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On the page Tungchow Mutiny the Nihongo and Zh templates are used together. This creates inconsistent punctuation. The items on the zh tempate are separated by colons, the nihongo template has no separator, but the junction between the two templates is marked with a comma. For example:
Can we have consistency between the two templates so that they can be used together neatly. Rincewind42 ( talk) 06:42, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
Recently I did some work on the page Help:Installing Japanese character sets, to make it clear that the page is about installing fonts. Users don't install character sets (like Unicode, an international standard), they install fonts and/or make various other settings so that they can display and enter characters in the character sets. So now I would like to move the page to a new name. Two questions:
Some ideas that occur to me are
Does anyone have better ideas for a new name? There are other pages about this on Wikipedia, so maybe we should try to choose a consistent name. Thanks. -- Margin1522 ( talk) 06:07, 1 September 2014 (UTC)
Hello,
Should we add {{lang|ja-Latn-alalc97|{{{3}}}}}
to the template? Last versions of web browsers don't change the font if Latn subtag is used, except Firefox, it will be fixed on
version 33 out October 14.
alalc97 = Modified Hepburn method [1]
Sorry about my English Thibaut120094 ( talk) 14:29, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
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Please update the main template from the sandbox with the change above. This is a straightforward and I think uncontroversial change, similar to changes made to Template:Zh recently, and correctly tags the Romanisation in a similar way. The only issue that arose with that was with the Firefox browser and as noted above that should now be fixed. I was hoping to get some feedback on it but this has been sitting here for over a month without any comment, and my recent post to WT:JA did not elicit a response. I can only assume anyone looking at it found it unproblematic. Probably the only way to find out if there are any issues is implement the change and look out for problems in articles and reports in the obvious places.-- JohnBlackburne words deeds 01:53, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
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Ack no no no no revert this immediately. The whole compliment of -Latn tags do not work. They encode the romanized text as if it was Japanese text. It looks god awful italicized. Mr. Stradivarius Change it back.— Ryūlóng ( 琉竜) 05:53, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
Yeah, this doesn't work. As explained in the last comment of the FF bugreport: "Unduping: bug 756022: the fix for that was narrower in scope than this bug and didn't address the issue of script subtags in language tags in content." So they fixed this for some parts of Firefox, just not for random pieces of content with a script subtag in the lang attribute. — TheDJ ( talk • contribs) 13:03, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
Latn
it should use Latin e.g. English fonts not the fonts specified for Chinese. Looking at the settings here it may be that Japanese is different, i.e. worse, as the default fonts for Japanese are not 'Serif' and 'Sans-serif' but Japanese specific fonts, but this may vary depending on your own setup.--
JohnBlackburne
words
deeds
13:21, 27 November 2014 (UTC)It's been more than 3 years. It appears that browsers have improved and handle language script and variant tags much better now. Is it time to try adding this tag again? -- Bigpeteb ( talk) 17:38, 16 March 2018 (UTC)
I would like to know why the "Help:Installing Japanese character sets" link ("?") typically shows up after the Hepburn and not the Japanese (kanji/kana). It seems to me that it would make more sense putting it directly after the latter. – Maky « talk » 19:26, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
The current formatting of this template introduces a problem in cases where it is used to mark a term that is already written in romanized Japanese, doubly so when used for the name of a Japanese person written in western order.
The article on Akira Toriyama currently begins "Akira Toriyama ( Japanese: 鳥山 明, Hepburn: Toriyama Akira)". The fact is that his name is in Japanese in all three instances, and both romanized spellings are Hepburn. What the text actually means here is "Akira Toriyama (kanji/kana: 鳥山 明, Japanese naming order: Toriyama Akira". As far as I can tell this problem extends to thousands (?) of other articles on Japanese people born after 1868, and a lesser version to all the other Japanese bio articles before 1868.
I can think of three possible solutions:
Am I missing something? Was this problem already given a technical fix I haven't seen, and the Toriyama article hasn't been fixed yet?
