This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
This is a new arcade game if anyone wants to add it. There is no information on it yet.
And by the way, if it has Shadow in it, it does not automatically make it a main game. Put it in the arcade section where it belongs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.162.43.210 ( talk) 18:59, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
Where is this Game Gear Videogame???? It must apear in Handheld games section -- 83.37.32.227 ( talk) 10:33, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
I was wondering the same thing. -- 189.129.144.146 ( talk) 02:01, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
This game shouldn't be include in the main series as it is a spin-off, this would be like adding Knuckles Chaotix to the main series list.
Why has this been readded and the page put on protection without mention? Either put Chaotix on the list as well or remove Shadow the Hedgehog.
Shadow passes the revised inclusion criteria as it ties in with the main games and includes running and jumping. It just adds another mechanic to the basic one. Hello 21 12 20:00, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
Why isn't Chaotix also included then? It follows the same basic gameplay and while it does feature a different gimmic(elastic rings), it's no different than Shadow's use of weapons. Also in the manuel it ties into the story as well. Though I'm still sure Shadow is a spinoff and should be included as a spinoff game as it does not continue the main series. Sonic not being the main character being the obvious factor. Also the criteria mentions "odd gameplay" as games not in the main series, which Shadow the Hedgehog has, meaning it does not pass.
It appears fixed now anyway, and if the new one explains that then it's clearly wrong. Shadow the Hedgehog is an obvious spin-off and only obsessed fans can't see past that. There are even interviews that state that Sonic Team has always wanted to make a game for Shadow and maybe even create a spin-off series for it. Chaotix does have the same basic gameplay as 2D Sonic games, the altered ring system isn't significant at all and is no different than being able to preform magical powers and driving motorcycles with shotguns.
Why did someone put Shadow the Hedgehog under a spin-off title? When it clearly isn't. And I'm not an obsessive fanboy. It is part of the main series as it LINKS Sonic Adventure 2, Sonic Heroes, and Sonic 06 together. It has the same basic gameplay as previous Sonic games. ( Running fast, going off speed ramps, get to goal ring, event scenes, and includes the ENTIRE Sonic cast as part of the main story. All it did was add in a few gameplay changes. Hell, It's like calling Sonic Heroes a spin-off because it used team based gameplay instead of solo gameplay. I don't approve of this change, and so I fixed the issue. Sonic Riders I can understand, as the story doesn't link to any of the previous games, and it has completely different gameplay. Takashi Iizuka may have said that he wanted to create a spin-off series for Shadow, but if you read his quote carefully, he said a spin-off series in the possible future. He didn't say that this game was a direct spin-off, when it was obvious a large portion of Team Darks story in Heroes was set up for Shadow's game. Also, in Sonic 06, Shadow joins GUN, after he settles his issues with them in his own game, he actually works for them now.......so yeah, the main series sonic games are linked to this one. -- S200048 ( talk) 02:36, 7 March 2008 (UTC)s200048
From the above discussions, I have drawn up an inclusion criteria that is based on a games' merit which goes out of the way to avoid personal bias:
In times past the Sonic game templates were subject to edit wars over different points of view. The following criteria is a set of principles to guide inclusion of games in a particular navigational template, and is considered a standard that all editors should follow. However, it is not set in stone and should be treated with common sense and the occasional exception. When editing this page, please ensure that your revision reflects consensus. When in doubt, discuss first on the talk page.
A game can appear in {{
Sonic games}}
if and only if:
Failing any of the above:
1a. | Success is evaluated on a game-by-game basis, not by influence in fan works. Suggested evaluation methods: GameRankings, MobyGames, amount of press coverage, sales, etc. |
1b. | A main-series game has significant page history at Sonic the Hedgehog (series)#TIMELINE. Note that not all such games are suitable here. |
1c. | Games must satisfy both criteria 1a and 1b. |
2. | This is the criteria the main article uses. |
3. | The game is built around the usual running and jumping. For example, this would include Shadow the Hedgehog, but it would not include Sonic Riders. |
4. | Use common sense when choosing between handheld and spin offs. A good suggestion is that a handheld game is a handheld 2D platformer that does not meet the above criteria. |
The purpose of this inclusion criteria is decide what is included in {{ Sonic games}}, not where it goes if it is unsuitable for this template. However, as rule, the GameGear series and other GameBoy games are generally placed in {{ Sonic games (handheld)}}, provided their gameplay and reception doesn't make them nothing more that a spin off. Under the above criteria, Sonic Riders is a spin off, with Sonic Battle being a spin off whose handheld platform being the only thing keeping it out of {{ Sonic games (spin off)}}. On the other hand, Sonic Pinball Party is not in {{ Sonic games (handheld)}} because it is not a platformer.
Barring no objections, I propose we transclude the above on all Sonic template pages via something like <noinclude>{{Sonic games/doc}}</noinclude> — davidh. oz. au 09:37, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
i'm willing to support this, it seems fair. El cid the hero 11:41, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
Stop. Adding. Secret. Rings. To. The. Template. It has been determined as having odd gameplay, meaning that it is in the spin-offs template. Hello 21 12 01:12, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
It's pretty obvious that Secret Rings IS part of the main series. There is absolutely NO evidence to disprove it. Oh, the gameplay's different. So? Sonic Adventure's gameplay was radically different from the 2D Sonic games. Does that make it a spinoff too? Oh, and the story's different? Every single 3D Sonic story has been different, in case you haven't noticed. It IS part of the main series. 207.224.61.246 18:23, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
per Supermorff's suggestions:
In times past the Sonic game templates were subject to edit wars over different points of view. The following criteria is a set of principles to guide inclusion of games in a particular navigational template, and is considered a standard that all editors should follow. However, it is not set in stone and should be treated with common sense and the occasional exception. When editing this page, please ensure that your revision reflects consensus. When in doubt, discuss first on the talk page.
The purpose of this inclusion criteria is to decide what is included in {{
Sonic games}} and where a game goes if it is unsuitable for the main template. Successful main series games usually appear in the main template, while the GameGear series and all other GameBoy games are generally placed in {{
Sonic games (handheld)}}. All other games that were somehow lacking in either story, gameplay, reception or platform would be spin offs. However, this guide was not designed to go into detail about how a spin off is different from a handhand game. When in doubt, don't move it.
A game can appear in {{ Sonic games}} if and only if:
Failing any of the above, said game can appear in {{ Sonic games (handheld)}} if:
A game can appear in {{ Sonic games (spin off)}} if the above criteria fails to find a suitable place.
1a. | Success is evaluated on a game-by-game basis, not by influence in fan works. Suggested evaluation methods: GameRankings, MobyGames, amount of press coverage, sales, etc. |
1b. | A main-series game has significant page history at Sonic the Hedgehog (series)#TIMELINE. Note that not all such games are suitable for {{ Sonic games}}. |
1c. | Games must satisfy both criteria 1a and 1b. |
2. | This is the criteria the main article uses. |
3. | The game is built around the usual running and jumping. For example, this would include Shadow the Hedgehog, but it would not include Sonic Riders. |
The first five conditions are used to eliminate games from the template, and the last two are used to decide where to place these "eliminated" items. If the first five conditions are met, it is not necessary to consider the remainder of the criteria.
The foremost example of using this criteria is the inclusion of the Sonic Advance series and Sonic Rush in the main template. GameRankings confirms that they sold well and the linked reviews indicate that they are some of the better Sonic games out there (1a), and casual inspection of the main article confirms that they are part of the main series (1b). The other four criteria are more directly verified. Each game has a linked story (2), are platformers (3), Sonic is the main character (4), and they do not contradict each other (5). Sonic Rush and the Sonic Advance series belong in the main template because the first five conditions have been satisfied.
A trivial example of how this inclusion criteria works would be demonstrating that Sonic Riders is a spin off because it fails criterion 3 (gameplay) in the first group and 7 (not a handheld game) in the second group. Another example is Sonic Battle which satisfies all criteria in the first group except for criteria 3 (it is a fighting game), and so it is a handheld game because it satisfies criterion 6 in the second group. In an even more bizarre case, Knuckles' Chaotix would be a spinoff because it features an altered ring system. On the other hand, Sonic Pinball Party is not in {{ Sonic games (handheld)}} because it fails criteria 3 and 7 (not a platformer).
Every single attempt by Wikipedians to classify articles with endless sets of "inclusion criteria" has long since proven to be nothing more than an exercise in frustration. There will always be occasions when an article will not fall neatly into one single niche, and these articles tend to make rules like this worthless. When implementing this inclusion criteria, please remember to use common sense and consider that perhaps the most useful piece of information on this page might not be the inclusion criteria but the introductory message.
Revised in an attempt to more fully encompass the other templates. — davidh. oz. au 08:17, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
Note: the above comments were made before the following edits was made to the section under discussion:
diff reword of lead paragraph and added another paragraph to "using this criteria" —
davidh.
oz.
au 02:03, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
diff fixed some small typing errors. —
davidh.
oz.
au 12:50, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
Well, a template is good in theory, but I'm of the idea that it just isn't necessary. Rather than enter never ending debates over what game should go where (like Secret Rings for example), and IMO, pointlessly separating off games by common features, why don't we just have a link to the list of Sonic games or something? Hell, I'd even make a disambiguation page of sorts and that lists links to each game article with the only distinction being the year released. I'd actually do something similar with the characters. In fact, a link to the Sonic Characters category is more than sufficient for that as it's already separated by the first letter of the name. (Not to mention the game character template is embarrassingly small anyways.)
Comments? GrandMasterGalvatron 03:56, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
That does indeed sound like a good idea, there are many people who will consider Shadow the Hedgehog as being part of the main series, and many who won't, as well as many who won't include Sonic and the Secret Rings as a main game whilst others won't. Creating a list of Sonic games and released in which year and what not sounds more organized and accessable to me as well.
