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Mesh-ki-ag-gasher is a more appropriate form; Mec-ki-aj-gacer comes from the ETCSL encoding convention for ASCII representation of Sumerian transliteration. ( [1])
Some rephrasing is needed for "brought the official kingship with him from the city of Eanna", as Eanna (named after the temple therein, "the House of Heaven"="the House of An") was just one of the two districts of Uruk, separated by the river; the other was Kulaba, which is also referred to in some Wikipedia articles. (Would it be better two write two stubs on Eanna and Kulaba, or redirect these two on Uruk?). In "Gilgamesh and Akka" (from the Sumerian Gilgamesh cycle), Gilgamesh is several times referred to as "Lord of Kulaba", which suggests there was originally two independent settlements. -- Oop 10:29, Sep 26, 2004 (UTC)
Lord of Kulaba, versus Mistress of Eanna (Inanna/Ishtar), right? I agree with the basic fact that two settlements grew together (with two quays, two centers of administration.) But in Sumerian society there was also the "En" versus "Nin" (masculine versus feminine), two distinct roles in city administration, (which is not to imply that the two roles were filled by people of corresponding sex.) Somewhere we have Bilgames/Gilgamesh promising Inanna/Ishtar that he won't pass judgement from the temple seat of Inanna. Alan Canon 17:59, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Masoretic Genesis creates a sothic 243-year Venus from Flood to (80-year old Serug) Mesh-Kiang-NaNa of Ur ruling 36 years, and Mesh-Kiang-Gasher of Ereck on the same dates. I find these Venus dates to be 2369bc Jan 6 (600-3-27) and 2126bc Jan 6 (846-10-13), with anointing on 10-1 (Dec 25) to rule new year 847 (2126bc March 25). As a new year of Greg.March 7 is it possible for the barley of EnMerkar to exist this early on this Venus date, or do we look at Venus 80 Julian years earlier (81 of 360-day and 2 months 60 days) where new year is Greg.May 6 in 2206bc. By reading this Wikipeda article i do not think Enmerkar is the Nimrod who founded Ereck, but rather Nimrod founded Ereck by making Enmerkar its king (presiding Elder). I guess this means EnMerkar precedes this 2127bc of Mesh-King-Gasher (or is it Cush-Shar). The 3077bc Saptarsi Manu (Noah) in India puts Nimrod's death of age 500 in year 950 (2127bc) as if Mesh-Kiang-Gasher becomes king because Nimrod dies. Interesting how Ereck becomes a wall around two cities before Nineveh becomes a (2058bc) wall around 4 cities, and makes me wonder if the 2060bc Marduk Temple of Babel included a wall around (2240bc) Tower and this Temple-foundation by Haran who at 18 left Ur. Using 39-year Mars (Marduk) I can see the confusion between 215-year Nimrod (212 Julian) in Nineveh's 2058bc and the 215-year death of Ur's AmarPal (1881bc). 72.133.177.118 ( talk)
Is it part of the transliteration? 198.166.59.152 14:08, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
00:53, 22 January 2007 Codex Sinaiticus (Talk | contribs) (This is one specific, historic city in South Mesopotamia, no need to link all these global archaeological cultures when the article content is not related)
I would disagree with you. I've read a lot of stuff about the Uruk period which can be defined as an culture that spread and innovated civilization in the Mesopotamian region. Thus, not being just an historic city. The Uruk period is critical to the understanding of the rise of civilization, and with a table those interesting in placing the Uruk culture in a bigger picture could do that. It should not be several Uruk-artickles (1) the city, (2) the culture etc. I find the article conted very related.
Do you disagree Codex Sinaiticus?