Hijiri 88 ( 聖 やや) 14:01, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
Should it be encased inside the if lead clause? I think just having it appear once is enough. DragonZero ( Talk · Contribs) 05:15, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
Related to this, I think, is the unanswered question I raised above about whether the "?" should follow the Hepburn or the Japanese (kanji/kana). It seems to me like it's backwards since the Hepburn will show up anyway. If people need Japanese character sets, they'll noticed with the kanji/kana. – Maky « talk » 03:24, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
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It shouldn't be anything controversial but could be settled by a straw vote. If Template size is a worry, users can just opt to use Nihongo4 instead. DragonZero ( Talk · Contribs) 06:38, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
Needs consensus on proposal 1 (Move question mark to Japanese characters) and proposal 2 (Put question mark inside a lead=yes clause). DragonZero ( Talk · Contribs) 02:11, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
The majority of articles that use Nihongo with all three fields filled should have lead=yes on its first instance, whether it's in the lead or not. Secondly, we're getting into the weird practice of using Nihongo once (Lead or not lead=yes), and nihongo 4 for the rest. About the love article, since it's just the romaji and character, it should probably use nihongo3. DragonZero ( Talk · Contribs) 19:57, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
In response to Nihonjoe's opinion that we should combine the templates, I'd like to suggest that if we do that we consider a radical simplification, with the goals of reducing the number of templates, making the HTML more efficient, and (most importantly) making the basic Nihongo template less complex for the user. I did some counting, and here are some numbers. To avoid clogging up the survey, I'll start a new section. The numbers in parentheses are the HTML output.
References
In terms of the HTML output, they all wrap the kanji in (lang="ja" xml:lang="ja") spans. That looks like the baseline essential function. The largest are Nihongo and Nihongo 3, because of the code for the question mark. Some are larger because of <span class="t_nihongo_kanji">
. I'm not sure what that does. Nihongo-s doesn't have it, and seems to display fine for me.
In terms of complexity for the user, a lot of the complexity comes from having the English as the first parameter, even though it is displayed outside the parentheses in every template except Nihongo3. IMO, if the English is going to be outside, the user can just write the English first. There is no need for this to be a parameter.
Tōkyō ({{Nihongo2|東京}} Tokyo)
. So I see no special need for Nihongo3.<ref>{{Nihongo2|東京}} Tōkyō</ref>
So I see no special need for Nihongo foot either. The only thing it does is save a few keystrokes.So it looks to me like there is an opportunity to make this much simpler and easier for the user, plus more efficient HTML. Get rid of the English parameter. Base the code on Nihongo-s (with class="t_nihongo_kanji" if that's doing something essential). For Nihongo have the kanji be the first parameter, romanization as the optional second parameter, and all of the other options as named parameters that don't depend on the order. Then also keep Nihongo2 for the times that all you want is the kanji. Also perhaps keep Nihongo-s for the times when code size is important and options are not. – Margin1522 ( talk) 21:50, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
{{Nihongo}}
, but it definitely commonly uses English—for example, you might write: {{Nihongo|rickshaw|人力車|jinrikisya|"human-powered vehicle"}}—which outputs: rickshaw (人力車, jinrikisya, "human-powered vehicle"). If we're not going to keep all those pieces together in one template, then I don't see what prupose the template serves—I'd myself just start using {{
lang|ja}} and {{
transl|ja}}.
Curly Turkey
¡gobble!
07:05, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
Over at Talk:Yu Kanda#Little question mark @ Siuenti: suggested that it may be more intuitive to place the question mark linking to Help:Installing Japanese character sets after the kanji/kana rather than after the Latin based romanji since the Japanese character set is the former, not the latter, and the question mark may suggest needing help with the romanji instead. Though Siuenti suggested this be done at the specific Kanda Yu article by substing the templates, I think it's better that this be discussed here and, should a consensus be in favor of the suggestion, implemented at the source across all articles rather than patching it through some individual articles (which, I imagine would create unnecessary discontinuity). As such, I'm moving the discussion for this here. Should the question mark be moved to the specific Japanese character set in question? ~Cheers, Ten Ton Parasol 20:12, 14 May 2017 (UTC)
(continued from above) The link to Help:Installing Japanese character sets was included back when native support for East Asian character sets weren't common, but with it being natively supported since Vista (2007), is it really needed anymore? — Farix ( t | c) 21:14, 14 May 2017 (UTC)
spanlang=ja ~ sup.noprint {
display:none !important;
}
{{
Nihongo4}}
with {{
Nihongo}}
as the only difference is the lack of a question mark in the former. Since the latter no longer has the question mark, there is no need for the former. Can we agree on that so we can task a bot to the replacement? ···
日本穣 ·
投稿 ·
Talk to Nihonjoe ·
Join WP Japan!
