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Even though most of the resources say that Saladin was Kurdish, there are still some other resources that says he was Arabic or Turkish. So there is no definite origin but Wikipedia (well, in some versions of this page other possible origins are included too) completely ignores that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.253.112.56 ( talk) 20:33, 20 November 2016 (UTC)
The opinion of nationalist Turks and Arabs does not matter. Saladin's origin is documented very well and no discussion is possible about his Kurdish origins; which is a fact. YOu can have an opinion about that fact, but it won't make him, or the Ayyubid dynasty as a whole, non-Kurdish. I am glad this article is protected because Turkish nationalists have editted a lot of articles in an attempt to Turkify history, people, and things that aren't and never were Turkish. It's pathetic.
Have a nice day. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.181.122.63 ( talk) 22:06, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
In book Fawed Al Jalieyah Fi Faraed Al Naseriah (In Arabic: الفوائد الجلیه فی الفرائد الناصریة) : [Original manuscript is in the british museum, Document number 557] Which is the collection of letters and poems of Sladin's nephew the Ayoubite King Al Malek Nasser Bin Malek Mo'azam Isa Bin Malek Adel Bin Ayoub writen by his son Majd al Din Abu Mohammed Known by title Almalek Alamjad Al ayoubi
[1], He Rejects the Affiliation to
Kurds which being calimed even in their time, saying:
"
Ibn Athir the scholar says: Najm Aldin Ayoub (Saladin's Grandfather) is originaly from Duwain in Azerbijan, His origins is from Kurdish tribe Rawadyeh, which is the most honorable Kurdish tribe , Now this is what is widespread among many people, and I didn't hear any of our family elders that were in my time to admit this [Kurdish root])
He continues :
I asked the Mola Al Malek Amjad Taqi Al Din Abal Fadhl Al Abas Bin Soltan Malik Al Adil (Ayoubite king and Sladin's nephew) Did you hear your father or any of your elder brothers to admit this roots? He answered : I didn't hear any of them relate themselves to Kurds
He adds:
In our familly this is a well known fact that our grandfather ( Najm Al-din Ayoub) setteld near Kurds and took wives from them, and they become like Uncles to us not anything else, just like our relationships with Turks as some of our ancector's mothers were Turkish
He then says:
From the evidences that proves that we are not Kurds is that the two scholars Qazi bah Al Din Bin Shadad and Emad Al Din Katib Al Isfahany were specialist to Almalik Naser (ie Saladin) and The Emad Al Din Isfahany had known Najm Aldin ayoub very well long before when he was the governor of Tikrit, and these two scholars wrote about our origins and they would object this Denial of Kurdish roots if it was not the truth, and if Najm Al Din was connected to them ( Kurds) they would sure noticed that
At the end of his talks he says:
And that family tree that Hasan bin Qarib bin Omran Al Hirashi the scholar wrote and gave to my grandfather Almalik Al Mo'azam [ Saladin's nephew the governor of damascus] which connected our roots to Ali bin Ahmad Al Meri Mamduh Abi Tayeb (The Arab Tribs of Mara bin 'Ouf from Quraish) was accepted by my grand father and he didn't reject it
and he said:
And I'm inclined to this family tree since my grandfather [Saladin's nephew] with his knowledge and wisdom of ancesrty and arab tribes and Jurisprudence accepted it and he was always in company with his father [Saladin's brother] and had known people who saw and known his grandfather [ie Najm al Din Ayoub] so he is the most reliable person in this field
Now you see Ayoubite kings and Sladin's Grandchildrens themselves Denied the "Kurdish Roots" that were Claimed even in their era , Laszlo Panaflex Add these to article and spread the word of Slasin's Grandchildren that they were not "Kurds". Ted hamiltun ( talk) 05:39, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
References
This wiki should add these quotes!! MWahaiibii ( talk) 19:40, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
The Third Crusade section is a mess. I would like to clean it up with some edits. There was never a battle near Ascalon between Richard and Saladin's forces. Also, the siege and battle of Jaffa of 1192 are not mentioned. Also, the section seems to imply that Richard made an attempt to capture Jerusalem, which he did not, he only made maneuvers near Jerusalem but never actually besieged the city. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hutin5432 ( talk • contribs) 01:05, 28 October 2016 (UTC)
OK, I've added some updates to that section complete with citations to several scholarly sources. I think the section is much improved in terms of accuracy and presentation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hutin5432 ( talk • contribs) 01:41, 28 October 2016 (UTC)
Some time ago, I added the Ash'ari school of theology to the infobox of this article. The references for this are taken from the following texts:
This was removed by @ Sakimonk:. I fail to see why given that this is useful information. In particular, modern terrorist groups such as Al-Qaeda consider Saladin to be there hero (see for example Strategy: The Deep Battle Against America by By Michael W. S. Ryan [Columbia University Press]) despite the fact that his school of theology was actually very different. Perhaps this should be expanded in the article but I fail to see why it should be removed entirely from the infobox. RookTaker ( talk) 07:53, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
Should we also add his madhab in the infobox as well? Blizzio ( talk) 15:09, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
I'm not sure if the Syrian invasion section of Saladin's article is just wrong or badly formatted, but it's currently discussing events in May 1175 before those in April. — LlywelynII 13:19, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
Please someone correct that nonsense in 'Wars against Crusaders' section. Some joker has linked Iranian province Adharbayjan (Azerbaijan) with the modern country Azerbaijan (Republic) which didn't even exist in the 10th century. Yes, its funny..
