This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Annotated link template. |
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Template:Annotated link is permanently
protected from editing because it is a
heavily used or highly visible template. Substantial changes should first be proposed and discussed here on this page. If the proposal is uncontroversial or has been discussed and is supported by
consensus, editors may use {{
edit template-protected}} to notify an administrator or template editor to make the requested edit. Usually, any contributor may edit the template's
documentation to add usage notes or
categories.
Any contributor may edit the template's sandbox. Functionality of the template can be checked using test cases. |
Short descriptions | ||||
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The description includes this: "If a Short description template exists in the targeted article, but is empty, or contains a space, non-breaking space, the word blank, none, null, or other indication that a short description is not appropriate or needed, the output should be an un-annotated link. If it is not, list such cases on the talk page for attention, or fix it if you can." Well, " List of red dwarfs" shows the word "None", when it shouldn't. Eric Kvaalen ( talk) 17:56, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
So, {{ annotated link}} creates a link to an article followed by a transclusion of that page's short description. Simple enough. However, if at a later date, that target article is moved, this template does not follow the ensuing redirection to find the new target (e.g. John Kennedy – President of the United States from 1961 to 1963 ). Is there a way to fix this? — Fourthords | =Λ= | 21:46, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
Is it possible to use this template in a way that doesn't violate MOS:CAPS, i.e. doesn't introduce unnecessary capital letters in words that aren't proper nouns, sentence starts, or acronyms? – Arms & Hearts ( talk) 18:45, 15 July 2022 (UTC)
Black swan theory – Theory of response to surprise events, that there is the second "theory" has a capital T? Since it is essentially a bullet point, surely that is a trivial technical breach that is completely inoffensive? -- John Maynard Friedman ( talk) 18:55, 26 July 2022 (UTC)
The caps look stupid on the Relish artilce. 2404:4404:27B3:6500:C480:79C0:6BBA:1 ( talk) 08:01, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
{{Annotated link|lc=y}}
would change the case. That way the MoS issue could be averted without breaking things elsewhere or needing widespread changes to short descriptions. (I appreciate it's probably no one's top priority, but worth a shot.) –
Arms & Hearts (
talk) 20:31, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
|lc=
parameter. Not sure I have the chops for this but could learn. ~
Kvng (
talk) 16:11, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
|lc=
to the template would be an improvement. A bigger improvement would be starting descriptions with lower case as is done as WikiData. Making that change at this point will produce pain. ~
Kvng (
talk) 17:02, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
|lc=
parameter. I don't have a lot of template experience but am interested in learning. I have just looked and have not found an example for how to lowercase the first letter of a string. Closest I found is
how to lowercase the whole string. ~
Kvng (
talk) 21:33, 15 January 2023 (UTC)
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
06:41, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
08:08, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
|lc=
has been applied?
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
16:31, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
I'm coming here from List of numeral systems#See also, where this template is used a few times and where the Lua script running time is exceeded. I copied that section to my sandbox, and got the same problem: "The time allocated for running scripts has expired", despite the whole page being just eight transclusions of this template. When I view source on that sandbox page, I see:
Transclusion expansion time report (%,ms,calls,template) 100.00% 10073.844 1 -total 99.71% 10044.426 8 Template:Annotated_link 99.59% 10032.270 22 Template:Template_parameter_value
Something appears to be wrong here, but I don't know what it might be. – Jonesey95 ( talk) 04:54, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
{{Template parameter value|Table of bases|Short description|1|1|1}}
works. "Parser profiling data" at the bottom of a preview says "Lua time usage 5.500/10.000 seconds". It fails if there are two identical occurrences (expected since 2×5.5 > 10). I don't know why it's so expensive on
Table of bases.
PrimeHunter (
talk) 00:34, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
I find this template horrible.
Unfortunately, it is has started to become used on many See also sections of pages. But the annotation supplied is often not very suitable for all the different contexts that the See also links are used in. This means that the annotation is not very relevant much of the time, and it is hard to make quick edits of the text in the relevant context. I mean this goes against the principle of a wiki, where text can be continuously improved on in various contexts. Many people probably don't think of this when they use the "Annotated link" template, but in reality it creates a lot of more work for those who come afterwards and want to contribute to improve the text for the given context. Therefore, I propose that this template should be abandoned. It creates more headache than it is good. Sauer202 ( talk) 07:36, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
better is better(chuckle)
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
19:00, 18 January 2023 (UTC)I have added |quote=
to
the sandbox and as can be seen in
the testcases it works just fine. Any objections to pushing this change to the template?
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
18:54, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
|italic=
.|lang=
to automate the fairly long-winded process of adding a {{
lang}} expression and not forgetting to include the nocat=yes
. --
𝕁𝕄𝔽 (
talk) 20:46, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
|emphasize=
(yes; "italic" might actually have been better) too, but realised that {{annotated link|The Man with Two Brains|''The Man with Two Brains''}}
already does it (handling DABs while it's there):
The Man with Two Brains – 1983 film by Carl Reiner|lang=
would require all the {{lang}}
params as well to pull off correctly, right? Well I just started reading the {{lang}}
docs and that's a big "nope" (right now).
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
00:05, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
00:07, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
17:26, 19 January 2023 (UTC){{Annotated link|Jump (Every Little Thing song)|"Jump"}}
{{Annotated link|Jump (Every Little Thing song)|Jump|quote=yes}}
{{Annotated link|Jump (Every Little Thing song)|"Jump"}}
creates:
|quote=
param
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
00:50, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
01:46, 19 January 2023 (UTC) Done let me know if I fudged up somehow.
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
23:00, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
{{
SDlink}} claims to fix a problem with {{annotated link}}
that doesn't appear to exist, so I have started a discussion at
Template talk:SDlink § Redundant? regarding its apparent uselessness, suggesting it should be deleted. Please chime in there.
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
05:35, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
I completely misread and misunderstood that template's purpose; although there is indeed a problem, it should be fixed in this template instead of making and maintaining another.
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
23:39, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
{{annotated link}}
itself —
GhostInTheMachine
talk to me 12:47, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
14:58, 29 January 2023 (UTC)While I was updating the syntax of the few quoted titles I found, I found (who needs Grammarly?) that editors are trying various ways to manipulate the results which itself might need looking at, but on Author, Author (Star Trek: Voyager) there's a case for a simple (ish) insertion (appending the link/prepending the annotation) of a qualification. They've done:
{{annotated link|The Measure of a Man (Star Trek: The Next Generation)|"The Measure of a Man" (''Star Trek: The Next Generation'')}}
and made:
I ran a quick and dirty test with and without an |abbreviation=
and it seemed okay; here's a simple example (sadly there's no short desc (bloody typical)):
{{Annotated link/sandbox|The Measure of a Man (Star Trek: The Next Generation)|The Measure of a Man|quote=yes|insert=(''Star Trek: The Next Generation'')}}
makes:
I'd like other people's thoughts on this. Sorry for the vague; I think my brain just ran out of caffeine.