20:46, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
Please remove the comma between the Japanese word and its phonetic transcription. No commas appear between words and their phonetic transcriptions in phonetics literature. -- Omnipaedista ( talk) 11:42, 8 December 2017 (UTC)
I'd like to request a feature to enable setting a font-family parameter on the
Template:Nihongo to specified content.
My motivation for asking this is that some characters don't display "correctly" with the default English Wikipedia font-family for the Desktop version, which is the Monotype Sans Serif.
Example: "a̠" and "ɯ̟". But if I <span>...</span>
with the DejaVu Sans font-family, it gives: "a̠" and "ɯ̟"
So, I'd like the following example working with the IPA-ja parameter and with a customized font-family: error: {{nihongo}}: Japanese or romaji text required (
help)
I did try setting <span>...</span>
inside the
Template:Nihongo, but it results in: error: {{nihongo}}: Japanese or romaji text required (
help)
According to
DES on
Teahouse#Changing the font of a parameter value:
"A template could accept a parameter indicating in what font its contents or part of them, would be displayed, but it would have to be coded into the template, it would not operate automatically. See {{
tq}} where the |i=
forces italics, for example."
[
TRANSviada@
talk ~]$
19:53, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
<span>...</span>
inside the parameter to {{
nihongo}}. Compare with and without span:<span>...</span>
. --
Stefan2 (
talk)
21:05, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
[
TRANSviada@
talk ~]$
22:15, 28 May 2018 (UTC)I would like to request an edit to template editors to add a semicolon between the Japanese text and Hepburn romanization. The reason is in {{ lang-zh}} and {{ CJKV}}, their displays of the templates has semicolon to separate different aspects. — Wei4Green | 唯绿远大 ( talk) 16:44, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
A recent somewhat related discussion elsewhere reminded me that {{
nihongo}}
and {{
nihongo3}}
do not render in the same way that {{
lang}}
and {{
lang-ja}}
render though it is common for the nihongo and lang templates to be used together in articles.
The obvious difference (to me) is that the nihongo templates lack tool tips. Because it was interesting for me to do it, I have hacked
module:lang/utilities/sandbox, {{
nihongo/sandbox}}
, and {{
nihongo3/sandbox}}
to use _lang()
, _lang_xx_inherit()
, and _transl()
from
module:lang to render the Japanese and romaji parameters so that tooltips are available when readers mouse-over the rendered texts. You can see this in
Template:nihongo/testcases and
Template:nihongo3/testcases.
There are some cases in the test cases that are, to me, perplexing. Why, for example, would we ever want to use either of these templates to render only the English parameter value, or only the extra parameter value, or only the extra2 parameter value (or any combinations of only these three) without also rendering a Japanese or romaji value? It seems to me that one of {{{2}}}
(Japanese) or {{{3}}}
(romaji) should be required. Templates that don't include one of these should emit an error message and add the article to an appropriate tracking category so that the template can be fixed.
When |lead=yes
and when {{{1}}}
(English) has no value, why is it that {{nihongo}}
does not prefix the romanization with the hepburn wikilink:
{{nihongo||日本|Nippon|lead=yes}}
→ Nippon (
Japanese: 日本)cf. when {{{1}}}
(English) has a value
Why doesn't {{nihongo3}}
support |lead=
?
{{nihongo3|Japan|日本|Nippon|lead=yes}}
→ Nippon (日本, Japan)I haven't touched {{
nihongo2}}
because that is more-or-less a call to {{
lang|ja|...}}
(further reason, I suppose, that {{nihongo}}
and {{nihongo3}}
should move to use module:lang).
Comments?
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 14:49, 13 December 2019 (UTC)
And {{
nihongo foot/sandbox}}
and
Template:nihongo foot/testcases. This live template supports the
Help:Installing Japanese character sets link; the sandbox does not because none of {{
nihongo}}
, , or {{
nihongo2}}
{{
nihongo3}}
support that functionality.
Again, some of the supported 'functionality' makes no sense (only English or only extra or only extra2 or combinations of these).
