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Template:Infobox Australian place/sandbox turned into a wrapper [1].
Compare at Template:Infobox Australian place/testcases . TerraCyprus ( talk) 14:38, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
Major issue:
Module:Australian place map sometimes returns maps below the state level, this is not implemented in |pushpin_map=
yet. I don't understand the code in the module and have no experience with lua. @
Frietjes: you created that module, could you make it work that |pushpin_map=
gets any sub-state-level map and while the switching between different maps is kept?
TerraCyprus (
talk) 14:23, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
<ol>
markup. also, FYI, per
this thread no pushpin map when there is an LGA map.
Frietjes (
talk) 14:56, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
|pushpin_map=
the # is the way to enable map switching.
TerraCyprus (
talk) 15:03, 15 September 2020 (UTC)Frietjes pointed to Template_talk:Infobox_Australian_place/Archive_8#Coordinates_in_infoboxes, saying "no pushpin map when there is an LGA map". The LGA map is a pushpin map too, isn't it? TerraCyprus ( talk) 15:02, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
@ McVahl: regarding your request for the placement of the image, in the wrapper version it is a bit more to the top now. But I found no way to move it further up, should be addressed at Template_talk:Infobox settlement. One could use the shield/coatofarms image parameters, but a logo isn't any of these. TerraCyprus ( talk) 15:31, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
The live version is fine.why? And does that preclude the creation of something finer? TerraCyprus ( talk) 16:21, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
The live version does everything that it needs to do, and more, is easy to use, is aesthetically appealing and not bloatedthat is equally true for the wrapper version. With the benefit on top, to have the image issue mentioned by McVahl addressed by placing the image a bit higher. TerraCyprus ( talk) 19:12, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
|logo=
parameter. Would rather consider something “low important” if there are only less than 20 articles. –
McVahl (
talk) 20:19, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
that is equally true for the wrapper version.No, just ... No! The wrapper version handles some data differently to the way that this infobox does. Infobox settlement is not easy to use, which is why you need to create a wrapper in the first place. It is not aesthetically appealing. There is just something wrong with the font and spacing in IS. It's like the 87-year-old whose tramp stamp doesn't look the same as it did when she was a 19-year-old hottie many years ago. By comparison look at any one of a number of other infoboxes: {{ Infobox television}}, {{ Infobox person}}, {{ Infobox film}}, {{ Infobox building}}, {{ Infobox monument}}, {{ Infobox protected area}}, {{ Infobox school}}, {{ Infobox university}} etc. They all look a lot better than IS, especially without the ridiculous horizontal lines. Note that this infobox generally mirrors the appearance of those. IS actually hurts my eyes. The others don't. As for bloating, the wrapper is based on IS. The wrapper is just under 24.6kB, IS is 59.8kB. This entire infobox is just under 22kB, which is even smaller than just the wrapper. So yes, the wrapper/IS is bloated.
With the benefit on top, to have the image issue mentioned by McVahl addressed by placing the image a bit higher.There is no rule that states all images have to be at the top of an infobox. {{ Infobox university}} (used on more than 22,500 pages) has the logo at the bottom. See, for example, University of Oxford.
Little importance?- I actually said
it's of little importance, or at least a lot lower importance than the other data in the infobox.. You missed the crucial second part. Infoboxes should prioritise information. Location, population, area etc are important information. The logo is less important and many LGAs regularly change theirs. That's why it's lower down than the more important information. -- AussieLegend ( ✉) 16:56, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
Just a little thing, but I don't think we generally include flags in infoboxes. Looks great otherwise! ItsPugle (please ping on reply) 06:35, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
@ Jonesey95, ItsPugle, AussieLegend, Techie3, and Frietjes: what would you prefer? country= {{AUS}} or [[Australia]]? TerraCyprus ( talk) 17:14, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
@
Betterkeks: re your request above, now with the wrapper it could be *very* easily be coded so that a value of |module=
in the Australian place template is passed to to |module=
in {{
Infobox settlement}}. But first it would be needed to use the new wrapper code.
TerraCyprus (
talk) 15:35, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
@ ItsPugle, Jonesey95, AussieLegend, and Michael Bednarek: re your discussion about the presentation of the population density. The wrapper in the sandbox implements the standard behavior of {{ Infobox settlement}}, that is a bullet point before "Density", but inside a section for population, not standalone. TerraCyprus ( talk) 15:40, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
The image at the top of the sandbox infobox is quite small. I experimented just a little bit to see if I could make it larger, but I was unsuccessful. – Jonesey95 ( talk) 16:04, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
{{#invoke:InfoboxImage|...|upright=yes}}
ItsPugle (please
ping on reply) 08:10, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
|image_upright=0.81
, which looks like it isn't being passed to infobox settlement correctly in the sandbox (or maybe it is being overridden by the default image size?). Thanks for pointing out that problem, which someone will need to fix. –
Jonesey95 (
talk) 14:06, 17 September 2020 (UTC)@ Jonesey95 and ItsPugle: Template:Infobox_settlement#Images,_nickname,_motto mapsize, imagesize: "If used, px must be specified;", pushpin_mapsize: "The default value is 250."
I did set imagesize = 300px to make the infobox wider and did set the values for the others to 300 too, since a width of 300 is there anyway and to have it look more harmonious by having all images with the same width. Feel free to revert [5] and return to per article settings, which may result in different infobox sizes even for same type of entity. TerraCyprus ( talk) 15:30, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
px
(e.g. |thumb|300px
), which forces a fixed image width measured in pixels, disregarding the user's image size preference setting." this infobox doesn't force image sizes, it does as WP:IMGSIZE says and uses "image_upright". "px" was removed a long time ago. The default image width for Australian articles is |image_upright=1.23
. Some infoboxes have 2 images, a locator map and a suburb map and can result in the infobox taking up far more real estate than it should, especially on the many barely-a-stub articles that we have. This also ensures that all the images and maps default to a similar size. --
AussieLegend (
✉) 17:21, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
px
is used, the resulting image should usually be no more than 500 pixels tall and no more than 400 pixels wide, for comfortable display on the smallest devices "in common use" (though this may still cause viewing difficulties on some unusual displays). To convert a px
value to scaling_factor
, divide it by 220 and round the result as desired.upright=1.35
(equivalent to 300px at the default preference selection of "220px").What is this discussion aiming to achieve? -- AussieLegend ( ✉) 15:52, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
There could be more consensus for a merge if a demonstration of the merged template were created first, which is being done here. I think we can agree that TerraCyprus is working on this in a productive manner in the sandbox first, and from the looks of it achieving great results. They're also working on it publicly, in a non-time-limited manner here. I think we should all be supporting these efforts and working with the editor, providing feedback on the matters on which they bring to our attention, to achieve a great result. It would also alleviate your concerns at the TfD, so I'd have thought you'd also be championing these efforts. ProcrastinatingReader ( talk) 13:39, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
I think this has been done and the wrapper could go live.There has been a lot of discussion but nothing asking where all the issues are. -- AussieLegend ( ✉) 17:53, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
we should focus on making the new version look as similar as possible to the old version. after that, we can discuss styling improvements- I think this has been done and the wrapper could go live. TerraCyprus ( talk) 16:16, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
but nothing asking where all the issues are??
I have created
Template:Infobox_Australian_place/testcases#Types_of_places -- it has examples of each |type=
of this infobox. Aside from my suggestions above, the only blocker I see is that IS needs to have proper mapframe support. Ideally also proper rainfall/weather support, but embedding is not a blocker. Other than that, I think this looks fine, per Frietjes's comments. I think it contains awful non-infobox material (e.g. the "See also" in an infobox?!), but I guess if it wasn't added some would say it's "missing functionality".
