Talk from February 13, 2004 to June 6, 2004:
Thanks for the revisions on Ferdinand Marcos, Jr., chief. Really appreciate it. - Soup
I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Angela . 00:18, Feb 13, 2004 (UTC)
Thank you for editing page Ara Gaya. It looks a lot better. - Caffelice.
Re Robert Conquest: On what grounds do you dispute the accuracy or neutrality of the following statements?
Adam 04:28, 17 Feb 2004 (UTC)
I don't dispute claim 1, but I felt that, if claim 2 was to be removed, it looked awkward left over in the introduction.
Claim 2 does not take into account the fact that many people believe Conquest's work seriously exaggerated and misrepresented some events in Soviet history. Given that this matter has not yet been settled to the satisfaction of many people, I feel it is best omitted for the sake of neutrality.
Claim 3 is not at all factual. Even many people who accept a great deal of Conquest's work do not accept his ideas about the nature or purpose of the purges.
Think about it like this: if enough people come on to Wikipedia and write or edit articles which treat claims 2 & 3 as something less than absolute historical fact (like the original article that you deemed "shameful"), then perhaps it should be written in such a way as to accomodate those people. It is not like we are talking about the spherical shape of the earth here; it is a point of real controversy.
Notice that I did not attempt to significantly rewrite the article, because I did not want to offend you. I would think that you could accept the minor NPOV revisions that I made, though. Everyking 18:53, 17 Feb 2004 (UTC)
First, thanks for dealing with the Lukashenko article -- Cantus has been really getting under my skin. Second, I'd invite you to weigh in at the new discussion of related matters at Wikipedia_talk:Naming_conventions_(places)#Transliteration_of_Russian_place_names. And (coincidentally? ironically?) I just asked Adam Carr to do the same (see his talk page for why).
Also, I'm going to bed now, but if you haven't already do so, please take a look through Cantus's contributions. Someone needs to watch this character.
Thanks, BCorr ¤ Брайен 05:25, Feb 28, 2004 (UTC)
Yet another thanks for properly Englifying RC and other articles. As to your comment: (might as well add another... or should we substitute Jewish Autonomous Oblast?) -- I'd say it doesn't matter, they are "rootless" remember? :)). Seriously, either way is fine IMHO. -- Humus sapiens | Talk 00:30, 20 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Check out the infobox, 2004 Haiti Rebellion. Need some help with the section of opposing parties. Some reference would be nice. -- Maio 02:05, Mar 3, 2004 (UTC)
I do think a break would help. It'll still be there in a day or two ;-) -- Thanks, BCorr ¤ Брайен 22:30, Mar 4, 2004 (UTC)
Dates: OK well I don't really mind, I agree they ought to be consistent. Adam 05:00, 5 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Everyking, excellent work on Godric of Finchale...one of my little babies. :-) I didn't know he wasn't formally canonized -- good catch on your part! Are you familiar with the book on Godric by Frederick Buechner? It's what led me to write the initial article. Anyway, excellent job: keep it up, and happy editing, Jwrosenzweig 16:43, 8 Mar 2004 (UTC)
He has. He's been vandalizing that talk page, the article, my user page, Hcheney's user page, and Daniel Wright for many weeks and we can't get rid of him since he has a shifting IP address. This guy's a real nutcase. 172 19:55, 9 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Hi Everyking, why did you move "List of Indian female actors" to " List of Indian movie actresses" ? Jay 06:43, 11 Mar 2004 (UTC)
hehe no, I just don't have any points to argue for the name change. Since you've made the change and you have an opinion, you can discuss better, which is why I said I'll support you. Jay 07:21, 13 Mar 2004 (UTC)
From Votes for Deletion - you posted regarding Kosova: "Delete, propaganda". In what respect do you consider it propaganda? -- ChrisO 20:35, 12 Mar 2004 (UTC)
I'm going to bed, and wish you a good night.
