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While it is true that PIJ operates outside of Gaza for example, it is also true that Israel is not fighting in Yemen, nor in Iraq. We can roughly avoid mention of these intricacies, as we have already done in relation to Israel not fighting in Yemen or Iraq, by sorting into regions. This would give the reader a rough image of the situation. Makeandtoss ( talk) 19:29, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
Our tax dollars are used to aid the resolution of the conflict. 2601:152:C82:79B0:84F1:F030:4F3B:4F0C ( talk) 08:52, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
Why is there no graph showing the number of bombs dropped by Israel on Palestine, Syria, Lebanon? There exists graph depicting alleged Palestine-origin bombs. 2601:803:201:7B00:B06E:EC14:4477:EDFC ( talk) 22:00, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
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Change * 30,631+ killed [1] To * 30,631+ civilians killed [2] 193.191.179.1 ( talk) 07:45, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
References
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In the casualties section of the infobox, Gaza side, below the first line item, directly in the infobox and not in a popup note, add:
* 6,000 - 13,000 militants killed [a]
The full details of the three sources can be left in a popup note. It's better for NPOV. As suggested above by @ Alaexis on 2/27 (2nd reply). galenIgh 21:19, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
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M.Bitton (
talk)
02:57, 24 March 2024 (UTC)please establish a consensus for this alteration", but this is currently a problem due to the way two particular editors
Notes
@ RamHez: The citation for Iran is about the 2024 Iranian strikes in Israel. This is a synthesis since the attack is not considered a part of the Israel-Hamas war by the references. Ecrusized ( talk) 13:12, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
â
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Gaza health ministry says 7000 missing not 8000 2001:8003:266B:4D00:81B7:B47B:8752:5B4 ( talk) 10:05, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
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Under belligerents of the war, there should be a "Supported by" the United States of America, with these citations: https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/03/06/us-weapons-israel-gaza/ AND https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/2/20/us-vetoes-another-un-security-council-resolution-urging-gaza-war-ceasefire#:~:text=Majority%20of%20members%20voted%20to,killed%20more%20than%2029%2C000%20people.&text=The%20United%20States%20has%20vetoed,ceasefire%20between%20Israel%20and%20Hamas., similar to the "Supported by" section on the War in Darfur page: /info/en/?search=War_in_Darfur. 74.15.65.150 ( talk) 18:18, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
Why do the casualties for Israel list specific civilian casualties, but all the dead of Palestine are lumped in the same category? It's as if the article is implying there are no Palestinian civilians, only combatants, which is disgusting 2605:A601:AF6C:1700:A915:DB4F:28EA:266A ( talk) 21:24, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
As others here have already pointed out, the math regarding the breakdown of the provided Palestinian fatality figures did not quite add up. Yesterday, the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs revised these figures in their most recent infographic on reliefweb.int. So as of May 8, 2024, there has been a total of 34,844 reported Palestinian fatalities in the Gaza Strip since the war started. A total of 24,686 of these have been confirmed and identified, and of this total: 10,006 are men (40%), 4,959 are women (20%), 7,797 are children (32%), and 1,924 are elderly (8%). This is a significant change from what was previously claimed and needs to be updated in the infobox on this wiki page. This also means that 52% of recorded fatalities have been women and children and not >70% so any mentions of the >70% figure in this article should be deemed no longer factual. I would assume then that women and children make up ~52% of the wounded as well but we cannot be sure. These revised figures are more in line with Israeli estimates as far as I can tell (1 âcombatantâ for every 1.5 âcivilianâ). As of May 2024, Israel says it has killed 15,000 Hamas members in battle (per The Times of Israel). Based on a precedent in previous conflicts, Israel does not distinguish between male civilians and combatants when they release total fatality estimates of their enemy. If about 10,000 of the recorded Palestinian deaths have been adult males and if 40% of the 10,158 bodies yet to be properly identified are adult males, this would give a total of more than 14,000 Palestinian adult male deaths in the war so far. Now obviously, not all Palestinian men who have died are members of Hamas but the figure is very close to what Israel claims and we would assume it would be because they do not distinguish between male civilians and combatants in the numbers they release like I said. Nathan1223 ( talk) 20:52, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
@ Ecrusized: "When there is a large number of participants, it may be better to list only the three or four major groups on each side of the conflict" per Template:Infobox military conflict. As a middle ground solution you can add the PIJ and PFLP outside the collapsible list since they are along with Hamas the three most prominent groups. Makeandtoss ( talk) 12:12, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
