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This template currently uses the hiddenStructure technique of hiding rows for data that has not been declared in the template usage call. However, using hiddenStructure does not hide the rows when pages using the template are viewed in text mode with lynx or with a screen reader for the blind. I've seen comments elsewhere that {{ qif}} (which was itself survived a deletion vote in January) does not have this problem, but it runs afoul of users who wave the WP:AUM banner. Personally, I have no strong preference for either as the arguments are quite convincing on both sides. This template was written with hiddenStructure because it's easier to read and code. Until we have a formal policy in favor of one method over the other, it seems easiest and best for the moment to keep using hiddenStructure here. Slambo (Speak) 19:09, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
|- {{qif|test={{{param|}}}|then= ! Header | {{{param}}} }}
After a little more experimentation, I have a working test template that matches this template's functionality but using m:ParserFunctions instead of hiddenStructure or {{ qif}} (which is now the subject of an MFD in order to deprecate it). When I tried looking at my template usage test page in lynx, it still showed the parameters that were unused. Slambo (Speak) 20:17, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
Could someone who knows what they're doing link "Class" to class (locomotive)? Mangoe 18:19, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
Hi there,
I quite like using this infobox template, but the only limitation I find is that to provide both imperial and metric measurements can get a little messy. I'm not greatly fussed by imperial vs metric (I come from one of those countries where both systems are still in common use and we're pretty good at converting!) however, I understand that the Wikipedia manual of style suggests "give the metric equivalent as a courtesy". Furthermore, even if I choose to leave my articles with imperial measures only, a number of editors will seek out articles with imperial measures and insert metric equivalents as happened to the Victorian Railways H class and Victorian Railways N class articles I originally authored.
I see no point to providing metric measures only, given that I'm writing about locomotives where all design parameters were quoted in imperial units, as this makes the article much harder for someone to use when comparing other historical sources quoting imperial measures.
I find the imperial/metric thing particularly messy if you are trying to also include details of a design change to a locomotive, eg "total weight: X lbs (XX kg) as built, Y lbs (YY kg) after superheater installation".
I'm not sure how to best handle this. Could we consider modifying the infobox so that it splits the cells for those fields which require a measurement such as lbs, ft etc into two columns, with the second column for metric measurements an optional extra? Zzrbiker 05:56, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
I find in some steam locomotive articles that the definition of "weight" as "The locomotive's total weight" is a source of confusion. In some cases this has been taken to mean the total weight of the locomotive and tender (already covered by the rubric "locotenderweight" - the combined locomotive and tender total weight). If I have understood right, "weight" stands for the weight of the locomotive (power unit) alone, presumably in working order. This is a far more useful criterion if we remember that a steam locomotive can be attached to several different tenders in the course of its career. For instance giving the loco+tender weight for French locomotives would be particularly meaningless as locomotives and tenders were maintained by separate services and had more or less independent careers.-- John of Paris 17:38, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
Strange nobody has taken up this issue. Not being very IT literate I hesitate to mess with the template, but suggest it is really urgent to change the mark-up to "weight loco" instead of "total weight" which should avoid confusion for the steam folk whilst not disturbing the others.-- John of Paris 08:58, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
Well thanks pals! - for nothing. I've held my breath, modified the template and it seems to work all right. Someone should check all the same.-- John of Paris ( talk) 11:05, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
There is a growing move towards the provision of 'ALT' text for images within WP ( WP:ALT). This is text that will be displayed if the image cannot be loaded or, more importantly, if a visually-impaired user is making use of a screen-reader: the ALT text will be read out loud, before the caption, to describe what the picture shows. (Incidentally, for validated HTML code, ALL images must have alt text defined.)
In
SR Merchant Navy class I have managed to fool the infobox into including the alt text (by using the {{
!}}
template, which sneaks-in a pipe symbol) by effectively adding it to the end of the filename. (See the alt text for each image using the 'toolbox' on the article's talk page.) A side-effect is that it shows as 'title' text, which would not normally be the case.
It would be much better if there were an 'alt = ' field provided to apply the text to the image correctly. My Parser function knowledge is rusty, so I'd rather someone else attempted this!
EdJogg ( talk) 02:21, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
The first line of the documentation on the main page reads:
The first line above reads:
Neither appears to be the whole story. I have just noticed that if you leave the image size blank, as in
| imagesize =
you don't get an image. If you remove the line, you get the default size.
What I'd really cheer for is a change to the template to produce the default if it's left blank. In general, I'm reluctant to remove blank parameter lines, as the parameter might be needed in the future. This is particularly true of images, which often come after the article. If that's hard, then I'll change the documentation. . . . . Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward ( talk • contribs) 00:06, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
So we've got one of those tiresome situations where someone is demanding "consensus" before changes are made. I suppose that means leaving a comment here, seeing nobody oppose it (because it's a trivial change to make the infobox look better) and reinstating it. I removed the "bordered" CSS class from the template, so as to better fit with almost all other automotive infobox templates on the encyclopedia. There is no particular reason for having borders here other than that this template has maintained its design since before infobox templates had a standard look and feel (and of course the possibility that people who use the undo button as a veto have discouraged editors from working on it). As such, they should be removed again unless there's some genuinely pressing reason to keep them. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 13:26, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
There are five parameters which place the transcluding article into
Category:Unusual parameters of Infobox locomotive template. Four of these are shown as deprecated near the bottom of the documentation; however |framesize=
is not so listed, but instead is shown in the blank templates and the examples. If |framesize=
is deprecated, the documentation should be fixed; if not, the category should be removed. --
Redrose64 (
talk)
20:58, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
Can there be a 'notes' section - in some cases there is needed some disambugation between near types using *†‡ symbols and no place to put the info eg in MaK_/_Vossloh_G1206 they are in the career section.