'However, since then, Masʻūd had allied himself with the powerful governor of Azerbaijan and Jibal, who in 1185..' Thank you. -- Alecx ( talk) 20:59, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 13:59, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
This has become a point of contention again. The long-standing image in the infobox seems to have been deleted recently, so now there's a free-for-all about which image should replace it. The two reasonable images, in my opinion, are File:Cristofano dell'altissimo, saladino, ante 1568 - Serie Gioviana.jpg (mid-16th century) and File:Portrait of Saladin (before A.D. 1185; short).jpg (1185 CE). I favor the latter because it was drawn in Saladin's time (he died in 1193) and was done by a Muslim contemporary, Ismail al-Jazari. The 16th-century photo was done five centuries after Saladin's death by an Italian painter. In the Italian painting, Saladin looks bewildered and is wearing a multi-horned turban, which looks strange. Let's find a consensus here about which of the two images (or other proposed images) are best for the infobox. If we can't find a consensus here or there is little response, an RfC should be opened to settle the matter. -- Al Ameer ( talk) 19:13, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
I restored the al-Jazari picture to the infobox per the agreement and/or reasoning given here by Kansas Bear, Alexis and myself. -- Al Ameer ( talk) 22:34, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
Normally I'd prefer the contemporary image over a early modern one. The fact that the caption expresses uncertainty, and comes from a book over a century old, makes me think we should be wary of using it at all. If someone can find a modern and reliable source that refers to this particular image, and associates it with Saladin, I'd totally support it as the lead image. If not I don't think we should use it.-- Brianann MacAmhlaidh ( talk) 00:59, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
@ Al Ameer son: Found some commentary on these images http://mamluk.uchicago.edu/MamlukStudiesReview_XVIII_2014-15.pdf p.207 and the pages after it. In fact you can read the whole article about the Ayyuid image in Mamluk clothes. Alexis Ivanov ( talk) 18:56, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
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I'd like to request adding the recently published magazine article to further reading. I believe it will assist those doing research on Saladin's campaign of 1187.
Welsh, William E. "Saladin's Battle for Jerusalem," All About History, June 2016, Issue 40, pp. 54-61.
Update: 7-4-16
To whom it may concern:
I made the request above about adding Welsh's magazine article, and I hereby withdraw the request. I apologize for the intrusion.
HistorianVictory HistorianVictory ( talk) 08:15, 4 July 2016 (UTC)
HistorianVictory ( talk) 08:39, 3 July 2016 (UTC)
I requset that to add his orgin (kurdish) in there infobox. Ibrahim aziz ( talk) 15:30, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
There is no doubt that Tikrit (the birth city of Saladin) is an Iraqi city. Moreover, Tikrit nowadays is the capital city Saladin province/governor, which is the official name of an Iraqi province (since 1976). Tikrit Hence, it would be more honest if you add "Tikrit (modern-day Iraq)" in addition to the past Abbasid Caliphate in the "Born" city portal. The current version includes Upper Mesopotamia, which does not provide clear information about the location because Upper Mesopotamia is not a country, nor an official province at all. Please, most of the Iraqis will be disappointed if that lack of clarity would still there. Thank you.
/info/en/?search=Tikrit /info/en/?search=Saladin_Governorate — Preceding unsigned comment added by 180.216.53.166 ( talk) 17:37, 13 May 2017 (UTC)
wow — Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.216.37.110 ( talk) 01:23, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
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Talk about his uncle and his relationship 50.193.223.217 ( talk) 21:48, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
if he did hail from the The Rawadid tribe (a Kurdicized tribe of arab origins), doesn't that make him an arab? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Arabos ( talk • contribs) 06:40, 29 March 2018 (UTC)
Clearly, no !—> Farawahar ( talk) 09:14, 31 March 2018 (UTC)
The article that is hyperlinked to Saladin's 12th child says that he is not the child of Saladin.
It is not clear enough that Saladin is kurdish; because there are many sources that cite saladin as Arabic or Turkish, so I think this should be mentioned. — Preceding unsigned comment added by الرشيد ( talk • contribs) 17:30, 11 February 2019 (UTC)
It is actually very clear that he was of Kurdish ethnicity. There is literally no doubt about this. Sources mentioning him as anything else other than 100% Kurdish, are, 100% of the time, racist, chauvinist, backward Turkish and Arab sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:A210:2483:C380:D5BB:8DC8:14ED:D757 ( talk) 20:43, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
Saladin ruled centuries before the Ottomans set foot into Anatolia from Mongolia. How on earth would he have been a Turk? It was confirmed he's a Kurd. 70.29.14.147 ( talk) 05:25, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
The name is given as "An-Nasir Salah ad-Din Yusuf ibn Ayyub" in English and as "صلاح الدين يوسف بن أيوب" in Arabic.
These are not equivalent. The word "An-Nasir" is missing entirely and the word "ibn" is different.
