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As a former resident of this area, that was actually a citizen of the city of Minnetonka, I cannot stress enough how confusing it was to get cabs or packages. People would automatically start at Wayzata, and not understand we were on the other side of the lake other side of the causeway etc. I modeled this page on a similar phenom that occurs in Beverly Hills, CA. The area code is larger than the city of Beverly Hills.
In Wayzata's case, the real power and money, is outside its city limits, but within the area code.
-- K3vin ( talk) 00:27, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
Why was this article redirected? The edit summery says "we cover ZIP codes in the city articles" but there's nothing in the Wayzata, Minnesota article about ZIP codes or Wayzata Post Office, and the redirect it misleading. It makes it look like Wayzata Post Office and Wayzata are the same thing, even tough (according to the target's hatnote) Wayzata Post Office is a "much larger area". then Wayzata. Emmette Hernandez Coleman ( talk) 02:37, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
- This is no different from any other post office in the USA; ZIP codes pretty much always cover extensive areas outside municipal boundaries. Look at the
map for my ZIP code — it's
Bloomington, but the large majority is unincorporated (the area that's incorporated is smaller than the area of
Lake Monroe), including where I live, ten miles from the post office. The ZIP code is covered in the article's infobox, just like all other cities' ZIP codes. This is nothing but an article on the ZIP code for an average city, and we generally don't do articles for famous ZIP codes; even
90210 has nothing about the ZIP code except a link to the city where it's located. I would have merged material into the city article if there were anything acceptable, but the page had nothing with sources; nothing should have been moved to the city article.
Nyttend (
talk) 18:02, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
- The article implies that it isn't an ordinary Zip code, but a notable unincorporated community whose boundaries are defined by a (presumably otherwise ordinary) Zip code. If this "Wayzata Post Office" is a notable unincorporated community, then it's a notable unincorporated community; that it's boundaries are defined by a Zip code is irreverent to this discussion. The redirect is misleading, it would be better to delete this then to redirect it.
Emmette Hernandez Coleman (
talk) 05:27, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
- I'm restoring the article sense the redirect is misleading, and I don't think that boundaries being defined by a Zip code is a valid reason to get rid of the article. That said I have no problem with this being brought to AFD; if this is not notable as an unincorporated community, then it should be deleted or merged.
- The article implies that it isn't an ordinary Zip code, but a notable unincorporated community whose boundaries are defined by a (presumably otherwise ordinary) Zip code. If this "Wayzata Post Office" is a notable unincorporated community, then it's a notable unincorporated community; that it's boundaries are defined by a Zip code is irreverent to this discussion. The redirect is misleading, it would be better to delete this then to redirect it.
Emmette Hernandez Coleman (
talk) 05:27, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
- I don't see why being unreferenced should prevent this from being merged tough. I don't realty object to deletion, but the requirement is verifiability, not verified. If someone believes, or believes it likely, that something in this article is inaccurate, he can challenge it, and then it would be necessary to either provide a source or remove the info. Unless that happens, or unless there is some reason to believe that this article is very inaccurate, I don't see why it shouldn't be merged simply for being unreferenced. We have verifiable, but unreferenced material all over the encyclopedia.
Emmette Hernandez Coleman (
talk) 18:28, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
- Thats a train wreck of logic. In short, you would rather have no refd data all over and thus, make it worthless??? How about some GNIS data on the PO??? ANYTHING. It must be true, I read it on the internet at Wikipedia. WOW
Coal town guy (
talk) 18:38, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
- If I understand you correctly, no. Verifiable, but unreferenced, is certainly not an ideal situation, but is is an acceptable situation. We don't delete (or otherwise get rid of) articles simply for being unreferenced. Emmette Hernandez Coleman ( talk) 18:51, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
- Thats a train wreck of logic. In short, you would rather have no refd data all over and thus, make it worthless??? How about some GNIS data on the PO??? ANYTHING. It must be true, I read it on the internet at Wikipedia. WOW
Coal town guy (
talk) 18:38, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
- Yes we do, unrefd data when challenged can and will be removed, thats why we have a ref challenge flag. Find the sources, and ref them, great, otherwise, its a waste of resources, ref it, or it will go away, its a fact, see WP:MOS Coal town guy ( talk) 18:53, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
- I don't see why being unreferenced should prevent this from being merged tough. I don't realty object to deletion, but the requirement is verifiability, not verified. If someone believes, or believes it likely, that something in this article is inaccurate, he can challenge it, and then it would be necessary to either provide a source or remove the info. Unless that happens, or unless there is some reason to believe that this article is very inaccurate, I don't see why it shouldn't be merged simply for being unreferenced. We have verifiable, but unreferenced material all over the encyclopedia.
