This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
History of Afghanistan template. |
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Afghanistan Template‑class | |||||||
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History Template‑class | |||||||
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Beh-nam deleted the Hotaki dynasty from this template saying: "History of Afghanistan starts with the Durrani empire, not the short Hotaki dynasty."
Hotaki Dynasty has nothing to do with Afghanistan. The term Afghanistan was unknown during that time period. Just because there center was in kandahar doesnt mean its Afghan history, if thats so then why arent we adding the uzbek khanates in the north during the 19th century, they also controlled parts of modern day afghanistan-- Anoshirawan 07:54, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
Bejnar the Hotakis only controlled parts of southern Afghanistan, If thats soo we should add the independent khanates in the north during the same time.--
Anoshirawan 22:32, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
During the 18th century the only place which was called "Afghanistan" was the Peshawar valley and the Salaiman Mountains(the land of Roh).
Here is an extract from the Babur Nama
"The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were questioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, “Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances.” Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns."--Anoshirawan 01:28, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
The hotakis only controlled small regions in modern day Afghanistan. They werent even native to the land. This template is for Afghanistan's modern history(Afghanistan isnt even 200 years old).
--Anoshirawan 01:20, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
Tahmasp ruled not only modern Iran but Greater Iran thats why he isnt listed in the Iranian section. Hotakis also ruled parts of Afghanistan,Iran,Baluchistan but they never ruled Afghanistan and during that time period there was no Afghanistan. Mirwais's first capital was in Baluchistan then he moved it to kandahar; His descendants moved the capital from kandahar to modern Iran.--Anoshirawan 03:59, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
The thing that you dont get is that the Hotakis had a bigger impact on Iran than Afghanistan. It should be listed in the Greater Iran template not in this one.--Anoshirawan 05:48, 16 October 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Anoshirawan ( talk • contribs)
Again, the new template has the problem of classifying the Hotaki dynasty as Pashtun rule since we are not sure of Mirwais Khan Hotak's ethnicity and also the Hotaki dynasty did not have control of most of today's Afghanistan. -- Behnam 06:05, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
Hey bros, what do you think now about the template?? if you don´t like it you can change it..but i think we should stay close to history . -- Aspandyar Agha 20:07, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
Request for comments on whether this template should include the Hotaki dynasty:
THERE WAS NO STH LIKE A PERSIAN AFGHANISTAN BEFORE 1911 it was Kabulistan, Khorasan, Bactria and Aryanam Vaey....Tajik!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.68.213.70 ( talk) 21:47, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
nothing is irrelevant because it is facts. Afghanistan exist since 1919 officially. BUT THERE WAS NO AFGHANISTAN BEFORE 1911. It was called by the local people as Kabulistan, like Persians called their country Persia because of the province Pars where the rulers sit was. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.68.220.108 ( talk) 20:46, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
Please read this, do not edit until you have read it.
Until the 19th century the name was only used for the traditional lands of the Pashtuns, while the kingdom as a whole was known as the Kingdom of Kabul, as mentioned by the British statesman and historian Mountstuart Elphinstone. [1] Other parts of the country were at certain periods recognized as independent kingdoms, such as the Kingdom of Balkh in the late eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries. [2]
With the expansion and centralization of the country, Afghan authorities adopted and extended the name "Afghanistan" to the entire kingdom, after its English translation, "Afghanland", had already appeared in various treaties between British Raj and Qajarid Persia, referring to the lands that were subject to the Pashtun Barakzai Dynasty of Kabul. [3] "Afghanistan" as the name for the entire kingdom was mentioned in 1857 by Frederick Engels. [4] It became the official name when the country was recognized by the world community in 1919, after regaining its full independence from the British, [5] and was confirmed as such in the nation's 1923 constitution. [6]''
Due to repeated reverts by socks of Beh-nam, I have semi-protected the template for a month. This means no new or unregistered users will be able to edit it. If you have any problems with this, please let me know. Regards, пﮟოьεԻ 5 7 09:08, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
On 20 January 2008 Anoshirawan deleted detail from the template claiming "Durranis and hotakis werent local". This is clearly a spurious reason, as reading the Durrani Empire article: "The Durrani Empire was a large state that included territories within modern Afghanistan, Pakistan, the Khorasan province of Iran and a smaller section of western India." and the Hotaki dynasty article: "The Hotaki dynasty (1709-1738) was founded in 1709 by Mirwais Khan Hotak, an ethnic Pashtun from the Ghilzai clan[1] of Kandahar province in modern-day Afghanistan." clearly show that they are part of the history of this place. -- Bejnar ( talk) 21:48, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
