The result was: promoted by
Mentoz86 (
talk) 10:09, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
Created/expanded by SJ Morg ( talk). Self nom at 11:52, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
For anyone who's just joining us, bear in mind two different topics are being discussed here. First, regarding the titles of the articles (i.e. at their own pages): Actually, if you peruse
Category:City and town halls in the United States you will find many examples of either title format, and placing the city name first appears to be much more common – but the point here is that either format seems widely accepted at Wikipedia. I'm not inclined to move either article, because the old city hall is listed on the National Register of Historic Places as simply "Astoria City Hall" (not even including "old", but the State of Oregon adds "(Old)" in its list of NRHP properties, to avoid confusion, and WP needs to do so for the same reason), and as far as I can determine the "new" city hall is hardly ever referred to as "new", because it has served as city hall since 1939 and now more than twice as long as its predecessor did. Maybe the article about the "new" (and current) city hall should be moved to just "Astoria City Hall", with the disambiguation page with that title then deleted and letting the hat notes suffice (I have no objection to that; any thoughts?).
Second, regarding the DYK hook wordings: Although I've had 24 DYKs before these two, almost none required any significant piping of the DYK-qualifying articles in the hooks, so it's not something I've had much reason to think about until now, and my inexperience on that point may be confusing things a bit. I can't imagine anyone would want a hook that uses both of these articles' titles verbatim –
Astoria City Hall (old) and
Astoria City Hall (new) – because of awkwardness and excessive repetition, with "Astoria" even appearing three times in the same hook. However, I can think of numerous alternative wordings and pipings even if the articles themselves keep their titles and even if the overall hook content remains the same as in ALT1. First, I should mention that, since "Old" and "New" are not part of the formal names (not even at the NRHP), I am now supposing I shouldn't have capitalized those words. And the same for "city hall" when the phrasing uses it as a description rather than as the name of a building. If you have any thoughts on this point, I welcome them.
And now, several more ALT hooks, all having the same overall content of your ALT1 but with variations in the piping, linking and capitalization:
In some or all of the above, I might have suggested "former city hall" instead of "old city hall" if not for the fact that "former" is in the preceding phrase.
At the risk of opening up another can of worms, I feel I should point out that the old city hall didn't become the Maritime Museum until 24 years after it ceased being city hall (something I hinted at by the inclusion of "later" in the original hook), but the Maritime Museum was the most interesting of the building's post-city hall uses and the only one with its own article at WP, and that's why I chose it for the hook. If anyone feels that these hooks' use of "after" strongly implies "immediately after" or "shortly after" (neither of which is correct here), then a longer (but still under the max. length) hook might be as follows (or omitting "repurposed as"):
Other variations that combine parts of these alts are also possible. SJ Morg ( talk) 19:51, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
The result was: promoted by
Mentoz86 (
talk) 10:09, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
Created/expanded by SJ Morg ( talk). Self nom at 11:52, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
For anyone who's just joining us, bear in mind two different topics are being discussed here. First, regarding the titles of the articles (i.e. at their own pages): Actually, if you peruse
Category:City and town halls in the United States you will find many examples of either title format, and placing the city name first appears to be much more common – but the point here is that either format seems widely accepted at Wikipedia. I'm not inclined to move either article, because the old city hall is listed on the National Register of Historic Places as simply "Astoria City Hall" (not even including "old", but the State of Oregon adds "(Old)" in its list of NRHP properties, to avoid confusion, and WP needs to do so for the same reason), and as far as I can determine the "new" city hall is hardly ever referred to as "new", because it has served as city hall since 1939 and now more than twice as long as its predecessor did. Maybe the article about the "new" (and current) city hall should be moved to just "Astoria City Hall", with the disambiguation page with that title then deleted and letting the hat notes suffice (I have no objection to that; any thoughts?).
Second, regarding the DYK hook wordings: Although I've had 24 DYKs before these two, almost none required any significant piping of the DYK-qualifying articles in the hooks, so it's not something I've had much reason to think about until now, and my inexperience on that point may be confusing things a bit. I can't imagine anyone would want a hook that uses both of these articles' titles verbatim –
Astoria City Hall (old) and
Astoria City Hall (new) – because of awkwardness and excessive repetition, with "Astoria" even appearing three times in the same hook. However, I can think of numerous alternative wordings and pipings even if the articles themselves keep their titles and even if the overall hook content remains the same as in ALT1. First, I should mention that, since "Old" and "New" are not part of the formal names (not even at the NRHP), I am now supposing I shouldn't have capitalized those words. And the same for "city hall" when the phrasing uses it as a description rather than as the name of a building. If you have any thoughts on this point, I welcome them.
And now, several more ALT hooks, all having the same overall content of your ALT1 but with variations in the piping, linking and capitalization:
In some or all of the above, I might have suggested "former city hall" instead of "old city hall" if not for the fact that "former" is in the preceding phrase.
At the risk of opening up another can of worms, I feel I should point out that the old city hall didn't become the Maritime Museum until 24 years after it ceased being city hall (something I hinted at by the inclusion of "later" in the original hook), but the Maritime Museum was the most interesting of the building's post-city hall uses and the only one with its own article at WP, and that's why I chose it for the hook. If anyone feels that these hooks' use of "after" strongly implies "immediately after" or "shortly after" (neither of which is correct here), then a longer (but still under the max. length) hook might be as follows (or omitting "repurposed as"):
Other variations that combine parts of these alts are also possible. SJ Morg ( talk) 19:51, 2 August 2012 (UTC)