This template is within the scope of WikiProject France, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
France on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.FranceWikipedia:WikiProject FranceTemplate:WikiProject FranceFrance articles
That is the type of thing which concerns me, yes. -
Sitush (
talk) 21:11, 19 November 2015 (UTC)reply
I repeatedly tried to remove it but it was repeatedly readded, and my complaining on the talk page was no use.
I think the right way to handle this sort of thing is to have a separate template (an "ISIL" template, for instance, which luckily already exists) listing the terrorist attacks they perpetrated. Then that template can be added to all the relevant pages.
LjL (
talk) 21:14, 19 November 2015 (UTC)reply
Well, this is the issue. Are the "related events" things that involved ISIL anywhere in the world, "terrorist" actions in 2015, "terrorist" actions in France, events involving so-called Muslim extremism ... the possibilities seem pretty endless without some sort of criteria. (I've been careful with my words because, for example, one person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter, although I accept that the common view is that this was indeed a terrorist attack). -
Sitush (
talk) 21:29, 19 November 2015 (UTC)reply
Band
@
178.94.166.186: re: Example text, I could ask why don't you try to reach a consensus before adding it? The band was on stage when the attacks happened, yes. Many things were happening at the same time, but this is a template that should link to the main related events and concepts, and these are just people who happened to be there. I don't see the relevant and I don't believe there is a worthwhile relevance.
LjL (
talk) 21:33, 19 November 2015 (UTC)
°reply
I don't, either. Seems more like a way for a fan to get a mention of their favourite band in a navbox. -
Sitush (
talk) 21:35, 19 November 2015 (UTC)reply
The band was on stage during the attack (linked in the main article) thus absolutely related link in the navbox.
178.94.166.186 (
talk) 21:38, 19 November 2015 (UTC)reply
You seem to be
WP:HOUNDING me. You came here out of the blue right after I had an
argument with you on
WP:ANEW.
LjL (
talk) 22:39, 19 November 2015 (UTC)reply
I lived in Paris for 6 years. I have my own opinions on this matter. Please don't project accusations.
Yossimgim (
talk) 22:40, 19 November 2015 (UTC)reply
You must think editors and admins are stupid.
LjL (
talk) 22:44, 19 November 2015 (UTC)reply
While stalking etc does go on, I don't think it is likely to impact greatly here and proving the pattern can be problematic. Certainly, one clash doesn't justify such a claim. I'd let it drop for now, LjL, unless you do indeed have evidence of some sort of pattern. That said, Yossimgim, your rationale is completely useless and will have no impact at all on any decision made regarding this discussion. I think you need to review
WP:CONSENSUS. -
Sitush (
talk) 00:31, 20 November 2015 (UTC)reply
The incident was a fair bit bigger than the particular edit here. You can check the editor's contributions page...
LjL (
talk) 00:34, 20 November 2015 (UTC)reply
I don't think it's necessary. The theater is linked here, the band and its members aren't needed. We wouldn't add the teams at the game and other secondary articles on the issue. --
Ricky81682 (
talk) 23:45, 19 November 2015 (UTC)reply
Exactly. -
Sitush (
talk) 00:31, 20 November 2015 (UTC)reply
The band, the names of the members of the band, the support band, are not necessary or helpful here. --
John (
talk) 13:38, 20 November 2015 (UTC)reply
I agree that the individual band members and the support band are not necessary, but why would the main band themselves be excluded, John? LugnutsDick Laurent is dead 11:56, 30 November 2015 (UTC)reply
It's pretty much irrelevant to the attacks. They survived, nothing happened concerning them. They're not a band of such notability that anyone thinking of the attack will think of the band, either (although people who know the band may conversely think of the attack, making a mention of the attack probably appropriate in the band's article).
LjL (
talk) 14:23, 30 November 2015 (UTC)reply
Thanks for that, but I was asking John and your comment of "They're not a band of such notability that anyone thinking of the attack will think of the band" is quite frankly bollocks. LugnutsDick Laurent is dead 14:50, 30 November 2015 (UTC)reply
You probably failed to notice, but this is not
John's talk page, it's a template's talk page.
