This
level-5 vital article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The word 'his' is useful in the list 'Inge's Come Back, Little Sheba, his Bus Stop, and The Dark at the Top of the Stairs.' Without it, it is difficult for the casual reader, who may not be familiar with Inge's works, to tell whether 'Come Back, Little Sheba, Bus Stop,' refers to two plays, or three.
Therefore I am reverting to include it. Tex
I found out the Really Correct way to separate items in a list like this, and I am changing the article to implement it. Tex 14:16, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
The proper grammar here is really quite simple: Each title is underlined, or put in quotations, (which is the way a title must be written in any case. The commas are inserted between them, viz: "Come Back, Little Sheba," "Bus Stop," and "The Dark at the Top of the Stairs." 66.108.4.183 23:26, 20 May 2006 (UTC) Allen Roth (with thanks for a good private school education).
Yes, the use of underlining, never quotation marks, for the title of a book or play was taught back before italics were readily available to the student. In those days it was necessary to have material professionally typeset to use italics for a title. So students were taught to use underlining as a substitute. Now, of course, the real thing is widely available.
The use of quotation marks for titles was, and still is, for shorter published works like poems, short stories, song titles and even episodes of TV shows.
My reference to the use of semicolons in a complex list of items which themselves contain commas came from Simon & Schuster Handbook for Writers, mysteriously published by Prentice-Hall in 1990. See part 25b. Given the apparent interest, I decided to check my old public junior high school grammar book, whose title I can't cite because the cover fell off long ago. Sure enough, it mentions this use of the semicolon as well. So it is as Tony Randall said, if you only learned everything you were supposed to know in high school, people would think you were very well educated. I think Tony went to public schools, though.
Other things they teach in public schools are that viz. means "namely" and not "for example", and that parentheses are used in pairs. I am certain that Inge would have known these facts, since he had a Kansas public school education. He probably wouldn't have been acquainted with the facts of evolution, though. Tex 14:20, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
While underscore is preferred for titles of longer works, the use of quotation marks is acceptable for any title at all. Italics are acceptable as well, but are in no way preferred to either quotation marks or underlining. Semicolons are never permissible in separating a list of items, even when there may be confusion engendered when some of those items have commas in them; semicolons are only to be used in separating complete sentences from each other. And, yes, one can obtain a good education in a public school; I never implied otherwise, but merely expressed affection for my school obliquely. In any event, grammar alone cannot save this mediocre article. I noticed a discussion of grammar on this Talk page, and corrected some mistakes. 66.108.4.183 06:57, 26 May 2006 (UTC) Allen Roth
I'm not the kind of person who will carry this sophistry on ad infinitum, so this will be my last comment; I don't feel that I have to have the last word. The above examples are punctuated incorrectly. In any list of items, they are separated by commas, even if some of the items on the list have commas between their words. If an ambiguity is created thereby (as in the list of Inge's plays in this article), it is dealt with accordingly (such as separating the items by quotation marks, when appropriate, or adding an appropriate word of explanation). The purpose of a semicolon is to separate two independent sentences which one wants to juxtapose because of their relation to each other, rather than simply writing them sequentially: e.g. "One can obtain a good education in a public school; I never implied otherwise." It is used to indicate a logical relation between two statements and, for stylistic reasons, to create a rhythm between them. Consequently, any phrase on either side of a semicolon must be a complete sentence, and gramatically correct. Style guides are not dispositive; there are as many style and grammar guides as there are people who write them. The MLA Style Manual was the one I studied, but one's own intuition and judgment should control. If you think about it logically, you will see that I am correct. The semicolon was invented for a reason, and that reason was not to clarify ambiguities in a list of items, by replacing a comma. That would not always work: Consider a list of plays with one play "Vengeance is Mine; I Shall Repay." Of what use would the semicolon be in such an instance? It would only lead to more confusion. Its purpose is primarily stylistic, for the reasons outlined above. This is the first time I have ever been involved in so pedantic a discussion in Wikipedia; I typically sigh when I come across an endless debate on a Talk Page (although I have frequently learned more about the topic than in the article itself), which this will clearly become if I reply again. My graduate degrees are in History of Physics and in Law, so I am acutely sensitive to issues of clarity and analysis. I enjoy Wikipedia as a resource, and I've contributed to articles such as Bloodhound, History of the Jews in Hungary and Vladimir Horowitz. And I must admit that I don't pay very close attention to my grammar when contributing, relying on habit. Poor Mister Inge! Little did I know in what bog I would descend when I accessed his Talk Page for more information. But I will tread very carefully here from now on in matters of style rather than of substance, as differences of opinion here are not capable of resolution, and quickly degenerate into sophistry, ad hominem attacks, etc. Consult other style guides, consider the reasoning behind the style book's rule and use your own judgment. 66.108.4.183 07:35, 27 May 2006 (UTC) Allen Roth P.S.: I would rewrite the sentence cited as follows: "The three most populous cities in the U.S. are New York, New York, Los Angeles, California and Chicago, Illinois." There is no comma between the penultimate member of a list and the last member. And I apologize to all for my sometimes arrogant style. I suffer from impatience occasionally.
