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Big section on his use of speed - seems like too much info re: this topic. 71.90.92.4 ( talk) 18:06, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
Is it a Wikipedia policy that articles must be written in some sort of pseudo-English? A couple of hours ago I corrected the illiterate expression "became disinterested in school" to "lost interest in school," and now it's been reverted. Whoever did this must also have become disinterested in school at an early age. -- I just made a few more improvements to the languate of the section on "Early Life." without changing the content. If those edits are reverted too, I'll have a better understanding of why this site is as deeply flawed as it is. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.174.118.225 ( talk • contribs)
This is ridiculous. I can see the point about the self published source (not that I think it makes it unreliable when backed up by the other source) but the TV story definitely exists and I'm sure noone would argue that it's been fabricated by some YouTube user. It happens to be on YouTube and yes, that may be a copyvio, but since I can't find the exact date it aired I can't make a proper reference to it without linking to the video. If I knew the date I could make a reference without linking to the video and I don't think anyone would object. The actual source is the news story itself, not YouTube. I restored that source but I don't have the time or energy to fight over this so if you want to revert it again, go ahead but I think it's utterly ridiculous to remove a reliable source just because it's been watched on YouTube. That's certainly not helping to improve the article, and if it gets reverted again I hope some other user agrees with me and restores it. Entheta ( talk) 22:56, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
Here's the issue. There has been a lot of clamping down on sources like mansonfamilytoday.info, etc. because they contain unofficial and in some cases, possibly, illegally obtained content, thus they are being removed on a widespread basis. This is the basis for the issues with YouTube. It has nothing to do with whether anyone thinks it's been fabricated, but does have everything to do with the fact that the television program A Current Affair is a copyrighted and owned product. As you said, it may be a copyright violation, and that, for the YouTube ref, is the problem. We aren't permitted to disgregard that something may be a copyright violation and in fact, people get blocked for disregarding that. It isn't ridiculous to insist on valid, reliable sources. You're right, the news story is the source, but by using the link to YouTube, it asserts that the clip is legally on YouTube. It can be sourced to the news story itself and it would be fine, but using a YouTube copy of the program isn't fine, that isn't valid. But if you aren't inclined to find the proper sourcing for it, it isn't acceptable to just stick in a YouTube link that also violates copyright law. It has nothing to do with whether the clip is watched on YouTube, it is all about that YouTube, or the YouTube uploader, has no legal right to post portions of a copyrighted television program. If it's important enough to the article to be in it, then it's important enough to be validly sourced. I'm sorry if you find this frustrating, but if you pursue the question with WP:RS/N or an administrator, you're going to get the same answer. Find a way to source it to the original broadcast, but the fact is, we can't post an admittedly copyright-violating clip. References aren't a convenience, they are asserting the validity of the statement. Alternately, the actual parole hearing can be used if the details can be found. There certainly must be something somewhere in news sources or publications that would support this without resorting to a convenience link to YouTube. Wildhartlivie ( talk) 23:27, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
editors please be patient, this article was a mess with an almost complete omission of Watson's actions in the murders as well as dead links to a few websites. Fixing this will take a few days as I find books and references. Thanks. Catherine Huebscher ( talk) 21:12, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
Well what was up was what I'd want if i was this guys poor kids. The article I found simple skipped over the murders and his actions and had a huge section that was a thinly veiled expose of speed as an excuse for his actions. The cut and paste will all be reworked and, agreed its from only so so sourced material but I believe it to be true under the first amendment and I'll back it with a wide variety of cites, not just Helter Skelter. Catherine Huebscher ( talk) 23:00, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
At 00:32 and 00:33, 9 November 2009, the article's section re Watson's use of "speed" on the murder nights was revised — shortened. The first edit summary was as follows:
The second edit summary was this:
The first edit reduced passages that had been quoted from Watson's autobiography — passages in which Watson reported his use of speed on the nights of crime. It also reduced the size of a passage quoted from an October 1969 Los Angeles Magazine article. The magazine passage — whose remainder was eliminated in the second edit — is what was characterized, in the second edit summary, as "pointless and non-sequiter" [sic]. It reported on the possibility of a connection between speed and crime.