I don't know what the article should say instead. 79.180.55.69 ( talk) 03:06, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
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Change "Palestine" to "Kingdom of Jerusalem" to remove intentionally misleading historical revision. 82.81.82.30 ( talk) 11:44, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
Within the intro and elsewhere, for most readers I think it would be more effective and educational to say something like this:
Saladin's large sultanate ultimately ranged from Tunisia, Libya, Egypt and Sudan to Syria and northern Iraq, and it included western Arabia (for instance, Mecca and Medina) southward all the way to Yemen.
Dr.Bastedo ( talk) 22:13, 8 October 2019 (UTC)
Rawadid is an Arabized name. It comes from the Kurdish word "Rewend", which means Nomads. The origins of Saladin's Rewend family is not and has never been Arabic; the family's names having become Arabized is used by Arab nationalists to alter Saladin's origins. When the Rewend Dynasty ruled large parts of Kurdistan in the mid 10th century, they identified as Kurds. Saladin was born centuries later, so how the hell does that make him "of Arab origins"? Just quit finding excuses to alter his ethnicity. He was a Kurd, he replaced local Arab and Turkish rulers with other Kurds, and even the last Ayyubid rulers were referred to as "KURDISH" leaders in Western sources. Saladin played a major role in forming Kurdish ethnic consciousness and the Ayyubids were arguably one of the most ethno-centric (Kurd-favouring) Sultanates that have existed in the Middle-East. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:1C03:708:C100:6879:9163:6C0D:FD90 ( talk) 10:44, 7 March 2020 (UTC)
Rawad (رواد) is also an arabic word which means Pioneers "a person who is among the first to explore or settle somewhere"-- unsigned comment added by Dalal 1999 ( talk) 12:12, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
Comment : Well, i suggest you all to stop posting WP:FORUM-like messages here, as your POV about Saladin does not matter, what reliable sources say does, thus, Saladin was a Kurd, not an Arab, as per the sources that are cited in te article. End off.---Wikaviani (talk) (contribs) 21:23, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
The painting of Saladin is already in the Legacy section. This fine bust of Saladin is a beautiful piece of art which really should represent a great historical figure on Wikipedia. Karamanli86 ( talk) 16:08, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
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Please change the main portrait from a bust of Saladin as portrayed by Ghassan Massoud in the 2005 film KINGDOM OF HEAVEN to an earlier, preferably medieval depiction. OleJPColeman ( talk) 18:36, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
I have made a draft of Ali ibn Sufyan, please verify it /info/en/?search=Draft:Ali_bin_Sufyan, you can also see it in your article on 3.In Egypt, vizier of Egypt, 3rd paragraph's third line starting from the end.
I reverted recent changes to the lead, including to his name, and generally restored the long-standing version with some modifications. To summarize: "Al-Nasir Salah al-Din Yusuf ibn Ayyub" would be his most common full name, though it is often prefaced with "Al-Malik", which I did not add. A footnote could be added right after his name showing additional titles but the only sources used for this should be academic. With a subject as researched as Saladin, we ought to rely strictly on academic sources, i.e. better than Maimonides: The Life and World of One of Civilization's Greatest Minds. English translations of the titles would be useful as well. Saladin was a sovereign ruler and it is most appropriate to start the lead off by saying he was the sultan of Egypt and Syria and founder of the Ayyubid dynasty or the same thing in reverse order, as opposed to stating his ethnicity first. Same for the Umayyad, Abbasid, Fatimid caliphs, same for the Mamluk and Ottoman sultans, as well as Saladin's Ayyubid successors. The next sentence begins that he was a Sunni Muslim Kurd and led the Muslim campaigns against the Crusader states. I saw that his being a Sunni Muslim was removed, but in this case it's actually a vital fact. Saladin transitioned Egypt, a major country, from Shia Fatimid rule to Sunni rule, switched its allegiance to the Sunni Abbasids, and aggressively promoted the Sunni schools of jurisprudence in Egypt and Syria.
As for the modifications to the long-standing versions: I removed all citations from the lead. They do not belong here. The information is sourced in the article body; anything that was not, is now. The fact that he was an ethnic Kurd is undisputed in the reliable, scholarly sources, so we don't need to 'secure' this fact in the lead with multiple citations. I deleted that he was the "first Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques". The source used is Arab News and it is not convincing. If this could be backed by reliable, academic sources, then it should be added to the article. I removed the strange sentence of him being "described as the de-facto Caliph of Islam" backed by two weak sources for such a statement: Kadir Natho's Circassian History and Chris McNab's Famous Battles of the Medieval Period. -- Al Ameer ( talk) 18:42, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
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i dont no how to use this sorry please don't ban me TZS Dream OnYt ( talk) 19:39, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
In "Early Expeditions" 2nd paragraph discusses Saladin's position during the battle. CHANGE "Saladin played a major role, commanding the right-wing of the Zengid army, while a force of Kurds commanded the left, and Shirkuh was stationed in the center. Muslim sources at the time, however, put Saladin"... TO "Saladin played a major role. Christian sources place Saladin commanding the right-wing of the Zengid army, while a force of Kurds commanded the left, and Shirkuh was stationed in the center. Muslim sources at the time, however put Saladin".... If some sources are labelled as Muslim sources, other sources must be delineated by their religion as well.