Emmette Hernandez Coleman (
talk) 18:28, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
- Unrefd data is not the same thing as challenged data. That said it looks like you challenge weather community/section exists. The reason I reverted that edit was that this article has allways been about the community/section. The section may be named "Wayzata Post Office", but that doesn't make it the same thing as the post office itself (e.g. Beverly Hills Post Office). I seriously doubt that the post office itself is notable, and even if it is it probably isn't notable for ZIP code. If the post office itself is notable, we can make an article (or article section) for it, but this is not that article (see United States Post Office (Merced, California) for an example of a post office article). That said, feel free to nominate this article at AFD. Emmette Hernandez Coleman ( talk) 19:41, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
- I did a Google search for "Wayzata Post Office", but all I could find results related to the post office itself. Maybe the results for the community are just really well berried, but if so that's a strong sign that isn't notable. I'll invite the creator here in case he has a source. Emmette Hernandez Coleman ( talk) 20:17, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
You have ref citations that are pulling from the city and not the PO, they are not defined hence the error. I will tage this as a merge later, its a wreck and in fact, incorrect data wise Coal town guy ( talk) 18:47, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
- The only ref there is the one to usps.com. If you're refering to this edit, I imported the infobox verbatim from Wayzata, Minnesota, then adapted it for this article in the next edit. It makes the attribution easier. Emmette Hernandez Coleman ( talk) 19:51, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
SUPPORT MERGE No ref, no data, the main editor wants it to be an unincorporated community, the onus is on the editor. I found a ref for the po, its NOT notable in any way other than the fact its a post office of a city. UNLESS, ANYONE can show the glory and notability of this needs to be merged. Coal town guy ( talk) 20:42, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
- (Full disclosure: Coal town guy asked for my input on the article.) The post office area doesn't appear notable to me; it seems to be a similar situation to
Beverly Hills Post Office, but unlike that area, I can't find any references to this outside of the post office website. The most this seems to deserve is a mention in the Wayzata article.
TheCatalyst31
Reaction•
Creation 21:12, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
- The bit about Beverly Hills is useful. That post office has gotten plenty of coverage, if for no other reason than the 90210 television show, and thus it's helpful to have a separate article. This one, however, appears to be a thoroughly run-of-the-mill situation, since virtually every municipality in the USA has a post office whose ZIP code extends outside the municipal boundaries. We definitely don't need separate articles on ZIP codes or post offices, unless either the post office itself has gotten coverage (e.g. ones on the National Register) or the ZIP code/mailing area (such as Beverly Hills) has gotten substantial amounts of coverage. Nyttend ( talk) 22:01, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
Back ground on why the article was created. The area known as "wayzata" is misleading. As the original article stated, the area includes municipalities surrounding it, which of course is not unusual in and by itself. What is unusual is the addresses that occur within the Wayzata zip code that are in different municipalities. This list is off the top of my head, but can be substantiated.
- Cargill is in Minnetonka, Minnesota
- Carlson Companies is also
- The Pillsbury Family lives in Orono, Minnesota
- Much Dayton Family lives in the zip code
- Stephen Sanger of Wells Fargo, Target Corporation and Pfizer
- Virginia McKnight Binger and James H. Binger of 3M & Honeywell as well as Jujamcyn Theaters also lived in Minnetonka
I kept adjusting the article on Cargill, but because it's zip code is Wayzata's it is listed as that, thus not being in Minnetonka.
The well meaning editors having a problem with this, are missing the point. Rather than slap a misleading redirect, why wouldn't the well intentioned, but action challenged editors incorporate the verbiage from this article into the Wayzata Minnesota with a bookmark redirect?
This redirect harms the accuracy of articles. What sort of proof is sufficient? a map of the geographic area?
