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On 23 March 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved to Samuel T. Francis. The result of the discussion was no consensus. |
Never married 57 year old Christian conservative who railed against pornography, sodomy and miscegenation...There has to be more information here. The man had no personal life? He never even dated? No parents? No church he attended? Where is the rest of the biography here? 173.117.169.78 ( talk) 11:54, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
The second link in "external links," the one to samfrancis.net, no longer functions, as the domain name has expired (presumably, whoever owned it did not renew it). Does anyone have another link to his articles published in Chronicles? If so, could you add it, please? Godfrey Daniel ( talk) 21:34, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
Does anyone, such as maybe the original anonymous author, have a citation for this quotation? It doesn't Google. - Willmcw 01:28, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC) The Anti-Defamation League branded Francis "an advocate of well mannered white supremacy",...
Thanks for finding it. Here it is: Another featured speaker at AR conferences has been Sam Francis, a former Washington Times columnist who was dismissed in September 1995 after his racial views were publicized by conservative writer Dinesh D'Souza. Francis has since become a writer, editor and lecturer for another outpost of well-mannered white supremacy, the Council of Conservative Citizens (CCC), and an outspoken advocate of separation of the races. In a presentation at the 1994 AR convention, Francis stated that white Americans must reassert our identity and our solidarity, and we must do so in explicitly racial terms through the articulation of a racial consciousness as whites....The civilization we as whites created in Europe and America could not have developed apart from the genetic endowment of the creating people, nor is there any reason to believe that the civilization can be successfully transmitted to a different people.
It seems to me that the CCC is the "outpost of well-mannered white supremacy," so it isn't a literal quote to say that Francis is their advocate, but a rather a logical surmise. We should leave the quote but drop the quotation marks. - Willmcw 02:09, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Let's cut back on the lengthy block quotes. This is an encyclopedia article, and sohold be succinct. - Will Beback 18:13, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
The problem is when dealing with a controversial figure like this, there's no real NPOV summary of what the guy says, so you have to let him speak for himself. Also, in the case of Francis, the quotes themselves become areas of contention, as in "he said X, therefore he is a racist/sexist/homophobe/whatever." Yakuman 19:45, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
There are seventeen quotes from hard copy sources, which aren't widely available. At the magic number of 32k, this is not terribly long. Don't worry about it. Yakuman 22:08, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Could someone edit "Machiavellian" to link to Niccolo Machiavelli? "Machiavellian" is a term describing a ruthless schemer, deriving from a common misconception of the controversial and misunderstood principles Machiavelli actually believed in and advocated. The way it is makes it look like Francis was a nasty character rather who would to anything to get ahead rather than a student of Machiavelli. I'd change it myself, but my browser is too small and it would cut the page in half. 05:26, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Is there any truth to the story that Sam had a death bed conversion to catholicism?
"Nationally syndicated" in where? Canada? Scotland? Australia? The lead needs to locate this man in history and geography, not just politics, to give the political details any context. 87.113.24.173 ( talk) 23:49, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
An RfC: Which descriptor, if any, can be added in front of Southern Poverty Law Center when referenced in other articles? has been posted at the Southern Poverty Law Center talk page. Your participation is welcomed. – MrX 17:16, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
August 4 2018 Vox Day (Darkstream) live stream on YouTube was complaining that a fellow conservative columnist and commentator, Ben Shapiro, was far from an original thinking critic of the status quo narratives and presented Samuel Francis as an improved such intellect, writer, and speaker by stark comparison. However, a YouTube examination of Samuel Francis from 2000 or video recordings of a speech given so shows that he did not adequately balance his abstract political thinking with the practical health and appearance aspects of his life due to Francis' being a good deal overweight and in so doing being prone to its ill effects such as cardio vascular disease, etc. Can any of these two videos be referenced in the article? Oldspammer ( talk) 20:40, 21 April 2019 (UTC)
Merge Proposal and / or
Redirect.
Please do not modify it.
The result of the request for the Proposed Merger of {requested article} into this talk page's article was:
Consensus reached per policy arguments – Awaiting Merge.
This neologism is not widely used outside of its original author. It would be sufficient to cover it there, where content has already been merged. It should only be split out in summary style when warranted by an overabundance of secondary, independent source coverage. czar 23:14, 8 June 2019 (UTC)
I have to agree with @ Czar: it's meaningless to argue about it without citing any source. Without an overabundance of secondary, independent source coverage, it doesn't warrant its own page. If you believe it's notable in its own way, then cite your sources and put your money where your mouth is. Either way, I hope other users can come in and state their thoughts.-- 79.19.28.124 ( talk) 13:34, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
Please do not modify it.
Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
A copy of this template can be found here.
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 08:07, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: no consensus. ( closed by non-admin page mover) BilledMammal ( talk) 04:15, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
Sam Francis (writer) → Samuel T. Francis – Many of the more recent works use this name. Jfhutson ( talk) 00:47, 23 March 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. NW1223< Howl at me• My hunts> 14:00, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
Reliable secondary sources establish that Francis was a white supremacist, and that's what was most notable about his writings. Any labels attempting to soften the image of this dead writer are just whitewashing. Note that "white nationalist" is just a marketing term that white supremacists have employed in recent years to distance themselves from the original description, so it's effectively the same thing. Fred Zepelin ( talk) 19:41, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
It is requested that a photograph be
included in this article to
improve its quality.