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
23:26, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
{{Annotated link|The Partisan|quote=yes}} (the cover version by [[Electrelane]] is brilliant)
{{Annotated link/sandbox|The Partisan|quote=yes|insert=(the cover version by [[Electrelane]] is brilliant)}}
{{AnnotatedListOfLinks}}
at all, but will.
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
17:35, 20 January 2023 (UTC){{Annotated links| * [[Thing]] * [[Other thing]] * [[Stuff]] * [[Other stuff]] }}
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
17:51, 20 January 2023 (UTC)I made a module:
Module:GetShortDescription which appears to be working. I tried some more fancy stuff but I couldn't get it to work, so this will grab an explicitly set (by {{short description}}
on the article) short desc, but can't get an implicitly set short desc set by the likes of {{
infobox television episode}}. It will however grab the wikidata desc if asked and allows for fallback. There's a bunch of test setups in the code at the bottom if you feel like testing it.
I'll be dotting the tease and crossing my eyes after some anime and sleep, but it seems like it'll do. It is not for formatting the result; it just gets the result.
Here's an example trying to get the short desc of
Author, Author (Star Trek: Voyager), which has an implicit short desc from {{infobox television episode}}
. It asks for the preferred explicit short desc but will settle for the wikidata desc and to fallback to a provided string if that's not available:
Code: {{Annotated link|Author, Author (Star Trek: Voyager)}}
Result: Author, Author (Star Trek: Voyager) – episode of Star Trek: Voyager (S7 E20)
Code: {{#invoke:GetShortDescription|main|name=Author, Author (Star Trek: Voyager)|prefer=explicit|fallback=a TV episode}}
Result: table
Any comments welcome, as long as you're singing my praises and throwing confetti 😉
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
07:01, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
First draft of Module:Annotated link is done (many more tinkerings required):
Code: {{#invoke:Annotated link|main |name=Confédération Mondiale des Activités Subaquatiques |display=World Underwater Federation |wedge= |quote= |dash= |abbr=CMAS |case=lower |aka=''Confédération Mondiale des Activités Subaquatiques''}}
Result: World Underwater Federation ( CMAS), also known as Confédération Mondiale des Activités Subaquatiques – International organisation for underwater activities
Note the inclusion and effect of |case=
@
Arms & Hearts: 🙂
Okay?
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
20:19, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
𝕁𝕄𝔽 kindly pointed out
on my talk that {{
lang}} handling is not implemented yet in
Module:Annotated link, and they're correct. I have added it to
Module:GetShortDescription so that if wikidata returns a non-English description, it will be formatted with {{lang}}
markup. Work in progress; please give more feedback.
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
00:23, 22 January 2023 (UTC)
Also note; while I'm still working on them, they could do odd things from time to time, e.g. I am about to live test something that will cause all wikidata descriptions to be treated as if French.
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
01:47, 22 January 2023 (UTC)
Just to keep you in the loop; some folks at
Project:Good Article proposal drive 2023 somehow found my GetShortDescription module (I hadn't even written the docs!) and it appears they might need to get implicit descriptions, so I've revisited the issue, and think it might work, but will definitely be undesirable. It will be an option, but will require explicit request, and have a level of interest setting to limit its negative effects where apparently beyond reasonable i.e. it will search in stages, and the invocation will require the stage to which it should search explicitly set. I realise this may seem a little dramatic, but the process of grabbing an implicit description is potentially crippling. I'll be finishing the Annotated link module shortly too, then we can replace the current template code with a nice module invocation.
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
02:38, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
Update on implicit descriptions: looking at the transclusion counts of templates using modules in
Category:Modules that create a short description and a calculator; there are about 650,000 articles potentially affected. That's about 10% of Wikipedia articles. Someone should probably be paying attention to this. Any number of those could have the implicit description overridden by an explicit description. I am continuing development of the module to include the most efficient search for implicit descriptions I can figure out, but it will not be at all useful for {{annotated link}}
, as it will only work if the module is invoked on the article it's searching, so I will put the search for implicit descriptions on the back burner and focus on getting it ready to replace the template code.
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
11:19, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
20:51, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
00:31, 25 January 2023 (UTC)Current state of Module:Annotated link:
Code: {{#invoke:Annotated link|main |name=The Partisan |quote=yes |only=wikidata |desc_first_letter_case=upper |wedge=from the album ''[[Songs from a Room]]'' |aka=La Complainte du partisan |aka_lang=fr }}
Result: " The Partisan", also known as La Complainte du partisan, from the album Songs from a Room – Song composed by Anna Marly with lyrics by Emmanuel d'Astier de La Vigerie performed by Leonard Cohen
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
First draft personal sandboxed cobbled together proof of concept template ignore the title:
Code: {{User:Fred Gandt/sandbox/Get short description|The Partisan|quote=yes|only=wikidata|case=upper|wedge=from the album ''[[Songs from a Room]]''|aka=La Complainte du partisan|al=fr}}
Result: " The Partisan", also known as La Complainte du partisan, from the album Songs from a Room – Song composed by Anna Marly with lyrics by Emmanuel d'Astier de La Vigerie performed by Leonard Cohen
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
23:05, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
With the additional features and functionality, the
Module:Annotated link is ready for evaluation and testing; I'd appreciate assistance with that. It adds <abbr>...</abbr>
semantic markup for |abbr=
, and includes full
foreign language markup functionality. I've not added the module version of the code to this template's sandbox yet (I figured I'd wait for feedback first), but you can see the full extent of the proposed template markup at
User:Fred Gandt/sandbox/Get short description There's a lot of parameters and aliases to control all the features, but the overall layout will be significantly easier to maintain, and in its most basic form, requires no expensive parser functions. Also; don't worry; I'll happily write all the extra documentation 😉
As a direct swap, the results should be only different insofar that previously where this template didn't show a short description, it will show a wikidata description (with the first character case transformed to uppercase by default) if there's one available:
{{annotated link|Author, Author (Star Trek: Voyager)|Author, Author}}
→
Author, Author – episode of Star Trek: Voyager (S7 E20){{User:Fred Gandt/sandbox/Get short description|Author, Author (Star Trek: Voyager)|Author, Author}}
→
Author, Author – episode of Star Trek: Voyager (S7 E20)So, what do we think?
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
00:58, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
I am already in the process of fixing my derp regarding the first character case; lowercase should be the default. I am deeply ashamed and humbly request not be burned at the stake.