The sandbox does not emit a footnote without at least on of Japanese, romaji, extra, or extra2; since these are the content of the footnote, if not are present it doesn't make sense to make a footnote. The sandbox fixes some text formatting errors that are present in the live template.
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 20:00, 13 December 2019 (UTC)
{{
nihongo}}
. Errors detected by the template are categorized in
Category:Nihongo template errors (0).{{
nihongo3}}
updated.{{
nihongo foot}}
updated.{{
nihongo}}
documentation has required the <kanji/kana>
positional parameter ({{{2}}}
):
{{
Administrative divisions of Japan}}
template discussed below. The error messages are there to alert editors to problems with the template; when editors do not know, or realize, that a problem exists, they will not fix the problem.{{nihongo}}
in articles that matter to you, are repaired as you would have them repaired; not as some drive-by editor might 'fix' them.{{resize|smaller|{{Nihongo|{{resize|larger|[[Subprefectures of Japan|Subprefectures]]}}}}}}
{{
resize}}
templates; not sure why {{
nihongo}}
when there isn't any kanji/Kana or rōmaji text anywhere in that template. {{nihongo}}
requires kanji/Kana and / or rōmaji so, neither of those being present, {{nihongo}}
emits an error message to say that its requirements are not being fulfilled. It would seem to me that the above should be replaced with:
[[Subprefectures of Japan|Subprefectures]]
If you're going to change this template, you ought to also change
Template:Nihongo3 to match. They now have different formatting because this template marks the romanized text with lang="ja-Latn"
(causing browsers to pick a Japanese font) and Nihongo3 doesn't. --
Bigpeteb (
talk)
21:41, 2 January 2020 (UTC)
lang="ja-Latn"
should not cause browsers to pick a Japanese fontbecause the Latn ietf tag identifies the text as using a Latin script, not a Japanese script. On my browser, Chrome 78.0.3904.108, this:
{{nihongo|English uses Latn font|Japanese uses Japanese font|Romanized uses Latn font}}
English uses Latn font<span style="font-weight: normal"> (<span title="Japanese-language text"><i lang="ja">Japanese uses Japanese font</i></span>, <span title="Hepburn transliteration"><i lang="ja-Latn">Romanized uses Latn font</i></span><span style="margin-left:.09em">)</span></span>
{{
nihongo3}}
and {{
nihongo foot}}
but, because no one said anything about these proposed updates, it was not clear to me what kind of torches and pitchforks uprising I would receive so I minimized my possible pain by limiting the update to {{
nihongo}}
. The other two should be updated together, assuming that, the holidays mostly over, there isn't a torches-and-pitchforks-uprising from returning editors.lang="ja-Latn"
text appears in a Japanese font, identical to the lang="ja"
text. --
Bigpeteb (
talk)
00:09, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
Sometimes Japanese names have = signs in them, which appears to throw up this error even though it was presumably displaying properly before the change. I can fix it by doing this but is there a better solution? — Xezbeth ( talk) 05:37, 6 January 2020 (UTC)
{{nihongo}}
is not broken. This is a problem that occurs with any template that uses positional parameters as {{nihongo}}
does.{{
nihongo}}
:
{{{1}}}
gets the value <english>
{{{2}}}
gets the value <japanese>
{{{3}}}
gets the value <romaji>
=
), MediaWiki interprets that as a named parameter.{{{1}}}
with a value of "Cock Robin Ondo"
and a named parameter, クック
that has the assigned value of ロビン音頭
. MediaWiki then calls {{nihongo}}
and passes it these two parameters. Nihongo does not recognize クック
as a valid parameter name and did not get a <japanese>
positional parameter so it emits the error message. (The previous version of this template simply ignored the |クック=
parameter so it only displayed "Cock Robin Ondo".)<nowiki>...</nowiki>
tag is removed and replaced with a stripmarker which is, at the end, replaced by the content of the <nowiki>...</nowiki>
tag). The common fix to these assignment-operator-in-positional-parameter-value problems it to use a number as a parameter name so while this does not work:
{{nihongo|"Cock Robin Ondo"|クック=ロビン音頭}}
→ error: {{nihongo}}: Japanese or romaji text required (
help)|2=クック=ロビン音頭
does
{{nihongo|"Cock Robin Ondo"|2=クック=ロビン音頭}}
→ "Cock Robin Ondo" (クック=ロビン音頭)![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 |
On the page Tungchow Mutiny the Nihongo and Zh templates are used together. This creates inconsistent punctuation. The items on the zh tempate are separated by colons, the nihongo template has no separator, but the junction between the two templates is marked with a comma. For example:
Can we have consistency between the two templates so that they can be used together neatly. Rincewind42 ( talk) 06:42, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
Recently I did some work on the page Help:Installing Japanese character sets, to make it clear that the page is about installing fonts. Users don't install character sets (like Unicode, an international standard), they install fonts and/or make various other settings so that they can display and enter characters in the character sets. So now I would like to move the page to a new name. Two questions:
Some ideas that occur to me are
Does anyone have better ideas for a new name? There are other pages about this on Wikipedia, so maybe we should try to choose a consistent name. Thanks. -- Margin1522 ( talk) 06:07, 1 September 2014 (UTC)
Hello,
Should we add {{lang|ja-Latn-alalc97|{{{3}}}}}
to the template? Last versions of web browsers don't change the font if Latn subtag is used, except Firefox, it will be fixed on
version 33 out October 14.
