![]() | Spaceflight Template‑class | ||||||
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![]() | Rocketry Template‑class | ||||||
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Some sort of classification based on upper stage / booster engine would be very useful. Not sure how to represent this in the template, but the way U/S and other engines are built is quite different, and there are a lot less of these around. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Savuporo ( talk • contribs) 01:00, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
Shouldn't this template include the three new solid rocket motors that successfully flew on the ESA Vega flight in February? The Vega has the P80 first stage, the Zefiro 23 second stage, and the Zefiro 9 third stage. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 157.166.167.129 ( talk) 23:00, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
Some missing engines include RD-171 RD-108 RD-0110 ArkianNWM ( talk) 17:47, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
User:Baldusi ( talk) 21:00, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
What engines are appropriate for this list? Is it only for launch vehicles? Only for engines that have flown? Undergone significant development/testing? Thoughts? ArkianNWM ( talk) 17:10, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
The way I understand this template, is that it is trying to list all of the engines that have ever flown on a major rocket powered vehicle, and not just a subset of those. My issue then is that the classes that these engines are arranged into don't cover all categories. More directly, the classes are too narrow. LOX/LH2 are not the only cryogenic fuel combo, LOX/RP1 are not the only semi cryogenic fuel combo, and there are engines that use no cryogens but also do not use hypergols. I know that there are a couple of engines currently undergoing testing that use LOX/LCH4 which are both cryogenic. I don't know if any engine systems exist which would be appropriate for this list that use these, but LF2, NO2, and HTP are potential oxidizers that are excluded from this list and there are many fuels other than RP-1 that are excluded from this list including gasoline, LCH4, and Syntin. ArkianNWM ( talk) 17:10, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
The template currently shows RD-0146 as a "flown" engine. When, where, on what vehicle? ( sdsds - talk) 23:29, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
Vinci was included when this template was just "rocket engines," but it has not yet flown... and probably won't for several years A( Ch) 00:17, 27 July 2014 (UTC)
We have seen both the Blue Origin's BE-3 and the SpaceX SuperDraco fly sub orbital. Should this classify for this? I understand that the BE-3, which went to 97km of altitude should be put here, and it's supposed to cross the Kármán line, is a "space" rocket. I'm not sure about the SuperDraco since it's not a main rocket engine (but neither is the RD-8). Should the SpaceShipTwo RocketMotorTwo be considered? Why isn't the X-15 XLR99, that actually made it above the Kármán_line in 1963? In other words, when we talk about flown do we mean orbital, or do we include suborbital? Let's remember that there are a lot of rockets used for sounding rockets, too. Thus, I believe that we should either change the title a bit (adding the orbital word), or add a bunch of rocket engines. ( Baldusi - talk) 13:03, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
I've been thinking how to divide the solid motor section. Just from getting some of the space related families, it is getting big. I did a first approach on the country of origin. The other possible divisions I can think of are: 1) Fuel (APCP, HTPB, etc.). But the possible mixtures are huge and that's information that's very difficult to acquire. Specially if due diligence is done cross checking. 2) Casing: Segmented/monolithic and metal/composite. Just 4 combinations seem like little. 3) Use: missile/booster/space launch core/upper stage/kick stage. Could be, but solid motors are notable for being very flexible in this regard. So, I'm leaning on dividing by country of origin, as long as it doesn't grows too much. But for this I believe that we should have a serious discussion on the scope of this template. Almost every military rocket has a solid motor. And some have been used for non-military space launches (like Taurus). So I believe that some serious scoping should be discussed and written. Baldusi ( talk) 18:16, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
I've been working on this template a lot. I've written no less than 20 new articles, added quite a bunch of engines, motors and categories. But the template lacks a clear scoping. One underlying problem is that I've been seeing a clash between Wikipedia:WikiProject Spaceflight, Wikipedia:WikiProject Rocketry and Wikipedia:WikiProject Aviation! In fact, the template is currently claimed by Wikipedia:WikiProject Spaceflight.
As currently defined, the Template is only for flown engines, but it doesn't define what sort of flight. Thus it mixes aircraft, space and military applications. And yet it is only filled by space related engines. Thus, I would like to propose to branch the templates in one for spaceflight specific engines (where we might discuss is suborbital or space project like Project Morpheus should be included. And some fire tested engines might go there, too. I believe that Aviations should have a separate Template. And so should rocketry. I will invite members of those projects to this discussions.
