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Hi everyone. This is to give reason as to why the 2010 year is included in the navbox and why it should remain, along with the specified teams.
The USL sued all the teams that were leaving, claiming that they were still under contract with their league for at least one more year. In order for a league to have Division 2 "Sanction" under the USSF, they must have a minimum of 8 teams. The USSF intervened in the dispute between the two leagues and the seven teams in question. The USSF determined that of the seven, three teams (FC Tampa, NSC Minnesota Stars, and the Rochester Rhinos) were truly the only teams that still had a contractual obligation to the USL for one last year. Meaning, both leagues were left with 6 teams. Again, both leagues were still operational and existing. However, the USL was stripped of its division 2 status while the NASL was not granted that right. Again, division status and league existence are two separate issues, and both leagues were still recognized as established and in effect. After a couple of months of negotiations between both leagues, with the USSF serving as mediator, in early 2010, the two leagues came to an agreement for the sake of the 2010 year to work together under the USSF. The USSF created a temporary entity for the 2010 year known as the USSF Division 2 Professional League. It would automatically gain division 2 status by receiving all twelve teams (the six from each side), but they will be representing their respective contractual league. Hence the USL Conference and the NASL conference. Effectively, each conference was the initial instance of the NASL and the final year of the USL First Division (as the following year the USL would merge two tiers to create the USL-Pro). This special league allowed for interplay, or as the head of the USSF, Sunil Gulati, stated - intraplay, where the teams from both sides played against each other under one medium.
Therefore, all teams that played for the NASL conference were part of the new NASL's legcacy (as they were not only under contract but also represented them), and the same for the teams in the USL. Since Rochester never officially represented the NASL in play, they are not mentioned.
Still, the NASL's first season as a sole Division 2 status gained league was in 2011. I placed the 2010 season in parenthesis (e.g. (2010)) to make note that this year was a significant part of the seasons of the league's history, but to also differentiate it from the rest. Again, I am not saying that 2010 is the same as 2011 and onward, but it should be placed as it is specific to what the league was a part of during that year. And guys, let's stop nitpicking at everything, and move on to developing the pages which is more productive. Cheers NYCWikiKid ( talk) 21:38, 5 November 2013 (UTC)
I don't see the problem with keeping 2010 in the template. This is an Encyclopedic article. The NASL did formed in 2009. The first season was a combined USL/NASL league, "Combined" league, two leagues combined into one. If you want a source, how about this one? http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/66/united-states/2010/01/07/1731779/us-soccer-federation-to-oversee-combined-naslusl-league -- Coquidragon ( talk) 01:07, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
What about this? Dated January 2010. http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/66/united-states/2010/01/07/1731779/us-soccer-federation-to-oversee-combined-naslusl-league NASL was founded in 2009; in 2010, for legal purposes, it was not sanctioned by USSF, but along with USL, competed in the USSF-D2; it was then sanctioned and started as an official league in 2011. Existing as a legal entity and being sanctioned are two very different matters. -- Coquidragon ( talk) 23:19, 11 November 2013 (UTC)
There is a lot of conversing here about whether or not the North American Soccer League existed in 2009. I want to thank the last three editors, prior to these words, for being committed to exchange ideas in a constructive way. Now, let's put things into perspective as I am seeing that some may be placing concepts where they don't go. Like I already stated above, the NASL was formed in 2009. The league was formed and it was fully operational. It was without any sanction. It was seeking Division 2, but the league was still alive and recognized. Further, I read somethings above about the USL which are misleading. The USL is an organization first. And within the organization there are several leagues. Hence the name United Soccer Leagues (plural). Unfortunately, the Wikipedia articles on the USL are somewhat unorganized and create a lot of confusion on its history. The USL First Division, a league within the USL, lost its second division status. However, it still existed. The NASL was not granted 2 division status yet. Both leagues arrived to a compromise with the USSF. The teams under contract from both leagues represented the leagues respectively within the USSF sanctioned Division 2 Pro League only as a means to maintain play in 2010. Again, each league was represented within the USSF D2 PL, and the teams were still under contract with the two leagues. 2010 is placed in parenthesis in the template as a reference to the history of the NASL in this year. This should not be an issue as the parenthesis indicates a distinction between what occurred in 2010 and 2011.