(Maybe it would be a good idea to ask some Finn?)
--
Ruhrjung 01:11, 13 Mar 2004 (UTC)
See:
User_talk:Kosebamse#In_need_of_a_second_opinion.
Kosebamse is not a Finn, as far as I know, but living in Sweden where Finnish matters are comparably better known than in most other parts of the world.
--
Ruhrjung 01:21, 14 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Thanks for correcting several of my over-hasty edits.
Also, do you know which happened first? US troops arrive on the island (20,000 of them) -- or Aristide re-assumes power? I don't know whether to say that a UN resolution threatening force caused the junta to back down, or to say that 20,000 US troops + 1,000 other foreign troops invading the country caused the junta to back down. You seem to know more Haitian history than I do, and I'm getting tired of googling for links; it's better just to ask someone who knows. -- Uncle Ed 20:42, 17 Mar 2004 (UTC)
I put some constructive proposal in the talk page. Plaese read and then we can make edits. Cautious 10:13, 18 Mar 2004 (UTC)
On VfD, you wrote "I guess if you think it's silly, that's grounds for deletion, huh?" I know that VfD makes for very thin skins but please try to give others the benefit of the doubt that they are making suggestions with good intent. It's healthy to disagree, but when we can stick to facts and logical arguments and avoid what might be interpreted as emotional attacks, I believe the community will get to better answers. Please help to keep the discussions civil. Thanks. Rossami 22:04, 18 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Re the above page, the anon who created it does not appear to appreciate other people adding stuff to his page. I've tried leaving a message on his talk page but have received no response, and have reverted stuff he's added to other pages as well. I guess he just likes to be left alone... -- Graham :) | Talk 17:05, 27 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Okay, no problems. I have a source taht says 19, but I guess it is confusing. Danny 22:04, 27 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Nice edit about the etymology linking the two; I suspected that this was a local folk etymology of the name, but I didn't have quick access to a reliable reference. My personal library isn't as complete as I would like. -- llywrch 17:36, 10 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Kudos on improving the J. R. D. Tata article, including adding his full name. Back when I created the article, I couldn't find it on my web search! I started that article after the Space Shuttle Columbia disaster, because I read Kalpana Chawla had been inspired by him. Anyway, keep up the good work. Cheers, -- Infrogmation 05:23, 11 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Good job on getting the birthdates of everyone. From where did you get them ?! Jay 08:17, 12 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Everyking, RE: Keep -- VfD should not be used to settle scores. Everyking 00:13, 6 Apr 2004 (UTC), Dr Waniek has asked me to say the following on his behalf:
Sincerely, irismeister 18:05, 2004 Apr 19 (UTC)
I would like to express our (collective) great gratitude to all Wikipedians who correct grammatical errors and unidiomatic expressions from pages where ESL-wikipedians have put their mark on the prose. Some foreigners' English is worse than others' — this is not politically correct to state, but I do it anyways — and that of Finns belong to the worst. Thank you! Thank you very much!
If your work on the Presidents of Finland wasn't enough, or if you would like more praise, take a look at: User:Tuomas#Articles_in_need_of_a_check_by_a_native_English_speaker ;-))
/ Tuomas 08:07, 24 Apr 2004 (UTC)
We've agreed with each other three times in one day on VfD. I'm going to go start preparing for the apocalypse. -- Cyrius| ✎ 05:04, Apr 25, 2004 (UTC)
Are you deliberately hounding me? It seems whatever I do, you try to get undone. Falcon 03:22, Apr 29, 2004 (UTC)
As Kaganovich and Molotov were right behind Stalin in terms of raw power in the Soviet system, "how" he engineered the Holodomor is beyond question. Let it rest. -- Ezra 01:01, 2004 Apr 30 (UTC)
I've seen many articles on this site that don't adhere to the NPOV, yet they're not questioned. Shall I point them out?
They were high up in the system, so they were responsible?