Very good rewrite from Pepso! The additional information is to the point and well-written.
Tex 20:19, 31 May 2006 (UTC)\
Copied by (John User:Jwy talk) 23:34, 25 April 2007 (UTC) from its misplaced location in the article:
In ACT II, the famous sensuous dance scene is written to have the music tunes coming from Ernie Higgins,a neighbor, who is rehearsing for the Labor Day dance. Though the movie version has its well known "Moonglow", "there is no official documentation" of Ernie's tunes according to IBTDB site. Surely, somebody who saw the original show might remember the tunes, especially a Broadway theater buff. What were the tunes that Ernie played in the original stage "Picnic" of 1953? 74.230.49.183 18:37, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
According to Wikipedia fair use policy, images of the covers of books can only be used "to illustrate an article discussing the book in question". Perhaps it might also be used in an article about the author of the book. But I don't think the use is a fair one on this article. GlassFET 15:09, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
Those interested in Inge may wish to see the 1962 film All Fall Down, directed by John Frankenheimer and written by Inge from a novel by another. It still involves many themes characteristic of Inge, from single schoolteachers and repressed sexuality, to having a reference to someone named Willadean. It's upsetting that alcoholism and suicide by carbon monoxide poisoning are mentioned as well. One has to wonder whether he was already contemplating his own end ten years later.
The cast does well, Brandon de Wilde running away with the movie, but Eva Marie Saint, Warren Beatty, Karl Malden and Angela Lansbury turn in good performances as well. I didn't know this film was written by Inge; I only saw it because of my interest in Frankenheimer. I would like to read the novel and see how much rework was involved. My guess is that Inge changed quite a bit.
Tex 02:58, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
This paragraph (in Career) seems too much a summary of the play's plot. I think either that should be a separate article or should be way shorter. (Also needs citations). Henry chianski ( talk) 19:08, 15 September 2016 (UTC)
My understanding is that Inge committed suicide after Atlantic−Little, Brown rejected his third novel. The statement about his suicide, which is not documented, linked his demise to depression over his current plays not being given positive notices. This disparity should be addressed and documented before the flagged content warning is removed. Did Inge leave a suicide note? Even if he did, do scholars believe it was his alcoholism, loneliness, waning ability as a writer, a failed relationship or affection, conflict over something besides his publisher, or a combination of these (or other) factors that led to his death? Hifrommike65 ( talk) 02:23, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on William Inge. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 14:07, 9 December 2017 (UTC)
This
level-5 vital article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The word 'his' is useful in the list 'Inge's Come Back, Little Sheba, his Bus Stop, and The Dark at the Top of the Stairs.' Without it, it is difficult for the casual reader, who may not be familiar with Inge's works, to tell whether 'Come Back, Little Sheba, Bus Stop,' refers to two plays, or three.
Therefore I am reverting to include it. Tex
I found out the Really Correct way to separate items in a list like this, and I am changing the article to implement it. Tex 14:16, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
The proper grammar here is really quite simple: Each title is underlined, or put in quotations, (which is the way a title must be written in any case. The commas are inserted between them, viz: "Come Back, Little Sheba," "Bus Stop," and "The Dark at the Top of the Stairs." 66.108.4.183 23:26, 20 May 2006 (UTC) Allen Roth (with thanks for a good private school education).
Yes, the use of underlining, never quotation marks, for the title of a book or play was taught back before italics were readily available to the student. In those days it was necessary to have material professionally typeset to use italics for a title. So students were taught to use underlining as a substitute. Now, of course, the real thing is widely available.
The use of quotation marks for titles was, and still is, for shorter published works like poems, short stories, song titles and even episodes of TV shows.
My reference to the use of semicolons in a complex list of items which themselves contain commas came from Simon & Schuster Handbook for Writers, mysteriously published by Prentice-Hall in 1990. See part 25b. Given the apparent interest, I decided to check my old public junior high school grammar book, whose title I can't cite because the cover fell off long ago. Sure enough, it mentions this use of the semicolon as well. So it is as Tony Randall said, if you only learned everything you were supposed to know in high school, people would think you were very well educated. I think Tony went to public schools, though.
