This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Is it just me, or do other people find this box way too big and hard to read? I don't believe that footer boxes have to be complete --- I've found that they are more effective if they contain just a few links to core articles, then other links to exhaustive list articles.
My concrete minimalist proposal is:
California | |
---|---|
History | Geography | Largest Cities | Counties | Ecology | Universities | List of topics |
The exact list of links can be changed, but I would like to move to a minimalist footer.
Comments? -- hike395 07:36, 6 May 2004 (UTC)
While I don't have much of an opinion on hike395's proposal, I'll say again that the current footer is too ambitious. It lists too many items and therefore takes up too much space. Either split it into three - one each for regions, cities, and counties - or reduce it to three links like how Template:nationalflags has it. -- Jia ng 22:51, 7 May 2004 (UTC)
California | |
---|---|
Geography | Largest Cities | Counties |
Largest Cities and Counties in California | |
---|---|
Cities: Anaheim | Bakersfield | Fremont | Fresno | Glendale | Huntington Beach | Long Beach | Los Angeles | Modesto | Oakland | Oxnard | Riverside | Sacramento | San Bernardino | San Diego | San Francisco | San Jose | Santa Ana | Stockton | |
Counties: Alameda | Alpine | Amador | Butte | Calaveras | Colusa | Contra Costa | Del Norte | El Dorado | Fresno | Glenn | Humboldt | Imperial | Inyo | Kern | Kings | Lake | Lassen | Los Angeles | Madera | Marin | Mariposa | Mendocino | Merced | Modoc | Mono | Monterey | Napa | Nevada | Orange | Placer | Plumas | Riverside | Sacramento | San Benito | San Bernardino | San Diego | San Francisco | San Joaquin | San Luis Obispo | San Mateo | Santa Barbara | Santa Clara | Santa Cruz | Shasta | Sierra | Siskiyou | Solano | Sonoma | Stanislaus | Sutter | Tehama | Trinity | Tulare | Tuolumne | Ventura | Yolo | Yuba | |
Go ahead and change it.-- Jia ng 19:26, 11 May 2004 (UTC)
See my question at Category talk:California and respond there. Thanks. Elf | Talk 17:48, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Hello to Jengod:
I like most of what you've done with the California footer (even if it is even more humungous), but some of your urban areas are rather strange. Most Bay Area residents wouldn't consider Redwood City, San Francisco, and Richmond to be a single metro area (as opposed to, say, San Bernardino and Ontario), because the cities are so far apart and so different.
-- Coolcaesar 00:40, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Okay, I'm so exasperated, I spent some time tonight and made the template consistent with the List of urbanized areas in California (by population) page. Of course, I admit that the only problem with the current template is that it doesn't mention famous communities that are away from major urban areas, like Santa Cruz or Barstow. If we need that in the template (it is probably big enough as is), I would prefer to have those in a new row, so that we can keep the "Important suburbs" list in this template consistent with the List of urbanized areas in California page and with the California page itself. -- Coolcaesar 02:30, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
Instead of "Central Suburbs" (which is kind of vague and in some cases misleading, for cities whose "centrality" is arguable), which implies the closest, most central suburbs to a major city, how about a term like "Significant suburbs?" Also, as many of these cities are not traditional suburbs or bedroom communities but postsuburban "edge cities," it's debatable whether the term "suburb" should be used at all. What is Irvine really a "suburb" of? Or Ventura or Santa Cruz for that matter?! Svenska84 01:40, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
I originally used "Important suburbs" when I modified the template on the 14th and someone else changed it 6 hours later without explaining why on the talk page. Also, Santa Cruz was not originally on the template after my edit---it was added by someone else. I had edited the list of suburbs on the template to match the List of urbanized areas in California page. But now it seems people are finding my changes just as annoying as I found the earlier grouping of San Francisco with Richmond and Redwood City!
Perhaps another way to approach this is to have lists on the template for important cities, important suburbs, and important towns.