And lastly, someone way above is manipulating, or taking out of context, what I have previously said. Yes I did say that 2010 and 2011 were not the same, only after explaining in detail what the difference was between them in terms of what the NASL went through - non division status, to division status. So if you are going to quote me, do so properly where the context is solid. So far, there is no consensus met here by the only six people speaking. Let's try to be reasonable and stick to the facts, and not personal beliefs. NYCWikiKid ( talk) 06:09, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
Why do I need to list an article to counter something that you claim is a fact when you have not produced a single score from league play as I requested. But to make you happy:
And stop lying that the NASL was recognized in 2009. That's completely inaccurate. The TOA's choice of league name was recognized, but there was no league.
I believe that the difference is you believe that this template is about the organization called NASL and I believe that this article should be about the league called NASL. The fact that you linked teams, that would usually appear in a template related to a league doesn't help resolve my concerns. The fact that only the team owners, not the players or staff, were ever involved in the organization called NASL would also, in my mind at least, preclude an article on the team from being linked in relation to the organization. The excluded teams never participated in the league so they should not be listed in the league. The correct place to list these teams in an article on the team that discusses the foundation of the league and the ivolvement of the team owners. Anthing else is likely to confuse readers. Walter Görlitz ( talk) 07:39, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
No point in avoiding the names used in the articles in this template. Especially if you're not going to remove them all (you missed several both times you made this edit). In other countries the "FC" is there because it actually signifies "Football Club"; in this case it's just part of the branding. If "FC" needs to be removed from any of these it should be removed from the article titles as well.-- Cúchullain t/ c 22:06, 18 February 2014 (UTC)
![]() | This template does not require a rating on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||
|
![]() | This template was considered for deletion on 10 February 2022. The result of the discussion was "merge". |
Hi everyone. This is to give reason as to why the 2010 year is included in the navbox and why it should remain, along with the specified teams.
The USL sued all the teams that were leaving, claiming that they were still under contract with their league for at least one more year. In order for a league to have Division 2 "Sanction" under the USSF, they must have a minimum of 8 teams. The USSF intervened in the dispute between the two leagues and the seven teams in question. The USSF determined that of the seven, three teams (FC Tampa, NSC Minnesota Stars, and the Rochester Rhinos) were truly the only teams that still had a contractual obligation to the USL for one last year. Meaning, both leagues were left with 6 teams. Again, both leagues were still operational and existing. However, the USL was stripped of its division 2 status while the NASL was not granted that right. Again, division status and league existence are two separate issues, and both leagues were still recognized as established and in effect. After a couple of months of negotiations between both leagues, with the USSF serving as mediator, in early 2010, the two leagues came to an agreement for the sake of the 2010 year to work together under the USSF. The USSF created a temporary entity for the 2010 year known as the USSF Division 2 Professional League. It would automatically gain division 2 status by receiving all twelve teams (the six from each side), but they will be representing their respective contractual league. Hence the USL Conference and the NASL conference. Effectively, each conference was the initial instance of the NASL and the final year of the USL First Division (as the following year the USL would merge two tiers to create the USL-Pro). This special league allowed for interplay, or as the head of the USSF, Sunil Gulati, stated - intraplay, where the teams from both sides played against each other under one medium.
Therefore, all teams that played for the NASL conference were part of the new NASL's legcacy (as they were not only under contract but also represented them), and the same for the teams in the USL. Since Rochester never officially represented the NASL in play, they are not mentioned.