I've made a version here Template:Infobox_locomotive/sandbox - if ok can implement and add to documentation. (I know there is 'hatnote' but that's not at the bottom? what's that for?) Sf5xeplus ( talk) 10:52, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
There's now another discussion available at Template talk:Infobox train about default image sizes if anyone has an opinion. Sf5xeplus ( talk) 07:05, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
The notes say the default imagesize is 300, but it appears to be thumbnail sized which is about 200 (and a bit small)
Can it be changed to 300? I don't know how.
Would this work:?
{{#if:{{{image|}}}|{{!}} colspan=2 style="text-align: center" {{!}} [[File:{{{image}}}| {{#if:{{{imagesize|}}}|{{{imagesize}}}|300}} }}px|frameless}}|alt={{{alt|}}}]]}}
Sf5xeplus ( talk) 15:50, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
I've gotten by quite well so far with the Infobox locomotive template while writing articles on electrics and diesels, but now that I've started on steam I've discovered a need for a separate Infobox locomotive tender, alternatively to either expand Infobox locomotive or to create a subsection inside it to cover steam loco tenders, since the existing tender-specific parameters (eg tenderweight, tendertype, tendercap) are not sufficient. My own preference would be for a subsection with a coloured heading line above Railroad, rather than a separate Infobox locomotive tender. Suggested parameters are:
| type =
| image = (debatable, nice to have but not essential)
| alt = ditto
| imagesize = ditto
| caption = ditto
| hatnote = ditto
| designer =
| builder =
| ordernumber =
| serialnumber =
| builddate =
| totalproduction =
| rebuilder =
| rebuilddate =
| bogies =
| wheeldiameter =
| wheelbase =
| length =
| width =
| height =
| axleload =
| emptyweight =
| workorderweight =
| coalcap =
| fueloilcap =
| watercap =
| railroad = ditto
| notes = eg Mechanical stoker
There may be more...
Examples of what I've done so far by adding a second truncated Infobox locomotive template are
South African Class 25NC 4-8-4 and
South African Class 26 4-8-4.
André Kritzinger 22:25, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
Is there a single parameter which can be relied upon, to determine whether the subject of the infobox is a locomotive type or an individual locomotive? Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 18:16, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
How about just putting it in the "Name" parameter? eg
| name = South Africa's Red Devil or
| name = Chessie System's B&O GM50?
André Kritzinger 22:25, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
|roadnumber=1234
--
Redrose64 (
talk)
19:14, 6 November 2010 (UTC)Here's an arbitrary split:
Infobox locomotive | name = | powertype = | image = | alt = | imagesize = 300 | caption = | hatnote = | designer = | builder = | ordernumber = | serialnumber = | buildmodel = | builddate = | totalproduction = | rebuilder = | rebuilddate = | numberrebuilt = | whytetype = | aarwheels = | uicclass = | gauge = | trucks = | bogies = | leadingdiameter = | driverdiameter = | wheeldiameter = | trailingdiameter = | minimumcurve = | wheelbase = | length = | width = | height = | framesize = | axleload = | weightondrivers = | locoweight = | fueltype = | fuelcap = | lubecap = | coolantcap = | watercap = | sandcap = | consumption = | watercons = | electricsystem = | collectionmethod = | tractionmotors = | transmission = | multipleworking = | topspeed = | poweroutput = | tractiveeffort = | factorofadhesion = | trainheating = | locobrakes = | locobrakeforce = | trainbrakes = | safety = | railroad = | railroadclass = | powerclass = | numinclass = | roadnumber = | officialname = | nicknames = | axleloadclass = | locale = | deliverydate = | firstrundate = | lastrundate = | retiredate = | withdrawndate = | preservedunits = | restoredate = | scrapdate = | currentowner = | disposition = | notes =
(just under the 80 fields limit I think)
Steam and diesel (ie combustion) type
Steam specific
| boiler = | boilerpressure = | feedwaterheater = | firearea = | tubearea = | fluearea = | tubesandflues = | fireboxarea = | totalsurface = | superheatertype = | superheaterarea = | frontcylindersize= | rearcylindersize = | hpcylindersize = | lpcylindersize = | valvegear = | valvetype = | valvetravel = | valvelap = | valvelead = | tenderweight = | locotenderweight = | tendertype = | tendercap =
(used for both ??) | cylindercount = | cylindersize =
Diesel specific
| primemover = | rpmrange = | enginetype = | aspiration = | displacement = | alternator = | generator =
All the steam and diesel bits could be combined into a single child ("infobox:rail vehicle combustion" ?), or another way, depending on if there is a bigger plan. If more need to be removed from the main then I'd suggest splitting off all the ones that relate to builders, build_model_numbers, dates and work histories.. Is this workable, or was something more systematic wanted? 83.100.200.4 ( talk) 02:35, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
alternative split if convert doesn't work
|
---|
Infobox locomotive' + name = + powertype = + image = + alt = + imagesize = 300 + caption = + hatnote = + gauge = + trucks = + bogies = + leadingdiameter = + driverdiameter = + wheeldiameter = + trailingdiameter = + minimumcurve = + wheelbase = + length = + width = + height = + framesize = + axleload = + weightondrivers = + locoweight = + fueltype = + fuelcap = + lubecap = + coolantcap = + watercap = + sandcap = + consumption = + watercons = + electricsystem = + collectionmethod = + tractionmotors = + transmission = + multipleworking = + topspeed = + poweroutput = + tractiveeffort = + factorofadhesion = + trainheating = + locobrakes = + locobrakeforce = + trainbrakes = + boiler = + boilerpressure = + feedwaterheater = + firearea = + tubearea = + fluearea = + tubesandflues = + fireboxarea = + totalsurface = + superheatertype = + superheaterarea = + frontcylindersize= + rearcylindersize = + hpcylindersize = + lpcylindersize = + valvegear = + valvetype = + valvetravel = + valvelap = + valvelead = + tenderweight = + locotenderweight = + tendertype = + tendercap = + cylindercount = + cylindersize = + rpmrange = + displacement = + alternator = + generator =
