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I am requesting this page be removed from Wikipedia and that it is blocked from being recreated along with my name. It is being used as a method of slandering myself and an organization that has been addressing sex crimes in Jewish communities for the last 11 years. Over the years various volunteers attempted to stop the attacks, yet it has become futile. I asking the legal department to get involved with this issue.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Vpolin ( talk • contribs) 02:56, 22 September 2010 (UTC) — Vpolin ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. David in DC ( talk) 00:29, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
It appears that SunAlsoRises keeps putting false information about The Awareness Center up on this site. Some examples include the fact that The Awareness Center has never had any paid employees, everyone is a volunteer. Also the organization was founded in 1999, and not 2000. I could go on, yet it seems that it is futile. Once again, we are requesting this page be removed and and that it and also my name be blocked from ever being able to be reentered into this site. comment added by Vpolin ( talk— Vpolin ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. David in DC ( talk) 00:29, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
I am asking that the cyber bullying cease, and that my name and The Awareness Center's name be blocked from Wikipedia. I'm asking that the legal department get involved ASAP! As for SunAlsoRises comments, there has never in the history of The Awareness Center ever been a paid employee. I don't get his rationalizations. The organization is non-profit, the list could go on and on regarding the false statements he's been making over the years. comment added by Vpolin ( talk —Preceding undated comment added 15:45, 3 October 2010 (UTC).
Replaced the corrections once again. The Awareness Center has never had a paid employee. Everyone including myself have been volunteering our time. The Awareness Center has always been a grassroots organization with very little funding. Also I want to mention the fact that the quotes from the Jewish Star come from a blog created on WordPress. The other resource is nothing more then a trash magazine. Once again I am asking the legal department to get involved and remove my name and that of The Awareness Center from Wikipedia permanently. Edit war in progress; please block SunAlsoRises and lock page, see discussion -- until the legal department removes this entry and the ability to for anyone else to slander my name..) comment added by Vpolin ( talk—has made few or no other edits outside this topic. David in DC ( talk) 00:25, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
I do not understand, what gives with SunAlsoRises repeated attacks a person who is living, and a grassroots organization that deals with sexual abuse/assault? The minute I put in the corrections he switches it back? What's his obsession with telling falsehoods? I'm told by those who live in the area where the Jewish Star is passed out, that it is sent out with coupons and other free give aways. I'm told that it's not a legitimate newspaper and the webpage is nothing more then a blog using wordpress. The attacks against my personhood and The Awareness Center started when we advocated for the survivors of a rabbi who confessed to child molestation and luring in adult women he was providing spiritual counseling to, along with another rabbi who was a high profile media case. I do not believe Wikipedia should be used as a place in which cyber bullying should be allowed. From reading the past entries, it appears that SunAlsoRises has been doing this for years. How long will Wikipedia allow such behavior? comment added by Vpolin ( talk —Preceding undated comment added 04:31, 4 October 2010 (UTC). — Vpolin ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. David in DC ( talk) 00:25, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
I also want to address SunAlsoRises concern about the title given to me by our board of directors. We are a non-profit, grassroots organization -- just like other organization in which funding is low and is all volunteer -- titles such as Executive Director and CEO are standard. When will this madness ever end. This is really getting quiet comical, yet the bottom line is that Wikipedia should not allow this sort of cyber bullying to be permitted. comment added by Vpolin ( talk —Preceding undated comment added 04:35, 4 October 2010 (UTC). — Vpolin ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. David in DC ( talk) 00:25, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