Robert Conquest documents it well in "Harvest of Sorrow". It was also documented in "The Stalin-Kaganovich Correspondence 1931-36", released by Yale University Press last year.
It's accepted history that ol' Lazar was little more than a mass-murdering thug.
Seriously, give it a rest. History is immutable.
What if the Joseph Stalin article was nothing but the line "He was a mass-murdering thug."
Diversion. That's not the entirety of the article, though Stalin and Kaganovich were amongst the worst that history has to offer. You're not actually defending Kaganovich, are you? It's akin to defending Nazis and Mao.
I don't play tit-for-tat and I don't delete the work of others. You do what you like and I'll fix whatever vandalism others may do to my contributions.
-- Ezra 01:26, 2004 Apr 30 (UTC)
Hello. I notice you moved a page to Ferdinand von Lindemann. If you click on what links here, you see a bunch of redirects pointing to the old name of the page. When you move a page, you should fix those so that they point directly to the new page. Michael Hardy 21:25, 1 May 2004 (UTC)
You have been nominated for admin status at Wikipedia:Requests for adminship#Nominations for adminship. 172 22:47, 3 May 2004 (UTC)
Congratulations! You are now an administrator. You should read the relevant policies and other pages linked to from the administrators' reading list before carrying out tasks like deletion, protection, banning users, and editing protected pages such as the Main Page. Most of what you do is easily reversible by other sysops, apart from page history merges and image deletion, so please be especially careful with those. Good luck. Angela . 00:07, May 11, 2004 (UTC)
Do you want to make some comments at Talk:Augusto Pinochet#Another poll? 172 15:20, 19 May 2004 (UTC)
Good catch ;) Thanks! jewbacca 05:53, May 23, 2004 (UTC)
Hi. I assume your blanking of MediaWiki:VfD-Robert Kyle Wilson was a mistake. Please don't blank votes in progress. In addition, we retain all votes afte they are complete, either linked to VfD archive or moved to the talk page if they are kept. Thanks - Tεx τ urε 16:12, 27 May 2004 (UTC)
I'm in need of community support.
Right now, I am on the verge of being driven away from Wikipedia through the relentless efforts of a single problem user on Wikipedia:Requests for comment/172, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration, and Wikipedia talk:Requests for arbitration/172 vs VeryVerily.
The same user who refuses to accept the results of the Augusto Pinochet poll (see also [1]) goes through my user history every time he logs on and then starts reverting things that I've written arbitrary. He manages to divert attention away from the articles onto ad hominem attacks, thus poisoning the well against me. [2]
He has been doing nothing else for the past couple of months, other than making some minor changes to pages that he finds through the random page feature. Meanwhile, I've been working on articles such as Empire of Brazil, Dollar Diplomacy, and Franco-U.S. relations. I'm tired of letting a problem user define my contributions to the encyclopedia, as opposed to my work.
I may have said some regrettable things in the past, but my editing practices are scholarly and methodical. When I make an edit, my choice is based on a consideration of the quality of the encyclopedia. Unlike the user who avowedly admits to trying to escalate a personal feud (see, e.g., [3]), I do not decide which pages to edit and what changes to make on the basis of personality feuds, emotional POV whims, or a desire to get attention.
Although this user shows little evidence that he understands the content of the articles, I have shown considerable restraint, given my professional expertise. [4]. Only through community support (i.e. lobbying the arbitration committee)will this user be stopped. Otherwise, Wikipedia will die unless we stop vandals and clueless POV-pushers from running rampant and driving away valued contributors.
Please feel free to direct questions and comments to my talk page or e-mail at sokolov47@yahoo.com.