Durranis were from Multan of Panjab which has nothing to do with Afghanistan. The Hotakis were also from the Salaiman ranges which is part of Pakistan not Modern day Afghanistan.--Anoshirawan 10:22, 21 January 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Anoshirawan ( talk • contribs)
The soft protection was no sufficient. Please discuss concerns about this template here. An edit war must be averted. Kingturtle ( talk) 12:06, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
In the firs box, we just need to write simple words as: History of Afghanistan from ancient times. 96.229.179.106 ( talk) 07:28, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
How about adding Kushan Empire and Greco-Bactrian Kingdom as subsets in the first box? -- Bejnar ( talk) 02:33, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
Umayyad Caliphate | 661–750 |
Abbasid Caliphate | 750–1258 |
Tahirid dynasty | 821–873 |
Alavid dynasty | 864–928 |
Saffarid dynasty | 861–1003 |
Samanid dynasty | 819–999 |
Ziyarid dynasty | 928–1043 |
Buyid Dynasty | 934–1055 |
Ghaznavid Empire | 975–1187 |
Ghori dynasty | 1149–1212 |
Seljuk Empire | 1037–1194 |
Khwarezmid dynasty | 1077–1231 |
Kartids dynasty | 1231-1389 |
Ilkhanate | 1256–1353 |
Muzaffarid dynasty | 1314–1393 |
Chupanid dyansty | 1337–1357 |
Jalayerid dynasty | 1339–1432 |
Timurid Empire | 1370–1506 |
Qara Qoyunlu Turcomans | 1407–1468 |
Aq Qoyunlu Turcomans | 1378–1508 |
Safavid Empire | 1501–1722* |
Mughal Empire | 1526–1857 |
Hotaki dynasty | 1722–1729 |
Afsharid dynasty | 1736–1802 |
* or 1736 | |
* or 1736 |
This is why several users have been removing the Ghaznavid (Turkish) and Ghorid (Tajik) dynasties Hazara898 ( talk) 02:39, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
But many of these did not operate in Afghanistan such as the Buyid dynasty. -- Bejnar ( talk) 21:10, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
Umayyad Caliphate | 661–750 |
Abbasid Caliphate | 750–1258 |
Tahirid dynasty | 821–873 |
Saffarid dynasty | 861–1003 |
Samanid dynasty | 819–999 |
Ghaznavid Empire | 975–1187 |
Ghori dynasty | 1149–1212 |
Seljuk Empire | 1037–1194 |
Khwarezmid dynasty | 1077–1231 |
Kartids dynasty | 1231-1389 |
Ilkhanate | 1256–1353 |
Timurid Empire | 1370–1506 |
Safavid Empire | 1501–1722* |
Mughal Empire | 1526–1857 |
Hotaki dynasty | 1722–1729 |
Afsharid dynasty | 1736–1802 |
* or 1736 | |
* or 1736 |
If you have Ghaznavid and Ghorid dynasty now you must either include all these or remove those two. Hazara898 ( talk) 00:53, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
Kapisa was the capital city of Kushans, Zaranj was the capital of Saffarids, Ghazni was the capital of Ghaznavids, Ghor was the capital of Ghurids, Herat and Kandahar were capitals of Timurids, Kandahar and Kabul were the capitals of Durranis. All of the above are obviously part of Afghanistan's history first, then they become part of the history of neighboring countries.-- 203.175.65.176 ( talk) 01:25, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
This timeline needs a lot of improvement .
It currently states a blanket date for Sassinds (224-651)??? , ruling all of Afghanistan ???
Intothefire (
talk) 14:42, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
As I just explained in the above paragraph, it is difficult to write the ruling dates and conquered areas of each dynasty in Afghanistan. Since during the existence of an empire, it attacked several times Afghanistan, ruled some parts or all of Afghanistan for a period, then lost all of them, and again re-conquered some of its territories in Afghanistan after a period of time. There is another difficulty in putting in order the Pre-Islamic dynasties. Between 226-438 (or 579), the Sassanids were present all the time in the western and northern Afghanistan. But in the eastern areas, the later four dynasties overlapped each other. And not to forget, that Kidarites and Hephthalites all belong to to the same tribe known as White Huns, and Kabul Shahis as the descendants of Kushano-Sassanids. Therefore, between 410-651, the Sassanids, Indo-Sassanids, Kidarites, Hephthalites and Kabul Shahis whether co-existed in different regions of the country, whether existed solely. So "Relating Dynasties to areas and dates" would be a difficult task to do. Ariana ( talk) 18:56, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
Response 2 from Intothefire
.
This map should enable us to now put in ref and context the geographical domains to each dynasty .
Lets first enumerate the main dynasties that come after Alexander .
Next we also know that Alexander conquered Afghanistan after 330
and was followed by the
Selucids
followed by the
Mauryan
followed by the
Sunga
followed by
Greco Bactarians,
followed by
Indo Greeks
followed by Kushanshahs or
Indo-Scythians
followed by
Parthians
followed by
Indo Parthians
followed by
Kushans
followed by
Sassinds and
Kushanshahs
followed by
Kidarite Huns or Huna collectively known as
Hephthalite
followed by Sassanian king
Khusrow 1
Overlapping with Turk Shahis
followed by
Hindu Shahi
Apart from this there are several important pre-islamic dynasties ruling different parts of Afghanistan at the time of Mahmud Ghazni , these include the
The above should also be listed , Afghanistan is an ancient and culturally advanced country with a known history . Hope you agree with this approach .
