingpa ('gro 'dul gling pa)..." https://treasuryoflives.org/biographies/view/Sherab-Wozer/8964
Chongye Palri Thegchog Ling, monastery, central Tibet; founded by _________ [1]
"Tsele Natsok Rangdrol (body incarnation) (b.1608), Minling Terchen Gyurme Dorje (speech incarnation) (1646-1714), and Pema Dechen Lingpa (mind incarnation) (1627/63-1713)." [2]
Refs [3]
https://www.tibetwatch.org/larung-gar
https://wordsofjigmephuntsok.org/news/news_290720/
https://www.rfa.org/english/news/tibet/yachen-demolition-10012019181505.html?searchterm:utf8:ustring=%20Tibet https://www.rfa.org/english/news/tibet/sichuan-yachengar-08282019173854.html?searchterm:utf8:ustring=%20Tibet
Tashi Choedron, Navigating the experiences of detained Tibetan Nuns of Yachen Gar in Tibet, (06 August 2019) Tashi Choedon, https://tibetpolicy.net/navigating-the-experiences-of-detained-tibetan-nuns-of-yachen-gar-in-tibet/
https://www.rfa.org/english/news/tibet/nun-02142020172455.html?searchterm:utf8:ustring=%20Tibet
https://www.rfa.org/english/news/tibet/nuns-12062019173001.html?searchterm:utf8:ustring=%20Tibet
https://tibet.net/us-state-department-calls-for-the-immediate-release-of-tibets-panchen-lama/ "The statement issued on April 26 by Heather Nauert, [US State] Department Spokesperson read: “On April 25, we marked the birthday of the 11th Panchen Lama, Gedhun Choekyi Nyima, who has not appeared in public since he was reportedly abducted two decades ago by the Chinese government at age six. The United States remains concerned that Chinese authorities continue to take steps to eliminate the religious, linguistic, and cultural identity of Tibetans, including their ongoing destruction of communities of worship, such as the Larung Gar and Yachen Gar monasteries. We call on China to release Gedhun Choekyi Nyima immediately and to uphold its international commitments to promote religious freedom for all persons.”
https://www.voanews.com/east-asia-pacific/china-places-new-controls-center-tibetan-buddhist-studies Also start of demo https://www.voanews.com/east-asia-pacific/abbot-urges-monks-against-protest-china-razes-buddhist-academy https://www.voanews.com/east-asia/chinese-workers-dismantle-tibetan-study-site-evict-people
Other centers, political prisoners https://www.rfa.org/english/news/tibet/centers-01022020164534.html?searchterm:utf8:ustring=%20Tibet
https://www.rfa.org/english/monk-death-03192020193829.html?searchterm:utf8:ustring=%20Tibet
http://www.tibettravel.org/tibet-group-tours/4-days-lhasa-tour.html Sera & Drepung monastery 'tours'
Tibet Society missing poster, 2015 https://tibetsociety.com/disappeared-tibets-panchen-lama
Only photo note (verify) Video https://www.rfa.org/english/video?v=1_3tv710jq
https://tibet.net/where-is-11th-panchen-lama-bbc-broadcasts-the-image-of-11th-panchen-lama-24-years-after-the-abduction-by-chinese-government/ "...the fact that he plays an essential role in the recognition and education of Dalai Lamas, and vice-versa apparently makes his disappearance politically crucial for the Chinese Government..."
"Today, there are two Panchen Lamas, one recognised by His Holiness the Dalai Lama and respected by all Tibetans and another six-year-old picked and installed by the Chinese government, known as Panchen “Zuma” Fake Panchen." "Given Chinese statement of Gendun Choekyi Nyima, the 11th Panchen Lama, leading a “normal life as an ordinary Child”, there are some pressing questions that the Chinese authority must address to the international community. Firstly, what makes China keep on declining the request of the international community, including UN human rights mandate holders, to see Gendun Choekyi Nyima?" "Secondly, If Gendun Choekyi Nyima is leading a normal life as China claims, why has he been not seen in a public place?"
"After nearly 25 years, the deep concern for the well-being and whereabouts of Tibet’s Panchen Lama continues and with the availability of one picture of His Holiness the Panchen Lama, ITN’s new project on the Forensic Image of Panchen Lama has sparked interest and excitement amongst many Tibetans and supporters. Moreover, BBC’s interest in the case of the missing Panchen Lama and the new forensic image has made a short film called ‘Where is Panchen Lama?’ for ‘ The One Show’, a primetime UK programme."
https://www.dalailama.com/news/archive/2008/3
https://www.tibetanreview.net/the-2008-uprising-and-the-olympics/
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/mar/24/tibet.olympicgames2008
https://www.theguardian.com/world/gallery/2008/mar/14/1
https://freedomhouse.org/report/2017/battle-china-spirit-tibetan-buddhism-religious-freedom
"The Dalai Lama released a statement on Friday [14?] calling on both sides to avoid violence and appealing to China’s leaders to “address the long simmering resentment of the Tibetan people through dialogue with the Tibetan people.” A spokesman for the Dalai Lama called China’s accusations “absolutely baseless.” "
"In the past China has not hesitated to crush major protests in Tibet or to jail disobedient monks. President Hu Jintao, who is also the general secretary of the Communist Party, served as party boss in Tibet during a violent crackdown in 1989. His support for the bloody suppression of unrest that year earned him the good will of Deng Xiaoping, then the paramount leader, and led directly to his elevation to the Politburo Standing Committee and eventually to China’s top leadership posts."
Palden Gyatso article, NYT link https://www.voanews.com/south-central-asia/tibetan-monk-tortured-3-decades-chinas-prisons-dies
Statement of His Holiness the Dalai Lama on the Sixth Anniversary of the Tibetan National Uprising Day https://www.dalailama.com/messages/tibet/10th-march-archive/1965#
CTA on Xi https://www.rfa.org/english/news/tibet/sinicize-08312020195200.html?searchterm:utf8:ustring=%20Tibet
VOA on Sinicization 03SEP2020 https://www.voanews.com/east-asia-pacific/rights-groups-slam-xis-latest-calls-sinicize-tibetan-buddhism "International rights groups and officials of the Tibetan government in exile say Chinese President Xi Jinping's latest calls to "Sinicize" Tibetan Buddhism are a threat to Tibetan identity and culture." "Xi's comments came at a recent senior Communist Party meeting on Tibet’s future governance, where the president said Beijing must build an “impregnable fortress” to maintain stability in Tibetan Autonomous Region (TAR) and Tibetan areas in Sichuan, Yunnan, Gansu and Qinghai provinces. He also called for enhancing China’s national security by educating the masses in the struggle against "splittism," or deviating from the party’s official policies." "China has long viewed Tibetan Buddhism as a source of “separatist power,” which Beijing has targeted with "reeducational patriotism" campaigns that force Tibetan monks to denounce Tibet's exiled spiritual leader, the Dalai Lama." "In the past decade or so, the Communist Party of China (CCP) officials have been posted in major TAR monasteries and communities closer to China, such as Larung Gar in Sichuan province, one of the world’s foremost centers of Tibetan Buddhist study." "Xi's vow to build a "new modern socialist Tibet that is united, prosperous, culturally advanced, harmonious and beautiful" would be achieved primarily via secondary school reforms that “plant the seeds of loving China deep in the heart of every youth." And by "actively [guiding] Tibetan Buddhism to adapt to the socialist society and promote the Sinicization of Tibetan Buddhism,” Xi said." " "No one is fooled by his claims that these policies respect Tibetans or Buddhism," [Sophie Richardson, HRWChina] said." "Broadly defined, Sinicization is a campaign to reform or mold the belief systems and doctrine of any religious faith into compliance with CPC values." "In 2015, Xi discussed a plan to Sinicize the beliefs of the five largest religious groups in China: Buddhism, Daoism, Catholicism, Protestantism and Islam." "In 2014, Chen Quanguo, then-CPC secretary of TAR, said “the government must actively promote intermarriages,” between Tibetans and Chinese in order to promote “ethnic unity.”" Matteo Mecacci, director of the U.S.-based International Campaign for Tibet, recently told Reuters that Xi's remarks are an indication of China's failure to integrate Tibet into Chinese society." " “If Tibetans really benefited as much from Chinese leadership as Xi and other officials claim, then China wouldn’t have to fear separatism and wouldn’t need to subject Tibetans to political reeducation,” he said in an email, according to Reuters."
https://apnews.com/article/0e489e69ba7c7985f300720196f620e3
Forced labor camps (06 October 2020), https://www.contactmagazine.net/articles/thousands-of-tibetans-coerced-into-forced-labour/
https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/08/31/tibet-china-repression-xinjiang-sinicization/
https://www.voanews.com/south-central-asia/tibetan-re-education-camp-journal-tells-chinas-tactics-now-used-uighurs Image https://im-media.voltron.voanews.com/Drupal/01live-166/styles/608x401/s3/2019-06/B863B870-F666-4AEE-94A4-36BB91FE60F3.jpg?itok=pONyhxzm "At the Sog County “reform through re-education center” in Nagchu Prefecture of the Tibetan Autonomous Region, “Those who the officials didn’t like would be captured and tortured with electronic devices. When they become unconscious, [the torturers] would splash water on their faces until their victims regained their consciousness. After doing that for a long time, they would use a black rubber tube as well as electronic baton to torture people. The bruised bodies of the prisoners turned blue and black, and people become half-dead. For some [strange] reason, their bones were not broken." "Cultural anthropologist, historian and University of Colorado professor, Carole McGranahan, the author of “Arrested History: Tibet, the CIA and Memories of a Forgotten War,” reviewed the journal and found it an “authentic recounting of what it is like to be a prisoner in a re-education camp in Tibet.”" " "The details given correspond to our understanding of what such re-education centers look like, and these re-education camps, detention camps, internment camps are found not only in Tibet but right now, [in] 2019, there are also many in which Uighurs — Uighur Muslims — are prisoners in Xinjiang as well. So we are seeing this in both Tibet and Xinjiang,” she told VOA." " “Tibet is the precursor to what is happening,” McGranahan said. “The Chinese architect of the Uighur ‘re-education’ or concentration camps is Chen Quanguo. Where was he before Xinjiang? In Tibet from 2011-2016, in charge of surveilling, policing and oppressing Tibetans." "
Here's good RS on Chinese monitoring, censoring, and crackdowns on online speech under Xi Jinping: the social media crackdown in 2013 [5], and on the 39 Chinese companies agreeing to aid in censoring efforts in 2011 [6], and (live link?) [7], and on the 2 million "public opinion analysts" hired to help in 2013 [8], and on Xi's intensified crackdowns in 2016 against "dissenting versions" of China's history [9].
Here's more good RS on China's censoring of BBC affiliates and their blocking of access to English Wikipedia as well as Chinese Wikipedia before Xi in 2008, [10] which includes mention of blocking access to sites that report on Tibet, But other domains are still blocked, The BBC says, including sites for the Hong Kong newspaper Apple Daily, human rights groups like Amnesty International, and organizations promoting Tibetan independence..