|
{{
!}}
which displays as |. --
Redrose64 (
talk)
15:55, 3 January 2011 (UTC)Here is the current state of affairs in terms of each field, and how often each one is being used. Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 23:21, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
Count | Field | Count | Field | Count | Field | Count | Field |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
1 | watercons | 2 | framesize | 2 | valvetravel | 2 | service |
4 | frontcylindersize | 4 | serviceclass | 4 | rearcylindersize | 8 | consumption |
11 | trailingsize | 13 | alt | 16 | notes | 18 | leadingsize |
23 | feedwaterheater | 24 | fluearea | 27 | trucks | 28 | hatnote |
29 | rebuilder | 31 | coolantcap | 32 | lubecap | 32 | numberrebuilt |
33 | lpcylindersize | 33 | hpcylindersize | 33 | sandcap | 36 | tendertype |
43 | rebuilddate | 44 | tubesandflues | 44 | restoredate | 45 | alternator |
46 | ordernumber | 46 | tendercap | 63 | scrapdate | 70 | superheatertype |
70 | safety | 77 | locobrakeforce | 78 | rpmrange | 79 | valvetype |
80 | boiler | 82 | lastrundate | 83 | generator | 85 | displacement |
86 | minimumcurve | 101 | tubearea | 104 | preservedunits | 107 | factorofadhesion |
112 | multipleworking | 123 | trainheating | 125 | bogies | 134 | officialname |
141 | locotenderweight | 145 | superheaterarea | 157 | trailingdiameter | 158 | fireboxarea |
164 | imagesize | 164 | aspiration | 167 | driversize | 171 | totalsurface |
172 | currentowner | 172 | axleloadclass | 173 | tenderweight | 185 | deliverydate |
192 | nicknames | 193 | withdrawndate | 237 | collectionmethod | 242 | powerclass |
243 | valvegear | 259 | electricsystem | 264 | leadingdiameter | 274 | locobrakes |
302 | enginetype | 318 | firstrundate | 319 | firearea | 323 | axleload |
350 | weightondrivers | 359 | watercap | 368 | transmission | 370 | tractionmotors |
391 | trainbrakes | 400 | wheeldiameter | 406 | locale | 416 | retiredate |
458 | serialnumber | 462 | buildmodel | 469 | width | 469 | wheelbase |
476 | aarwheels | 502 | weight | 511 | primemover | 515 | height |
517 | numinclass | 531 | designer | 550 | fuelcap | 695 | fueltype |
704 | driverdiameter | 728 | boilerpressure | 735 | railroadclass | 822 | disposition |
849 | topspeed | 885 | cylindersize | 945 | roadnumber | 965 | locoweight |
1014 | cylindercount | 1034 | poweroutput | 1057 | whytetype | 1103 | uicclass |
1167 | length | 1230 | tractiveeffort | 1289 | totalproduction | 1309 | caption |
1310 | railroad | 1349 | image | 1819 | gauge | 1829 | builddate |
1899 | builder | 2051 | powertype | 2085 | name |
|hpcylindersize=
, or it will be the low pressure cyl (as with the
LNWR Class A), in which case use |lpcylindersize=
. As for different pressures, the h.p. cyls will be fed at boiler pressure (or nearly so, there is always a loss between regulator and steam chest), whereas the pressure of the l.p. cyls is very much dependent upon the expansion ratio of the h.p. cyls and so is not normally quoted, being of theoretical, not practical value. --
Redrose64 (
talk)
16:29, 3 January 2011 (UTC)I believe this was discussed here somewhere else a long time ago - I was wondering if anyone was going to convert this infobox to the 'standard format' type with no coloured sections, and less horizontal field separating lines? (I could try this myself but would fail or make a mess probably). Sf5xeplus ( talk) 18:35, 1 January 2011 (UTC)
I note that some articles on Diesel or electric multiple units are using {{
Infobox locomotive}}
, and not {{
Infobox train}}
. I've recently fixed up
Bombadier Talent; what's the best way of detecting these misuses? --
Redrose64 (
talk)
17:10, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
{{
Infobox Station}}
has a parameter |nrhp=
which allows a {{
infobox nrhp}}
to be nested - see, for example,
Slidell (Amtrak station). If {{
infobox locomotive}}
had similar, it would be of assistance on articles like
Virginia and Truckee Railroad No. 27, since some steam locos in the USA are registered with NRHP. (this follows on from thread started yesterday at
Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Trains/Locomotives task force#Virginia and Truckee Railroad No. 27). --
Redrose64 (
talk)
10:59, 10 January 2011 (UTC)Most of these are simple typos in the field names (firstrundatre -> firstrundate), but some may require more thought. I have already cleaned up about a hundred or so, but there are more to do. Feel free to help out if you have time. It would be great to remove them as they are fixed, but it's not critical, since I can just regenerate the list (it takes about 20 minutes). Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 22:35, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
Field | Article(s) |
---|---|
service | British Rail Class 67, EMD GP38-2, HŽ series 2062, RENFE Class 354, SNCB Class 28 (Bombardier), SNCF Class CC 72100, ČSD Class ES 499.1 |
serviceclass | British Rail Class 67, EMD GP38-2, EMD SD40, EMD SDP45, HŽ series 2062, RENFE Class 352, RENFE Class 354, SNCB Class 28 (Bombardier) |
Something that hasn't yet been mentioned is unnamed (positional) parameters - the template doesn't recognise any of these, but they may have been introduced by accident. For example, the |leadingsize|
lacking a trailing equal sign which I fixed with
this edit. --
Redrose64 (
talk)
18:04, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
name=value|
}}
Regarding
these recent changes; I see no talk page discussion for this. Adding the |powersupply=
parameter is one thing; changing how five others display is another, and
WP:CONSENSUS should have been obtained.