alalc97 = Modified Hepburn method [1]
Sorry about my English Thibaut120094 ( talk) 14:29, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
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edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please update the main template from the sandbox with the change above. This is a straightforward and I think uncontroversial change, similar to changes made to Template:Zh recently, and correctly tags the Romanisation in a similar way. The only issue that arose with that was with the Firefox browser and as noted above that should now be fixed. I was hoping to get some feedback on it but this has been sitting here for over a month without any comment, and my recent post to WT:JA did not elicit a response. I can only assume anyone looking at it found it unproblematic. Probably the only way to find out if there are any issues is implement the change and look out for problems in articles and reports in the obvious places.-- JohnBlackburne words deeds 01:53, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
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Ack no no no no revert this immediately. The whole compliment of -Latn tags do not work. They encode the romanized text as if it was Japanese text. It looks god awful italicized. Mr. Stradivarius Change it back.— Ryūlóng ( 琉竜) 05:53, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
Yeah, this doesn't work. As explained in the last comment of the FF bugreport: "Unduping: bug 756022: the fix for that was narrower in scope than this bug and didn't address the issue of script subtags in language tags in content." So they fixed this for some parts of Firefox, just not for random pieces of content with a script subtag in the lang attribute. — TheDJ ( talk • contribs) 13:03, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
Latn
it should use Latin e.g. English fonts not the fonts specified for Chinese. Looking at the settings here it may be that Japanese is different, i.e. worse, as the default fonts for Japanese are not 'Serif' and 'Sans-serif' but Japanese specific fonts, but this may vary depending on your own setup.--
JohnBlackburne
words
deeds
13:21, 27 November 2014 (UTC)It's been more than 3 years. It appears that browsers have improved and handle language script and variant tags much better now. Is it time to try adding this tag again? -- Bigpeteb ( talk) 17:38, 16 March 2018 (UTC)
I would like to know why the "Help:Installing Japanese character sets" link ("?") typically shows up after the Hepburn and not the Japanese (kanji/kana). It seems to me that it would make more sense putting it directly after the latter. – Maky « talk » 19:26, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
The current formatting of this template introduces a problem in cases where it is used to mark a term that is already written in romanized Japanese, doubly so when used for the name of a Japanese person written in western order.
The article on Akira Toriyama currently begins "Akira Toriyama ( Japanese: 鳥山 明, Hepburn: Toriyama Akira)". The fact is that his name is in Japanese in all three instances, and both romanized spellings are Hepburn. What the text actually means here is "Akira Toriyama (kanji/kana: 鳥山 明, Japanese naming order: Toriyama Akira". As far as I can tell this problem extends to thousands (?) of other articles on Japanese people born after 1868, and a lesser version to all the other Japanese bio articles before 1868.
I can think of three possible solutions:
Am I missing something? Was this problem already given a technical fix I haven't seen, and the Toriyama article hasn't been fixed yet?