Finally, I agree that Santa Cruz isn't really a suburb of anything, but I believe that both Ventura and Irvine are both suburbs of Los Angeles — they both began as bedroom communities from L.A. and people still do commute from both of them to L.A., though not perhaps as many in the past due to the congestion on the Ventura and Golden State Freeways. -- Coolcaesar 04:25, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
I would say especially for Irvine, which is relatively loosely in the LA area and despite its early years as more of a bedroom community, that at this point it has nearly defined the concept of "Edge City" which creates its own jobs and wealth to the point that it becomes a major regional magnet itself. My friends who commute from San Diego to Irvine are painfully aware of that :) Anyway, I don't want to split hairs over its terminology, I just think that under a list of suburbs, some cities like Irvine and Ventura don't neatly fit into the ideas that the name "suburb" traditionally conjures up. Svenska84 07:52, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
I don't see why only suburbs should be listed, especially when some much more important cities, i.e. all of the non-suburbaban cities of size 10k-500k+ listed on List of urbanized areas in California (by population) are not. Which is more important, Lincoln or Santa Anita or say, Santa Rosa, Redding, or even Eureka? "Important cities" is really a misnomer here, if it only lists cities that (at least by Census reckoning) play second fiddle to major metropolitian areas. Perhaps it would be better to list cities rather than "urban areas" and have some threshhold, say 50,000 or 100,000 regardless of the cities' membership in some larger unit. I don't think anyone would complain too much if San Francisco, Oakland, and San Jose or LA and Long Beach are separated. (The categories are somewhat arbitrary anyway: What magical dividing line separates LA from Santa Ana-Aneheim-Irvine, for example?) Speight 01:37, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
Template:California/Temp was created and only edited on 25 May 2005 by User:Jengod. Is that page still needed, or can it be deleted? BlankVerse ∅ 16:07, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
I will be deleting some communities from other significant communities soon. I do not think the following communities are notable enough to justify their mention in the main California template:
And I'm thinking about adding the following better-known communities:
Anyone have any issues with my proposed changes? -- Coolcaesar 02:29, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
I reverted these changes because the official urban areas as defined by the Census Bureau make no sense. Furthermore, no one but RJN has any problem with the template, as indicated by the rather small number of edits this fall. Please discuss your issues with the template to develop a consensus before making such drastic changes. -- Coolcaesar 02:17, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
I changed the "largest" cities and "other significant communities" to metropolitan areas and metropolitan divisions which are officially defined the U.S. Census and the OMB as of the November 2004 definition. Go look all these terms up if you don't know what they mean. Metropolitan areas and metropolitan divisions give a better crossection of what the major cities actually are. Many of the cities included in the list are suburbs. The changes that you have made in the past after Jengod are to your POV and judgements whether each city is "large," "small," or if they are "important" or not. Using defined metropolitan areas and metropolitan divisions are neutral and official. This way, you or other people can't delete cities or keep adding additional ones because everyone wants their hometown represented. Putting cities in "large cities" is POV. Who is to say which one is "large" or deserve enough to be large or not. Then to put certain cities in "other significant communities" is major POV. How do you define which cities are "important" and/or "significant"? Most of the cities added/deleted in this section have been done by you. With this section of "other significant communities," people like you will keep on coming and adding things in, later there will be a lot of "significant" communities as you would call it.
I also spent about 2 hours on the work you have REVERTED!
Here is an example of combined statistical areas, metropolitan areas, and metropolitan divisions defined by OMB and used by the Census and government. However, CSAs are not used in this template or by anyone—statistical purposes only.
On the template, I included both metropolitan areas and divisions above, which cross references both large and "important" cities if you will. The cities shown in metropolitan divisions are defined as "important" and "significant" by the government in regards to economic and culture. These are defined. The cities are have deleted/added in the past are not defined and are to your POV of what you consider or don't consider "important" or "significant".
By using defined metropolitan areas and metropolitan divisions (note: not all metropolitan areas have metropolitan divisions), it is official and no one can argue their stay on the template or not. From what you have on the template, anyone can argue.