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
01:42, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
You can see by the scale of
the unit tests for Module:GetShortDescription, which has only three tested params with limited options, that thorough tests for Module:Annotated link, with twelve test-worthy params (the lang params need only be tested as working or not, since
Module:Lang is responsible, and the params for Module:GetShortDescription are already tested) will be somewhat epic.
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
16:36, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
Module:Annotated link now has
59 test cases and Module:GetShortDescription has
66 test cases (all passed). Let me know if I missed anything?
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
21:09, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
I've added the invocation of Module:Annotated link to the sandbox, and all
the current template test cases are good, although a few more wouldn't hurt.
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
21:26, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
As you may like to see by
the template testcases I have just started to expand; the improvement in accuracy is vastly superior. I have a day of work creating the full suite of tests ahead, so please bare with me.
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
07:34, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
Currently working on filtering even more edge cases so the test cases are showing a few known errors i.e. noreplace
is falling through. I will have it fixed shortly. It is however time for lunch and a walk.
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
11:29, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
Pretty certain Module:GetShortDescription can handle just about anything thrown at it now. I'll carry on updating the template tests in a bit, but I'm knackered.
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
11:32, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
Done and it went rather well. A number of (mostly list) pages are using this template for redlinks which required a quick fix; I will be making a minor adjustment to apply another
Category:Pages displaying redlinks processed by Module:AnnotatedLink for finding inappropriate usage in
MOS:SEEALSO sections (where
WP:REDLINKs should not be placed), but currently no known errors or alarmingMessages. I will be monitoring the situation all this waking day and ongoing while I have breath and an internet connection.
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
11:10, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
{{annotated link|List of missions to the Moon}}
→
List of missions to the Moon
Olivaw-Daneel (
talk) 19:02, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
|fallback=
. If the end result of examining the potentially multiple explicit short descriptions is none. the current setup considers it nil and goes for the next. Technically this is accurate behavior, so no, not a bug. While a Wikipedia page may desire no short description; this is all about annotating links to those pages, so any applicable description we can get our hands on seems fair game, and any editor can kill any inappropriate descriptions with fire by adding |only=explicit
. It's all adjustable individually (I mean literally everything the module can do can be controlled at the template call) and of course the module can be altered or the default behavior changed if desired.|desc_case=
is needed to fix even a |fallback=
; I shall fix that tomorrow; it's been quite the day.
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
19:49, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
14:11, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
none
) or did you mean "none" (as in the article has no SD)?
Because I support using the Wikidata in the latter case. --
𝕁𝕄𝔽 (
talk) 16:11, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
{{short description|none}}
and determines that no other template (other than implicit) is overruling it, it concludes that there is no explicit short description and moves on to whatever is next on its todo list in its feverish effort to create an annotation. If the template tells
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
16:23, 3 February 2023 (UTC)I am adding a filter to express when links should not fallback to a wikidata description (probably |not_wikidata=
) so link titles we know are already likely to explain themselves will need to be manually/explicitly marked as wanting a wikidata description at the translusion i.e. opt-in.
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
09:36, 4 February 2023 (UTC)
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
11:25, 4 February 2023 (UTC)The article may not want a short desc, but the annotation might be served well by another.
I'd be curious to see an example of this? I've only been able to find the opposite, i.e. if editors have marked a short description as none, the wikidata annotation seems redundant:
Architecture of New York City;
Regional variations of barbecue.
Olivaw-Daneel (
talk) 07:54, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
12:23, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
22:20, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
15:26, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
17:07, 7 February 2023 (UTC)Currently watching the new
Category:Pages displaying wikidata descriptions as a fallback to none via Module:Annotated link and
Category:Pages displaying short descriptions matching their page name via Module:Annotated link to see what's actually happening before making any decisions. Good time to put the kettle on I reckon.
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
00:09, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
Overall the addition of filtering, to be revised ongoing, has rendered the quantity of useless fallbacks to very few. I was in the process of working through them but encountered a mean spirited editor and got tired. I'll be plugging away at it again in as many hours as refreshment takes. Why work through them? The more of these we look at, the more we can understand how to improve the results. I've seen plenty of evidence that tamed Wikidata descriptions can be usefall as fallbacks, but the taming will take a little more work and monitoring – which I am doing.
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
06:43, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
As I understand it, Fred has recognised the need to respect explicit SD None and will not override it.This is not true: some special cases have been filtered out, but the default is that explicit SD=none is overriden by Wikidata, despite the two of us expressing opposition to this. FWIW, the code change required to implement this is rather simple - it'd take me a few seconds (delete lines 178–183 here and we're done). For articles with no SD, I don't have a strong opinion and am fine with the current behavior; perhaps it'll entice editors to add more SDs. Olivaw-Daneel ( talk) 21:43, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
22:20, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
I'm not invested in any camp; Wikidata is a potential source of description I'm studying for usefulness and it does come up wanting on occasion. Right now I'm looking at the possibility of filtering out the crappy ones; I'm interested by how relatively few Wikidata descriptions are being displayed and how even fewer there are because of an explicit none. I'm focussed on trying to find patterns to filter that have reliable and desirable effects, but will kill it with fire if it's not working. On the whole, at this early stage, I'd say Wikidata descriptions are occasionally helpful, but predominantly weak. I also realise that the wealth of categories may seem scary or silly (YMMV) but real use cases are the only decent yardstick we have; I've found more often than not that the reason for a page landing in the categories is something that needs fixing at the source, and actually finding these issues is being facilitated by the categorisation, and am considering the possibility of keeping the cats alive in the event that the results are killed.
Specifically Olivaw; one example as requested: Constantine the Great and Christianity
I wouldn't have know who Constantine the Great was without navigation. I admit it's not fabulous, but more importantly than its quality, is that it's just one of thousands of use cases and alone doesn't really tell us anything. The greatest problem we have is not being able to read the implicit short descriptions, and to that end I have exhausted my search for and trials of possible solutions out-of-the-box, but there is still the possibility of recreating the SD that is being dynamically created by e.g. an infobox, by reading the infobox params and doing with them what that infoxbox does; probably a lot of coding but it could work. One example I rather like of Wikidata filling the gap when this happens is for: Author, Author – episode of Star Trek: Voyager (S7 E20)
This description is the same information that the implicit SD applies, just in a different format. There are useful Wikidata descriptions, just maybe not proportionally enough to warrant handling or putting up with the crud.
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
15:13, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
No longer falling back to wikidata if an explicit is none.
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
03:54, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
|red_cat=no
if it's a legit use case.