Please understand this is my first discussion and if there's some formal way of doing votes and such I will require some assistance.
Baldusi ( talk) 15:58, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
I would like to get a few more opinions. But I will be developing a proposal during this week so we can discuss it. When I have the proposal ready for discussion I would kindly ask all of you to ping somebody else from Wikipedia:WikiProject Spaceflight, Wikipedia:WikiProject Rocketry and Wikipedia:WikiProject Aviation. I might be a member of the first two but I'm the one doing the proposal so I would like at least two other member per project. If this is fine in a week or so I will ping you so you can see it and ask for further opinions. Baldusi ( talk) 15:26, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
My proposal is to reduce the scope of this template to "Orbital Launch rocket engines that have flown". And make a series of lists for the rest. We would also have to work on the rocket categories, too. And I would probably help do a rocket nav template (Rocket Types/Rocket Concepts/Rocket Technology/History/Lists would be the main subjects). But that should be discussed on each individual Talk page. So, without further ado:
Well, it looks like there is a consensus. I will make the changes and explain the scope during this week. Baldusi ( talk) 16:27, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
Today I added the new Vinci engine under development by Airbus Safran Launchers for the Ariane 6 second stage. Baldusi reverted me, pointing out that the template's scope is limited to rocket engines that have already flown. Now I see the 2015 discussion which I had missed, however I think it would be informative for readers to see the upcoming engines which are in active development by reputable companies (not necessarily planned engines which are only on the drawing board and may never materialize). I would suggest adding them in italics, with a note at bottom of the template. There must be very few such engines, so they wouldn't clutter the template. Opinions please. — JFG talk 16:31, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
Question on China: any clue about the SpaB-65 and SpaB-140C SRMs? I've seen a picture of Kuaizhou specs with a SpaB-100 too, but can't find much info beyond that. Also I suspect that Kuaizhou (KZ-11) and Long March 11 (CZ-11) are the same design, just named differently for military or civil applications. What do you think? — JFG talk 17:32, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
Since in this template rocket engines are classified by different storage temperature, I suggest using the term 'storable' instead of hypergolic. - PSR B1937+21 ( talk) 04:05, 16 June 2017 (UTC)
![]() | Spaceflight Template‑class | ||||||
|
![]() | Rocketry Template‑class | ||||||
|
Some sort of classification based on upper stage / booster engine would be very useful. Not sure how to represent this in the template, but the way U/S and other engines are built is quite different, and there are a lot less of these around. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Savuporo ( talk • contribs) 01:00, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
Shouldn't this template include the three new solid rocket motors that successfully flew on the ESA Vega flight in February? The Vega has the P80 first stage, the Zefiro 23 second stage, and the Zefiro 9 third stage. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 157.166.167.129 ( talk) 23:00, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
Some missing engines include RD-171 RD-108 RD-0110 ArkianNWM ( talk) 17:47, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
User:Baldusi ( talk) 21:00, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
What engines are appropriate for this list? Is it only for launch vehicles? Only for engines that have flown? Undergone significant development/testing? Thoughts? ArkianNWM ( talk) 17:10, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
The way I understand this template, is that it is trying to list all of the engines that have ever flown on a major rocket powered vehicle, and not just a subset of those. My issue then is that the classes that these engines are arranged into don't cover all categories. More directly, the classes are too narrow. LOX/LH2 are not the only cryogenic fuel combo, LOX/RP1 are not the only semi cryogenic fuel combo, and there are engines that use no cryogens but also do not use hypergols. I know that there are a couple of engines currently undergoing testing that use LOX/LCH4 which are both cryogenic. I don't know if any engine systems exist which would be appropriate for this list that use these, but LF2, NO2, and HTP are potential oxidizers that are excluded from this list and there are many fuels other than RP-1 that are excluded from this list including gasoline, LCH4, and Syntin. ArkianNWM ( talk) 17:10, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
The template currently shows RD-0146 as a "flown" engine. When, where, on what vehicle? ( sdsds - talk) 23:29, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
Vinci was included when this template was just "rocket engines," but it has not yet flown... and probably won't for several years A( Ch) 00:17, 27 July 2014 (UTC)