A list lacks the usability and simplicity of a template. Templates are designed to allow quick navigation to strongly related subjects. Having a list would defeat that purpose. El cid the hero 15:31, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
After one and half months of discussion, the inclusion criteria has now gone live! I hope you all enjoyed the process and I hope everyone present has gained an insight into the way wikipedia makes guidelines. As always, if anyone has any questions feel free to ask, or just go ahead and edit the new template documentation. — davidh. oz. au 05:03, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
I think this game should be in this template. It's the sequel to Sonic Rush, after all, which considered to be a main series game now. But then again, the game hasn't come out yet... 206.66.217.144 19:30, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
Sonics rush is not considered a main series installment, because Blaze the cat is different in that game than in Sonicthe Hedgehog (2006), and speaking of which, Sonic the Hedgehog shouldn't be listed as a main series installment, on account the events of that game never happened, I personally think that Sonic Battle and Sonic Rivals should be listed as main series instead. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.244.187.115 ( talk) 23:04, 28 April 2007 (UTC).
Super Mario Bros. 2 is a dream and it is considered in the main series of Super Mario, why Sonic the Hedgehog 2006 shouldn't be considered in the main series of Sonic (Don't go delete Super Mario Bros. 2 in the Mario template). And because the events of this game was erased from history, the lives of Blaze and Silver in the future might be heavily modified, then Blaze can now be a princess who defends the Sol Emeralds. Sonic Rush is in that way a main series installment. Also, I think Sonic and the Secret Rings can be in the main series, magical objects are common in the series, why the arabian nights book can't be one of these magical objects. The story of that Sonic game is considered canon in that way and the game is a platformer, different from the others, but it is a platformer. Shadow the Hedgehog isn't a main series installment, I had a lot of trouble to explain that before, but all the previous discussions were deleted. Again with a comparison with Mario, putting Shadow the Hedgehog in the main series is completely like putting Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island in the Mario main series, it can't be there because the main character isn't Sonic/Mario, but Shadow/Yoshi. And I think these games are also main series installments : Sonic the Hedgehog (8-bits), Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (8-bits), Sonic the Hedgehog Chaos, Sonic the Hedgehog Triple Trouble, Sonic Blast, Sonic the Hedgehog: Pocket Adventure, Sonic Advance, Sonic Advance 2, Sonic Advance 3 and Sonic Rivals (not Sonic Battle). DjinnFighter 21:22, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
Sheesh, this has been discussed before. Read the previous sections where the reasons why we made the changes, both here and in the archive. We were getting tired of the edits wars and decided to do something about it. Just follow the agreed-upon documentation. — davidh. oz. au 05:15, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
You are right about sonic 2006 being a main series and sonic Battle not being main series, but neither Sonic Rush or Sonic Rivals can be classed as main series. See the Eggman Nega article and read "story confusion" section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.244.42.165 ( talk) 23:17, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
Shouldn't it be like SONIC savong the planet eg.Sonic & Knuckles had Sonic stopping Egghead yadayadayada you know what I mean.Like that.And I agree with DjinnFighter. 121.210.96.191 ( talk) 08:55, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
Does this game make any direct reference to other main series games? Because if it doesn't, I don't think it should be in the main series template. The game does fit the criteria in the sense that it is a successful game with Sonic in it and the gameplay is the typical running and jumping, but I don't think game makes any direct reference to other main series games. I haven't played this game, so I can't say for sure that it doesn't make a reference. Can someone provide an example of a direct reference in the game? 206.66.217.142 17:03, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
The game is, in essence, a mainstream Sonic game (it is a single player platformer with Sonic as the main playable character). While it does not explicitly reference past Sonic games (like most of the other games, however), and the storyline is slightly different (ie: this time, Eggman is not the main villain...), some references are made in the game, as for example when Sonic meets Sinbad, he mistakes him for Knuckles, which shows he already met him, thus referencing previous Sonic games. Therefore, the game should be listed as a main Sonic game, where it belongs. If Sonic & the Secret Rings is not listed as a mainstream Sonic game, then Shadow the Hedgehog should not either, as the storyline is also different and moreover it does not feature Sonic as the main playable character (some might even say it has an "odd gameplay" and that the title of the game does not even include the word "Sonic", but I do not want to argue about this). While the storyline of Sonic & the Secret Rings is a spin-off from the main series storyline (yet the same could be said about Shadow the Hedgehog), the game itself is a traditional Sonic game, light years away from say Sonic R or Sonic Fighters, which are not even platformers. That being said, I recommend you play and enjoy this wonderful game and consider my suggestion. -87.231.185.217- around 15:00 UTC, 22 June 2007
I think the criteria doesn't work. And Sonic does not have "odd gameplay" because it is a platformer. Willy105 17:55, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
I suggest the game should be kept in the main series template, as there is no consensus it is a spin-off game. Moreover, I would like GrandMasterGalvatron to explain which criteria the game fails. -87.231.185.217- 13:00, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
I think this entire debate can be summed up like this... "it's a Wii game, too different and it confuses and angers me GRAAAAH!!!" 208.101.138.65 21:30, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
I'm willing to put it either place. As far as I'm concerned, just because it's a spin-off, it does not make it not canon. Does it mean it's a main series game? No. But is it canon. Only the future will tell. If a cnon game in 2011 references this game, then it's on. There's really no proof either way. Sabre Knight 13:17, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
You can't have Sonic Advance 3 without Sonic Battle, that's impossible because of the Gizoid. 208.101.130.232 13:09, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
Another example is Sonic Battle which satisfies all criteria in the first group except for criteria 3 (it is a fighting game), and so it is a handheld game because it satisfies criterion 6 in the second group.
I think that the one determining factor for placing any game in the Main Series template is if Sonic is the undisputed main character of the game. I.E., Sonic Battle, as enjoyable and Sonic-focused as it is, should not be placed in this category as Emerl takes the place of the lead role. The same should go for Shadow the Hedgehog; Sonic is not the main character, therefore the game is not in the main canon. However, does anyone think the status of Main Game should also be determined by the storyline events?
SaviorOfImagination 20:23, 28 June (UTC)
I argue with that. Mainly, because "Shadow the Hedgehog" is on there. I think I've made my point. DarknessLord 12:48, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
Note: See my point above. Sabre Knight 13:18, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi The Sonic RPG article has been created, but I'm not sure which Sonic templates it fits into. There seems to be pretty strict rules regarding what fits where. Opinions?
The article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_rpg
Philtrauferson 21:11, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
Sonic chaos Sonic triple trouble Sonic blast and 3D blast should be here and Secret rings is not canon because Tails Knuckles and Eggman do not remember him and Sonic riders is canon. Sonic 3 & Knuckles should be in the template somewhere too.
Heh, I really should pay more attention to what's happening on the wiki. Since the timeline was been deleted the main article months ago, I think the inclusion criteria should go to since it was just to get us past a rough patch. — davidh. oz. au 14:14, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
Canned. — davidh. oz. au 12:39, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
Shouldn't this be included here? And while I think about it, this should be merged with the handheld section. Aside from the system there's no difference. - 82.42.162.112 11:26, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
No it shouldn't for both of your suggestions. There is nothing to suggest that Sonic 3D ever was canon, which is what this template is for. And handheld =/= canon, for most of the games in that template at least. So no. Hello 21 12 19:27, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
Wow! That's EXACTLY why Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine is here, even after being completely ignored on multiple official websites! BRILLIANT!!!
... Honestly. 208.101.140.232 16:42, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
When'd this template get merged with the other three back into the metatemplate? Hello 21 12 18:25, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
I've notice that Super Smash Bros. Brawl keeps on being added to to the spinoff part and removed it, then put a note. Just to want to note Super Smash Bros. Brawl does belong there, because it is not a Sonic-spinoff game. It's the same reason why we don't add the game to every other series templates whose characters are in Brawl. It would like add SSBB to Metal Gear series template. Magiciandude ( talk) 02:13, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
I don't know who keeps adding it and I agree that it's not part of the sonic series but it's still worth mentioning. Would it be acceptable to make a section for "related games" because there are several games where sonic is the star but they are not strictly part of the sonic series. e.g. Sega superstars and sega superstars tennis. 81.98.227.168 ( talk) 16:26, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
Just a few points I'd like to make:
I just notice,like,half the template is gone. WTF? I don't know how to revert back to the last change, so... —Preceding unsigned comment added by GENERALZERO ( talk • contribs) 03:28, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
The instructions section says:
But in fact, Advance and Rush are listed under "Handhelds". So either the instructions or the template should be changed... Ben Standeven ( talk) 02:41, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
These lines:
[[fr:Modèle:Sonic]]
[[ja:Template:ソニックシリーズ]]
[[simple:Template:SonicGames]]
[[th:โซนิคแอดเวนเจอร์]]
should be put into <noinclude>
. And that simple-thing should be removed, since it doesn't exist (anymore?)...
194.105.96.202 (
talk) 14:46, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
After reading discussion above, how about we do the same type of thing with the Sonic Compilations template and make handheld, Main series, and Spinoffs different templates instead? It takes off a lot of controversy and confusion. -- Hasek is the best ( talk) 01:00, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
I like this new template, but I think it needs some minor changes. -Merge the main series sections togeather (I can see seperating the 2D from 3D, but come on, it's main series or it isn't) -Move the Spin-off section between the Sonic Riders section and Edutainment section (personally, I believe the Edutainment games should be considered spins-offs, but I can see why they're seperated)
But what does anyone else think? LightningLuigi ( talk) 02:06, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
Cannon: Sonic 1, 2, 3, etc.
NonCannon: Shuffle, Drift, Fighters, etc.