I for one do not approve of the change: whilst "mass" may be the correct scientific term, most books and magazines that I encounter use the word "weight" and I would prefer that we continue to use that term. -- Redrose64 ( talk) 19:34, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
André Kritzinger 12:10, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
Instead of the field name "Frame size", how about just calling it "Frame"?
The reason is that on all 73 South African steam locomotives I've written articles on to date, I could not find information on the frame size of any of them. On all of them, however, there is a distinction on whether the locomotive had a bar frame or plate frame, and since there's no field for that, I've been using the "Frame size" field for that feature.
André Kritzinger (
talk)
20:27, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
I would like to suggest an additional "Boiler" field to use for the height of the boiler centre line above the railhead. In the steam era it was a long standing principle that this centre line height should not exceed twice the track gauge, or 7 feet on Cape gauge locomotives. Beatty of the CGR, for example, only resorted to exceeding this limit in 1906 in order to enable a deeper firebox. I could add that information in the existing boiler field, but as it is I already use that field to show both size dimensions - the boiler diameter AND the distance between tube plates or interior length. The descriptions could then be:
Is this do-able? André Kritzinger ( talk) 00:18, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
Is it possible to specify the width of the left (headings) column?
As it is now, the width is automatically adjusted, occasionally with undesired results.
André Kritzinger (
talk)
23:15, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
style="max-width: 33%"
work for columns? Thanks!
Plastikspork
―Œ(talk)
23:20, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
Hi folks. Could we please consider changing the fieldname "locale" to the more internationally recognised and more accurate "location", "locality" or "country". I believe "locale" is very much American vernacular for "locality", but it is rare in Europe and elsewhere. Also, according to the international Oxford Dictionary of English, "locale" is strictly "a place where something happens" or "has particular events associated with it" i.e. it's more like a "venue", whereas the other two terms are just used for the place, position or site of something. Thanks. -- Bermicourt ( talk) 08:57, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
Is "transmission" the best place to put details regarding a locomotive's propulsion system? Especially with electric and more modern locomotives how the power is transmitted to the wheels can be a fairly complex affair. I'm perfectly happy with dumping these details into the transmission heading, but perhaps a new field might be more prudent. Sturmovik ( talk) 18:42, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
|tractionmotors=
is used for electric and Diesel-electric locos; whilst Diesel-electric locos may also use either |alternator=
or |generator=
. --
Redrose64 (
talk)
19:51, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
Could someone add truck and/or bogie centers (truck to truck) to the template as an optional parameter? This would of course apply to diesel locomotives, diesel electric locomotives and electric locomotives only. Peter Horn User talk 14:50, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
Yes Plastikspork, acceleration and deceleration, that's exactly what I wanted. Peter Horn User talk 04:43, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
Can some one please add the field (parameter) "|coupling =" and in such manner that it links to railway coupling? This field is available in template:Infobox train. Peter Horn User talk 22:15, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
{{
Infobox German railway vehicle}}
has additional fields for
rack railway locomotives.
Peter Horn
User talk
23:34, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
Would some editors like look at this infobox - it would seem sensible to convert this to the english language infoboxes. Sf5xeplus ( talk) 17:39, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
Sample 1 | |||||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Sample 2 | |||||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Sample 3 | |||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Sample 4 | |||||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Many tecnologically challenged contributors/users/editors come up with sample No.1 & 3 for electric and diesel-electric locomotives respectively. Sample No.2 & 4 shows what it should be. Peter Horn User talk 14:49, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
The template was changed by User:Lfdder today and the separating lines between sections were removed in the process. It looks nice and clean, but I find it hard on the eyes, especially when the titles in the left column are not one-liners and even worse when the info in both columns are multiple-liners. I'm creating an article right now and I find it strainful on the eyes, so I can only imagine how much worse will it be for the reader! André Kritzinger ( talk) 21:59, 21 September 2013 (UTC)
For steam locomotives there should be the parameter |labelXX = [[Cylinder (locomotive)|Cylinders]] Peter Horn User talk 04:44, 6 May 2014 (UTC)
Please see Llynvi and Ogmore Railway. The template shows header "Career", even when it is empty. It would be better if it is hidden. - DePiep ( talk) 20:54, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
Template:Infobox German railway vehicle has Pivot pitch Drehzapfenabstand, Distance between bogie pivots or pins (or center plates). This is a nice, unambiguous, distinction from wheel base. Peter Horn User talk 14:26, 5 November 2014 (UTC) Peter Horn User talk 14:49, 5 November 2014 (UTC) Peter Horn User talk 14:57, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
The TFD nomination that is posted at the top of the template right now looks likely to result in a merge. I've started a quick experiment to map the parameters from the German template to this one at User:Slambo/DE infobox. I'd be interested to hear other editors' thoughts on the matter. Thanks. Slambo (Speak) 16:37, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
|Fußbodenhöhe=
for floor height or |Türen=
for doors) that do not apply to locomotives. If those parameters are used, it will show {{
Infobox train}} instead. Please take a moment to review my test template and provide feedback as needed. Thanks!
Slambo
(Speak)
21:48, 30 December 2014 (UTC)IE 201 Class, a dug in the short ton value {{convert|108.862|t} {{convert|108.862|t} Peter Horn User talk 01:34, 6 June 2015 (UTC)
{{
Infobox locomotive}}
- it's the parameters supplied to {{
convert}}
. But if you were to post your question at
Template talk:Convert, they would direct you to
Template:Convert#Default rounding. --
Redrose64 (
talk)
19:16, 6 June 2015 (UTC)
{{convert|120|ST|MT LT|order=flip|sigfig=4}}
would produce "108.9 metric tons; 107.1 long tons (120 short tons)" - which seems a bit more sensible. Unfortunately, in the
IE 201 Class article, the weight is not referenced so it is impossible to tell where the source for the weight is or what the original units were...