Also, I noticed that Jengod used to have metropolitan areas defined by the U.S. Census not too long ago until you went and changed it. From what I see, her version and my version have been on there longer than yours and no one else besides you question the metropolitan areas.
Also, I don't appreciate you making rude comments regarding what Jengod had done to this template. If you don't know what I mean by this, I will give you an example. On November 22, you left an edit summary of "Modifying this mess so that it makes more sense". Also, on July 13th, you went and modified a lot of Jengod's work with this edit summary, "(Editing this mess to match List of urbanized areas in California (by population))". This is an attack on Jengod's edit to the template by her using defined metropolitan areas that you don't agree with. You were calling her edits a mess. To me, her edits were legitimate because she used correct and official sources for the areas. Your definition of what cities are "large" or "important" are purely your POV and are not official.
You are also rude to other editors as well, on December 25, you left an edit summary of "(Revert idiotic edit, de facto is more concise and says the same thing!)" on the United States article. I don't know who you think you are, but you need to change your behavior in regards to other editors and leaving edit summaries.
So, in summary, the metropolitan areas have been on there for a while until Jengod stopped editing this template and you took over. You think this template is yours and revolves around you. You didn't just reverted my version to the one before, but you reverted changes made by Branddobbe as well because you don't like the fact that the user added an entry that you don't agree with. I am putting a stop to you taking ownership of this template right now. My version and Jengod's version of the template are NPOV and can be backed up with sources. Your version can not. Jengod doesn't seem to mind my "major" revision. Also, the Census designation doesn't make any sense is your POV. The fact that it is official is what really matters. User 68.65.220.243 didn't mind my revision either and edited additionally after I changed the template by bolding counties in excess of 1 million population. Of course you went and reverted all edits back to your last version. When I edited this template, I knew you were going to have a problem with it just by looking at the edit history. I knew you were going to revert my changes. I was prepared for this. I did it anyway for the sake of this template, the accuracies, NPOV, and all other California related articles.
You have reverted good faith edits done by me that I spent about 2 hours and other editors. I didn't revert any of your edits from the past—I only made changes to them. Your "important communities" are still in the new version—presented in a different and correct manner to cross reference important cities/suburbs and metropolitan areas. Go read United States metropolitan area. It might be "ridiculous" to you but defined metropolitan areas and divisions are NPOV and are official!
Reversion should only be done when there is vandalism! My changes and other people's changes were not malicious or vandalism. So you are telling me that if I or anyone want to edit this template, we have to ask for your permission? You do not own this template and permission or authorization from you is not needed. Everyone is free to edit this template as long as it can be referenced and NPOV. All of your edits on this template are POV to your definition of what is considered "important" or not/which cities or your hometown should be or not be on it!
What are your sources for which cities are "large" and/or "important". If you can provide sources, then I will revert to your POV definition of which cities are "big" and "important"—which are all arbitrary. I have plenty of sources from articles within wikipedia, other sites governmental/economic related sites, and the U.S. Census and its 2004 November definition of metropolitan area designation names.
Tell me, what is so weird about Los Angeles-Long Beach-Glendale (metropolitan division) being together? Also, Santa Ana-Anaheim-Irvine (metropolitan division)? Makes good cross-references and representation of a "large" cities and "important" communities to me! ...and Riverside-San Bernardino-Ontario (metropolitan area)? Another good cross-references of a "large" city and "important" "communities" around it!
I or other editors do not need your approval/permission/authorization to do a legitimate/factual edit with references all over the place! Also, my edits to the template were not "drastic" like you said. It was just simply arranging/catagorizing cities in a different/non-controversial/NPOV manner. How was it drastic? That is your opinion. If others thought it was "drastic," they would have reverted or left some can of comment on my talk page already. Again, I was expecting you to react this way—not a surprise at all.
I would be happy to enlighten you with CSAs, MSAs, and MDs if you need further explanation or clarification.