Intothefire (
talk) 18:38, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
Dynasty | Period | Domain | |||
---|---|---|---|---|---|
Selucid | row 1, cell 2 | row 1, cell 3 | |||
Mauryan | row 2, cell 2 | row 2, cell 3 | |||
Sunga | row 2, cell 2 | row 2, cell 3 | |||
Greco Bactarians | row 2, cell 2 | row 2, cell 3 | |||
Indo Greeks | row 2, cell 2 | row 2, cell 3 | |||
Kushanshahs or Indo-Scythians | row 2, cell 2 | row 2, cell 3 | |||
Parthians | row 2, cell 2 | row 2, cell 3 | |||
Indo Parthians | row 2, cell 2 | row 2, cell 3 | |||
Kushans | row 2, cell 2 | row 2, cell 3 | |||
Sassinds and Kushanshahs | row 2, cell 2 | row 2, cell 3 | |||
Kidarite Huns or Huna collectively known as Hephthalite | row 2, cell 2 | row 2, cell 3 | |||
Sassanian king Khusrow 1 | row 2, cell 2 | row 2, cell 3 | |||
Turk Shahis | Starting 5th Century King Khingala [7] | Kapisa Kabul, Eastern Afghanistan, Gandhara North-West Frontier Province, Peshawar few regions of Punjab | |||
Hindu Shahi | Closing years of the tenth and the early eleventh century. Jayapala defeated by Mahmud [8] in 1013 Kabuls last Shahi ruler [9] |
Gandhara overrun by Mahmud . [11] Kabul valley | |||
Zunbils | Zunbils deposed by Ya'qub-i Laith Saffari first Saffarid ruler in 870 AD [12] | Zabulistan Kandahar. [13] |
Intothefire ( talk) 16:36, 6 February 2010 (UTC) Intothefire ( talk) 13:34, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
Region | Conquered by | Date |
---|---|---|
Ghazni Province | Saffarid In 683 AD, Arab armies brought Islam to the area and attempted to conquer the capital of Ghazni but the local tribes fiercely resisted.Its resistance was so famed that Yaqub Saffari (840-879) from Zaranj made an example of Ghazni when he ranged the vast region conquering in the name of Islam. The city was completely destroyed by the Saffarids in 869 AD. [14] | 869 |
Balkh | Samanids take Balkh [15] | 900 AD |
Ghor | Mahmud of Ghazni [16] defeats Ibn Suri | 1010 |
Zamindawar |
|
Late 9th early 10th century |
Bamian |
|
Late 9th and again late 10th centuries [19] |
Kandahar |
|
10th and early 11th |
Nuristan Province |
|
19th century |
Intothefire ( talk) 17:56, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
Hi user Ariana310
Would you also like to look at the order of Shahis and Ghaznavids on the template
...the Ghaznavids defeated the Shahis
but in the template the dates are showing a seperation of about 3 centuries ,
I think this needs correction as well .Cheers
Intothefire (
talk) 17:58, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
Actually, in the Template, it is meant the first period of the Kabul Shahi dynasty. The first dynasty of Kabul Shahi is also known as Ratbel-Shahan, which ruled parts of Afghanistan between 565 CE to 670 CE with Kapisa, Kabul and Kandahar as their capitals. However, the term "Kabul Shahi" has also been used for "Hindu Shahi" when they had Udabhandapura as their capital, because Hindu Shahis were their descendants. So Ghaznavids defeated Hindu Shahis, not the early Kabul Shahis.
In the Template, we should only keep the record for the early Kabul Shahis. We are not interested in the later Hindu Shahis because they ruled outside the current Afghan territories. Ariana ( talk) 21:40, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
Hi Ariana310 ,
“ | 'Yamini turks had claimed their descent from Shahyar , the last of the Parthian ruler who was killed in 637AD in the battle of Cadesia . The family had migrated to Turkistan and after three generations had passed on as Turks . Their founder Sabuktgin had come into the service of Alptgin , a Samanid governor of Turkistan . The latter had captured Ghazni and settled there in 963AD . He raised Sabuktgin to the position of a general .After the death of Alptgin in 966 AD , Balktgin the commander of Turkish troops succeeded him who was later succeeded by Pirai a slave . The latter was a cruel king and the people of Zabul invited Abu Ali Lawik son of the last ruler of Zabul who in alliance with the Shahis of Udabhanda (who then ruled from Kabul to Punjab with Udabhanda as capital marched to recover Ghazni .On the way at Charkh ,Sabuktgin defeated them and became a hero . [22] | ” |
Alptigin seized Zabulistan together with its capital Ghazni from Amir Abu Bakr Lawik in c AD 963 , and there established an indipendent kingdom .He raised Sabuktigin to the position of a general . [23] Intothefire ( talk) 06:45, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
Udabhanda was the capital of the Shahi dynasty . The Shahi ( Devanagari शाही) also called Shahiya, [24] [25] dynasties ruled portions of the Kabul Valley (in eastern Afghanistan) and the old province of Gandhara (northern Pakistan and Kashmir) from the decline of the Kushan Empire in third century to the early ninth century. [25] The kingdom was known as Kabul-shahan or Ratbel-shahan from (565 - 670 CE) when they had their capitals in Kapisa and Kabul, and later Udabhandapura (also known as Hund) [26] for its new capital. The term Shahi is the title of the rulers, likely related to the Kushan form Shao [25] or Persian form Shah and refers to a series of 60 rulers probably descended from the Kushans or Turks (Turshkas). [25] They are split into two eras the Buddhist Turk-Shahis and the later Hindu-Shahis with the change-over occurring sometime around 870.
Intothefire ( talk) 07:04, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
Therefore Considering all the references provided above , this template needs immediate correction , the Shahis were contemporarys of the Ghaznavids and it is ridiculous for the timeline to show a 3 century interval . Lets correct this to begin with immediately ....hope you agree.