1. In the first sentence, the bracket where you have written his name in Kurdish and Arabic:
With all of the changes above, it will be:
Al-Nasir Salah al-Din Yusuf ibn Ayyub ( Arabic: الناصر صلاح الدين يوسف بن أيوب, romanized: An-Nāṣir Ṣalāḥ ad-Dīn Yūsuf ibn Ayyūb; Kurdish: Selahedînê Eyûbî, سەلاحەدینی ئەیووبی; 1137 – 4 March 1193), better known simply as Salah ad-Din or Saladin ( /ˈsælədɪn/;), was a Sunni Muslim Kurd and the first sultan of Egypt and Syria and founder of the Ayyubid dynasty.
If you just want to correct the typo described the first edit request, it will be:
Al-Nasir Salah al-Din Yusuf ibn Ayyub ( Arabic: الناصر صلاح الدين يوسف بن أيوب, romanized: An-Nāṣir Ṣalāḥ ad-Dīn Yūsuf ibn Ayyūb; Kurdish: سەلاحەدینی ئەیووبی, romanized: Selahedînê Eyûbî; 1137 – 4 March 1193), better known simply as Salah ad-Din or Saladin ( /ˈsælədɪn/;), was a Sunni Muslim Kurd and the first sultan of Egypt and Syria and founder of the Ayyubid dynasty.
Regards,
RealRojSerbest (
talk).
2. I'd like to suggest adding Lessing's play, NATHAN THE WISE (1779), to the cultural legacy portion. There is already a Wikipedia article on this particular play, which was very influential in the way that westerners saw Saladin:
/info/en/?search=Nathan_the_Wise
Thanks, Jeri (meerkat7) IP: 2603:7000:6402:9bac:d48a:e8dd:3699:6637 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:7000:6402:9BAC:D48A:E8DD:3699:6637 ( talk) 21:08, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
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Add the novel [ Talisman] by Sir Walter Scott to the Novels section under Cultural Depictions of Saladin. He is a primary character in this book. 104.128.167.195 ( talk) 21:32, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
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Saladin was a sufi, so why not add this in? Abdul Qadir Gilani ق was very influential in that era and Salahuddin even met him. Notrealtime ( talk) 11:20, 26 September 2021 (UTC)
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77.244.126.30 ( talk) 08:43, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
he was Turkish, not Kurdish. please correct this mistake.
Where's Age of Empires 2's Saladin campaign reference in the video game section? It was important enough to the developers for it to be a part of the initial launch and covered a bit of the crusades. I know it's not accurate to say the least, but it is a part of him being in video games. Source: https://ageofempires.fandom.com/wiki/Saladin — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.24.170.113 ( talk) 17:33, 7 November 2022 (UTC)
The Pringle ref is currently given as:
...and the p=208
This cannot be right. In 1993, Pringle had vol=1 published:
Vol 3 was published in 2007 (Yeah; google got the date wrong 😟):
So, is the correct ref Pringle, 1993, p 208; or Pringle, 2007, p. 208?? I cannot see that either page is relevant? What am I missing? Huldra ( talk) 23:32, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
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Article should have the Arabic/Kurdish name without the need to hover over tiny links. Currently article does not follow convention in not having his actual name in actual language script. See https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Al-Adid where the "Al-Adid" is clearly spelled out. Having this change does not imply Salaudin ancestry but it brings accuracy and fairness. It is in poor taste and unencylopedic to not have a historical person actual name, hidden over a tiny link. OM262464 ( talk) 00:10, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
Can someone with editing powers add that the coin depicted in the infobox was minted by the Artuqids in modern day eastern Turkey?
Source: https://www.cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=266414
189.193.83.122 ( talk) 22:55, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
Selahaddin Eyyubi's mother, Amine Hatun bin Onur, is the sister of the Seljuk Harim Emir (governor) Shihabeddin Mahmud ibn Tokus al-Harimi. Selahaddin Eyyubi's mother is Turkish. If Salahaddin Eyyubi's father is Kurdish (it was not fully proven at that point), would a well-established institution like Wikipedia accept the sexist approach that a person's ancestry is descended from his father? A person inherits half of his genes from his mother. Then you are contradicting your own values as Wikipedia. Flagellum Dei ATTILA ( talk) 09:18, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
The infobox says 1174, but in the section "Sultan of Egypt", there is no mention of Saladin acquiring the title of Sultan. The Fatimid Caliphate is said to have been overthrown in 1171 at the death of the last Caliph, so was Saladin de facto Sultan? Was he still a vizier? What does the 1174 date mean? Was there an interregnum? Furthermore, the only mention of Saladin becoming Sultan is in the section "Further Conquests of Syria", which seems to have taken place in 1175 or 1176, according to the article, and so I ask again, what is the purpose of the 1174 date!