Protected areas should, as I mentioned in the TfD, move to {{ Infobox protected area}}. The wrapper handles them fine, but it's not the right way of doing it. We need to move away from the idea that Australia can just create its own versions of templates of each wiki-wide place template, and instead see the areas as the type of area that they are, rather than the location they are in. The status quo is filled with egregious MOS:INFOBOXES violations, likely the greatest violation to several infobox principles of any highly transcluded template. ProcrastinatingReader ( talk) 18:06, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
Aside from my suggestions above, the only blocker I see is that IS needs to have proper mapframe support.- That's not the only issue. a lot is to do with the way that data is presented.
it contains awful non-infobox material (e.g. the "See also" in an infobox?!)- That is protected area related. This is not the only infobox that uses this. I checked when I had to rewrite the Australian protected area infobox.
Protected areas should, as I mentioned in the TfD, move to {{ Infobox protected area}}.- I direct you back to the merge discussion where I explained in detail why protected area were eventually incorporated into this infobox.
I think the wrapper addresses all functionality- It doesn't. There are reasons why this infobox does what it does and the wrapper doesn't do it properly.
We need to move away from the idea that Australia can just create its own versions of templates of each wiki-wide place template,- This sort of arrogance is why there is animosity when somebody suggests a merge or deletion without properly preparing yourself. You've been on Wikipedia for 5 minutes and you're dictating what should or shouldn't be done when you clearly have not bothered to research what has been done and why it was done. I realise that today's "coders" don't see the need to ask the end users what they want and what they need before throwing something together, but I've been programming for 45 years and I have always found it best to consult the end users, especially to ask questions like "why do you need it done that way?" and then try to comply with the answer, rather than force some piece of crap on them that only sort of did what they wanted. There have been valid reasons for everything that has been done to this infobox. -- AussieLegend ( ✉) 17:17, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
There has been a lot of discussion but nothing asking where all the issues are.and simultaneously badgering me whilst I speak to other editors. All you have to do, to add merit to your claims, and be helpful at the same time, is send a link to the articles where it's broken. Very simple stuff.Here you refer editors to:
direct you back to the merge discussion. In the merge discussion you vaguely refer editors to read the archives. The same pattern goes on in all Australian place merge discussions going back a decade ( eg). So where's the actual root discussion? Well, nobody knows.In past merge discussions you've vigorously defended the right for Australian places to have their own infoboxes, with one vague reason or another. It doesn't take long to catch up when there's decades of archives sitting around. Why would any end user understand what is going on with the differences of Australian places? Why should they be fundamentally different to every single other city? Why is this understandable to readers, who are not especially familiar with the Australian WikiProject or the Template talk:Infobox Australian place archives, when reading Melbourne? The simple answer is: they shouldn't, and they aren't. And the wiki would be much better off with TerraCyprus's work.Nobody denies that you are effective (I mean that in a nice way). But I guess that's why it's so worrying when an editor creates a working sandbox version; how does one vigorously, in a wishy-washy manner, say that a merge is technically infeasible when it's already been done?! I have faith in you -- you will figure it out :) ProcrastinatingReader ( talk) 10:52, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
Correct, it should look as close as possible to the rest of the live settlement articles- No, and that's a silly thing to say. Any IS based wrapper is going to look like IS. This one should look as much like Infobox Australian place and it certainly comes nowhere near that. As I've said, the presentation of the data is as it is for good reasons. Some of the presentation by the wrapper just looks ridiculous from an Australian point of view.
Absolutely no reason to try retain the rainbow colour scheme, or any of those 'features', and those differences are desirable.- In your opinion only.
wrapper seems fine from testcases.- Clearly it is not and if you would only compare what the wrapper presents to what this infobox presents, it should be blatantly obvious. If you can't see that, then maybe you shouldn't be a templateeditor. Instead of asking "what are the problems?" you should be asking "why does this infobox do this in that way?"
but even you cannot make a specific objection to any part of it- I can make lots of specific objections, but I shouldn't have to and I'm not required to. You should be able to see the problems for yourself if you could objectively compare the testcases. -- AussieLegend ( ✉) 14:15, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
A comment on the sandbox and the testcases page: A quick perusal of the testcases page showed that parameters used in Module:Australian place map, and listed in the unknown parameter check as hints to the sandbox developer, were not yet supported in the sandbox. I have added two of them, but the sandbox and the testcases page need development in order to retain support for all of those parameters. – Jonesey95 ( talk) 21:34, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
This sort of change by stealth is not how Wikipedia works.- Indeed that is correct but ProcrastinatingReader doesn't seem to understand that. As I have said, it's almost heading into WP:FAIT territory. A wrapper was discussed in the recent merge discussion and there was no consensus for one. One editor even withdrew his support for a wrapper. Any changes have to be addressed in another discussion at WP:TFD. That this page has 65 watchers is pretty irrelevant. Some of those watchers may be inactive, others are not Australian, so any changes have to be considered in the correct venue and that shouldn't happen until the wrapper is fixed substantially. -- AussieLegend ( ✉) 14:15, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
Feel free to point out any PAG... The outcome to merge was no consensus not keep, literally nothing is inconsistent with it. We're not proposing deletion/merge, someone is proposing a template change, same as adding a tracking category, changing or adding a field, or something else. I'm not personally going to implement anything, I just voiced my support on the talk page. As have others voiced their openness and procedural support, who are respected long-time template editors.And to jog your memory a little bit {{ Infobox protected area of Australia}} was discussed twice at TfD [7] [8]. Yet you unilaterally replaced it to avoid a proper merge to the proposed target. Are you saying that everyone else must go to a specific venue, not supported by PAGs, but you can do whatever you want? Whilst you're explaining the PAG support of your view of consensus, you may want to also reconcile this with WP:OWNERSHIP. :) ProcrastinatingReader ( talk) 15:53, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
We're not proposing deletion/merge, someone is proposing a template change, same as adding a tracking category, changing or adding a field, or something else.- Not at all the same. A wrapper was proposed at the discussion and rejected with, as I've pointed out, one editor even removing support for a wrapper.
to jog your memory a little bit {{ Infobox protected area of Australia}} was discussed twice at TfD [9] [10].- There's no need to jog my memory as I raised this at the recent merge discussion for this template. [11] It appears that you are the one needing a memory jog so let's ignore the fantasy and discuss what actually happened. The template was discussed in 2011 with the result being "no consensus". It was again discussed in 2013, again with an outcome of no consensus. I then opened a discussion at Template talk:Infobox protected area, suggesting that changes proposed in 2011 be implemented in {{ Infobox protected area}} and it then replace Template:Infobox protected area of Australia. [12] Nearly 7 years later I still haven't had a response. I then set about rewriting Infobox protected area of Australia to provide a functional infobox without all the hacks that were needed with the previous version and that was used for a year. It was at that time that I realised a lot of functionality was common with this one and so it was merged into this one. I'm sure you'll agree that when there are several templates with almost the same functionality available in each one, it's better to consolidate them.
Yet you unilaterally replaced it to avoid a proper merge to the proposed target.- As demonstrated, this allegation is baseless fantasy, offensive, and bordering on a personal attack. -- AussieLegend ( ✉) 16:31, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
I have faith in you -- you will figure it out :). Good luck! ProcrastinatingReader ( talk) 23:33, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
The gaslighting here is incredible.- That in itself is almost a personal attack. Your accusation was
you unilaterally replaced it to avoid a proper merge to the proposed target.which is not true at all, as demonstrated in my last post.
just laying out the series of events- Except that you didn't lay out what actually happened. Instead you presented a complete misinterpretation of what actually happened, presenting it as fact. -- AussieLegend ( ✉) 12:39, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
Strong oppose - I strongly oppose these changes without obtaining consensus outside the users who inhabit this talk page.- whom do you refer to by "the users who inhabit this talk page"? One of the standard procedures in WP is to discuss on talk pages, gain consensus there, and implement changes after said consensus has been reached. TerraCyprus ( talk) 23:29, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
The converted farenhite temps are displayed is a small font size which goes against MOS:SMALL. Please change to normal font. MB 23:51, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
http://www.travelmate.com.au/MapMaker/MapMaker.asp This is recommended for use for distance calculation between two locations. However this has been dead for some years. It is used in many places [13] many of which are talk pages where it is shown as being archived back in 2016. However TravelMate does not work in archived format so for all intents and purposes it is a dead link. I have flagged it as a dead link in a few locations I have encountered it in the last few days. It should at least be removed from documentation as recommended for use as a distance calculator. Fleet Lists ( talk) 22:12, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
Hi, I just wanted to ask, why do we need special infobox for places in Australia. I don't see any other countries getting their own infoboxes for cities, rather simply using template:Infobox settlement. I don't get why there's a need for a special infobox for cities in Australia if they could be represented by settlement infobox.