The May 1980 Town and Country magazine, profiled Wayzata, but actually profiled the area code. This article was created to fix mistakes like that. People turn to wikipedia for information. The "notability" of this area is the number of times it is used to describe an address for notable article subjects and it implies incorrect and misleading information.
The Beverly Hills PO area is considered a geographic region by area realtors. No similar thing exists in the wayzata PO. But lacking any model for such a situation as stating a person or business is in a particular city, when it is actually up to three municipalities or a body of water away, is as misleading as telling Chinese Laborers they have jobs in "America" in the form of Guam.
There are real needs in Wikipedia, and this article in wikipedia served a small purpose, and its elimination through lazy redirection was not a real need, nor an improvement to wikipedia, but perhaps an example of misinformed vandalism.
K3vin aka ~ К3вину ( RSVP) ( What) 03:40, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
- Thats a a great argument, but its hardly neutral. In fact, you are arguing a POV, which is NOT supposed to be in Wikipedia. Let me see if I get this right, feel free to correct me. There is a Post Office in a state which resides in a city which does not line up its zip codes properly and hence, its deceiving??? Is that correct?? Are you aware of how many post offices in the lower 48 of the USA have mis aligned zip codes?? I am. It numbers in the thousands. So, lets take a look at this specoifc Post Office. Is it famous or notable according to wiki standards? NO. Did a famous person design the building and hence is has a sort of artistic symbol? NO. Did a TV show that was really popular use this PO? NO. Did a movie get filmed there that was of note? NO. I very very much doubt there is a purposeful deception by people in general about poorly lined zip codes. SO, unless you can tell the world, in a way that is notable on Wikipedia about this specfic PO, its gonna be a redirect to the city. Otherwise, can you imagine, what would be next? How about stall 3, second floor of the mens restroom at Union station being notable and hence, an article on wiki? UH NO. Coal town guy ( talk) 13:40, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
- Redirect-Class Minnesota articles
- NA-importance Minnesota articles
- Redirect-Class United States articles
- NA-importance United States articles
- Redirect-Class United States articles of NA-importance
- Redirect-Class United States Government articles
- NA-importance United States Government articles
- WikiProject United States Government articles
- WikiProject United States articles
|
| This redirect does not require a rating on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||||
As a former resident of this area, that was actually a citizen of the city of Minnetonka, I cannot stress enough how confusing it was to get cabs or packages. People would automatically start at Wayzata, and not understand we were on the other side of the lake other side of the causeway etc. I modeled this page on a similar phenom that occurs in Beverly Hills, CA. The area code is larger than the city of Beverly Hills.
In Wayzata's case, the real power and money, is outside its city limits, but within the area code.
-- K3vin ( talk) 00:27, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
Why was this article redirected? The edit summery says "we cover ZIP codes in the city articles" but there's nothing in the Wayzata, Minnesota article about ZIP codes or Wayzata Post Office, and the redirect it misleading. It makes it look like Wayzata Post Office and Wayzata are the same thing, even tough (according to the target's hatnote) Wayzata Post Office is a "much larger area". then Wayzata. Emmette Hernandez Coleman ( talk) 02:37, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
- This is no different from any other post office in the USA; ZIP codes pretty much always cover extensive areas outside municipal boundaries. Look at the
map for my ZIP code — it's
Bloomington, but the large majority is unincorporated (the area that's incorporated is smaller than the area of
Lake Monroe), including where I live, ten miles from the post office. The ZIP code is covered in the article's infobox, just like all other cities' ZIP codes. This is nothing but an article on the ZIP code for an average city, and we generally don't do articles for famous ZIP codes; even
90210 has nothing about the ZIP code except a link to the city where it's located. I would have merged material into the city article if there were anything acceptable, but the page had nothing with sources; nothing should have been moved to the city article.
Nyttend (
talk) 18:02, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
- The article implies that it isn't an ordinary Zip code, but a notable unincorporated community whose boundaries are defined by a (presumably otherwise ordinary) Zip code. If this "Wayzata Post Office" is a notable unincorporated community, then it's a notable unincorporated community; that it's boundaries are defined by a Zip code is irreverent to this discussion. The redirect is misleading, it would be better to delete this then to redirect it.