Skeletal S.L.J.C.O.A.A.A.T.R. 21:45, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
I've been thinking about it, and there may be a way to orginize each game into it's respective series while reducing the number of sub-templates. What does everyone think about this layout:
Main Series (Console): Sonic the Hedgehog (1991) • Sonic 2 • Sonic 3 • Sonic & Knuckles • Sonic Adventure • Sonic Adventure 2 • Sonic Heros • Shadow the Hedgehog • Sonic the Hedgehog (2006) • Sonic Unleashed
Main Series (Handheld): Sonic the Hedgehog • Sonic 2 • Sonic Chaos • Sonic Triple Trouble • Sonic Blast • Sonic Labyrinth • Sonic Pocket Adventure • Sonic Battle • Sonic Advance • 2 • 3 • Sonic Rush • Sonic Rush Adventure • Sonic Rivals • 2 • Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood
Spin-offs: Sonic Eraser • Waku Waku Sonic Patrol Car • SegaSonic the Hedgehog • SegaSonic Cosmo Fighter • Sonic Spinball • Sonic Drift • 2 • Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine • Sonic Gameworld • Wacky Worlds Creativity Studio • Tails and the Music Maker • Tails' Skypatrol • Tails Adventure • Knuckles' Chaotix • Sonic the Fighters • Sonic 3D • Sonic R • Sonic's Schoolhouse • Sonic Shuffle • Sonic Pinball Party • Sonic Riders • Zero Gravity • Sonic and the Secret Rings • Sonic and the Black Knight • Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games
Some edits may be nessacary, but I believe this template design could work very well. What does everyone else think? LightningLuigi ( talk) 03:30, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
Fair enough, how does it look now? LightningLuigi ( talk) 16:13, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
I think that I ma have missed a few games though... Skeletal S.L.J.C.O.A.A.A.T.R. 18:06, 24 July 2008 (UTC) I hadn't actually edited the template yet, I edited my sample template above. I was waiting for someone's approval.
Anyway, your template was slightly inaccurate, so I edited it. The main flaws were in the Home Console Spin-off section, where many of the games in that category were actually handheld (though some had console ports, the main system was handheld, as the console versions were not released in as many regions as the handheld versions). I also edited the order of some of the games to be cronological and added Sonic Chaos, Triple Trouble, and Blast to the Handheld Main Series, under the basis that they are Sonic platform games simular in design to both the console games and other main series handheld games.
If you (or anyone) would like to change the template, I ask that it is discussed here first so it don't lead to an edit war (I myself admit I should have posted first before making my edits, and I apologize). —Preceding unsigned comment added by LightningLuigi ( talk • contribs) 22:38, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
I prefered the template before the current one, it seemed more organised, this seems a little cluttered. -[The-DC]- ( talk) 07:59, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
I shall be adding the Mobile Sonic games to the template, though, I believe none have articles, so this may be pointless. As to DC, the previous version was just thrown about be sequals, it's alot neater now, and organises games by their cannonicty, which is much more encyclopedic. Skeletal S.L.J.C.O.A.A.A.T.R. 03:54, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
Sega has announced that Black Knight is a sequel to Secret Rings and part of the "Storybook series". Should we add a new part to the template with Secret Rings and Black Knight? Willy105 ( talk) 14:01, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
I've never played the game personally, but apprantly its a spin-off of Sonic Advance, so should it be included as part of the Sonic Advance series? -[The-DC]- ( talk) 11:16, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
It's organized entirely by Generation, but you can still see which games are in the main series. (They're bold)
It's ok but looks kind of unorganized still. I prefered the one above but here I made some changes to it:
And I'd hate to see Sonic 3D in Spinoffs since
Why was it just removed from the main series? Because it's an RPG? It's a valid game just like Sonic Battle, so there should be no excuses. And "keep dreaming buddy" is hardly a worthy reason to kick it off. 71.224.116.166 ( talk) 04:10, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
Okay, for one thing, it follows up after Sonic Battle and Sonic Advance 3, which is part of the main series. It'll have Gizoids in it. Second, the consensus reached above (see Sonic RPG) was to consider it a main series game. 208.101.164.253 ( talk) 13:52, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
http://www.sega.com/sonicchronicles/us/images/subNavThumb_gizoids.png —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.101.130.208 ( talk) 23:43, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
Look, I understand now that I might have stepped into the middle of an ongoing flame/edit-war, but that's still no reason for ANYBODY to say stuff like this! The game I added ( Sonic: The Fated Hour) is marked with a SonicGames-tag. And the template is called "Sonic the Hedgehog video games", not "Important Sonic Games". Also, the template already was on the game's page. So I came to the conclusion it was a mistake/inconsistency, and it should be added to the template. Which is what I did. I'm (now) very sorry that I didn't consult anybody else before doing it, but I cannot see any reason for such a response. SLJCOAAATR 1, if you can't just tell some new guy he did something wrong in a normal fasion, then don't say/edit anything at all. -- DanielPharos ( talk) 20:28, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
Reason 1: Putting Sonic '06 in the spin-off section. First, the game's events end up being erased from history, and all that canonically happens is Sonic visiting Elise's parade. For much better proof that it is a spin-off, there is an article that states Sonic Team cuts ties with Sonic '06 right here: http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=186523 . Lastly, this game contradicts the earlier Sonic games A LOT, such as when Silver gives Elise the blue chaos emerald ten years before the present, wiping out every main series Sonic game except Sonic 1 (1991), because that game only featured six Chaos Emeralds. Now, who agrees that Sonic '06 should be moved to the Home console Spin-off section, and who disagrees? Majority and common sense will rule whether or not it is changed. Please respond with your opinion! Usernamesarekewl ( talk) 19:19, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
Uh... so we have two for main series, do we have anyone for spin-off? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.201.26.20 ( talk) 21:20, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
Please tell me where your proof is. A link? An article? Please show me and I'll agree with you. 72.201.26.20 ( talk) 21:29, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
Also please tell me an example where it connects with other games. 72.201.26.20 ( talk) 21:29, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
I looked at all the references, which article states that it's a main series game? And how do you explain the Blaze dilemma. I'm not trying to say it's not a main series game anymore, I'm just curious. :) Usernamesarekewl ( talk) 21:44, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
As for Blaze, remember when she locked herself & Iblis into another dimension? For whatever reason, erasing Solaris didn't bring Blaze back. Time moves differently on this alternate dimension (Like in Sonic X S3) ,so when Sonic went to that dimension, and vice-versa, they were on a similar timeline. Skeletal S.L.J.C.O.A.A.A.T.R. 23:29, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
Ohhhh, ok thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.201.26.20 ( talk) 00:00, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
What about the Sonic Rush-Sonic Rivals dilemma... I don't get it- is Eggman Nega Eggman's other-dimensional counterpart or his descendant? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.201.26.20 ( talk) 04:47, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
Simple. Sonic Rivals doesn't count, so Eggman Nega is Eggman's dimensional counterpart. It wasn't even released in Japan, and we know that the Japanese continuity is the one in which the series is supported on. I say we move Rivals to spinoffs. I'd also move Sonic 2006 to spinoffs since Sega's going to be ignoring it, but I'll leave that one open for more debate.
I will say this, though - Sega has not released an official explanation about how Blaze was in the future in Sonic 2006 even though it's established that her home is in another universe. No, the dimension thing doesn't count, since 1) that doesn't explain how she's been royalty, and 2) you've think Sonic would recognize her in Sonic 2006 or that Blaze would retain some memory of Sonic 2006 (depending on which you think occurs first). Going around these two holes is just assuming things. The fact of the matter is, these games were developed independent of each other. I, for one, think it's obvious that Sonic 2006 / Rivals and Rush occur in separate continuities. 208.101.130.208 ( talk) 17:39, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
They definitely seem like alternate continuity games. In fact, the Japanese manual of Sonic & Tails 2 implies that this was Sonic's first meeting with Knuckles. This alone should indicate that they don't occur in the main series. Quittaboi ( talk) 17:48, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
After extensive reasearch, I have decided these things:
Sonic '06 and the Sonic Rivals series are NOT canon to the main series. There is NO way Rush, Rivals, and '06 can exist in the same continuity! And the Rush series is definetely canon.
None of the Sonic Game Gear games are canon to the main series. There is an interview here:
... that states that Yuji Naka didn't even know some of the Game Gear games existed! Plus, they contradict most other games that are definetely canon (especially Sonic Triple Trouble) and so they shouldn't be canon to the main series. Lastly...
Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood should be canon! It deals VERY explicitly with previous definite canon Sonic games (especially the Adventure series, Sonic Advance 3 and Sonic Battle) and it even continues the stories of these games! Bioware even stated that they were going to fix up plotholes left from other games.
But every time I change something, Skeletal yells at and insults me and immediately changes it back! Who else is tired of this? And who else agrees with me? Somebody brave stand up! The template should be changed to the way it should be! I know from other discussion topics that many ppl agree with me! Thanks for readin' this. Usernamesarekewl ( talk) 23:04, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
This is what I'm talking about. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.201.26.20 ( talk) 22:38, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
Come on, guys. We all know fansites are total liars that don't specialize in Sonic the Hedgehog, especially when they go ahead and source themselves. Oh look, we have to grab our information from Sega's official (product) website! Hmm, looks like they don't have an interviews section. Therefore, your interview is null and void, it never existed and I can keep enforcing whatever I believe. </sarcasm>
But seriously, Wikipedia's game-related information as of late has taken a downward spiral. It used to be somewhat flexible, but now you've got the "crusaders" running around like lawyers trying to make things as straightforward as possible. That's probably why some fans created special wikis of their series, so no one else can bastardize them. 208.101.159.251 ( talk) 18:20, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
After searching for some of the older system roms online, I found a good chunk of games that were missing from this list... Sonic Pinball Party for GBA is a good example; if Sonic Spinball would be considered a Console Spinoff, wouldn't Pinball Party be listed under Handheld Spinoffs?