Another on China's blocking Wikipedia, from 2006, [11] and a quotation, The Communist Party polices these emerging Internet communities with censors and undercover agents, and manages a Web site that it said received nearly a quarter-million anonymous tips about "harmful information" online last year. But the methods the party uses to control speech and behavior in the real world have proved less effective in cyberspace, where people get away with more, and where the government is often a step behind. When authorities catch up, citizens often have already weakened the party's grip on public life and succeeded in expanding civil society. They have organized charity drives for rural schoolchildren and mobilized students for anti-Japanese protest marches. And they learned to work together to write an encyclopedia. The point? China has a history of blocking access to English Wikipedia, and is censoring reports on history which involves China.
China also has a history of blocking access to BBC China. Here's a good RS on the 2008 Tibetan uprising in Lhasa and clashes with Chinese security forces, which is offered as an illustration of the unreliability of Chinese state media, as versus the reliability of BBC UK in reporting on the events, including the mention of difficulties in verifying reports due to Chinese controls: [12] with quotations, 'Eighty killed' in Tibetan unrest... Chinese troops were out in force in Lhasa on Sunday...At least 80 people have been killed in unrest following protests by Tibetans against Chinese rule, the Tibetan government in exile says. Indian-based officials said the figure was confirmed by several sources, even though China put the death toll at 10. The Dalai Lama called for an international inquiry into China's crackdown, accusing it of a "rule of terror" and "cultural genocide". Chinese troops were out in force in Lhasa, Tibet's main city, on Sunday. Hong Kong Cable TV reported that about 200 military vehicles, each carrying 40 to 60 armed soldiers, had driven into the city. Loudspeakers broadcast messages, such as: "Discern between enemies and friends, maintain order." China tightly restricts Western journalists' access to Tibet and it is sometimes extremely difficult to verify what is going on. The Chinese official news agency Xinhua says 10 people died on Friday, including business people it said were "burnt to death". But the Tibetan government in exile later said at least 80 corpses had been counted, including those of 26 people killed on Saturday next to the Dratchi prison in Lhasa. Other bodies were spotted near the Ramoche Buddhist temple, and near a Muslim mosque and a cathedral in Lhasa, said Tenzin Taklha, a senior aide to the Dalai Lama. "These reports come from relatives, from our people inside and from contacts of our department of security. They have all been confirmed multiple times," he said. In an interview with the BBC, the Dalai Lama, the Tibetan spiritual leader, said he feared there would be more deaths unless Beijing changed its policies towards Tibet, which it has ruled since invading in 1950. "It has become really very, very tense. Now today and yesterday, the Tibetan side is determined. The Chinese side also equally determined. So that means, the result: killing, more suffering," he said. "Ultimately, the Chinese government is clinging of policy, not looking at the reality. They simply feel they have gun - so they can control. Obviously they can control. But they cannot control human mind," he warned.
Based on this report and the other RS, the Chinese state controlled efforts to censor media also extends outside the internet and into the communities of Tibet, into which foreigners are denied access.
In the last few days, four different pages related to Tibet in the English Wikipedia project have been reverted by an editor, responsible for deleting RS and associated text. The RS included reports from BBC, The Statesman (India), International Campaign for Tibet, Free Tibet, governmental entities Central Tibetan Administration and UNESCO, International Tibet Post, The Tibet Post, and from UNPO. On a page entitled the 11th Panchen Lama controversy, the remaining RS detailing the 1995 abduction and forced disappearance by China of the recognized Panchen Lama were from a Chinese source (without translation) and from a criticised academic source, among another also without verifiability, found likewise on other pages. Image files were also deleted. One of the images was reinserted.
In 2020, RS indicate the abduction and forced disappearance of the Panchen Lama continue to be condemned by the international community - recently, by 159 international organizations acting together with the UN - but the deleted RS and text also removed this information.
The given reason? The editor opined all the RS were from "advocacy groups", without providing RS to support the opinion. No additional reason was given for deleting the image files.
In 2008 China blocked sites that report on Tibet, and then intensified efforts in 2016 to crackdown on "dissenting" versions of history. Sources that support the Chinese government's censored version of events also effectively advocate for censored versions of history.
In this editor's opinion (allowed on talk), the reverts and deletions on the pages follow a exceedingly similar patterns used by China's state controlled media outlets, which can be defined as advocacy groups, and by its corps of "public opinion analysts" to block access to information or to the reporting of historical events which China deems "dissenting".
WP:Library https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:The_Wikipedia_Library/OA
Study Buddhism [13]
Treasury of Lives, bios [14] search [15]
AP news https://apnews.com/article/0e489e69ba7c7985f300720196f620e3
40 reverts/reedits/deletions of refs on 4 pages + Nyingchi = 45 and 5. At least.
C+BoC C edits [16] Pasdecomplot ( talk) 08:09, 20 November 2020 (UTC)
tt [19] and BLP tag #Tangential Notice [20] involved discussion [21]. WP:INVOLVED at tt, BLP, WP:WW attempt at ElC. self [22]
Cu response; eee PA [23] "IMO an extremely bad answer. Someone please protect the other editor from this ongoing harrassment by PDC, as I cannot. —valereee (talk) 13:42, 2 October 2020 (UTC)". Zeal and reply (not accessible in searches) unanswered [24]. Involved but [25]
Bk involved 14Nov [26] but closes 17Nov [27]
Advice after Cu [28]
Pasdecomplot ( talk) 08:17, 20 November 2020 (UTC)
C=T
Followed into RfN, and then DR; states doesn't know topic, does not read refs; Deleted ref at DR [29] with tagging; Sanction joex encore ?
DRAFT TEXT The ANI is completely without merit as it's a coatrack of diffs crafted together with an alleged "concern" about good faith.
Most recently, the involved admin, with a history of coordinating with an author of a blatant PA, has stepped actively and aggressively into two requests for moves [30] [31] in a topic area for which they admit (see above) to not having knowledge. The admin has previously been warned by El_C to either edit or admin pages, not both. Then while again blending roles, the admin ignored a blatant PA, then mischaracterized edits as "edit waring" then doubled down to further mischaracterize the events as "disruptive editing", then tripled down to mischaracterize the complaint of the PA itself as a personal attack, then quadrupled down to bring it to ANI.
Which makes the notice all the more curious since good faith is always assumed. But, PA's are not defined in policy as examples of "good faith", nor are repeated unfounded accusations of personal attacks and accusations of disruptive editing, nor are disturbing messages left by the involved admin on talk (02OCT on talk [32] then [33] then [34]. Then on another talk [35] then [36]).
To detail why the ANI is especially inappropriate at this time, a blantant PA was found on a request for move (that also totally mischaracterized posting of diffs showing work by the editor responsible for moving the page without CON). The PA was deleted, per policy [37] The author of the PA posts the same PA again, and deletes the text citing reasons the PA was deleted [38]. The reposting of blatant PA was again deleted per policy [39]. Author of PA posts same PA for the third time [40]. The very involved admin then mischaracterizes the policy-approved deletion of PA as "edit waring" [41]. The failure to cite the blatant PA by the involved admin is made [42], and the complaint of the PA, which was deleted by the author of the PA, was posted here [43] and on the talk where it was first posted [44]. The admin further mischaracterizes quotes of PA as a personal attack from me [45] and both involved admin and author of blatant PA accuse me of disruptive editing and personal attacks on my user talk [46].
An ANI citing "concerns" for good faith is not in any way appropriate, and especially not appropriate for these repeated unaddressed blatant PA's by another editor, nor for escalating mischaracterizations by both the involved admin and the author of the repeated blatant PA's.
You did not get a response to this question. If you have a problem like that again, report it at WP:VPT.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 20:57, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
"Hooping"
[47]
The block/ban submitted by an involved administrator [48] is not necessary since the ANI text is comprised of accusations of incivility which are not supported by diffs, and/or are inaccurate versions of events.
Blocks are for serious disruptions to the project, and not to be used to punish or retaliate, as in WP:NOPUNISH. The request for a block appears to be a punishment for disagreeing with POV on 12Nov [49]. The earlier archived ANI appears to stem from the involved admin's accusation of edit warring and accusation of PA, both of which are proven to be false by the diffs I provided at ANI [50] before it was archived.
The archiving signifies the accusations were not convincing.
Somehow, it was reopened with the "advice" of the future closer [51], which heightens concerns of WP:ADMINCONDUCT, of WP:INVOLVED, and of WP:TOOLMISUSE, which are ongoing [52] (seen towards the bottom). Simultaneously, a request for information on an IBAN was not answered [53].
As a recent contributor beginning from June, I had to learn about policy while editing. After being wrongly blocked by the same involved admin, I went to another area of the project to avoid constant harassment [54] and interaction.
On 10Sep, I began interacting with an involved editor [55] and my attempts at navigating through their chronic behaviors [56] were criticised. I listened, learned and responded to advice to "tone it down" by 29Sep [57], and then explained policies on good faith while attempting to clear myself and have the other editor's behaviors addressed by 03oct [58], but was unsuccessful [59]. I received another PA there from the involved admin [60], and more PA/harassment diffs are at the ANI [61].
Regardless, I changed per advice, as seen in these diffs: [62] and [63] and [64] and [65].
This accurate version of events and the changes I made are omitted from the block request, which instead wrongly portrays another story.
Also missing are the series of events at two requests for moves, which I either initiated or participated in, directly linked to the 07Nov ANI and the 14Nov request for block. I detailed these events at ANI [66] but its significance was maybe not understood. The completely mischaracterized presentation by the involved admin was not closely examined, possibly since they are an administrator [67].
Nor was the history of coordinations between the involved admin and involved editor examined: [68] and [69] and [70] and [71], and the infamous double accusation [72] and [73].
These are the reasons the block/ban is not necessary: it was made based on mischaracterizations of events, on omitted previous changes to behaviors, and on an inaccurate rendering of the history of harassment and PA's by the involved admin, after which I attempted to avoid all interaction. I've already stopped the behaviors, and have also recently learned there are other forums at which to bring issues as detailed here, instead of edit summaries. Thank you.
__________________
inaccurate portrayals of "ongoing" behaviors deftly manages to mischaracterize the role of the involved administrator(s) that submitted the request, and their coordinations with an editor that is directly connected to all of the events.
_____________ Additionally,
behaviors were previously addressed by 03 oct, and were stopped.
Also, the block does not conform to block policy in that it continues to show apparent issues of WP:ADMINCONDUCT and apparent issues of WP:INVOLVED, leading to more concerns of WP:TOOLMISUSE.