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
17:24, 2 February 2023 (UTC)One of the things the module does is potentially categorise pages attempting to annotate links to nonexistent pages; just as a head's up; it seems most List of... and Outline of... pages are using the template appropriately (mostly outside See also sections) so am adding the ability to specify when to automatically act as if |red_cat=no
is set explicitly. The module can then be instructed by this template, by providing a list of prefixes e.g |auto_red_cat_no=List of,Outline of
(haven't decided the syntax yet), that for its use cases, on those pages, the categorisation is unlikely useful. So there's a thing.
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
11:29, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
|auto_red_cat_no=List of,Outline of
embedded in your module or do you expect editors to specify it? --
𝕁𝕄𝔽 (
talk) 12:18, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
14:11, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
Done Pages starting with List of and Outline of are now being decategorised and won't be added while the instruction remains in the template code.
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
19:01, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
The list is now "List of#Index of#Outline of#User:#User talk:" and can be adjusted as needed. I think knowing if Drafts contain red link annotations might be useful in-case any passer-by thinks to add it.
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
13:19, 4 February 2023 (UTC)
Short descriptions in biographies typically start with the nationality of the person, which is capitalized as it is a proper noun (see examples at
WP:SDEXAMPLES). {{
Annotated link}} is sometimes used in lists of notable people, like in alumni lists (e.g.,
Norco High School). Given that and given the direction at {{
Short description}} that "Each short description should: ... start with a capital letter
", I question whether it is appropriate for this template to change its default behavior to lowercase short descriptions. Capitalized proper nouns that are already properly capitalized should not require extra steps to maintain that capitalization. Maybe the direction at {{
Short description}} should be changed not to require uppercase or lowercase, but until that happens, I do not think this template should contradict the capitalization already provided except by explicit designation by the editor adding a use of this template. —
Archer1234 (
t·
c) 00:35, 4 February 2023 (UTC)
|desc_case=upper
to several transclusions already and woke with the thought to examine for SDs starting with all upper words (probably abbreviations) but maybe case alteration needs to be opt-in. The result will be that most SDs used as annotations will be improperly starting with an uppercase letter, but at least the ones that should won't be wrong; one of the ones I adjusted started with "islamic".|not_wikidata=
.
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
09:36, 4 February 2023 (UTC)
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
12:56, 4 February 2023 (UTC)The short description of redirects is not displaying correctly like it used to. A couple of examples:
These examples are especially nonsensical since the redirects point to a section in an article on the author of the redirect topic, and the annotated link displays the description of the author instead of the description of the redirect topic. Biogeographist ( talk) 21:33, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
00:14, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
01:46, 12 February 2023 (UTC) Done
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
03:56, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
I am not convinced that the behavior should be to pull the SD from a target when a redirect does not have an explicit SD. My guess is that redirects that target a section or an anchor are rarely appropriate for using the target's SD. Same for redirects for members of a group where the target is the group. Here's an example of the former (target is a section in an article):
{{Annotated link|Godwin Heights High School}}
→
Godwin Heights High School – High school in Wyoming, Michigan, United StatesHere's an example of the latter (redirect is a member of the target):
{{Annotated link|Lauren Willey}}
→
Lauren Willey – Member of American musical duo Double TakeI think it is better for {{ Annotated link}} to show nothing than to rely on the target's SD being appropriate. If someone is adding {{ Annotated link}} to an article for a redirect and no SD is displayed, then they can add an SD to the redirect. — Archer1234 ( t· c) 10:38, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
14:54, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
16:02, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
17:57, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
19:30, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
The category seems to have settled at 1,477 pages; the evaluation begins... (I'm watching
House (TV series) right now though and need the break)
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
22:22, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
@
Fred Gandt: I wonder if it might be easy to add an option disp=it[alic]
? Or something similar? (combine with current quote=yes
?).
Meanwhile I've added a simple example to the template doc. (
Mona Lisa – Painting by Leonardo da Vinci).
Not a show stopper, just a nice to have.
𝕁𝕄𝔽 (
talk) 10:48, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
If this template is used to annotated some links and others are annotated manually, manual sorting of these lists is required. This situation could be improved by adding a manual description override parameter for use in cases where the the WP:SD is deemed not good for the context. See Network_address_translation#See_also for an example of these issues. Using {{ Annotated link}} for all entries with override parameter supplied where needed would make it easy to sort these lists again. ~ Kvng ( talk) 20:54, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
{{
annotated link|Tuvix|"Tuvix"}}
If I used that code, the resulting description is 24th episode of the second season of Star Trek: Voyager
. Anywhere else in the wiki,
even in hatnotes, we'd italicize Star Trek: Voyager. Are short descriptions explicitly exempt from this? Why the incongruity?
I previously asked this at
Wikipedia talk:Short description, and
Jonesey95 (
talk ·
contribs) said, Short descriptions can't have markup in them (see
WP:SDFORMAT), so there is no way to italicize their content properly within the short description. They were never intended to be displayed in articles, as far as I know. Your question may be best asked at
Template talk:Annotated link.
So here I am! —
Fourthords |
=Λ= | 18:48, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
{{
annotated link}}
? —
GhostInTheMachine
talk to me 19:57, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
Robotic mission that deployed the Curiosity rover to Mars in 2012and should be—but isn't—italicizing Curiosity. — Fourthords | =Λ= | 23:47, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
21:20, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
{{annotated link|Tuvix|quote=y}}
is preferable (the quotes are not part of the link this way) and it should be noted that the description for that episode is being grabbed from Wikidata at this time, because the explicit short desc is added to the article by the infobox which makes it unreadable by the module (it's quite complicated).
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
21:31, 9 January 2024 (UTC)The use of the Section link aka slink template results in the '#' character that separates the page name from a section name (i.e. 'Albert Einstein#Life and career') being rendered as the ' § ' characters ('Albert Einstein § Life and career'). The Annotated link template does not do this; I would propose that it be modified to function the same way the Section link template functions. Tfdavisatsnetnet ( talk) 07:01, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
10:43, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
{{
r to section}}
(or {{
r to anchor}}
) and most commonly the only issue is that the redirect article doesn't have its own SD, which is easily rectified. Does that not better deliver the intent of of
Tfdavisatsnetnet's request? --
𝕁𝕄𝔽 (
talk) 10:51, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
{{annotated link|Albert Einstein#Life and career|Albert Einstein § Life and career}}
-->
Albert Einstein § Life and career – German-born physicist (1879–1955)
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
11:20, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
11:28, 16 January 2024 (UTC){{annotated link/sandbox|Albert Einstein#Life and career}}
-->
Albert Einstein § Life and career – German-born physicist (1879–1955)
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
12:55, 17 January 2024 (UTC)This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Annotated link template. |
|
Template:Annotated link is permanently
protected from editing because it is a
heavily used or highly visible template. Substantial changes should first be proposed and discussed here on this page. If the proposal is uncontroversial or has been discussed and is supported by
consensus, editors may use {{
edit template-protected}} to notify an administrator or template editor to make the requested edit. Usually, any contributor may edit the template's
documentation to add usage notes or
categories.