I was looking over the "corrections" SunAlsoRises keeps making. I think it's interesting in that he keeps removing the information that I have been nominated two years in a row as a nominee in the [ http://www.jewishcommunityheroes.org/nominees/profile/vicki-polin1/ Jewish Community Heroes of the Year Award]. This is an award put together by the Jewish Federation of North America. SunAlsoRises has also removed all articles in which spokes people for The Awareness Center has been quoted in reputable news papers, radio talk shows and also newscasts. He deletes information relating to anything positive anyone has to say, and only leaves derogatory information about myself and the organization. You have to start questioning his motives? Is it to promote an accurate perception of the work of grassroots, non-profit, organization that is a part of the Anti-rape movement? or does he have alternative motives? On The Awareness Center's web page you will find photographs of members of our organization with state legislators and other well known leaders in the movement. The Awareness Center has spoken at national conferences, legislative hearings and at various rallies. Why is this sort of information removed, yet the cyber bullying allowed? Once again, I am asking that the legal department at Wikipedia immediately get involved and block my name and that of The Awareness Center from this site Vpolin ( talk —Preceding undated comment added 14:08, 4 October 2010 (UTC). — Vpolin ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. David in DC ( talk) 00:25, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
I want to be able to respond to you Vianello, yet am in and out of town this week and swamped with the responsibilities of running a grassroots non-profit. I unable to research what you are talking about right now, yet if I am the crazy person that I'm being portrayed as by SunAlsoRises and your web site, why is it that we have such reputable people on our board and advisory board? This is nothing more then a hatchet job. I really expected much more from Wikipedia then this. Legitimate news media groups do not promote cyber bullying. It's interesting that the Washington Post, NewsDay, ABC, NBC, and CBS news (just to name some of the legitimate news medai groups) never reported any of this crap when interviewing me? Why? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vpolin ( talk • contribs) 02:36, 6 October 2010 (UTC) — Vpolin ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. David in DC ( talk) 00:25, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
Ms. Polin has been requesting this page be removed and blocked from being recreated. I've added background history on Vicky's education and experience, which I believe is important considering the work she has been doing in the Jewish community for the last 11 years. Chaim B ( Talk) 09:27, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
Is this a reliable source? http://thejewishstar.wordpress.com Wordpress sites are usually blogs, but this doesn't exactly resemble a normal blog. OTOH, they don't list editors or owners, so it doesn't quite resemble a newspaper either. Do we know anything more about it? Will Beback talk 16:58, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
I'm told by those who live in the area where the Jewish Star is passed out (Long Island, NY), that it is sent out with coupons and other free give aways. I'm told that it's not a legitimate newspaper and the webpage is nothing more then a blog using wordpress. ( talk) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vpolin ( talk • contribs) 04:43, 4 October 2010 (UTC) — Vpolin ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
Will, you removed the link to "Rachel" on youtube. This video speaks directly to the motivations of the founder of the organization. Was the organization founded because she is a tireless victims' advocate as she says, or to continue to tar the Jewish community with accusations true or false? To me at least, the video is not tangential. Could you explain your reasoning? SunAlsoRises ( talk) 20:45, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
Let's not resume the whitewash of Vicki Polin and her organization. Vicki Polin created a false accusation of sexual abuse and ritual murder, which the ADL called a modern-day blood libel against the Jewish community. You don't think that has direct bearing upon the purpose of her organization? It is not something to stick in the last paragraph of the controversy section. SunAlsoRises ( talk) 19:53, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
Right now it leads to a blank page. It's my recollection that somewhere in that long convoluted archive is reference to Ms. Polin's page being blanked at her request, with what useful information about the Center it held transferred to the Center's article.
Once The Jewish Star finally put the Rachel material into a reliable source, it could be added to the Center's article. But WP:BLP and especially WP:UNDUE argue for less prominent treatment of this sourced derogatory information about a living person than for derogatory information about the Center, which is neither living nor a person.
All the information is in the article. The dispute is about prominence, placement and wording. It's best to err on the side of caution. David in DC ( talk) 21:10, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
In an article about The Awareness Center, the focus must be on The Awareness Center. Criticism of its director is relevant, but even on pages that are not biographies of living people, the rules on derogatory information about living people apply.
That means the Rachel material needs to be the second sentence in the lede and the final part of the Criticism section. I've renamed that section, to make explicit the fact that both sorts of criticisms lay below the subhed.
The last section works better as writing qua writing, too. It starts with explicit criticism of the Center and its methods. Then comes the Catalyst material, which straddles the line between critique of the Center and characterization of Ms. Polin. Then the Rachel/Oprah/ADL stuff, which focus on Ms. Polin.
