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I'm currently waiting on permission to use the image located at http://www.victorianweb.org/painting/misc/woodville1.html Mintguy (T) 03:33, 17 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Shouldn't the poems and song be at wikisource? Lisiate 01:34, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Can the theories on the term's origin cite their sources, and provide explicit and linked references please? Sliggy 00:47, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
Yeah, I've often wondered if there was some link. But other than the sheer attractiveness of the idea, is there any evidence this is true? Disney history or interviews? Otherwise it's just unfounded speculation, and should be phrased as such and moved further down, or deleted. JackyR 17:50, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
This article contains the full text of three poems (or, rather, two poems and a song) which I think ought not to be there. The guidelines tell us we shouldn't include copies of text like this, and since they are simply included without comment I think that there is no benefit to keeping them rather than copying them to wikisource and linking to them. I tried to do this with the Rudyard Kipling poem, but Jooler reverted my change. So, commentary will be appreciated: ought the poems to remain, or ought they to be linked to instead? -- Sopoforic 00:13, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
I had asked Jooler for reasons why the poems should be kept, and he responded (on my talk page): "I have already explained. I see no reason beyond bureaucracy ( Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not#Wikipedia_is_not_a_bureaucracy) not to include them. Jooler 00:33, 31 January 2007 (UTC)"
One reason to remove it (besides that the guidelines suggest that it should be removed, which is a pretty good reason absent any argument for keeping it) is that it unnecessarily lengthens the page; we like to keep the pages brief, where possible, which is one reason we split up large articles. In this case there's nothing to split: there is only the text of the poems, which is better linked to. -- Sopoforic 00:40, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
There was a Thomas Atkins who was the sole survivor from the Mary in the Great Storm. He was washed on board the Stirling Castle which then sank and again he was one of only a handful of survivors. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Storm_of_1703 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.70.35.103 ( talk) 04:04, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
The quote from Jamaica in 1743 is important, but we need a source. It suggests that this was a generic term all along, not a specific person, although this is not necessarily inconsistent with the idea that its currency may have been increased by its use in official forms in the early 19th century. However one thing that concerns me slightly about this quote is the archaic "ye", would this have been used as late as 1743? PatGallacher ( talk) 17:06, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
--cut here--
The name "Tommy" for the British soldier was most likely to have been in the wars of the eighteenth century the Prussian/German soldiers were our allies and on a Tuesday and Thursday regularly, the commissariat would issue a dark bread as part of the rations with the nickname "tommie". The cooks would bang pots and pans and call the surrounding troops to "collect" their ration. It wasn't an option! They would call out over the camp "Tommie, come and get your tommie". The bread was a form of black bread, heavy and solid and hard to eat unless moistened, but lasted well on marches and in the field. It also had many good grains and cereals in the making although the soldiers still all hated it. The grumbles and calls were heard by other troops, not British, but our German allies, and so the term was used in a slightly derogatory way to gently or deliberately "annoy" the soldiers when mixing in camps and on leave. So the term was used in the 1760's and was generic by the Napoleonic wars in 1800-1815. Tommy "the bread" was not something that continued in the British Army as part of its weekly rations and so by the time of the "First World War, the Germans had presumably remembered the term and used it more effectively then and now the term has been corrupted by our common belief it was because of the English common usage of "Tommie" or "Tommy" for a persons name. (This information was of the bread was taken from an eighteenth century military account. The information about rations should be checkable in the Army archives in the British War museum). The use of the word "tommie" cannot be ignored as to the true derivation of the word "Tommy" as the appellation for the British soldier.
--cut here--
Removed this until it is properly cited, and has had tone issues fixed. Also needs checking for copy-vio.
Rich
Farmbrough, 11:56, 15 June 2011 (UTC).