Robevans123 (
talk)
22:47, 6 June 2015 (UTC)This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 |
This template currently uses the hiddenStructure technique of hiding rows for data that has not been declared in the template usage call. However, using hiddenStructure does not hide the rows when pages using the template are viewed in text mode with lynx or with a screen reader for the blind. I've seen comments elsewhere that {{ qif}} (which was itself survived a deletion vote in January) does not have this problem, but it runs afoul of users who wave the WP:AUM banner. Personally, I have no strong preference for either as the arguments are quite convincing on both sides. This template was written with hiddenStructure because it's easier to read and code. Until we have a formal policy in favor of one method over the other, it seems easiest and best for the moment to keep using hiddenStructure here. Slambo (Speak) 19:09, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
|- {{qif|test={{{param|}}}|then= ! Header | {{{param}}} }}
After a little more experimentation, I have a working test template that matches this template's functionality but using m:ParserFunctions instead of hiddenStructure or {{ qif}} (which is now the subject of an MFD in order to deprecate it). When I tried looking at my template usage test page in lynx, it still showed the parameters that were unused. Slambo (Speak) 20:17, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
Could someone who knows what they're doing link "Class" to class (locomotive)? Mangoe 18:19, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
Hi there,
I quite like using this infobox template, but the only limitation I find is that to provide both imperial and metric measurements can get a little messy. I'm not greatly fussed by imperial vs metric (I come from one of those countries where both systems are still in common use and we're pretty good at converting!) however, I understand that the Wikipedia manual of style suggests "give the metric equivalent as a courtesy". Furthermore, even if I choose to leave my articles with imperial measures only, a number of editors will seek out articles with imperial measures and insert metric equivalents as happened to the Victorian Railways H class and Victorian Railways N class articles I originally authored.
I see no point to providing metric measures only, given that I'm writing about locomotives where all design parameters were quoted in imperial units, as this makes the article much harder for someone to use when comparing other historical sources quoting imperial measures.
I find the imperial/metric thing particularly messy if you are trying to also include details of a design change to a locomotive, eg "total weight: X lbs (XX kg) as built, Y lbs (YY kg) after superheater installation".
I'm not sure how to best handle this. Could we consider modifying the infobox so that it splits the cells for those fields which require a measurement such as lbs, ft etc into two columns, with the second column for metric measurements an optional extra? Zzrbiker 05:56, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
I find in some steam locomotive articles that the definition of "weight" as "The locomotive's total weight" is a source of confusion. In some cases this has been taken to mean the total weight of the locomotive and tender (already covered by the rubric "locotenderweight" - the combined locomotive and tender total weight). If I have understood right, "weight" stands for the weight of the locomotive (power unit) alone, presumably in working order. This is a far more useful criterion if we remember that a steam locomotive can be attached to several different tenders in the course of its career. For instance giving the loco+tender weight for French locomotives would be particularly meaningless as locomotives and tenders were maintained by separate services and had more or less independent careers.-- John of Paris 17:38, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
Strange nobody has taken up this issue. Not being very IT literate I hesitate to mess with the template, but suggest it is really urgent to change the mark-up to "weight loco" instead of "total weight" which should avoid confusion for the steam folk whilst not disturbing the others.-- John of Paris 08:58, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
Well thanks pals! - for nothing. I've held my breath, modified the template and it seems to work all right. Someone should check all the same.-- John of Paris ( talk) 11:05, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
There is a growing move towards the provision of 'ALT' text for images within WP ( WP:ALT). This is text that will be displayed if the image cannot be loaded or, more importantly, if a visually-impaired user is making use of a screen-reader: the ALT text will be read out loud, before the caption, to describe what the picture shows. (Incidentally, for validated HTML code, ALL images must have alt text defined.)
In
SR Merchant Navy class I have managed to fool the infobox into including the alt text (by using the {{
!}}
template, which sneaks-in a pipe symbol) by effectively adding it to the end of the filename. (See the alt text for each image using the 'toolbox' on the article's talk page.) A side-effect is that it shows as 'title' text, which would not normally be the case.
It would be much better if there were an 'alt = ' field provided to apply the text to the image correctly. My Parser function knowledge is rusty, so I'd rather someone else attempted this!
EdJogg ( talk) 02:21, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
The first line of the documentation on the main page reads:
The first line above reads:
Neither appears to be the whole story. I have just noticed that if you leave the image size blank, as in
| imagesize =
you don't get an image. If you remove the line, you get the default size.
What I'd really cheer for is a change to the template to produce the default if it's left blank. In general, I'm reluctant to remove blank parameter lines, as the parameter might be needed in the future. This is particularly true of images, which often come after the article. If that's hard, then I'll change the documentation. . . . . Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward ( talk • contribs) 00:06, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
So we've got one of those tiresome situations where someone is demanding "consensus" before changes are made. I suppose that means leaving a comment here, seeing nobody oppose it (because it's a trivial change to make the infobox look better) and reinstating it. I removed the "bordered" CSS class from the template, so as to better fit with almost all other automotive infobox templates on the encyclopedia. There is no particular reason for having borders here other than that this template has maintained its design since before infobox templates had a standard look and feel (and of course the possibility that people who use the undo button as a veto have discouraged editors from working on it). As such, they should be removed again unless there's some genuinely pressing reason to keep them. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 13:26, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
There are five parameters which place the transcluding article into
Category:Unusual parameters of Infobox locomotive template. Four of these are shown as deprecated near the bottom of the documentation; however |framesize=
is not so listed, but instead is shown in the blank templates and the examples. If |framesize=
is deprecated, the documentation should be fixed; if not, the category should be removed. --
Redrose64 (
talk)
20:58, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
Can there be a 'notes' section - in some cases there is needed some disambugation between near types using *†‡ symbols and no place to put the info eg in MaK_/_Vossloh_G1206 they are in the career section.