Emmette Hernandez Coleman (
talk) 05:27, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
- I'm restoring the article sense the redirect is misleading, and I don't think that boundaries being defined by a Zip code is a valid reason to get rid of the article. That said I have no problem with this being brought to AFD; if this is not notable as an unincorporated community, then it should be deleted or merged.
- The article implies that it isn't an ordinary Zip code, but a notable unincorporated community whose boundaries are defined by a (presumably otherwise ordinary) Zip code. If this "Wayzata Post Office" is a notable unincorporated community, then it's a notable unincorporated community; that it's boundaries are defined by a Zip code is irreverent to this discussion. The redirect is misleading, it would be better to delete this then to redirect it.
Emmette Hernandez Coleman (
talk) 05:27, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
- I don't see why being unreferenced should prevent this from being merged tough. I don't realty object to deletion, but the requirement is verifiability, not verified. If someone believes, or believes it likely, that something in this article is inaccurate, he can challenge it, and then it would be necessary to either provide a source or remove the info. Unless that happens, or unless there is some reason to believe that this article is very inaccurate, I don't see why it shouldn't be merged simply for being unreferenced. We have verifiable, but unreferenced material all over the encyclopedia.
Emmette Hernandez Coleman (
talk) 18:28, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
- Thats a train wreck of logic. In short, you would rather have no refd data all over and thus, make it worthless??? How about some GNIS data on the PO??? ANYTHING. It must be true, I read it on the internet at Wikipedia. WOW
Coal town guy (
talk) 18:38, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
- If I understand you correctly, no. Verifiable, but unreferenced, is certainly not an ideal situation, but is is an acceptable situation. We don't delete (or otherwise get rid of) articles simply for being unreferenced. Emmette Hernandez Coleman ( talk) 18:51, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
- Thats a train wreck of logic. In short, you would rather have no refd data all over and thus, make it worthless??? How about some GNIS data on the PO??? ANYTHING. It must be true, I read it on the internet at Wikipedia. WOW
Coal town guy (
talk) 18:38, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
- Yes we do, unrefd data when challenged can and will be removed, thats why we have a ref challenge flag. Find the sources, and ref them, great, otherwise, its a waste of resources, ref it, or it will go away, its a fact, see WP:MOS Coal town guy ( talk) 18:53, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
- I don't see why being unreferenced should prevent this from being merged tough. I don't realty object to deletion, but the requirement is verifiability, not verified. If someone believes, or believes it likely, that something in this article is inaccurate, he can challenge it, and then it would be necessary to either provide a source or remove the info. Unless that happens, or unless there is some reason to believe that this article is very inaccurate, I don't see why it shouldn't be merged simply for being unreferenced. We have verifiable, but unreferenced material all over the encyclopedia.
Emmette Hernandez Coleman (
talk) 18:28, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
- Unrefd data is not the same thing as challenged data. That said it looks like you challenge weather community/section exists. The reason I reverted that edit was that this article has allways been about the community/section. The section may be named "Wayzata Post Office", but that doesn't make it the same thing as the post office itself (e.g. Beverly Hills Post Office). I seriously doubt that the post office itself is notable, and even if it is it probably isn't notable for ZIP code. If the post office itself is notable, we can make an article (or article section) for it, but this is not that article (see United States Post Office (Merced, California) for an example of a post office article). That said, feel free to nominate this article at AFD. Emmette Hernandez Coleman ( talk) 19:41, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
- I did a Google search for "Wayzata Post Office", but all I could find results related to the post office itself. Maybe the results for the community are just really well berried, but if so that's a strong sign that isn't notable. I'll invite the creator here in case he has a source. Emmette Hernandez Coleman ( talk) 20:17, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
You have ref citations that are pulling from the city and not the PO, they are not defined hence the error. I will tage this as a merge later, its a wreck and in fact, incorrect data wise Coal town guy ( talk) 18:47, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
- The only ref there is the one to usps.com. If you're refering to this edit, I imported the infobox verbatim from Wayzata, Minnesota, then adapted it for this article in the next edit. It makes the attribution easier. Emmette Hernandez Coleman ( talk) 19:51, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
SUPPORT MERGE No ref, no data, the main editor wants it to be an unincorporated community, the onus is on the editor. I found a ref for the po, its NOT notable in any way other than the fact its a post office of a city. UNLESS, ANYONE can show the glory and notability of this needs to be merged. Coal town guy ( talk) 20:42, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
- (Full disclosure: Coal town guy asked for my input on the article.) The post office area doesn't appear notable to me; it seems to be a similar situation to
Beverly Hills Post Office, but unlike that area, I can't find any references to this outside of the post office website. The most this seems to deserve is a mention in the Wayzata article.