RJN 11:35, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
Wikipedia:WikiProject U.S. states/state templates lists and displays all 50 U.S. state (and additional other) templates. It potentially can be used for ideas and standardization. // MrD9 07:14, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
To a newbie or someone stumbling on this template for the very first time, it is very unclear as to why specific metropolitan areas and counties are bolded. Therefore, if nobody objects, I might remove them. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 21:03, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
While I agree that a couple of valleys did need to be added (notably Salinas and Victor), I am contesting all of Geomeister's other edits. First of all, nearly all of the added areas are already included within larger areas already mentioned in the Regions section. For example, the Sonoma Valley is part of Wine Country. Second, SanSan and Tech Coast reek of original research, in violation of Wikipedia core policies. See Wikipedia:No original research, Wikipedia:Verifiability, Wikipedia:Neutral point of view, and Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not. As a lifelong Californian, I have never seen those terms used by the L.A. Times, the S.F. Chronicle, the San Diego Union-Tribune, or the San Jose Mercury News. Such odd terms need to be substantiated by citations to published, verifiable sources. Even made-up words can be used on Wikipedia, but we need citations to sources to substantiate them, as I did for Wexis. If no one defends those edits, I'm reverting them in a few weeks.-- Coolcaesar 03:00, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
I cut Chico out (as it does not strike me as a metropolitan area, as the editors above have discussed). If someone wants to re-insert, that's fine. I also added the Walnut Creek-Concord-Antioch listing as it appears there was not a listing addressing the exponentially growing communities of Concord, Antioch, and Brentwood. Because Walnut Creek is the most recognizable city of inner East Bay portion of Contra Costa County (and appears to be the cultural and economic hub of that particular region), I included it with Concord and Antioch. Please discuss this and any possible changes (and the reasons for them) here. Thanks. NoRCaLD503 17:50, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
There is currently an ongoing discussion regarding standardization of state templates (primarily regarding layout and styling) at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject U.S. states/state templates. An effort was made earlier this year to standardize Canadian province templates (which mostly succeeded). Lovelac7 and I have already begun standardizing all state templates. If you have any concerns, they should be directed toward the discussion page for state template standardization. Thanks! — Webdinger BLAH | SZ 22:38, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
Don't know about anyone else, but I think the bright gold we're using here (and in every county template) is waaaaay too saturated. It should be toned down to something more like the Delaware template or West Virginia or even (if you still want a bright gold) New Jersey. As it stands it's hard to look at, and makes all the California-related pages stand out too much. I don't think a template such as this should be distracting from the main content, and this one sure is right now. All opposed? (Also, is there any way to mass change all the counties or is it a manual thing? Thanks) trisweb ( Talk) 05:29, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
I just acted boldly and changed the color of the template..so if it is for the worse, just revert..I didn't like the first color as it appeared like the fool of new messages.-- Alnokta 00:55, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
smile.svg-- Alnokta 14:31, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
I recently created an new SVG for the Flag of California. The new version is designed to give a more accurate depiction of the bear. In particular, I attempted to get the textures and shapes as accurate as possible. The position of the star and size and proportions of the bear are compliant with the official flag code. To create the shading effect on the bear, I used an actual California Flag as a reference. The colors used in this image are also the official shades of red, brown and green (unfortunately, manufacturers rarely attempt to get the colors correct).
Anyway, I would like to hear your opinions on the changes ... and if we should use this image rather than the current one. Perhaps someone could replace the existing file on Wikimedia Commons (I created an account, but it is far too new). I also added this topic to the
California discussion. Thanks for your time.-
DevinCook (
talk) 10:51, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
This template has a "show/hide" function so that it does not present its bulk unless requested. The template "ElectionsCA" sorely needs a similar function. Can anyone please add this? I had to move the template call to the bottom of the article "Politics of California]] to compensate for this lack. Display of these follows. (Please remove when fixed) Thank you, Leonard G. ( talk) 16:56, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Is it just me, or do other people find this box way too big and hard to read? I don't believe that footer boxes have to be complete --- I've found that they are more effective if they contain just a few links to core articles, then other links to exhaustive list articles.