Any contributor may edit the template's sandbox. Functionality of the template can be checked using test cases. |
Short descriptions | ||||
|
|
|
The description includes this: "If a Short description template exists in the targeted article, but is empty, or contains a space, non-breaking space, the word blank, none, null, or other indication that a short description is not appropriate or needed, the output should be an un-annotated link. If it is not, list such cases on the talk page for attention, or fix it if you can." Well, " List of red dwarfs" shows the word "None", when it shouldn't. Eric Kvaalen ( talk) 17:56, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
So, {{ annotated link}} creates a link to an article followed by a transclusion of that page's short description. Simple enough. However, if at a later date, that target article is moved, this template does not follow the ensuing redirection to find the new target (e.g. John Kennedy – President of the United States from 1961 to 1963 ). Is there a way to fix this? — Fourthords | =Λ= | 21:46, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
Is it possible to use this template in a way that doesn't violate MOS:CAPS, i.e. doesn't introduce unnecessary capital letters in words that aren't proper nouns, sentence starts, or acronyms? – Arms & Hearts ( talk) 18:45, 15 July 2022 (UTC)
Black swan theory – Theory of response to surprise events, that there is the second "theory" has a capital T? Since it is essentially a bullet point, surely that is a trivial technical breach that is completely inoffensive? -- John Maynard Friedman ( talk) 18:55, 26 July 2022 (UTC)
The caps look stupid on the Relish artilce. 2404:4404:27B3:6500:C480:79C0:6BBA:1 ( talk) 08:01, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
{{Annotated link|lc=y}}
would change the case. That way the MoS issue could be averted without breaking things elsewhere or needing widespread changes to short descriptions. (I appreciate it's probably no one's top priority, but worth a shot.) –
Arms & Hearts (
talk) 20:31, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
|lc=
parameter. Not sure I have the chops for this but could learn. ~
Kvng (
talk) 16:11, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
|lc=
to the template would be an improvement. A bigger improvement would be starting descriptions with lower case as is done as WikiData. Making that change at this point will produce pain. ~
Kvng (
talk) 17:02, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
|lc=
parameter. I don't have a lot of template experience but am interested in learning. I have just looked and have not found an example for how to lowercase the first letter of a string. Closest I found is
how to lowercase the whole string. ~
Kvng (
talk) 21:33, 15 January 2023 (UTC)
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
06:41, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
08:08, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
|lc=
has been applied?
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
16:31, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
I'm coming here from List of numeral systems#See also, where this template is used a few times and where the Lua script running time is exceeded. I copied that section to my sandbox, and got the same problem: "The time allocated for running scripts has expired", despite the whole page being just eight transclusions of this template. When I view source on that sandbox page, I see:
Transclusion expansion time report (%,ms,calls,template) 100.00% 10073.844 1 -total 99.71% 10044.426 8 Template:Annotated_link 99.59% 10032.270 22 Template:Template_parameter_value
Something appears to be wrong here, but I don't know what it might be. – Jonesey95 ( talk) 04:54, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
{{Template parameter value|Table of bases|Short description|1|1|1}}
works. "Parser profiling data" at the bottom of a preview says "Lua time usage 5.500/10.000 seconds". It fails if there are two identical occurrences (expected since 2×5.5 > 10). I don't know why it's so expensive on
Table of bases.
PrimeHunter (
talk) 00:34, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
I find this template horrible.
Unfortunately, it is has started to become used on many See also sections of pages. But the annotation supplied is often not very suitable for all the different contexts that the See also links are used in. This means that the annotation is not very relevant much of the time, and it is hard to make quick edits of the text in the relevant context. I mean this goes against the principle of a wiki, where text can be continuously improved on in various contexts. Many people probably don't think of this when they use the "Annotated link" template, but in reality it creates a lot of more work for those who come afterwards and want to contribute to improve the text for the given context. Therefore, I propose that this template should be abandoned. It creates more headache than it is good. Sauer202 ( talk) 07:36, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
better is better(chuckle)
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
19:00, 18 January 2023 (UTC)I have added |quote=
to
the sandbox and as can be seen in
the testcases it works just fine. Any objections to pushing this change to the template?
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
18:54, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
|italic=
.|lang=
to automate the fairly long-winded process of adding a {{
lang}} expression and not forgetting to include the nocat=yes
. --
𝕁𝕄𝔽 (
talk) 20:46, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
|emphasize=
(yes; "italic" might actually have been better) too, but realised that {{annotated link|The Man with Two Brains|''The Man with Two Brains''}}
already does it (handling DABs while it's there):
The Man with Two Brains – 1983 film by Carl Reiner|lang=
would require all the {{lang}}
params as well to pull off correctly, right? Well I just started reading the {{lang}}
docs and that's a big "nope" (right now).
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
00:05, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
00:07, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
17:26, 19 January 2023 (UTC){{Annotated link|Jump (Every Little Thing song)|"Jump"}}
{{Annotated link|Jump (Every Little Thing song)|Jump|quote=yes}}
{{Annotated link|Jump (Every Little Thing song)|"Jump"}}
creates:
|quote=
param
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
00:50, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
01:46, 19 January 2023 (UTC) Done let me know if I fudged up somehow.
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
23:00, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
{{
SDlink}} claims to fix a problem with {{annotated link}}
that doesn't appear to exist, so I have started a discussion at
Template talk:SDlink § Redundant? regarding its apparent uselessness, suggesting it should be deleted. Please chime in there.
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
05:35, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
I completely misread and misunderstood that template's purpose; although there is indeed a problem, it should be fixed in this template instead of making and maintaining another.
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
23:39, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
{{annotated link}}
itself —
GhostInTheMachine
talk to me 12:47, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
14:58, 29 January 2023 (UTC)While I was updating the syntax of the few quoted titles I found, I found (who needs Grammarly?) that editors are trying various ways to manipulate the results which itself might need looking at, but on Author, Author (Star Trek: Voyager) there's a case for a simple (ish) insertion (appending the link/prepending the annotation) of a qualification. They've done:
{{annotated link|The Measure of a Man (Star Trek: The Next Generation)|"The Measure of a Man" (''Star Trek: The Next Generation'')}}
and made:
I ran a quick and dirty test with and without an |abbreviation=
and it seemed okay; here's a simple example (sadly there's no short desc (bloody typical)):
{{Annotated link/sandbox|The Measure of a Man (Star Trek: The Next Generation)|The Measure of a Man|quote=yes|insert=(''Star Trek: The Next Generation'')}}
makes:
I'd like other people's thoughts on this. Sorry for the vague; I think my brain just ran out of caffeine.