I've made a version here Template:Infobox_locomotive/sandbox - if ok can implement and add to documentation. (I know there is 'hatnote' but that's not at the bottom? what's that for?) Sf5xeplus ( talk) 10:52, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
There's now another discussion available at Template talk:Infobox train about default image sizes if anyone has an opinion. Sf5xeplus ( talk) 07:05, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
The notes say the default imagesize is 300, but it appears to be thumbnail sized which is about 200 (and a bit small)
Can it be changed to 300? I don't know how.
Would this work:?
{{#if:{{{image|}}}|{{!}} colspan=2 style="text-align: center" {{!}} [[File:{{{image}}}| {{#if:{{{imagesize|}}}|{{{imagesize}}}|300}} }}px|frameless}}|alt={{{alt|}}}]]}}
Sf5xeplus ( talk) 15:50, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
I've gotten by quite well so far with the Infobox locomotive template while writing articles on electrics and diesels, but now that I've started on steam I've discovered a need for a separate Infobox locomotive tender, alternatively to either expand Infobox locomotive or to create a subsection inside it to cover steam loco tenders, since the existing tender-specific parameters (eg tenderweight, tendertype, tendercap) are not sufficient. My own preference would be for a subsection with a coloured heading line above Railroad, rather than a separate Infobox locomotive tender. Suggested parameters are:
| type =
| image = (debatable, nice to have but not essential)
| alt = ditto
| imagesize = ditto
| caption = ditto
| hatnote = ditto
| designer =
| builder =
| ordernumber =
| serialnumber =
| builddate =
| totalproduction =
| rebuilder =
| rebuilddate =
| bogies =
| wheeldiameter =
| wheelbase =
| length =
| width =
| height =
| axleload =
| emptyweight =
| workorderweight =
| coalcap =
| fueloilcap =
| watercap =
| railroad = ditto
| notes = eg Mechanical stoker
There may be more...
Examples of what I've done so far by adding a second truncated Infobox locomotive template are
South African Class 25NC 4-8-4 and
South African Class 26 4-8-4.
André Kritzinger 22:25, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
Is there a single parameter which can be relied upon, to determine whether the subject of the infobox is a locomotive type or an individual locomotive? Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 18:16, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
How about just putting it in the "Name" parameter? eg
| name = South Africa's Red Devil or
| name = Chessie System's B&O GM50?
André Kritzinger 22:25, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
|roadnumber=1234
--
Redrose64 (
talk)
19:14, 6 November 2010 (UTC)Here's an arbitrary split:
Infobox locomotive | name = | powertype = | image = | alt = | imagesize = 300 | caption = | hatnote = | designer = | builder = | ordernumber = | serialnumber = | buildmodel = | builddate = | totalproduction = | rebuilder = | rebuilddate = | numberrebuilt = | whytetype = | aarwheels = | uicclass = | gauge = | trucks = | bogies = | leadingdiameter = | driverdiameter = | wheeldiameter = | trailingdiameter = | minimumcurve = | wheelbase = | length = | width = | height = | framesize = | axleload = | weightondrivers = | locoweight = | fueltype = | fuelcap = | lubecap = | coolantcap = | watercap = | sandcap = | consumption = | watercons = | electricsystem = | collectionmethod = | tractionmotors = | transmission = | multipleworking = | topspeed = | poweroutput = | tractiveeffort = | factorofadhesion = | trainheating = | locobrakes = | locobrakeforce = | trainbrakes = | safety = | railroad = | railroadclass = | powerclass = | numinclass = | roadnumber = | officialname = | nicknames = | axleloadclass = | locale = | deliverydate = | firstrundate = | lastrundate = | retiredate = | withdrawndate = | preservedunits = | restoredate = | scrapdate = | currentowner = | disposition = | notes =
(just under the 80 fields limit I think)
Steam and diesel (ie combustion) type
Steam specific
| boiler = | boilerpressure = | feedwaterheater = | firearea = | tubearea = | fluearea = | tubesandflues = | fireboxarea = | totalsurface = | superheatertype = | superheaterarea = | frontcylindersize= | rearcylindersize = | hpcylindersize = | lpcylindersize = | valvegear = | valvetype = | valvetravel = | valvelap = | valvelead = | tenderweight = | locotenderweight = | tendertype = | tendercap =
(used for both ??) | cylindercount = | cylindersize =
Diesel specific
| primemover = | rpmrange = | enginetype = | aspiration = | displacement = | alternator = | generator =
All the steam and diesel bits could be combined into a single child ("infobox:rail vehicle combustion" ?), or another way, depending on if there is a bigger plan. If more need to be removed from the main then I'd suggest splitting off all the ones that relate to builders, build_model_numbers, dates and work histories.. Is this workable, or was something more systematic wanted? 83.100.200.4 ( talk) 02:35, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
alternative split if convert doesn't work
|
---|
Infobox locomotive' + name = + powertype = + image = + alt = + imagesize = 300 + caption = + hatnote = + gauge = + trucks = + bogies = + leadingdiameter = + driverdiameter = + wheeldiameter = + trailingdiameter = + minimumcurve = + wheelbase = + length = + width = + height = + framesize = + axleload = + weightondrivers = + locoweight = + fueltype = + fuelcap = + lubecap = + coolantcap = + watercap = + sandcap = + consumption = + watercons = + electricsystem = + collectionmethod = + tractionmotors = + transmission = + multipleworking = + topspeed = + poweroutput = + tractiveeffort = + factorofadhesion = + trainheating = + locobrakes = + locobrakeforce = + trainbrakes = + boiler = + boilerpressure = + feedwaterheater = + firearea = + tubearea = + fluearea = + tubesandflues = + fireboxarea = + totalsurface = + superheatertype = + superheaterarea = + frontcylindersize= + rearcylindersize = + hpcylindersize = + lpcylindersize = + valvegear = + valvetype = + valvetravel = + valvelap = + valvelead = + tenderweight = + locotenderweight = + tendertype = + tendercap = + cylindercount = + cylindersize = + rpmrange = + displacement = + alternator = + generator =