Bottom line is that this is misleading and confusing. I have no idea when this man assumed power, because had I not read the rest of the article, I would have assumed it was 1174, despite the fact that nothing in the article actually supports that claim. Pz Kmpf VI Ausf B ( talk) 01:53, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
You should add his Arab ethnicity. Furthermore, the Ayyubids & their kings have denied being kurdish many times and claimed Arabic ancestry Quirk1 ( talk) 02:32, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
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Change the "Kurdish" origin of Saladin. The Ayyubids denied being Kurds many times, and have claimed Ummayyad ancestry. Some backing to this:
The Rare and Excellent History of Saladin by Baha ad-Din ibn Shaddad1, The Continuation of the History of Damascus by Ibn al-Qalanisi
Najm ad-Din Ayyub and his brother Shirkuh were Arabs from the tribe of Banu Tayy, which is one of the most ancient and honorable tribes of Arabia. They traced their lineage to Rabiah ibn Ka’b al-Asadi, who was one of the most eminent companions of the Messenger of God. Their ancestry is verified and undisputed. Another book: * Sultanic Anecdotes and Josephly Virtues by Baha ad-Din ibn Shaddad3, a 12th-century jurist, scholar and biographer who wrote a biography of Saladin based on personal observation and friendship. He wrote: Najm ad-Din Ayyub and his brother Shirkuh were Arabs from the tribe of Banu Tayy, which is one of the most noble and illustrious tribes of Arabia. They claimed descent from Rabiah ibn Ka’b al-Asadi, who was one of the most distinguished companions of the Apostle of God. Their genealogy is confirmed and established. Markhorist ( talk) 09:07, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
He Rejects the Affiliation with Kurds saying: " Ibn Athir the scholar says: Najm Aldin Ayyub (Saladin's Father) is originally from Duwain in Azerbaijan, His origins are from the tribe Rawadiyah, which is the most honorable among the kurds, Now this is what is widespread among many people, and I didn't hear any of our family elders that were in my time to admit this [Kurdish root])[2]
He continues :
I asked the Mola al-Malik Amjad Taqi Al-Din Abal Fadhl Al Abas Bin Sultan Malik Al Adil (Ayyubid king and Saladin’s nephew) Did you hear your father or any of your elder brothers to admit this roots? He answered: I didn't hear any of them relate themselves to Kurds[3]
He adds:
In our family, this is a well-known fact that our grandfather ( Najm Al-din Ayoub) settled near Kurds and took wives from them, and they became like Uncles to us, not anything else, just like our relationships with Turks as some of our ancestors mothers were Turkish[4]
He then says:
The evidences that prove that we are not Kurds is that the two scholars Qazi bah Al-Din Bin Shadad and Emad Al-Din Katib Al Isfahany were specialist to Almalik Naser (ie Saladin) and The Emad Al-Din Isfahany had known Najm Aldin Ayyub very well long before when he was the governor of Tikrit, and these two scholars wrote about our origins and they would object this Denial of Kurdish roots if it was not the truth, and if Najm Al Din was connected to them ( Kurds) they would surely notice that[5]
At the end of his talks, he says:
And that family tree that Hasan bin Qarib bin Omran Al Hirashi the scholar wrote and gave to my grandfather Almalik Al Mo'azam [ Saladin's nephew the governor of Damascus] which connected our roots to Ali bin Ahmad Al Meri Mamduh Abi Tayeb (The Arab Tribs of Mara bin 'Ouf from Quraish) was accepted by my grandfather and he didn't reject it [6]
and he said:
And I'm inclined to this family tree since my grandfather [Saladin's nephew] with his knowledge and wisdom of ancestry and arab tribes and Jurisprudence accepted it and he was always in company with his father [Saladin's brother] and had known people who saw and known his grandfather [ie Najm al-Din Ayoub] so he is the most reliable person in this field [7]
Now you see Ayyubid kings and Saladin’s grandchildren themselves Denied the "Kurdish origins" that were Claimed even in their era, please add these to the article and spread the word of Saladin's Grandchildren that they were not "Kurds".
Quirk1 (
talk) 04:13, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
@ Quirk1, take this as a warning: your behavior here is becoming disruptive and may lead to a block if you continue. You either refuse, or are unable, to WP:HEAR what other users are telling you. It is clear both consensus and reliable sources are against you, and continuing to argue your point is becoming repetitive. Wikipedia users are not obliged to satisfy you. Jeppiz ( talk) 23:40, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
In the book al-Fawa'id al-Jalieyah Fi al-Fara'id al-Naseriah (In Arabic: الفوائد الجلية فی الفرائد الناصریة) which is a Manuscript preserved in Hagia Sophia, No. 4823. and a copy of it is found in the British Museum, No. 557 Which is the collection of letters and poems of Saladin’s nephew the Ayyubid King al-Malik(king) Nasser bin al-Malik(king) Mo'azam Isa bin al-Malik(king) Adel Bin Ayyub written by his son Majd al-Din Abu Mohammed Known by title Al-Malik(the King) al-Amjad Al-Ayyubi[1] Manuscript link: https://archive.org/details/makhtutat-aya-sofya-07 in the first couple of pages.