Still, the NASL's first season as a sole Division 2 status gained league was in 2011. I placed the 2010 season in parenthesis (e.g. (2010)) to make note that this year was a significant part of the seasons of the league's history, but to also differentiate it from the rest. Again, I am not saying that 2010 is the same as 2011 and onward, but it should be placed as it is specific to what the league was a part of during that year. And guys, let's stop nitpicking at everything, and move on to developing the pages which is more productive. Cheers NYCWikiKid ( talk) 21:38, 5 November 2013 (UTC)
I don't see the problem with keeping 2010 in the template. This is an Encyclopedic article. The NASL did formed in 2009. The first season was a combined USL/NASL league, "Combined" league, two leagues combined into one. If you want a source, how about this one? http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/66/united-states/2010/01/07/1731779/us-soccer-federation-to-oversee-combined-naslusl-league -- Coquidragon ( talk) 01:07, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
What about this? Dated January 2010. http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/66/united-states/2010/01/07/1731779/us-soccer-federation-to-oversee-combined-naslusl-league NASL was founded in 2009; in 2010, for legal purposes, it was not sanctioned by USSF, but along with USL, competed in the USSF-D2; it was then sanctioned and started as an official league in 2011. Existing as a legal entity and being sanctioned are two very different matters. -- Coquidragon ( talk) 23:19, 11 November 2013 (UTC)
There is a lot of conversing here about whether or not the North American Soccer League existed in 2009. I want to thank the last three editors, prior to these words, for being committed to exchange ideas in a constructive way. Now, let's put things into perspective as I am seeing that some may be placing concepts where they don't go. Like I already stated above, the NASL was formed in 2009. The league was formed and it was fully operational. It was without any sanction. It was seeking Division 2, but the league was still alive and recognized. Further, I read somethings above about the USL which are misleading. The USL is an organization first. And within the organization there are several leagues. Hence the name United Soccer Leagues (plural). Unfortunately, the Wikipedia articles on the USL are somewhat unorganized and create a lot of confusion on its history. The USL First Division, a league within the USL, lost its second division status. However, it still existed. The NASL was not granted 2 division status yet. Both leagues arrived to a compromise with the USSF. The teams under contract from both leagues represented the leagues respectively within the USSF sanctioned Division 2 Pro League only as a means to maintain play in 2010. Again, each league was represented within the USSF D2 PL, and the teams were still under contract with the two leagues. 2010 is placed in parenthesis in the template as a reference to the history of the NASL in this year. This should not be an issue as the parenthesis indicates a distinction between what occurred in 2010 and 2011.
And lastly, someone way above is manipulating, or taking out of context, what I have previously said. Yes I did say that 2010 and 2011 were not the same, only after explaining in detail what the difference was between them in terms of what the NASL went through - non division status, to division status. So if you are going to quote me, do so properly where the context is solid. So far, there is no consensus met here by the only six people speaking. Let's try to be reasonable and stick to the facts, and not personal beliefs. NYCWikiKid ( talk) 06:09, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
Why do I need to list an article to counter something that you claim is a fact when you have not produced a single score from league play as I requested. But to make you happy:
And stop lying that the NASL was recognized in 2009. That's completely inaccurate. The TOA's choice of league name was recognized, but there was no league.
I believe that the difference is you believe that this template is about the organization called NASL and I believe that this article should be about the league called NASL. The fact that you linked teams, that would usually appear in a template related to a league doesn't help resolve my concerns. The fact that only the team owners, not the players or staff, were ever involved in the organization called NASL would also, in my mind at least, preclude an article on the team from being linked in relation to the organization. The excluded teams never participated in the league so they should not be listed in the league. The correct place to list these teams in an article on the team that discusses the foundation of the league and the ivolvement of the team owners. Anthing else is likely to confuse readers. Walter Görlitz ( talk) 07:39, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
No point in avoiding the names used in the articles in this template. Especially if you're not going to remove them all (you missed several both times you made this edit). In other countries the "FC" is there because it actually signifies "Football Club"; in this case it's just part of the branding. If "FC" needs to be removed from any of these it should be removed from the article titles as well.-- Cúchullain t/ c 22:06, 18 February 2014 (UTC)