My concrete minimalist proposal is:
California | |
---|---|
History | Geography | Largest Cities | Counties | Ecology | Universities | List of topics |
The exact list of links can be changed, but I would like to move to a minimalist footer.
Comments? -- hike395 07:36, 6 May 2004 (UTC)
While I don't have much of an opinion on hike395's proposal, I'll say again that the current footer is too ambitious. It lists too many items and therefore takes up too much space. Either split it into three - one each for regions, cities, and counties - or reduce it to three links like how Template:nationalflags has it. -- Jia ng 22:51, 7 May 2004 (UTC)
California | |
---|---|
Geography | Largest Cities | Counties |
Largest Cities and Counties in California | |
---|---|
Cities: Anaheim | Bakersfield | Fremont | Fresno | Glendale | Huntington Beach | Long Beach | Los Angeles | Modesto | Oakland | Oxnard | Riverside | Sacramento | San Bernardino | San Diego | San Francisco | San Jose | Santa Ana | Stockton | |
Counties: Alameda | Alpine | Amador | Butte | Calaveras | Colusa | Contra Costa | Del Norte | El Dorado | Fresno | Glenn | Humboldt | Imperial | Inyo | Kern | Kings | Lake | Lassen | Los Angeles | Madera | Marin | Mariposa | Mendocino | Merced | Modoc | Mono | Monterey | Napa | Nevada | Orange | Placer | Plumas | Riverside | Sacramento | San Benito | San Bernardino | San Diego | San Francisco | San Joaquin | San Luis Obispo | San Mateo | Santa Barbara | Santa Clara | Santa Cruz | Shasta | Sierra | Siskiyou | Solano | Sonoma | Stanislaus | Sutter | Tehama | Trinity | Tulare | Tuolumne | Ventura | Yolo | Yuba | |
Go ahead and change it.-- Jia ng 19:26, 11 May 2004 (UTC)
See my question at Category talk:California and respond there. Thanks. Elf | Talk 17:48, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Hello to Jengod:
I like most of what you've done with the California footer (even if it is even more humungous), but some of your urban areas are rather strange. Most Bay Area residents wouldn't consider Redwood City, San Francisco, and Richmond to be a single metro area (as opposed to, say, San Bernardino and Ontario), because the cities are so far apart and so different.
-- Coolcaesar 00:40, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Okay, I'm so exasperated, I spent some time tonight and made the template consistent with the List of urbanized areas in California (by population) page. Of course, I admit that the only problem with the current template is that it doesn't mention famous communities that are away from major urban areas, like Santa Cruz or Barstow. If we need that in the template (it is probably big enough as is), I would prefer to have those in a new row, so that we can keep the "Important suburbs" list in this template consistent with the List of urbanized areas in California page and with the California page itself. -- Coolcaesar 02:30, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
Instead of "Central Suburbs" (which is kind of vague and in some cases misleading, for cities whose "centrality" is arguable), which implies the closest, most central suburbs to a major city, how about a term like "Significant suburbs?" Also, as many of these cities are not traditional suburbs or bedroom communities but postsuburban "edge cities," it's debatable whether the term "suburb" should be used at all. What is Irvine really a "suburb" of? Or Ventura or Santa Cruz for that matter?! Svenska84 01:40, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
I originally used "Important suburbs" when I modified the template on the 14th and someone else changed it 6 hours later without explaining why on the talk page. Also, Santa Cruz was not originally on the template after my edit---it was added by someone else. I had edited the list of suburbs on the template to match the List of urbanized areas in California page. But now it seems people are finding my changes just as annoying as I found the earlier grouping of San Francisco with Richmond and Redwood City!
Perhaps another way to approach this is to have lists on the template for important cities, important suburbs, and important towns.