raven_rs :)
"At its population height [WHICH WAS WHEN??] , Uruk probably had 50,000–80,000 residents living in 6 square kilometres of walled area, the largest city in the world at its time [AND THAT TIME WAS??]. Uruk represents one of the world's first cities, with a dense population. Uruk also saw the rise of the state in Mesopotamia with a full-time bureaucracy, military, and stratified society. Cities that coexisted at this time [WHICH IS WHAT TIME??] with Uruk were only about 10 hectares in area showing that is was vastly larger and more complex." GeneCallahan ( talk) 20:13, 23 December 2007 (UTC) Asking when i presume you mean was its height of Sumer 2000bc or of Seleucus 300bc or of Moslem 600ad. 72.133.177.118 ( talk)
Looking at the old Erech article, I agree that stuff should have been merged with this article. However, I think the Biblical material should now be the Erech article. Historicpastime ( talk) 16:31, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
I did some edits to fix the problems with the dates and added the first citations also fixed some ambiguity in the growth section-- Gurdjieff ( talk) 04:12, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
I have made many edits for clarity nothing was deleted only moved to the paragraph with the matching topic sentence. wherever I could cite a date population or land area I added this information. I also fixed the lead in sentance to meet wiki standards this article still needs alot of work for example when why and how did kullaba form? what happens to uruk after 2000bce? when was the city walled and why? ect.-- Gurdjieff ( talk) 00:24, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Does anyone not believe that the Bible's Erech is Uruk? john k ( talk) 01:37, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
In which municipal district of Muthanna is Uruk located in? -- Criticalthinker ( talk) 12:34, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
Said to be in As Samawah but looking at Districts of Iraq it's a close call. Ploversegg ( talk) 00:42, 4 January 2009 (UTC)ploversegg
Looks good. Might want to take a look at Warka Vase, Mask of Warka and Short chronology timeline. I would say "mask" could be put in for deletion, "vase" could either be folded into Uruk or pointed to in the text or See Also, and "chronology" could just go on the See Also list. Minor. Ploversegg ( talk) 01:39, 20 December 2008 (UTC)ploversegg
Merged "mask" into the article and pointed to the other two in see also-- Gurdjieff ( talk) 11:41, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
one more thing that can be done to upgrade the article quality would be to add more categories and add uruk to the see also section of relevant articles--
Gurdjieff (
talk) 11:58, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
Deletion is proposed and discussed at : commons:Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Eanna4composite.svg . Teofilo talk 08:05, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
Now I don't know if this would be all that notable, and even if it was, whether it would fit here, anywhere. But there are people, me included, who instead of considering the date as 2010 from the supposed birth of Jesus Christ, consider it 7033 from the founding of Uruk and thereby notable human civilization. So... Just thought I'd put that out there. 99.229.252.229 ( talk) 06:34, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
I find nearly nothing here about "building C", it is not in the legenda of the picture. It is called "temple C" by the archaeologists and some people think it is the most beautyful temples there. -- Dlugacz ( talk) 10:05, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
Hi everyone. Can somebody possibly help understanding what Harmansah, 2007 is. i s not a "conventional way" o list a source at all and some data is used from there that makes absolutely no sense. like 80 000 inhabitants in the bronze period. Sounds absurd because these many inhabitants in a city are very rare even in middle ages. Can anybody explain this "source"?
Algaze (2013), basing estimates on Nissen (2003), suggests an Uruk metro area population of 80-90,000 people in the late period (second half of fourth millennium). References:
Algaze, Guillermo. 2013. "The end of prehistory and the Uruk period." In The Sumerian World, ed. Harriet Crawford. London: Routledge, pp. 68-94. Nissen, H.-J. 2003. "Uruk and the Formation of the City." In Art of the First Cities: The Third Millennium B.C. from the Mediterranean to the Indus, ed. J. Aruz. New York: Metropolitan Museum of Art, pp. 11-20. Bapu vaitla ( talk) 18:21, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
I'm interested in the actual age of the oldest writing. Has it been carbon dated, and if so, reliably? The reason is that someone I know keeps saying that the oldest writing is Mesopotamian (without ever sourcing his claim, of course). However, the oldest Egyptian writing is dated to the 34th century BC and King Scorpion. These were pictographs, which very quickly turned into Hieroglyphs in the 32nd century BC. I'm not finding a similar development of Cuneiform from pictographs to the stylized cuneiform, before that date. In fact Mesopotamiam writing goes from pictographs to cuneiform in the 26th century BC. I take it there is no evidence of Egyptian pictographs being based on Mesopotamian pictigraphs? So what exactly is the claim that Egyptian writing came from Mesopotamia and therefore isnot the oldest, based on? MrSativa ( talk) 00:56, 9 November 2016 (UTC)
Hi MrSativa,
I found this, after reading your post, because it spiked my interest:
"The Dispilio tablet was discovered by a professor of prehistoric archaeology, George Xourmouziadis, in 1993 in a Neolithic lake settlement in Northern Greece near the city of Kastoria. A group of people used to occupy the settlement 7,000 to 8,000 years ago. The Dispilio tablet was one of many artefacts that were found in the area, however the importance of the table lies in the fact that it has an unknown written text on it that goes back further than 5,000 BC. The wooden tablet was dated using the C12 method to have been made in 5260 BC, making it significantly older than the writing system used by the Sumerians."