He Rejects the Affiliation with Kurds saying: " Ibn Athir the scholar says: Najm Aldin Ayyub (Saladin's Father) is originally from Duwain in Azerbaijan, His origins are from the tribe Rawadiyah, which is the most honorable among the kurds, Now this is what is widespread among many people, and I didn't hear any of our family elders that were in my time to admit this [Kurdish root])[2]
He continues :
I asked the Mola al-Malik Amjad Taqi Al-Din Abal Fadhl Al Abas Bin Sultan Malik Al Adil (Ayyubid king and Saladin’s nephew) Did you hear your father or any of your elder brothers to admit this roots? He answered: I didn't hear any of them relate themselves to Kurds[3]
He adds:
In our family, this is a well-known fact that our Father ( Najm Al-din Ayoub) settled near Kurds and took wives from them, and they became like Uncles to us, not anything else, just like our relationships with Turks as some of our ancestors mothers were Turkish[4]
He then says:
The evidences that prove that we are not Kurds is that the two scholars Qazi bah Al-Din Bin Shadad and Emad Al-Din Katib Al Isfahany were specialist to Almalik Naser (ie Saladin) and The Emad Al-Din Isfahany had known Najm Aldin Ayyub very well long before when he was the governor of Tikrit, and these two scholars wrote about our origins and they would object this Denial of Kurdish roots if it was not the truth, and if Najm Al Din was connected to them ( Kurds) they would surely notice that[5]
At the end of his talks, he says:
And that family tree that Hasan bin Qarib bin Omran Al Hirashi the scholar wrote and gave to my grandfather Almalik Al Mo'azam [ Saladin's nephew the governor of Damascus] which connected our roots to Ali bin Ahmad Al Meri Mamduh Abi Tayeb (The Arab Tribs of Mara bin 'Ouf from Quraish) was accepted by my grandfather and he didn't reject it [6]
and he said:
And I'm inclined to this family tree since my grandfather [Saladin's nephew] with his knowledge and wisdom of ancestry and arab tribes and Jurisprudence accepted it and he was always in company with his father [Saladin's brother] and had known people who saw and known his Father [ie Najm al-Din Ayoub] so he is the most reliable person in this field [7]
Now you see Ayyubid kings and Saladin’s grandchildren themselves Denied the "Kurdish origins" that were Claimed even in their era, please add these to the article and spread the word of Saladin's Grandchildren that they were not "Kurds".
Quirk1 (
talk) 01:54, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
"Once the Ayyubids were ensconced in power, some of them sponsored genealogies showing that they were not Kurds, but rather of noble Arab descent". This implies there was an ancient public relations campaign to recharacterize the Ayyubid ancestry, and the manuscripts you cite could well be part of this rebranding initiative. Iskandar323 ( talk) 07:09, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
"Once the Ayyubids were ensconced in power, some of them sponsored genealogies showing that they were not Kurds, but rather of noble Arab descent".From your source. Iskandar323 ( talk) 19:41, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
I was just thinking about how we caught Quirk1 using AI and then he vanished without another word. Extremely amusing! I'm still laughing about it. Adam Bishop ( talk) 02:37, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
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Palestine never existed it was a region of people that included Jews, Christians and Muslims. 68.146.140.177 ( talk) 03:01, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
in the Conquest of the Kingdom, this article refers to Kingdom of Jerusalem (which was the name of the land at that time) as Palestine. That's a major mistake. 2A0D:6FC7:524:C240:D916:2AB2:319F:60B2 ( talk) 16:09, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
According to the citation 115, it is said that Saladin destroyed church towers and turned them into stables, but no such credible text can be found in history, except this accusation in this one book. Ethics and code of conduct of Saladin is known around the world. According to:
Under the headline of The Fate of the Native Christians:
Akhn54 (
talk) 20:23, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
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Creed = Ashari 105.184.13.15 ( talk) 18:28, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
The caption below the laser-enhanced view of the city gate reads:
"Isometric laser scan data image of the Bab al-Barqiyya Gate in the 12th century Ayyubid Wall. This fortified gate was constructed with interlocking volumes that surrounded the entrant in such a way as to provide greater security and control than typical city wall gates."
It would be very helpful if the (totally obvious) question of Which city is this a gate of? were answered in this caption. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:200:c082:2ea0:fc98:eafb:7a0e:c355 ( talk • contribs)
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Even though most of the resources say that Saladin was Kurdish, there are still some other resources that says he was Arabic or Turkish. So there is no definite origin but Wikipedia (well, in some versions of this page other possible origins are included too) completely ignores that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.253.112.56 ( talk) 20:33, 20 November 2016 (UTC)
The opinion of nationalist Turks and Arabs does not matter. Saladin's origin is documented very well and no discussion is possible about his Kurdish origins; which is a fact. YOu can have an opinion about that fact, but it won't make him, or the Ayyubid dynasty as a whole, non-Kurdish. I am glad this article is protected because Turkish nationalists have editted a lot of articles in an attempt to Turkify history, people, and things that aren't and never were Turkish. It's pathetic.