Sincerely,
172 01:45, 30 May 2004 (UTC)
To return the favour, can you delete the redirect Sir Clive Woodward? he should be at Clive Woodward. Cheers, Dunc Harris | Talk 18:07, 30 May 2004 (UTC)
Talk from February 13, 2004 to June 6, 2004:
Thanks for the revisions on Ferdinand Marcos, Jr., chief. Really appreciate it. - Soup
I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Angela . 00:18, Feb 13, 2004 (UTC)
Thank you for editing page Ara Gaya. It looks a lot better. - Caffelice.
Re Robert Conquest: On what grounds do you dispute the accuracy or neutrality of the following statements?
Adam 04:28, 17 Feb 2004 (UTC)
I don't dispute claim 1, but I felt that, if claim 2 was to be removed, it looked awkward left over in the introduction.
Claim 2 does not take into account the fact that many people believe Conquest's work seriously exaggerated and misrepresented some events in Soviet history. Given that this matter has not yet been settled to the satisfaction of many people, I feel it is best omitted for the sake of neutrality.
Claim 3 is not at all factual. Even many people who accept a great deal of Conquest's work do not accept his ideas about the nature or purpose of the purges.
Think about it like this: if enough people come on to Wikipedia and write or edit articles which treat claims 2 & 3 as something less than absolute historical fact (like the original article that you deemed "shameful"), then perhaps it should be written in such a way as to accomodate those people. It is not like we are talking about the spherical shape of the earth here; it is a point of real controversy.
Notice that I did not attempt to significantly rewrite the article, because I did not want to offend you. I would think that you could accept the minor NPOV revisions that I made, though. Everyking 18:53, 17 Feb 2004 (UTC)
First, thanks for dealing with the Lukashenko article -- Cantus has been really getting under my skin. Second, I'd invite you to weigh in at the new discussion of related matters at Wikipedia_talk:Naming_conventions_(places)#Transliteration_of_Russian_place_names. And (coincidentally? ironically?) I just asked Adam Carr to do the same (see his talk page for why).
Also, I'm going to bed now, but if you haven't already do so, please take a look through Cantus's contributions. Someone needs to watch this character.
Thanks, BCorr ¤ Брайен 05:25, Feb 28, 2004 (UTC)
Yet another thanks for properly Englifying RC and other articles. As to your comment: (might as well add another... or should we substitute Jewish Autonomous Oblast?) -- I'd say it doesn't matter, they are "rootless" remember? :)). Seriously, either way is fine IMHO. -- Humus sapiens | Talk 00:30, 20 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Check out the infobox, 2004 Haiti Rebellion. Need some help with the section of opposing parties. Some reference would be nice. -- Maio 02:05, Mar 3, 2004 (UTC)
I do think a break would help. It'll still be there in a day or two ;-) -- Thanks, BCorr ¤ Брайен 22:30, Mar 4, 2004 (UTC)
Dates: OK well I don't really mind, I agree they ought to be consistent. Adam 05:00, 5 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Everyking, excellent work on Godric of Finchale...one of my little babies. :-) I didn't know he wasn't formally canonized -- good catch on your part! Are you familiar with the book on Godric by Frederick Buechner? It's what led me to write the initial article. Anyway, excellent job: keep it up, and happy editing, Jwrosenzweig 16:43, 8 Mar 2004 (UTC)
He has. He's been vandalizing that talk page, the article, my user page, Hcheney's user page, and Daniel Wright for many weeks and we can't get rid of him since he has a shifting IP address. This guy's a real nutcase. 172 19:55, 9 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Hi Everyking, why did you move "List of Indian female actors" to " List of Indian movie actresses" ? Jay 06:43, 11 Mar 2004 (UTC)
hehe no, I just don't have any points to argue for the name change. Since you've made the change and you have an opinion, you can discuss better, which is why I said I'll support you. Jay 07:21, 13 Mar 2004 (UTC)
From Votes for Deletion - you posted regarding Kosova: "Delete, propaganda". In what respect do you consider it propaganda? -- ChrisO 20:35, 12 Mar 2004 (UTC)
I'm going to bed, and wish you a good night.