As for the statements in the edit summaries:
In a post of 23:00, 8 (?) November 2009, on the present talk header (in the entry headed "Article revision and clean up"), the editor who revised the speed section has repeated what is said in her edit summary. She writes that the "huge section" was "a thinly veiled expose of speed as an excuse for [Watson's] actions." Some persons you just can't fool.
"Sequitur," by the way, ends with "ur," not "er." It's a Latin verb, not a noun. JohnBonaccorsi ( talk) 09:53, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
I could actually care less about spelling errors in a revision line but thanks. I'm also typing with a baby in one hand. Honestly, the entire section about speeds effects does not belong in this article. All of Tex's speed claims should merit only about one paragraph, he's obviously not a trustworthy source! Catherine Huebscher ( talk) 2:54, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
"In those thirty-plus years, nobody, to my knowledge, has reported on the speed use. I have seen no reference to it in the many sources I've consulted in the course of quite a bit of work on some Wikipedia Manson material" Perhaps because Watson is using it as an excuse or another smoke screen to go along with his Christian life? I think the veracity of anything he writes could be called into question. Because almost no one read that book and its more of a biased novelty book then a clear look at the crimes? Include his quote but an excessive section on speed, as the above editor has pointed out does not make sense here. The article is about Tex unborn baby killer Watson who is the only source who said he used speed aside from perhaps Susan Atkins who was nearly tried for perjury. Nowhere in helter skelter, the definitive Manson book, could I locate, any recounting of their usage of speed on the nights of the murders as Tex mentioned. The article you quote belongs in the main meth page or should be condensed. And please drop the English lessons and/or critiquing my responses to you -you've made your point and it is very boring. Stick to the article. Catherine Huebscher ( talk) 1:54, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
Ms. Huebscher — I apologize for my harshness. Allow me to say a few more things about the value of the speed section. When you arrived at the Tex Watson article, you saw that it said almost nothing about the Tate-LaBianca murders. Evidently, you regarded that as evidence of a "whitewash." It was probably simply evidence that the editors, including me, who have attempted to whip some of Wikipedia’s Manson material into shape have not given much attention to the Watson article in particular. I am pretty sure that — in addition to the speed section — the only passages that I personally have contributed to the article have been two — one that explained Watson's first meeting with Manson and one that established the record re Watson's "I'm the devil" statement; but even those were added by me only to correct gross errors. A full, clear, and thoroughly-footnoted account of the crimes — including Watson's part therein — may be found at the Charles Manson article.
When I added the speed section, I anticipated the criticism it has received from you and another editor, on the present talk header. I knew that some persons would think it disproportionately long — if not altogether irrelevant — but I posted it anyway — because it is important — because, as I have said, the countless Manson reports, all over the internet and everywhere else, recycle — usually inaccurately — the same old material. One of Wikipedia's strengths, in my view, is that it enables ordinary persons to put before the world pieces of knowledge that have been overlooked by the cognoscenti. Possibly, some writer or magazine editor or filmmaker or other such person will one day come to Wikipedia, spot the article's speed section, and see in it an important something never really brought to the world's attention. In addition, the speed section, as crafted by me, was one of the article's few passages that was properly footnoted. Just about the whole of the article's remainder — except for the one or two other passages that I added — was, if I’m not mistaken, footnote-free (as, not incidentally, are most of your contributions). Because you reflexively thought the speed section intended to absolve Watson of wrongdoing, you deleted, in short, one of the article's few passages that had been presented with care.