The other games I found not listed here were compilations. I had to do a wiki search for Sonic Jam to find if it even had an article, and the group listed on the article was compilations. I figured it would be easier to add the comp. group to this list instead of adding the game list to all of the comp. games' articles in addition to the lists they already had.
I apologize if this angers anyone in the discussion; I only read through about half of the comments here, and although I respect the rules listed, I find that it defeats the purpose of Wiki's Encyclopedic layout not to give as much information as possible in the clearest and most concise way possible -- adding this section to the list not only keeps wiki pros from having to search for the games' articles, but also gives newcomers easy access to information for games they otherwise may not have known existed. Irontobias ( talk) 20:37, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
Skeletal SLJCOAAATR Soulsor 18:21, 28 September 2008 (UTC)== Chronicles ==
...should be considered for main series. :D -[The-DC]- ( talk) 17:20, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
I don't think Sonic the Hedgehog CD should be included into the main series because it isn't on a "main" Sega console. The Sega CD was a spin-off of the Genesis, and therefore Sonic CD should be considered a spin-off of the main Sonic series.
In addition, the main page for the Sonic series clearly states:
"The original four main Sonic titles for the Mega Drive/Genesis, released between 1991 and 1994, were:
* Sonic the Hedgehog
* Sonic 2
* Sonic 3
* Sonic & Knuckles"
Sonic CD is not mentioned.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by AnAlbinoRhino ( talk • contribs) 01:12, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
Well first of all the entire Wikipedia site should be consistent. You can't have the main page for the Sonic series leave Sonic CD out, then have the template at the bottom include it.
In any case, I read that article, but it doesn't really matter if Sonic CD was at one point Sonic 2. This is similar to how Resident Evil Code: Veronica was initially planned to be Resident Evil 3 (although this isn't the best example because Code: Veronica is considered a main Resident Evil series entry, but you get my point). It doesn't matter that Sonic CD was at one point Sonic 2 because in the end it didn't end up that way. —Preceding unsigned comment added by AnAlbinoRhino ( talk • contribs) 19:31, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
Where is that from? I was just wondering if SEGA decided that or we did. Fairfieldfencer FFF 10:29, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
I've made a shortened version of this template. May I put this to the template page?
Explorer09 ( talk) 04:21, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
A much shorter version:
Explorer09 ( talk) 04:43, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
Proof here: http://www.totalvideogames.com/Shadow-the-Hedgehog/news/SEGA-Announce-Shadow-the-Hedgehog-7102.html
Why isn't this game a main series? It introduces new charcters to the series and has some influence on Sonic Heroes (greatly), Sonic Advance 3, and Shadow the Hedgehog. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.3.8.8 ( talk) 19:16, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
For some reason, Sonic Adventure, Sonic Adventure 2 and Sonic Unleashed have been removed from the main series. They are indeed in the main series. The first two offer most of the main series plots later on (Chaos data absorbed by Metal Sonic, the E-Series, Big, Shadow, Rouge, the ARK), and they offer the same gameplay as later games (Heroes, Shadow, etc.), so why do they now have their own section?
Also, Secret Rings/Black Knight should not have their own section. They should be with the rest of the spinoffs, really. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.227.210.12 ( talk) 00:33, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
O.K., someone kinda fixed it, but now Secret Rings and Black Knight are gone. Can someone put 'em back? Dungeonman262 ( talk) 03:41, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
I agree about Secret Rings and Black Knight - I don't know why they have their own section. If you're going to give them their own section, there's no reason why you shouldn't give Adventure, Advance, Rush, Rival, Riders and any other games with a direct sequel their own section too, and that would make the whole layout (and the debate, which is far more serious than it should be for a list of games) far too complex.
Mind you, I think the whole " criteria for main series" malarkey is rubbish, so this will probably be disregarded. Philtrauferson ( talk) 23:53, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
I just came an idea. The template has their year dates next to them, so why not just put them in the year they were released, with the year in parenthesis. and not like where each year has a section the template, with having released and cancelled since there wasn't a year for them. And how come Heroes and Advance 2 have 2 years? GENERALZERO ( talk) 00:34, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
Seriously, that shouldn't be there. If Sega Superstars Tennis can't be on here, neither should this game. 79.77.74.104 ( talk) 20:46, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
I noticed a lot of people were uneasy with the main series handhelds being put into a separate group, which is indeed OR, however it makes the table more organized to put them in a separate list, so therefore I suggest we do this:
Opinions? Perhaps that should also be done for the spin-offs as well. - MK ( t/ c) 02:14, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
[Since apparently it's protected from non-users.]
Someone put the Rivals games under handhelds. There's no reason it's in the console section. Also we need to add Sonic Jam, Sonic Gems Collection and Sonic Classics Collection under compilations. Lastly (and this is just opinion), wouldn't you consider Shadow and Sonic 06 spinoffs? 67.214.25.225 ( talk) 02:02, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
In response to something I've had to fix more than once, I shall issue a declaration: Do not add Sonic Jam to the compilations group unless you have recreated that article with such content that it will not be speedy deleted and the link in the template will remain relevant. Tezero ( talk) 01:26, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
Should we add a new group for the "original series"? That would be Sonic 1, Sonic 2, Sonic 3, Sonic & Knuckles and Sonic 4? If we were to do that, then we could rename the "main series" to something like the "modern series". This would make things more organised. --Josh ( Mephiles602) 21:10, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
I'm sure the Sonic Rivals games are more like spinoff games. Railer-man ( talk) 19:50, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
Agreed. They weren't even released in Japan. 208.101.147.253 ( talk) 16:23, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
Where do we put all of the 3D sonic games since Sonic 4 continues from Sonic and Knuckles? iluvthissite Iluvthissite ( talk) 16:45, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
Hello. I think that subgroups could be made for some of the Spin-offs games. Something like this:
Of course, if you have better suggestion or categorization than I, post it here. -- Explorer09 ( talk) 13:10, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
So I've noticed, Sonic Blast is classified differently between platforms. On handhelds, (labeled as "Blast" ) it's considered the "main series", while on consoles, it's considered a "spin-off" (labeled as "3D"). Is this right? I know they're different games, but I still think they should fall in either one or the other. Sergecross73 msg me 20:43, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
Not Protect See Ya!
Syberthrouth ( talk) 20:30, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
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I do not think that "Shadow the Hedgehog" should be included on this list as part of the main series of Sonic games. It does not follow the other characters or the main stories; it is and was always intended to be a spin-off. Does anyone agree with me?
Autobotprowl ( talk) 03:25, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
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Four♣← 07:13, 29 December 2010 (UTC)I agree with this, it seems silly that a game that doesn't involve playing as Sonic, would be part of a Sonic "main series". It seems like as much of a spin-off as Knuckles Chaotix. (Sonic characters w/o Sonic playable, gameplay mechanics not seen in other Sonic games, etc.) I'll wait to see more responses though before I make any changes... Sergecross73 msg me 20:58, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
This template is already huge. Do we really need to list some of these "related games", especially the ones that are unofficial hacks? I'd like to remove them. It's already crowded with just "real" Sonic games. Thoughts? Sergecross73 msg me 13:21, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
The Mario and Sonic series games are obviously sports games, and yet they have been put in the Party category. I would suggest putting them in a new "Sport" category, and then moving Sonic Shuffle to the "Other" category. Besides, Sonic Shuffle and the Mario and Sonic series aren't even one series. Thanks. Androids101 ( talk) 01:05, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
Pretty sure if Shadow has been demoted to spin-off, so should these. Neither have even vaguely traditional Sonic gameplay, nor does Sonic appear in them at all. Rivals is already in the spin-offs section so I don't think adding a couple more handheld ones would be that big a deal. 109.157.167.104 ( talk) 13:33, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
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Shadow the hedgehog (the video game) was released in 2005. This is not a spin off game, this game was part of the main console series. Shadow the hedgehog (video game) was relesed after "Sonic Heroes". Shadow the hedgehog explained the the story behind shadow, and even have some refrences to sonic heroes in it. this game was the next game in the main series. Even in Sonic the hedgehog "2006", the shadow story line is a continual story to shadow the hedgehog. the story line in sonic the hedgehog 2006 leads us to beleive that Shadow joined up with G.U.N ( Guardian Unit of Nations) after he leaves the past behind him. in Shadow's story line in Sonic the hedgehog 2006, it even explains of parts of shadow the hedgehog. my request is to remove shadow the hedgehog from a spin off series, and put it back to its rightful place in the main series. the gap between sonic heroes and sonic the hedgehog 2006 is about 3 years. its obvious shadow the hedgehog was made to fill the gap between them. it use to be places in the main series until someone edited it. 71.158.65.246 ( talk) 03:45, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
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Jnorton7558 (alt) (
talk) 13:23, 5 November 2011 (UTC)None of those things make it a "main series game". Whether or not it covers superficial story elements, the fact of the matter is, you can't play as Sonic, and it has non-conventional gameplay (for instance, gunplay). This makes it much more of a spinoff. Sergecross73 msg me 14:31, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
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In your list of Sonic Games, in the racing spin-off category, you forgot Sonic Drift Racing.
124.191.97.66 ( talk) 12:27, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
Shadow the Hedgehog(2005) should be in the Main Series. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.163.17.131 ( talk) 14:53, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
There are an endless list of Sonic compilations in existence. Rather than listing them all out, I think we should just list to the "List of Sonic Compilations" article (technically already linked, in the word "Compilation") to the "related articles", and then remove all of the links that go directly to compilations. So basically, one link to the article that lists them all, instead the 5 or so that are there now. To make it a little less cluttered, there are so many titles on there as it is...Thoughts? Sergecross73 msg me 19:13, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
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Shouldn't the game.com version of Sonic Jam be listed among the handheld Sonic platformers? It'd chronologically go between Sonic Blast and Sonic Pocket Adventure.
174.5.213.39 ( talk) 16:25, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
This is a new arcade game if anyone wants to add it. There is no information on it yet.