LjL (
talk) 14:53, 30 November 2015 (UTC)reply
@
LjL: For your information,
WWGB kept removing the template from the main article and the reactions article every time I added it with the simple edit summary of "Relevance?" I was confused myself. Check the article's edit history if you don't believe me.
Parsley Man (
talk) 22:55, 24 March 2016 (UTC)reply
From which article? This is the template about the
November 2015 Paris attacks, so in my view, it should only be included within the
November 2015 Paris attacks article (although I've had disagreements about that sort of thing in the past). This templates includes events related to the Paris attacks, but it is, itself, about the Paris attacks, not those related events, so that's the article it belongs in. Anyway, see the section I've started below: what's the difference between the Brussels attacks and the other "Related events" listed?
LjL (
talk) 23:01, 24 March 2016 (UTC)reply
@
Parsley Man: well then, as I said, I agree with WWGB that the template should probably not be included there, but that doesn't mean that the article shouldn't be listed within the template. They are two separate things. The title of the template concerns the Paris attacks, not the Brussels attacks.
LjL (
talk) 23:19, 24 March 2016 (UTC)reply
The last time a mention of the
2016 Brussels bombings was removed from this template, it was done with the justification that they are not "notable", but clearly they must be very
notable since they have a prominent article that was even featured on
In The News. It was stated that
WWGB was the one making this claim, but I don't see them editing this template or discussing it on this talk page; if it was discussed elsewhere, well, it wasn't the right place.
In any case, this template lists several attacks under "Related events" where the only thing in common is that they were seemingly perpetrated by
ISIL, and I have seen no evidence or reasoning on why the Brussels bombings would somehow be different from other
ISIL-perpetrated attacks in Western countries. Since the article about them does claim ISIL responsibility, with sources, until there is some concrete reason to differentiate those attacks, they should remain as part of this template.
The
Reactions to the 2016 Brussels bombings article, on the other hand, has no place in this template. It is just a
WP:SPINOUT of the main article and, as such, linked from within it; it shouldn't be linked from a separate template.
LjL (
talk) 22:59, 24 March 2016 (UTC)reply
This template is within the scope of WikiProject France, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
France on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.FranceWikipedia:WikiProject FranceTemplate:WikiProject FranceFrance articles
That is the type of thing which concerns me, yes. -
Sitush (
talk) 21:11, 19 November 2015 (UTC)reply
I repeatedly tried to remove it but it was repeatedly readded, and my complaining on the talk page was no use.
I think the right way to handle this sort of thing is to have a separate template (an "ISIL" template, for instance, which luckily already exists) listing the terrorist attacks they perpetrated. Then that template can be added to all the relevant pages.
LjL (
talk) 21:14, 19 November 2015 (UTC)reply
Well, this is the issue. Are the "related events" things that involved ISIL anywhere in the world, "terrorist" actions in 2015, "terrorist" actions in France, events involving so-called Muslim extremism ... the possibilities seem pretty endless without some sort of criteria. (I've been careful with my words because, for example, one person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter, although I accept that the common view is that this was indeed a terrorist attack). -
Sitush (
talk) 21:29, 19 November 2015 (UTC)reply
Band
@
178.94.166.186: re: Example text, I could ask why don't you try to reach a consensus before adding it? The band was on stage when the attacks happened, yes. Many things were happening at the same time, but this is a template that should link to the main related events and concepts, and these are just people who happened to be there. I don't see the relevant and I don't believe there is a worthwhile relevance.
LjL (
talk) 21:33, 19 November 2015 (UTC)
°reply
I don't, either. Seems more like a way for a fan to get a mention of their favourite band in a navbox. -
Sitush (
talk) 21:35, 19 November 2015 (UTC)reply
The band was on stage during the attack (linked in the main article) thus absolutely related link in the navbox.
178.94.166.186 (
talk) 21:38, 19 November 2015 (UTC)reply
You seem to be
WP:HOUNDING me. You came here out of the blue right after I had an
argument with you on
WP:ANEW.
LjL (
talk) 22:39, 19 November 2015 (UTC)reply
I lived in Paris for 6 years. I have my own opinions on this matter. Please don't project accusations.