We have seen both the Blue Origin's BE-3 and the SpaceX SuperDraco fly sub orbital. Should this classify for this? I understand that the BE-3, which went to 97km of altitude should be put here, and it's supposed to cross the Kármán line, is a "space" rocket. I'm not sure about the SuperDraco since it's not a main rocket engine (but neither is the RD-8). Should the SpaceShipTwo RocketMotorTwo be considered? Why isn't the X-15 XLR99, that actually made it above the Kármán_line in 1963? In other words, when we talk about flown do we mean orbital, or do we include suborbital? Let's remember that there are a lot of rockets used for sounding rockets, too. Thus, I believe that we should either change the title a bit (adding the orbital word), or add a bunch of rocket engines. ( Baldusi - talk) 13:03, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
I've been thinking how to divide the solid motor section. Just from getting some of the space related families, it is getting big. I did a first approach on the country of origin. The other possible divisions I can think of are: 1) Fuel (APCP, HTPB, etc.). But the possible mixtures are huge and that's information that's very difficult to acquire. Specially if due diligence is done cross checking. 2) Casing: Segmented/monolithic and metal/composite. Just 4 combinations seem like little. 3) Use: missile/booster/space launch core/upper stage/kick stage. Could be, but solid motors are notable for being very flexible in this regard. So, I'm leaning on dividing by country of origin, as long as it doesn't grows too much. But for this I believe that we should have a serious discussion on the scope of this template. Almost every military rocket has a solid motor. And some have been used for non-military space launches (like Taurus). So I believe that some serious scoping should be discussed and written. Baldusi ( talk) 18:16, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
I've been working on this template a lot. I've written no less than 20 new articles, added quite a bunch of engines, motors and categories. But the template lacks a clear scoping. One underlying problem is that I've been seeing a clash between Wikipedia:WikiProject Spaceflight, Wikipedia:WikiProject Rocketry and Wikipedia:WikiProject Aviation! In fact, the template is currently claimed by Wikipedia:WikiProject Spaceflight.
As currently defined, the Template is only for flown engines, but it doesn't define what sort of flight. Thus it mixes aircraft, space and military applications. And yet it is only filled by space related engines. Thus, I would like to propose to branch the templates in one for spaceflight specific engines (where we might discuss is suborbital or space project like Project Morpheus should be included. And some fire tested engines might go there, too. I believe that Aviations should have a separate Template. And so should rocketry. I will invite members of those projects to this discussions.
Please understand this is my first discussion and if there's some formal way of doing votes and such I will require some assistance.
Baldusi ( talk) 15:58, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
I would like to get a few more opinions. But I will be developing a proposal during this week so we can discuss it. When I have the proposal ready for discussion I would kindly ask all of you to ping somebody else from Wikipedia:WikiProject Spaceflight, Wikipedia:WikiProject Rocketry and Wikipedia:WikiProject Aviation. I might be a member of the first two but I'm the one doing the proposal so I would like at least two other member per project. If this is fine in a week or so I will ping you so you can see it and ask for further opinions. Baldusi ( talk) 15:26, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
My proposal is to reduce the scope of this template to "Orbital Launch rocket engines that have flown". And make a series of lists for the rest. We would also have to work on the rocket categories, too. And I would probably help do a rocket nav template (Rocket Types/Rocket Concepts/Rocket Technology/History/Lists would be the main subjects). But that should be discussed on each individual Talk page. So, without further ado:
Well, it looks like there is a consensus. I will make the changes and explain the scope during this week. Baldusi ( talk) 16:27, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
Today I added the new Vinci engine under development by Airbus Safran Launchers for the Ariane 6 second stage. Baldusi reverted me, pointing out that the template's scope is limited to rocket engines that have already flown. Now I see the 2015 discussion which I had missed, however I think it would be informative for readers to see the upcoming engines which are in active development by reputable companies (not necessarily planned engines which are only on the drawing board and may never materialize). I would suggest adding them in italics, with a note at bottom of the template. There must be very few such engines, so they wouldn't clutter the template. Opinions please. — JFG talk 16:31, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
Question on China: any clue about the SpaB-65 and SpaB-140C SRMs? I've seen a picture of Kuaizhou specs with a SpaB-100 too, but can't find much info beyond that. Also I suspect that Kuaizhou (KZ-11) and Long March 11 (CZ-11) are the same design, just named differently for military or civil applications. What do you think? — JFG talk 17:32, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
Since in this template rocket engines are classified by different storage temperature, I suggest using the term 'storable' instead of hypergolic. - PSR B1937+21 ( talk) 04:05, 16 June 2017 (UTC)