And by the way, if it has Shadow in it, it does not automatically make it a main game. Put it in the arcade section where it belongs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.162.43.210 ( talk) 18:59, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
Where is this Game Gear Videogame???? It must apear in Handheld games section -- 83.37.32.227 ( talk) 10:33, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
I was wondering the same thing. -- 189.129.144.146 ( talk) 02:01, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
This game shouldn't be include in the main series as it is a spin-off, this would be like adding Knuckles Chaotix to the main series list.
Why has this been readded and the page put on protection without mention? Either put Chaotix on the list as well or remove Shadow the Hedgehog.
Shadow passes the revised inclusion criteria as it ties in with the main games and includes running and jumping. It just adds another mechanic to the basic one. Hello 21 12 20:00, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
Why isn't Chaotix also included then? It follows the same basic gameplay and while it does feature a different gimmic(elastic rings), it's no different than Shadow's use of weapons. Also in the manuel it ties into the story as well. Though I'm still sure Shadow is a spinoff and should be included as a spinoff game as it does not continue the main series. Sonic not being the main character being the obvious factor. Also the criteria mentions "odd gameplay" as games not in the main series, which Shadow the Hedgehog has, meaning it does not pass.
It appears fixed now anyway, and if the new one explains that then it's clearly wrong. Shadow the Hedgehog is an obvious spin-off and only obsessed fans can't see past that. There are even interviews that state that Sonic Team has always wanted to make a game for Shadow and maybe even create a spin-off series for it. Chaotix does have the same basic gameplay as 2D Sonic games, the altered ring system isn't significant at all and is no different than being able to preform magical powers and driving motorcycles with shotguns.
Why did someone put Shadow the Hedgehog under a spin-off title? When it clearly isn't. And I'm not an obsessive fanboy. It is part of the main series as it LINKS Sonic Adventure 2, Sonic Heroes, and Sonic 06 together. It has the same basic gameplay as previous Sonic games. ( Running fast, going off speed ramps, get to goal ring, event scenes, and includes the ENTIRE Sonic cast as part of the main story. All it did was add in a few gameplay changes. Hell, It's like calling Sonic Heroes a spin-off because it used team based gameplay instead of solo gameplay. I don't approve of this change, and so I fixed the issue. Sonic Riders I can understand, as the story doesn't link to any of the previous games, and it has completely different gameplay. Takashi Iizuka may have said that he wanted to create a spin-off series for Shadow, but if you read his quote carefully, he said a spin-off series in the possible future. He didn't say that this game was a direct spin-off, when it was obvious a large portion of Team Darks story in Heroes was set up for Shadow's game. Also, in Sonic 06, Shadow joins GUN, after he settles his issues with them in his own game, he actually works for them now.......so yeah, the main series sonic games are linked to this one. -- S200048 ( talk) 02:36, 7 March 2008 (UTC)s200048
From the above discussions, I have drawn up an inclusion criteria that is based on a games' merit which goes out of the way to avoid personal bias:
In times past the Sonic game templates were subject to edit wars over different points of view. The following criteria is a set of principles to guide inclusion of games in a particular navigational template, and is considered a standard that all editors should follow. However, it is not set in stone and should be treated with common sense and the occasional exception. When editing this page, please ensure that your revision reflects consensus. When in doubt, discuss first on the talk page.
A game can appear in {{
Sonic games}}
if and only if:
Failing any of the above:
1a. | Success is evaluated on a game-by-game basis, not by influence in fan works. Suggested evaluation methods: GameRankings, MobyGames, amount of press coverage, sales, etc. |
1b. | A main-series game has significant page history at Sonic the Hedgehog (series)#TIMELINE. Note that not all such games are suitable here. |
1c. | Games must satisfy both criteria 1a and 1b. |
2. | This is the criteria the main article uses. |
3. | The game is built around the usual running and jumping. For example, this would include Shadow the Hedgehog, but it would not include Sonic Riders. |
4. | Use common sense when choosing between handheld and spin offs. A good suggestion is that a handheld game is a handheld 2D platformer that does not meet the above criteria. |
The purpose of this inclusion criteria is decide what is included in {{ Sonic games}}, not where it goes if it is unsuitable for this template. However, as rule, the GameGear series and other GameBoy games are generally placed in {{ Sonic games (handheld)}}, provided their gameplay and reception doesn't make them nothing more that a spin off. Under the above criteria, Sonic Riders is a spin off, with Sonic Battle being a spin off whose handheld platform being the only thing keeping it out of {{ Sonic games (spin off)}}. On the other hand, Sonic Pinball Party is not in {{ Sonic games (handheld)}} because it is not a platformer.
Barring no objections, I propose we transclude the above on all Sonic template pages via something like <noinclude>{{Sonic games/doc}}</noinclude> — davidh. oz. au 09:37, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
i'm willing to support this, it seems fair. El cid the hero 11:41, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
Stop. Adding. Secret. Rings. To. The. Template. It has been determined as having odd gameplay, meaning that it is in the spin-offs template. Hello 21 12 01:12, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
It's pretty obvious that Secret Rings IS part of the main series. There is absolutely NO evidence to disprove it. Oh, the gameplay's different. So? Sonic Adventure's gameplay was radically different from the 2D Sonic games. Does that make it a spinoff too? Oh, and the story's different? Every single 3D Sonic story has been different, in case you haven't noticed. It IS part of the main series. 207.224.61.246 18:23, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
per Supermorff's suggestions:
In times past the Sonic game templates were subject to edit wars over different points of view. The following criteria is a set of principles to guide inclusion of games in a particular navigational template, and is considered a standard that all editors should follow. However, it is not set in stone and should be treated with common sense and the occasional exception. When editing this page, please ensure that your revision reflects consensus. When in doubt, discuss first on the talk page.
The purpose of this inclusion criteria is to decide what is included in {{
Sonic games}} and where a game goes if it is unsuitable for the main template. Successful main series games usually appear in the main template, while the GameGear series and all other GameBoy games are generally placed in {{
Sonic games (handheld)}}. All other games that were somehow lacking in either story, gameplay, reception or platform would be spin offs. However, this guide was not designed to go into detail about how a spin off is different from a handhand game. When in doubt, don't move it.
A game can appear in {{ Sonic games}} if and only if:
Failing any of the above, said game can appear in {{ Sonic games (handheld)}} if:
A game can appear in {{ Sonic games (spin off)}} if the above criteria fails to find a suitable place.
1a. | Success is evaluated on a game-by-game basis, not by influence in fan works. Suggested evaluation methods: GameRankings, MobyGames, amount of press coverage, sales, etc. |
1b. | A main-series game has significant page history at Sonic the Hedgehog (series)#TIMELINE. Note that not all such games are suitable for {{ Sonic games}}. |
1c. | Games must satisfy both criteria 1a and 1b. |
2. | This is the criteria the main article uses. |
3. | The game is built around the usual running and jumping. For example, this would include Shadow the Hedgehog, but it would not include Sonic Riders. |
The first five conditions are used to eliminate games from the template, and the last two are used to decide where to place these "eliminated" items. If the first five conditions are met, it is not necessary to consider the remainder of the criteria.
The foremost example of using this criteria is the inclusion of the Sonic Advance series and Sonic Rush in the main template. GameRankings confirms that they sold well and the linked reviews indicate that they are some of the better Sonic games out there (1a), and casual inspection of the main article confirms that they are part of the main series (1b). The other four criteria are more directly verified. Each game has a linked story (2), are platformers (3), Sonic is the main character (4), and they do not contradict each other (5). Sonic Rush and the Sonic Advance series belong in the main template because the first five conditions have been satisfied.
A trivial example of how this inclusion criteria works would be demonstrating that Sonic Riders is a spin off because it fails criterion 3 (gameplay) in the first group and 7 (not a handheld game) in the second group. Another example is Sonic Battle which satisfies all criteria in the first group except for criteria 3 (it is a fighting game), and so it is a handheld game because it satisfies criterion 6 in the second group. In an even more bizarre case, Knuckles' Chaotix would be a spinoff because it features an altered ring system. On the other hand, Sonic Pinball Party is not in {{ Sonic games (handheld)}} because it fails criteria 3 and 7 (not a platformer).
Every single attempt by Wikipedians to classify articles with endless sets of "inclusion criteria" has long since proven to be nothing more than an exercise in frustration. There will always be occasions when an article will not fall neatly into one single niche, and these articles tend to make rules like this worthless. When implementing this inclusion criteria, please remember to use common sense and consider that perhaps the most useful piece of information on this page might not be the inclusion criteria but the introductory message.
Revised in an attempt to more fully encompass the other templates. — davidh. oz. au 08:17, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
Note: the above comments were made before the following edits was made to the section under discussion:
diff reword of lead paragraph and added another paragraph to "using this criteria" —
davidh.
oz.
au 02:03, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
diff fixed some small typing errors. —
davidh.
oz.
au 12:50, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
Well, a template is good in theory, but I'm of the idea that it just isn't necessary. Rather than enter never ending debates over what game should go where (like Secret Rings for example), and IMO, pointlessly separating off games by common features, why don't we just have a link to the list of Sonic games or something? Hell, I'd even make a disambiguation page of sorts and that lists links to each game article with the only distinction being the year released. I'd actually do something similar with the characters. In fact, a link to the Sonic Characters category is more than sufficient for that as it's already separated by the first letter of the name. (Not to mention the game character template is embarrassingly small anyways.)
Comments? GrandMasterGalvatron 03:56, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
That does indeed sound like a good idea, there are many people who will consider Shadow the Hedgehog as being part of the main series, and many who won't, as well as many who won't include Sonic and the Secret Rings as a main game whilst others won't. Creating a list of Sonic games and released in which year and what not sounds more organized and accessable to me as well.