Blocks are for serious disruptions to the project, and not to be used to punish an editor or to retaliate, as in WP:NOPUNISH. The reopening of the closed ANI and its request for the block was presented by an involved admin [74] using misleading and inaccurate information, and appears to be a punishment for disagreeing with POV on 12Nov [75]. Its portrayal of "ongoing" behavior issues is incorrect. While NOTTHEM is very clear about what to say and not say at a unblock request, it's nearly impossible to explain the inaccuracies without an accurate portrayal of events.
After the archiving of the ANI, the block was requested at its reopening on 14Nov, then granted on 17Nov. Being that the characterization is incorrect, it's also difficult to simply provide a mea culpa, while the diffs provided here evidence the accurate portrayal including the previous behaviors.
Additionally, issues of INVOLVED may have spread to what was then the future closer of the ANI [76] by the involved admin [77], as evidenced in the text at the reopened ANI on 14Nov. Although the "advice" appears to technically meet policy, the appearance of a conflict of interest is of increasing concern, and presented for review below.
To better explain, before the ANI, the issues with assuming good faith were already addressed by 29 Sep [78] and the advice of "toning it down" was closely followed. A throrough presentation of what constitutes good faith vs bad faith at the project was presented by 03 Oct [79], afterwhich I incorporated the concerns into edit summaries and into civility practices in dealing with an editor [80] and in general throughout the project. The changes are evidenced by the diffs of numerous talk requests here [81] and [82] and [83] and [84], and at numerous other pages where I've edited, without mass reverts using an admin rollback tool, and without conflict or issues.[108]
Which brings us to the inaccurate portrayal of events and behaviors within the ANI. If I hadn't changed and responded in good faith to the raised issue of not accusing others of "bad faith" in edit summaries, then this request to UNBLOCK would be much different. But, when the same editor repeated the mass rollback reverts, and didn't respond to multiple talk page discussions (in diffs above), it seemed necessary to remind them of using good faith, a reminder which was made in good faith.
A troubling result of the ANI's inaccurate portrayal is the absence of text and diffs revealing the apparent coordination between the involved admin and the editor (another mass rollback revert [85], labelling the reverted page as a BLP [86] and coordination again [87] and a PA here [88]), all of which occurred before 03oct.
While earlier verifying sources at RSN in good faith, and discussing in good faith NOTABLE vs COATRACK at BLPN, both editor and involved admin also entered discussions I'd begun or was involved in, including a later request for move on 24Oct. Meanwhile, the involved admin began a counter-move request on 31Oct for a correction move I made that day.
I've been editing with good faith, and have learned, and am still learning, about various policies while contributing since June. I value the work on the project. I'm very careful about personal attacks, and delete PA's and harassment's from the user page, including those by the involved admin listed in the ANI. Then, in 05Nov, the editor made a personal attack, three times via reverts (as detailed here
[89] The PA was deleted, per policy[610]. The author of the PA posts the same PA again, and deletes the text citing reasons the PA was deleted[611]. The reposting of blatant PA was again deleted per policy[612]. The author of the PA posts same PA for the third time[613]
) in a request for move. For following policy in deleting PA's, I was accused by the involved admin of edit warring, then of disruptive editing by the editor, and accused of a PA by the involved admin for quoting the PA, in an apparent double accusation, without diffs, by the editor
[90]and by the involved admin
[91].
Unfortunately, the apparent coordination by the involved admin and the editor is the common denominator throughout the ANI, and throughout the accurate portrayal of events here [120] and at the original ANI [121].
These events at the requests for moves directly predated the ANI, but were not described by the involved admin. Blocks from June were also not mentioned, which caused an editor at ANI to question why the information was missing.
As such, the block/ban is not necessary since it was administered based on an incomplete and inaccurate portrayal of events, from June through to 03Oct, and then through to 14Nov. It is also inaccurate in not mentioning the events occuring between 07Nov and 14Nov, as the ANI was posted, closed, and then reopened.
Created also is an inaccurate portrayal of the changes in behaviors and the ongoing efforts to abide by civility norms when faced by chronic behavior issues of another editor, behaviors leading to issues that I do not initiate, but only deal with after they begin.
A few questions as to the validity of the block had emerged and were addressed, then just reemerged as a potentially serious issue worthy of a review. The text is added: Did you read WP:NOTTHEM? Because this comment does violate it and further violates your restriction against speculating about the motives of others, specifically the above message indicates that editor is inappropriately crawling through this talk page. Barkeep49 (talk) 16:30, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
So sorry. I don't understand where the speculation about motive is in the statement, since it's not about motives. It addresses results: "inappropriately" is not a speculation about the editor's motives, but a description of the digging through discussion threads to find the diffs used in the draft, which would be appropriate at ANI but not on a draft for ANI on a user's talk page. I am not addressing motives, since I have no idea what that editor's motives are; "crawling" also doesn't seem to be a speculation about motives. Please help me to understand how the phrase is a violation. After reading that editor's exchange with Flickotown, knowing about warring with Horse Eye's Back and Amigao, and reading that editor's statement just above, as in "launching a slew of grievances against others" which *definitely* speculates about motives, I thought the statement no different or possibly gentler than the others used. But, if you could help me to understand Barkeep49, I'd appreciate it a lot. I'll also read NOTTHEM again. Thanks. Pasdecomplot (talk) 17:18, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
I'm willing to concede the language might have just been loaded with negative connotations rather than outright speculating on motives. It certainly doesn't assume good faith of others. Barkeep49 (talk) 17:36, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
Just to check that we read the same edit: that editor pinged you to block me from my user talk, as I've been drafting a request for ANI. Might you possibly explain Barkeep49 in what way did that editor assume good faith, or where good faith from that editor is in evidence? I really need to understand. Thanks. Pasdecomplot (talk) 17:45, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
Yes we read the same edit. While you're blocked you should not be preparing to take others to ANI. Any attempts to take them to ANI by you will have to wait until your block is over. What's more important at the moment is how you are, or aren't, assuming that others are also assuming good faith. Barkeep49 (talk) 18:16, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
Thanks for responding. I didn't mention that the concession is appreciated. But, what the recent request for clarification is centered on is the statement: "It certainly doesn't assume good faith of others." To describe an event as it occurred doesn't involve assumptions of good faith or bad faith. Events occurred and are described. What's confusing is that it seems I am to understand from your responses that even describing a series of events, as have undeniably occurred, will be mischaracterized as speculating on motives, and as not assuming good faith? I ask since you've offered to post the request to overturn the block, which in itself now seems to be misunderstood as an ANI report: "While you're blocked you should not be preparing to take others to ANI. Any attempts to take them to ANI by you will have to wait until your block is over." All of which brings me again to the question, and deepens the concerns, noted at the beginning of this discussion thread and sent to ProcrastinatingReader, of whether or not there's an issue with pre-involvement. From a technical understanding, not, but from a practical understanding based on the responses in question, the concerns have not been alleviated but heightened.
, from [122], as seen towards the bottom of the discussion.
These heightened ADMINCONDUCT, INVOLVED, and TOOLMISUSE concerns are not accusations of bad faith whatsoever, but only concerns based on the stated intentions behind policies governing blocks. It certainly appears as if there might be a conflict of interest and involvement. If the review agrees with this concern, then the block/ban could be found as invalid.
Possibly worth mentioning in this context, before the ANI was unarchived, I asked about an IBAN on the involved admin but didn't receive a response [123], and thus didn't even know the request for reopening was successful, after checking a few times.
Thank you for your attention. I promise to continue to edit in good faith, to continue to not accuse others of "bad faith", and to begin using appropriate forums when dealing with issues that cannot be solved through good faith talk page discussions.
Thank you for your attention. The block and ban are not necessary, and the block does not conform to block policy in that it continues to show apparent issues of WP:ADMINCONDUCT and apparent issues of WP:INVOLVED, leading to more concerns of WP:TOOLMISUSE.
Blocks are for serious disruptions to the project, and not to be used to punish an editor or to retaliate, as in WP:NOPUNISH. The request for the block was presented by an involved admin [92] using misleading and inaccurate information, and appears to be a punishment for disagreeing with POV on 12Nov [93]. An accurate portrayal of the events makes it difficult to agree with the inaccurate premises of the block request granted on 14Nov, and difficult to simply provide here a mea culpa, while the diffs provided here evidence the accurate portrayal.
Additionally, issues of INVOLVED spread to the future closer of the ANI [94] by the involved admin [95], as evidenced in the text at the reopened ANI. Although the "advice" appears to technically meet policy, the appearance of a conflict of interest is of increasing concern.
To better explain, before the ANI, the issues with assuming good faith were already addressed by 29 Sep [96] and the advice of "toning it down" was closely followed. A throrough presentation of what constitutes good faith vs bad faith at the project was presented by 03 Oct [97], afterwhich I incorporated the concerns into edit summaries and into civility practices in dealing with other editors [98]. The changes are evidenced by the diffs of numerous talk requests here [99] and [100] and [101] and [102], and at numerous other pages where I've edited without the editor's mass reverts using their admin tool.
Which brings us to the inaccurate portrayal of events and behaviors within the ANI. If I hadn't changed and responded in good faith to the raised issue of not accusing others of "bad faith" in edit summaries, then this request to UNBLOCK would be much different. When the same editor repeated the mass reverts, and didn't respond to multiple talk discussions (in diffs above), I had to remind them of using good faith, a reminder which was made in good faith.
A troubling result of the ANI's inaccurate portrayal is the absence of text and diffs revealing the apparent coordination between the involved admin and the editor (ongoing mass reverts using an admin tool [103], labelling reverted page as a BLP [104] and coordination again [105] and a PA here [106]). While verifying sources at RSN, and at BLPN, both have also entered discussions I've begun or was involved in, including a request for move, while the involved admin began a counter-move request for a move.
I've been editing with good faith, and have learned about various policies since June. I'm very careful about personal attacks, and delete PA's from the user page. When the editor made a personal attack (three times via reverts as detailed here
[107] The PA was deleted, per policy[610]. The author of the PA posts the same PA again, and deletes the text citing reasons the PA was deleted[611]. The reposting of blatant PA was again deleted per policy[612]. The author of the PA posts same PA for the third time[613]
) in a request for move. For following policy in deleting PA's, I was accused by the involved admin of edit warring, then of disruptive editing by the editor, and accused of a PA by the involved admin for quoting the PA, in an apparent double accusation, without diffs, by the editor
[108]and by the involved admin
[109]. The apparent coordination by the involved admin and the editor is the common denominator throughout the ANI, and throughout the accurate portrayal of events here
[110] and at the original ANI
[111].