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
23:26, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
{{Annotated link|The Partisan|quote=yes}} (the cover version by [[Electrelane]] is brilliant)
{{Annotated link/sandbox|The Partisan|quote=yes|insert=(the cover version by [[Electrelane]] is brilliant)}}
{{AnnotatedListOfLinks}}
at all, but will.
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
17:35, 20 January 2023 (UTC){{Annotated links| * [[Thing]] * [[Other thing]] * [[Stuff]] * [[Other stuff]] }}
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
17:51, 20 January 2023 (UTC)I made a module:
Module:GetShortDescription which appears to be working. I tried some more fancy stuff but I couldn't get it to work, so this will grab an explicitly set (by {{short description}}
on the article) short desc, but can't get an implicitly set short desc set by the likes of {{
infobox television episode}}. It will however grab the wikidata desc if asked and allows for fallback. There's a bunch of test setups in the code at the bottom if you feel like testing it.
I'll be dotting the tease and crossing my eyes after some anime and sleep, but it seems like it'll do. It is not for formatting the result; it just gets the result.
Here's an example trying to get the short desc of
Author, Author (Star Trek: Voyager), which has an implicit short desc from {{infobox television episode}}
. It asks for the preferred explicit short desc but will settle for the wikidata desc and to fallback to a provided string if that's not available:
Code: {{Annotated link|Author, Author (Star Trek: Voyager)}}
Result: Author, Author (Star Trek: Voyager) – episode of Star Trek: Voyager (S7 E20)
Code: {{#invoke:GetShortDescription|main|name=Author, Author (Star Trek: Voyager)|prefer=explicit|fallback=a TV episode}}
Result: table
Any comments welcome, as long as you're singing my praises and throwing confetti 😉
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
07:01, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
First draft of Module:Annotated link is done (many more tinkerings required):
Code: {{#invoke:Annotated link|main |name=Confédération Mondiale des Activités Subaquatiques |display=World Underwater Federation |wedge= |quote= |dash= |abbr=CMAS |case=lower |aka=''Confédération Mondiale des Activités Subaquatiques''}}
Result: World Underwater Federation ( CMAS), also known as Confédération Mondiale des Activités Subaquatiques – International organisation for underwater activities
Note the inclusion and effect of |case=
@
Arms & Hearts: 🙂
Okay?
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
20:19, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
𝕁𝕄𝔽 kindly pointed out
on my talk that {{
lang}} handling is not implemented yet in
Module:Annotated link, and they're correct. I have added it to
Module:GetShortDescription so that if wikidata returns a non-English description, it will be formatted with {{lang}}
markup. Work in progress; please give more feedback.
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
00:23, 22 January 2023 (UTC)
Also note; while I'm still working on them, they could do odd things from time to time, e.g. I am about to live test something that will cause all wikidata descriptions to be treated as if French.
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
01:47, 22 January 2023 (UTC)
Just to keep you in the loop; some folks at
Project:Good Article proposal drive 2023 somehow found my GetShortDescription module (I hadn't even written the docs!) and it appears they might need to get implicit descriptions, so I've revisited the issue, and think it might work, but will definitely be undesirable. It will be an option, but will require explicit request, and have a level of interest setting to limit its negative effects where apparently beyond reasonable i.e. it will search in stages, and the invocation will require the stage to which it should search explicitly set. I realise this may seem a little dramatic, but the process of grabbing an implicit description is potentially crippling. I'll be finishing the Annotated link module shortly too, then we can replace the current template code with a nice module invocation.
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
02:38, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
Update on implicit descriptions: looking at the transclusion counts of templates using modules in
Category:Modules that create a short description and a calculator; there are about 650,000 articles potentially affected. That's about 10% of Wikipedia articles. Someone should probably be paying attention to this. Any number of those could have the implicit description overridden by an explicit description. I am continuing development of the module to include the most efficient search for implicit descriptions I can figure out, but it will not be at all useful for {{annotated link}}
, as it will only work if the module is invoked on the article it's searching, so I will put the search for implicit descriptions on the back burner and focus on getting it ready to replace the template code.
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
11:19, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
20:51, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
00:31, 25 January 2023 (UTC)Current state of Module:Annotated link:
Code: {{#invoke:Annotated link|main |name=The Partisan |quote=yes |only=wikidata |desc_first_letter_case=upper |wedge=from the album ''[[Songs from a Room]]'' |aka=La Complainte du partisan |aka_lang=fr }}
Result: " The Partisan", also known as La Complainte du partisan, from the album Songs from a Room – Song composed by Anna Marly with lyrics by Emmanuel d'Astier de La Vigerie performed by Leonard Cohen
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
First draft personal sandboxed cobbled together proof of concept template ignore the title:
Code: {{User:Fred Gandt/sandbox/Get short description|The Partisan|quote=yes|only=wikidata|case=upper|wedge=from the album ''[[Songs from a Room]]''|aka=La Complainte du partisan|al=fr}}
Result: " The Partisan", also known as La Complainte du partisan, from the album Songs from a Room – Song composed by Anna Marly with lyrics by Emmanuel d'Astier de La Vigerie performed by Leonard Cohen
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
23:05, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
With the additional features and functionality, the
Module:Annotated link is ready for evaluation and testing; I'd appreciate assistance with that. It adds <abbr>...</abbr>
semantic markup for |abbr=
, and includes full
foreign language markup functionality. I've not added the module version of the code to this template's sandbox yet (I figured I'd wait for feedback first), but you can see the full extent of the proposed template markup at
User:Fred Gandt/sandbox/Get short description There's a lot of parameters and aliases to control all the features, but the overall layout will be significantly easier to maintain, and in its most basic form, requires no expensive parser functions. Also; don't worry; I'll happily write all the extra documentation 😉
As a direct swap, the results should be only different insofar that previously where this template didn't show a short description, it will show a wikidata description (with the first character case transformed to uppercase by default) if there's one available:
{{annotated link|Author, Author (Star Trek: Voyager)|Author, Author}}
→
Author, Author – episode of Star Trek: Voyager (S7 E20){{User:Fred Gandt/sandbox/Get short description|Author, Author (Star Trek: Voyager)|Author, Author}}
→
Author, Author – episode of Star Trek: Voyager (S7 E20)So, what do we think?
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
00:58, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
I am already in the process of fixing my derp regarding the first character case; lowercase should be the default. I am deeply ashamed and humbly request not be burned at the stake.
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
01:42, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
You can see by the scale of
the unit tests for Module:GetShortDescription, which has only three tested params with limited options, that thorough tests for Module:Annotated link, with twelve test-worthy params (the lang params need only be tested as working or not, since
Module:Lang is responsible, and the params for Module:GetShortDescription are already tested) will be somewhat epic.