Have a nice day. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.181.122.63 ( talk) 22:06, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
In book Fawed Al Jalieyah Fi Faraed Al Naseriah (In Arabic: الفوائد الجلیه فی الفرائد الناصریة) : [Original manuscript is in the british museum, Document number 557] Which is the collection of letters and poems of Sladin's nephew the Ayoubite King Al Malek Nasser Bin Malek Mo'azam Isa Bin Malek Adel Bin Ayoub writen by his son Majd al Din Abu Mohammed Known by title Almalek Alamjad Al ayoubi
[1], He Rejects the Affiliation to
Kurds which being calimed even in their time, saying:
"
Ibn Athir the scholar says: Najm Aldin Ayoub (Saladin's Grandfather) is originaly from Duwain in Azerbijan, His origins is from Kurdish tribe Rawadyeh, which is the most honorable Kurdish tribe , Now this is what is widespread among many people, and I didn't hear any of our family elders that were in my time to admit this [Kurdish root])
He continues :
I asked the Mola Al Malek Amjad Taqi Al Din Abal Fadhl Al Abas Bin Soltan Malik Al Adil (Ayoubite king and Sladin's nephew) Did you hear your father or any of your elder brothers to admit this roots? He answered : I didn't hear any of them relate themselves to Kurds
He adds:
In our familly this is a well known fact that our grandfather ( Najm Al-din Ayoub) setteld near Kurds and took wives from them, and they become like Uncles to us not anything else, just like our relationships with Turks as some of our ancector's mothers were Turkish
He then says:
From the evidences that proves that we are not Kurds is that the two scholars Qazi bah Al Din Bin Shadad and Emad Al Din Katib Al Isfahany were specialist to Almalik Naser (ie Saladin) and The Emad Al Din Isfahany had known Najm Aldin ayoub very well long before when he was the governor of Tikrit, and these two scholars wrote about our origins and they would object this Denial of Kurdish roots if it was not the truth, and if Najm Al Din was connected to them ( Kurds) they would sure noticed that
At the end of his talks he says:
And that family tree that Hasan bin Qarib bin Omran Al Hirashi the scholar wrote and gave to my grandfather Almalik Al Mo'azam [ Saladin's nephew the governor of damascus] which connected our roots to Ali bin Ahmad Al Meri Mamduh Abi Tayeb (The Arab Tribs of Mara bin 'Ouf from Quraish) was accepted by my grand father and he didn't reject it
and he said:
And I'm inclined to this family tree since my grandfather [Saladin's nephew] with his knowledge and wisdom of ancesrty and arab tribes and Jurisprudence accepted it and he was always in company with his father [Saladin's brother] and had known people who saw and known his grandfather [ie Najm al Din Ayoub] so he is the most reliable person in this field
Now you see Ayoubite kings and Sladin's Grandchildrens themselves Denied the "Kurdish Roots" that were Claimed even in their era , Laszlo Panaflex Add these to article and spread the word of Slasin's Grandchildren that they were not "Kurds". Ted hamiltun ( talk) 05:39, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
References
This wiki should add these quotes!! MWahaiibii ( talk) 19:40, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
The Third Crusade section is a mess. I would like to clean it up with some edits. There was never a battle near Ascalon between Richard and Saladin's forces. Also, the siege and battle of Jaffa of 1192 are not mentioned. Also, the section seems to imply that Richard made an attempt to capture Jerusalem, which he did not, he only made maneuvers near Jerusalem but never actually besieged the city. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hutin5432 ( talk • contribs) 01:05, 28 October 2016 (UTC)
OK, I've added some updates to that section complete with citations to several scholarly sources. I think the section is much improved in terms of accuracy and presentation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hutin5432 ( talk • contribs) 01:41, 28 October 2016 (UTC)
Some time ago, I added the Ash'ari school of theology to the infobox of this article. The references for this are taken from the following texts:
This was removed by @ Sakimonk:. I fail to see why given that this is useful information. In particular, modern terrorist groups such as Al-Qaeda consider Saladin to be there hero (see for example Strategy: The Deep Battle Against America by By Michael W. S. Ryan [Columbia University Press]) despite the fact that his school of theology was actually very different. Perhaps this should be expanded in the article but I fail to see why it should be removed entirely from the infobox. RookTaker ( talk) 07:53, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
Should we also add his madhab in the infobox as well? Blizzio ( talk) 15:09, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
I'm not sure if the Syrian invasion section of Saladin's article is just wrong or badly formatted, but it's currently discussing events in May 1175 before those in April. — LlywelynII 13:19, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
Please someone correct that nonsense in 'Wars against Crusaders' section. Some joker has linked Iranian province Adharbayjan (Azerbaijan) with the modern country Azerbaijan (Republic) which didn't even exist in the 10th century. Yes, its funny..