The web link is
http://www.ancient-origins.net/ancient-writings-ancient-places-europe/dispilio-tablet-oldest-known-written-text-00913
How true this article is, I do not know. I could not find anything on your unknown source, the only reason I am on the article of Uruk/ Erech is because i am writing a fictional book, but would like certain things in it to be accurate as possible. Anyways, I will continue to do more research on this subject matter, because I am including Egyptians in my book as well. Mrs.Decker ( talk) 16:40, 19 December 2016 (UTC)
I only wish to contribute that archaeologist David W. Anthony states in a book I'm reading on a different region's archaeology that the information on Uruk in this article "has been completely rewritten" in recent times. Anthony's information relying on North Mesopotamian and European archaeology as well as pre-Persian archaeology describes a period from 3,700 BCE to 3,100 BCE when Uruk and Ur were the urban anchors of an extensive trade and resource extraction network that involved significant mass-production of finished goods found in burials in Susa, Arslantepe, and Maikop while sourcing gems from as far away as land in today's Tajikistan. My long-term observation of Wikipedia is that all trace of these remarks I'm making will be obliterated by personally offended young residents of New York City who personally don't like the plausibility that what I'm saying has been commercially print-published in a legitimate source of information for a Wikipedia article, by Princeton University Press, so I'm not squandering my own resources editing this article; but if I'm wrong then perhaps the thirty-years-out-of-date information in this article could be updated by means of reliance on more recent science. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.89.39.188 ( talk) 02:42, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
The two translations are mistakenly exchanged. I am not able to manage these confused codings. HJHolm ( talk) 15:45, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:White_Temple_ziggurat_in_Uruk.jpg
The photo linked above is claimed in the article to depict the White Temple, which was located in the Anu District. In reality it shows the Eanna Ziggurat, located in the Eanna District. 79.167.148.97 ( talk) 14:57, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
This
level-4 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.
Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. |
Reporting errors |
Mesh-ki-ag-gasher is a more appropriate form; Mec-ki-aj-gacer comes from the ETCSL encoding convention for ASCII representation of Sumerian transliteration. ( [1])
Some rephrasing is needed for "brought the official kingship with him from the city of Eanna", as Eanna (named after the temple therein, "the House of Heaven"="the House of An") was just one of the two districts of Uruk, separated by the river; the other was Kulaba, which is also referred to in some Wikipedia articles. (Would it be better two write two stubs on Eanna and Kulaba, or redirect these two on Uruk?). In "Gilgamesh and Akka" (from the Sumerian Gilgamesh cycle), Gilgamesh is several times referred to as "Lord of Kulaba", which suggests there was originally two independent settlements. -- Oop 10:29, Sep 26, 2004 (UTC)
Lord of Kulaba, versus Mistress of Eanna (Inanna/Ishtar), right? I agree with the basic fact that two settlements grew together (with two quays, two centers of administration.) But in Sumerian society there was also the "En" versus "Nin" (masculine versus feminine), two distinct roles in city administration, (which is not to imply that the two roles were filled by people of corresponding sex.) Somewhere we have Bilgames/Gilgamesh promising Inanna/Ishtar that he won't pass judgement from the temple seat of Inanna. Alan Canon 17:59, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Masoretic Genesis creates a sothic 243-year Venus from Flood to (80-year old Serug) Mesh-Kiang-NaNa of Ur ruling 36 years, and Mesh-Kiang-Gasher of Ereck on the same dates. I find these Venus dates to be 2369bc Jan 6 (600-3-27) and 2126bc Jan 6 (846-10-13), with anointing on 10-1 (Dec 25) to rule new year 847 (2126bc March 25). As a new year of Greg.March 7 is it possible for the barley of EnMerkar to exist this early on this Venus date, or do we look at Venus 80 Julian years earlier (81 of 360-day and 2 months 60 days) where new year is Greg.May 6 in 2206bc. By reading this Wikipeda article i do not think Enmerkar is the Nimrod who founded Ereck, but rather Nimrod founded Ereck by making Enmerkar its king (presiding Elder). I guess this means EnMerkar precedes this 2127bc of Mesh-King-Gasher (or is it Cush-Shar). The 3077bc Saptarsi Manu (Noah) in India puts Nimrod's death of age 500 in year 950 (2127bc) as if Mesh-Kiang-Gasher becomes king because Nimrod dies. Interesting how Ereck becomes a wall around two cities before Nineveh becomes a (2058bc) wall around 4 cities, and makes me wonder if the 2060bc Marduk Temple of Babel included a wall around (2240bc) Tower and this Temple-foundation by Haran who at 18 left Ur. Using 39-year Mars (Marduk) I can see the confusion between 215-year Nimrod (212 Julian) in Nineveh's 2058bc and the 215-year death of Ur's AmarPal (1881bc). 72.133.177.118 ( talk)