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
16:36, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
Module:Annotated link now has
59 test cases and Module:GetShortDescription has
66 test cases (all passed). Let me know if I missed anything?
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
21:09, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
I've added the invocation of Module:Annotated link to the sandbox, and all
the current template test cases are good, although a few more wouldn't hurt.
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
21:26, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
As you may like to see by
the template testcases I have just started to expand; the improvement in accuracy is vastly superior. I have a day of work creating the full suite of tests ahead, so please bare with me.
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
07:34, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
Currently working on filtering even more edge cases so the test cases are showing a few known errors i.e. noreplace
is falling through. I will have it fixed shortly. It is however time for lunch and a walk.
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
11:29, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
Pretty certain Module:GetShortDescription can handle just about anything thrown at it now. I'll carry on updating the template tests in a bit, but I'm knackered.
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
11:32, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
Done and it went rather well. A number of (mostly list) pages are using this template for redlinks which required a quick fix; I will be making a minor adjustment to apply another
Category:Pages displaying redlinks processed by Module:AnnotatedLink for finding inappropriate usage in
MOS:SEEALSO sections (where
WP:REDLINKs should not be placed), but currently no known errors or alarmingMessages. I will be monitoring the situation all this waking day and ongoing while I have breath and an internet connection.
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
11:10, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
{{annotated link|List of missions to the Moon}}
→
List of missions to the Moon
Olivaw-Daneel (
talk) 19:02, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
|fallback=
. If the end result of examining the potentially multiple explicit short descriptions is none. the current setup considers it nil and goes for the next. Technically this is accurate behavior, so no, not a bug. While a Wikipedia page may desire no short description; this is all about annotating links to those pages, so any applicable description we can get our hands on seems fair game, and any editor can kill any inappropriate descriptions with fire by adding |only=explicit
. It's all adjustable individually (I mean literally everything the module can do can be controlled at the template call) and of course the module can be altered or the default behavior changed if desired.|desc_case=
is needed to fix even a |fallback=
; I shall fix that tomorrow; it's been quite the day.
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
19:49, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
14:11, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
none
) or did you mean "none" (as in the article has no SD)?
Because I support using the Wikidata in the latter case. --
𝕁𝕄𝔽 (
talk) 16:11, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
{{short description|none}}
and determines that no other template (other than implicit) is overruling it, it concludes that there is no explicit short description and moves on to whatever is next on its todo list in its feverish effort to create an annotation. If the template tells
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
16:23, 3 February 2023 (UTC)I am adding a filter to express when links should not fallback to a wikidata description (probably |not_wikidata=
) so link titles we know are already likely to explain themselves will need to be manually/explicitly marked as wanting a wikidata description at the translusion i.e. opt-in.
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
09:36, 4 February 2023 (UTC)
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
11:25, 4 February 2023 (UTC)The article may not want a short desc, but the annotation might be served well by another.
I'd be curious to see an example of this? I've only been able to find the opposite, i.e. if editors have marked a short description as none, the wikidata annotation seems redundant:
Architecture of New York City;
Regional variations of barbecue.
Olivaw-Daneel (
talk) 07:54, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
12:23, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
22:20, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
15:26, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
17:07, 7 February 2023 (UTC)Currently watching the new
Category:Pages displaying wikidata descriptions as a fallback to none via Module:Annotated link and
Category:Pages displaying short descriptions matching their page name via Module:Annotated link to see what's actually happening before making any decisions. Good time to put the kettle on I reckon.
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
00:09, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
Overall the addition of filtering, to be revised ongoing, has rendered the quantity of useless fallbacks to very few. I was in the process of working through them but encountered a mean spirited editor and got tired. I'll be plugging away at it again in as many hours as refreshment takes. Why work through them? The more of these we look at, the more we can understand how to improve the results. I've seen plenty of evidence that tamed Wikidata descriptions can be usefall as fallbacks, but the taming will take a little more work and monitoring – which I am doing.
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
06:43, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
As I understand it, Fred has recognised the need to respect explicit SD None and will not override it.This is not true: some special cases have been filtered out, but the default is that explicit SD=none is overriden by Wikidata, despite the two of us expressing opposition to this. FWIW, the code change required to implement this is rather simple - it'd take me a few seconds (delete lines 178–183 here and we're done). For articles with no SD, I don't have a strong opinion and am fine with the current behavior; perhaps it'll entice editors to add more SDs. Olivaw-Daneel ( talk) 21:43, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
22:20, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
I'm not invested in any camp; Wikidata is a potential source of description I'm studying for usefulness and it does come up wanting on occasion. Right now I'm looking at the possibility of filtering out the crappy ones; I'm interested by how relatively few Wikidata descriptions are being displayed and how even fewer there are because of an explicit none. I'm focussed on trying to find patterns to filter that have reliable and desirable effects, but will kill it with fire if it's not working. On the whole, at this early stage, I'd say Wikidata descriptions are occasionally helpful, but predominantly weak. I also realise that the wealth of categories may seem scary or silly (YMMV) but real use cases are the only decent yardstick we have; I've found more often than not that the reason for a page landing in the categories is something that needs fixing at the source, and actually finding these issues is being facilitated by the categorisation, and am considering the possibility of keeping the cats alive in the event that the results are killed.
Specifically Olivaw; one example as requested: Constantine the Great and Christianity
I wouldn't have know who Constantine the Great was without navigation. I admit it's not fabulous, but more importantly than its quality, is that it's just one of thousands of use cases and alone doesn't really tell us anything. The greatest problem we have is not being able to read the implicit short descriptions, and to that end I have exhausted my search for and trials of possible solutions out-of-the-box, but there is still the possibility of recreating the SD that is being dynamically created by e.g. an infobox, by reading the infobox params and doing with them what that infoxbox does; probably a lot of coding but it could work. One example I rather like of Wikidata filling the gap when this happens is for: Author, Author – episode of Star Trek: Voyager (S7 E20)
This description is the same information that the implicit SD applies, just in a different format. There are useful Wikidata descriptions, just maybe not proportionally enough to warrant handling or putting up with the crud.
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
15:13, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
No longer falling back to wikidata if an explicit is none.
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
03:54, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
|red_cat=no
if it's a legit use case.
Fred Gandt ·
talk ·
contribs
17:24, 2 February 2023 (UTC)One of the things the module does is potentially categorise pages attempting to annotate links to nonexistent pages; just as a head's up; it seems most List of... and Outline of... pages are using the template appropriately (mostly outside See also sections) so am adding the ability to specify when to automatically act as if |red_cat=no
is set explicitly. The module can then be instructed by this template, by providing a list of prefixes e.g |auto_red_cat_no=List of,Outline of
(haven't decided the syntax yet), that for its use cases, on those pages, the categorisation is unlikely useful. So there's a thing.
