Food and drink Template‑class | ||||||||||||||
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Fisheries and Fishing Template‑class | |||||||
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I added Paella, which is often considered kind of national dish of Spain, to this template. However this was reverted by User:Epipelagic who claims template is for broad categories of dishes only. However, it currently includes a number of specific dishes which may be popular in (some parts of) the USA, like Cioppino, Chowder, Fish and chips, but rather uncommon elsewhere in the world. It also includes the selectively chosen Bisque (food) and Shark fin soup which may have their own story but are definitely not broad categories.
On the other hand, from those included articles which are really broad categories like Fish soup etc. I was unable to find one which would include Paella. This would also hold for any fish salad like Dressed herring.
In contrast, the page Fish_(food) has a section Dishes which includes what different editors consider to be worth mentioning and this section tries to include a selection of most popular or interesting dishes from different cultures all over the world. -- Off-shell ( talk) 21:55, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
When writing about seafood dishes, there is bound to be bias towards the dishes of English speaking people since this the English wikipedia. I want to make some remarks about this "systemic bias" that may be viewed by some editors as wikipedically or politically incorrect. Let's take Korea as an example. Why would a Korean look up the English wikipedia for articles on Korean seafood when they have their own encyclopedia? And who else apart from Koreans are likely to want such articles? Conversely, as an English speaking person it would not occur to me to look up the Korean wikipedia for information on English seafood dishes. Surely details like this belong in the language versions where there is likely to be interest. If as an English speaking person, you want more details on Korean dishes, there is always the option to look at the Korean entries translated by Google.
In any case, it is going to be difficult for editors on the English wikipedia to write about all the different seafoood dishes in non English speaking countries. I don't think that is a practical option... it's just not going to happen. Personally, I don't know how to write about the seafood specialities of countries I know little about. The information may be in books written in other languages, but I comprehend very few languages. I wouldn't write the articles anyway, because I'm unlikely to encounter those dishes in my own life, and because hardly anyone else reading the English wikipedia will want to read them. There are so many more pressing articles waiting to be written. It's a matter of effectively using what knowledge resources we have for writing Wikipedia, and not squandering that energy trying attain some utopian but impractical balance across all countries.
If this quest for lack of "bias" is to be carried to its logical conclusion, then all the other language wikipedias must also include everything about seafood dishes from all round the work. The Koreans will have their own encyclopedia clogged with things like how New Zealanders source and cook their whitebait and fish and chips. That is a matter which might interest me, but would surely be of little interest to most Koreans. For me to demand that the Korean encyclopedia caters in this way to the interests of New Zealanders would be bordering on abuse. I imagine Koreans editors already have their work cut out trying to build their own language version, and would resent demands that they redirect their energies and write about what New Zealanders do with seafood.
That said, there are some seafood articles that should not show a systemic bias. Examples would be some of the overview articles, such as the main Seafood article itself, and most particularly the History of seafood article. I mostly wrote those articles, and I'm happy to cooperate with you and improve their balance. I think the best way to resolve the issue as far as seafood dishes go, would be write a few overview articles specifically on seafood dishes. For example, there is an article giving a global overview that is simply called Seafood dishes. However at the moment it is little more than a stub. Perhaps you would be willing to expand it so it meets your concern about inadequate coverage? In addition further articles could be written that that give regional overviews, such as Seafood dishes of Asia. -- Epipelagic ( talk) 22:03, 18 January 2014 (UTC)
I added some species to the list in this template, but most of them were deleted by User:Epipelagic claiming that this is only for widespread and highly commercial food fish. Now which criteria are applied to classify it as widespread and highly commercial? Just to illustrate:
I would say the role of these species as food is not smaller than say that of shark which is already included in the template. -- Off-shell ( talk) 22:30, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
-- Off-shell ( talk) 13:45, 18 January 2014 (UTC)
:::
Food and drink Template‑class | ||||||||||||||
|
Fisheries and Fishing Template‑class | |||||||
|
I added Paella, which is often considered kind of national dish of Spain, to this template. However this was reverted by User:Epipelagic who claims template is for broad categories of dishes only. However, it currently includes a number of specific dishes which may be popular in (some parts of) the USA, like Cioppino, Chowder, Fish and chips, but rather uncommon elsewhere in the world. It also includes the selectively chosen Bisque (food) and Shark fin soup which may have their own story but are definitely not broad categories.
On the other hand, from those included articles which are really broad categories like Fish soup etc. I was unable to find one which would include Paella. This would also hold for any fish salad like Dressed herring.
In contrast, the page Fish_(food) has a section Dishes which includes what different editors consider to be worth mentioning and this section tries to include a selection of most popular or interesting dishes from different cultures all over the world. -- Off-shell ( talk) 21:55, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
When writing about seafood dishes, there is bound to be bias towards the dishes of English speaking people since this the English wikipedia. I want to make some remarks about this "systemic bias" that may be viewed by some editors as wikipedically or politically incorrect. Let's take Korea as an example. Why would a Korean look up the English wikipedia for articles on Korean seafood when they have their own encyclopedia? And who else apart from Koreans are likely to want such articles? Conversely, as an English speaking person it would not occur to me to look up the Korean wikipedia for information on English seafood dishes. Surely details like this belong in the language versions where there is likely to be interest. If as an English speaking person, you want more details on Korean dishes, there is always the option to look at the Korean entries translated by Google.
In any case, it is going to be difficult for editors on the English wikipedia to write about all the different seafoood dishes in non English speaking countries. I don't think that is a practical option... it's just not going to happen. Personally, I don't know how to write about the seafood specialities of countries I know little about. The information may be in books written in other languages, but I comprehend very few languages. I wouldn't write the articles anyway, because I'm unlikely to encounter those dishes in my own life, and because hardly anyone else reading the English wikipedia will want to read them. There are so many more pressing articles waiting to be written. It's a matter of effectively using what knowledge resources we have for writing Wikipedia, and not squandering that energy trying attain some utopian but impractical balance across all countries.
If this quest for lack of "bias" is to be carried to its logical conclusion, then all the other language wikipedias must also include everything about seafood dishes from all round the work. The Koreans will have their own encyclopedia clogged with things like how New Zealanders source and cook their whitebait and fish and chips. That is a matter which might interest me, but would surely be of little interest to most Koreans. For me to demand that the Korean encyclopedia caters in this way to the interests of New Zealanders would be bordering on abuse. I imagine Koreans editors already have their work cut out trying to build their own language version, and would resent demands that they redirect their energies and write about what New Zealanders do with seafood.
That said, there are some seafood articles that should not show a systemic bias. Examples would be some of the overview articles, such as the main Seafood article itself, and most particularly the History of seafood article. I mostly wrote those articles, and I'm happy to cooperate with you and improve their balance. I think the best way to resolve the issue as far as seafood dishes go, would be write a few overview articles specifically on seafood dishes. For example, there is an article giving a global overview that is simply called Seafood dishes. However at the moment it is little more than a stub. Perhaps you would be willing to expand it so it meets your concern about inadequate coverage? In addition further articles could be written that that give regional overviews, such as Seafood dishes of Asia. -- Epipelagic ( talk) 22:03, 18 January 2014 (UTC)
I added some species to the list in this template, but most of them were deleted by User:Epipelagic claiming that this is only for widespread and highly commercial food fish. Now which criteria are applied to classify it as widespread and highly commercial? Just to illustrate:
I would say the role of these species as food is not smaller than say that of shark which is already included in the template. -- Off-shell ( talk) 22:30, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
-- Off-shell ( talk) 13:45, 18 January 2014 (UTC)
:::