Intothefire (
talk) 07:17, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
“ | The kingdom was known as "Kabul Shahi" (Kabul-shāhān or Ratbél-shāhān in Persian کابلشاهان یا رتبیل شاهان) between 565 and 879 [27] CE when they had Kapisa and Kabul as their capitals, and later as " Hindu Shahi" when they moved their capital to Udabhandapura (also known as Hund) [28]. | ” |
Sorry, I did not get what exactly you want to say. Let's consolidate our points:
Yes of course, the template needs an improvement, especially the pre- Achaemenid era. But specifically concerning the Kabul Shahis, I don't see any conflict. Ariana ( talk) 22:21, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
Please use easy to understand titles. "Islamic period" ending in 1747 is giving impression to people who don't know Afghanistan's history that Islam came and gone, "Post 18th century" is also confusing sometimes because people think of 1800 or 19th century. Modern history or Modern era is better, I believe.-- AllahLovesYou ( talk) 23:31, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
This template is about the History of Afghanistan, any image placed in the template must be clearly about Afghanistan. Something that Afghanistan is well known for. I have added an image of one of the giant Buddhas of Bamiyan as this is the first thing that comes into people's mind when they think of the history of Afghanistan. Ksmdr ( talk) 09:52, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
In fact, for the next fifteen centuries, these two colossal Buddhas of Bamiyan, the largest figures of their kind in the world — 55 meters and 38 meters high — epitomized the glory, splendor, stability and prosperity of Afghanistan during its golden age – a civilization in harmony with its neighbours. Soon I will try to create few examples of photo collages, representing the prehistory, the ancient, the medieval and the modern history of Afghanistan. Regarding the first two images, they are not copyrighted and I took them from the website 'Cultural Training Resources', which belongs to US Department of Defense -- Artacoana ( talk) 20:01, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
I changed the image to Mazar-i-Sharif's blue mosque. Using the Buddha's is a bit pretentious because these don't in any way represent modern Afghan society; their only claim to fame is that they were blown-up by the Taliban. On the other hand, the blue mosque represents a famous, beautiful building which represents the modern Muslim society of the country.-- 58.106.233.55 ( talk) 10:29, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
Arachosia alone does not represent what is today known as Afghanistan, but rather a small part (province) of the ruling empires and dynasties. (See the map) Afghanistan, due it's geostrategic position in Central Asia and on the ancient trade routes, such as the Silk Road, and migration of various peoples throughout its history, has always been a multi-ethnic and multicultural country. The identity of this country doesn't represent only one particular ethnic group, but rather all the ethnic groups together living in this country for centuries. Pashtuns are not the owners of this country, neither it's their original homeland. In fact, there is no single trace of Pashtuns' presence in the history of this country, before the 17th century. Moreover, Wikipedia is not the place for racial and ethnic bigotry, as this is a clear violation of Neutral point of view policy of Wikipedia.-- Artacoana ( talk) 22:31, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
Dear Ksmdr, I have nothing against Pashtuns. Apparently, you haven't got my point. The history of our country doesn't only cover the modern period, ie. from 1747 and the establishment of the first Pashtun rule in our country and onward. The history also include the ancient and medieval periods, when Pashtuns were not ruling our land, but it was the Persians, Macedonians, Scythians, Huns and Indians during the ancient times and their descendants, the Tajiks together with the Turks during the medieval times. The ancient names of ethnics are not relevant here. The name "Apridae" that you mention doesn't necessarily mean that they were the ancestors of the Afridi tribe of the Pashtuns, otherwise, the Hebrew tribe of Ephraim may also be a reference to the Afridi tribe, who have never ruled this land. Furthermore, the name "Afghanistan" is not relevant here, but it's the history of the LAND that matters. There has never been a ruling dynasty or empire with their capitals in Arachosia. In fact, Bactria is much better candid, due to it's center and origin of Greco-Bactrian and Kushan rule. But these small provinces alone are not relevant either. However, "Ariana" was the name of a country, including these provinces, as mentioned by the ancient Greek and Roman geographers. There are also countless references of the geographers of the Islamic period to the name "Khorasan", including Balkh, Tukharestan, Kabulistan, Zabulistan, Herat, Sistan, Samangan, and many more. We are not here to initiate an edit waring, based on ethnic conflicts. I'm going to change the template, leaving the country names "Ariana" and "Khorasan" on the top, and mentioning the regional and provincial names underneath. I'm looking forward to hearing your opinion about this.-- Artacoana ( talk) 00:33, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
I'm not advancing the Persian identity and heritage over the Pashtun's, as you can see from my edits on 'History of Afghanistan (pre-Islamic period) in Persian Wikipedia. The reason I removed empires and names of places from the article ' Herat' is because I'm worried about a barbaric and false belief among some Pashtuns that consider themselves as the true owners of Afghanistan and see other ethnic groups as 'the immigrants'! This is totally unfair and wrong! Today it is commonly accepted that the Tajiks are the oldest inhabitants of this country and have made an outstanding contributions in various domains of our cultural heritage (See people like Avicenna, Biruni, Rumi, and hundreds more.) But these Pashtuns ignore this fact, simply because they see it as a threat to their rule over them. The same indication, when you included Arachosia in the template, ignoring Bactria, simply because it lies to the north of the country where it's inhabited by non-Pashtuns, mostly by the Tajiks.
I'm not saying this to provoke hatred towards my Pashtun fellow-country-folk in general. I only hate this particular belief that have resulted in ethnic cleansing of some of our people, and stealing their lands. Today, all we need is respect, tolerance and acceptance of each other's identity and culture and unity to rebuild our war-torn country. We need to realise the fact that the centrality of our country in the ancient trade routes created a rich mosaic of cultures and ethnics. In fact, the only successful and thriving dynasties were those who respected this multi-ethnic society and showed tolerance toward cultural and religious differences, cultural and artistic thrive and economic prosperity during the Kushans were an example. In contrast, those totalitarian intolerant forces such as the Arabs and most recently the Taliban failed. I hope you have understood my point of view. I don't hate anyone, nor I'm trying to downgrade any culture in my country.-- Artacoana ( talk) 21:59, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
History of Afghanistan template. |
|
Afghanistan Template‑class | |||||||
|
History Template‑class | |||||||
|
Beh-nam deleted the Hotaki dynasty from this template saying: "History of Afghanistan starts with the Durrani empire, not the short Hotaki dynasty."