As such, the block/ban is not necessary since it was placed based on an inaccurate portrayal of events. And it was placed for an inaccurate portrayal of the efforts to abide by civility norms when faced by chronic behavior issues of another editor. In addition, the validity of the block had emerged, then just reemerged as a potentially serious issue: Did you read WP:NOTTHEM? Because this comment does violate it and further violates your restriction against speculating about the motives of others, specifically the above message indicates that editor is inappropriately crawling through this talk page. Barkeep49 (talk) 16:30, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
So sorry. I don't understand where the speculation about motive is in the statement, since it's not about motives. It addresses results: "inappropriately" is not a speculation about the editor's motives, but a description of the digging through discussion threads to find the diffs used in the draft, which would be appropriate at ANI but not on a draft for ANI on a user's talk page. I am not addressing motives, since I have no idea what that editor's motives are; "crawling" also doesn't seem to be a speculation about motives. Please help me to understand how the phrase is a violation. After reading that editor's exchange with Flickotown, knowing about warring with Horse Eye's Back and Amigao, and reading that editor's statement just above, as in "launching a slew of grievances against others" which *definitely* speculates about motives, I thought the statement no different or possibly gentler than the others used. But, if you could help me to understand Barkeep49, I'd appreciate it a lot. I'll also read NOTTHEM again. Thanks. Pasdecomplot (talk) 17:18, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
I'm willing to concede the language might have just been loaded with negative connotations rather than outright speculating on motives. It certainly doesn't assume good faith of others. Barkeep49 (talk) 17:36, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
Just to check that we read the same edit: that editor pinged you to block me from my user talk, as I've been drafting a request for ANI. Might you possibly explain Barkeep49 in what way did that editor assume good faith, or where good faith from that editor is in evidence? I really need to understand. Thanks. Pasdecomplot (talk) 17:45, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
Yes we read the same edit. While you're blocked you should not be preparing to take others to ANI. Any attempts to take them to ANI by you will have to wait until your block is over. What's more important at the moment is how you are, or aren't, assuming that others are also assuming good faith. Barkeep49 (talk) 18:16, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
Thanks for responding. I didn't mention that the concession is appreciated. But, what the recent request for clarification is centered on is the statement: "It certainly doesn't assume good faith of others." To describe an event as it occurred doesn't involve assumptions of good faith or bad faith. Events occurred and are described. What's confusing is that it seems I am to understand from your responses that even describing a series of events, as have undeniably occurred, will be mischaracterized as speculating on motives, and as not assuming good faith? I ask since you've offered to post the request to overturn the block, which in itself now seems to be misunderstood as an ANI report: "While you're blocked you should not be preparing to take others to ANI. Any attempts to take them to ANI by you will have to wait until your block is over." All of which brings me again to the question, and deepens the concerns, noted at the beginning of this discussion thread and sent to ProcrastinatingReader, of whether or not there's an issue with pre-involvement. From a technical understanding, not, but from a practical understanding based on the responses in question, the concerns have not been alleviated but heightened.
, from
[112], as seen towards the bottom of the discussion.
This request to overturn the Ban and Block from 17NOV is based on the serious problems with the ANI presented by Valereee, most notably the sweeping accusation of "ongoing" behavior problems. The position is not an accurate portrayal of the issue, and is an incomplete rendering of events as well as an inaccurate assessment of my current editing on Wikipedia.
The accusations and generalizations together with diffs purporting to be evidence of the accusations happen to effectively avoid the actual source of chronic behavior problems: CaradhrasAiguo, the editor connected directly or indirectly to Valereee's diffs.
There's also a valid concern of a lack of pinging on the reopened ANI after I pinged EdJohnston on El_C's talk, which wasn't answered [113], which aided in my misunderstanding that it wasn't reopened, since I had also asked about an interaction ban. Thus, I didn't participate in the discussion after checking if it was progressing and not receiving any pings. And, the ANI process needs to be approached with respect and with care.
Although the involved administrator Valereee has gained the trust of their colleagues, as they say [114], and thus, possibly, their version of events becomes credible by default, their ANI misrepresents events and manages to obscure behaviors by CaradhrasAiguo, and by Valereee themself. The ANI also echos an earlier attempt by Valereee to misrepresent a BLP topic ban in order to extend a block on editing.
At ANI, Valereee's diffs obscure this accurate portrayal and current picture, and are misleading.
What all of this signifies is that I have listened, learned, and changed, and that the ANI was a serious misrepresentation of events by an involved administrator, Valereee, which omitted their role in creating (and even churning) accusations and in coordinating with another editor, CaradhrasAiguo. And, it signifies that the judgement by the participants was unfortunately based on these same misrepresentations and omissions. As such, and given the accurate portrayal provided here and provided earlier at ANI, I request that the Block be lifted since it was enacted based on incomplete and misrepresented information. I also request the Ban likewise be lifted, for the same reasons, and also since it is too broad of a ban and not defined enough so as to prevent misuse, by Valereee or others as happened in September.
Thank you for your consideration.
Pasdecomplot ( talk) 23:28, 20 November 2020 (UTC)
Chuckie WP:ONUS The diffs indicate issues of WP:HOUND ("Hounding on Wikipedia (or "wikihounding") is the singling out of one or more editors, joining discussions on multiple pages or topics they may edit or multiple debates where they contribute, to repeatedly confront or inhibit their work. This is with an apparent aim of creating irritation, annoyance, or distress to the other editor. Hounding usually involves following the target from place to place on Wikipedia ." " The important component of hounding is disruption to another user's own enjoyment of editing, or disruption to the project generally, for no overridingly constructive reason.") and issues of WP:TEND ("Thus a single edit is unlikely to be a problem, but a pattern of edits displaying a bias is more likely to be an issue, and repeated biased edits to a single article or group of articles will be very unwelcome indeed." "Problems arise when editors see their own bias as neutral, and especially when they assume that any resistance to their edits is founded in bias towards an opposing point of view. The perception that “he who is not for me is against me” is contrary to Wikipedia’s assume good faith guideline" "There is nothing wrong with questioning the reliability of sources, to a point. But there is a limit to how far one may reasonably go in an effort to discredit the validity of what most other contributors consider to be reliable sources, especially when multiple sources are being questioned in this manner. This may take the form of arguing about the number of or validity of the information cited by the sources. The danger here is in judging the reliability of sources by how well they support the desired viewpoint.") Also WP:TEND includes "Ignoring or refusing to answer good faith questions from other editors" "Failure to cooperate with such simple requests may be interpreted as evidence of a bad faith effort to exasperate or waste the time of other editors."
Repeated issues of HOUND and TEND began after 08SEP, increased on 11SEP and unfortunately reappeared again on 30SEP. As WP quotations specify, WP:HOUND can disrupt the project with no overidingly constructive reason, and WP:TEND can be interpreted as bad faith effort.
Interestingly, of the six million plus pages in English Wikipedia, a group of four pages with diffs occur - on subjects directly related to Chinese human and religious rights abuses in Tibet - where HOUND and TEND by editor occur. And interestingly, a group of three of the four page are also specifically included in a US State Department 26APR2019 statement: "On April 25, we marked the birthday of the 11th Panchen Lama, Gedhun Choekyi Nyima, who has not appeared in public since he was reportedly abducted two decades ago by the Chinese government at age six. The United States remains concerned that Chinese authorities continue to take steps to eliminate the religious, linguistic, and cultural identity of Tibetans, including their ongoing destruction of communities of worship, such as the Larung Gar and Yachen Gar monasteries." [diff from CTA, haven't dug through US.gov site yet [142]]
The group of pages where diffs indicate patterns of HOUND and TEND include:
To address other related topics, I would like to add that while the editor has said the reference to previous blocks is "intolerable" [182] I took editor's more experienced lead to include mention of the feuding block [183], based on the editor's mention of the BLP parameter ban (see diffs) - if following the lead was a mistake, I apologise. I would also add that I hope the good faith efforts made at Sinicization of Tibet and 11th Panchen Lama and their diffs might clarify any misunderstanding in regards to a Tea House thread, where quotations from those talk pages and good faith efforts were used: "The first sentence states clearly that Sinicization of Tibet is a term used by critics of China; then, the rest of the page is largely written from the POV of China, imo in flowing CCP-apparatchik goobolee-gook phrases." and "Those statements don't address the serious issues. Goldstein's bias diff [1]; Rice, Kissinger, and Albright do not change the issues. Also in the first paragraph are non-standard references to the Chinese government, as in "Chinese leadership" and "leadership in China". Twice. Hum." After a requoting, a light-hearted but possibly poor attempt at joking (humbly offering AKGG as possible WP policy) was made. No personal attacks were intended towards editor, nor was disrespect towards policy at all intended - I apologise if I caused a misunderstanding. But, editor exhibited more HOUND instances by following into that request for help, and into another helpful discussion afterward.
I trust the copious amounts of diffs and this very lengthy response to be good enough to explain the interpretation of bad faith effort by the editor. I also trust that the good faith edits I've been providing as a recently joined editor to the project are as apparent, if not more so. Thank you most sincerely, and I look forward to continuing the editing. ___________________
16 November 2011 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-15738522,
http://worldcat.org/identities/lccn-no93014814/ Sourcewatch https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Tibet_Information_Network Fr.wiki https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibet_Information_Network Hiring report in Lhasa https://savetibet.org/tag/tibet-information-network/
https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2011/08/22/chinas-liberation-tibet-rules-game/
02OCT on talk [185] then [186] then [187]. Then on another talk [188] then [189]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/?title=Special:MovePage&action=submit
(Unable to edit, without notice, while requesting a page move per WP instructions.)
Possible pages:
Both are notable for lots of reasons, including being asked to serve or actually serving as head of Nyingma school.
Looking for information on Palri monastery (there isn't a page), one of the original Six Mother Monasteries of the Nyingma school. Not finding much in searches. Wondering about available journals.
"The ruler (zhabs drung) of Chonggye, Hor Sonam Dargye (hor bsod nams dar rgyas, d.u.), who received Sherab Ozer’s teachings of the Sphere of Liberation, became his disciple and conferred upon him the title of official chaplain (ti shri) of the Chonggye court. He repeatedly requested Sherab Ozer to establish a Nyingma monastery on his territory, the location of the ancient Tibetan emperors’s tombs. Sonam Dargye died before seeing his wishes fulfilled. His son and successor, Hor Sonam Tobgye (hor bsod nams stobs rgyas, d.u.) followed his father, and finally Sherab Ozer agreed to establish a Nyingma community in Chonggye."
'Accordingly, the monastery of Pelri Tekchen Ling (dpal ri theg chen gling) was established in 1571 and the Chonggye ruler offered the domain, the properties and the temple’s sacred objects. Dikteng Rinpoche Ngawang Lobzang (sdig stengs rin po che ngag dbang blo bzang, d.u.) was appointed abbot (mkhan po). The community followed both sūtra and tantra, with key-points of practices performed according to the instructions of Longchenpa. The community upheld the traditions of service and attainment (bsnyen sgrub) of the Mahāyoga, the earlier and later treasures, and the treasures of Sherab Ozer and his son."