Also if we really need it, I wanted to propose unifying the design of the infobox with design of template:Infobox settlement, to make overall design on Wikipedia more unitary. Specially, that from that I see, Australian place template is the lonely example in case of infoboxes not falling into the same colour scheme and design form as other infoboxes. I propose making them look the same, while keeping special information that Australian template might contain and adding missing information from settlement infobox (like usage of flags, logos and coat of arms, etc.). TheEditMate ( talk) 17:17, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
At present, this template does not appear to track any fields from Wikidata. I wonder if it is time to start a conversation about the population data from the 2021 census. The 2016 census appears to have reported population using the same Bounded Locality (LOCB) boundaries as are used to delimit localities in enwiki, defined by state governments and mapped in OpenStreetMap. It seems likely that the 2021 and onwards census will use these same boundaries, making population figures more comparable in future than they have been in the past.
There are still town/locality articles using this infobox with either no population number, or one much older than the 2016 census, yet have a link to a wikidata item that has the 2016 population. Presumably when it becomes available, the 2021 population dataset will also be uploaded to Wikidata and matched to all of those items. Could we consider the infoboxes automatically picking up the 2021 population from Wikidata once it is available and automatically including it for any place types that have corresponding population figures, rather than requiring editors to manually add it (and the reference) as we have done fro 2016 population?
What do other editors think? -- Scott Davis Talk 13:07, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
State Suburbs (SSCs): An ABS approximation of gazetted localities constructed from the allocation of one or more whole Mesh Blocks.Mesh Blocks are designed taking boundaries into account. LGAs have similar definition language to State Suburbs. Perhaps @ 99of9 has insight into whether this is expected to be stable going forward that 2016 population could be directly imported to Wikipedia infoboxes for LGAs, suburbs and towns, then switched to or augmented with 2021 data when available? -- Scott Davis Talk 22:15, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
@
Techie3,
Jonesey95,
TerraCyprus,
Frietjes,
AussieLegend,
Galobtter,
WOSlinker,
Fayenatic london,
Plastikspork,
Pppery, and
ScottDavis: In
Template:Infobox Australian place/testcases, the only section that uses |local_map_id=
is §NSW - town - Raymond Terrace, which sets the parameter to Q595259. Using
Special:ExpandTemplates on this section and the help of
User:PerfektesChaos/js/lintHint, I find that this parameter and value cause five lint errors, viz:
</table>
<table>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
Setting the parameter to a value of Bogusmapid removes the lint errors. I don't know what is going on and what is being tested here. If there is something intentionally wrong with Q595259, I recommend inserting comment there saying something like, "causes lint errors; do not fix". I don't think this is the case, because the lint errors seem to be associated only with {{
Infobox Australian place/sandbox}}
. If Q595259 is supposed to work properly, and the lint errors are associated only with the sandbox version, then no comment here, but the sandbox should be fixed to make the 5 lint errors go away, whether or not the sandbox displays as intended. Either that, or delete the sandbox altogether, so that
Template:Infobox Australian place/testcases won't be the only template listed at
Lint errors: Table tag that should be deleted in the template namespace. —
Anomalocaris (
talk) 22:01, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
{{Infobox|child=yes|...}}
with |module=
from {{
Infobox settlement}}. If you check the code for {{
Infobox settlement}} you will see that the "module" is wrapped inside of a table, but {{Infobox|child=yes|...}}
doesn't generate an entire table, only the table rows. To see this, try {{Infobox|child=yes|data2={{Infobox mapframe|zoom=|id=Q595259}}}}
in
Special:ExpandTemplates and for a complete example, you can try {{Infobox settlement|module={{Infobox|child=yes|data2={{Infobox mapframe|zoom=|id=Q595259}}}}}}
. Note that there is special code in
Module:Infobox to fix these child boxes, it only works if they are passed directly, and not wrapped inside of another table. For now, I will switch the sandbox to use |subbox=yes
instead of |child=yes
since the former generates a well-formed table. Thanks!
Plastikspork
―Œ(talk) 22:40, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
Many Australian places now have a local Aboriginal name assigned to them, and I think it would be helpful to be able to include these in the infobox. There may be other instances where an alternative name may be appropriate too. Laterthanyouthink ( talk) 06:38, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
When I inserted |image_upright = 0.8
in the infobox coding at
Serviceton, the size of the infobox image remained unchanged. Same with |upright = 0.9
. I then inserted |image_size =200px
, which worked, but resulted in the appearance of "Preview warning: Page using Template:Infobox Australian place with unknown parameter "image_size"".
For information, and hopefully fixing. Cheers, SCHolar44 ( talk) 11:55, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
|image_upright=0.8
it's now at 180px by 180px. --
Michael Bednarek (
talk) 14:30, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
|logo=
field which, by default, also sets a default of |logo_upright=0.8
. This field is normally only for LGAs but Serviceton is a special case. As a special note, it's also discussed in an interesting YouTube video titled
The Border Mistake That Created a Disputed Territory. --
AussieLegend (
✉) 15:59, 26 August 2021 (UTC)This
edit request to
Template:Infobox Australian place has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Change "label27 = Federal Division(s)" to "label27 = Federal division(s)" because Wikipedia headings are supposed to be written in sentence-case. Woko Sapien ( talk) 20:17, 4 October 2021 (UTC)
See discussion at Wikipedia:Australian_Wikipedians'_notice_board#Places_Infobox_and_Indigenous_Nations/Language_Groups. Mitch Ames ( talk) 09:33, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
Hallo, I was stub-sorting Kamarooka, Victoria , and adding some geog context to its lead, I realised that the infobox didn't tell the reader what country it's in. Yes, it says "Victoria", but that requires the international reader to recognise the name of the state as being part of Australia. I checked a place in England and one in the USA, and both of these give the country in the infobox. I suggest that the reader would be better served if this infobox displayed "Country: Australia". Pam D 09:04, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T301588 recently allowed editors to add the parameter "class=notpageimage" to an image to prevent it from being used as the page preview image. In Perth, for example, the map generated by this template has taken precedence over the nice skyline image as the page preview image, and I am unable to add the parameter to the map on the article itself. For this reason, I am requesting that the paramenter "class=notpageimage" be added automatically to the maps generated by this template. Alternatively, if one still wants to allow maps as the page preview, (e.g. for small places with no other images), a parameter should added to the template that adds the notpageimage parameter to the map, so that this can be done by choice on articles where that is deemed necessary. Toadspike ( talk) 23:39, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
I don't want to edit the page myself given the notice at the top, but this is a request for a traditional custodians/aboriginal country/ aboriginal language group or another preffered title be added as an optional section to Australian place infoboxes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Notcharizard ( talk • contribs) 05:33, 3 April 2022 (UTC) -- ☽☆ NotCharizard ( talk) 05:35, 3 April 2022 (UTC)
The template includes parameters near-n
etc for "nearest neighbour". It appears that if type = suburb
the infobox displays "Suburbs around suburb_name
". (I presume that this applies to other types ("city" etc), but haven't checked. I'll refer to suburbs here, but it could probably be generalised to towns,
LGAs etc.) However not all suburbs are completely surrounded by other suburbs - suburbs on the coast, for example, have an ocean on one side, not a suburb. So when using this infobox, an editor might put:
In some cases the editor might put the name of a river or bridge (possibly in italics or brackets) - example Bowen Bridge to the NW of Risdon - although I suspect that is probably wrong. What should be listed is the suburb on the other side of the river or bridge, because the infobox displays "Suburbs around ...".