Also, as noted above, putting "Rachel" after the Catalyst stuff gets rid of that ugly business of ending on a block quote. David in DC ( talk) 16:31, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
Outside of Rabbi Blau, is there any non-TAC evidence for the support of the other 259 rabbis? -- Avi ( talk) 02:40, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
I've been monitoring the attacks against Vicki Polin and The Awareness Center on Wikipedia for a very long time. I've also noticed she requested this page be deleted and both her name and that of The Awareness Center barred from being re-entered. When ever anyone puts up accurate information regarding Ms. Polin and this organization it gets deleted. I've also been told this is happening to others who advocate for the rights of those who have been sexually abused. I'm curious if anyone has ever brought up legal action against Wikipedia for this sort of behavior? Chaim B ( Talk) 01:31, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
Polin's bizarre Oprah appearance, the criticism of the center for using rumor and anonymous blogs as "sources", and the put-down from Bell for acting as a "vigilante misanthrope" cast significant doubt upon whether TAC's true mission is an honest effort "to end sexual violence in the Jewish community." Most of the notable sources appear to suggest that its mission is to slander Jewish rabbis under the guise of ending sexual violence. I think it's more appropriate to call it the "stated" mission, rather than Wikipedia claiming to know the true mission. SunAlsoRises ( talk) 21:03, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
3 sources were cited. One of them (Rosenbluth) says: "According Rabbi Tzvi Kilstein, a former resident of Teaneck who now resides in Boca Raton; Arutz Sheva Radio personality Tovia Singer; and an inordinate number of blogs, Ms. Polin has claimed that, in 1989, she was a guest on the Oprah Winfrey program using the pseudonym 'Rachel'." So, Rosenbluth doesn't say it was Polin on Oprah, but rather says that blogs and two people say that Polin said so. I've removed Rosenbluth as a source for this claim, leaving 2 footnotes for the claim. Anythingyouwant ( talk) 01:52, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
(Undent) Is Catalyst a reliable source? There's not even a Wikipedia article about it, though there is a Wikipedia article about another magazine of the same name, Catalyst (magazine). Their website says they're in Salt Lake City, and "We are more than happy to consider unpublished writers, but please send examples of your writing." Anythingyouwant ( talk) 06:00, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
I think we're really taking this page downhill by dumbing-down the clear identification of Polin as Rachel. The two sources mentioned do not "claim to" identify her, they identify her. If it's a "claim," we certainly should be able to add the Jewish Voice back into the mix, or mention Rabbi Tovia Singer by name. There are a host of independent sources that are, individually, clearly not up to Wikipedia standards (among them, Yori Yanover, a respected Jewish journalist) -- but all of which identify her as Rachel as well. It is true that the user vpolin cried to you that this page is "libel." She even offered examples on this page of inaccurate information. She did not include the identification of Polen (her?) as Rachel. So why should you go beyond what is clearly true and NPOV -- these sources identify her as Rachel. SunAlsoRises ( talk) 01:12, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
The following two reliable sources say Baltimore:
http://www.clevelandjewishnews.com/articles/2007/01/25/news/local/insightabuse0125.txt
http://washingtonjewishweek.com/main.asp?SectionID=4&subsectionID=4&articleID=6566
What sources say Skokie? Anythingyouwant ( talk) 06:44, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
Regarding if it was Polin in the oprah show, Its peoples opinion and not confirmed, personally I would remove it as its not a widely reported claim either, but if you insist on adding it then please express the reality, and attribute it, as a claim only. Off2riorob ( talk) 01:24, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
I've just reverted two edits made on the basis that this biography is not a reliable source. It's the first edit by a new editor. I've asked the new editor to join a conversation on this page, both on his talk page and in my edit summary. The current consensus is that this book fits squarely within the wikipedia definition of a reliable source. I think it is. What do others think? Please leave the article alone on this score unless and until a new consensus is reached here. David in DC ( talk) 19:40, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
TAC's Executive Director has put out publicity in the past 2 days announcing the closure of TAC. Her announcements are used for sources right now. They're self-published, to the web, by TAC. It was long ago settled here that self-published TAC pages could not be cited for the truth of its accusations of abuse, but could be cited for its incorporation, mission statement, self-description, and claim of Rabbinic support. It's announced closing is just the bookend of its announced founding. Still, I'm on the lookout for a news story picking up TAC's announcement. I'll insert one when I find it. David in DC ( talk) 19:45, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
There's a site called Examiner dot com which is apparently blacklisted, and Vicki Polin's self-provided biography (as a writer) on that site references her appearance on the Oprah Winfrey show. Why was it blacklisted? SunAlsoRises ( talk) 22:23, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
TAC has resumed functioning, according to its latest web postings. Given recent COI edits, that seemed to be the case. I've changed the tenses of the verbs here, accordingly. TAC's executive director has also posted her explanation of her Oprah appearance. We already had reliable sources for that fact (NYT, Catalyst, Kitty Kelley's book about Oprah.) But all cast the executive director in a negative light. That's discussed extensively above and in the archives. Not to mention elsewhere.