Just been adding to the 'Private Tommy Atkins' music paragraph and two assertions following have irked me:
1)"It is also said that the name "Tommy Atkins" was the example name on conscription sheets during the First World War, and that teenagers who were underage often signed up as "Tommy Atkins".[citation needed]" 2) "Today's soldier is nicknamed (within the Army) "Tom", and the British Army magazine Soldier features a cartoon strip character called Tom.[citation needed]"
1) I've looked at many army forms from WW1 and never seen Tommy Atkins used as a placeholder. Likewise underage volunteers were hardly likely to use such an obvious name if they wanted to slip under the radar. So, urban myths both methinks. If citations can be found (and of course I have looked) then the info can go back in - sourced - but until then... 2) The first statement is much better explained in the introduction, and, as it stands, is just common knowledge. And I have found no evidence for the 'Soldier' cartoon strip (other sites just quote Wiki and a potential urban myth is formed. So unless a citation can be found, I think I will be bold! Colin aka Henri Merton 11:24, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
The article states that a memorial service will be held on the death of "the last veteran" of the First World War. Will the service be held now that Claude Choules has died or has it already been held? Was this the service mentioned in the article? Björn Knutson ( talk) 14:00, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
The picture of a soldier with a doll reminds me of a newspaper or television report some years ago of an elderly widow who had to move to a nursing home and wanted to make sure that when she passed away her doll would be properly conserved.
She had, as a young wife, received the doll, a beautiful high-quality work of art type doll, as a gift from her husband who had bought it in France or Belgium on his way home at either the end of The Great War or when coming home on leave during The Great War.
Her wishes had been observed and her doll was found a permanent place to be treasured in a museum. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.169.208.159 ( talk) 13:48, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
I have deleted this paragraph as irrelevant:
Or should we list here every mention of a WW1 British soldier named Tommy?</irony> -- Thnidu ( talk) 14:14, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
In the second-to-last sentence in "In Popular Culture", the fuel for a Tommy Cooker is referred to as "...something referred to as solidified alcohol" - wouldn't language such as "known as" or even entirely removing the "something referred to as" be more appropriate? PiddleAndTwiddle ( talk) 17:37, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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I'm currently waiting on permission to use the image located at http://www.victorianweb.org/painting/misc/woodville1.html Mintguy (T) 03:33, 17 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Shouldn't the poems and song be at wikisource? Lisiate 01:34, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Can the theories on the term's origin cite their sources, and provide explicit and linked references please? Sliggy 00:47, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
Yeah, I've often wondered if there was some link. But other than the sheer attractiveness of the idea, is there any evidence this is true? Disney history or interviews? Otherwise it's just unfounded speculation, and should be phrased as such and moved further down, or deleted. JackyR 17:50, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
This article contains the full text of three poems (or, rather, two poems and a song) which I think ought not to be there. The guidelines tell us we shouldn't include copies of text like this, and since they are simply included without comment I think that there is no benefit to keeping them rather than copying them to wikisource and linking to them. I tried to do this with the Rudyard Kipling poem, but Jooler reverted my change. So, commentary will be appreciated: ought the poems to remain, or ought they to be linked to instead? -- Sopoforic 00:13, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
I had asked Jooler for reasons why the poems should be kept, and he responded (on my talk page): "I have already explained. I see no reason beyond bureaucracy ( Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not#Wikipedia_is_not_a_bureaucracy) not to include them. Jooler 00:33, 31 January 2007 (UTC)"
One reason to remove it (besides that the guidelines suggest that it should be removed, which is a pretty good reason absent any argument for keeping it) is that it unnecessarily lengthens the page; we like to keep the pages brief, where possible, which is one reason we split up large articles. In this case there's nothing to split: there is only the text of the poems, which is better linked to. -- Sopoforic 00:40, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
There was a Thomas Atkins who was the sole survivor from the Mary in the Great Storm. He was washed on board the Stirling Castle which then sank and again he was one of only a handful of survivors. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Storm_of_1703 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.70.35.103 ( talk) 04:04, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