As you see, I have reinserted the speed section. Maybe you will be inclined to leave it in this time. I have, by the way, taken a look at your blog — and have seen your photographs. Congratulations on your beauty and vivacity. They are rare enough. JohnBonaccorsi ( talk) 04:22, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
Thanks no problem at all, I had no intention of being rude myself, I apologize as well. I now realize that the Manson articles (I should have known this...) carry strong opinions and emotions along with them. Perhaps if the article was constructed better the section would fit in? Is that what you mean?If so that makes sense to me. Watson's article should be much more lengthy as he's next in line after Manson and perhaps alongside Atkins for the amount of havoc he wrecked. So yes leave it in and make the article much more detailed with conflicting accounts as well as trial documents etc. Catherine Huebscher ( talk) 21:00, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
As I said in the preceding section — one contributes to Wikipedia where one has the energy and the time. I personally can not work on the Watson article, but one thing that I can see the article probably needs is a section or two between "Early Life" and the account of the murders. What follows is a very-rough suggestion for such material. It definitely should not be regarded as accurate; I'm simply going from memory. I won't even attempt to footnote it — but I'd say most of it probably comes from Chapter 6 through Chapter 10 — and so on — of Watson's autobiography. I also haven't entered all of the necessary internal links — such as to "Beach Boys." The material starts with what is presently the final sentence of "Early Life":
Okay, my fellow editors — again: That's pretty rough — and completely un-footnoted — and probably only semi-accurate; but it's a start. The article's next section, which presently begins with Manson's declaration, "Now is the time for Helter Skelter," should probably start with something about the Hinman murder — but again, I'll leave that to others.
The article might also benefit from the placement — somewhere — of at least three quotes. The first is from Watson himself ( Chapter 1 of his autobiography) — and makes clear his condition in the murders' aftermath:
The other two quotes I don't have at hand. They are from My Life with Charles Manson — the Paul Watkins autobiography that is hard to obtain. Some years ago, I got it briefly from a library. One sentence I remember was something like this:
The other sentence was the description Watkins gave of Tex Watson when Manson and he, Watson, arrived at the desert ranches not long after the murders. It was something like this:
Again — my fellow editors: All of this is merely a suggestion — and should not be relied upon as factual; I'm going from memory. To repeat: I personally can not work on this article — but I can offer that. JohnBonaccorsi ( talk) 16:41, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
PS The conversion of vehicles into dune buggies for sale is reported, I think, in The Family, by Ed Sanders. Sanders speaks of a kind of assembly-line that was running at Spahn Ranch. Those of you familiar with the story will recall that on August 16, 1969, a week after the murders, the Family was arrested, at Spahn, as a ring that was stealing vehicles and converting them into dune buggies. Sanders also speaks of some dune buggies that the Family bought. I forget what he says was the source of the money. My reason for writing, above, that "some of the buggies were kept for the the Family's use" is that that's the only thing I can figure out. The Family had Manson's "command buggy," for instance, at Spahn Ranch — and then stolen buggies were found with the Family at the desert ranches during the October '69 raids (which led to the solving of the murders). That's what I figure: They were keeping some buggies for themselves — and selling others for cash. It was, I might say, a typical Manson enterprise: parasitism (in the form of theft) semi-disguised as industry. — Anyway — this can be found in Sanders. JohnBonaccorsi ( talk) 21:01, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
The bit about Watson recieving Jesus as his savior probably doesn't belong in the lead. Also, it should be rewritten in a more NPOV style...as is it sounds a little too devotional for an encyclopedia. PurpleChez ( talk) 20:52, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
I removed the personal characterization. From a personal standpoint, I believe it's credible to doubt his sincerity as to being rehabilitated, finding spirituality, etc..., however, I don't believe the manner in which that was expressed in the "Later Years" section is within the scope of a Wikipedia main article, WP:NOR, WP:NPV and including in how it was related to the release-of-tapes event. I believe it would be proper to include statements pertaining to such doubts, but they should be of reliable sources other than an editor of the WP article, for example news sources re: testimony at his parole hearings might properly address that. - Gillwill2000 ( talk) 21:48, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
Watson is a convicted mass murderer. This is the only reason he is a notable individual with a page on Wikipedia. The article should start by saying that. The reference to is having been a member of the Manson family "community" and its "alleged" criminal nature is ludicrous. Change suggested to fix this - the article should start: Charles "Tex" Watson is a convicted mass murderer. (link to article about mass murder - his acts fit the FBI definition according to that article). He was a member of the "Manson Family" (link to relevant article). Remove reference to "community" and "alleged" criminality entirely. — Preceding unsigned comment added by PTSN ( talk • contribs) 11:19, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: page moved to Tex Watson. Ixfd64 ( talk) 19:27, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
Charles "Tex" Watson →
Tex Watson – or
Charles Denton Watson. Per
WP:NICKNAME: "Notable distinctions can be explained in the article, but avoid (for example) adding a nickname, or a contracted version of the original first name(s) in quotes between first and last name. For example:
Bill Clinton, not
William "Bill" Clinton.
