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i am the mother of the second person murdered by leonard leabeater, robert steele and raymond basset. i see it has been posted as 30th march 1993. the killing spree started before this date, but the seige took place at that date. there is one mistake with this information you have listed on your site. i was told it was CANGAI not Calgai as you have listed it in your pages. the siege took just over 16 hours, and they also kidnapped 4 children. 2 of the murderers are dead, at their own hand, and the last one is still serving time in jail, in queensland. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.212.156.93 ( talk) 12:28, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
Recently an editor removed the Azaria Chamberlain entry in the list, there was an enormous criminal investigation. I believe it should stay however to avoid getting into an edit war, I think some feedback would be appropriate. On one side there was a conviction and criminal investigation and on the other side there was a subsequent acquittal.The edit in question is 9 January 2010, I look forward to the feedback of other editors. Matt ( talk) 00:15, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
From a legal point of view what happend was not a crime, as it was proven in 1986 that the child was taken by a dingo. So that was the reason why i removed it from the page but if people what to reverse my edit so be it, i not going to have an edit war over it ( Silverhorse ( talk) 03:12, 13 January 2010 (UTC))
Further to Silverhorse's comments, from 1980 until 1986 it was a major crime, then from 1986 onwards it stopped being a major crime, and I am inclined to think that it could be included in a timeline. The third coroners inquest found the cause of death unknown I am not sure in legal terms where this leaves things, someone else may know that. Matt ( talk) 04:41, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
Ok, here's another one:
Should this one stay, given that there is no definate proof a crime has been commited? There is an investigation, suspects, theories, etc - but no definate outcome. Thoughts? Jwoodger ( talk) 12:42, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
While I believe that what is a "major crime" is subjective, would it be possible for us to work out a proper definition with regards to *this* list. Should it be limited to Australian crimes that were newsworthy enough to be reported nationally and to have their own Wikipedia entries (or have the potential to do so). I fear this list could become unmanageable if we attempt to document every violent crime that makes the papers. Thoughts? BrianFG ( talk) 03:20, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
As per the above; I propose that only the following is included in this list:
Any thoughts? Cheers Jwoodger ( talk) 07:25, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
Recently I added an item which was sourced as a "Major crime" (hence satisfying point 1 above), but it was removed by an IP editor. The article is Timeline of Major crimes, and a source said it was a major crime. Perhaps that is not enough? What should be a further threshold? Or should I put back in the entry? ( here)? Jwoodger ( talk) 05:55, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
Recently the Herman Rockefellow page was deleted per wp guidelines, although I made a keep recommendation it was poorly argued per various wp notability guidelines. I believe this case will go on to be one of strong public and media interest and ultimately notability. It is the sort of case about which a book or video documentary will be produced. I have found that there appears to be an aversion by some editors to crime related material, and there is often a deletion tag placed on new articles very quickly. This was my experience with the Betty Shanks Murder, a deletion tag was placed on it very quickly, anyone familiar with Australian crime history knows the significance and notability of this case. I do not believe every criminal, victim or criminal act is worthy of a page however, the way the guidelines are established need to be understood so each case can be argued. I would suggest any crime related afd's that come up in the future, that a link to the discussion be posted here and also for reference as to why articles are deleted, have a look at Herman Rockefeller Deletion discussion the discussion is enlightening. Matt ( talk) 01:51, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
I've had a look at several news reports on the Lauren Huxley case of 2005 - None of them mention that she was raped. Could we get validation/removal of this detail please. Edit: It doesn't appear that she was set alight either - The house was set on fire and she was doused with petrol but not set on fire. Validation please. G2sean ( talk) 06:34, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
I've reverted the anon edit recently added that stated "Captain Cook lands in Sydney Cove and illegally claims the land as British territory under the terra nullius provision, a claim that was later disproven with the 1992 Mabo ruling. The ownership of the land is still in dispute today." The claim it was a "major crime" needs verifiable supporting evidence, like much else on this page. I also think this statement hardly does justice to the complexity of the issue raised by the Mabo ruling. Anyway, it would good if the anon user could expand on why its relevant here on the talk page. Nickm57 ( talk) 06:44, 9 April 2011 (UTC)
Someone please add Milosevic Murders [1] [2] & Homestead Murders [3] [4]. .@Photnart. ( talk) 04:06, 21 December 2014 (UTC).