Yossimgim (
talk) 22:40, 19 November 2015 (UTC)reply
You must think editors and admins are stupid.
LjL (
talk) 22:44, 19 November 2015 (UTC)reply
While stalking etc does go on, I don't think it is likely to impact greatly here and proving the pattern can be problematic. Certainly, one clash doesn't justify such a claim. I'd let it drop for now, LjL, unless you do indeed have evidence of some sort of pattern. That said, Yossimgim, your rationale is completely useless and will have no impact at all on any decision made regarding this discussion. I think you need to review
WP:CONSENSUS. -
Sitush (
talk) 00:31, 20 November 2015 (UTC)reply
The incident was a fair bit bigger than the particular edit here. You can check the editor's contributions page...
LjL (
talk) 00:34, 20 November 2015 (UTC)reply
I don't think it's necessary. The theater is linked here, the band and its members aren't needed. We wouldn't add the teams at the game and other secondary articles on the issue. --
Ricky81682 (
talk) 23:45, 19 November 2015 (UTC)reply
Exactly. -
Sitush (
talk) 00:31, 20 November 2015 (UTC)reply
The band, the names of the members of the band, the support band, are not necessary or helpful here. --
John (
talk) 13:38, 20 November 2015 (UTC)reply
I agree that the individual band members and the support band are not necessary, but why would the main band themselves be excluded, John? LugnutsDick Laurent is dead 11:56, 30 November 2015 (UTC)reply
It's pretty much irrelevant to the attacks. They survived, nothing happened concerning them. They're not a band of such notability that anyone thinking of the attack will think of the band, either (although people who know the band may conversely think of the attack, making a mention of the attack probably appropriate in the band's article).
LjL (
talk) 14:23, 30 November 2015 (UTC)reply
Thanks for that, but I was asking John and your comment of "They're not a band of such notability that anyone thinking of the attack will think of the band" is quite frankly bollocks. LugnutsDick Laurent is dead 14:50, 30 November 2015 (UTC)reply
You probably failed to notice, but this is not
John's talk page, it's a template's talk page.
LjL (
talk) 14:53, 30 November 2015 (UTC)reply
@
LjL: For your information,
WWGB kept removing the template from the main article and the reactions article every time I added it with the simple edit summary of "Relevance?" I was confused myself. Check the article's edit history if you don't believe me.
Parsley Man (
talk) 22:55, 24 March 2016 (UTC)reply
From which article? This is the template about the
November 2015 Paris attacks, so in my view, it should only be included within the
November 2015 Paris attacks article (although I've had disagreements about that sort of thing in the past). This templates includes events related to the Paris attacks, but it is, itself, about the Paris attacks, not those related events, so that's the article it belongs in. Anyway, see the section I've started below: what's the difference between the Brussels attacks and the other "Related events" listed?
LjL (
talk) 23:01, 24 March 2016 (UTC)reply
@
Parsley Man: well then, as I said, I agree with WWGB that the template should probably not be included there, but that doesn't mean that the article shouldn't be listed within the template. They are two separate things. The title of the template concerns the Paris attacks, not the Brussels attacks.
LjL (
talk) 23:19, 24 March 2016 (UTC)reply
The last time a mention of the
2016 Brussels bombings was removed from this template, it was done with the justification that they are not "notable", but clearly they must be very
notable since they have a prominent article that was even featured on
In The News. It was stated that
WWGB was the one making this claim, but I don't see them editing this template or discussing it on this talk page; if it was discussed elsewhere, well, it wasn't the right place.
In any case, this template lists several attacks under "Related events" where the only thing in common is that they were seemingly perpetrated by
ISIL, and I have seen no evidence or reasoning on why the Brussels bombings would somehow be different from other
ISIL-perpetrated attacks in Western countries. Since the article about them does claim ISIL responsibility, with sources, until there is some concrete reason to differentiate those attacks, they should remain as part of this template.
The
Reactions to the 2016 Brussels bombings article, on the other hand, has no place in this template. It is just a
WP:SPINOUT of the main article and, as such, linked from within it; it shouldn't be linked from a separate template.
LjL (
talk) 22:59, 24 March 2016 (UTC)reply