A list lacks the usability and simplicity of a template. Templates are designed to allow quick navigation to strongly related subjects. Having a list would defeat that purpose. El cid the hero 15:31, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
After one and half months of discussion, the inclusion criteria has now gone live! I hope you all enjoyed the process and I hope everyone present has gained an insight into the way wikipedia makes guidelines. As always, if anyone has any questions feel free to ask, or just go ahead and edit the new template documentation. — davidh. oz. au 05:03, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
I think this game should be in this template. It's the sequel to Sonic Rush, after all, which considered to be a main series game now. But then again, the game hasn't come out yet... 206.66.217.144 19:30, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
Sonics rush is not considered a main series installment, because Blaze the cat is different in that game than in Sonicthe Hedgehog (2006), and speaking of which, Sonic the Hedgehog shouldn't be listed as a main series installment, on account the events of that game never happened, I personally think that Sonic Battle and Sonic Rivals should be listed as main series instead. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.244.187.115 ( talk) 23:04, 28 April 2007 (UTC).
Super Mario Bros. 2 is a dream and it is considered in the main series of Super Mario, why Sonic the Hedgehog 2006 shouldn't be considered in the main series of Sonic (Don't go delete Super Mario Bros. 2 in the Mario template). And because the events of this game was erased from history, the lives of Blaze and Silver in the future might be heavily modified, then Blaze can now be a princess who defends the Sol Emeralds. Sonic Rush is in that way a main series installment. Also, I think Sonic and the Secret Rings can be in the main series, magical objects are common in the series, why the arabian nights book can't be one of these magical objects. The story of that Sonic game is considered canon in that way and the game is a platformer, different from the others, but it is a platformer. Shadow the Hedgehog isn't a main series installment, I had a lot of trouble to explain that before, but all the previous discussions were deleted. Again with a comparison with Mario, putting Shadow the Hedgehog in the main series is completely like putting Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island in the Mario main series, it can't be there because the main character isn't Sonic/Mario, but Shadow/Yoshi. And I think these games are also main series installments : Sonic the Hedgehog (8-bits), Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (8-bits), Sonic the Hedgehog Chaos, Sonic the Hedgehog Triple Trouble, Sonic Blast, Sonic the Hedgehog: Pocket Adventure, Sonic Advance, Sonic Advance 2, Sonic Advance 3 and Sonic Rivals (not Sonic Battle). DjinnFighter 21:22, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
Sheesh, this has been discussed before. Read the previous sections where the reasons why we made the changes, both here and in the archive. We were getting tired of the edits wars and decided to do something about it. Just follow the agreed-upon documentation. — davidh. oz. au 05:15, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
You are right about sonic 2006 being a main series and sonic Battle not being main series, but neither Sonic Rush or Sonic Rivals can be classed as main series. See the Eggman Nega article and read "story confusion" section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.244.42.165 ( talk) 23:17, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
Shouldn't it be like SONIC savong the planet eg.Sonic & Knuckles had Sonic stopping Egghead yadayadayada you know what I mean.Like that.And I agree with DjinnFighter. 121.210.96.191 ( talk) 08:55, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
Does this game make any direct reference to other main series games? Because if it doesn't, I don't think it should be in the main series template. The game does fit the criteria in the sense that it is a successful game with Sonic in it and the gameplay is the typical running and jumping, but I don't think game makes any direct reference to other main series games. I haven't played this game, so I can't say for sure that it doesn't make a reference. Can someone provide an example of a direct reference in the game? 206.66.217.142 17:03, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
The game is, in essence, a mainstream Sonic game (it is a single player platformer with Sonic as the main playable character). While it does not explicitly reference past Sonic games (like most of the other games, however), and the storyline is slightly different (ie: this time, Eggman is not the main villain...), some references are made in the game, as for example when Sonic meets Sinbad, he mistakes him for Knuckles, which shows he already met him, thus referencing previous Sonic games. Therefore, the game should be listed as a main Sonic game, where it belongs. If Sonic & the Secret Rings is not listed as a mainstream Sonic game, then Shadow the Hedgehog should not either, as the storyline is also different and moreover it does not feature Sonic as the main playable character (some might even say it has an "odd gameplay" and that the title of the game does not even include the word "Sonic", but I do not want to argue about this). While the storyline of Sonic & the Secret Rings is a spin-off from the main series storyline (yet the same could be said about Shadow the Hedgehog), the game itself is a traditional Sonic game, light years away from say Sonic R or Sonic Fighters, which are not even platformers. That being said, I recommend you play and enjoy this wonderful game and consider my suggestion. -87.231.185.217- around 15:00 UTC, 22 June 2007
I think the criteria doesn't work. And Sonic does not have "odd gameplay" because it is a platformer. Willy105 17:55, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
I suggest the game should be kept in the main series template, as there is no consensus it is a spin-off game. Moreover, I would like GrandMasterGalvatron to explain which criteria the game fails. -87.231.185.217- 13:00, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
I think this entire debate can be summed up like this... "it's a Wii game, too different and it confuses and angers me GRAAAAH!!!" 208.101.138.65 21:30, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
I'm willing to put it either place. As far as I'm concerned, just because it's a spin-off, it does not make it not canon. Does it mean it's a main series game? No. But is it canon. Only the future will tell. If a cnon game in 2011 references this game, then it's on. There's really no proof either way. Sabre Knight 13:17, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
You can't have Sonic Advance 3 without Sonic Battle, that's impossible because of the Gizoid. 208.101.130.232 13:09, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
Another example is Sonic Battle which satisfies all criteria in the first group except for criteria 3 (it is a fighting game), and so it is a handheld game because it satisfies criterion 6 in the second group.
I think that the one determining factor for placing any game in the Main Series template is if Sonic is the undisputed main character of the game. I.E., Sonic Battle, as enjoyable and Sonic-focused as it is, should not be placed in this category as Emerl takes the place of the lead role. The same should go for Shadow the Hedgehog; Sonic is not the main character, therefore the game is not in the main canon. However, does anyone think the status of Main Game should also be determined by the storyline events?
SaviorOfImagination 20:23, 28 June (UTC)
I argue with that. Mainly, because "Shadow the Hedgehog" is on there. I think I've made my point. DarknessLord 12:48, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
Note: See my point above. Sabre Knight 13:18, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi The Sonic RPG article has been created, but I'm not sure which Sonic templates it fits into. There seems to be pretty strict rules regarding what fits where. Opinions?
The article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_rpg
Philtrauferson 21:11, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
Sonic chaos Sonic triple trouble Sonic blast and 3D blast should be here and Secret rings is not canon because Tails Knuckles and Eggman do not remember him and Sonic riders is canon. Sonic 3 & Knuckles should be in the template somewhere too.
Heh, I really should pay more attention to what's happening on the wiki. Since the timeline was been deleted the main article months ago, I think the inclusion criteria should go to since it was just to get us past a rough patch. — davidh. oz. au 14:14, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
Canned. — davidh. oz. au 12:39, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
Shouldn't this be included here? And while I think about it, this should be merged with the handheld section. Aside from the system there's no difference. - 82.42.162.112 11:26, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
No it shouldn't for both of your suggestions. There is nothing to suggest that Sonic 3D ever was canon, which is what this template is for. And handheld =/= canon, for most of the games in that template at least. So no. Hello 21 12 19:27, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
Wow! That's EXACTLY why Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine is here, even after being completely ignored on multiple official websites! BRILLIANT!!!
... Honestly. 208.101.140.232 16:42, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
When'd this template get merged with the other three back into the metatemplate? Hello 21 12 18:25, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
I've notice that Super Smash Bros. Brawl keeps on being added to to the spinoff part and removed it, then put a note. Just to want to note Super Smash Bros. Brawl does belong there, because it is not a Sonic-spinoff game. It's the same reason why we don't add the game to every other series templates whose characters are in Brawl. It would like add SSBB to Metal Gear series template. Magiciandude ( talk) 02:13, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
I don't know who keeps adding it and I agree that it's not part of the sonic series but it's still worth mentioning. Would it be acceptable to make a section for "related games" because there are several games where sonic is the star but they are not strictly part of the sonic series. e.g. Sega superstars and sega superstars tennis. 81.98.227.168 ( talk) 16:26, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
Just a few points I'd like to make:
I just notice,like,half the template is gone. WTF? I don't know how to revert back to the last change, so... —Preceding unsigned comment added by GENERALZERO ( talk • contribs) 03:28, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
The instructions section says:
But in fact, Advance and Rush are listed under "Handhelds". So either the instructions or the template should be changed... Ben Standeven ( talk) 02:41, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
These lines:
[[fr:Modèle:Sonic]]
[[ja:Template:ソニックシリーズ]]
[[simple:Template:SonicGames]]
[[th:โซนิคแอดเวนเจอร์]]
should be put into <noinclude>
. And that simple-thing should be removed, since it doesn't exist (anymore?)...
194.105.96.202 (
talk) 14:46, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
After reading discussion above, how about we do the same type of thing with the Sonic Compilations template and make handheld, Main series, and Spinoffs different templates instead? It takes off a lot of controversy and confusion. -- Hasek is the best ( talk) 01:00, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
I like this new template, but I think it needs some minor changes. -Merge the main series sections togeather (I can see seperating the 2D from 3D, but come on, it's main series or it isn't) -Move the Spin-off section between the Sonic Riders section and Edutainment section (personally, I believe the Edutainment games should be considered spins-offs, but I can see why they're seperated)
But what does anyone else think? LightningLuigi ( talk) 02:06, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
Cannon: Sonic 1, 2, 3, etc.
NonCannon: Shuffle, Drift, Fighters, etc.