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Ocha has updated the number of reported casualties. As of May 8th 2024 the numbers are: Total Palestinians: 34,844 of which 24,686, as of April 30th, are identified as: Men: 10,006 (40%) Women: 4,959 (20%) Children: 7,797 (32%) Elderly: 1,924 (8%)
Source: [1] 213.164.196.30 ( talk) 12:00, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
Not done. Discussion ongoing at main article. Selfstudier ( talk) 12:11, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
References
There's currently a citation error Cite error: The named reference Template:IsraelâHamas war infobox:shinbet If somebody could fix that it would be good. Thanks. NadVolum ( talk) 14:04, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
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14,000 militants. Refs:
galenIgh 23:55, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
1 egyptian soldier is killed so hope to update the template in other theaters. 172.97.229.55 ( talk) 17:08, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
In the casualties and losses breakdown, for the Israel side there is a clear distinction between civilians killed and soldiers killed but for the Palestinian side the innocent civilian death toll and Hamas fighter death toll is clumped together without making it clear the innocent civilian death toll is much much larger than the Hamas fighter death toll. The entire article frames this war as exclusively between Israel and Hamas insinuating that the innocent civilians who were killed were Hamas fighters, which only serves to sympathize with Israel by solely highlighting the innocent civilians killed on that side while ignoring the innocents on the Palestinian side. KareemMAly ( talk) 11:02, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
@ Chong Yi Lam: The inclusion of non-belligerents was deprecated by the community a year ago (see Template_talk:Infobox_military_conflict#RfC_on_"supported_by"_being_used_with_the_belligerent_parameter). If we are to list all arms suppliers, non-belligerents would outnumber belligerents, and the infobox would be bloated (defeating its purpose). Mikrobølgeovn ( talk) 05:08, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
The practice of writing in a "Supported by" subheading is deprecated. Just because there is a article with a infobox that was created before the deprecation and haven't been updated since or added by a unkowing user doesn't mean it can be added to infoboxes anymore.
No one is fixing that infobox, so I don't see a problem listing out the USA and Germany here eithercomes off as editing to make a WP:POINT about another page. If you see a issue then you should fix it in the Tigray War page rather than taking it on other pages.- UtoD 10:17, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
The figure in the info box for detained Palestinians refers to the total number of Palestinians in Israeli civil detention, which does not include the number of people abducted from Gaza during the war itself, who are held in military prison camps rather than the normal Israeli prison system. The figure â 9000+ â has increased dramatically since October, but this is primarily because of Palestinians detained in the West Bank (and probably Israel proper). The number of Gazans detained, as far as I know, is not reported by the IDF. The box should reflect this somehow. 92.12.103.93 ( talk) 16:54, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
The info box currently contains the following language: "37+ deaths caused by malnutrition[30] (likely much higher)[31]." Reference 31 is to a CNN article that is describing conditions of malnutrition, but it doesn't actually say anything about numbers of deaths due to malnutrition.
This seems to violate WP:FORUM and WP:CRYSTALBALL. The "Likely Much Higher" is basically an entirely unsourced prediction.
(unsigned comment above User:2600:4040:297C:8F00:4CEC:C70D:806A:7A3E)
@ User:Genabab, the range doesn't work for Hamas report of IDF dead, because those two numbers of dead IDF soldiers were for different time frames, Änd the higher estimate was (according to the current source cited for it) for just 27 October to the last week of December, whereas the LOWER estimate is the most stats from Hamas for the entire war. It is a bit complicated and hard to summarise concisely, but if you don't want two listings I'll try to put the alternative numbers in a footnote. Normally I'd just delete the older less accurate stats, but they got a lot more media attention than the current numbers Hamas report, that are within 10% of Haaretz. And normally we'd not bother listing that the numbers agree, except that they previously (allegedly) didn't. Allegedly, because the current citation looks like they might have mistranslayed or misinterpreted something. I'm trying to find the original story it quotes from AJ. MWQs ( talk) 12:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
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Template:IsraelâHamas war infobox. (  ¡ history ¡ last ¡ links ¡ transclusion count ¡ protection log) This template must be followed by a complete and specific description of the request, that is, specify what text should be removed and a verbatim copy of the text that should replace it. "Please change X" is not acceptable and will be rejected; the request must be of the form "please change X to Y".
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In note i, the number of Hamas militants killed "per US intelligence" should be changed from the current "9,000-12,000" to "8,000-16,000".