" Also see
Whitey Bulger, not
James "Whitey" Bulger. --Relisted.
Armbrust
The Homunculus 21:28, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
BarrelProof (
talk) 17:11, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Tex Watson. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 15:27, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
Hello. At WP:OTRS ticket:2016022810008942 a request was made for changes to this article. This is a private archived ticket. I am recording where it is, but it is not for public access.
The requested changes were presented as a printout of the 16 February 2016 version of this Wikipedia article, annotated with handwritten notes by the subject of the article. A copyright release was sent with the notes. The scan of the notes is uploaded to Commons.
Anyone who wishes to communicate further about the matter with questions or comments should do so here on this public talk page. Blue Rasberry (talk) 15:24, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
WP:BLP says:
I am therefore removing contentious material such as claims of crimes committed where there is no reliable source cited that verifies a conviction ie drug dealing etc..-- — Keithbob • Talk • 17:26, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
Is this a reliable source? [1] Who is the author? Is he a recognized expert? Who is the publisher? Comments?-- — Keithbob • Talk • 17:26, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
moved for clarity and visibility. John from Idegon ( talk) 14:04, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
Why was my edits removed? I've FBI files and Watsons book to back them up
The Gman49 (
talk) 12:56, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
I have just added a link under External Links from Daily Mail regarding Tex Watson's letter to wikipedia demanding some changes in this article in wikipedia about him. I appreciate it if admins confirm and acknowledge this letter and if changes are/were necessary and if the article has been amended. With many thanks. Gharouni Talk 01:07, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
CieloDrive.com?? How did this get by BLP guidelines? HammerFilmFan ( talk) 03:13, 14 March 2019 (UTC)
There are multiple citations linking to an online version of his autobiography, "Will You Die For Me?". Considering that the book has been published several times over the past decades, would it not be far preferable to cite one of these print versions? My intention is to consolidate them myself using the 1978 edition published by Fleming H. Revell company, unless there are major objections. Haole.Longpig ( talk) 21:13, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Tex Watson article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article has been
mentioned by multiple media organizations:
|
Big section on his use of speed - seems like too much info re: this topic. 71.90.92.4 ( talk) 18:06, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
Is it a Wikipedia policy that articles must be written in some sort of pseudo-English? A couple of hours ago I corrected the illiterate expression "became disinterested in school" to "lost interest in school," and now it's been reverted. Whoever did this must also have become disinterested in school at an early age. -- I just made a few more improvements to the languate of the section on "Early Life." without changing the content. If those edits are reverted too, I'll have a better understanding of why this site is as deeply flawed as it is. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.174.118.225 ( talk • contribs)
This is ridiculous. I can see the point about the self published source (not that I think it makes it unreliable when backed up by the other source) but the TV story definitely exists and I'm sure noone would argue that it's been fabricated by some YouTube user. It happens to be on YouTube and yes, that may be a copyvio, but since I can't find the exact date it aired I can't make a proper reference to it without linking to the video. If I knew the date I could make a reference without linking to the video and I don't think anyone would object. The actual source is the news story itself, not YouTube. I restored that source but I don't have the time or energy to fight over this so if you want to revert it again, go ahead but I think it's utterly ridiculous to remove a reliable source just because it's been watched on YouTube. That's certainly not helping to improve the article, and if it gets reverted again I hope some other user agrees with me and restores it. Entheta ( talk) 22:56, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
Here's the issue. There has been a lot of clamping down on sources like mansonfamilytoday.info, etc. because they contain unofficial and in some cases, possibly, illegally obtained content, thus they are being removed on a widespread basis. This is the basis for the issues with YouTube. It has nothing to do with whether anyone thinks it's been fabricated, but does have everything to do with the fact that the television program A Current Affair is a copyrighted and owned product. As you said, it may be a copyright violation, and that, for the YouTube ref, is the problem. We aren't permitted to disgregard that something may be a copyright violation and in fact, people get blocked for disregarding that. It isn't ridiculous to insist on valid, reliable sources. You're right, the news story is the source, but by using the link to YouTube, it asserts that the clip is legally on YouTube. It can be sourced to the news story itself and it would be fine, but using a YouTube copy of the program isn't fine, that isn't valid. But if you aren't inclined to find the proper sourcing for it, it