The executive director's own words are now in the article, to answer prior concerns about balance. In my editorial judgment, they should be the last word on the subject, so that's where I've put them.
I've also updated any sentences in the article sourced to the old TAC web page with sources from the new one. Where I could find them, I've used what looks like the old sources, just reposted to the new site. In other cases, where I could not find exact matches, I've found similar ones. I tried to get rid of the dead links, but a bot didn't like that. So I've kept them in, appropriately tagged, but put the live links in front of them.
The vituperativeness of prior content disputes on this page had convinced me to retire from editing the page when the most recent waves of COI edits hit. But looking through the new site, I think I've found a way to answer the complaints in the recent COI edit summaries, improve the article per WP:BLP and WP:UNDUE, and treat the organization and executive director as fairly as possible, given the the verifiable, notable facts, as reported in reliable sources. David in DC ( talk) 02:13, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
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I am requesting this page be removed from Wikipedia and that it is blocked from being recreated along with my name. It is being used as a method of slandering myself and an organization that has been addressing sex crimes in Jewish communities for the last 11 years. Over the years various volunteers attempted to stop the attacks, yet it has become futile. I asking the legal department to get involved with this issue.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Vpolin ( talk • contribs) 02:56, 22 September 2010 (UTC) — Vpolin ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. David in DC ( talk) 00:29, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
It appears that SunAlsoRises keeps putting false information about The Awareness Center up on this site. Some examples include the fact that The Awareness Center has never had any paid employees, everyone is a volunteer. Also the organization was founded in 1999, and not 2000. I could go on, yet it seems that it is futile. Once again, we are requesting this page be removed and and that it and also my name be blocked from ever being able to be reentered into this site. comment added by Vpolin ( talk— Vpolin ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. David in DC ( talk) 00:29, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
I am asking that the cyber bullying cease, and that my name and The Awareness Center's name be blocked from Wikipedia. I'm asking that the legal department get involved ASAP! As for SunAlsoRises comments, there has never in the history of The Awareness Center ever been a paid employee. I don't get his rationalizations. The organization is non-profit, the list could go on and on regarding the false statements he's been making over the years. comment added by Vpolin ( talk —Preceding undated comment added 15:45, 3 October 2010 (UTC).