The current numbers misinterpret the reference Reuters article, which reads:
...has been reduced to between 9,000 and 12,000 fighters, according to three senior U.S. officials ... down from American estimates of 20,000-25,000 before the conflict.
Notice it says "reduced TO" and not "reduced BY".
Also, the pre-conflict estimate seems to be a Reuters interpretation, as they link to cia.gov. It's not clear that this is what the quoted seniors implied, and other sources cite higher numbers, such as 30,000.
galenIgh
14:59, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
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Add Raed Saad, Commander of the Gaza Unit of the Al Qassam Brigade as a #4 commander for Hamas and killed today, June 22 Yaron.ben1 ( talk) 11:15, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
Please update the casualties numbers in Syria and Lebanon. The current numbers are (according to the IsraelâHezbollah_conflict page):
470 militants in Lebanon (per Hezbollah, Hamas and PIJ):
389 Hezbollah members (including 2 Saraya personnel)
39 Palestinian militants
20 Amal Movement members
16 Islamic Group members
3 Islamic Azz Brigades fighters
2 Lebanese security forces members
1 Eagles of the Whirlwind fighter
255 militants and soldiers in Syria: (per Syrian Observatory for Human Rights)
108 Iran-backed militiamen
61 Hezbollah fighters
55 Syrian soldiers
26 IRGC soldiers
2 Palestinian Islamic Jihad fighters
3 Unidentified
96 civilians killed in Lebanon
18 civilians killed in Syria Guy Haddad 1 ( talk) 09:34, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
I have never seen war leaders being divided into political, military or internal security categories, so why are we doing this here? Makeandtoss ( talk) 16:08, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
Request:
Reason:
The Lancet article doesn't say that currently 186,000+ Palestinian have been killed, but rather that the indirect deaths could amount to (using conservative estimate) that number. Specifically, the article states that "[a] conservative estimate of four indirect deaths per one direct death ... to estimate that up to 186â000 or even more deaths could be attributable to the current conflict". One paragraph before this, the article explains "[there] will continue to be many indirect deaths in the coming months and years".
Additionally, I don't have permission to open a topic in Talk:IsraelâHamas war, but can someone please edit the main article to reflect this change? Guy Haddad 1 ( talk) 11:08, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
I couldn't figure out how to get the Wikipedia template wizard to work right for the infobox talk but this is an extended-confirmed-protected edit request. I would propose by consensus changing the written attribution for the Lancet contribution to change from "Lancet contribution" to "Khatib, McKee, and Yusuf" or "Khatib et al." or "Advocate Aurora Research Institute and Birzeit University" (the affilitations of the corresponding author). Looking at recent war casualty pages in Wikipedia, casualty estimates are always attributed to the source or authors and not the journal unless editors of the journal are on the paper (e.g. a PLoS bio study). See e.g. /info/en/?search=War_in_Afghanistan_(2001%E2%80%932021), /info/en/?search=Gulf_War, /info/en/?search=Iraq_War. The only exception to this rule I could find was citation of a "Lancet survey" in the Iraq war page, which I would argue is also a mistake but slightly better because published surveys are often pre-approved by the journal and at the very least heavily associated with the journal's name in a way that correspondences are not. Besides the relevance of precedence to changing the attribution, it is also the norm in modern science to cite authors and not journals because publication in a journal is a prerequisite sign of credibility/plausibility, but not representative of the source of a claim or its evidence. The current citation style ends up sounding more like a Twitter feed ("my journal that I can't read says this") and less like an encyclopedic source "Khatib et al from Birzeit university projected" ... [cite lancet correspondence]".