Hotaki Dynasty has nothing to do with Afghanistan. The term Afghanistan was unknown during that time period. Just because there center was in kandahar doesnt mean its Afghan history, if thats so then why arent we adding the uzbek khanates in the north during the 19th century, they also controlled parts of modern day afghanistan-- Anoshirawan 07:54, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
Bejnar the Hotakis only controlled parts of southern Afghanistan, If thats soo we should add the independent khanates in the north during the same time.--
Anoshirawan 22:32, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
During the 18th century the only place which was called "Afghanistan" was the Peshawar valley and the Salaiman Mountains(the land of Roh).
Here is an extract from the Babur Nama
"The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were questioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, “Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances.” Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns."--Anoshirawan 01:28, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
The hotakis only controlled small regions in modern day Afghanistan. They werent even native to the land. This template is for Afghanistan's modern history(Afghanistan isnt even 200 years old).
--Anoshirawan 01:20, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
Tahmasp ruled not only modern Iran but Greater Iran thats why he isnt listed in the Iranian section. Hotakis also ruled parts of Afghanistan,Iran,Baluchistan but they never ruled Afghanistan and during that time period there was no Afghanistan. Mirwais's first capital was in Baluchistan then he moved it to kandahar; His descendants moved the capital from kandahar to modern Iran.--Anoshirawan 03:59, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
The thing that you dont get is that the Hotakis had a bigger impact on Iran than Afghanistan. It should be listed in the Greater Iran template not in this one.--Anoshirawan 05:48, 16 October 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Anoshirawan ( talk • contribs)
Again, the new template has the problem of classifying the Hotaki dynasty as Pashtun rule since we are not sure of Mirwais Khan Hotak's ethnicity and also the Hotaki dynasty did not have control of most of today's Afghanistan. -- Behnam 06:05, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
Hey bros, what do you think now about the template?? if you don´t like it you can change it..but i think we should stay close to history . -- Aspandyar Agha 20:07, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
Request for comments on whether this template should include the Hotaki dynasty:
THERE WAS NO STH LIKE A PERSIAN AFGHANISTAN BEFORE 1911 it was Kabulistan, Khorasan, Bactria and Aryanam Vaey....Tajik!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.68.213.70 ( talk) 21:47, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
nothing is irrelevant because it is facts. Afghanistan exist since 1919 officially. BUT THERE WAS NO AFGHANISTAN BEFORE 1911. It was called by the local people as Kabulistan, like Persians called their country Persia because of the province Pars where the rulers sit was. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.68.220.108 ( talk) 20:46, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
Please read this, do not edit until you have read it.
Until the 19th century the name was only used for the traditional lands of the Pashtuns, while the kingdom as a whole was known as the Kingdom of Kabul, as mentioned by the British statesman and historian Mountstuart Elphinstone. [1] Other parts of the country were at certain periods recognized as independent kingdoms, such as the Kingdom of Balkh in the late eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries. [2]
With the expansion and centralization of the country, Afghan authorities adopted and extended the name "Afghanistan" to the entire kingdom, after its English translation, "Afghanland", had already appeared in various treaties between British Raj and Qajarid Persia, referring to the lands that were subject to the Pashtun Barakzai Dynasty of Kabul. [3] "Afghanistan" as the name for the entire kingdom was mentioned in 1857 by Frederick Engels. [4] It became the official name when the country was recognized by the world community in 1919, after regaining its full independence from the British, [5] and was confirmed as such in the nation's 1923 constitution. [6]''
Due to repeated reverts by socks of Beh-nam, I have semi-protected the template for a month. This means no new or unregistered users will be able to edit it. If you have any problems with this, please let me know. Regards, пﮟოьεԻ 5 7 09:08, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
On 20 January 2008 Anoshirawan deleted detail from the template claiming "Durranis and hotakis werent local". This is clearly a spurious reason, as reading the Durrani Empire article: "The Durrani Empire was a large state that included territories within modern Afghanistan, Pakistan, the Khorasan province of Iran and a smaller section of western India." and the Hotaki dynasty article: "The Hotaki dynasty (1709-1738) was founded in 1709 by Mirwais Khan Hotak, an ethnic Pashtun from the Ghilzai clan[1] of Kandahar province in modern-day Afghanistan." clearly show that they are part of the history of this place. -- Bejnar ( talk) 21:48, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