Hijiri 88 ( 聖 やや) 14:01, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
Should it be encased inside the if lead clause? I think just having it appear once is enough. DragonZero ( Talk · Contribs) 05:15, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
Related to this, I think, is the unanswered question I raised above about whether the "?" should follow the Hepburn or the Japanese (kanji/kana). It seems to me like it's backwards since the Hepburn will show up anyway. If people need Japanese character sets, they'll noticed with the kanji/kana. – Maky « talk » 03:24, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
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edit request to
Template:Nihongo has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
It shouldn't be anything controversial but could be settled by a straw vote. If Template size is a worry, users can just opt to use Nihongo4 instead. DragonZero ( Talk · Contribs) 06:38, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
Needs consensus on proposal 1 (Move question mark to Japanese characters) and proposal 2 (Put question mark inside a lead=yes clause). DragonZero ( Talk · Contribs) 02:11, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
The majority of articles that use Nihongo with all three fields filled should have lead=yes on its first instance, whether it's in the lead or not. Secondly, we're getting into the weird practice of using Nihongo once (Lead or not lead=yes), and nihongo 4 for the rest. About the love article, since it's just the romaji and character, it should probably use nihongo3. DragonZero ( Talk · Contribs) 19:57, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
In response to Nihonjoe's opinion that we should combine the templates, I'd like to suggest that if we do that we consider a radical simplification, with the goals of reducing the number of templates, making the HTML more efficient, and (most importantly) making the basic Nihongo template less complex for the user. I did some counting, and here are some numbers. To avoid clogging up the survey, I'll start a new section. The numbers in parentheses are the HTML output.
References
In terms of the HTML output, they all wrap the kanji in (lang="ja" xml:lang="ja") spans. That looks like the baseline essential function. The largest are Nihongo and Nihongo 3, because of the code for the question mark. Some are larger because of <span class="t_nihongo_kanji">
. I'm not sure what that does. Nihongo-s doesn't have it, and seems to display fine for me.
In terms of complexity for the user, a lot of the complexity comes from having the English as the first parameter, even though it is displayed outside the parentheses in every template except Nihongo3. IMO, if the English is going to be outside, the user can just write the English first. There is no need for this to be a parameter.
Tōkyō ({{Nihongo2|東京}} Tokyo)
. So I see no special need for Nihongo3.<ref>{{Nihongo2|東京}} Tōkyō</ref>
So I see no special need for Nihongo foot either. The only thing it does is save a few keystrokes.So it looks to me like there is an opportunity to make this much simpler and easier for the user, plus more efficient HTML. Get rid of the English parameter. Base the code on Nihongo-s (with class="t_nihongo_kanji" if that's doing something essential). For Nihongo have the kanji be the first parameter, romanization as the optional second parameter, and all of the other options as named parameters that don't depend on the order. Then also keep Nihongo2 for the times that all you want is the kanji. Also perhaps keep Nihongo-s for the times when code size is important and options are not. – Margin1522 ( talk) 21:50, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
{{Nihongo}}
, but it definitely commonly uses English—for example, you might write: {{Nihongo|rickshaw|人力車|jinrikisya|"human-powered vehicle"}}—which outputs: rickshaw (人力車, jinrikisya, "human-powered vehicle"). If we're not going to keep all those pieces together in one template, then I don't see what prupose the template serves—I'd myself just start using {{
lang|ja}} and {{
transl|ja}}.
Curly Turkey
¡gobble!
07:05, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
Over at Talk:Yu Kanda#Little question mark @ Siuenti: suggested that it may be more intuitive to place the question mark linking to Help:Installing Japanese character sets after the kanji/kana rather than after the Latin based romanji since the Japanese character set is the former, not the latter, and the question mark may suggest needing help with the romanji instead. Though Siuenti suggested this be done at the specific Kanda Yu article by substing the templates, I think it's better that this be discussed here and, should a consensus be in favor of the suggestion, implemented at the source across all articles rather than patching it through some individual articles (which, I imagine would create unnecessary discontinuity). As such, I'm moving the discussion for this here. Should the question mark be moved to the specific Japanese character set in question? ~Cheers, Ten Ton Parasol 20:12, 14 May 2017 (UTC)
(continued from above) The link to Help:Installing Japanese character sets was included back when native support for East Asian character sets weren't common, but with it being natively supported since Vista (2007), is it really needed anymore? — Farix ( t | c) 21:14, 14 May 2017 (UTC)
spanlang=ja ~ sup.noprint {
display:none !important;
}
{{
Nihongo4}}
with {{
Nihongo}}
as the only difference is the lack of a question mark in the former. Since the latter no longer has the question mark, there is no need for the former. Can we agree on that so we can task a bot to the replacement? ···
日本穣 ·
投稿 ·
Talk to Nihonjoe ·
Join WP Japan!