I'd argue that the recent linking of the Deaths of Karlie Pearce-Stevenson and Khandalyce Pearce - and the fact that the killer used identity fraud to take out money from the dead mother's accounts warrants inclusion as a "major" crime.
Not sure if anyone has explained what constitutes "major"? -- Callinus ( talk) 13:22, 29 October 2015 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 04:30, 2 July 2016 (UTC)
There are some suggestions to make this article look better. 1. Currently its divided into 2 parts (when looking in the simplest sense): The crimes followed by something else (see also, citations, references). The crimes section has 3 sections, one for each century this article covers (19th through 21st). Out of these 3, they have sub sections (1 for each decade in that century when there was a major crime in Australia and is listed here). I think it's confusing if there are no sub sub sections for the individual years (should be included). 2. A table or tables may further help clear up any confusion. Thanks! 211.27.126.189 ( talk) 12:21, 23 November 2018 (UTC)
I have removed a number of items on the timeline in the 21st century as it has appeared to become a repository for news items as they happen. While every murder is tragic, unfortunately they do not all meet the kind of criteria that has been proposed previously for this list of 'major crimes', particularly those that are unsourced and have no links to other articles. Are there other editors interested in re-visiting the question of establishing some criteria for this list? Melcous ( talk) 23:32, 23 November 2018 (UTC)
This [5] edit has been undone four times now. It no longer contains the WP:POV description of the protestors as "savages", but it still does not appear to be a major crime. A door was "briefly set alight" at the Old Parliament House. No-one was injured. Meters ( talk) 08:43, 31 December 2021 (UTC)
Father of 2 shot in the head while sleeping in family home 49.195.122.100 ( talk) 16:59, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
I've seen quite a bit of discussion in the sections above about what constitutes a "major crime". In my opinion, many of the arguments are flawed, especially the "blue links" argument that asserts that an entry must have a main article in order to be considered notable. In my opinion, that's not actually how the WP:NOTABILITY rule actually works Wikipedia-wide.
In my opinion, what constitutes a "major crime" is largely arbitrary. But nonetheless, one of the crimes that I believe automatically qualifies as major is murder. It's a bit difficult to fathom that some people above (granted, from ten years ago) are arguing that murder sometimes doesn't qualify as a major crime. Listen, Australia is not the United States. Murder is not an everyday occurrence in this country. Each and every murder case has its own story. If it has been covered to a reasonable extent by the media, then it is notable enough.
Indeed, I personally believe that omitting certain heinous murder cases from this list (which has been the case for some time now, it seems) actually serves a propaganda purpose of giving the impression that Australia possesses less crime than it actually does. I do admit that Australia possesses relatively little crime compared to certain other countries, but there have been certain horrendous crimes committed in Australia that really need to be discussed on Wikipedia; if they don't have main articles, then they can easily be discussed in this list article.
I was actually shocked to see that some of these cases were entirely missing from Wikipedia up until recently. Just yesterday, I added several of these murder cases that I believe should have been included on this list years ago, despite not possessing main articles. Several of these crimes occurred in close succession with one another, and they were often discussed collectively in the media, highlighting a certain "trend" of crimes. This is especially with regards to the increasing rate of murders against women in Melbourne during the 2010s. Jargo Nautilus ( talk) 01:53, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
As someone who has recently arrived at the scene, I am noticing a very concerning pattern of dictatorial behaviour in the edit history of this article that may warrant closer scrutiny. A lot of what some users are doing here is just not right. Gatekeeping "major crimes" for who knows what reason. A lot of this behaviour is reportable. Just saying. Anyway, I would appreciate some input here. Thanks. Jargo Nautilus ( talk) 02:24, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
Your recent edit appears to have added the name of a non-notable entity to a list that normally includes only notable entries. In general, a person, organization or product added to a list should have a pre-existing article before being added to most lists. If you wish to create such an article, please first confirm that the subject qualifies for a separate, stand-alone article according to Wikipedia's notability guideline.It's not written in stone, and individual list articles can develop their own less restrictive inclusion rules, but it's clear that consensus is that this list article should not include every murder case, and there seems to be support for not including crimes without a Wikipedia article showing their notability.