"As detailed in both the history of Tibet and the autobiography of the Fifth Dalai Lama, Ngawang Lobzang Gyatso (ngag dbang blo bzang rgya mtsho, 1617-1682), born later into the ruling family of Chonggye, Prajñāpāramitā texts, the Life-Story of Padmasambhava (padma bka' thang) and Longchenpa’s works of the Nature of Mind Healing Suffering (sems nyid ngal gso) were printed on the occasion of the consecration of Pelri Monastery."
"Late in his life Sherab Ozer became sick, allegedly due to black magic performed against him by political rivals. He gave his last instructions concerning the funerary treatment of his body, and exhorted his community in this way: You, members of the Buddhist monastic community, devote yourselves mainly and without interruption to study, reflection and meditation for each of the teachings. Engage in practice; face every situation by applying the antidotes [of virtues] without being soiled by the stains of transgressing the three vows [of monastic conduct, bodhisattva and tantric adept]. Consider all sentient beings as your own parents. If you want to establish a connection with me, accomplish the practice of the Sphere of Liberation, Auto-Liberation of Intention and my volume of instructions."
"During his last moments, Sherab Ozer is described as having been continuously immerged in visionary experiences of deities, empowerments, blessings and pure realms. He interpreted that this disease was the result of former bad actions, and that he would be henceforth liberated from their correlative obscuring veils."
"Sherab Ozer intended to transfer his consciousness and leave his body on the tenth day of the sixth Mongol month of the water monkey year (1584). However, his son and successor at the abbacy of Pelri Monastery, Gyelse Karma Kunzang with his wife, children and others, prayed him to stay. As a result he lived three more days, and eventually during the early morning of the thirteenth, he passed away. According to the hagiography, he is said to have unified his mind with Padmasambha in his aspect of Pawochenpo Tope Dumbutsel (dpa' bo chen po thod pa'i dum bu rtsal) in the city of great bliss named Śāntapurī, in the pure realm of Pelri Padma Wo (dpal ri padma 'od)."
"Sherab Ozer was also known as Drodul Lingpa ('gro 'dul gling pa)..." https://treasuryoflives.org/biographies/view/Sherab-Wozer/8964
Chongye Palri Thegchog Ling, monastery, central Tibet; founded by _________ [1]
"Tsele Natsok Rangdrol (body incarnation) (b.1608), Minling Terchen Gyurme Dorje (speech incarnation) (1646-1714), and Pema Dechen Lingpa (mind incarnation) (1627/63-1713)." [2]
Refs [3]
https://www.tibetwatch.org/larung-gar
https://wordsofjigmephuntsok.org/news/news_290720/
https://www.rfa.org/english/news/tibet/yachen-demolition-10012019181505.html?searchterm:utf8:ustring=%20Tibet https://www.rfa.org/english/news/tibet/sichuan-yachengar-08282019173854.html?searchterm:utf8:ustring=%20Tibet
Tashi Choedron, Navigating the experiences of detained Tibetan Nuns of Yachen Gar in Tibet, (06 August 2019) Tashi Choedon, https://tibetpolicy.net/navigating-the-experiences-of-detained-tibetan-nuns-of-yachen-gar-in-tibet/
https://www.rfa.org/english/news/tibet/nun-02142020172455.html?searchterm:utf8:ustring=%20Tibet
https://www.rfa.org/english/news/tibet/nuns-12062019173001.html?searchterm:utf8:ustring=%20Tibet
https://tibet.net/us-state-department-calls-for-the-immediate-release-of-tibets-panchen-lama/ "The statement issued on April 26 by Heather Nauert, [US State] Department Spokesperson read: “On April 25, we marked the birthday of the 11th Panchen Lama, Gedhun Choekyi Nyima, who has not appeared in public since he was reportedly abducted two decades ago by the Chinese government at age six. The United States remains concerned that Chinese authorities continue to take steps to eliminate the religious, linguistic, and cultural identity of Tibetans, including their ongoing destruction of communities of worship, such as the Larung Gar and Yachen Gar monasteries. We call on China to release Gedhun Choekyi Nyima immediately and to uphold its international commitments to promote religious freedom for all persons.”
https://www.voanews.com/east-asia-pacific/china-places-new-controls-center-tibetan-buddhist-studies Also start of demo https://www.voanews.com/east-asia-pacific/abbot-urges-monks-against-protest-china-razes-buddhist-academy https://www.voanews.com/east-asia/chinese-workers-dismantle-tibetan-study-site-evict-people
Other centers, political prisoners https://www.rfa.org/english/news/tibet/centers-01022020164534.html?searchterm:utf8:ustring=%20Tibet
https://www.rfa.org/english/monk-death-03192020193829.html?searchterm:utf8:ustring=%20Tibet
http://www.tibettravel.org/tibet-group-tours/4-days-lhasa-tour.html Sera & Drepung monastery 'tours'
Tibet Society missing poster, 2015 https://tibetsociety.com/disappeared-tibets-panchen-lama
Only photo note (verify) Video https://www.rfa.org/english/video?v=1_3tv710jq
https://tibet.net/where-is-11th-panchen-lama-bbc-broadcasts-the-image-of-11th-panchen-lama-24-years-after-the-abduction-by-chinese-government/ "...the fact that he plays an essential role in the recognition and education of Dalai Lamas, and vice-versa apparently makes his disappearance politically crucial for the Chinese Government..."
"Today, there are two Panchen Lamas, one recognised by His Holiness the Dalai Lama and respected by all Tibetans and another six-year-old picked and installed by the Chinese government, known as Panchen “Zuma” Fake Panchen." "Given Chinese statement of Gendun Choekyi Nyima, the 11th Panchen Lama, leading a “normal life as an ordinary Child”, there are some pressing questions that the Chinese authority must address to the international community. Firstly, what makes China keep on declining the request of the international community, including UN human rights mandate holders, to see Gendun Choekyi Nyima?" "Secondly, If Gendun Choekyi Nyima is leading a normal life as China claims, why has he been not seen in a public place?"
"After nearly 25 years, the deep concern for the well-being and whereabouts of Tibet’s Panchen Lama continues and with the availability of one picture of His Holiness the Panchen Lama, ITN’s new project on the Forensic Image of Panchen Lama has sparked interest and excitement amongst many Tibetans and supporters. Moreover, BBC’s interest in the case of the missing Panchen Lama and the new forensic image has made a short film called ‘Where is Panchen Lama?’ for ‘ The One Show’, a primetime UK programme."
https://www.dalailama.com/news/archive/2008/3
https://www.tibetanreview.net/the-2008-uprising-and-the-olympics/
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/mar/24/tibet.olympicgames2008
https://www.theguardian.com/world/gallery/2008/mar/14/1
https://freedomhouse.org/report/2017/battle-china-spirit-tibetan-buddhism-religious-freedom
"The Dalai Lama released a statement on Friday [14?] calling on both sides to avoid violence and appealing to China’s leaders to “address the long simmering resentment of the Tibetan people through dialogue with the Tibetan people.” A spokesman for the Dalai Lama called China’s accusations “absolutely baseless.” "
"In the past China has not hesitated to crush major protests in Tibet or to jail disobedient monks. President Hu Jintao, who is also the general secretary of the Communist Party, served as party boss in Tibet during a violent crackdown in 1989. His support for the bloody suppression of unrest that year earned him the good will of Deng Xiaoping, then the paramount leader, and led directly to his elevation to the Politburo Standing Committee and eventually to China’s top leadership posts."
Palden Gyatso article, NYT link https://www.voanews.com/south-central-asia/tibetan-monk-tortured-3-decades-chinas-prisons-dies
Statement of His Holiness the Dalai Lama on the Sixth Anniversary of the Tibetan National Uprising Day https://www.dalailama.com/messages/tibet/10th-march-archive/1965#
CTA on Xi https://www.rfa.org/english/news/tibet/sinicize-08312020195200.html?searchterm:utf8:ustring=%20Tibet
VOA on Sinicization 03SEP2020 https://www.voanews.com/east-asia-pacific/rights-groups-slam-xis-latest-calls-sinicize-tibetan-buddhism "International rights groups and officials of the Tibetan government in exile say Chinese President Xi Jinping's latest calls to "Sinicize" Tibetan Buddhism are a threat to Tibetan identity and culture." "Xi's comments came at a recent senior Communist Party meeting on Tibet’s future governance, where the president said Beijing must build an “impregnable fortress” to maintain stability in Tibetan Autonomous Region (TAR) and Tibetan areas in Sichuan, Yunnan, Gansu and Qinghai provinces. He also called for enhancing China’s national security by educating the masses in the struggle against "splittism," or deviating from the party’s official policies." "China has long viewed Tibetan Buddhism as a source of “separatist power,” which Beijing has targeted with "reeducational patriotism" campaigns that force Tibetan monks to denounce Tibet's exiled spiritual leader, the Dalai Lama." "In the past decade or so, the Communist Party of China (CCP) officials have been posted in major TAR monasteries and communities closer to China, such as Larung Gar in Sichuan province, one of the world’s foremost centers of Tibetan Buddhist study." "Xi's vow to build a "new modern socialist Tibet that is united, prosperous, culturally advanced, harmonious and beautiful" would be achieved primarily via secondary school reforms that “plant the seeds of loving China deep in the heart of every youth." And by "actively [guiding] Tibetan Buddhism to adapt to the socialist society and promote the Sinicization of Tibetan Buddhism,” Xi said." " "No one is fooled by his claims that these policies respect Tibetans or Buddhism," [Sophie Richardson, HRWChina] said." "Broadly defined, Sinicization is a campaign to reform or mold the belief systems and doctrine of any religious faith into compliance with CPC values." "In 2015, Xi discussed a plan to Sinicize the beliefs of the five largest religious groups in China: Buddhism, Daoism, Catholicism, Protestantism and Islam." "In 2014, Chen Quanguo, then-CPC secretary of TAR, said “the government must actively promote intermarriages,” between Tibetans and Chinese in order to promote “ethnic unity.”" Matteo Mecacci, director of the U.S.-based International Campaign for Tibet, recently told Reuters that Xi's remarks are an indication of China's failure to integrate Tibet into Chinese society." " “If Tibetans really benefited as much from Chinese leadership as Xi and other officials claim, then China wouldn’t have to fear separatism and wouldn’t need to subject Tibetans to political reeducation,” he said in an email, according to Reuters."
https://apnews.com/article/0e489e69ba7c7985f300720196f620e3
Forced labor camps (06 October 2020), https://www.contactmagazine.net/articles/thousands-of-tibetans-coerced-into-forced-labour/
https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/08/31/tibet-china-repression-xinjiang-sinicization/
https://www.voanews.com/south-central-asia/tibetan-re-education-camp-journal-tells-chinas-tactics-now-used-uighurs Image https://im-media.voltron.voanews.com/Drupal/01live-166/styles/608x401/s3/2019-06/B863B870-F666-4AEE-94A4-36BB91FE60F3.jpg?itok=pONyhxzm "At the Sog County “reform through re-education center” in Nagchu Prefecture of the Tibetan Autonomous Region, “Those who the officials didn’t like would be captured and tortured with electronic devices. When they become unconscious, [the torturers] would splash water on their faces until their victims regained their consciousness. After doing that for a long time, they would use a black rubber tube as well as electronic baton to torture people. The bruised bodies of the prisoners turned blue and black, and people become half-dead. For some [strange] reason, their bones were not broken." "Cultural anthropologist, historian and University of Colorado professor, Carole McGranahan, the author of “Arrested History: Tibet, the CIA and Memories of a Forgotten War,” reviewed the journal and found it an “authentic recounting of what it is like to be a prisoner in a re-education camp in Tibet.”" " "The details given correspond to our understanding of what such re-education centers look like, and these re-education camps, detention camps, internment camps are found not only in Tibet but right now, [in] 2019, there are also many in which Uighurs — Uighur Muslims — are prisoners in Xinjiang as well. So we are seeing this in both Tibet and Xinjiang,” she told VOA." " “Tibet is the precursor to what is happening,” McGranahan said. “The Chinese architect of the Uighur ‘re-education’ or concentration camps is Chen Quanguo. Where was he before Xinjiang? In Tibet from 2011-2016, in charge of surveilling, policing and oppressing Tibetans." "
Here's good RS on Chinese monitoring, censoring, and crackdowns on online speech under Xi Jinping: the social media crackdown in 2013 [5], and on the 39 Chinese companies agreeing to aid in censoring efforts in 2011 [6], and (live link?) [7], and on the 2 million "public opinion analysts" hired to help in 2013 [8], and on Xi's intensified crackdowns in 2016 against "dissenting versions" of China's history [9].