Replaced the corrections once again. The Awareness Center has never had a paid employee. Everyone including myself have been volunteering our time. The Awareness Center has always been a grassroots organization with very little funding. Also I want to mention the fact that the quotes from the Jewish Star come from a blog created on WordPress. The other resource is nothing more then a trash magazine. Once again I am asking the legal department to get involved and remove my name and that of The Awareness Center from Wikipedia permanently. Edit war in progress; please block SunAlsoRises and lock page, see discussion -- until the legal department removes this entry and the ability to for anyone else to slander my name..) comment added by Vpolin ( talk—has made few or no other edits outside this topic. David in DC ( talk) 00:25, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
I do not understand, what gives with SunAlsoRises repeated attacks a person who is living, and a grassroots organization that deals with sexual abuse/assault? The minute I put in the corrections he switches it back? What's his obsession with telling falsehoods? I'm told by those who live in the area where the Jewish Star is passed out, that it is sent out with coupons and other free give aways. I'm told that it's not a legitimate newspaper and the webpage is nothing more then a blog using wordpress. The attacks against my personhood and The Awareness Center started when we advocated for the survivors of a rabbi who confessed to child molestation and luring in adult women he was providing spiritual counseling to, along with another rabbi who was a high profile media case. I do not believe Wikipedia should be used as a place in which cyber bullying should be allowed. From reading the past entries, it appears that SunAlsoRises has been doing this for years. How long will Wikipedia allow such behavior? comment added by Vpolin ( talk —Preceding undated comment added 04:31, 4 October 2010 (UTC). — Vpolin ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. David in DC ( talk) 00:25, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
I also want to address SunAlsoRises concern about the title given to me by our board of directors. We are a non-profit, grassroots organization -- just like other organization in which funding is low and is all volunteer -- titles such as Executive Director and CEO are standard. When will this madness ever end. This is really getting quiet comical, yet the bottom line is that Wikipedia should not allow this sort of cyber bullying to be permitted. comment added by Vpolin ( talk —Preceding undated comment added 04:35, 4 October 2010 (UTC). — Vpolin ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. David in DC ( talk) 00:25, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
I was looking over the "corrections" SunAlsoRises keeps making. I think it's interesting in that he keeps removing the information that I have been nominated two years in a row as a nominee in the [ http://www.jewishcommunityheroes.org/nominees/profile/vicki-polin1/ Jewish Community Heroes of the Year Award]. This is an award put together by the Jewish Federation of North America. SunAlsoRises has also removed all articles in which spokes people for The Awareness Center has been quoted in reputable news papers, radio talk shows and also newscasts. He deletes information relating to anything positive anyone has to say, and only leaves derogatory information about myself and the organization. You have to start questioning his motives? Is it to promote an accurate perception of the work of grassroots, non-profit, organization that is a part of the Anti-rape movement? or does he have alternative motives? On The Awareness Center's web page you will find photographs of members of our organization with state legislators and other well known leaders in the movement. The Awareness Center has spoken at national conferences, legislative hearings and at various rallies. Why is this sort of information removed, yet the cyber bullying allowed? Once again, I am asking that the legal department at Wikipedia immediately get involved and block my name and that of The Awareness Center from this site Vpolin ( talk —Preceding undated comment added 14:08, 4 October 2010 (UTC). — Vpolin ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. David in DC ( talk) 00:25, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
I want to be able to respond to you Vianello, yet am in and out of town this week and swamped with the responsibilities of running a grassroots non-profit. I unable to research what you are talking about right now, yet if I am the crazy person that I'm being portrayed as by SunAlsoRises and your web site, why is it that we have such reputable people on our board and advisory board? This is nothing more then a hatchet job. I really expected much more from Wikipedia then this. Legitimate news media groups do not promote cyber bullying. It's interesting that the Washington Post, NewsDay, ABC, NBC, and CBS news (just to name some of the legitimate news medai groups) never reported any of this crap when interviewing me? Why? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vpolin ( talk • contribs) 02:36, 6 October 2010 (UTC) — Vpolin ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. David in DC ( talk) 00:25, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
Ms. Polin has been requesting this page be removed and blocked from being recreated. I've added background history on Vicky's education and experience, which I believe is important considering the work she has been doing in the Jewish community for the last 11 years. Chaim B ( Talk) 09:27, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
Is this a reliable source? http://thejewishstar.wordpress.com Wordpress sites are usually blogs, but this doesn't exactly resemble a normal blog. OTOH, they don't list editors or owners, so it doesn't quite resemble a newspaper either. Do we know anything more about it? Will Beback talk 16:58, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
I'm told by those who live in the area where the Jewish Star is passed out (Long Island, NY), that it is sent out with coupons and other free give aways. I'm told that it's not a legitimate newspaper and the webpage is nothing more then a blog using wordpress. ( talk) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vpolin ( talk • contribs) 04:43, 4 October 2010 (UTC) — Vpolin ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
Will, you removed the link to "Rachel" on youtube. This video speaks directly to the motivations of the founder of the organization. Was the organization founded because she is a tireless victims' advocate as she says, or to continue to tar the Jewish community with accusations true or false? To me at least, the video is not tangential. Could you explain your reasoning? SunAlsoRises ( talk) 20:45, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
Let's not resume the whitewash of Vicki Polin and her organization. Vicki Polin created a false accusation of sexual abuse and ritual murder, which the ADL called a modern-day blood libel against the Jewish community. You don't think that has direct bearing upon the purpose of her organization? It is not something to stick in the last paragraph of the controversy section. SunAlsoRises ( talk) 19:53, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
Right now it leads to a blank page. It's my recollection that somewhere in that long convoluted archive is reference to Ms. Polin's page being blanked at her request, with what useful information about the Center it held transferred to the Center's article.