Skeletal S.L.J.C.O.A.A.A.T.R. 21:45, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
I've been thinking about it, and there may be a way to orginize each game into it's respective series while reducing the number of sub-templates. What does everyone think about this layout:
Main Series (Console): Sonic the Hedgehog (1991) • Sonic 2 • Sonic 3 • Sonic & Knuckles • Sonic Adventure • Sonic Adventure 2 • Sonic Heros • Shadow the Hedgehog • Sonic the Hedgehog (2006) • Sonic Unleashed
Main Series (Handheld): Sonic the Hedgehog • Sonic 2 • Sonic Chaos • Sonic Triple Trouble • Sonic Blast • Sonic Labyrinth • Sonic Pocket Adventure • Sonic Battle • Sonic Advance • 2 • 3 • Sonic Rush • Sonic Rush Adventure • Sonic Rivals • 2 • Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood
Spin-offs: Sonic Eraser • Waku Waku Sonic Patrol Car • SegaSonic the Hedgehog • SegaSonic Cosmo Fighter • Sonic Spinball • Sonic Drift • 2 • Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine • Sonic Gameworld • Wacky Worlds Creativity Studio • Tails and the Music Maker • Tails' Skypatrol • Tails Adventure • Knuckles' Chaotix • Sonic the Fighters • Sonic 3D • Sonic R • Sonic's Schoolhouse • Sonic Shuffle • Sonic Pinball Party • Sonic Riders • Zero Gravity • Sonic and the Secret Rings • Sonic and the Black Knight • Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games
Some edits may be nessacary, but I believe this template design could work very well. What does everyone else think? LightningLuigi ( talk) 03:30, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
Fair enough, how does it look now? LightningLuigi ( talk) 16:13, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
I think that I ma have missed a few games though... Skeletal S.L.J.C.O.A.A.A.T.R. 18:06, 24 July 2008 (UTC) I hadn't actually edited the template yet, I edited my sample template above. I was waiting for someone's approval.
Anyway, your template was slightly inaccurate, so I edited it. The main flaws were in the Home Console Spin-off section, where many of the games in that category were actually handheld (though some had console ports, the main system was handheld, as the console versions were not released in as many regions as the handheld versions). I also edited the order of some of the games to be cronological and added Sonic Chaos, Triple Trouble, and Blast to the Handheld Main Series, under the basis that they are Sonic platform games simular in design to both the console games and other main series handheld games.
If you (or anyone) would like to change the template, I ask that it is discussed here first so it don't lead to an edit war (I myself admit I should have posted first before making my edits, and I apologize). —Preceding unsigned comment added by LightningLuigi ( talk • contribs) 22:38, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
I prefered the template before the current one, it seemed more organised, this seems a little cluttered. -[The-DC]- ( talk) 07:59, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
I shall be adding the Mobile Sonic games to the template, though, I believe none have articles, so this may be pointless. As to DC, the previous version was just thrown about be sequals, it's alot neater now, and organises games by their cannonicty, which is much more encyclopedic. Skeletal S.L.J.C.O.A.A.A.T.R. 03:54, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
Sega has announced that Black Knight is a sequel to Secret Rings and part of the "Storybook series". Should we add a new part to the template with Secret Rings and Black Knight? Willy105 ( talk) 14:01, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
I've never played the game personally, but apprantly its a spin-off of Sonic Advance, so should it be included as part of the Sonic Advance series? -[The-DC]- ( talk) 11:16, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
It's organized entirely by Generation, but you can still see which games are in the main series. (They're bold)
It's ok but looks kind of unorganized still. I prefered the one above but here I made some changes to it:
And I'd hate to see Sonic 3D in Spinoffs since
Why was it just removed from the main series? Because it's an RPG? It's a valid game just like Sonic Battle, so there should be no excuses. And "keep dreaming buddy" is hardly a worthy reason to kick it off. 71.224.116.166 ( talk) 04:10, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
Okay, for one thing, it follows up after Sonic Battle and Sonic Advance 3, which is part of the main series. It'll have Gizoids in it. Second, the consensus reached above (see Sonic RPG) was to consider it a main series game. 208.101.164.253 ( talk) 13:52, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
http://www.sega.com/sonicchronicles/us/images/subNavThumb_gizoids.png —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.101.130.208 ( talk) 23:43, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
Look, I understand now that I might have stepped into the middle of an ongoing flame/edit-war, but that's still no reason for ANYBODY to say stuff like this! The game I added ( Sonic: The Fated Hour) is marked with a SonicGames-tag. And the template is called "Sonic the Hedgehog video games", not "Important Sonic Games". Also, the template already was on the game's page. So I came to the conclusion it was a mistake/inconsistency, and it should be added to the template. Which is what I did. I'm (now) very sorry that I didn't consult anybody else before doing it, but I cannot see any reason for such a response. SLJCOAAATR 1, if you can't just tell some new guy he did something wrong in a normal fasion, then don't say/edit anything at all. -- DanielPharos ( talk) 20:28, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
Reason 1: Putting Sonic '06 in the spin-off section. First, the game's events end up being erased from history, and all that canonically happens is Sonic visiting Elise's parade. For much better proof that it is a spin-off, there is an article that states Sonic Team cuts ties with Sonic '06 right here: http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=186523 . Lastly, this game contradicts the earlier Sonic games A LOT, such as when Silver gives Elise the blue chaos emerald ten years before the present, wiping out every main series Sonic game except Sonic 1 (1991), because that game only featured six Chaos Emeralds. Now, who agrees that Sonic '06 should be moved to the Home console Spin-off section, and who disagrees? Majority and common sense will rule whether or not it is changed. Please respond with your opinion! Usernamesarekewl ( talk) 19:19, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
Uh... so we have two for main series, do we have anyone for spin-off? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.201.26.20 ( talk) 21:20, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
Please tell me where your proof is. A link? An article? Please show me and I'll agree with you. 72.201.26.20 ( talk) 21:29, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
Also please tell me an example where it connects with other games. 72.201.26.20 ( talk) 21:29, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
I looked at all the references, which article states that it's a main series game? And how do you explain the Blaze dilemma. I'm not trying to say it's not a main series game anymore, I'm just curious. :) Usernamesarekewl ( talk) 21:44, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
As for Blaze, remember when she locked herself & Iblis into another dimension? For whatever reason, erasing Solaris didn't bring Blaze back. Time moves differently on this alternate dimension (Like in Sonic X S3) ,so when Sonic went to that dimension, and vice-versa, they were on a similar timeline. Skeletal S.L.J.C.O.A.A.A.T.R. 23:29, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
Ohhhh, ok thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.201.26.20 ( talk) 00:00, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
What about the Sonic Rush-Sonic Rivals dilemma... I don't get it- is Eggman Nega Eggman's other-dimensional counterpart or his descendant? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.201.26.20 ( talk) 04:47, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
Simple. Sonic Rivals doesn't count, so Eggman Nega is Eggman's dimensional counterpart. It wasn't even released in Japan, and we know that the Japanese continuity is the one in which the series is supported on. I say we move Rivals to spinoffs. I'd also move Sonic 2006 to spinoffs since Sega's going to be ignoring it, but I'll leave that one open for more debate.
I will say this, though - Sega has not released an official explanation about how Blaze was in the future in Sonic 2006 even though it's established that her home is in another universe. No, the dimension thing doesn't count, since 1) that doesn't explain how she's been royalty, and 2) you've think Sonic would recognize her in Sonic 2006 or that Blaze would retain some memory of Sonic 2006 (depending on which you think occurs first). Going around these two holes is just assuming things. The fact of the matter is, these games were developed independent of each other. I, for one, think it's obvious that Sonic 2006 / Rivals and Rush occur in separate continuities. 208.101.130.208 ( talk) 17:39, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
They definitely seem like alternate continuity games. In fact, the Japanese manual of Sonic & Tails 2 implies that this was Sonic's first meeting with Knuckles. This alone should indicate that they don't occur in the main series. Quittaboi ( talk) 17:48, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
After extensive reasearch, I have decided these things:
Sonic '06 and the Sonic Rivals series are NOT canon to the main series. There is NO way Rush, Rivals, and '06 can exist in the same continuity! And the Rush series is definetely canon.
None of the Sonic Game Gear games are canon to the main series. There is an interview here:
... that states that Yuji Naka didn't even know some of the Game Gear games existed! Plus, they contradict most other games that are definetely canon (especially Sonic Triple Trouble) and so they shouldn't be canon to the main series. Lastly...
Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood should be canon! It deals VERY explicitly with previous definite canon Sonic games (especially the Adventure series, Sonic Advance 3 and Sonic Battle) and it even continues the stories of these games! Bioware even stated that they were going to fix up plotholes left from other games.
But every time I change something, Skeletal yells at and insults me and immediately changes it back! Who else is tired of this? And who else agrees with me? Somebody brave stand up! The template should be changed to the way it should be! I know from other discussion topics that many ppl agree with me! Thanks for readin' this. Usernamesarekewl ( talk) 23:04, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
This is what I'm talking about. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.201.26.20 ( talk) 22:38, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
Come on, guys. We all know fansites are total liars that don't specialize in Sonic the Hedgehog, especially when they go ahead and source themselves. Oh look, we have to grab our information from Sega's official (product) website! Hmm, looks like they don't have an interviews section. Therefore, your interview is null and void, it never existed and I can keep enforcing whatever I believe. </sarcasm>
But seriously, Wikipedia's game-related information as of late has taken a downward spiral. It used to be somewhat flexible, but now you've got the "crusaders" running around like lawyers trying to make things as straightforward as possible. That's probably why some fans created special wikis of their series, so no one else can bastardize them. 208.101.159.251 ( talk) 18:20, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
After searching for some of the older system roms online, I found a good chunk of games that were missing from this list... Sonic Pinball Party for GBA is a good example; if Sonic Spinball would be considered a Console Spinoff, wouldn't Pinball Party be listed under Handheld Spinoffs?
The other games I found not listed here were compilations. I had to do a wiki search for Sonic Jam to find if it even had an article, and the group listed on the article was compilations. I figured it would be easier to add the comp. group to this list instead of adding the game list to all of the comp. games' articles in addition to the lists they already had.