20:46, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
Please remove the comma between the Japanese word and its phonetic transcription. No commas appear between words and their phonetic transcriptions in phonetics literature. -- Omnipaedista ( talk) 11:42, 8 December 2017 (UTC)
I'd like to request a feature to enable setting a font-family parameter on the
Template:Nihongo to specified content.
My motivation for asking this is that some characters don't display "correctly" with the default English Wikipedia font-family for the Desktop version, which is the Monotype Sans Serif.
Example: "a̠" and "ɯ̟". But if I <span>...</span>
with the DejaVu Sans font-family, it gives: "a̠" and "ɯ̟"
So, I'd like the following example working with the IPA-ja parameter and with a customized font-family: error: {{nihongo}}: Japanese or romaji text required (
help)
I did try setting <span>...</span>
inside the
Template:Nihongo, but it results in: error: {{nihongo}}: Japanese or romaji text required (
help)
According to
DES on
Teahouse#Changing the font of a parameter value:
"A template could accept a parameter indicating in what font its contents or part of them, would be displayed, but it would have to be coded into the template, it would not operate automatically. See {{
tq}} where the |i=
forces italics, for example."
[
TRANSviada@
talk ~]$
19:53, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
<span>...</span>
inside the parameter to {{
nihongo}}. Compare with and without span:<span>...</span>
. --
Stefan2 (
talk)
21:05, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
[
TRANSviada@
talk ~]$
22:15, 28 May 2018 (UTC)I would like to request an edit to template editors to add a semicolon between the Japanese text and Hepburn romanization. The reason is in {{ lang-zh}} and {{ CJKV}}, their displays of the templates has semicolon to separate different aspects. — Wei4Green | 唯绿远大 ( talk) 16:44, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
A recent somewhat related discussion elsewhere reminded me that {{
nihongo}}
and {{
nihongo3}}
do not render in the same way that {{
lang}}
and {{
lang-ja}}
render though it is common for the nihongo and lang templates to be used together in articles.
The obvious difference (to me) is that the nihongo templates lack tool tips. Because it was interesting for me to do it, I have hacked
module:lang/utilities/sandbox, {{
nihongo/sandbox}}
, and {{
nihongo3/sandbox}}
to use _lang()
, _lang_xx_inherit()
, and _transl()
from
module:lang to render the Japanese and romaji parameters so that tooltips are available when readers mouse-over the rendered texts. You can see this in
Template:nihongo/testcases and
Template:nihongo3/testcases.
There are some cases in the test cases that are, to me, perplexing. Why, for example, would we ever want to use either of these templates to render only the English parameter value, or only the extra parameter value, or only the extra2 parameter value (or any combinations of only these three) without also rendering a Japanese or romaji value? It seems to me that one of {{{2}}}
(Japanese) or {{{3}}}
(romaji) should be required. Templates that don't include one of these should emit an error message and add the article to an appropriate tracking category so that the template can be fixed.
When |lead=yes
and when {{{1}}}
(English) has no value, why is it that {{nihongo}}
does not prefix the romanization with the hepburn wikilink:
{{nihongo||日本|Nippon|lead=yes}}
→ Nippon (
Japanese: 日本)cf. when {{{1}}}
(English) has a value
Why doesn't {{nihongo3}}
support |lead=
?
{{nihongo3|Japan|日本|Nippon|lead=yes}}
→ Nippon (日本, Japan)I haven't touched {{
nihongo2}}
because that is more-or-less a call to {{
lang|ja|...}}
(further reason, I suppose, that {{nihongo}}
and {{nihongo3}}
should move to use module:lang).
Comments?
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 14:49, 13 December 2019 (UTC)
And {{
nihongo foot/sandbox}}
and
Template:nihongo foot/testcases. This live template supports the
Help:Installing Japanese character sets link; the sandbox does not because none of {{
nihongo}}
, , or {{
nihongo2}}
{{
nihongo3}}
support that functionality.
Again, some of the supported 'functionality' makes no sense (only English or only extra or only extra2 or combinations of these).