isn't acceptable to just stick in a YouTube link that also violates copyright law. It has nothing to do with whether the clip is watched on YouTube, it is all about that YouTube, or the YouTube uploader, has no legal right to post portions of a copyrighted television program. If it's important enough to the article to be in it, then it's important enough to be validly sourced. I'm sorry if you find this frustrating, but if you pursue the question with WP:RS/N or an administrator, you're going to get the same answer. Find a way to source it to the original broadcast, but the fact is, we can't post an admittedly copyright-violating clip. References aren't a convenience, they are asserting the validity of the statement. Alternately, the actual parole hearing can be used if the details can be found. There certainly must be something somewhere in news sources or publications that would support this without resorting to a convenience link to YouTube. Wildhartlivie ( talk) 23:27, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
editors please be patient, this article was a mess with an almost complete omission of Watson's actions in the murders as well as dead links to a few websites. Fixing this will take a few days as I find books and references. Thanks. Catherine Huebscher ( talk) 21:12, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
Well what was up was what I'd want if i was this guys poor kids. The article I found simple skipped over the murders and his actions and had a huge section that was a thinly veiled expose of speed as an excuse for his actions. The cut and paste will all be reworked and, agreed its from only so so sourced material but I believe it to be true under the first amendment and I'll back it with a wide variety of cites, not just Helter Skelter. Catherine Huebscher ( talk) 23:00, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
At 00:32 and 00:33, 9 November 2009, the article's section re Watson's use of "speed" on the murder nights was revised — shortened. The first edit summary was as follows:
The second edit summary was this:
The first edit reduced passages that had been quoted from Watson's autobiography — passages in which Watson reported his use of speed on the nights of crime. It also reduced the size of a passage quoted from an October 1969 Los Angeles Magazine article. The magazine passage — whose remainder was eliminated in the second edit — is what was characterized, in the second edit summary, as "pointless and non-sequiter" [sic]. It reported on the possibility of a connection between speed and crime.
As for the statements in the edit summaries:
In a post of 23:00, 8 (?) November 2009, on the present talk header (in the entry headed "Article revision and clean up"), the editor who revised the speed section has repeated what is said in her edit summary. She writes that the "huge section" was "a thinly veiled expose of speed as an excuse for [Watson's] actions." Some persons you just can't fool.
"Sequitur," by the way, ends with "ur," not "er." It's a Latin verb, not a noun. JohnBonaccorsi ( talk) 09:53, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
I could actually care less about spelling errors in a revision line but thanks. I'm also typing with a baby in one hand. Honestly, the entire section about speeds effects does not belong in this article. All of Tex's speed claims should merit only about one paragraph, he's obviously not a trustworthy source! Catherine Huebscher ( talk) 2:54, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
"In those thirty-plus years, nobody, to my knowledge, has reported on the speed use. I have seen no reference to it in the many sources I've consulted in the course of quite a bit of work on some Wikipedia Manson material" Perhaps because Watson is using it as an excuse or another smoke screen to go along with his Christian life? I think the veracity of anything he writes could be called into question. Because almost no one read that book and its more of a biased novelty book then a clear look at the crimes? Include his quote but an excessive section on speed, as the above editor has pointed out does not make sense here. The article is about Tex unborn baby killer Watson who is the only source who said he used speed aside from perhaps Susan Atkins who was nearly tried for perjury. Nowhere in helter skelter, the definitive Manson book, could I locate, any recounting of their usage of speed on the nights of the murders as Tex mentioned. The article you quote belongs in the main meth page or should be condensed. And please drop the English lessons and/or critiquing my responses to you -you've made your point and it is very boring. Stick to the article. Catherine Huebscher ( talk) 1:54, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
Ms. Huebscher — I apologize for my harshness. Allow me to say a few more things about the value of the speed section. When you arrived at the Tex Watson article, you saw that it said almost nothing about the Tate-LaBianca murders. Evidently, you regarded that as evidence of a "whitewash." It was probably simply evidence that the editors, including me, who have attempted to whip some of Wikipedia’s Manson material into shape have not given much attention to the Watson article in particular. I am pretty sure that — in addition to the speed section — the only passages that I personally have contributed to the article have been two — one that explained Watson's first meeting with Manson and one that established the record re Watson's "I'm the devil" statement; but even those were added by me only to correct gross errors. A full, clear, and thoroughly-footnoted account of the crimes — including Watson's part therein — may be found at the Charles Manson article.