For the same box, the direct casualties from MoH should still be cited (circa 40,000); it is inappropriate to cite only total (direct+indirect) casualty estimates and not direct casualty numbers (see all the Wikipedia pages above which cite Body Count sources which are directly caused deaths), especially when the indirect estimate in Khatib et al. was obtained by multiplying the direct number by 4. Scienceturtle1 ( talk) 17:18, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
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![]() | Warning: active arbitration remedies The contentious topics procedure applies to this page. Parts of this page relate to the ArabâIsraeli conflict, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing the parts of the page related to the contentious topic:
Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. If it is unclear which parts of the page are related to this contentious topic, the content in question should be marked within the wiki text by an invisible comment. If no comment is present, please ask an administrator for assistance. If in doubt it is better to assume that the content is covered. |
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While it is true that PIJ operates outside of Gaza for example, it is also true that Israel is not fighting in Yemen, nor in Iraq. We can roughly avoid mention of these intricacies, as we have already done in relation to Israel not fighting in Yemen or Iraq, by sorting into regions. This would give the reader a rough image of the situation. Makeandtoss ( talk) 19:29, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
Our tax dollars are used to aid the resolution of the conflict. 2601:152:C82:79B0:84F1:F030:4F3B:4F0C ( talk) 08:52, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
Why is there no graph showing the number of bombs dropped by Israel on Palestine, Syria, Lebanon? There exists graph depicting alleged Palestine-origin bombs. 2601:803:201:7B00:B06E:EC14:4477:EDFC ( talk) 22:00, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
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Change * 30,631+ killed [1] To * 30,631+ civilians killed [2] 193.191.179.1 ( talk) 07:45, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
References
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In the casualties section of the infobox, Gaza side, below the first line item, directly in the infobox and not in a popup note, add:
* 6,000 - 13,000 militants killed [a]
The full details of the three sources can be left in a popup note. It's better for NPOV. As suggested above by @ Alaexis on 2/27 (2nd reply). galenIgh 21:19, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
{{
Edit extended-protected}}
template.
M.Bitton (
talk)
02:57, 24 March 2024 (UTC)please establish a consensus for this alteration", but this is currently a problem due to the way two particular editors
Notes
@ RamHez: The citation for Iran is about the 2024 Iranian strikes in Israel. This is a synthesis since the attack is not considered a part of the Israel-Hamas war by the references. Ecrusized ( talk) 13:12, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
â
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Gaza health ministry says 7000 missing not 8000 2001:8003:266B:4D00:81B7:B47B:8752:5B4 ( talk) 10:05, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
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Under belligerents of the war, there should be a "Supported by" the United States of America, with these citations: https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/03/06/us-weapons-israel-gaza/ AND https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/2/20/us-vetoes-another-un-security-council-resolution-urging-gaza-war-ceasefire#:~:text=Majority%20of%20members%20voted%20to,killed%20more%20than%2029%2C000%20people.&text=The%20United%20States%20has%20vetoed,ceasefire%20between%20Israel%20and%20Hamas., similar to the "Supported by" section on the War in Darfur page: /info/en/?search=War_in_Darfur. 74.15.65.150 ( talk) 18:18, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
Why do the casualties for Israel list specific civilian casualties, but all the dead of Palestine are lumped in the same category? It's as if the article is implying there are no Palestinian civilians, only combatants, which is disgusting 2605:A601:AF6C:1700:A915:DB4F:28EA:266A ( talk) 21:24, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
As others here have already pointed out, the math regarding the breakdown of the provided Palestinian fatality figures did not quite add up. Yesterday, the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs revised these figures in their most recent infographic on reliefweb.int. So as of May 8, 2024, there has been a total of 34,844 reported Palestinian fatalities in the Gaza Strip since the war started. A total of 24,686 of these have been confirmed and identified, and of this total: 10,006 are men (40%), 4,959 are women (20%), 7,797 are children (32%), and 1,924 are elderly (8%). This is a significant change from what was previously claimed and needs to be updated in the infobox on this wiki page. This also means that 52% of recorded fatalities have been women and children and not >70% so any mentions of the >70% figure in this article should be deemed no longer factual. I would assume then that women and children make up ~52% of the wounded as well but we cannot be sure. These revised figures are more in line with Israeli estimates as far as I can tell (1 âcombatantâ for every 1.5 âcivilianâ). As of May 2024, Israel says it has killed 15,000 Hamas members in battle (per The Times of Israel). Based on a precedent in previous conflicts, Israel does not distinguish between male civilians and combatants when they release total fatality estimates of their enemy. If about 10,000 of the recorded Palestinian deaths have been adult males and if 40% of the 10,158 bodies yet to be properly identified are adult males, this would give a total of more than 14,000 Palestinian adult male deaths in the war so far. Now obviously, not all Palestinian men who have died are members of Hamas but the figure is very close to what Israel claims and we would assume it would be because they do not distinguish between male civilians and combatants in the numbers they release like I said. Nathan1223 ( talk) 20:52, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