Here's more good RS on China's censoring of BBC affiliates and their blocking of access to English Wikipedia as well as Chinese Wikipedia before Xi in 2008, [10] which includes mention of blocking access to sites that report on Tibet, But other domains are still blocked, The BBC says, including sites for the Hong Kong newspaper Apple Daily, human rights groups like Amnesty International, and organizations promoting Tibetan independence..
Another on China's blocking Wikipedia, from 2006, [11] and a quotation, The Communist Party polices these emerging Internet communities with censors and undercover agents, and manages a Web site that it said received nearly a quarter-million anonymous tips about "harmful information" online last year. But the methods the party uses to control speech and behavior in the real world have proved less effective in cyberspace, where people get away with more, and where the government is often a step behind. When authorities catch up, citizens often have already weakened the party's grip on public life and succeeded in expanding civil society. They have organized charity drives for rural schoolchildren and mobilized students for anti-Japanese protest marches. And they learned to work together to write an encyclopedia. The point? China has a history of blocking access to English Wikipedia, and is censoring reports on history which involves China.
China also has a history of blocking access to BBC China. Here's a good RS on the 2008 Tibetan uprising in Lhasa and clashes with Chinese security forces, which is offered as an illustration of the unreliability of Chinese state media, as versus the reliability of BBC UK in reporting on the events, including the mention of difficulties in verifying reports due to Chinese controls: [12] with quotations, 'Eighty killed' in Tibetan unrest... Chinese troops were out in force in Lhasa on Sunday...At least 80 people have been killed in unrest following protests by Tibetans against Chinese rule, the Tibetan government in exile says. Indian-based officials said the figure was confirmed by several sources, even though China put the death toll at 10. The Dalai Lama called for an international inquiry into China's crackdown, accusing it of a "rule of terror" and "cultural genocide". Chinese troops were out in force in Lhasa, Tibet's main city, on Sunday. Hong Kong Cable TV reported that about 200 military vehicles, each carrying 40 to 60 armed soldiers, had driven into the city. Loudspeakers broadcast messages, such as: "Discern between enemies and friends, maintain order." China tightly restricts Western journalists' access to Tibet and it is sometimes extremely difficult to verify what is going on. The Chinese official news agency Xinhua says 10 people died on Friday, including business people it said were "burnt to death". But the Tibetan government in exile later said at least 80 corpses had been counted, including those of 26 people killed on Saturday next to the Dratchi prison in Lhasa. Other bodies were spotted near the Ramoche Buddhist temple, and near a Muslim mosque and a cathedral in Lhasa, said Tenzin Taklha, a senior aide to the Dalai Lama. "These reports come from relatives, from our people inside and from contacts of our department of security. They have all been confirmed multiple times," he said. In an interview with the BBC, the Dalai Lama, the Tibetan spiritual leader, said he feared there would be more deaths unless Beijing changed its policies towards Tibet, which it has ruled since invading in 1950. "It has become really very, very tense. Now today and yesterday, the Tibetan side is determined. The Chinese side also equally determined. So that means, the result: killing, more suffering," he said. "Ultimately, the Chinese government is clinging of policy, not looking at the reality. They simply feel they have gun - so they can control. Obviously they can control. But they cannot control human mind," he warned.
Based on this report and the other RS, the Chinese state controlled efforts to censor media also extends outside the internet and into the communities of Tibet, into which foreigners are denied access.
In the last few days, four different pages related to Tibet in the English Wikipedia project have been reverted by an editor, responsible for deleting RS and associated text. The RS included reports from BBC, The Statesman (India), International Campaign for Tibet, Free Tibet, governmental entities Central Tibetan Administration and UNESCO, International Tibet Post, The Tibet Post, and from UNPO. On a page entitled the 11th Panchen Lama controversy, the remaining RS detailing the 1995 abduction and forced disappearance by China of the recognized Panchen Lama were from a Chinese source (without translation) and from a criticised academic source, among another also without verifiability, found likewise on other pages. Image files were also deleted. One of the images was reinserted.
In 2020, RS indicate the abduction and forced disappearance of the Panchen Lama continue to be condemned by the international community - recently, by 159 international organizations acting together with the UN - but the deleted RS and text also removed this information.
The given reason? The editor opined all the RS were from "advocacy groups", without providing RS to support the opinion. No additional reason was given for deleting the image files.
In 2008 China blocked sites that report on Tibet, and then intensified efforts in 2016 to crackdown on "dissenting" versions of history. Sources that support the Chinese government's censored version of events also effectively advocate for censored versions of history.
In this editor's opinion (allowed on talk), the reverts and deletions on the pages follow a exceedingly similar patterns used by China's state controlled media outlets, which can be defined as advocacy groups, and by its corps of "public opinion analysts" to block access to information or to the reporting of historical events which China deems "dissenting".
WP:Library https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:The_Wikipedia_Library/OA
Study Buddhism [13]
Treasury of Lives, bios [14] search [15]
AP news https://apnews.com/article/0e489e69ba7c7985f300720196f620e3
40 reverts/reedits/deletions of refs on 4 pages + Nyingchi = 45 and 5. At least.
C+BoC C edits [16] Pasdecomplot ( talk) 08:09, 20 November 2020 (UTC)
tt [19] and BLP tag #Tangential Notice [20] involved discussion [21]. WP:INVOLVED at tt, BLP, WP:WW attempt at ElC. self [22]
Cu response; eee PA [23] "IMO an extremely bad answer. Someone please protect the other editor from this ongoing harrassment by PDC, as I cannot. —valereee (talk) 13:42, 2 October 2020 (UTC)". Zeal and reply (not accessible in searches) unanswered [24]. Involved but [25]
Bk involved 14Nov [26] but closes 17Nov [27]
Advice after Cu [28]
Pasdecomplot ( talk) 08:17, 20 November 2020 (UTC)
C=T
Followed into RfN, and then DR; states doesn't know topic, does not read refs; Deleted ref at DR [29] with tagging; Sanction joex encore ?
DRAFT TEXT The ANI is completely without merit as it's a coatrack of diffs crafted together with an alleged "concern" about good faith.
Most recently, the involved admin, with a history of coordinating with an author of a blatant PA, has stepped actively and aggressively into two requests for moves [30] [31] in a topic area for which they admit (see above) to not having knowledge. The admin has previously been warned by El_C to either edit or admin pages, not both. Then while again blending roles, the admin ignored a blatant PA, then mischaracterized edits as "edit waring" then doubled down to further mischaracterize the events as "disruptive editing", then tripled down to mischaracterize the complaint of the PA itself as a personal attack, then quadrupled down to bring it to ANI.
Which makes the notice all the more curious since good faith is always assumed. But, PA's are not defined in policy as examples of "good faith", nor are repeated unfounded accusations of personal attacks and accusations of disruptive editing, nor are disturbing messages left by the involved admin on talk (02OCT on talk [32] then [33] then [34]. Then on another talk [35] then [36]).
To detail why the ANI is especially inappropriate at this time, a blantant PA was found on a request for move (that also totally mischaracterized posting of diffs showing work by the editor responsible for moving the page without CON). The PA was deleted, per policy [37] The author of the PA posts the same PA again, and deletes the text citing reasons the PA was deleted [38]. The reposting of blatant PA was again deleted per policy [39]. Author of PA posts same PA for the third time [40]. The very involved admin then mischaracterizes the policy-approved deletion of PA as "edit waring" [41]. The failure to cite the blatant PA by the involved admin is made [42], and the complaint of the PA, which was deleted by the author of the PA, was posted here [43] and on the talk where it was first posted [44]. The admin further mischaracterizes quotes of PA as a personal attack from me [45] and both involved admin and author of blatant PA accuse me of disruptive editing and personal attacks on my user talk [46].
An ANI citing "concerns" for good faith is not in any way appropriate, and especially not appropriate for these repeated unaddressed blatant PA's by another editor, nor for escalating mischaracterizations by both the involved admin and the author of the repeated blatant PA's.
You did not get a response to this question. If you have a problem like that again, report it at WP:VPT.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 20:57, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
"Hooping"
[47]
The block/ban submitted by an involved administrator [48] is not necessary since the ANI text is comprised of accusations of incivility which are not supported by diffs, and/or are inaccurate versions of events.
Blocks are for serious disruptions to the project, and not to be used to punish or retaliate, as in WP:NOPUNISH. The request for a block appears to be a punishment for disagreeing with POV on 12Nov [49]. The earlier archived ANI appears to stem from the involved admin's accusation of edit warring and accusation of PA, both of which are proven to be false by the diffs I provided at ANI [50] before it was archived.
The archiving signifies the accusations were not convincing.
Somehow, it was reopened with the "advice" of the future closer [51], which heightens concerns of WP:ADMINCONDUCT, of WP:INVOLVED, and of WP:TOOLMISUSE, which are ongoing [52] (seen towards the bottom). Simultaneously, a request for information on an IBAN was not answered [53].
As a recent contributor beginning from June, I had to learn about policy while editing. After being wrongly blocked by the same involved admin, I went to another area of the project to avoid constant harassment [54] and interaction.