Is it part of the transliteration? 198.166.59.152 14:08, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
00:53, 22 January 2007 Codex Sinaiticus (Talk | contribs) (This is one specific, historic city in South Mesopotamia, no need to link all these global archaeological cultures when the article content is not related)
I would disagree with you. I've read a lot of stuff about the Uruk period which can be defined as an culture that spread and innovated civilization in the Mesopotamian region. Thus, not being just an historic city. The Uruk period is critical to the understanding of the rise of civilization, and with a table those interesting in placing the Uruk culture in a bigger picture could do that. It should not be several Uruk-artickles (1) the city, (2) the culture etc. I find the article conted very related.
Do you disagree Codex Sinaiticus?
raven_rs :)
"At its population height [WHICH WAS WHEN??] , Uruk probably had 50,000–80,000 residents living in 6 square kilometres of walled area, the largest city in the world at its time [AND THAT TIME WAS??]. Uruk represents one of the world's first cities, with a dense population. Uruk also saw the rise of the state in Mesopotamia with a full-time bureaucracy, military, and stratified society. Cities that coexisted at this time [WHICH IS WHAT TIME??] with Uruk were only about 10 hectares in area showing that is was vastly larger and more complex." GeneCallahan ( talk) 20:13, 23 December 2007 (UTC) Asking when i presume you mean was its height of Sumer 2000bc or of Seleucus 300bc or of Moslem 600ad. 72.133.177.118 ( talk)
Looking at the old Erech article, I agree that stuff should have been merged with this article. However, I think the Biblical material should now be the Erech article. Historicpastime ( talk) 16:31, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
I did some edits to fix the problems with the dates and added the first citations also fixed some ambiguity in the growth section-- Gurdjieff ( talk) 04:12, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
I have made many edits for clarity nothing was deleted only moved to the paragraph with the matching topic sentence. wherever I could cite a date population or land area I added this information. I also fixed the lead in sentance to meet wiki standards this article still needs alot of work for example when why and how did kullaba form? what happens to uruk after 2000bce? when was the city walled and why? ect.-- Gurdjieff ( talk) 00:24, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Does anyone not believe that the Bible's Erech is Uruk? john k ( talk) 01:37, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
In which municipal district of Muthanna is Uruk located in? -- Criticalthinker ( talk) 12:34, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
Said to be in As Samawah but looking at Districts of Iraq it's a close call. Ploversegg ( talk) 00:42, 4 January 2009 (UTC)ploversegg
Looks good. Might want to take a look at Warka Vase, Mask of Warka and Short chronology timeline. I would say "mask" could be put in for deletion, "vase" could either be folded into Uruk or pointed to in the text or See Also, and "chronology" could just go on the See Also list. Minor. Ploversegg ( talk) 01:39, 20 December 2008 (UTC)ploversegg
Merged "mask" into the article and pointed to the other two in see also-- Gurdjieff ( talk) 11:41, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
one more thing that can be done to upgrade the article quality would be to add more categories and add uruk to the see also section of relevant articles--
Gurdjieff (
talk) 11:58, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
Deletion is proposed and discussed at : commons:Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Eanna4composite.svg . Teofilo talk 08:05, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
Now I don't know if this would be all that notable, and even if it was, whether it would fit here, anywhere. But there are people, me included, who instead of considering the date as 2010 from the supposed birth of Jesus Christ, consider it 7033 from the founding of Uruk and thereby notable human civilization. So... Just thought I'd put that out there. 99.229.252.229 ( talk) 06:34, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
I find nearly nothing here about "building C", it is not in the legenda of the picture. It is called "temple C" by the archaeologists and some people think it is the most beautyful temples there. -- Dlugacz ( talk) 10:05, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
Hi everyone. Can somebody possibly help understanding what Harmansah, 2007 is. i s not a "conventional way" o list a source at all and some data is used from there that makes absolutely no sense. like 80 000 inhabitants in the bronze period. Sounds absurd because these many inhabitants in a city are very rare even in middle ages. Can anybody explain this "source"?