Some guidance in the template documentation - or change to the infobox - to achieve consistent usage would good. (For background on what prompted this, see User talk:Mitch Ames#says who?. You can probably safely skip the discussion prior to the first outdent, and my post of 11:40, 17 March 2022 (UTC).) Suggestions:
Mitch Ames ( talk) 05:24, 19 March 2022 (UTC)
in italics (which is what MOS:EMPHASIS suggests for indicating a contrast to alert the reader this isn't another suburb/locality name)— I disagree with that interpretation of MOS:EMPHASIS, which says (with my emphasis here) "to stress a contrast". I don't think we need to stress the contrast between (for example) a suburb and a body of water. Nor are we trying to "draw attention" to the not-suburb, nor make "the point or thrust of the sentence". What we are trying to do is indicate that the text denotes something that is not actually what its place (in a table of "Suburbs around X") claims it to be (a suburb).
This
edit request to
Template:Infobox Australian place has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Hi there, for design consistency and inclusion of important details can we please have the Native Name module that is available on Infobox: settlement? For example see /info/en/?search=Tasmania /info/en/?search=Saint_Petersburg /info/en/?search=Beijing Poketama ( talk) 16:46, 23 April 2022 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Template:Infobox Australian place has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
It would be very useful if this template didn't restrict which parameters are displayed for each "type". I generally am not editing cities/towns, administrative divisions or IUCN protected areas, so I often end up having to mess around just a little bit with the type or with the way I'm using a parameter in order to get it to show the key points for that place. For example - I would consider native title to be protected regions, and population would be a reasonable measure there. The net of what's allowed when also makes the template code just that bit more inaccessible to read, increases risk of errors, and makes it harder to maintain accurate documentation. -- Xurizuri ( talk) 15:51, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
Currently the native_name is displayed in the infobox, but there's nothing to indicate that it is an Indigenous name (as opposed to a suburb, region, etc), even when native_name_lang is set. Example: Albany, Western Australia. (As a Western Australian, familiar with Albany, I know that in this case Kinjarling is not going to be a suburb or region, but that's not true in the general case.) I suggest that the native name should indicated somehow, either in italics or - probably better - prefixed with the language name, eg as {{ lang-nys}} does, in the lead sentence of that article. Mitch Ames ( talk) 02:03, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
Those of you who frequent this template page may be interested to know that since we matched the ABS SSC/SAL codes to Wikidata/Wikipedia items last time, it will be fairly fast to get the populations into the right places on Wikidata this time. They are uploading as a batch now. For an example of how they will appear, see wikidata:Q50809626#P1082. -- 99of9 ( talk) 11:57, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
I'd like to suggest
this change to deprecate |local_map_id=
and replace it with the more general-purpose |wikidata=
. The former is for the Wikidata item to use to display a slippy map, and the latter is for the new population lookup. I can't think of a reason to use two different Wikidata items within the same infobox; it'd just be confusing. It's something of a convention for templates that use Wikidata data to have a parameter that allows overriding (by default they use whatever item is linked to the page). —
Sam
Wilson 08:01, 1 July 2022 (UTC)
Although useful, what is the significance of adding the distance to a City or Town under the Location fields? Would it make more sense to mark a distance to reflect if its under a particular metropolitan or regional area or perhaps identify its placing within the ABS Remoteness Structure? Sdinesh2222 ( talk) 10:57, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
In the 2021 census, not all population counts are numeric. Probably for privacy reasons, they are reluctant to provide data for places with little or no population, describing it as "No information can be provided because the area selected had no people or a very low population in the 2021 Census.", for example [14]. So I went to put "no or low population" in the "pop" field for that locality article and of course it does a dummy spit when it tries to calculate the density because the value in "pop" is not numeric. However, that is the value provided by the ABS so we need to accommodate it. I can see two approaches:
Your thoughts? Kerry ( talk) 01:56, 6 February 2023 (UTC)
|pop=
contains a number. If it does, the density calculation proceeds. If it does not, density is not displayed. I checked the
testcases page (see the box for Garrawalt there), and I don't think I broke anything. –
Jonesey95 (
talk) 04:47, 6 February 2023 (UTC)
In a similar vein I've just tried to use <pop> and <pop2> at Rottnest Island, however I can't get <pop2> to trigger - is <pop2> unavailable if <pop> is left blank to trigger the autofeed from Wikidata? ITBF ( talk) 15:26, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
|pop2=
is displayed only if |pop=
has a value. If |pop=
is empty, the population is retrieved from Wikidata. Some different logic in the code could probably make pop2 work independently. –
Jonesey95 (
talk) 16:05, 13 March 2023 (UTC)I would suggest making it clear in the infobox that it is about a place in Australia. Perhaps not needed by some readers but not at all obvious to those not already familiar with places in Australia. Gab4gab ( talk) 16:14, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
Hundred of Evan, New South Wales is showing "Lua error in Module:PopulationFromWikidata at line 150: attempt to index field 'claims' (a nil value).". That is because a dumb bot just created Evan (Q119285824) which caused Module:PopulationFromWikidata to insert junk. Writing code that interfaces with the anything-goes Wikidata is difficult and susceptible to hard-to-find vandalism so I'm sympathetic but am reporting here per "Please report any feedback". Would someone please investigate how to deal with this and perhaps ask if Module:PopulationFromWikidata can be fixed to check return values. Johnuniq ( talk) 23:04, 10 June 2023 (UTC)
The "Native name" parameter is used differently here then it's original intent. Native in the original case is not related to being indigenous it's related to the local language.... that in Australia's case may be indigenous in nature... but this parameter is mislabeled in its usage according to the usage across Wikipedia....like Template:Infobox country or Template:Infobox settlement. Moxy- 02:33, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
Having deleted the 2016 census population from the infobox of Gootchie, Queensland, I was expecting the 2021 census data to magically appear with a 2021 census citation, but it didn't. Instead, the 2016 census data appeared with not one but two 2016 census citations, identical except one had an access date and the other didn't. My first thought was that there wasn't any 2021 census data for Gootchie, but yes there is 2021 data according to Quickstats. Then I thought maybe somehow that 2021 data hadn't got into Wikidata, but yes it has and both 2016 and 2021 census URLs are in the wikidata. BUT the odd thing here is that the population in 2016 and 2021 is the same (both 96 says the ABS). So in Wikidata, Gootchie has one population value (96) with two "points in time" and 2 citations. Now, information-wise, this is correct. But my suspicion is that the module is NOT expecting this, but is expecting to see two values, each with a different "point in time" and citation as it does when the population is different (e.g. see Goomeribong, Queensland where I just removed the population data from its infobox and everything worked as expected). So I think we have a bug, either in the uploading of the 2021 census into Wikidata (when the value is the same as the previous one) OR in this module by not expecting the value to be shared between 2 censuses. Kerry ( talk) 00:42, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Template:Infobox Australian place has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please change "{{{area|}}}|R}}|km2|sqmi}}}}}} {{{density_footnotes|}}}" to "{{{area|}}}|R}}|km2|sqmi}}}}}}{{{density_footnotes|}}}" (delete a space, per MOS:CITEPUNCT). — DocWatson42 ( talk) 11:11, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
<ref>...</ref>
tags and a citation template". See
Adelaide for an example where this change would result in poor formatting.Is there any way to allow the template to display multiple IUCN categories? In case of the Jurien Bay Marine Park, it is sub-divided into areas with multiple uses, being Ia, II and VI (see reference), with II being majority of the area of the marine park. Calistemon ( talk) 03:19, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 5 | ← | Archive 7 | Archive 8 | Archive 9 |
Template:Infobox Australian place/sandbox turned into a wrapper [1].