On 10Sep, I began interacting with an involved editor [55] and my attempts at navigating through their chronic behaviors [56] were criticised. I listened, learned and responded to advice to "tone it down" by 29Sep [57], and then explained policies on good faith while attempting to clear myself and have the other editor's behaviors addressed by 03oct [58], but was unsuccessful [59]. I received another PA there from the involved admin [60], and more PA/harassment diffs are at the ANI [61].
Regardless, I changed per advice, as seen in these diffs: [62] and [63] and [64] and [65].
This accurate version of events and the changes I made are omitted from the block request, which instead wrongly portrays another story.
Also missing are the series of events at two requests for moves, which I either initiated or participated in, directly linked to the 07Nov ANI and the 14Nov request for block. I detailed these events at ANI [66] but its significance was maybe not understood. The completely mischaracterized presentation by the involved admin was not closely examined, possibly since they are an administrator [67].
Nor was the history of coordinations between the involved admin and involved editor examined: [68] and [69] and [70] and [71], and the infamous double accusation [72] and [73].
These are the reasons the block/ban is not necessary: it was made based on mischaracterizations of events, on omitted previous changes to behaviors, and on an inaccurate rendering of the history of harassment and PA's by the involved admin, after which I attempted to avoid all interaction. I've already stopped the behaviors, and have also recently learned there are other forums at which to bring issues as detailed here, instead of edit summaries. Thank you.
__________________
inaccurate portrayals of "ongoing" behaviors deftly manages to mischaracterize the role of the involved administrator(s) that submitted the request, and their coordinations with an editor that is directly connected to all of the events.
_____________ Additionally,
behaviors were previously addressed by 03 oct, and were stopped.
Also, the block does not conform to block policy in that it continues to show apparent issues of WP:ADMINCONDUCT and apparent issues of WP:INVOLVED, leading to more concerns of WP:TOOLMISUSE.
Blocks are for serious disruptions to the project, and not to be used to punish an editor or to retaliate, as in WP:NOPUNISH. The reopening of the closed ANI and its request for the block was presented by an involved admin [74] using misleading and inaccurate information, and appears to be a punishment for disagreeing with POV on 12Nov [75]. Its portrayal of "ongoing" behavior issues is incorrect. While NOTTHEM is very clear about what to say and not say at a unblock request, it's nearly impossible to explain the inaccuracies without an accurate portrayal of events.
After the archiving of the ANI, the block was requested at its reopening on 14Nov, then granted on 17Nov. Being that the characterization is incorrect, it's also difficult to simply provide a mea culpa, while the diffs provided here evidence the accurate portrayal including the previous behaviors.
Additionally, issues of INVOLVED may have spread to what was then the future closer of the ANI [76] by the involved admin [77], as evidenced in the text at the reopened ANI on 14Nov. Although the "advice" appears to technically meet policy, the appearance of a conflict of interest is of increasing concern, and presented for review below.
To better explain, before the ANI, the issues with assuming good faith were already addressed by 29 Sep [78] and the advice of "toning it down" was closely followed. A throrough presentation of what constitutes good faith vs bad faith at the project was presented by 03 Oct [79], afterwhich I incorporated the concerns into edit summaries and into civility practices in dealing with an editor [80] and in general throughout the project. The changes are evidenced by the diffs of numerous talk requests here [81] and [82] and [83] and [84], and at numerous other pages where I've edited, without mass reverts using an admin rollback tool, and without conflict or issues.[108]
Which brings us to the inaccurate portrayal of events and behaviors within the ANI. If I hadn't changed and responded in good faith to the raised issue of not accusing others of "bad faith" in edit summaries, then this request to UNBLOCK would be much different. But, when the same editor repeated the mass rollback reverts, and didn't respond to multiple talk page discussions (in diffs above), it seemed necessary to remind them of using good faith, a reminder which was made in good faith.
A troubling result of the ANI's inaccurate portrayal is the absence of text and diffs revealing the apparent coordination between the involved admin and the editor (another mass rollback revert [85], labelling the reverted page as a BLP [86] and coordination again [87] and a PA here [88]), all of which occurred before 03oct.
While earlier verifying sources at RSN in good faith, and discussing in good faith NOTABLE vs COATRACK at BLPN, both editor and involved admin also entered discussions I'd begun or was involved in, including a later request for move on 24Oct. Meanwhile, the involved admin began a counter-move request on 31Oct for a correction move I made that day.
I've been editing with good faith, and have learned, and am still learning, about various policies while contributing since June. I value the work on the project. I'm very careful about personal attacks, and delete PA's and harassment's from the user page, including those by the involved admin listed in the ANI. Then, in 05Nov, the editor made a personal attack, three times via reverts (as detailed here
[89] The PA was deleted, per policy[610]. The author of the PA posts the same PA again, and deletes the text citing reasons the PA was deleted[611]. The reposting of blatant PA was again deleted per policy[612]. The author of the PA posts same PA for the third time[613]
) in a request for move. For following policy in deleting PA's, I was accused by the involved admin of edit warring, then of disruptive editing by the editor, and accused of a PA by the involved admin for quoting the PA, in an apparent double accusation, without diffs, by the editor
[90]and by the involved admin
[91].
Unfortunately, the apparent coordination by the involved admin and the editor is the common denominator throughout the ANI, and throughout the accurate portrayal of events here [120] and at the original ANI [121].
These events at the requests for moves directly predated the ANI, but were not described by the involved admin. Blocks from June were also not mentioned, which caused an editor at ANI to question why the information was missing.
As such, the block/ban is not necessary since it was administered based on an incomplete and inaccurate portrayal of events, from June through to 03Oct, and then through to 14Nov. It is also inaccurate in not mentioning the events occuring between 07Nov and 14Nov, as the ANI was posted, closed, and then reopened.
Created also is an inaccurate portrayal of the changes in behaviors and the ongoing efforts to abide by civility norms when faced by chronic behavior issues of another editor, behaviors leading to issues that I do not initiate, but only deal with after they begin.
A few questions as to the validity of the block had emerged and were addressed, then just reemerged as a potentially serious issue worthy of a review. The text is added: Did you read WP:NOTTHEM? Because this comment does violate it and further violates your restriction against speculating about the motives of others, specifically the above message indicates that editor is inappropriately crawling through this talk page. Barkeep49 (talk) 16:30, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
So sorry. I don't understand where the speculation about motive is in the statement, since it's not about motives. It addresses results: "inappropriately" is not a speculation about the editor's motives, but a description of the digging through discussion threads to find the diffs used in the draft, which would be appropriate at ANI but not on a draft for ANI on a user's talk page. I am not addressing motives, since I have no idea what that editor's motives are; "crawling" also doesn't seem to be a speculation about motives. Please help me to understand how the phrase is a violation. After reading that editor's exchange with Flickotown, knowing about warring with Horse Eye's Back and Amigao, and reading that editor's statement just above, as in "launching a slew of grievances against others" which *definitely* speculates about motives, I thought the statement no different or possibly gentler than the others used. But, if you could help me to understand Barkeep49, I'd appreciate it a lot. I'll also read NOTTHEM again. Thanks. Pasdecomplot (talk) 17:18, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
I'm willing to concede the language might have just been loaded with negative connotations rather than outright speculating on motives. It certainly doesn't assume good faith of others. Barkeep49 (talk) 17:36, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
Just to check that we read the same edit: that editor pinged you to block me from my user talk, as I've been drafting a request for ANI. Might you possibly explain Barkeep49 in what way did that editor assume good faith, or where good faith from that editor is in evidence? I really need to understand. Thanks. Pasdecomplot (talk) 17:45, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
Yes we read the same edit. While you're blocked you should not be preparing to take others to ANI. Any attempts to take them to ANI by you will have to wait until your block is over. What's more important at the moment is how you are, or aren't, assuming that others are also assuming good faith. Barkeep49 (talk) 18:16, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
Thanks for responding. I didn't mention that the concession is appreciated. But, what the recent request for clarification is centered on is the statement: "It certainly doesn't assume good faith of others." To describe an event as it occurred doesn't involve assumptions of good faith or bad faith. Events occurred and are described. What's confusing is that it seems I am to understand from your responses that even describing a series of events, as have undeniably occurred, will be mischaracterized as speculating on motives, and as not assuming good faith? I ask since you've offered to post the request to overturn the block, which in itself now seems to be misunderstood as an ANI report: "While you're blocked you should not be preparing to take others to ANI. Any attempts to take them to ANI by you will have to wait until your block is over." All of which brings me again to the question, and deepens the concerns, noted at the beginning of this discussion thread and sent to ProcrastinatingReader, of whether or not there's an issue with pre-involvement. From a technical understanding, not, but from a practical understanding based on the responses in question, the concerns have not been alleviated but heightened.
, from [122], as seen towards the bottom of the discussion.
These heightened ADMINCONDUCT, INVOLVED, and TOOLMISUSE concerns are not accusations of bad faith whatsoever, but only concerns based on the stated intentions behind policies governing blocks. It certainly appears as if there might be a conflict of interest and involvement. If the review agrees with this concern, then the block/ban could be found as invalid.
Possibly worth mentioning in this context, before the ANI was unarchived, I asked about an IBAN on the involved admin but didn't receive a response [123], and thus didn't even know the request for reopening was successful, after checking a few times.
Thank you for your attention. I promise to continue to edit in good faith, to continue to not accuse others of "bad faith", and to begin using appropriate forums when dealing with issues that cannot be solved through good faith talk page discussions.
Thank you for your attention. The block and ban are not necessary, and the block does not conform to block policy in that it continues to show apparent issues of WP:ADMINCONDUCT and apparent issues of WP:INVOLVED, leading to more concerns of WP:TOOLMISUSE.
Blocks are for serious disruptions to the project, and not to be used to punish an editor or to retaliate, as in WP:NOPUNISH. The request for the block was presented by an involved admin [92] using misleading and inaccurate information, and appears to be a punishment for disagreeing with POV on 12Nov [93]. An accurate portrayal of the events makes it difficult to agree with the inaccurate premises of the block request granted on 14Nov, and difficult to simply provide here a mea culpa, while the diffs provided here evidence the accurate portrayal.
Additionally, issues of INVOLVED spread to the future closer of the ANI [94] by the involved admin [95], as evidenced in the text at the reopened ANI. Although the "advice" appears to technically meet policy, the appearance of a conflict of interest is of increasing concern.
To better explain, before the ANI, the issues with assuming good faith were already addressed by 29 Sep [96] and the advice of "toning it down" was closely followed. A throrough presentation of what constitutes good faith vs bad faith at the project was presented by 03 Oct [97], afterwhich I incorporated the concerns into edit summaries and into civility practices in dealing with other editors [98]. The changes are evidenced by the diffs of numerous talk requests here [99] and [100] and [101] and [102], and at numerous other pages where I've edited without the editor's mass reverts using their admin tool.
Which brings us to the inaccurate portrayal of events and behaviors within the ANI. If I hadn't changed and responded in good faith to the raised issue of not accusing others of "bad faith" in edit summaries, then this request to UNBLOCK would be much different. When the same editor repeated the mass reverts, and didn't respond to multiple talk discussions (in diffs above), I had to remind them of using good faith, a reminder which was made in good faith.