Fred Gandt ·
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11:29, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
|auto_red_cat_no=List of,Outline of
embedded in your module or do you expect editors to specify it? --
𝕁𝕄𝔽 (
talk) 12:18, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
Fred Gandt ·
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14:11, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
Done Pages starting with List of and Outline of are now being decategorised and won't be added while the instruction remains in the template code.
Fred Gandt ·
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19:01, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
The list is now "List of#Index of#Outline of#User:#User talk:" and can be adjusted as needed. I think knowing if Drafts contain red link annotations might be useful in-case any passer-by thinks to add it.
Fred Gandt ·
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13:19, 4 February 2023 (UTC)
Short descriptions in biographies typically start with the nationality of the person, which is capitalized as it is a proper noun (see examples at
WP:SDEXAMPLES). {{
Annotated link}} is sometimes used in lists of notable people, like in alumni lists (e.g.,
Norco High School). Given that and given the direction at {{
Short description}} that "Each short description should: ... start with a capital letter
", I question whether it is appropriate for this template to change its default behavior to lowercase short descriptions. Capitalized proper nouns that are already properly capitalized should not require extra steps to maintain that capitalization. Maybe the direction at {{
Short description}} should be changed not to require uppercase or lowercase, but until that happens, I do not think this template should contradict the capitalization already provided except by explicit designation by the editor adding a use of this template. —
Archer1234 (
t·
c) 00:35, 4 February 2023 (UTC)
|desc_case=upper
to several transclusions already and woke with the thought to examine for SDs starting with all upper words (probably abbreviations) but maybe case alteration needs to be opt-in. The result will be that most SDs used as annotations will be improperly starting with an uppercase letter, but at least the ones that should won't be wrong; one of the ones I adjusted started with "islamic".|not_wikidata=
.
Fred Gandt ·
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09:36, 4 February 2023 (UTC)
Fred Gandt ·
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12:56, 4 February 2023 (UTC)The short description of redirects is not displaying correctly like it used to. A couple of examples:
These examples are especially nonsensical since the redirects point to a section in an article on the author of the redirect topic, and the annotated link displays the description of the author instead of the description of the redirect topic. Biogeographist ( talk) 21:33, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
Fred Gandt ·
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00:14, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
Fred Gandt ·
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01:46, 12 February 2023 (UTC) Done
Fred Gandt ·
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03:56, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
I am not convinced that the behavior should be to pull the SD from a target when a redirect does not have an explicit SD. My guess is that redirects that target a section or an anchor are rarely appropriate for using the target's SD. Same for redirects for members of a group where the target is the group. Here's an example of the former (target is a section in an article):
{{Annotated link|Godwin Heights High School}}
→
Godwin Heights High School – High school in Wyoming, Michigan, United StatesHere's an example of the latter (redirect is a member of the target):
{{Annotated link|Lauren Willey}}
→
Lauren Willey – Member of American musical duo Double TakeI think it is better for {{ Annotated link}} to show nothing than to rely on the target's SD being appropriate. If someone is adding {{ Annotated link}} to an article for a redirect and no SD is displayed, then they can add an SD to the redirect. — Archer1234 ( t· c) 10:38, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
Fred Gandt ·
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14:54, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
Fred Gandt ·
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16:02, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
Fred Gandt ·
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17:57, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
Fred Gandt ·
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19:30, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
The category seems to have settled at 1,477 pages; the evaluation begins... (I'm watching
House (TV series) right now though and need the break)
Fred Gandt ·
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22:22, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
@
Fred Gandt: I wonder if it might be easy to add an option disp=it[alic]
? Or something similar? (combine with current quote=yes
?).
Meanwhile I've added a simple example to the template doc. (
Mona Lisa – Painting by Leonardo da Vinci).
Not a show stopper, just a nice to have.
𝕁𝕄𝔽 (
talk) 10:48, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
If this template is used to annotated some links and others are annotated manually, manual sorting of these lists is required. This situation could be improved by adding a manual description override parameter for use in cases where the the WP:SD is deemed not good for the context. See Network_address_translation#See_also for an example of these issues. Using {{ Annotated link}} for all entries with override parameter supplied where needed would make it easy to sort these lists again. ~ Kvng ( talk) 20:54, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
{{
annotated link|Tuvix|"Tuvix"}}
If I used that code, the resulting description is 24th episode of the second season of Star Trek: Voyager
. Anywhere else in the wiki,
even in hatnotes, we'd italicize Star Trek: Voyager. Are short descriptions explicitly exempt from this? Why the incongruity?
I previously asked this at
Wikipedia talk:Short description, and
Jonesey95 (
talk ·
contribs) said, Short descriptions can't have markup in them (see
WP:SDFORMAT), so there is no way to italicize their content properly within the short description. They were never intended to be displayed in articles, as far as I know. Your question may be best asked at
Template talk:Annotated link.
So here I am! —
Fourthords |
=Λ= | 18:48, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
{{
annotated link}}
? —
GhostInTheMachine
talk to me 19:57, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
Robotic mission that deployed the Curiosity rover to Mars in 2012and should be—but isn't—italicizing Curiosity. — Fourthords | =Λ= | 23:47, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
Fred Gandt ·
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21:20, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
{{annotated link|Tuvix|quote=y}}
is preferable (the quotes are not part of the link this way) and it should be noted that the description for that episode is being grabbed from Wikidata at this time, because the explicit short desc is added to the article by the infobox which makes it unreadable by the module (it's quite complicated).
Fred Gandt ·
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21:31, 9 January 2024 (UTC)The use of the Section link aka slink template results in the '#' character that separates the page name from a section name (i.e. 'Albert Einstein#Life and career') being rendered as the ' § ' characters ('Albert Einstein § Life and career'). The Annotated link template does not do this; I would propose that it be modified to function the same way the Section link template functions. Tfdavisatsnetnet ( talk) 07:01, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
Fred Gandt ·
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10:43, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
{{
r to section}}
(or {{
r to anchor}}
) and most commonly the only issue is that the redirect article doesn't have its own SD, which is easily rectified. Does that not better deliver the intent of of
Tfdavisatsnetnet's request? --
𝕁𝕄𝔽 (
talk) 10:51, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
{{annotated link|Albert Einstein#Life and career|Albert Einstein § Life and career}}
-->
Albert Einstein § Life and career – German-born physicist (1879–1955)
Fred Gandt ·
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11:20, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
Fred Gandt ·
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11:28, 16 January 2024 (UTC){{annotated link/sandbox|Albert Einstein#Life and career}}
-->
Albert Einstein § Life and career – German-born physicist (1879–1955)
Fred Gandt ·
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12:55, 17 January 2024 (UTC)