Once The Jewish Star finally put the Rachel material into a reliable source, it could be added to the Center's article. But WP:BLP and especially WP:UNDUE argue for less prominent treatment of this sourced derogatory information about a living person than for derogatory information about the Center, which is neither living nor a person.
All the information is in the article. The dispute is about prominence, placement and wording. It's best to err on the side of caution. David in DC ( talk) 21:10, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
In an article about The Awareness Center, the focus must be on The Awareness Center. Criticism of its director is relevant, but even on pages that are not biographies of living people, the rules on derogatory information about living people apply.
That means the Rachel material needs to be the second sentence in the lede and the final part of the Criticism section. I've renamed that section, to make explicit the fact that both sorts of criticisms lay below the subhed.
The last section works better as writing qua writing, too. It starts with explicit criticism of the Center and its methods. Then comes the Catalyst material, which straddles the line between critique of the Center and characterization of Ms. Polin. Then the Rachel/Oprah/ADL stuff, which focus on Ms. Polin.
Also, as noted above, putting "Rachel" after the Catalyst stuff gets rid of that ugly business of ending on a block quote. David in DC ( talk) 16:31, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
Outside of Rabbi Blau, is there any non-TAC evidence for the support of the other 259 rabbis? -- Avi ( talk) 02:40, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
I've been monitoring the attacks against Vicki Polin and The Awareness Center on Wikipedia for a very long time. I've also noticed she requested this page be deleted and both her name and that of The Awareness Center barred from being re-entered. When ever anyone puts up accurate information regarding Ms. Polin and this organization it gets deleted. I've also been told this is happening to others who advocate for the rights of those who have been sexually abused. I'm curious if anyone has ever brought up legal action against Wikipedia for this sort of behavior? Chaim B ( Talk) 01:31, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
Polin's bizarre Oprah appearance, the criticism of the center for using rumor and anonymous blogs as "sources", and the put-down from Bell for acting as a "vigilante misanthrope" cast significant doubt upon whether TAC's true mission is an honest effort "to end sexual violence in the Jewish community." Most of the notable sources appear to suggest that its mission is to slander Jewish rabbis under the guise of ending sexual violence. I think it's more appropriate to call it the "stated" mission, rather than Wikipedia claiming to know the true mission. SunAlsoRises ( talk) 21:03, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
3 sources were cited. One of them (Rosenbluth) says: "According Rabbi Tzvi Kilstein, a former resident of Teaneck who now resides in Boca Raton; Arutz Sheva Radio personality Tovia Singer; and an inordinate number of blogs, Ms. Polin has claimed that, in 1989, she was a guest on the Oprah Winfrey program using the pseudonym 'Rachel'." So, Rosenbluth doesn't say it was Polin on Oprah, but rather says that blogs and two people say that Polin said so. I've removed Rosenbluth as a source for this claim, leaving 2 footnotes for the claim. Anythingyouwant ( talk) 01:52, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
(Undent) Is Catalyst a reliable source? There's not even a Wikipedia article about it, though there is a Wikipedia article about another magazine of the same name, Catalyst (magazine). Their website says they're in Salt Lake City, and "We are more than happy to consider unpublished writers, but please send examples of your writing." Anythingyouwant ( talk) 06:00, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