(Maybe it would be a good idea to ask some Finn?)
--
Ruhrjung 01:11, 13 Mar 2004 (UTC)
See:
User_talk:Kosebamse#In_need_of_a_second_opinion.
Kosebamse is not a Finn, as far as I know, but living in Sweden where Finnish matters are comparably better known than in most other parts of the world.
--
Ruhrjung 01:21, 14 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Thanks for correcting several of my over-hasty edits.
Also, do you know which happened first? US troops arrive on the island (20,000 of them) -- or Aristide re-assumes power? I don't know whether to say that a UN resolution threatening force caused the junta to back down, or to say that 20,000 US troops + 1,000 other foreign troops invading the country caused the junta to back down. You seem to know more Haitian history than I do, and I'm getting tired of googling for links; it's better just to ask someone who knows. -- Uncle Ed 20:42, 17 Mar 2004 (UTC)
I put some constructive proposal in the talk page. Plaese read and then we can make edits. Cautious 10:13, 18 Mar 2004 (UTC)
On VfD, you wrote "I guess if you think it's silly, that's grounds for deletion, huh?" I know that VfD makes for very thin skins but please try to give others the benefit of the doubt that they are making suggestions with good intent. It's healthy to disagree, but when we can stick to facts and logical arguments and avoid what might be interpreted as emotional attacks, I believe the community will get to better answers. Please help to keep the discussions civil. Thanks. Rossami 22:04, 18 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Re the above page, the anon who created it does not appear to appreciate other people adding stuff to his page. I've tried leaving a message on his talk page but have received no response, and have reverted stuff he's added to other pages as well. I guess he just likes to be left alone... -- Graham :) | Talk 17:05, 27 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Okay, no problems. I have a source taht says 19, but I guess it is confusing. Danny 22:04, 27 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Nice edit about the etymology linking the two; I suspected that this was a local folk etymology of the name, but I didn't have quick access to a reliable reference. My personal library isn't as complete as I would like. -- llywrch 17:36, 10 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Kudos on improving the J. R. D. Tata article, including adding his full name. Back when I created the article, I couldn't find it on my web search! I started that article after the Space Shuttle Columbia disaster, because I read Kalpana Chawla had been inspired by him. Anyway, keep up the good work. Cheers, -- Infrogmation 05:23, 11 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Good job on getting the birthdates of everyone. From where did you get them ?! Jay 08:17, 12 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Everyking, RE: Keep -- VfD should not be used to settle scores. Everyking 00:13, 6 Apr 2004 (UTC), Dr Waniek has asked me to say the following on his behalf:
Sincerely, irismeister 18:05, 2004 Apr 19 (UTC)
I would like to express our (collective) great gratitude to all Wikipedians who correct grammatical errors and unidiomatic expressions from pages where ESL-wikipedians have put their mark on the prose. Some foreigners' English is worse than others' — this is not politically correct to state, but I do it anyways — and that of Finns belong to the worst. Thank you! Thank you very much!
If your work on the Presidents of Finland wasn't enough, or if you would like more praise, take a look at: User:Tuomas#Articles_in_need_of_a_check_by_a_native_English_speaker ;-))
/ Tuomas 08:07, 24 Apr 2004 (UTC)
We've agreed with each other three times in one day on VfD. I'm going to go start preparing for the apocalypse. -- Cyrius| ✎ 05:04, Apr 25, 2004 (UTC)
Are you deliberately hounding me? It seems whatever I do, you try to get undone. Falcon 03:22, Apr 29, 2004 (UTC)
As Kaganovich and Molotov were right behind Stalin in terms of raw power in the Soviet system, "how" he engineered the Holodomor is beyond question. Let it rest. -- Ezra 01:01, 2004 Apr 30 (UTC)
I've seen many articles on this site that don't adhere to the NPOV, yet they're not questioned. Shall I point them out?
They were high up in the system, so they were responsible?