I apologize if this angers anyone in the discussion; I only read through about half of the comments here, and although I respect the rules listed, I find that it defeats the purpose of Wiki's Encyclopedic layout not to give as much information as possible in the clearest and most concise way possible -- adding this section to the list not only keeps wiki pros from having to search for the games' articles, but also gives newcomers easy access to information for games they otherwise may not have known existed. Irontobias ( talk) 20:37, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
Skeletal SLJCOAAATR Soulsor 18:21, 28 September 2008 (UTC)== Chronicles ==
...should be considered for main series. :D -[The-DC]- ( talk) 17:20, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
I don't think Sonic the Hedgehog CD should be included into the main series because it isn't on a "main" Sega console. The Sega CD was a spin-off of the Genesis, and therefore Sonic CD should be considered a spin-off of the main Sonic series.
In addition, the main page for the Sonic series clearly states:
"The original four main Sonic titles for the Mega Drive/Genesis, released between 1991 and 1994, were:
* Sonic the Hedgehog
* Sonic 2
* Sonic 3
* Sonic & Knuckles"
Sonic CD is not mentioned.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by AnAlbinoRhino ( talk • contribs) 01:12, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
Well first of all the entire Wikipedia site should be consistent. You can't have the main page for the Sonic series leave Sonic CD out, then have the template at the bottom include it.
In any case, I read that article, but it doesn't really matter if Sonic CD was at one point Sonic 2. This is similar to how Resident Evil Code: Veronica was initially planned to be Resident Evil 3 (although this isn't the best example because Code: Veronica is considered a main Resident Evil series entry, but you get my point). It doesn't matter that Sonic CD was at one point Sonic 2 because in the end it didn't end up that way. —Preceding unsigned comment added by AnAlbinoRhino ( talk • contribs) 19:31, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
Where is that from? I was just wondering if SEGA decided that or we did. Fairfieldfencer FFF 10:29, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
I've made a shortened version of this template. May I put this to the template page?
Explorer09 ( talk) 04:21, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
A much shorter version:
Explorer09 ( talk) 04:43, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
Proof here: http://www.totalvideogames.com/Shadow-the-Hedgehog/news/SEGA-Announce-Shadow-the-Hedgehog-7102.html
Why isn't this game a main series? It introduces new charcters to the series and has some influence on Sonic Heroes (greatly), Sonic Advance 3, and Shadow the Hedgehog. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.3.8.8 ( talk) 19:16, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
For some reason, Sonic Adventure, Sonic Adventure 2 and Sonic Unleashed have been removed from the main series. They are indeed in the main series. The first two offer most of the main series plots later on (Chaos data absorbed by Metal Sonic, the E-Series, Big, Shadow, Rouge, the ARK), and they offer the same gameplay as later games (Heroes, Shadow, etc.), so why do they now have their own section?
Also, Secret Rings/Black Knight should not have their own section. They should be with the rest of the spinoffs, really. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.227.210.12 ( talk) 00:33, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
O.K., someone kinda fixed it, but now Secret Rings and Black Knight are gone. Can someone put 'em back? Dungeonman262 ( talk) 03:41, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
I agree about Secret Rings and Black Knight - I don't know why they have their own section. If you're going to give them their own section, there's no reason why you shouldn't give Adventure, Advance, Rush, Rival, Riders and any other games with a direct sequel their own section too, and that would make the whole layout (and the debate, which is far more serious than it should be for a list of games) far too complex.
Mind you, I think the whole " criteria for main series" malarkey is rubbish, so this will probably be disregarded. Philtrauferson ( talk) 23:53, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
I just came an idea. The template has their year dates next to them, so why not just put them in the year they were released, with the year in parenthesis. and not like where each year has a section the template, with having released and cancelled since there wasn't a year for them. And how come Heroes and Advance 2 have 2 years? GENERALZERO ( talk) 00:34, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
Seriously, that shouldn't be there. If Sega Superstars Tennis can't be on here, neither should this game. 79.77.74.104 ( talk) 20:46, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
I noticed a lot of people were uneasy with the main series handhelds being put into a separate group, which is indeed OR, however it makes the table more organized to put them in a separate list, so therefore I suggest we do this:
Opinions? Perhaps that should also be done for the spin-offs as well. - MK ( t/ c) 02:14, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
[Since apparently it's protected from non-users.]
Someone put the Rivals games under handhelds. There's no reason it's in the console section. Also we need to add Sonic Jam, Sonic Gems Collection and Sonic Classics Collection under compilations. Lastly (and this is just opinion), wouldn't you consider Shadow and Sonic 06 spinoffs? 67.214.25.225 ( talk) 02:02, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
In response to something I've had to fix more than once, I shall issue a declaration: Do not add Sonic Jam to the compilations group unless you have recreated that article with such content that it will not be speedy deleted and the link in the template will remain relevant. Tezero ( talk) 01:26, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
Should we add a new group for the "original series"? That would be Sonic 1, Sonic 2, Sonic 3, Sonic & Knuckles and Sonic 4? If we were to do that, then we could rename the "main series" to something like the "modern series". This would make things more organised. --Josh ( Mephiles602) 21:10, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
I'm sure the Sonic Rivals games are more like spinoff games. Railer-man ( talk) 19:50, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
Agreed. They weren't even released in Japan. 208.101.147.253 ( talk) 16:23, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
Where do we put all of the 3D sonic games since Sonic 4 continues from Sonic and Knuckles? iluvthissite Iluvthissite ( talk) 16:45, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
Hello. I think that subgroups could be made for some of the Spin-offs games. Something like this:
Of course, if you have better suggestion or categorization than I, post it here. -- Explorer09 ( talk) 13:10, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
So I've noticed, Sonic Blast is classified differently between platforms. On handhelds, (labeled as "Blast" ) it's considered the "main series", while on consoles, it's considered a "spin-off" (labeled as "3D"). Is this right? I know they're different games, but I still think they should fall in either one or the other. Sergecross73 msg me 20:43, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
Not Protect See Ya!
Syberthrouth ( talk) 20:30, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
{{edit semi-protected}}
I do not think that "Shadow the Hedgehog" should be included on this list as part of the main series of Sonic games. It does not follow the other characters or the main stories; it is and was always intended to be a spin-off. Does anyone agree with me?
Autobotprowl ( talk) 03:25, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
{{
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template. →♠
Gƒoley↔
Four♣← 07:13, 29 December 2010 (UTC)I agree with this, it seems silly that a game that doesn't involve playing as Sonic, would be part of a Sonic "main series". It seems like as much of a spin-off as Knuckles Chaotix. (Sonic characters w/o Sonic playable, gameplay mechanics not seen in other Sonic games, etc.) I'll wait to see more responses though before I make any changes... Sergecross73 msg me 20:58, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
This template is already huge. Do we really need to list some of these "related games", especially the ones that are unofficial hacks? I'd like to remove them. It's already crowded with just "real" Sonic games. Thoughts? Sergecross73 msg me 13:21, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
The Mario and Sonic series games are obviously sports games, and yet they have been put in the Party category. I would suggest putting them in a new "Sport" category, and then moving Sonic Shuffle to the "Other" category. Besides, Sonic Shuffle and the Mario and Sonic series aren't even one series. Thanks. Androids101 ( talk) 01:05, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
Pretty sure if Shadow has been demoted to spin-off, so should these. Neither have even vaguely traditional Sonic gameplay, nor does Sonic appear in them at all. Rivals is already in the spin-offs section so I don't think adding a couple more handheld ones would be that big a deal. 109.157.167.104 ( talk) 13:33, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Shadow the hedgehog (the video game) was released in 2005. This is not a spin off game, this game was part of the main console series. Shadow the hedgehog (video game) was relesed after "Sonic Heroes". Shadow the hedgehog explained the the story behind shadow, and even have some refrences to sonic heroes in it. this game was the next game in the main series. Even in Sonic the hedgehog "2006", the shadow story line is a continual story to shadow the hedgehog. the story line in sonic the hedgehog 2006 leads us to beleive that Shadow joined up with G.U.N ( Guardian Unit of Nations) after he leaves the past behind him. in Shadow's story line in Sonic the hedgehog 2006, it even explains of parts of shadow the hedgehog. my request is to remove shadow the hedgehog from a spin off series, and put it back to its rightful place in the main series. the gap between sonic heroes and sonic the hedgehog 2006 is about 3 years. its obvious shadow the hedgehog was made to fill the gap between them. it use to be places in the main series until someone edited it. 71.158.65.246 ( talk) 03:45, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
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Jnorton7558 (alt) (
talk) 13:23, 5 November 2011 (UTC)None of those things make it a "main series game". Whether or not it covers superficial story elements, the fact of the matter is, you can't play as Sonic, and it has non-conventional gameplay (for instance, gunplay). This makes it much more of a spinoff. Sergecross73 msg me 14:31, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
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In your list of Sonic Games, in the racing spin-off category, you forgot Sonic Drift Racing.
124.191.97.66 ( talk) 12:27, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
Shadow the Hedgehog(2005) should be in the Main Series. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.163.17.131 ( talk) 14:53, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
There are an endless list of Sonic compilations in existence. Rather than listing them all out, I think we should just list to the "List of Sonic Compilations" article (technically already linked, in the word "Compilation") to the "related articles", and then remove all of the links that go directly to compilations. So basically, one link to the article that lists them all, instead the 5 or so that are there now. To make it a little less cluttered, there are so many titles on there as it is...Thoughts? Sergecross73 msg me 19:13, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
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Shouldn't the game.com version of Sonic Jam be listed among the handheld Sonic platformers? It'd chronologically go between Sonic Blast and Sonic Pocket Adventure.
174.5.213.39 ( talk) 16:25, 14 April 2012 (UTC)