Finally, I agree that Santa Cruz isn't really a suburb of anything, but I believe that both Ventura and Irvine are both suburbs of Los Angeles — they both began as bedroom communities from L.A. and people still do commute from both of them to L.A., though not perhaps as many in the past due to the congestion on the Ventura and Golden State Freeways. -- Coolcaesar 04:25, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
I would say especially for Irvine, which is relatively loosely in the LA area and despite its early years as more of a bedroom community, that at this point it has nearly defined the concept of "Edge City" which creates its own jobs and wealth to the point that it becomes a major regional magnet itself. My friends who commute from San Diego to Irvine are painfully aware of that :) Anyway, I don't want to split hairs over its terminology, I just think that under a list of suburbs, some cities like Irvine and Ventura don't neatly fit into the ideas that the name "suburb" traditionally conjures up. Svenska84 07:52, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
I don't see why only suburbs should be listed, especially when some much more important cities, i.e. all of the non-suburbaban cities of size 10k-500k+ listed on List of urbanized areas in California (by population) are not. Which is more important, Lincoln or Santa Anita or say, Santa Rosa, Redding, or even Eureka? "Important cities" is really a misnomer here, if it only lists cities that (at least by Census reckoning) play second fiddle to major metropolitian areas. Perhaps it would be better to list cities rather than "urban areas" and have some threshhold, say 50,000 or 100,000 regardless of the cities' membership in some larger unit. I don't think anyone would complain too much if San Francisco, Oakland, and San Jose or LA and Long Beach are separated. (The categories are somewhat arbitrary anyway: What magical dividing line separates LA from Santa Ana-Aneheim-Irvine, for example?) Speight 01:37, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
Template:California/Temp was created and only edited on 25 May 2005 by User:Jengod. Is that page still needed, or can it be deleted? BlankVerse ∅ 16:07, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
I will be deleting some communities from other significant communities soon. I do not think the following communities are notable enough to justify their mention in the main California template:
And I'm thinking about adding the following better-known communities:
Anyone have any issues with my proposed changes? -- Coolcaesar 02:29, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
I reverted these changes because the official urban areas as defined by the Census Bureau make no sense. Furthermore, no one but RJN has any problem with the template, as indicated by the rather small number of edits this fall. Please discuss your issues with the template to develop a consensus before making such drastic changes. -- Coolcaesar 02:17, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
I changed the "largest" cities and "other significant communities" to metropolitan areas and metropolitan divisions which are officially defined the U.S. Census and the OMB as of the November 2004 definition. Go look all these terms up if you don't know what they mean. Metropolitan areas and metropolitan divisions give a better crossection of what the major cities actually are. Many of the cities included in the list are suburbs. The changes that you have made in the past after Jengod are to your POV and judgements whether each city is "large," "small," or if they are "important" or not. Using defined metropolitan areas and metropolitan divisions are neutral and official. This way, you or other people can't delete cities or keep adding additional ones because everyone wants their hometown represented. Putting cities in "large cities" is POV. Who is to say which one is "large" or deserve enough to be large or not. Then to put certain cities in "other significant communities" is major POV. How do you define which cities are "important" and/or "significant"? Most of the cities added/deleted in this section have been done by you. With this section of "other significant communities," people like you will keep on coming and adding things in, later there will be a lot of "significant" communities as you would call it.
I also spent about 2 hours on the work you have REVERTED!
Here is an example of combined statistical areas, metropolitan areas, and metropolitan divisions defined by OMB and used by the Census and government. However, CSAs are not used in this template or by anyone—statistical purposes only.
On the template, I included both metropolitan areas and divisions above, which cross references both large and "important" cities if you will. The cities shown in metropolitan divisions are defined as "important" and "significant" by the government in regards to economic and culture. These are defined. The cities are have deleted/added in the past are not defined and are to your POV of what you consider or don't consider "important" or "significant".
By using defined metropolitan areas and metropolitan divisions (note: not all metropolitan areas have metropolitan divisions), it is official and no one can argue their stay on the template or not. From what you have on the template, anyone can argue.