When I added the speed section, I anticipated the criticism it has received from you and another editor, on the present talk header. I knew that some persons would think it disproportionately long — if not altogether irrelevant — but I posted it anyway — because it is important — because, as I have said, the countless Manson reports, all over the internet and everywhere else, recycle — usually inaccurately — the same old material. One of Wikipedia's strengths, in my view, is that it enables ordinary persons to put before the world pieces of knowledge that have been overlooked by the cognoscenti. Possibly, some writer or magazine editor or filmmaker or other such person will one day come to Wikipedia, spot the article's speed section, and see in it an important something never really brought to the world's attention. In addition, the speed section, as crafted by me, was one of the article's few passages that was properly footnoted. Just about the whole of the article's remainder — except for the one or two other passages that I added — was, if I’m not mistaken, footnote-free (as, not incidentally, are most of your contributions). Because you reflexively thought the speed section intended to absolve Watson of wrongdoing, you deleted, in short, one of the article's few passages that had been presented with care.
As you see, I have reinserted the speed section. Maybe you will be inclined to leave it in this time. I have, by the way, taken a look at your blog — and have seen your photographs. Congratulations on your beauty and vivacity. They are rare enough. JohnBonaccorsi ( talk) 04:22, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
Thanks no problem at all, I had no intention of being rude myself, I apologize as well. I now realize that the Manson articles (I should have known this...) carry strong opinions and emotions along with them. Perhaps if the article was constructed better the section would fit in? Is that what you mean?If so that makes sense to me. Watson's article should be much more lengthy as he's next in line after Manson and perhaps alongside Atkins for the amount of havoc he wrecked. So yes leave it in and make the article much more detailed with conflicting accounts as well as trial documents etc. Catherine Huebscher ( talk) 21:00, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
As I said in the preceding section — one contributes to Wikipedia where one has the energy and the time. I personally can not work on the Watson article, but one thing that I can see the article probably needs is a section or two between "Early Life" and the account of the murders. What follows is a very-rough suggestion for such material. It definitely should not be regarded as accurate; I'm simply going from memory. I won't even attempt to footnote it — but I'd say most of it probably comes from Chapter 6 through Chapter 10 — and so on — of Watson's autobiography. I also haven't entered all of the necessary internal links — such as to "Beach Boys." The material starts with what is presently the final sentence of "Early Life":
Okay, my fellow editors — again: That's pretty rough — and completely un-footnoted — and probably only semi-accurate; but it's a start. The article's next section, which presently begins with Manson's declaration, "Now is the time for Helter Skelter," should probably start with something about the Hinman murder — but again, I'll leave that to others.