This article is rated List-class on Wikipedia's
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Daily pageviews of this article
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i am the mother of the second person murdered by leonard leabeater, robert steele and raymond basset. i see it has been posted as 30th march 1993. the killing spree started before this date, but the seige took place at that date. there is one mistake with this information you have listed on your site. i was told it was CANGAI not Calgai as you have listed it in your pages. the siege took just over 16 hours, and they also kidnapped 4 children. 2 of the murderers are dead, at their own hand, and the last one is still serving time in jail, in queensland. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.212.156.93 ( talk) 12:28, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
Recently an editor removed the Azaria Chamberlain entry in the list, there was an enormous criminal investigation. I believe it should stay however to avoid getting into an edit war, I think some feedback would be appropriate. On one side there was a conviction and criminal investigation and on the other side there was a subsequent acquittal.The edit in question is 9 January 2010, I look forward to the feedback of other editors. Matt ( talk) 00:15, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
From a legal point of view what happend was not a crime, as it was proven in 1986 that the child was taken by a dingo. So that was the reason why i removed it from the page but if people what to reverse my edit so be it, i not going to have an edit war over it ( Silverhorse ( talk) 03:12, 13 January 2010 (UTC))
Further to Silverhorse's comments, from 1980 until 1986 it was a major crime, then from 1986 onwards it stopped being a major crime, and I am inclined to think that it could be included in a timeline. The third coroners inquest found the cause of death unknown I am not sure in legal terms where this leaves things, someone else may know that. Matt ( talk) 04:41, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
Ok, here's another one:
Should this one stay, given that there is no definate proof a crime has been commited? There is an investigation, suspects, theories, etc - but no definate outcome. Thoughts? Jwoodger ( talk) 12:42, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
While I believe that what is a "major crime" is subjective, would it be possible for us to work out a proper definition with regards to *this* list. Should it be limited to Australian crimes that were newsworthy enough to be reported nationally and to have their own Wikipedia entries (or have the potential to do so). I fear this list could become unmanageable if we attempt to document every violent crime that makes the papers. Thoughts? BrianFG ( talk) 03:20, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
As per the above; I propose that only the following is included in this list:
Any thoughts? Cheers Jwoodger ( talk) 07:25, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
Recently I added an item which was sourced as a "Major crime" (hence satisfying point 1 above), but it was removed by an IP editor. The article is Timeline of Major crimes, and a source said it was a major crime. Perhaps that is not enough? What should be a further threshold? Or should I put back in the entry? ( here)? Jwoodger ( talk) 05:55, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
Recently the Herman Rockefellow page was deleted per wp guidelines, although I made a keep recommendation it was poorly argued per various wp notability guidelines. I believe this case will go on to be one of strong public and media interest and ultimately notability. It is the sort of case about which a book or video documentary will be produced. I have found that there appears to be an aversion by some editors to crime related material, and there is often a deletion tag placed on new articles very quickly. This was my experience with the Betty Shanks Murder, a deletion tag was placed on it very quickly, anyone familiar with Australian crime history knows the significance and notability of this case. I do not believe every criminal, victim or criminal act is worthy of a page however, the way the guidelines are established need to be understood so each case can be argued. I would suggest any crime related afd's that come up in the future, that a link to the discussion be posted here and also for reference as to why articles are deleted, have a look at Herman Rockefeller Deletion discussion the discussion is enlightening. Matt ( talk) 01:51, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
I've had a look at several news reports on the Lauren Huxley case of 2005 - None of them mention that she was raped. Could we get validation/removal of this detail please. Edit: It doesn't appear that she was set alight either - The house was set on fire and she was doused with petrol but not set on fire. Validation please. G2sean ( talk) 06:34, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
I've reverted the anon edit recently added that stated "Captain Cook lands in Sydney Cove and illegally claims the land as British territory under the terra nullius provision, a claim that was later disproven with the 1992 Mabo ruling. The ownership of the land is still in dispute today." The claim it was a "major crime" needs verifiable supporting evidence, like much else on this page. I also think this statement hardly does justice to the complexity of the issue raised by the Mabo ruling. Anyway, it would good if the anon user could expand on why its relevant here on the talk page. Nickm57 ( talk) 06:44, 9 April 2011 (UTC)
Someone please add Milosevic Murders [1] [2] & Homestead Murders [3] [4]. .@Photnart. ( talk) 04:06, 21 December 2014 (UTC).