Compare at Template:Infobox Australian place/testcases . TerraCyprus ( talk) 14:38, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
Major issue:
Module:Australian place map sometimes returns maps below the state level, this is not implemented in |pushpin_map=
yet. I don't understand the code in the module and have no experience with lua. @
Frietjes: you created that module, could you make it work that |pushpin_map=
gets any sub-state-level map and while the switching between different maps is kept?
TerraCyprus (
talk) 14:23, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
<ol>
markup. also, FYI, per
this thread no pushpin map when there is an LGA map.
Frietjes (
talk) 14:56, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
|pushpin_map=
the # is the way to enable map switching.
TerraCyprus (
talk) 15:03, 15 September 2020 (UTC)Frietjes pointed to Template_talk:Infobox_Australian_place/Archive_8#Coordinates_in_infoboxes, saying "no pushpin map when there is an LGA map". The LGA map is a pushpin map too, isn't it? TerraCyprus ( talk) 15:02, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
@ McVahl: regarding your request for the placement of the image, in the wrapper version it is a bit more to the top now. But I found no way to move it further up, should be addressed at Template_talk:Infobox settlement. One could use the shield/coatofarms image parameters, but a logo isn't any of these. TerraCyprus ( talk) 15:31, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
The live version is fine.why? And does that preclude the creation of something finer? TerraCyprus ( talk) 16:21, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
The live version does everything that it needs to do, and more, is easy to use, is aesthetically appealing and not bloatedthat is equally true for the wrapper version. With the benefit on top, to have the image issue mentioned by McVahl addressed by placing the image a bit higher. TerraCyprus ( talk) 19:12, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
|logo=
parameter. Would rather consider something “low important” if there are only less than 20 articles. –
McVahl (
talk) 20:19, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
that is equally true for the wrapper version.No, just ... No! The wrapper version handles some data differently to the way that this infobox does. Infobox settlement is not easy to use, which is why you need to create a wrapper in the first place. It is not aesthetically appealing. There is just something wrong with the font and spacing in IS. It's like the 87-year-old whose tramp stamp doesn't look the same as it did when she was a 19-year-old hottie many years ago. By comparison look at any one of a number of other infoboxes: {{ Infobox television}}, {{ Infobox person}}, {{ Infobox film}}, {{ Infobox building}}, {{ Infobox monument}}, {{ Infobox protected area}}, {{ Infobox school}}, {{ Infobox university}} etc. They all look a lot better than IS, especially without the ridiculous horizontal lines. Note that this infobox generally mirrors the appearance of those. IS actually hurts my eyes. The others don't. As for bloating, the wrapper is based on IS. The wrapper is just under 24.6kB, IS is 59.8kB. This entire infobox is just under 22kB, which is even smaller than just the wrapper. So yes, the wrapper/IS is bloated.
With the benefit on top, to have the image issue mentioned by McVahl addressed by placing the image a bit higher.There is no rule that states all images have to be at the top of an infobox. {{ Infobox university}} (used on more than 22,500 pages) has the logo at the bottom. See, for example, University of Oxford.
Little importance?- I actually said
it's of little importance, or at least a lot lower importance than the other data in the infobox.. You missed the crucial second part. Infoboxes should prioritise information. Location, population, area etc are important information. The logo is less important and many LGAs regularly change theirs. That's why it's lower down than the more important information. -- AussieLegend ( ✉) 16:56, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
Just a little thing, but I don't think we generally include flags in infoboxes. Looks great otherwise! ItsPugle (please ping on reply) 06:35, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
@ Jonesey95, ItsPugle, AussieLegend, Techie3, and Frietjes: what would you prefer? country= {{AUS}} or [[Australia]]? TerraCyprus ( talk) 17:14, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
@
Betterkeks: re your request above, now with the wrapper it could be *very* easily be coded so that a value of |module=
in the Australian place template is passed to to |module=
in {{
Infobox settlement}}. But first it would be needed to use the new wrapper code.
TerraCyprus (
talk) 15:35, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
@ ItsPugle, Jonesey95, AussieLegend, and Michael Bednarek: re your discussion about the presentation of the population density. The wrapper in the sandbox implements the standard behavior of {{ Infobox settlement}}, that is a bullet point before "Density", but inside a section for population, not standalone. TerraCyprus ( talk) 15:40, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
The image at the top of the sandbox infobox is quite small. I experimented just a little bit to see if I could make it larger, but I was unsuccessful. – Jonesey95 ( talk) 16:04, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
{{#invoke:InfoboxImage|...|upright=yes}}
ItsPugle (please
ping on reply) 08:10, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
|image_upright=0.81
, which looks like it isn't being passed to infobox settlement correctly in the sandbox (or maybe it is being overridden by the default image size?). Thanks for pointing out that problem, which someone will need to fix. –
Jonesey95 (
talk) 14:06, 17 September 2020 (UTC)@ Jonesey95 and ItsPugle: Template:Infobox_settlement#Images,_nickname,_motto mapsize, imagesize: "If used, px must be specified;", pushpin_mapsize: "The default value is 250."
I did set imagesize = 300px to make the infobox wider and did set the values for the others to 300 too, since a width of 300 is there anyway and to have it look more harmonious by having all images with the same width. Feel free to revert [5] and return to per article settings, which may result in different infobox sizes even for same type of entity. TerraCyprus ( talk) 15:30, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
px
(e.g. |thumb|300px
), which forces a fixed image width measured in pixels, disregarding the user's image size preference setting." this infobox doesn't force image sizes, it does as WP:IMGSIZE says and uses "image_upright". "px" was removed a long time ago. The default image width for Australian articles is |image_upright=1.23
. Some infoboxes have 2 images, a locator map and a suburb map and can result in the infobox taking up far more real estate than it should, especially on the many barely-a-stub articles that we have. This also ensures that all the images and maps default to a similar size. --
AussieLegend (
✉) 17:21, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
px
is used, the resulting image should usually be no more than 500 pixels tall and no more than 400 pixels wide, for comfortable display on the smallest devices "in common use" (though this may still cause viewing difficulties on some unusual displays). To convert a px
value to scaling_factor
, divide it by 220 and round the result as desired.upright=1.35
(equivalent to 300px at the default preference selection of "220px").What is this discussion aiming to achieve? -- AussieLegend ( ✉) 15:52, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
There could be more consensus for a merge if a demonstration of the merged template were created first, which is being done here. I think we can agree that TerraCyprus is working on this in a productive manner in the sandbox first, and from the looks of it achieving great results. They're also working on it publicly, in a non-time-limited manner here. I think we should all be supporting these efforts and working with the editor, providing feedback on the matters on which they bring to our attention, to achieve a great result. It would also alleviate your concerns at the TfD, so I'd have thought you'd also be championing these efforts. ProcrastinatingReader ( talk) 13:39, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
I think this has been done and the wrapper could go live.There has been a lot of discussion but nothing asking where all the issues are. -- AussieLegend ( ✉) 17:53, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
we should focus on making the new version look as similar as possible to the old version. after that, we can discuss styling improvements- I think this has been done and the wrapper could go live. TerraCyprus ( talk) 16:16, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
but nothing asking where all the issues are??
I have created
Template:Infobox_Australian_place/testcases#Types_of_places -- it has examples of each |type=
of this infobox. Aside from my suggestions above, the only blocker I see is that IS needs to have proper mapframe support. Ideally also proper rainfall/weather support, but embedding is not a blocker. Other than that, I think this looks fine, per Frietjes's comments. I think it contains awful non-infobox material (e.g. the "See also" in an infobox?!), but I guess if it wasn't added some would say it's "missing functionality".