Durranis were from Multan of Panjab which has nothing to do with Afghanistan. The Hotakis were also from the Salaiman ranges which is part of Pakistan not Modern day Afghanistan.--Anoshirawan 10:22, 21 January 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Anoshirawan ( talk • contribs)
The soft protection was no sufficient. Please discuss concerns about this template here. An edit war must be averted. Kingturtle ( talk) 12:06, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
In the firs box, we just need to write simple words as: History of Afghanistan from ancient times. 96.229.179.106 ( talk) 07:28, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
How about adding Kushan Empire and Greco-Bactrian Kingdom as subsets in the first box? -- Bejnar ( talk) 02:33, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
Umayyad Caliphate | 661–750 |
Abbasid Caliphate | 750–1258 |
Tahirid dynasty | 821–873 |
Alavid dynasty | 864–928 |
Saffarid dynasty | 861–1003 |
Samanid dynasty | 819–999 |
Ziyarid dynasty | 928–1043 |
Buyid Dynasty | 934–1055 |
Ghaznavid Empire | 975–1187 |
Ghori dynasty | 1149–1212 |
Seljuk Empire | 1037–1194 |
Khwarezmid dynasty | 1077–1231 |
Kartids dynasty | 1231-1389 |
Ilkhanate | 1256–1353 |
Muzaffarid dynasty | 1314–1393 |
Chupanid dyansty | 1337–1357 |
Jalayerid dynasty | 1339–1432 |
Timurid Empire | 1370–1506 |
Qara Qoyunlu Turcomans | 1407–1468 |
Aq Qoyunlu Turcomans | 1378–1508 |
Safavid Empire | 1501–1722* |
Mughal Empire | 1526–1857 |
Hotaki dynasty | 1722–1729 |
Afsharid dynasty | 1736–1802 |
* or 1736 | |
* or 1736 |
This is why several users have been removing the Ghaznavid (Turkish) and Ghorid (Tajik) dynasties Hazara898 ( talk) 02:39, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
But many of these did not operate in Afghanistan such as the Buyid dynasty. -- Bejnar ( talk) 21:10, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
Umayyad Caliphate | 661–750 |
Abbasid Caliphate | 750–1258 |
Tahirid dynasty | 821–873 |
Saffarid dynasty | 861–1003 |
Samanid dynasty | 819–999 |
Ghaznavid Empire | 975–1187 |
Ghori dynasty | 1149–1212 |
Seljuk Empire | 1037–1194 |
Khwarezmid dynasty | 1077–1231 |
Kartids dynasty | 1231-1389 |
Ilkhanate | 1256–1353 |
Timurid Empire | 1370–1506 |
Safavid Empire | 1501–1722* |
Mughal Empire | 1526–1857 |
Hotaki dynasty | 1722–1729 |
Afsharid dynasty | 1736–1802 |
* or 1736 | |
* or 1736 |
If you have Ghaznavid and Ghorid dynasty now you must either include all these or remove those two. Hazara898 ( talk) 00:53, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
Kapisa was the capital city of Kushans, Zaranj was the capital of Saffarids, Ghazni was the capital of Ghaznavids, Ghor was the capital of Ghurids, Herat and Kandahar were capitals of Timurids, Kandahar and Kabul were the capitals of Durranis. All of the above are obviously part of Afghanistan's history first, then they become part of the history of neighboring countries.-- 203.175.65.176 ( talk) 01:25, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
This timeline needs a lot of improvement .
It currently states a blanket date for Sassinds (224-651)??? , ruling all of Afghanistan ???
Intothefire (
talk) 14:42, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
As I just explained in the above paragraph, it is difficult to write the ruling dates and conquered areas of each dynasty in Afghanistan. Since during the existence of an empire, it attacked several times Afghanistan, ruled some parts or all of Afghanistan for a period, then lost all of them, and again re-conquered some of its territories in Afghanistan after a period of time. There is another difficulty in putting in order the Pre-Islamic dynasties. Between 226-438 (or 579), the Sassanids were present all the time in the western and northern Afghanistan. But in the eastern areas, the later four dynasties overlapped each other. And not to forget, that Kidarites and Hephthalites all belong to to the same tribe known as White Huns, and Kabul Shahis as the descendants of Kushano-Sassanids. Therefore, between 410-651, the Sassanids, Indo-Sassanids, Kidarites, Hephthalites and Kabul Shahis whether co-existed in different regions of the country, whether existed solely. So "Relating Dynasties to areas and dates" would be a difficult task to do. Ariana ( talk) 18:56, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
Response 2 from Intothefire
.
This map should enable us to now put in ref and context the geographical domains to each dynasty .
Lets first enumerate the main dynasties that come after Alexander .
Next we also know that Alexander conquered Afghanistan after 330
and was followed by the
Selucids
followed by the
Mauryan
followed by the
Sunga
followed by
Greco Bactarians,
followed by
Indo Greeks
followed by Kushanshahs or
Indo-Scythians
followed by
Parthians
followed by
Indo Parthians
followed by
Kushans
followed by
Sassinds and
Kushanshahs
followed by
Kidarite Huns or Huna collectively known as
Hephthalite
followed by Sassanian king
Khusrow 1
Overlapping with Turk Shahis
followed by
Hindu Shahi
Apart from this there are several important pre-islamic dynasties ruling different parts of Afghanistan at the time of Mahmud Ghazni , these include the
The above should also be listed , Afghanistan is an ancient and culturally advanced country with a known history . Hope you agree with this approach .