I'd argue that the recent linking of the Deaths of Karlie Pearce-Stevenson and Khandalyce Pearce - and the fact that the killer used identity fraud to take out money from the dead mother's accounts warrants inclusion as a "major" crime.
Not sure if anyone has explained what constitutes "major"? -- Callinus ( talk) 13:22, 29 October 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Timeline of major crimes in Australia. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 06:50, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Timeline of major crimes in Australia. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 04:30, 2 July 2016 (UTC)
There are some suggestions to make this article look better. 1. Currently its divided into 2 parts (when looking in the simplest sense): The crimes followed by something else (see also, citations, references). The crimes section has 3 sections, one for each century this article covers (19th through 21st). Out of these 3, they have sub sections (1 for each decade in that century when there was a major crime in Australia and is listed here). I think it's confusing if there are no sub sub sections for the individual years (should be included). 2. A table or tables may further help clear up any confusion. Thanks! 211.27.126.189 ( talk) 12:21, 23 November 2018 (UTC)
I have removed a number of items on the timeline in the 21st century as it has appeared to become a repository for news items as they happen. While every murder is tragic, unfortunately they do not all meet the kind of criteria that has been proposed previously for this list of 'major crimes', particularly those that are unsourced and have no links to other articles. Are there other editors interested in re-visiting the question of establishing some criteria for this list? Melcous ( talk) 23:32, 23 November 2018 (UTC)
This [5] edit has been undone four times now. It no longer contains the WP:POV description of the protestors as "savages", but it still does not appear to be a major crime. A door was "briefly set alight" at the Old Parliament House. No-one was injured. Meters ( talk) 08:43, 31 December 2021 (UTC)
Father of 2 shot in the head while sleeping in family home 49.195.122.100 ( talk) 16:59, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
I've seen quite a bit of discussion in the sections above about what constitutes a "major crime". In my opinion, many of the arguments are flawed, especially the "blue links" argument that asserts that an entry must have a main article in order to be considered notable. In my opinion, that's not actually how the WP:NOTABILITY rule actually works Wikipedia-wide.
In my opinion, what constitutes a "major crime" is largely arbitrary. But nonetheless, one of the crimes that I believe automatically qualifies as major is murder. It's a bit difficult to fathom that some people above (granted, from ten years ago) are arguing that murder sometimes doesn't qualify as a major crime. Listen, Australia is not the United States. Murder is not an everyday occurrence in this country. Each and every murder case has its own story. If it has been covered to a reasonable extent by the media, then it is notable enough.
Indeed, I personally believe that omitting certain heinous murder cases from this list (which has been the case for some time now, it seems) actually serves a propaganda purpose of giving the impression that Australia possesses less crime than it actually does. I do admit that Australia possesses relatively little crime compared to certain other countries, but there have been certain horrendous crimes committed in Australia that really need to be discussed on Wikipedia; if they don't have main articles, then they can easily be discussed in this list article.
I was actually shocked to see that some of these cases were entirely missing from Wikipedia up until recently. Just yesterday, I added several of these murder cases that I believe should have been included on this list years ago, despite not possessing main articles. Several of these crimes occurred in close succession with one another, and they were often discussed collectively in the media, highlighting a certain "trend" of crimes. This is especially with regards to the increasing rate of murders against women in Melbourne during the 2010s. Jargo Nautilus ( talk) 01:53, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
As someone who has recently arrived at the scene, I am noticing a very concerning pattern of dictatorial behaviour in the edit history of this article that may warrant closer scrutiny. A lot of what some users are doing here is just not right. Gatekeeping "major crimes" for who knows what reason. A lot of this behaviour is reportable. Just saying. Anyway, I would appreciate some input here. Thanks. Jargo Nautilus ( talk) 02:24, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
Your recent edit appears to have added the name of a non-notable entity to a list that normally includes only notable entries. In general, a person, organization or product added to a list should have a pre-existing article before being added to most lists. If you wish to create such an article, please first confirm that the subject qualifies for a separate, stand-alone article according to Wikipedia's notability guideline.It's not written in stone, and individual list articles can develop their own less restrictive inclusion rules, but it's clear that consensus is that this list article should not include every murder case, and there seems to be support for not including crimes without a Wikipedia article showing their notability.