Protected areas should, as I mentioned in the TfD, move to {{ Infobox protected area}}. The wrapper handles them fine, but it's not the right way of doing it. We need to move away from the idea that Australia can just create its own versions of templates of each wiki-wide place template, and instead see the areas as the type of area that they are, rather than the location they are in. The status quo is filled with egregious MOS:INFOBOXES violations, likely the greatest violation to several infobox principles of any highly transcluded template. ProcrastinatingReader ( talk) 18:06, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
Aside from my suggestions above, the only blocker I see is that IS needs to have proper mapframe support.- That's not the only issue. a lot is to do with the way that data is presented.
it contains awful non-infobox material (e.g. the "See also" in an infobox?!)- That is protected area related. This is not the only infobox that uses this. I checked when I had to rewrite the Australian protected area infobox.
Protected areas should, as I mentioned in the TfD, move to {{ Infobox protected area}}.- I direct you back to the merge discussion where I explained in detail why protected area were eventually incorporated into this infobox.
I think the wrapper addresses all functionality- It doesn't. There are reasons why this infobox does what it does and the wrapper doesn't do it properly.
We need to move away from the idea that Australia can just create its own versions of templates of each wiki-wide place template,- This sort of arrogance is why there is animosity when somebody suggests a merge or deletion without properly preparing yourself. You've been on Wikipedia for 5 minutes and you're dictating what should or shouldn't be done when you clearly have not bothered to research what has been done and why it was done. I realise that today's "coders" don't see the need to ask the end users what they want and what they need before throwing something together, but I've been programming for 45 years and I have always found it best to consult the end users, especially to ask questions like "why do you need it done that way?" and then try to comply with the answer, rather than force some piece of crap on them that only sort of did what they wanted. There have been valid reasons for everything that has been done to this infobox. -- AussieLegend ( ✉) 17:17, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
There has been a lot of discussion but nothing asking where all the issues are.and simultaneously badgering me whilst I speak to other editors. All you have to do, to add merit to your claims, and be helpful at the same time, is send a link to the articles where it's broken. Very simple stuff.Here you refer editors to:
direct you back to the merge discussion. In the merge discussion you vaguely refer editors to read the archives. The same pattern goes on in all Australian place merge discussions going back a decade ( eg). So where's the actual root discussion? Well, nobody knows.In past merge discussions you've vigorously defended the right for Australian places to have their own infoboxes, with one vague reason or another. It doesn't take long to catch up when there's decades of archives sitting around. Why would any end user understand what is going on with the differences of Australian places? Why should they be fundamentally different to every single other city? Why is this understandable to readers, who are not especially familiar with the Australian WikiProject or the Template talk:Infobox Australian place archives, when reading Melbourne? The simple answer is: they shouldn't, and they aren't. And the wiki would be much better off with TerraCyprus's work.Nobody denies that you are effective (I mean that in a nice way). But I guess that's why it's so worrying when an editor creates a working sandbox version; how does one vigorously, in a wishy-washy manner, say that a merge is technically infeasible when it's already been done?! I have faith in you -- you will figure it out :) ProcrastinatingReader ( talk) 10:52, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
Correct, it should look as close as possible to the rest of the live settlement articles- No, and that's a silly thing to say. Any IS based wrapper is going to look like IS. This one should look as much like Infobox Australian place and it certainly comes nowhere near that. As I've said, the presentation of the data is as it is for good reasons. Some of the presentation by the wrapper just looks ridiculous from an Australian point of view.
Absolutely no reason to try retain the rainbow colour scheme, or any of those 'features', and those differences are desirable.- In your opinion only.
wrapper seems fine from testcases.- Clearly it is not and if you would only compare what the wrapper presents to what this infobox presents, it should be blatantly obvious. If you can't see that, then maybe you shouldn't be a templateeditor. Instead of asking "what are the problems?" you should be asking "why does this infobox do this in that way?"
but even you cannot make a specific objection to any part of it- I can make lots of specific objections, but I shouldn't have to and I'm not required to. You should be able to see the problems for yourself if you could objectively compare the testcases. -- AussieLegend ( ✉) 14:15, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
A comment on the sandbox and the testcases page: A quick perusal of the testcases page showed that parameters used in Module:Australian place map, and listed in the unknown parameter check as hints to the sandbox developer, were not yet supported in the sandbox. I have added two of them, but the sandbox and the testcases page need development in order to retain support for all of those parameters. – Jonesey95 ( talk) 21:34, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
This sort of change by stealth is not how Wikipedia works.- Indeed that is correct but ProcrastinatingReader doesn't seem to understand that. As I have said, it's almost heading into WP:FAIT territory. A wrapper was discussed in the recent merge discussion and there was no consensus for one. One editor even withdrew his support for a wrapper. Any changes have to be addressed in another discussion at WP:TFD. That this page has 65 watchers is pretty irrelevant. Some of those watchers may be inactive, others are not Australian, so any changes have to be considered in the correct venue and that shouldn't happen until the wrapper is fixed substantially. -- AussieLegend ( ✉) 14:15, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
Feel free to point out any PAG... The outcome to merge was no consensus not keep, literally nothing is inconsistent with it. We're not proposing deletion/merge, someone is proposing a template change, same as adding a tracking category, changing or adding a field, or something else. I'm not personally going to implement anything, I just voiced my support on the talk page. As have others voiced their openness and procedural support, who are respected long-time template editors.And to jog your memory a little bit {{ Infobox protected area of Australia}} was discussed twice at TfD [7] [8]. Yet you unilaterally replaced it to avoid a proper merge to the proposed target. Are you saying that everyone else must go to a specific venue, not supported by PAGs, but you can do whatever you want? Whilst you're explaining the PAG support of your view of consensus, you may want to also reconcile this with WP:OWNERSHIP. :) ProcrastinatingReader ( talk) 15:53, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
We're not proposing deletion/merge, someone is proposing a template change, same as adding a tracking category, changing or adding a field, or something else.- Not at all the same. A wrapper was proposed at the discussion and rejected with, as I've pointed out, one editor even removing support for a wrapper.
to jog your memory a little bit {{ Infobox protected area of Australia}} was discussed twice at TfD [9] [10].- There's no need to jog my memory as I raised this at the recent merge discussion for this template. [11] It appears that you are the one needing a memory jog so let's ignore the fantasy and discuss what actually happened. The template was discussed in 2011 with the result being "no consensus". It was again discussed in 2013, again with an outcome of no consensus. I then opened a discussion at Template talk:Infobox protected area, suggesting that changes proposed in 2011 be implemented in {{ Infobox protected area}} and it then replace Template:Infobox protected area of Australia. [12] Nearly 7 years later I still haven't had a response. I then set about rewriting Infobox protected area of Australia to provide a functional infobox without all the hacks that were needed with the previous version and that was used for a year. It was at that time that I realised a lot of functionality was common with this one and so it was merged into this one. I'm sure you'll agree that when there are several templates with almost the same functionality available in each one, it's better to consolidate them.
Yet you unilaterally replaced it to avoid a proper merge to the proposed target.- As demonstrated, this allegation is baseless fantasy, offensive, and bordering on a personal attack. -- AussieLegend ( ✉) 16:31, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
I have faith in you -- you will figure it out :). Good luck! ProcrastinatingReader ( talk) 23:33, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
The gaslighting here is incredible.- That in itself is almost a personal attack. Your accusation was
you unilaterally replaced it to avoid a proper merge to the proposed target.which is not true at all, as demonstrated in my last post.
just laying out the series of events- Except that you didn't lay out what actually happened. Instead you presented a complete misinterpretation of what actually happened, presenting it as fact. -- AussieLegend ( ✉) 12:39, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
Strong oppose - I strongly oppose these changes without obtaining consensus outside the users who inhabit this talk page.- whom do you refer to by "the users who inhabit this talk page"? One of the standard procedures in WP is to discuss on talk pages, gain consensus there, and implement changes after said consensus has been reached. TerraCyprus ( talk) 23:29, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
The converted farenhite temps are displayed is a small font size which goes against MOS:SMALL. Please change to normal font. MB 23:51, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
http://www.travelmate.com.au/MapMaker/MapMaker.asp This is recommended for use for distance calculation between two locations. However this has been dead for some years. It is used in many places [13] many of which are talk pages where it is shown as being archived back in 2016. However TravelMate does not work in archived format so for all intents and purposes it is a dead link. I have flagged it as a dead link in a few locations I have encountered it in the last few days. It should at least be removed from documentation as recommended for use as a distance calculator. Fleet Lists ( talk) 22:12, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
Hi, I just wanted to ask, why do we need special infobox for places in Australia. I don't see any other countries getting their own infoboxes for cities, rather simply using template:Infobox settlement. I don't get why there's a need for a special infobox for cities in Australia if they could be represented by settlement infobox.