Other things they teach in public schools are that viz. means "namely" and not "for example", and that parentheses are used in pairs. I am certain that Inge would have known these facts, since he had a Kansas public school education. He probably wouldn't have been acquainted with the facts of evolution, though. Tex 14:20, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
While underscore is preferred for titles of longer works, the use of quotation marks is acceptable for any title at all. Italics are acceptable as well, but are in no way preferred to either quotation marks or underlining. Semicolons are never permissible in separating a list of items, even when there may be confusion engendered when some of those items have commas in them; semicolons are only to be used in separating complete sentences from each other. And, yes, one can obtain a good education in a public school; I never implied otherwise, but merely expressed affection for my school obliquely. In any event, grammar alone cannot save this mediocre article. I noticed a discussion of grammar on this Talk page, and corrected some mistakes. 66.108.4.183 06:57, 26 May 2006 (UTC) Allen Roth
I'm not the kind of person who will carry this sophistry on ad infinitum, so this will be my last comment; I don't feel that I have to have the last word. The above examples are punctuated incorrectly. In any list of items, they are separated by commas, even if some of the items on the list have commas between their words. If an ambiguity is created thereby (as in the list of Inge's plays in this article), it is dealt with accordingly (such as separating the items by quotation marks, when appropriate, or adding an appropriate word of explanation). The purpose of a semicolon is to separate two independent sentences which one wants to juxtapose because of their relation to each other, rather than simply writing them sequentially: e.g. "One can obtain a good education in a public school; I never implied otherwise." It is used to indicate a logical relation between two statements and, for stylistic reasons, to create a rhythm between them. Consequently, any phrase on either side of a semicolon must be a complete sentence, and gramatically correct. Style guides are not dispositive; there are as many style and grammar guides as there are people who write them. The MLA Style Manual was the one I studied, but one's own intuition and judgment should control. If you think about it logically, you will see that I am correct. The semicolon was invented for a reason, and that reason was not to clarify ambiguities in a list of items, by replacing a comma. That would not always work: Consider a list of plays with one play "Vengeance is Mine; I Shall Repay." Of what use would the semicolon be in such an instance? It would only lead to more confusion. Its purpose is primarily stylistic, for the reasons outlined above. This is the first time I have ever been involved in so pedantic a discussion in Wikipedia; I typically sigh when I come across an endless debate on a Talk Page (although I have frequently learned more about the topic than in the article itself), which this will clearly become if I reply again. My graduate degrees are in History of Physics and in Law, so I am acutely sensitive to issues of clarity and analysis. I enjoy Wikipedia as a resource, and I've contributed to articles such as Bloodhound, History of the Jews in Hungary and Vladimir Horowitz. And I must admit that I don't pay very close attention to my grammar when contributing, relying on habit. Poor Mister Inge! Little did I know in what bog I would descend when I accessed his Talk Page for more information. But I will tread very carefully here from now on in matters of style rather than of substance, as differences of opinion here are not capable of resolution, and quickly degenerate into sophistry, ad hominem attacks, etc. Consult other style guides, consider the reasoning behind the style book's rule and use your own judgment. 66.108.4.183 07:35, 27 May 2006 (UTC) Allen Roth P.S.: I would rewrite the sentence cited as follows: "The three most populous cities in the U.S. are New York, New York, Los Angeles, California and Chicago, Illinois." There is no comma between the penultimate member of a list and the last member. And I apologize to all for my sometimes arrogant style. I suffer from impatience occasionally.
Very good rewrite from Pepso! The additional information is to the point and well-written.
Tex 20:19, 31 May 2006 (UTC)\
Copied by (John User:Jwy talk) 23:34, 25 April 2007 (UTC) from its misplaced location in the article:
In ACT II, the famous sensuous dance scene is written to have the music tunes coming from Ernie Higgins,a neighbor, who is rehearsing for the Labor Day dance. Though the movie version has its well known "Moonglow", "there is no official documentation" of Ernie's tunes according to IBTDB site. Surely, somebody who saw the original show might remember the tunes, especially a Broadway theater buff. What were the tunes that Ernie played in the original stage "Picnic" of 1953? 74.230.49.183 18:37, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
According to Wikipedia fair use policy, images of the covers of books can only be used "to illustrate an article discussing the book in question". Perhaps it might also be used in an article about the author of the book. But I don't think the use is a fair one on this article. GlassFET 15:09, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
Those interested in Inge may wish to see the 1962 film All Fall Down, directed by John Frankenheimer and written by Inge from a novel by another. It still involves many themes characteristic of Inge, from single schoolteachers and repressed sexuality, to having a reference to someone named Willadean. It's upsetting that alcoholism and suicide by carbon monoxide poisoning are mentioned as well. One has to wonder whether he was already contemplating his own end ten years later.
The cast does well, Brandon de Wilde running away with the movie, but Eva Marie Saint, Warren Beatty, Karl Malden and Angela Lansbury turn in good performances as well. I didn't know this film was written by Inge; I only saw it because of my interest in Frankenheimer. I would like to read the novel and see how much rework was involved. My guess is that Inge changed quite a bit.
Tex 02:58, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
This paragraph (in Career) seems too much a summary of the play's plot. I think either that should be a separate article or should be way shorter. (Also needs citations). Henry chianski ( talk) 19:08, 15 September 2016 (UTC)
My understanding is that Inge committed suicide after Atlantic−Little, Brown rejected his third novel. The statement about his suicide, which is not documented, linked his demise to depression over his current plays not being given positive notices. This disparity should be addressed and documented before the flagged content warning is removed. Did Inge leave a suicide note? Even if he did, do scholars believe it was his alcoholism, loneliness, waning ability as a writer, a failed relationship or affection, conflict over something besides his publisher, or a combination of these (or other) factors that led to his death? Hifrommike65 ( talk) 02:23, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on William Inge. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 14:07, 9 December 2017 (UTC)