I think we're really taking this page downhill by dumbing-down the clear identification of Polin as Rachel. The two sources mentioned do not "claim to" identify her, they identify her. If it's a "claim," we certainly should be able to add the Jewish Voice back into the mix, or mention Rabbi Tovia Singer by name. There are a host of independent sources that are, individually, clearly not up to Wikipedia standards (among them, Yori Yanover, a respected Jewish journalist) -- but all of which identify her as Rachel as well. It is true that the user vpolin cried to you that this page is "libel." She even offered examples on this page of inaccurate information. She did not include the identification of Polen (her?) as Rachel. So why should you go beyond what is clearly true and NPOV -- these sources identify her as Rachel. SunAlsoRises ( talk) 01:12, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
The following two reliable sources say Baltimore:
http://www.clevelandjewishnews.com/articles/2007/01/25/news/local/insightabuse0125.txt
http://washingtonjewishweek.com/main.asp?SectionID=4&subsectionID=4&articleID=6566
What sources say Skokie? Anythingyouwant ( talk) 06:44, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
Regarding if it was Polin in the oprah show, Its peoples opinion and not confirmed, personally I would remove it as its not a widely reported claim either, but if you insist on adding it then please express the reality, and attribute it, as a claim only. Off2riorob ( talk) 01:24, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
I've just reverted two edits made on the basis that this biography is not a reliable source. It's the first edit by a new editor. I've asked the new editor to join a conversation on this page, both on his talk page and in my edit summary. The current consensus is that this book fits squarely within the wikipedia definition of a reliable source. I think it is. What do others think? Please leave the article alone on this score unless and until a new consensus is reached here. David in DC ( talk) 19:40, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
TAC's Executive Director has put out publicity in the past 2 days announcing the closure of TAC. Her announcements are used for sources right now. They're self-published, to the web, by TAC. It was long ago settled here that self-published TAC pages could not be cited for the truth of its accusations of abuse, but could be cited for its incorporation, mission statement, self-description, and claim of Rabbinic support. It's announced closing is just the bookend of its announced founding. Still, I'm on the lookout for a news story picking up TAC's announcement. I'll insert one when I find it. David in DC ( talk) 19:45, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
There's a site called Examiner dot com which is apparently blacklisted, and Vicki Polin's self-provided biography (as a writer) on that site references her appearance on the Oprah Winfrey show. Why was it blacklisted? SunAlsoRises ( talk) 22:23, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
TAC has resumed functioning, according to its latest web postings. Given recent COI edits, that seemed to be the case. I've changed the tenses of the verbs here, accordingly. TAC's executive director has also posted her explanation of her Oprah appearance. We already had reliable sources for that fact (NYT, Catalyst, Kitty Kelley's book about Oprah.) But all cast the executive director in a negative light. That's discussed extensively above and in the archives. Not to mention elsewhere.
The executive director's own words are now in the article, to answer prior concerns about balance. In my editorial judgment, they should be the last word on the subject, so that's where I've put them.
I've also updated any sentences in the article sourced to the old TAC web page with sources from the new one. Where I could find them, I've used what looks like the old sources, just reposted to the new site. In other cases, where I could not find exact matches, I've found similar ones. I tried to get rid of the dead links, but a bot didn't like that. So I've kept them in, appropriately tagged, but put the live links in front of them.
The vituperativeness of prior content disputes on this page had convinced me to retire from editing the page when the most recent waves of COI edits hit. But looking through the new site, I think I've found a way to answer the complaints in the recent COI edit summaries, improve the article per WP:BLP and WP:UNDUE, and treat the organization and executive director as fairly as possible, given the the verifiable, notable facts, as reported in reliable sources. David in DC ( talk) 02:13, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
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