TheCatalyst31
Reaction•
Creation 21:12, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
- The bit about Beverly Hills is useful. That post office has gotten plenty of coverage, if for no other reason than the 90210 television show, and thus it's helpful to have a separate article. This one, however, appears to be a thoroughly run-of-the-mill situation, since virtually every municipality in the USA has a post office whose ZIP code extends outside the municipal boundaries. We definitely don't need separate articles on ZIP codes or post offices, unless either the post office itself has gotten coverage (e.g. ones on the National Register) or the ZIP code/mailing area (such as Beverly Hills) has gotten substantial amounts of coverage. Nyttend ( talk) 22:01, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
Back ground on why the article was created. The area known as "wayzata" is misleading. As the original article stated, the area includes municipalities surrounding it, which of course is not unusual in and by itself. What is unusual is the addresses that occur within the Wayzata zip code that are in different municipalities. This list is off the top of my head, but can be substantiated.
- Cargill is in Minnetonka, Minnesota
- Carlson Companies is also
- The Pillsbury Family lives in Orono, Minnesota
- Much Dayton Family lives in the zip code
- Stephen Sanger of Wells Fargo, Target Corporation and Pfizer
- Virginia McKnight Binger and James H. Binger of 3M & Honeywell as well as Jujamcyn Theaters also lived in Minnetonka
I kept adjusting the article on Cargill, but because it's zip code is Wayzata's it is listed as that, thus not being in Minnetonka.
The well meaning editors having a problem with this, are missing the point. Rather than slap a misleading redirect, why wouldn't the well intentioned, but action challenged editors incorporate the verbiage from this article into the Wayzata Minnesota with a bookmark redirect?
This redirect harms the accuracy of articles. What sort of proof is sufficient? a map of the geographic area?
The May 1980 Town and Country magazine, profiled Wayzata, but actually profiled the area code. This article was created to fix mistakes like that. People turn to wikipedia for information. The "notability" of this area is the number of times it is used to describe an address for notable article subjects and it implies incorrect and misleading information.
The Beverly Hills PO area is considered a geographic region by area realtors. No similar thing exists in the wayzata PO. But lacking any model for such a situation as stating a person or business is in a particular city, when it is actually up to three municipalities or a body of water away, is as misleading as telling Chinese Laborers they have jobs in "America" in the form of Guam.
There are real needs in Wikipedia, and this article in wikipedia served a small purpose, and its elimination through lazy redirection was not a real need, nor an improvement to wikipedia, but perhaps an example of misinformed vandalism.
K3vin aka ~ К3вину ( RSVP) ( What) 03:40, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
- Thats a a great argument, but its hardly neutral. In fact, you are arguing a POV, which is NOT supposed to be in Wikipedia. Let me see if I get this right, feel free to correct me. There is a Post Office in a state which resides in a city which does not line up its zip codes properly and hence, its deceiving??? Is that correct?? Are you aware of how many post offices in the lower 48 of the USA have mis aligned zip codes?? I am. It numbers in the thousands. So, lets take a look at this specoifc Post Office. Is it famous or notable according to wiki standards? NO. Did a famous person design the building and hence is has a sort of artistic symbol? NO. Did a TV show that was really popular use this PO? NO. Did a movie get filmed there that was of note? NO. I very very much doubt there is a purposeful deception by people in general about poorly lined zip codes. SO, unless you can tell the world, in a way that is notable on Wikipedia about this specfic PO, its gonna be a redirect to the city. Otherwise, can you imagine, what would be next? How about stall 3, second floor of the mens restroom at Union station being notable and hence, an article on wiki? UH NO. Coal town guy ( talk) 13:40, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
- Redirect-Class Minnesota articles
- NA-importance Minnesota articles
- Redirect-Class United States articles
- NA-importance United States articles
- Redirect-Class United States articles of NA-importance
- Redirect-Class United States Government articles
- NA-importance United States Government articles
- WikiProject United States Government articles
- WikiProject United States articles