Also if we really need it, I wanted to propose unifying the design of the infobox with design of template:Infobox settlement, to make overall design on Wikipedia more unitary. Specially, that from that I see, Australian place template is the lonely example in case of infoboxes not falling into the same colour scheme and design form as other infoboxes. I propose making them look the same, while keeping special information that Australian template might contain and adding missing information from settlement infobox (like usage of flags, logos and coat of arms, etc.). TheEditMate ( talk) 17:17, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
At present, this template does not appear to track any fields from Wikidata. I wonder if it is time to start a conversation about the population data from the 2021 census. The 2016 census appears to have reported population using the same Bounded Locality (LOCB) boundaries as are used to delimit localities in enwiki, defined by state governments and mapped in OpenStreetMap. It seems likely that the 2021 and onwards census will use these same boundaries, making population figures more comparable in future than they have been in the past.
There are still town/locality articles using this infobox with either no population number, or one much older than the 2016 census, yet have a link to a wikidata item that has the 2016 population. Presumably when it becomes available, the 2021 population dataset will also be uploaded to Wikidata and matched to all of those items. Could we consider the infoboxes automatically picking up the 2021 population from Wikidata once it is available and automatically including it for any place types that have corresponding population figures, rather than requiring editors to manually add it (and the reference) as we have done fro 2016 population?
What do other editors think? -- Scott Davis Talk 13:07, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
State Suburbs (SSCs): An ABS approximation of gazetted localities constructed from the allocation of one or more whole Mesh Blocks.Mesh Blocks are designed taking boundaries into account. LGAs have similar definition language to State Suburbs. Perhaps @ 99of9 has insight into whether this is expected to be stable going forward that 2016 population could be directly imported to Wikipedia infoboxes for LGAs, suburbs and towns, then switched to or augmented with 2021 data when available? -- Scott Davis Talk 22:15, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
@
Techie3,
Jonesey95,
TerraCyprus,
Frietjes,
AussieLegend,
Galobtter,
WOSlinker,
Fayenatic london,
Plastikspork,
Pppery, and
ScottDavis: In
Template:Infobox Australian place/testcases, the only section that uses |local_map_id=
is §NSW - town - Raymond Terrace, which sets the parameter to Q595259. Using
Special:ExpandTemplates on this section and the help of
User:PerfektesChaos/js/lintHint, I find that this parameter and value cause five lint errors, viz:
</table>
<table>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
Setting the parameter to a value of Bogusmapid removes the lint errors. I don't know what is going on and what is being tested here. If there is something intentionally wrong with Q595259, I recommend inserting comment there saying something like, "causes lint errors; do not fix". I don't think this is the case, because the lint errors seem to be associated only with {{
Infobox Australian place/sandbox}}
. If Q595259 is supposed to work properly, and the lint errors are associated only with the sandbox version, then no comment here, but the sandbox should be fixed to make the 5 lint errors go away, whether or not the sandbox displays as intended. Either that, or delete the sandbox altogether, so that
Template:Infobox Australian place/testcases won't be the only template listed at
Lint errors: Table tag that should be deleted in the template namespace. —
Anomalocaris (
talk) 22:01, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
{{Infobox|child=yes|...}}
with |module=
from {{
Infobox settlement}}. If you check the code for {{
Infobox settlement}} you will see that the "module" is wrapped inside of a table, but {{Infobox|child=yes|...}}
doesn't generate an entire table, only the table rows. To see this, try {{Infobox|child=yes|data2={{Infobox mapframe|zoom=|id=Q595259}}}}
in
Special:ExpandTemplates and for a complete example, you can try {{Infobox settlement|module={{Infobox|child=yes|data2={{Infobox mapframe|zoom=|id=Q595259}}}}}}
. Note that there is special code in
Module:Infobox to fix these child boxes, it only works if they are passed directly, and not wrapped inside of another table. For now, I will switch the sandbox to use |subbox=yes
instead of |child=yes
since the former generates a well-formed table. Thanks!
Plastikspork
―Œ(talk) 22:40, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
Many Australian places now have a local Aboriginal name assigned to them, and I think it would be helpful to be able to include these in the infobox. There may be other instances where an alternative name may be appropriate too. Laterthanyouthink ( talk) 06:38, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
When I inserted |image_upright = 0.8
in the infobox coding at
Serviceton, the size of the infobox image remained unchanged. Same with |upright = 0.9
. I then inserted |image_size =200px
, which worked, but resulted in the appearance of "Preview warning: Page using Template:Infobox Australian place with unknown parameter "image_size"".
For information, and hopefully fixing. Cheers, SCHolar44 ( talk) 11:55, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
|image_upright=0.8
it's now at 180px by 180px. --
Michael Bednarek (
talk) 14:30, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
|logo=
field which, by default, also sets a default of |logo_upright=0.8
. This field is normally only for LGAs but Serviceton is a special case. As a special note, it's also discussed in an interesting YouTube video titled
The Border Mistake That Created a Disputed Territory. --
AussieLegend (
✉) 15:59, 26 August 2021 (UTC)This
edit request to
Template:Infobox Australian place has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Change "label27 = Federal Division(s)" to "label27 = Federal division(s)" because Wikipedia headings are supposed to be written in sentence-case. Woko Sapien ( talk) 20:17, 4 October 2021 (UTC)
See discussion at Wikipedia:Australian_Wikipedians'_notice_board#Places_Infobox_and_Indigenous_Nations/Language_Groups. Mitch Ames ( talk) 09:33, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
Hallo, I was stub-sorting Kamarooka, Victoria , and adding some geog context to its lead, I realised that the infobox didn't tell the reader what country it's in. Yes, it says "Victoria", but that requires the international reader to recognise the name of the state as being part of Australia. I checked a place in England and one in the USA, and both of these give the country in the infobox. I suggest that the reader would be better served if this infobox displayed "Country: Australia". Pam D 09:04, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
This
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https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T301588 recently allowed editors to add the parameter "class=notpageimage" to an image to prevent it from being used as the page preview image. In Perth, for example, the map generated by this template has taken precedence over the nice skyline image as the page preview image, and I am unable to add the parameter to the map on the article itself. For this reason, I am requesting that the paramenter "class=notpageimage" be added automatically to the maps generated by this template. Alternatively, if one still wants to allow maps as the page preview, (e.g. for small places with no other images), a parameter should added to the template that adds the notpageimage parameter to the map, so that this can be done by choice on articles where that is deemed necessary. Toadspike ( talk) 23:39, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
I don't want to edit the page myself given the notice at the top, but this is a request for a traditional custodians/aboriginal country/ aboriginal language group or another preffered title be added as an optional section to Australian place infoboxes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Notcharizard ( talk • contribs) 05:33, 3 April 2022 (UTC) -- ☽☆ NotCharizard ( talk) 05:35, 3 April 2022 (UTC)
The template includes parameters near-n
etc for "nearest neighbour". It appears that if type = suburb
the infobox displays "Suburbs around suburb_name
". (I presume that this applies to other types ("city" etc), but haven't checked. I'll refer to suburbs here, but it could probably be generalised to towns,
LGAs etc.) However not all suburbs are completely surrounded by other suburbs - suburbs on the coast, for example, have an ocean on one side, not a suburb. So when using this infobox, an editor might put:
In some cases the editor might put the name of a river or bridge (possibly in italics or brackets) - example Bowen Bridge to the NW of Risdon - although I suspect that is probably wrong. What should be listed is the suburb on the other side of the river or bridge, because the infobox displays "Suburbs around ...".