|
{{
!}}
which displays as |. --
Redrose64 (
talk)
15:55, 3 January 2011 (UTC)Here is the current state of affairs in terms of each field, and how often each one is being used. Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 23:21, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
Count | Field | Count | Field | Count | Field | Count | Field |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
1 | watercons | 2 | framesize | 2 | valvetravel | 2 | service |
4 | frontcylindersize | 4 | serviceclass | 4 | rearcylindersize | 8 | consumption |
11 | trailingsize | 13 | alt | 16 | notes | 18 | leadingsize |
23 | feedwaterheater | 24 | fluearea | 27 | trucks | 28 | hatnote |
29 | rebuilder | 31 | coolantcap | 32 | lubecap | 32 | numberrebuilt |
33 | lpcylindersize | 33 | hpcylindersize | 33 | sandcap | 36 | tendertype |
43 | rebuilddate | 44 | tubesandflues | 44 | restoredate | 45 | alternator |
46 | ordernumber | 46 | tendercap | 63 | scrapdate | 70 | superheatertype |
70 | safety | 77 | locobrakeforce | 78 | rpmrange | 79 | valvetype |
80 | boiler | 82 | lastrundate | 83 | generator | 85 | displacement |
86 | minimumcurve | 101 | tubearea | 104 | preservedunits | 107 | factorofadhesion |
112 | multipleworking | 123 | trainheating | 125 | bogies | 134 | officialname |
141 | locotenderweight | 145 | superheaterarea | 157 | trailingdiameter | 158 | fireboxarea |
164 | imagesize | 164 | aspiration | 167 | driversize | 171 | totalsurface |
172 | currentowner | 172 | axleloadclass | 173 | tenderweight | 185 | deliverydate |
192 | nicknames | 193 | withdrawndate | 237 | collectionmethod | 242 | powerclass |
243 | valvegear | 259 | electricsystem | 264 | leadingdiameter | 274 | locobrakes |
302 | enginetype | 318 | firstrundate | 319 | firearea | 323 | axleload |
350 | weightondrivers | 359 | watercap | 368 | transmission | 370 | tractionmotors |
391 | trainbrakes | 400 | wheeldiameter | 406 | locale | 416 | retiredate |
458 | serialnumber | 462 | buildmodel | 469 | width | 469 | wheelbase |
476 | aarwheels | 502 | weight | 511 | primemover | 515 | height |
517 | numinclass | 531 | designer | 550 | fuelcap | 695 | fueltype |
704 | driverdiameter | 728 | boilerpressure | 735 | railroadclass | 822 | disposition |
849 | topspeed | 885 | cylindersize | 945 | roadnumber | 965 | locoweight |
1014 | cylindercount | 1034 | poweroutput | 1057 | whytetype | 1103 | uicclass |
1167 | length | 1230 | tractiveeffort | 1289 | totalproduction | 1309 | caption |
1310 | railroad | 1349 | image | 1819 | gauge | 1829 | builddate |
1899 | builder | 2051 | powertype | 2085 | name |
|hpcylindersize=
, or it will be the low pressure cyl (as with the
LNWR Class A), in which case use |lpcylindersize=
. As for different pressures, the h.p. cyls will be fed at boiler pressure (or nearly so, there is always a loss between regulator and steam chest), whereas the pressure of the l.p. cyls is very much dependent upon the expansion ratio of the h.p. cyls and so is not normally quoted, being of theoretical, not practical value. --
Redrose64 (
talk)
16:29, 3 January 2011 (UTC)I believe this was discussed here somewhere else a long time ago - I was wondering if anyone was going to convert this infobox to the 'standard format' type with no coloured sections, and less horizontal field separating lines? (I could try this myself but would fail or make a mess probably). Sf5xeplus ( talk) 18:35, 1 January 2011 (UTC)
I note that some articles on Diesel or electric multiple units are using {{
Infobox locomotive}}
, and not {{
Infobox train}}
. I've recently fixed up
Bombadier Talent; what's the best way of detecting these misuses? --
Redrose64 (
talk)
17:10, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
{{
Infobox Station}}
has a parameter |nrhp=
which allows a {{
infobox nrhp}}
to be nested - see, for example,
Slidell (Amtrak station). If {{
infobox locomotive}}
had similar, it would be of assistance on articles like
Virginia and Truckee Railroad No. 27, since some steam locos in the USA are registered with NRHP. (this follows on from thread started yesterday at
Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Trains/Locomotives task force#Virginia and Truckee Railroad No. 27). --
Redrose64 (
talk)
10:59, 10 January 2011 (UTC)Most of these are simple typos in the field names (firstrundatre -> firstrundate), but some may require more thought. I have already cleaned up about a hundred or so, but there are more to do. Feel free to help out if you have time. It would be great to remove them as they are fixed, but it's not critical, since I can just regenerate the list (it takes about 20 minutes). Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 22:35, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
Field | Article(s) |
---|---|
service | British Rail Class 67, EMD GP38-2, HŽ series 2062, RENFE Class 354, SNCB Class 28 (Bombardier), SNCF Class CC 72100, ČSD Class ES 499.1 |
serviceclass | British Rail Class 67, EMD GP38-2, EMD SD40, EMD SDP45, HŽ series 2062, RENFE Class 352, RENFE Class 354, SNCB Class 28 (Bombardier) |
Something that hasn't yet been mentioned is unnamed (positional) parameters - the template doesn't recognise any of these, but they may have been introduced by accident. For example, the |leadingsize|
lacking a trailing equal sign which I fixed with
this edit. --
Redrose64 (
talk)
18:04, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
name=value|
}}
Regarding
these recent changes; I see no talk page discussion for this. Adding the |powersupply=
parameter is one thing; changing how five others display is another, and
WP:CONSENSUS should have been obtained.