A troubling result of the ANI's inaccurate portrayal is the absence of text and diffs revealing the apparent coordination between the involved admin and the editor (ongoing mass reverts using an admin tool [103], labelling reverted page as a BLP [104] and coordination again [105] and a PA here [106]). While verifying sources at RSN, and at BLPN, both have also entered discussions I've begun or was involved in, including a request for move, while the involved admin began a counter-move request for a move.
I've been editing with good faith, and have learned about various policies since June. I'm very careful about personal attacks, and delete PA's from the user page. When the editor made a personal attack (three times via reverts as detailed here
[107] The PA was deleted, per policy[610]. The author of the PA posts the same PA again, and deletes the text citing reasons the PA was deleted[611]. The reposting of blatant PA was again deleted per policy[612]. The author of the PA posts same PA for the third time[613]
) in a request for move. For following policy in deleting PA's, I was accused by the involved admin of edit warring, then of disruptive editing by the editor, and accused of a PA by the involved admin for quoting the PA, in an apparent double accusation, without diffs, by the editor
[108]and by the involved admin
[109]. The apparent coordination by the involved admin and the editor is the common denominator throughout the ANI, and throughout the accurate portrayal of events here
[110] and at the original ANI
[111].
As such, the block/ban is not necessary since it was placed based on an inaccurate portrayal of events. And it was placed for an inaccurate portrayal of the efforts to abide by civility norms when faced by chronic behavior issues of another editor. In addition, the validity of the block had emerged, then just reemerged as a potentially serious issue: Did you read WP:NOTTHEM? Because this comment does violate it and further violates your restriction against speculating about the motives of others, specifically the above message indicates that editor is inappropriately crawling through this talk page. Barkeep49 (talk) 16:30, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
So sorry. I don't understand where the speculation about motive is in the statement, since it's not about motives. It addresses results: "inappropriately" is not a speculation about the editor's motives, but a description of the digging through discussion threads to find the diffs used in the draft, which would be appropriate at ANI but not on a draft for ANI on a user's talk page. I am not addressing motives, since I have no idea what that editor's motives are; "crawling" also doesn't seem to be a speculation about motives. Please help me to understand how the phrase is a violation. After reading that editor's exchange with Flickotown, knowing about warring with Horse Eye's Back and Amigao, and reading that editor's statement just above, as in "launching a slew of grievances against others" which *definitely* speculates about motives, I thought the statement no different or possibly gentler than the others used. But, if you could help me to understand Barkeep49, I'd appreciate it a lot. I'll also read NOTTHEM again. Thanks. Pasdecomplot (talk) 17:18, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
I'm willing to concede the language might have just been loaded with negative connotations rather than outright speculating on motives. It certainly doesn't assume good faith of others. Barkeep49 (talk) 17:36, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
Just to check that we read the same edit: that editor pinged you to block me from my user talk, as I've been drafting a request for ANI. Might you possibly explain Barkeep49 in what way did that editor assume good faith, or where good faith from that editor is in evidence? I really need to understand. Thanks. Pasdecomplot (talk) 17:45, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
Yes we read the same edit. While you're blocked you should not be preparing to take others to ANI. Any attempts to take them to ANI by you will have to wait until your block is over. What's more important at the moment is how you are, or aren't, assuming that others are also assuming good faith. Barkeep49 (talk) 18:16, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
Thanks for responding. I didn't mention that the concession is appreciated. But, what the recent request for clarification is centered on is the statement: "It certainly doesn't assume good faith of others." To describe an event as it occurred doesn't involve assumptions of good faith or bad faith. Events occurred and are described. What's confusing is that it seems I am to understand from your responses that even describing a series of events, as have undeniably occurred, will be mischaracterized as speculating on motives, and as not assuming good faith? I ask since you've offered to post the request to overturn the block, which in itself now seems to be misunderstood as an ANI report: "While you're blocked you should not be preparing to take others to ANI. Any attempts to take them to ANI by you will have to wait until your block is over." All of which brings me again to the question, and deepens the concerns, noted at the beginning of this discussion thread and sent to ProcrastinatingReader, of whether or not there's an issue with pre-involvement. From a technical understanding, not, but from a practical understanding based on the responses in question, the concerns have not been alleviated but heightened.
, from
[112], as seen towards the bottom of the discussion.
This request to overturn the Ban and Block from 17NOV is based on the serious problems with the ANI presented by Valereee, most notably the sweeping accusation of "ongoing" behavior problems. The position is not an accurate portrayal of the issue, and is an incomplete rendering of events as well as an inaccurate assessment of my current editing on Wikipedia.
The accusations and generalizations together with diffs purporting to be evidence of the accusations happen to effectively avoid the actual source of chronic behavior problems: CaradhrasAiguo, the editor connected directly or indirectly to Valereee's diffs.
There's also a valid concern of a lack of pinging on the reopened ANI after I pinged EdJohnston on El_C's talk, which wasn't answered [113], which aided in my misunderstanding that it wasn't reopened, since I had also asked about an interaction ban. Thus, I didn't participate in the discussion after checking if it was progressing and not receiving any pings. And, the ANI process needs to be approached with respect and with care.
Although the involved administrator Valereee has gained the trust of their colleagues, as they say [114], and thus, possibly, their version of events becomes credible by default, their ANI misrepresents events and manages to obscure behaviors by CaradhrasAiguo, and by Valereee themself. The ANI also echos an earlier attempt by Valereee to misrepresent a BLP topic ban in order to extend a block on editing.
At ANI, Valereee's diffs obscure this accurate portrayal and current picture, and are misleading.
What all of this signifies is that I have listened, learned, and changed, and that the ANI was a serious misrepresentation of events by an involved administrator, Valereee, which omitted their role in creating (and even churning) accusations and in coordinating with another editor, CaradhrasAiguo. And, it signifies that the judgement by the participants was unfortunately based on these same misrepresentations and omissions. As such, and given the accurate portrayal provided here and provided earlier at ANI, I request that the Block be lifted since it was enacted based on incomplete and misrepresented information. I also request the Ban likewise be lifted, for the same reasons, and also since it is too broad of a ban and not defined enough so as to prevent misuse, by Valereee or others as happened in September.
Thank you for your consideration.
Pasdecomplot ( talk) 23:28, 20 November 2020 (UTC)
Chuckie WP:ONUS The diffs indicate issues of WP:HOUND ("Hounding on Wikipedia (or "wikihounding") is the singling out of one or more editors, joining discussions on multiple pages or topics they may edit or multiple debates where they contribute, to repeatedly confront or inhibit their work. This is with an apparent aim of creating irritation, annoyance, or distress to the other editor. Hounding usually involves following the target from place to place on Wikipedia ." " The important component of hounding is disruption to another user's own enjoyment of editing, or disruption to the project generally, for no overridingly constructive reason.") and issues of WP:TEND ("Thus a single edit is unlikely to be a problem, but a pattern of edits displaying a bias is more likely to be an issue, and repeated biased edits to a single article or group of articles will be very unwelcome indeed." "Problems arise when editors see their own bias as neutral, and especially when they assume that any resistance to their edits is founded in bias towards an opposing point of view. The perception that “he who is not for me is against me” is contrary to Wikipedia’s assume good faith guideline" "There is nothing wrong with questioning the reliability of sources, to a point. But there is a limit to how far one may reasonably go in an effort to discredit the validity of what most other contributors consider to be reliable sources, especially when multiple sources are being questioned in this manner. This may take the form of arguing about the number of or validity of the information cited by the sources. The danger here is in judging the reliability of sources by how well they support the desired viewpoint.") Also WP:TEND includes "Ignoring or refusing to answer good faith questions from other editors" "Failure to cooperate with such simple requests may be interpreted as evidence of a bad faith effort to exasperate or waste the time of other editors."
Repeated issues of HOUND and TEND began after 08SEP, increased on 11SEP and unfortunately reappeared again on 30SEP. As WP quotations specify, WP:HOUND can disrupt the project with no overidingly constructive reason, and WP:TEND can be interpreted as bad faith effort.
Interestingly, of the six million plus pages in English Wikipedia, a group of four pages with diffs occur - on subjects directly related to Chinese human and religious rights abuses in Tibet - where HOUND and TEND by editor occur. And interestingly, a group of three of the four page are also specifically included in a US State Department 26APR2019 statement: "On April 25, we marked the birthday of the 11th Panchen Lama, Gedhun Choekyi Nyima, who has not appeared in public since he was reportedly abducted two decades ago by the Chinese government at age six. The United States remains concerned that Chinese authorities continue to take steps to eliminate the religious, linguistic, and cultural identity of Tibetans, including their ongoing destruction of communities of worship, such as the Larung Gar and Yachen Gar monasteries." [diff from CTA, haven't dug through US.gov site yet [142]]
The group of pages where diffs indicate patterns of HOUND and TEND include:
To address other related topics, I would like to add that while the editor has said the reference to previous blocks is "intolerable" [182] I took editor's more experienced lead to include mention of the feuding block [183], based on the editor's mention of the BLP parameter ban (see diffs) - if following the lead was a mistake, I apologise. I would also add that I hope the good faith efforts made at Sinicization of Tibet and 11th Panchen Lama and their diffs might clarify any misunderstanding in regards to a Tea House thread, where quotations from those talk pages and good faith efforts were used: "The first sentence states clearly that Sinicization of Tibet is a term used by critics of China; then, the rest of the page is largely written from the POV of China, imo in flowing CCP-apparatchik goobolee-gook phrases." and "Those statements don't address the serious issues. Goldstein's bias diff [1]; Rice, Kissinger, and Albright do not change the issues. Also in the first paragraph are non-standard references to the Chinese government, as in "Chinese leadership" and "leadership in China". Twice. Hum." After a requoting, a light-hearted but possibly poor attempt at joking (humbly offering AKGG as possible WP policy) was made. No personal attacks were intended towards editor, nor was disrespect towards policy at all intended - I apologise if I caused a misunderstanding. But, editor exhibited more HOUND instances by following into that request for help, and into another helpful discussion afterward.
I trust the copious amounts of diffs and this very lengthy response to be good enough to explain the interpretation of bad faith effort by the editor. I also trust that the good faith edits I've been providing as a recently joined editor to the project are as apparent, if not more so. Thank you most sincerely, and I look forward to continuing the editing. ___________________
16 November 2011 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-15738522,
http://worldcat.org/identities/lccn-no93014814/ Sourcewatch https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Tibet_Information_Network Fr.wiki https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibet_Information_Network Hiring report in Lhasa https://savetibet.org/tag/tibet-information-network/
https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2011/08/22/chinas-liberation-tibet-rules-game/
02OCT on talk [185] then [186] then [187]. Then on another talk [188] then [189]