The quote from Jamaica in 1743 is important, but we need a source. It suggests that this was a generic term all along, not a specific person, although this is not necessarily inconsistent with the idea that its currency may have been increased by its use in official forms in the early 19th century. However one thing that concerns me slightly about this quote is the archaic "ye", would this have been used as late as 1743? PatGallacher ( talk) 17:06, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
--cut here--
The name "Tommy" for the British soldier was most likely to have been in the wars of the eighteenth century the Prussian/German soldiers were our allies and on a Tuesday and Thursday regularly, the commissariat would issue a dark bread as part of the rations with the nickname "tommie". The cooks would bang pots and pans and call the surrounding troops to "collect" their ration. It wasn't an option! They would call out over the camp "Tommie, come and get your tommie". The bread was a form of black bread, heavy and solid and hard to eat unless moistened, but lasted well on marches and in the field. It also had many good grains and cereals in the making although the soldiers still all hated it. The grumbles and calls were heard by other troops, not British, but our German allies, and so the term was used in a slightly derogatory way to gently or deliberately "annoy" the soldiers when mixing in camps and on leave. So the term was used in the 1760's and was generic by the Napoleonic wars in 1800-1815. Tommy "the bread" was not something that continued in the British Army as part of its weekly rations and so by the time of the "First World War, the Germans had presumably remembered the term and used it more effectively then and now the term has been corrupted by our common belief it was because of the English common usage of "Tommie" or "Tommy" for a persons name. (This information was of the bread was taken from an eighteenth century military account. The information about rations should be checkable in the Army archives in the British War museum). The use of the word "tommie" cannot be ignored as to the true derivation of the word "Tommy" as the appellation for the British soldier.
--cut here--
Removed this until it is properly cited, and has had tone issues fixed. Also needs checking for copy-vio.
Rich
Farmbrough, 11:56, 15 June 2011 (UTC).
Just been adding to the 'Private Tommy Atkins' music paragraph and two assertions following have irked me:
1)"It is also said that the name "Tommy Atkins" was the example name on conscription sheets during the First World War, and that teenagers who were underage often signed up as "Tommy Atkins".[citation needed]" 2) "Today's soldier is nicknamed (within the Army) "Tom", and the British Army magazine Soldier features a cartoon strip character called Tom.[citation needed]"
1) I've looked at many army forms from WW1 and never seen Tommy Atkins used as a placeholder. Likewise underage volunteers were hardly likely to use such an obvious name if they wanted to slip under the radar. So, urban myths both methinks. If citations can be found (and of course I have looked) then the info can go back in - sourced - but until then... 2) The first statement is much better explained in the introduction, and, as it stands, is just common knowledge. And I have found no evidence for the 'Soldier' cartoon strip (other sites just quote Wiki and a potential urban myth is formed. So unless a citation can be found, I think I will be bold! Colin aka Henri Merton 11:24, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
The article states that a memorial service will be held on the death of "the last veteran" of the First World War. Will the service be held now that Claude Choules has died or has it already been held? Was this the service mentioned in the article? Björn Knutson ( talk) 14:00, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
The picture of a soldier with a doll reminds me of a newspaper or television report some years ago of an elderly widow who had to move to a nursing home and wanted to make sure that when she passed away her doll would be properly conserved.
She had, as a young wife, received the doll, a beautiful high-quality work of art type doll, as a gift from her husband who had bought it in France or Belgium on his way home at either the end of The Great War or when coming home on leave during The Great War.
Her wishes had been observed and her doll was found a permanent place to be treasured in a museum. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.169.208.159 ( talk) 13:48, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
I have deleted this paragraph as irrelevant:
Or should we list here every mention of a WW1 British soldier named Tommy?</irony> -- Thnidu ( talk) 14:14, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
In the second-to-last sentence in "In Popular Culture", the fuel for a Tommy Cooker is referred to as "...something referred to as solidified alcohol" - wouldn't language such as "known as" or even entirely removing the "something referred to as" be more appropriate? PiddleAndTwiddle ( talk) 17:37, 28 September 2023 (UTC)