The external tool WordPress Openverse may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites. |
On 23 March 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved to Samuel T. Francis. The result of the discussion was no consensus. |
Never married 57 year old Christian conservative who railed against pornography, sodomy and miscegenation...There has to be more information here. The man had no personal life? He never even dated? No parents? No church he attended? Where is the rest of the biography here? 173.117.169.78 ( talk) 11:54, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
The second link in "external links," the one to samfrancis.net, no longer functions, as the domain name has expired (presumably, whoever owned it did not renew it). Does anyone have another link to his articles published in Chronicles? If so, could you add it, please? Godfrey Daniel ( talk) 21:34, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
Does anyone, such as maybe the original anonymous author, have a citation for this quotation? It doesn't Google. - Willmcw 01:28, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC) The Anti-Defamation League branded Francis "an advocate of well mannered white supremacy",...
Thanks for finding it. Here it is: Another featured speaker at AR conferences has been Sam Francis, a former Washington Times columnist who was dismissed in September 1995 after his racial views were publicized by conservative writer Dinesh D'Souza. Francis has since become a writer, editor and lecturer for another outpost of well-mannered white supremacy, the Council of Conservative Citizens (CCC), and an outspoken advocate of separation of the races. In a presentation at the 1994 AR convention, Francis stated that white Americans must reassert our identity and our solidarity, and we must do so in explicitly racial terms through the articulation of a racial consciousness as whites....The civilization we as whites created in Europe and America could not have developed apart from the genetic endowment of the creating people, nor is there any reason to believe that the civilization can be successfully transmitted to a different people.
It seems to me that the CCC is the "outpost of well-mannered white supremacy," so it isn't a literal quote to say that Francis is their advocate, but a rather a logical surmise. We should leave the quote but drop the quotation marks. - Willmcw 02:09, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Let's cut back on the lengthy block quotes. This is an encyclopedia article, and sohold be succinct. - Will Beback 18:13, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
The problem is when dealing with a controversial figure like this, there's no real NPOV summary of what the guy says, so you have to let him speak for himself. Also, in the case of Francis, the quotes themselves become areas of contention, as in "he said X, therefore he is a racist/sexist/homophobe/whatever." Yakuman 19:45, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
There are seventeen quotes from hard copy sources, which aren't widely available. At the magic number of 32k, this is not terribly long. Don't worry about it. Yakuman 22:08, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Could someone edit "Machiavellian" to link to Niccolo Machiavelli? "Machiavellian" is a term describing a ruthless schemer, deriving from a common misconception of the controversial and misunderstood principles Machiavelli actually believed in and advocated. The way it is makes it look like Francis was a nasty character rather who would to anything to get ahead rather than a student of Machiavelli. I'd change it myself, but my browser is too small and it would cut the page in half. 05:26, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Is there any truth to the story that Sam had a death bed conversion to catholicism?
"Nationally syndicated" in where? Canada? Scotland? Australia? The lead needs to locate this man in history and geography, not just politics, to give the political details any context. 87.113.24.173 ( talk) 23:49, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
An RfC: Which descriptor, if any, can be added in front of Southern Poverty Law Center when referenced in other articles? has been posted at the Southern Poverty Law Center talk page. Your participation is welcomed. – MrX 17:16, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
August 4 2018 Vox Day (Darkstream) live stream on YouTube was complaining that a fellow conservative columnist and commentator, Ben Shapiro, was far from an original thinking critic of the status quo narratives and presented Samuel Francis as an improved such intellect, writer, and speaker by stark comparison. However, a YouTube examination of Samuel Francis from 2000 or video recordings of a speech given so shows that he did not adequately balance his abstract political thinking with the practical health and appearance aspects of his life due to Francis' being a good deal overweight and in so doing being prone to its ill effects such as cardio vascular disease, etc. Can any of these two videos be referenced in the article? Oldspammer ( talk) 20:40, 21 April 2019 (UTC)
Merge Proposal and / or
Redirect.
Please do not modify it.
The result of the request for the Proposed Merger of {requested article} into this talk page's article was:
Consensus reached per policy arguments – Awaiting Merge.
This neologism is not widely used outside of its original author. It would be sufficient to cover it there, where content has already been merged. It should only be split out in summary style when warranted by an overabundance of secondary, independent source coverage. czar 23:14, 8 June 2019 (UTC)
I have to agree with @ Czar: it's meaningless to argue about it without citing any source. Without an overabundance of secondary, independent source coverage, it doesn't warrant its own page. If you believe it's notable in its own way, then cite your sources and put your money where your mouth is. Either way, I hope other users can come in and state their thoughts.-- 79.19.28.124 ( talk) 13:34, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
Please do not modify it.
Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
A copy of this template can be found here.
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 08:07, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: no consensus. ( closed by non-admin page mover) BilledMammal ( talk) 04:15, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
Sam Francis (writer) → Samuel T. Francis – Many of the more recent works use this name. Jfhutson ( talk) 00:47, 23 March 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. NW1223< Howl at me• My hunts> 14:00, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
Reliable secondary sources establish that Francis was a white supremacist, and that's what was most notable about his writings. Any labels attempting to soften the image of this dead writer are just whitewashing. Note that "white nationalist" is just a marketing term that white supremacists have employed in recent years to distance themselves from the original description, so it's effectively the same thing. Fred Zepelin ( talk) 19:41, 1 April 2024 (UTC)