Robert Conquest documents it well in "Harvest of Sorrow". It was also documented in "The Stalin-Kaganovich Correspondence 1931-36", released by Yale University Press last year.
It's accepted history that ol' Lazar was little more than a mass-murdering thug.
Seriously, give it a rest. History is immutable.
What if the Joseph Stalin article was nothing but the line "He was a mass-murdering thug."
Diversion. That's not the entirety of the article, though Stalin and Kaganovich were amongst the worst that history has to offer. You're not actually defending Kaganovich, are you? It's akin to defending Nazis and Mao.
I don't play tit-for-tat and I don't delete the work of others. You do what you like and I'll fix whatever vandalism others may do to my contributions.
-- Ezra 01:26, 2004 Apr 30 (UTC)
Hello. I notice you moved a page to Ferdinand von Lindemann. If you click on what links here, you see a bunch of redirects pointing to the old name of the page. When you move a page, you should fix those so that they point directly to the new page. Michael Hardy 21:25, 1 May 2004 (UTC)
You have been nominated for admin status at Wikipedia:Requests for adminship#Nominations for adminship. 172 22:47, 3 May 2004 (UTC)
Congratulations! You are now an administrator. You should read the relevant policies and other pages linked to from the administrators' reading list before carrying out tasks like deletion, protection, banning users, and editing protected pages such as the Main Page. Most of what you do is easily reversible by other sysops, apart from page history merges and image deletion, so please be especially careful with those. Good luck. Angela . 00:07, May 11, 2004 (UTC)
Do you want to make some comments at Talk:Augusto Pinochet#Another poll? 172 15:20, 19 May 2004 (UTC)
Good catch ;) Thanks! jewbacca 05:53, May 23, 2004 (UTC)
Hi. I assume your blanking of MediaWiki:VfD-Robert Kyle Wilson was a mistake. Please don't blank votes in progress. In addition, we retain all votes afte they are complete, either linked to VfD archive or moved to the talk page if they are kept. Thanks - Tεx τ urε 16:12, 27 May 2004 (UTC)
I'm in need of community support.
Right now, I am on the verge of being driven away from Wikipedia through the relentless efforts of a single problem user on Wikipedia:Requests for comment/172, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration, and Wikipedia talk:Requests for arbitration/172 vs VeryVerily.
The same user who refuses to accept the results of the Augusto Pinochet poll (see also [1]) goes through my user history every time he logs on and then starts reverting things that I've written arbitrary. He manages to divert attention away from the articles onto ad hominem attacks, thus poisoning the well against me. [2]
He has been doing nothing else for the past couple of months, other than making some minor changes to pages that he finds through the random page feature. Meanwhile, I've been working on articles such as Empire of Brazil, Dollar Diplomacy, and Franco-U.S. relations. I'm tired of letting a problem user define my contributions to the encyclopedia, as opposed to my work.
I may have said some regrettable things in the past, but my editing practices are scholarly and methodical. When I make an edit, my choice is based on a consideration of the quality of the encyclopedia. Unlike the user who avowedly admits to trying to escalate a personal feud (see, e.g., [3]), I do not decide which pages to edit and what changes to make on the basis of personality feuds, emotional POV whims, or a desire to get attention.
Although this user shows little evidence that he understands the content of the articles, I have shown considerable restraint, given my professional expertise. [4]. Only through community support (i.e. lobbying the arbitration committee)will this user be stopped. Otherwise, Wikipedia will die unless we stop vandals and clueless POV-pushers from running rampant and driving away valued contributors.
Please feel free to direct questions and comments to my talk page or e-mail at sokolov47@yahoo.com.
Sincerely,
172 01:45, 30 May 2004 (UTC)
To return the favour, can you delete the redirect Sir Clive Woodward? he should be at Clive Woodward. Cheers, Dunc Harris | Talk 18:07, 30 May 2004 (UTC)