The article might also benefit from the placement — somewhere — of at least three quotes. The first is from Watson himself ( Chapter 1 of his autobiography) — and makes clear his condition in the murders' aftermath:
The other two quotes I don't have at hand. They are from My Life with Charles Manson — the Paul Watkins autobiography that is hard to obtain. Some years ago, I got it briefly from a library. One sentence I remember was something like this:
The other sentence was the description Watkins gave of Tex Watson when Manson and he, Watson, arrived at the desert ranches not long after the murders. It was something like this:
Again — my fellow editors: All of this is merely a suggestion — and should not be relied upon as factual; I'm going from memory. To repeat: I personally can not work on this article — but I can offer that. JohnBonaccorsi ( talk) 16:41, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
PS The conversion of vehicles into dune buggies for sale is reported, I think, in The Family, by Ed Sanders. Sanders speaks of a kind of assembly-line that was running at Spahn Ranch. Those of you familiar with the story will recall that on August 16, 1969, a week after the murders, the Family was arrested, at Spahn, as a ring that was stealing vehicles and converting them into dune buggies. Sanders also speaks of some dune buggies that the Family bought. I forget what he says was the source of the money. My reason for writing, above, that "some of the buggies were kept for the the Family's use" is that that's the only thing I can figure out. The Family had Manson's "command buggy," for instance, at Spahn Ranch — and then stolen buggies were found with the Family at the desert ranches during the October '69 raids (which led to the solving of the murders). That's what I figure: They were keeping some buggies for themselves — and selling others for cash. It was, I might say, a typical Manson enterprise: parasitism (in the form of theft) semi-disguised as industry. — Anyway — this can be found in Sanders. JohnBonaccorsi ( talk) 21:01, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
The bit about Watson recieving Jesus as his savior probably doesn't belong in the lead. Also, it should be rewritten in a more NPOV style...as is it sounds a little too devotional for an encyclopedia. PurpleChez ( talk) 20:52, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
I removed the personal characterization. From a personal standpoint, I believe it's credible to doubt his sincerity as to being rehabilitated, finding spirituality, etc..., however, I don't believe the manner in which that was expressed in the "Later Years" section is within the scope of a Wikipedia main article, WP:NOR, WP:NPV and including in how it was related to the release-of-tapes event. I believe it would be proper to include statements pertaining to such doubts, but they should be of reliable sources other than an editor of the WP article, for example news sources re: testimony at his parole hearings might properly address that. - Gillwill2000 ( talk) 21:48, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
Watson is a convicted mass murderer. This is the only reason he is a notable individual with a page on Wikipedia. The article should start by saying that. The reference to is having been a member of the Manson family "community" and its "alleged" criminal nature is ludicrous. Change suggested to fix this - the article should start: Charles "Tex" Watson is a convicted mass murderer. (link to article about mass murder - his acts fit the FBI definition according to that article). He was a member of the "Manson Family" (link to relevant article). Remove reference to "community" and "alleged" criminality entirely. — Preceding unsigned comment added by PTSN ( talk • contribs) 11:19, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: page moved to Tex Watson. Ixfd64 ( talk) 19:27, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
Charles "Tex" Watson →
Tex Watson – or
Charles Denton Watson. Per
WP:NICKNAME: "Notable distinctions can be explained in the article, but avoid (for example) adding a nickname, or a contracted version of the original first name(s) in quotes between first and last name. For example:
Bill Clinton, not
William "Bill" Clinton.
" Also see
Whitey Bulger, not
James "Whitey" Bulger. --Relisted.
Armbrust
The Homunculus 21:28, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
BarrelProof (
talk) 17:11, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Tex Watson. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 15:27, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
Hello. At WP:OTRS ticket:2016022810008942 a request was made for changes to this article. This is a private archived ticket. I am recording where it is, but it is not for public access.
The requested changes were presented as a printout of the 16 February 2016 version of this Wikipedia article, annotated with handwritten notes by the subject of the article. A copyright release was sent with the notes. The scan of the notes is uploaded to Commons.
Anyone who wishes to communicate further about the matter with questions or comments should do so here on this public talk page. Blue Rasberry (talk) 15:24, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
WP:BLP says:
I am therefore removing contentious material such as claims of crimes committed where there is no reliable source cited that verifies a conviction ie drug dealing etc..-- — Keithbob • Talk • 17:26, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
Is this a reliable source? [1] Who is the author? Is he a recognized expert? Who is the publisher? Comments?-- — Keithbob • Talk • 17:26, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
moved for clarity and visibility. John from Idegon ( talk) 14:04, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
Why was my edits removed? I've FBI files and Watsons book to back them up
The Gman49 (
talk) 12:56, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
I have just added a link under External Links from Daily Mail regarding Tex Watson's letter to wikipedia demanding some changes in this article in wikipedia about him. I appreciate it if admins confirm and acknowledge this letter and if changes are/were necessary and if the article has been amended. With many thanks. Gharouni Talk 01:07, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
CieloDrive.com?? How did this get by BLP guidelines? HammerFilmFan ( talk) 03:13, 14 March 2019 (UTC)
There are multiple citations linking to an online version of his autobiography, "Will You Die For Me?". Considering that the book has been published several times over the past decades, would it not be far preferable to cite one of these print versions? My intention is to consolidate them myself using the 1978 edition published by Fleming H. Revell company, unless there are major objections. Haole.Longpig ( talk) 21:13, 11 July 2022 (UTC)