@ Ecrusized: "When there is a large number of participants, it may be better to list only the three or four major groups on each side of the conflict" per Template:Infobox military conflict. As a middle ground solution you can add the PIJ and PFLP outside the collapsible list since they are along with Hamas the three most prominent groups. Makeandtoss ( talk) 12:12, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
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edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Ocha has updated the number of reported casualties. As of May 8th 2024 the numbers are: Total Palestinians: 34,844 of which 24,686, as of April 30th, are identified as: Men: 10,006 (40%) Women: 4,959 (20%) Children: 7,797 (32%) Elderly: 1,924 (8%)
Source: [1] 213.164.196.30 ( talk) 12:00, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
Not done. Discussion ongoing at main article. Selfstudier ( talk) 12:11, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
References
There's currently a citation error Cite error: The named reference Template:IsraelâHamas war infobox:shinbet If somebody could fix that it would be good. Thanks. NadVolum ( talk) 14:04, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
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edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
14,000 militants. Refs:
galenIgh 23:55, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
1 egyptian soldier is killed so hope to update the template in other theaters. 172.97.229.55 ( talk) 17:08, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
In the casualties and losses breakdown, for the Israel side there is a clear distinction between civilians killed and soldiers killed but for the Palestinian side the innocent civilian death toll and Hamas fighter death toll is clumped together without making it clear the innocent civilian death toll is much much larger than the Hamas fighter death toll. The entire article frames this war as exclusively between Israel and Hamas insinuating that the innocent civilians who were killed were Hamas fighters, which only serves to sympathize with Israel by solely highlighting the innocent civilians killed on that side while ignoring the innocents on the Palestinian side. KareemMAly ( talk) 11:02, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
@ Chong Yi Lam: The inclusion of non-belligerents was deprecated by the community a year ago (see Template_talk:Infobox_military_conflict#RfC_on_"supported_by"_being_used_with_the_belligerent_parameter). If we are to list all arms suppliers, non-belligerents would outnumber belligerents, and the infobox would be bloated (defeating its purpose). Mikrobølgeovn ( talk) 05:08, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
The practice of writing in a "Supported by" subheading is deprecated. Just because there is a article with a infobox that was created before the deprecation and haven't been updated since or added by a unkowing user doesn't mean it can be added to infoboxes anymore.
No one is fixing that infobox, so I don't see a problem listing out the USA and Germany here eithercomes off as editing to make a WP:POINT about another page. If you see a issue then you should fix it in the Tigray War page rather than taking it on other pages.- UtoD 10:17, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
The figure in the info box for detained Palestinians refers to the total number of Palestinians in Israeli civil detention, which does not include the number of people abducted from Gaza during the war itself, who are held in military prison camps rather than the normal Israeli prison system. The figure â 9000+ â has increased dramatically since October, but this is primarily because of Palestinians detained in the West Bank (and probably Israel proper). The number of Gazans detained, as far as I know, is not reported by the IDF. The box should reflect this somehow. 92.12.103.93 ( talk) 16:54, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
The info box currently contains the following language: "37+ deaths caused by malnutrition[30] (likely much higher)[31]." Reference 31 is to a CNN article that is describing conditions of malnutrition, but it doesn't actually say anything about numbers of deaths due to malnutrition.
This seems to violate WP:FORUM and WP:CRYSTALBALL. The "Likely Much Higher" is basically an entirely unsourced prediction.
(unsigned comment above User:2600:4040:297C:8F00:4CEC:C70D:806A:7A3E)
@ User:Genabab, the range doesn't work for Hamas report of IDF dead, because those two numbers of dead IDF soldiers were for different time frames, Änd the higher estimate was (according to the current source cited for it) for just 27 October to the last week of December, whereas the LOWER estimate is the most stats from Hamas for the entire war. It is a bit complicated and hard to summarise concisely, but if you don't want two listings I'll try to put the alternative numbers in a footnote. Normally I'd just delete the older less accurate stats, but they got a lot more media attention than the current numbers Hamas report, that are within 10% of Haaretz. And normally we'd not bother listing that the numbers agree, except that they previously (allegedly) didn't. Allegedly, because the current citation looks like they might have mistranslayed or misinterpreted something. I'm trying to find the original story it quotes from AJ. MWQs ( talk) 12:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
![]() | It is
requested that an edit be made to the
extended-confirmed-protected template at
Template:IsraelâHamas war infobox. (  ¡ history ¡ last ¡ links ¡ transclusion count ¡ protection log) This template must be followed by a complete and specific description of the request, that is, specify what text should be removed and a verbatim copy of the text that should replace it. "Please change X" is not acceptable and will be rejected; the request must be of the form "please change X to Y".
The edit may be made by any
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In note i, the number of Hamas militants killed "per US intelligence" should be changed from the current "9,000-12,000" to "8,000-16,000".