I for one do not approve of the change: whilst "mass" may be the correct scientific term, most books and magazines that I encounter use the word "weight" and I would prefer that we continue to use that term. -- Redrose64 ( talk) 19:34, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
André Kritzinger 12:10, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
Instead of the field name "Frame size", how about just calling it "Frame"?
The reason is that on all 73 South African steam locomotives I've written articles on to date, I could not find information on the frame size of any of them. On all of them, however, there is a distinction on whether the locomotive had a bar frame or plate frame, and since there's no field for that, I've been using the "Frame size" field for that feature.
André Kritzinger (
talk)
20:27, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
I would like to suggest an additional "Boiler" field to use for the height of the boiler centre line above the railhead. In the steam era it was a long standing principle that this centre line height should not exceed twice the track gauge, or 7 feet on Cape gauge locomotives. Beatty of the CGR, for example, only resorted to exceeding this limit in 1906 in order to enable a deeper firebox. I could add that information in the existing boiler field, but as it is I already use that field to show both size dimensions - the boiler diameter AND the distance between tube plates or interior length. The descriptions could then be:
Is this do-able? André Kritzinger ( talk) 00:18, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
Is it possible to specify the width of the left (headings) column?
As it is now, the width is automatically adjusted, occasionally with undesired results.
André Kritzinger (
talk)
23:15, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
style="max-width: 33%"
work for columns? Thanks!
Plastikspork
―Œ(talk)
23:20, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
Hi folks. Could we please consider changing the fieldname "locale" to the more internationally recognised and more accurate "location", "locality" or "country". I believe "locale" is very much American vernacular for "locality", but it is rare in Europe and elsewhere. Also, according to the international Oxford Dictionary of English, "locale" is strictly "a place where something happens" or "has particular events associated with it" i.e. it's more like a "venue", whereas the other two terms are just used for the place, position or site of something. Thanks. -- Bermicourt ( talk) 08:57, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
Is "transmission" the best place to put details regarding a locomotive's propulsion system? Especially with electric and more modern locomotives how the power is transmitted to the wheels can be a fairly complex affair. I'm perfectly happy with dumping these details into the transmission heading, but perhaps a new field might be more prudent. Sturmovik ( talk) 18:42, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
|tractionmotors=
is used for electric and Diesel-electric locos; whilst Diesel-electric locos may also use either |alternator=
or |generator=
. --
Redrose64 (
talk)
19:51, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
Could someone add truck and/or bogie centers (truck to truck) to the template as an optional parameter? This would of course apply to diesel locomotives, diesel electric locomotives and electric locomotives only. Peter Horn User talk 14:50, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
Yes Plastikspork, acceleration and deceleration, that's exactly what I wanted. Peter Horn User talk 04:43, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
Can some one please add the field (parameter) "|coupling =" and in such manner that it links to railway coupling? This field is available in template:Infobox train. Peter Horn User talk 22:15, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
{{
Infobox German railway vehicle}}
has additional fields for
rack railway locomotives.
Peter Horn
User talk
23:34, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
Would some editors like look at this infobox - it would seem sensible to convert this to the english language infoboxes. Sf5xeplus ( talk) 17:39, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
Sample 1 | |||||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Sample 2 | |||||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Sample 3 | |||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Sample 4 | |||||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Many tecnologically challenged contributors/users/editors come up with sample No.1 & 3 for electric and diesel-electric locomotives respectively. Sample No.2 & 4 shows what it should be. Peter Horn User talk 14:49, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
The template was changed by User:Lfdder today and the separating lines between sections were removed in the process. It looks nice and clean, but I find it hard on the eyes, especially when the titles in the left column are not one-liners and even worse when the info in both columns are multiple-liners. I'm creating an article right now and I find it strainful on the eyes, so I can only imagine how much worse will it be for the reader! André Kritzinger ( talk) 21:59, 21 September 2013 (UTC)
For steam locomotives there should be the parameter |labelXX = [[Cylinder (locomotive)|Cylinders]] Peter Horn User talk 04:44, 6 May 2014 (UTC)
Please see Llynvi and Ogmore Railway. The template shows header "Career", even when it is empty. It would be better if it is hidden. - DePiep ( talk) 20:54, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
Template:Infobox German railway vehicle has Pivot pitch Drehzapfenabstand, Distance between bogie pivots or pins (or center plates). This is a nice, unambiguous, distinction from wheel base. Peter Horn User talk 14:26, 5 November 2014 (UTC) Peter Horn User talk 14:49, 5 November 2014 (UTC) Peter Horn User talk 14:57, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
The TFD nomination that is posted at the top of the template right now looks likely to result in a merge. I've started a quick experiment to map the parameters from the German template to this one at User:Slambo/DE infobox. I'd be interested to hear other editors' thoughts on the matter. Thanks. Slambo (Speak) 16:37, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
|Fußbodenhöhe=
for floor height or |Türen=
for doors) that do not apply to locomotives. If those parameters are used, it will show {{
Infobox train}} instead. Please take a moment to review my test template and provide feedback as needed. Thanks!
Slambo
(Speak)
21:48, 30 December 2014 (UTC)IE 201 Class, a dug in the short ton value {{convert|108.862|t} {{convert|108.862|t} Peter Horn User talk 01:34, 6 June 2015 (UTC)
{{
Infobox locomotive}}
- it's the parameters supplied to {{
convert}}
. But if you were to post your question at
Template talk:Convert, they would direct you to
Template:Convert#Default rounding. --
Redrose64 (
talk)
19:16, 6 June 2015 (UTC)
{{convert|120|ST|MT LT|order=flip|sigfig=4}}
would produce "108.9 metric tons; 107.1 long tons (120 short tons)" - which seems a bit more sensible. Unfortunately, in the
IE 201 Class article, the weight is not referenced so it is impossible to tell where the source for the weight is or what the original units were...
Robevans123 (
talk)
22:47, 6 June 2015 (UTC)