Also, I noticed that Jengod used to have metropolitan areas defined by the U.S. Census not too long ago until you went and changed it. From what I see, her version and my version have been on there longer than yours and no one else besides you question the metropolitan areas.
Also, I don't appreciate you making rude comments regarding what Jengod had done to this template. If you don't know what I mean by this, I will give you an example. On November 22, you left an edit summary of "Modifying this mess so that it makes more sense". Also, on July 13th, you went and modified a lot of Jengod's work with this edit summary, "(Editing this mess to match List of urbanized areas in California (by population))". This is an attack on Jengod's edit to the template by her using defined metropolitan areas that you don't agree with. You were calling her edits a mess. To me, her edits were legitimate because she used correct and official sources for the areas. Your definition of what cities are "large" or "important" are purely your POV and are not official.
You are also rude to other editors as well, on December 25, you left an edit summary of "(Revert idiotic edit, de facto is more concise and says the same thing!)" on the United States article. I don't know who you think you are, but you need to change your behavior in regards to other editors and leaving edit summaries.
So, in summary, the metropolitan areas have been on there for a while until Jengod stopped editing this template and you took over. You think this template is yours and revolves around you. You didn't just reverted my version to the one before, but you reverted changes made by Branddobbe as well because you don't like the fact that the user added an entry that you don't agree with. I am putting a stop to you taking ownership of this template right now. My version and Jengod's version of the template are NPOV and can be backed up with sources. Your version can not. Jengod doesn't seem to mind my "major" revision. Also, the Census designation doesn't make any sense is your POV. The fact that it is official is what really matters. User 68.65.220.243 didn't mind my revision either and edited additionally after I changed the template by bolding counties in excess of 1 million population. Of course you went and reverted all edits back to your last version. When I edited this template, I knew you were going to have a problem with it just by looking at the edit history. I knew you were going to revert my changes. I was prepared for this. I did it anyway for the sake of this template, the accuracies, NPOV, and all other California related articles.
You have reverted good faith edits done by me that I spent about 2 hours and other editors. I didn't revert any of your edits from the past—I only made changes to them. Your "important communities" are still in the new version—presented in a different and correct manner to cross reference important cities/suburbs and metropolitan areas. Go read United States metropolitan area. It might be "ridiculous" to you but defined metropolitan areas and divisions are NPOV and are official!
Reversion should only be done when there is vandalism! My changes and other people's changes were not malicious or vandalism. So you are telling me that if I or anyone want to edit this template, we have to ask for your permission? You do not own this template and permission or authorization from you is not needed. Everyone is free to edit this template as long as it can be referenced and NPOV. All of your edits on this template are POV to your definition of what is considered "important" or not/which cities or your hometown should be or not be on it!
What are your sources for which cities are "large" and/or "important". If you can provide sources, then I will revert to your POV definition of which cities are "big" and "important"—which are all arbitrary. I have plenty of sources from articles within wikipedia, other sites governmental/economic related sites, and the U.S. Census and its 2004 November definition of metropolitan area designation names.
Tell me, what is so weird about Los Angeles-Long Beach-Glendale (metropolitan division) being together? Also, Santa Ana-Anaheim-Irvine (metropolitan division)? Makes good cross-references and representation of a "large" cities and "important" communities to me! ...and Riverside-San Bernardino-Ontario (metropolitan area)? Another good cross-references of a "large" city and "important" "communities" around it!
I or other editors do not need your approval/permission/authorization to do a legitimate/factual edit with references all over the place! Also, my edits to the template were not "drastic" like you said. It was just simply arranging/catagorizing cities in a different/non-controversial/NPOV manner. How was it drastic? That is your opinion. If others thought it was "drastic," they would have reverted or left some can of comment on my talk page already. Again, I was expecting you to react this way—not a surprise at all.
I would be happy to enlighten you with CSAs, MSAs, and MDs if you need further explanation or clarification.