The current numbers misinterpret the reference Reuters article, which reads:
...has been reduced to between 9,000 and 12,000 fighters, according to three senior U.S. officials ... down from American estimates of 20,000-25,000 before the conflict.
Notice it says "reduced TO" and not "reduced BY".
Also, the pre-conflict estimate seems to be a Reuters interpretation, as they link to cia.gov. It's not clear that this is what the quoted seniors implied, and other sources cite higher numbers, such as 30,000.
galenIgh
14:59, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
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requested that an edit be made to the
extended-confirmed-protected template at
Template:IsraelâHamas war infobox. (  ¡ history ¡ last ¡ links ¡ transclusion count ¡ protection log) This template must be followed by a complete and specific description of the request, that is, specify what text should be removed and a verbatim copy of the text that should replace it. "Please change X" is not acceptable and will be rejected; the request must be of the form "please change X to Y".
The edit may be made by any
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Add Raed Saad, Commander of the Gaza Unit of the Al Qassam Brigade as a #4 commander for Hamas and killed today, June 22 Yaron.ben1 ( talk) 11:15, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
Please update the casualties numbers in Syria and Lebanon. The current numbers are (according to the IsraelâHezbollah_conflict page):
470 militants in Lebanon (per Hezbollah, Hamas and PIJ):
389 Hezbollah members (including 2 Saraya personnel)
39 Palestinian militants
20 Amal Movement members
16 Islamic Group members
3 Islamic Azz Brigades fighters
2 Lebanese security forces members
1 Eagles of the Whirlwind fighter
255 militants and soldiers in Syria: (per Syrian Observatory for Human Rights)
108 Iran-backed militiamen
61 Hezbollah fighters
55 Syrian soldiers
26 IRGC soldiers
2 Palestinian Islamic Jihad fighters
3 Unidentified
96 civilians killed in Lebanon
18 civilians killed in Syria Guy Haddad 1 ( talk) 09:34, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
I have never seen war leaders being divided into political, military or internal security categories, so why are we doing this here? Makeandtoss ( talk) 16:08, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
Request:
Reason:
The Lancet article doesn't say that currently 186,000+ Palestinian have been killed, but rather that the indirect deaths could amount to (using conservative estimate) that number. Specifically, the article states that "[a] conservative estimate of four indirect deaths per one direct death ... to estimate that up to 186â000 or even more deaths could be attributable to the current conflict". One paragraph before this, the article explains "[there] will continue to be many indirect deaths in the coming months and years".
Additionally, I don't have permission to open a topic in Talk:IsraelâHamas war, but can someone please edit the main article to reflect this change? Guy Haddad 1 ( talk) 11:08, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
I couldn't figure out how to get the Wikipedia template wizard to work right for the infobox talk but this is an extended-confirmed-protected edit request. I would propose by consensus changing the written attribution for the Lancet contribution to change from "Lancet contribution" to "Khatib, McKee, and Yusuf" or "Khatib et al." or "Advocate Aurora Research Institute and Birzeit University" (the affilitations of the corresponding author). Looking at recent war casualty pages in Wikipedia, casualty estimates are always attributed to the source or authors and not the journal unless editors of the journal are on the paper (e.g. a PLoS bio study). See e.g. /info/en/?search=War_in_Afghanistan_(2001%E2%80%932021), /info/en/?search=Gulf_War, /info/en/?search=Iraq_War. The only exception to this rule I could find was citation of a "Lancet survey" in the Iraq war page, which I would argue is also a mistake but slightly better because published surveys are often pre-approved by the journal and at the very least heavily associated with the journal's name in a way that correspondences are not. Besides the relevance of precedence to changing the attribution, it is also the norm in modern science to cite authors and not journals because publication in a journal is a prerequisite sign of credibility/plausibility, but not representative of the source of a claim or its evidence. The current citation style ends up sounding more like a Twitter feed ("my journal that I can't read says this") and less like an encyclopedic source "Khatib et al from Birzeit university projected" ... [cite lancet correspondence]".
For the same box, the direct casualties from MoH should still be cited (circa 40,000); it is inappropriate to cite only total (direct+indirect) casualty estimates and not direct casualty numbers (see all the Wikipedia pages above which cite Body Count sources which are directly caused deaths), especially when the indirect estimate in Khatib et al. was obtained by multiplying the direct number by 4. Scienceturtle1 ( talk) 17:18, 10 July 2024 (UTC)