Some guidance in the template documentation - or change to the infobox - to achieve consistent usage would good. (For background on what prompted this, see User talk:Mitch Ames#says who?. You can probably safely skip the discussion prior to the first outdent, and my post of 11:40, 17 March 2022 (UTC).) Suggestions:
Mitch Ames ( talk) 05:24, 19 March 2022 (UTC)
in italics (which is what MOS:EMPHASIS suggests for indicating a contrast to alert the reader this isn't another suburb/locality name)— I disagree with that interpretation of MOS:EMPHASIS, which says (with my emphasis here) "to stress a contrast". I don't think we need to stress the contrast between (for example) a suburb and a body of water. Nor are we trying to "draw attention" to the not-suburb, nor make "the point or thrust of the sentence". What we are trying to do is indicate that the text denotes something that is not actually what its place (in a table of "Suburbs around X") claims it to be (a suburb).
This
edit request to
Template:Infobox Australian place has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Hi there, for design consistency and inclusion of important details can we please have the Native Name module that is available on Infobox: settlement? For example see /info/en/?search=Tasmania /info/en/?search=Saint_Petersburg /info/en/?search=Beijing Poketama ( talk) 16:46, 23 April 2022 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Template:Infobox Australian place has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
It would be very useful if this template didn't restrict which parameters are displayed for each "type". I generally am not editing cities/towns, administrative divisions or IUCN protected areas, so I often end up having to mess around just a little bit with the type or with the way I'm using a parameter in order to get it to show the key points for that place. For example - I would consider native title to be protected regions, and population would be a reasonable measure there. The net of what's allowed when also makes the template code just that bit more inaccessible to read, increases risk of errors, and makes it harder to maintain accurate documentation. -- Xurizuri ( talk) 15:51, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
Currently the native_name is displayed in the infobox, but there's nothing to indicate that it is an Indigenous name (as opposed to a suburb, region, etc), even when native_name_lang is set. Example: Albany, Western Australia. (As a Western Australian, familiar with Albany, I know that in this case Kinjarling is not going to be a suburb or region, but that's not true in the general case.) I suggest that the native name should indicated somehow, either in italics or - probably better - prefixed with the language name, eg as {{ lang-nys}} does, in the lead sentence of that article. Mitch Ames ( talk) 02:03, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
Those of you who frequent this template page may be interested to know that since we matched the ABS SSC/SAL codes to Wikidata/Wikipedia items last time, it will be fairly fast to get the populations into the right places on Wikidata this time. They are uploading as a batch now. For an example of how they will appear, see wikidata:Q50809626#P1082. -- 99of9 ( talk) 11:57, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
I'd like to suggest
this change to deprecate |local_map_id=
and replace it with the more general-purpose |wikidata=
. The former is for the Wikidata item to use to display a slippy map, and the latter is for the new population lookup. I can't think of a reason to use two different Wikidata items within the same infobox; it'd just be confusing. It's something of a convention for templates that use Wikidata data to have a parameter that allows overriding (by default they use whatever item is linked to the page). —
Sam
Wilson 08:01, 1 July 2022 (UTC)
Although useful, what is the significance of adding the distance to a City or Town under the Location fields? Would it make more sense to mark a distance to reflect if its under a particular metropolitan or regional area or perhaps identify its placing within the ABS Remoteness Structure? Sdinesh2222 ( talk) 10:57, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
In the 2021 census, not all population counts are numeric. Probably for privacy reasons, they are reluctant to provide data for places with little or no population, describing it as "No information can be provided because the area selected had no people or a very low population in the 2021 Census.", for example [14]. So I went to put "no or low population" in the "pop" field for that locality article and of course it does a dummy spit when it tries to calculate the density because the value in "pop" is not numeric. However, that is the value provided by the ABS so we need to accommodate it. I can see two approaches:
Your thoughts? Kerry ( talk) 01:56, 6 February 2023 (UTC)
|pop=
contains a number. If it does, the density calculation proceeds. If it does not, density is not displayed. I checked the
testcases page (see the box for Garrawalt there), and I don't think I broke anything. –
Jonesey95 (
talk) 04:47, 6 February 2023 (UTC)
In a similar vein I've just tried to use <pop> and <pop2> at Rottnest Island, however I can't get <pop2> to trigger - is <pop2> unavailable if <pop> is left blank to trigger the autofeed from Wikidata? ITBF ( talk) 15:26, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
|pop2=
is displayed only if |pop=
has a value. If |pop=
is empty, the population is retrieved from Wikidata. Some different logic in the code could probably make pop2 work independently. –
Jonesey95 (
talk) 16:05, 13 March 2023 (UTC)I would suggest making it clear in the infobox that it is about a place in Australia. Perhaps not needed by some readers but not at all obvious to those not already familiar with places in Australia. Gab4gab ( talk) 16:14, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
Hundred of Evan, New South Wales is showing "Lua error in Module:PopulationFromWikidata at line 150: attempt to index field 'claims' (a nil value).". That is because a dumb bot just created Evan (Q119285824) which caused Module:PopulationFromWikidata to insert junk. Writing code that interfaces with the anything-goes Wikidata is difficult and susceptible to hard-to-find vandalism so I'm sympathetic but am reporting here per "Please report any feedback". Would someone please investigate how to deal with this and perhaps ask if Module:PopulationFromWikidata can be fixed to check return values. Johnuniq ( talk) 23:04, 10 June 2023 (UTC)
The "Native name" parameter is used differently here then it's original intent. Native in the original case is not related to being indigenous it's related to the local language.... that in Australia's case may be indigenous in nature... but this parameter is mislabeled in its usage according to the usage across Wikipedia....like Template:Infobox country or Template:Infobox settlement. Moxy- 02:33, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
Having deleted the 2016 census population from the infobox of Gootchie, Queensland, I was expecting the 2021 census data to magically appear with a 2021 census citation, but it didn't. Instead, the 2016 census data appeared with not one but two 2016 census citations, identical except one had an access date and the other didn't. My first thought was that there wasn't any 2021 census data for Gootchie, but yes there is 2021 data according to Quickstats. Then I thought maybe somehow that 2021 data hadn't got into Wikidata, but yes it has and both 2016 and 2021 census URLs are in the wikidata. BUT the odd thing here is that the population in 2016 and 2021 is the same (both 96 says the ABS). So in Wikidata, Gootchie has one population value (96) with two "points in time" and 2 citations. Now, information-wise, this is correct. But my suspicion is that the module is NOT expecting this, but is expecting to see two values, each with a different "point in time" and citation as it does when the population is different (e.g. see Goomeribong, Queensland where I just removed the population data from its infobox and everything worked as expected). So I think we have a bug, either in the uploading of the 2021 census into Wikidata (when the value is the same as the previous one) OR in this module by not expecting the value to be shared between 2 censuses. Kerry ( talk) 00:42, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Template:Infobox Australian place has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please change "{{{area|}}}|R}}|km2|sqmi}}}}}} {{{density_footnotes|}}}" to "{{{area|}}}|R}}|km2|sqmi}}}}}}{{{density_footnotes|}}}" (delete a space, per MOS:CITEPUNCT). — DocWatson42 ( talk) 11:11, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
<ref>...</ref>
tags and a citation template". See
Adelaide for an example where this change would result in poor formatting.Is there any way to allow the template to display multiple IUCN categories? In case of the Jurien Bay Marine Park, it is sub-divided into areas with multiple uses, being Ia, II and VI (see reference), with II being majority of the area of the marine park. Calistemon ( talk) 03:19, 11 October 2023 (UTC)