The sandbox does not emit a footnote without at least on of Japanese, romaji, extra, or extra2; since these are the content of the footnote, if not are present it doesn't make sense to make a footnote. The sandbox fixes some text formatting errors that are present in the live template.
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 20:00, 13 December 2019 (UTC)
{{
nihongo}}
. Errors detected by the template are categorized in
Category:Nihongo template errors (0).{{
nihongo3}}
updated.{{
nihongo foot}}
updated.{{
nihongo}}
documentation has required the <kanji/kana>
positional parameter ({{{2}}}
):
{{
Administrative divisions of Japan}}
template discussed below. The error messages are there to alert editors to problems with the template; when editors do not know, or realize, that a problem exists, they will not fix the problem.{{nihongo}}
in articles that matter to you, are repaired as you would have them repaired; not as some drive-by editor might 'fix' them.{{resize|smaller|{{Nihongo|{{resize|larger|[[Subprefectures of Japan|Subprefectures]]}}}}}}
{{
resize}}
templates; not sure why {{
nihongo}}
when there isn't any kanji/Kana or rōmaji text anywhere in that template. {{nihongo}}
requires kanji/Kana and / or rōmaji so, neither of those being present, {{nihongo}}
emits an error message to say that its requirements are not being fulfilled. It would seem to me that the above should be replaced with:
[[Subprefectures of Japan|Subprefectures]]
If you're going to change this template, you ought to also change
Template:Nihongo3 to match. They now have different formatting because this template marks the romanized text with lang="ja-Latn"
(causing browsers to pick a Japanese font) and Nihongo3 doesn't. --
Bigpeteb (
talk)
21:41, 2 January 2020 (UTC)
lang="ja-Latn"
should not cause browsers to pick a Japanese fontbecause the Latn ietf tag identifies the text as using a Latin script, not a Japanese script. On my browser, Chrome 78.0.3904.108, this:
{{nihongo|English uses Latn font|Japanese uses Japanese font|Romanized uses Latn font}}
English uses Latn font<span style="font-weight: normal"> (<span title="Japanese-language text"><i lang="ja">Japanese uses Japanese font</i></span>, <span title="Hepburn transliteration"><i lang="ja-Latn">Romanized uses Latn font</i></span><span style="margin-left:.09em">)</span></span>
{{
nihongo3}}
and {{
nihongo foot}}
but, because no one said anything about these proposed updates, it was not clear to me what kind of torches and pitchforks uprising I would receive so I minimized my possible pain by limiting the update to {{
nihongo}}
. The other two should be updated together, assuming that, the holidays mostly over, there isn't a torches-and-pitchforks-uprising from returning editors.lang="ja-Latn"
text appears in a Japanese font, identical to the lang="ja"
text. --
Bigpeteb (
talk)
00:09, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
Sometimes Japanese names have = signs in them, which appears to throw up this error even though it was presumably displaying properly before the change. I can fix it by doing this but is there a better solution? — Xezbeth ( talk) 05:37, 6 January 2020 (UTC)
{{nihongo}}
is not broken. This is a problem that occurs with any template that uses positional parameters as {{nihongo}}
does.{{
nihongo}}
:
{{{1}}}
gets the value <english>
{{{2}}}
gets the value <japanese>
{{{3}}}
gets the value <romaji>
=
), MediaWiki interprets that as a named parameter.{{{1}}}
with a value of "Cock Robin Ondo"
and a named parameter, クック
that has the assigned value of ロビン音頭
. MediaWiki then calls {{nihongo}}
and passes it these two parameters. Nihongo does not recognize クック
as a valid parameter name and did not get a <japanese>
positional parameter so it emits the error message. (The previous version of this template simply ignored the |クック=
parameter so it only displayed "Cock Robin Ondo".)<nowiki>...</nowiki>
tag is removed and replaced with a stripmarker which is, at the end, replaced by the content of the <nowiki>...</nowiki>
tag). The common fix to these assignment-operator-in-positional-parameter-value problems it to use a number as a parameter name so while this does not work:
{{nihongo|"Cock Robin Ondo"|クック=ロビン音頭}}
→ error: {{nihongo}}: Japanese or romaji text required (
help)|2=クック=ロビン音頭
does
{{nihongo|"Cock Robin Ondo"|2=クック=ロビン音頭}}
→ "Cock Robin Ondo" (クック=ロビン音頭)