RJN 11:35, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
Wikipedia:WikiProject U.S. states/state templates lists and displays all 50 U.S. state (and additional other) templates. It potentially can be used for ideas and standardization. // MrD9 07:14, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
To a newbie or someone stumbling on this template for the very first time, it is very unclear as to why specific metropolitan areas and counties are bolded. Therefore, if nobody objects, I might remove them. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 21:03, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
While I agree that a couple of valleys did need to be added (notably Salinas and Victor), I am contesting all of Geomeister's other edits. First of all, nearly all of the added areas are already included within larger areas already mentioned in the Regions section. For example, the Sonoma Valley is part of Wine Country. Second, SanSan and Tech Coast reek of original research, in violation of Wikipedia core policies. See Wikipedia:No original research, Wikipedia:Verifiability, Wikipedia:Neutral point of view, and Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not. As a lifelong Californian, I have never seen those terms used by the L.A. Times, the S.F. Chronicle, the San Diego Union-Tribune, or the San Jose Mercury News. Such odd terms need to be substantiated by citations to published, verifiable sources. Even made-up words can be used on Wikipedia, but we need citations to sources to substantiate them, as I did for Wexis. If no one defends those edits, I'm reverting them in a few weeks.-- Coolcaesar 03:00, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
I cut Chico out (as it does not strike me as a metropolitan area, as the editors above have discussed). If someone wants to re-insert, that's fine. I also added the Walnut Creek-Concord-Antioch listing as it appears there was not a listing addressing the exponentially growing communities of Concord, Antioch, and Brentwood. Because Walnut Creek is the most recognizable city of inner East Bay portion of Contra Costa County (and appears to be the cultural and economic hub of that particular region), I included it with Concord and Antioch. Please discuss this and any possible changes (and the reasons for them) here. Thanks. NoRCaLD503 17:50, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
There is currently an ongoing discussion regarding standardization of state templates (primarily regarding layout and styling) at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject U.S. states/state templates. An effort was made earlier this year to standardize Canadian province templates (which mostly succeeded). Lovelac7 and I have already begun standardizing all state templates. If you have any concerns, they should be directed toward the discussion page for state template standardization. Thanks! — Webdinger BLAH | SZ 22:38, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
Don't know about anyone else, but I think the bright gold we're using here (and in every county template) is waaaaay too saturated. It should be toned down to something more like the Delaware template or West Virginia or even (if you still want a bright gold) New Jersey. As it stands it's hard to look at, and makes all the California-related pages stand out too much. I don't think a template such as this should be distracting from the main content, and this one sure is right now. All opposed? (Also, is there any way to mass change all the counties or is it a manual thing? Thanks) trisweb ( Talk) 05:29, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
I just acted boldly and changed the color of the template..so if it is for the worse, just revert..I didn't like the first color as it appeared like the fool of new messages.-- Alnokta 00:55, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
smile.svg-- Alnokta 14:31, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
I recently created an new SVG for the Flag of California. The new version is designed to give a more accurate depiction of the bear. In particular, I attempted to get the textures and shapes as accurate as possible. The position of the star and size and proportions of the bear are compliant with the official flag code. To create the shading effect on the bear, I used an actual California Flag as a reference. The colors used in this image are also the official shades of red, brown and green (unfortunately, manufacturers rarely attempt to get the colors correct).
Anyway, I would like to hear your opinions on the changes ... and if we should use this image rather than the current one. Perhaps someone could replace the existing file on Wikimedia Commons (I created an account, but it is far too new). I also added this topic to the
California discussion. Thanks for your time.-
DevinCook (
talk) 10:51, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
This template has a "show/hide" function so that it does not present its bulk unless requested. The template "ElectionsCA" sorely needs a similar function. Can anyone please add this? I had to move the template call to the bottom of the article "Politics of California]] to compensate for this lack. Display of these follows. (Please remove when fixed) Thank you, Leonard G. ( talk) 16:56, 5 October 2008 (UTC)