Intothefire (
talk) 18:38, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
Dynasty | Period | Domain | |||
---|---|---|---|---|---|
Selucid | row 1, cell 2 | row 1, cell 3 | |||
Mauryan | row 2, cell 2 | row 2, cell 3 | |||
Sunga | row 2, cell 2 | row 2, cell 3 | |||
Greco Bactarians | row 2, cell 2 | row 2, cell 3 | |||
Indo Greeks | row 2, cell 2 | row 2, cell 3 | |||
Kushanshahs or Indo-Scythians | row 2, cell 2 | row 2, cell 3 | |||
Parthians | row 2, cell 2 | row 2, cell 3 | |||
Indo Parthians | row 2, cell 2 | row 2, cell 3 | |||
Kushans | row 2, cell 2 | row 2, cell 3 | |||
Sassinds and Kushanshahs | row 2, cell 2 | row 2, cell 3 | |||
Kidarite Huns or Huna collectively known as Hephthalite | row 2, cell 2 | row 2, cell 3 | |||
Sassanian king Khusrow 1 | row 2, cell 2 | row 2, cell 3 | |||
Turk Shahis | Starting 5th Century King Khingala [7] | Kapisa Kabul, Eastern Afghanistan, Gandhara North-West Frontier Province, Peshawar few regions of Punjab | |||
Hindu Shahi | Closing years of the tenth and the early eleventh century. Jayapala defeated by Mahmud [8] in 1013 Kabuls last Shahi ruler [9] |
Gandhara overrun by Mahmud . [11] Kabul valley | |||
Zunbils | Zunbils deposed by Ya'qub-i Laith Saffari first Saffarid ruler in 870 AD [12] | Zabulistan Kandahar. [13] |
Intothefire ( talk) 16:36, 6 February 2010 (UTC) Intothefire ( talk) 13:34, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
Region | Conquered by | Date |
---|---|---|
Ghazni Province | Saffarid In 683 AD, Arab armies brought Islam to the area and attempted to conquer the capital of Ghazni but the local tribes fiercely resisted.Its resistance was so famed that Yaqub Saffari (840-879) from Zaranj made an example of Ghazni when he ranged the vast region conquering in the name of Islam. The city was completely destroyed by the Saffarids in 869 AD. [14] | 869 |
Balkh | Samanids take Balkh [15] | 900 AD |
Ghor | Mahmud of Ghazni [16] defeats Ibn Suri | 1010 |
Zamindawar |
|
Late 9th early 10th century |
Bamian |
|
Late 9th and again late 10th centuries [19] |
Kandahar |
|
10th and early 11th |
Nuristan Province |
|
19th century |
Intothefire ( talk) 17:56, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
Hi user Ariana310
Would you also like to look at the order of Shahis and Ghaznavids on the template
...the Ghaznavids defeated the Shahis
but in the template the dates are showing a seperation of about 3 centuries ,
I think this needs correction as well .Cheers
Intothefire (
talk) 17:58, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
Actually, in the Template, it is meant the first period of the Kabul Shahi dynasty. The first dynasty of Kabul Shahi is also known as Ratbel-Shahan, which ruled parts of Afghanistan between 565 CE to 670 CE with Kapisa, Kabul and Kandahar as their capitals. However, the term "Kabul Shahi" has also been used for "Hindu Shahi" when they had Udabhandapura as their capital, because Hindu Shahis were their descendants. So Ghaznavids defeated Hindu Shahis, not the early Kabul Shahis.
In the Template, we should only keep the record for the early Kabul Shahis. We are not interested in the later Hindu Shahis because they ruled outside the current Afghan territories. Ariana ( talk) 21:40, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
Hi Ariana310 ,
“ | 'Yamini turks had claimed their descent from Shahyar , the last of the Parthian ruler who was killed in 637AD in the battle of Cadesia . The family had migrated to Turkistan and after three generations had passed on as Turks . Their founder Sabuktgin had come into the service of Alptgin , a Samanid governor of Turkistan . The latter had captured Ghazni and settled there in 963AD . He raised Sabuktgin to the position of a general .After the death of Alptgin in 966 AD , Balktgin the commander of Turkish troops succeeded him who was later succeeded by Pirai a slave . The latter was a cruel king and the people of Zabul invited Abu Ali Lawik son of the last ruler of Zabul who in alliance with the Shahis of Udabhanda (who then ruled from Kabul to Punjab with Udabhanda as capital marched to recover Ghazni .On the way at Charkh ,Sabuktgin defeated them and became a hero . [22] | ” |
Alptigin seized Zabulistan together with its capital Ghazni from Amir Abu Bakr Lawik in c AD 963 , and there established an indipendent kingdom .He raised Sabuktigin to the position of a general . [23] Intothefire ( talk) 06:45, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
Udabhanda was the capital of the Shahi dynasty . The Shahi ( Devanagari शाही) also called Shahiya, [24] [25] dynasties ruled portions of the Kabul Valley (in eastern Afghanistan) and the old province of Gandhara (northern Pakistan and Kashmir) from the decline of the Kushan Empire in third century to the early ninth century. [25] The kingdom was known as Kabul-shahan or Ratbel-shahan from (565 - 670 CE) when they had their capitals in Kapisa and Kabul, and later Udabhandapura (also known as Hund) [26] for its new capital. The term Shahi is the title of the rulers, likely related to the Kushan form Shao [25] or Persian form Shah and refers to a series of 60 rulers probably descended from the Kushans or Turks (Turshkas). [25] They are split into two eras the Buddhist Turk-Shahis and the later Hindu-Shahis with the change-over occurring sometime around 870.
Intothefire ( talk) 07:04, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
Therefore Considering all the references provided above , this template needs immediate correction , the Shahis were contemporarys of the Ghaznavids and it is ridiculous for the timeline to show a 3 century interval . Lets correct this to begin with immediately ....hope you agree.