Algaze (2013), basing estimates on Nissen (2003), suggests an Uruk metro area population of 80-90,000 people in the late period (second half of fourth millennium). References:
Algaze, Guillermo. 2013. "The end of prehistory and the Uruk period." In The Sumerian World, ed. Harriet Crawford. London: Routledge, pp. 68-94. Nissen, H.-J. 2003. "Uruk and the Formation of the City." In Art of the First Cities: The Third Millennium B.C. from the Mediterranean to the Indus, ed. J. Aruz. New York: Metropolitan Museum of Art, pp. 11-20. Bapu vaitla ( talk) 18:21, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
I'm interested in the actual age of the oldest writing. Has it been carbon dated, and if so, reliably? The reason is that someone I know keeps saying that the oldest writing is Mesopotamian (without ever sourcing his claim, of course). However, the oldest Egyptian writing is dated to the 34th century BC and King Scorpion. These were pictographs, which very quickly turned into Hieroglyphs in the 32nd century BC. I'm not finding a similar development of Cuneiform from pictographs to the stylized cuneiform, before that date. In fact Mesopotamiam writing goes from pictographs to cuneiform in the 26th century BC. I take it there is no evidence of Egyptian pictographs being based on Mesopotamian pictigraphs? So what exactly is the claim that Egyptian writing came from Mesopotamia and therefore isnot the oldest, based on? MrSativa ( talk) 00:56, 9 November 2016 (UTC)
Hi MrSativa,
I found this, after reading your post, because it spiked my interest:
"The Dispilio tablet was discovered by a professor of prehistoric archaeology, George Xourmouziadis, in 1993 in a Neolithic lake settlement in Northern Greece near the city of Kastoria. A group of people used to occupy the settlement 7,000 to 8,000 years ago. The Dispilio tablet was one of many artefacts that were found in the area, however the importance of the table lies in the fact that it has an unknown written text on it that goes back further than 5,000 BC. The wooden tablet was dated using the C12 method to have been made in 5260 BC, making it significantly older than the writing system used by the Sumerians."
The web link is
http://www.ancient-origins.net/ancient-writings-ancient-places-europe/dispilio-tablet-oldest-known-written-text-00913
How true this article is, I do not know. I could not find anything on your unknown source, the only reason I am on the article of Uruk/ Erech is because i am writing a fictional book, but would like certain things in it to be accurate as possible. Anyways, I will continue to do more research on this subject matter, because I am including Egyptians in my book as well. Mrs.Decker ( talk) 16:40, 19 December 2016 (UTC)
I only wish to contribute that archaeologist David W. Anthony states in a book I'm reading on a different region's archaeology that the information on Uruk in this article "has been completely rewritten" in recent times. Anthony's information relying on North Mesopotamian and European archaeology as well as pre-Persian archaeology describes a period from 3,700 BCE to 3,100 BCE when Uruk and Ur were the urban anchors of an extensive trade and resource extraction network that involved significant mass-production of finished goods found in burials in Susa, Arslantepe, and Maikop while sourcing gems from as far away as land in today's Tajikistan. My long-term observation of Wikipedia is that all trace of these remarks I'm making will be obliterated by personally offended young residents of New York City who personally don't like the plausibility that what I'm saying has been commercially print-published in a legitimate source of information for a Wikipedia article, by Princeton University Press, so I'm not squandering my own resources editing this article; but if I'm wrong then perhaps the thirty-years-out-of-date information in this article could be updated by means of reliance on more recent science. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.89.39.188 ( talk) 02:42, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
The two translations are mistakenly exchanged. I am not able to manage these confused codings. HJHolm ( talk) 15:45, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:White_Temple_ziggurat_in_Uruk.jpg
The photo linked above is claimed in the article to depict the White Temple, which was located in the Anu District. In reality it shows the Eanna Ziggurat, located in the Eanna District. 79.167.148.97 ( talk) 14:57, 26 January 2024 (UTC)