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Yosemite, please explain why you removed the Flag of Hawaii in a template appropriate to its usage? — Viriditas | Talk 06:08, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
I've changed the name at the top of the template to "Hawaiian Legal Issues" in an attempt to compromise. While I don't think it's perfect--to be perfectly honest, I don't see what's wrong with "Hawaiian sovereignty movement", seeing as how it's a political movement involved in Hawaiian sovereignty--but I'm tendering it as a potential compromise. Thoughts? -- jonny- m t 07:31, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
I'm sorry, but Yosemitesam needs to stop gratuituously and incorrectly citing WP:SOAP to try to justify every POV assertion s/he makes, and to start looking at Wikipedia as a collaborative endeavor that requires not always getting their way at everything. Yosemitesam is a major pusher of what can at best be described as a "significant minority" viewpoint, and arguably verging on "fringe". I use both terms advisedly. Moreover, s/he is still are still assumed by some other editors to have potential major unresolved COI issues (viz. as a stalking horse for Grassroot Institute) that should be addressed at the earliest opportunity. In terms of substance, the "redundancy" charge is risible; such templates are found throughout Wikipedia, and the links in the template are different from those found at the end of the article. They add much to the series of articles, and to remove it would be a major disservice. As for the flag, the series is about Hawaii, which is indisputably part of the United States, and the Hawaiian state flag therefore is perfectly appropriate and implies nothing along the paranoid lines Yosemite that seems to suggest it does. Arjuna ( talk) 09:26, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
Yosemitesam25 has recently explained his objections to the current template, which I now understand. He seems to think that the navigational template appearing at the top right-hand corner makes it look like the sovereignty movement is in control of the article. As a compromise, I suggest we convert this template to an alternative nav footer for now, but focus on developing the main navigational bar in the future. — Viriditas | Talk 22:37, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
Thanks Viriditas. That is exactly my concern. I hear what you're saying but can't picture how it would look. If you'd like to go ahead and make the change (I don't know how to and I might mess it up but I'll try it that's what you prefer) we can go from there. My concern is not so much the location of the template as it is the title. -- Yosemitesam25 ( talk) 21:52, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
— Viriditas | Talk 22:31, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for providing an example of what a footer would look like. The footer or the header both seem fine but I still do think that either way, it's more even-handed to remove "Hawaiian sovereignty movement". If we could develop the title and the contents with the idea of strict neutrality, we wouldn't run the risk of advocating any political movement. Thought of in another way, it would probably be unfair if, instead of "Hawaiian sovereignty", we titled it "U.S. sovereignty in Hawai'i". -- Yosemitesam25 ( talk) 04:00, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
I fail to see how use of the term "Hawaiian Sovereignty Movement" implies endorsement. I am not a Hawaiian sovereignty supporter and in fact disagree with their aims, but I do not find use of the term offensive whatsoever as it is a descriptive term, well-used (c.f. Google) as jonny-mt points out. Yosemite's proposed "U.S. Sovereignty in Hawaii..." is highly misleading and POV and is a non-starter. Arjuna ( talk) 09:03, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
Sorry about being out of the loop for so long. I've gone ahead and whipped up a sample template in my userspace ( User:jonny-mt/Hawaii template). When transcluded, it looks like this:
Naturally, tweaks etc. are more than welcome. Now as for the name of the template/series, has anybody looked into "Hawaiian independence movement"? -- jonny- m t 12:18, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
![]() | This template does not require a rating on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||
|
Yosemite, please explain why you removed the Flag of Hawaii in a template appropriate to its usage? — Viriditas | Talk 06:08, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
I've changed the name at the top of the template to "Hawaiian Legal Issues" in an attempt to compromise. While I don't think it's perfect--to be perfectly honest, I don't see what's wrong with "Hawaiian sovereignty movement", seeing as how it's a political movement involved in Hawaiian sovereignty--but I'm tendering it as a potential compromise. Thoughts? -- jonny- m t 07:31, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
I'm sorry, but Yosemitesam needs to stop gratuituously and incorrectly citing WP:SOAP to try to justify every POV assertion s/he makes, and to start looking at Wikipedia as a collaborative endeavor that requires not always getting their way at everything. Yosemitesam is a major pusher of what can at best be described as a "significant minority" viewpoint, and arguably verging on "fringe". I use both terms advisedly. Moreover, s/he is still are still assumed by some other editors to have potential major unresolved COI issues (viz. as a stalking horse for Grassroot Institute) that should be addressed at the earliest opportunity. In terms of substance, the "redundancy" charge is risible; such templates are found throughout Wikipedia, and the links in the template are different from those found at the end of the article. They add much to the series of articles, and to remove it would be a major disservice. As for the flag, the series is about Hawaii, which is indisputably part of the United States, and the Hawaiian state flag therefore is perfectly appropriate and implies nothing along the paranoid lines Yosemite that seems to suggest it does. Arjuna ( talk) 09:26, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
Yosemitesam25 has recently explained his objections to the current template, which I now understand. He seems to think that the navigational template appearing at the top right-hand corner makes it look like the sovereignty movement is in control of the article. As a compromise, I suggest we convert this template to an alternative nav footer for now, but focus on developing the main navigational bar in the future. — Viriditas | Talk 22:37, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
Thanks Viriditas. That is exactly my concern. I hear what you're saying but can't picture how it would look. If you'd like to go ahead and make the change (I don't know how to and I might mess it up but I'll try it that's what you prefer) we can go from there. My concern is not so much the location of the template as it is the title. -- Yosemitesam25 ( talk) 21:52, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
— Viriditas | Talk 22:31, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for providing an example of what a footer would look like. The footer or the header both seem fine but I still do think that either way, it's more even-handed to remove "Hawaiian sovereignty movement". If we could develop the title and the contents with the idea of strict neutrality, we wouldn't run the risk of advocating any political movement. Thought of in another way, it would probably be unfair if, instead of "Hawaiian sovereignty", we titled it "U.S. sovereignty in Hawai'i". -- Yosemitesam25 ( talk) 04:00, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
I fail to see how use of the term "Hawaiian Sovereignty Movement" implies endorsement. I am not a Hawaiian sovereignty supporter and in fact disagree with their aims, but I do not find use of the term offensive whatsoever as it is a descriptive term, well-used (c.f. Google) as jonny-mt points out. Yosemite's proposed "U.S. Sovereignty in Hawaii..." is highly misleading and POV and is a non-starter. Arjuna ( talk) 09:03, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
Sorry about being out of the loop for so long. I've gone ahead and whipped up a sample template in my userspace ( User:jonny-mt/Hawaii template). When transcluded, it looks like this:
Naturally, tweaks etc. are more than welcome. Now as for the name of the template/series, has anybody looked into "Hawaiian independence movement"? -- jonny- m t 12:18, 18 March 2008 (UTC)