Intothefire (
talk) 07:17, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
“ | The kingdom was known as "Kabul Shahi" (Kabul-shāhān or Ratbél-shāhān in Persian کابلشاهان یا رتبیل شاهان) between 565 and 879 [27] CE when they had Kapisa and Kabul as their capitals, and later as " Hindu Shahi" when they moved their capital to Udabhandapura (also known as Hund) [28]. | ” |
Sorry, I did not get what exactly you want to say. Let's consolidate our points:
Yes of course, the template needs an improvement, especially the pre- Achaemenid era. But specifically concerning the Kabul Shahis, I don't see any conflict. Ariana ( talk) 22:21, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
Please use easy to understand titles. "Islamic period" ending in 1747 is giving impression to people who don't know Afghanistan's history that Islam came and gone, "Post 18th century" is also confusing sometimes because people think of 1800 or 19th century. Modern history or Modern era is better, I believe.-- AllahLovesYou ( talk) 23:31, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
This template is about the History of Afghanistan, any image placed in the template must be clearly about Afghanistan. Something that Afghanistan is well known for. I have added an image of one of the giant Buddhas of Bamiyan as this is the first thing that comes into people's mind when they think of the history of Afghanistan. Ksmdr ( talk) 09:52, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
In fact, for the next fifteen centuries, these two colossal Buddhas of Bamiyan, the largest figures of their kind in the world — 55 meters and 38 meters high — epitomized the glory, splendor, stability and prosperity of Afghanistan during its golden age – a civilization in harmony with its neighbours. Soon I will try to create few examples of photo collages, representing the prehistory, the ancient, the medieval and the modern history of Afghanistan. Regarding the first two images, they are not copyrighted and I took them from the website 'Cultural Training Resources', which belongs to US Department of Defense -- Artacoana ( talk) 20:01, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
I changed the image to Mazar-i-Sharif's blue mosque. Using the Buddha's is a bit pretentious because these don't in any way represent modern Afghan society; their only claim to fame is that they were blown-up by the Taliban. On the other hand, the blue mosque represents a famous, beautiful building which represents the modern Muslim society of the country.-- 58.106.233.55 ( talk) 10:29, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
Arachosia alone does not represent what is today known as Afghanistan, but rather a small part (province) of the ruling empires and dynasties. (See the map) Afghanistan, due it's geostrategic position in Central Asia and on the ancient trade routes, such as the Silk Road, and migration of various peoples throughout its history, has always been a multi-ethnic and multicultural country. The identity of this country doesn't represent only one particular ethnic group, but rather all the ethnic groups together living in this country for centuries. Pashtuns are not the owners of this country, neither it's their original homeland. In fact, there is no single trace of Pashtuns' presence in the history of this country, before the 17th century. Moreover, Wikipedia is not the place for racial and ethnic bigotry, as this is a clear violation of Neutral point of view policy of Wikipedia.-- Artacoana ( talk) 22:31, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
Dear Ksmdr, I have nothing against Pashtuns. Apparently, you haven't got my point. The history of our country doesn't only cover the modern period, ie. from 1747 and the establishment of the first Pashtun rule in our country and onward. The history also include the ancient and medieval periods, when Pashtuns were not ruling our land, but it was the Persians, Macedonians, Scythians, Huns and Indians during the ancient times and their descendants, the Tajiks together with the Turks during the medieval times. The ancient names of ethnics are not relevant here. The name "Apridae" that you mention doesn't necessarily mean that they were the ancestors of the Afridi tribe of the Pashtuns, otherwise, the Hebrew tribe of Ephraim may also be a reference to the Afridi tribe, who have never ruled this land. Furthermore, the name "Afghanistan" is not relevant here, but it's the history of the LAND that matters. There has never been a ruling dynasty or empire with their capitals in Arachosia. In fact, Bactria is much better candid, due to it's center and origin of Greco-Bactrian and Kushan rule. But these small provinces alone are not relevant either. However, "Ariana" was the name of a country, including these provinces, as mentioned by the ancient Greek and Roman geographers. There are also countless references of the geographers of the Islamic period to the name "Khorasan", including Balkh, Tukharestan, Kabulistan, Zabulistan, Herat, Sistan, Samangan, and many more. We are not here to initiate an edit waring, based on ethnic conflicts. I'm going to change the template, leaving the country names "Ariana" and "Khorasan" on the top, and mentioning the regional and provincial names underneath. I'm looking forward to hearing your opinion about this.-- Artacoana ( talk) 00:33, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
I'm not advancing the Persian identity and heritage over the Pashtun's, as you can see from my edits on 'History of Afghanistan (pre-Islamic period) in Persian Wikipedia. The reason I removed empires and names of places from the article ' Herat' is because I'm worried about a barbaric and false belief among some Pashtuns that consider themselves as the true owners of Afghanistan and see other ethnic groups as 'the immigrants'! This is totally unfair and wrong! Today it is commonly accepted that the Tajiks are the oldest inhabitants of this country and have made an outstanding contributions in various domains of our cultural heritage (See people like Avicenna, Biruni, Rumi, and hundreds more.) But these Pashtuns ignore this fact, simply because they see it as a threat to their rule over them. The same indication, when you included Arachosia in the template, ignoring Bactria, simply because it lies to the north of the country where it's inhabited by non-Pashtuns, mostly by the Tajiks.
I'm not saying this to provoke hatred towards my Pashtun fellow-country-folk in general. I only hate this particular belief that have resulted in ethnic cleansing of some of our people, and stealing their lands. Today, all we need is respect, tolerance and acceptance of each other's identity and culture and unity to rebuild our war-torn country. We need to realise the fact that the centrality of our country in the ancient trade routes created a rich mosaic of cultures and ethnics. In fact, the only successful and thriving dynasties were those who respected this multi-ethnic society and showed tolerance toward cultural and religious differences, cultural and artistic thrive and economic prosperity during the Kushans were an example. In contrast, those totalitarian intolerant forces such as the Arabs and most recently the Taliban failed. I hope you have understood my point of view. I don't hate anyone, nor I'm trying to downgrade any culture in my country.-- Artacoana ( talk) 21:59, 20 August 2011 (UTC)