'However, since then, Masʻūd had allied himself with the powerful governor of Azerbaijan and Jibal, who in 1185..' Thank you. -- Alecx ( talk) 20:59, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
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This has become a point of contention again. The long-standing image in the infobox seems to have been deleted recently, so now there's a free-for-all about which image should replace it. The two reasonable images, in my opinion, are File:Cristofano dell'altissimo, saladino, ante 1568 - Serie Gioviana.jpg (mid-16th century) and File:Portrait of Saladin (before A.D. 1185; short).jpg (1185 CE). I favor the latter because it was drawn in Saladin's time (he died in 1193) and was done by a Muslim contemporary, Ismail al-Jazari. The 16th-century photo was done five centuries after Saladin's death by an Italian painter. In the Italian painting, Saladin looks bewildered and is wearing a multi-horned turban, which looks strange. Let's find a consensus here about which of the two images (or other proposed images) are best for the infobox. If we can't find a consensus here or there is little response, an RfC should be opened to settle the matter. -- Al Ameer ( talk) 19:13, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
I restored the al-Jazari picture to the infobox per the agreement and/or reasoning given here by Kansas Bear, Alexis and myself. -- Al Ameer ( talk) 22:34, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
Normally I'd prefer the contemporary image over a early modern one. The fact that the caption expresses uncertainty, and comes from a book over a century old, makes me think we should be wary of using it at all. If someone can find a modern and reliable source that refers to this particular image, and associates it with Saladin, I'd totally support it as the lead image. If not I don't think we should use it.-- Brianann MacAmhlaidh ( talk) 00:59, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
@ Al Ameer son: Found some commentary on these images http://mamluk.uchicago.edu/MamlukStudiesReview_XVIII_2014-15.pdf p.207 and the pages after it. In fact you can read the whole article about the Ayyuid image in Mamluk clothes. Alexis Ivanov ( talk) 18:56, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
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I'd like to request adding the recently published magazine article to further reading. I believe it will assist those doing research on Saladin's campaign of 1187.
Welsh, William E. "Saladin's Battle for Jerusalem," All About History, June 2016, Issue 40, pp. 54-61.
Update: 7-4-16
To whom it may concern:
I made the request above about adding Welsh's magazine article, and I hereby withdraw the request. I apologize for the intrusion.
HistorianVictory HistorianVictory ( talk) 08:15, 4 July 2016 (UTC)
HistorianVictory ( talk) 08:39, 3 July 2016 (UTC)
I requset that to add his orgin (kurdish) in there infobox. Ibrahim aziz ( talk) 15:30, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
There is no doubt that Tikrit (the birth city of Saladin) is an Iraqi city. Moreover, Tikrit nowadays is the capital city Saladin province/governor, which is the official name of an Iraqi province (since 1976). Tikrit Hence, it would be more honest if you add "Tikrit (modern-day Iraq)" in addition to the past Abbasid Caliphate in the "Born" city portal. The current version includes Upper Mesopotamia, which does not provide clear information about the location because Upper Mesopotamia is not a country, nor an official province at all. Please, most of the Iraqis will be disappointed if that lack of clarity would still there. Thank you.
/info/en/?search=Tikrit /info/en/?search=Saladin_Governorate — Preceding unsigned comment added by 180.216.53.166 ( talk) 17:37, 13 May 2017 (UTC)
wow — Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.216.37.110 ( talk) 01:23, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
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Talk about his uncle and his relationship 50.193.223.217 ( talk) 21:48, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
if he did hail from the The Rawadid tribe (a Kurdicized tribe of arab origins), doesn't that make him an arab? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Arabos ( talk • contribs) 06:40, 29 March 2018 (UTC)
Clearly, no !—> Farawahar ( talk) 09:14, 31 March 2018 (UTC)
The article that is hyperlinked to Saladin's 12th child says that he is not the child of Saladin.
It is not clear enough that Saladin is kurdish; because there are many sources that cite saladin as Arabic or Turkish, so I think this should be mentioned. — Preceding unsigned comment added by الرشيد ( talk • contribs) 17:30, 11 February 2019 (UTC)
It is actually very clear that he was of Kurdish ethnicity. There is literally no doubt about this. Sources mentioning him as anything else other than 100% Kurdish, are, 100% of the time, racist, chauvinist, backward Turkish and Arab sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:A210:2483:C380:D5BB:8DC8:14ED:D757 ( talk) 20:43, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
Saladin ruled centuries before the Ottomans set foot into Anatolia from Mongolia. How on earth would he have been a Turk? It was confirmed he's a Kurd. 70.29.14.147 ( talk) 05:25, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
The name is given as "An-Nasir Salah ad-Din Yusuf ibn Ayyub" in English and as "صلاح الدين يوسف بن أيوب" in Arabic.
These are not equivalent. The word "An-Nasir" is missing entirely and the word "ibn" is different.
I don't know what the article should say instead. 79.180.55.69 ( talk) 03:06, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
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Change "Palestine" to "Kingdom of Jerusalem" to remove intentionally misleading historical revision. 82.81.82.30 ( talk) 11:44, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
Within the intro and elsewhere, for most readers I think it would be more effective and educational to say something like this:
Saladin's large sultanate ultimately ranged from Tunisia, Libya, Egypt and Sudan to Syria and northern Iraq, and it included western Arabia (for instance, Mecca and Medina) southward all the way to Yemen.
Dr.Bastedo ( talk) 22:13, 8 October 2019 (UTC)
Rawadid is an Arabized name. It comes from the Kurdish word "Rewend", which means Nomads. The origins of Saladin's Rewend family is not and has never been Arabic; the family's names having become Arabized is used by Arab nationalists to alter Saladin's origins. When the Rewend Dynasty ruled large parts of Kurdistan in the mid 10th century, they identified as Kurds. Saladin was born centuries later, so how the hell does that make him "of Arab origins"? Just quit finding excuses to alter his ethnicity. He was a Kurd, he replaced local Arab and Turkish rulers with other Kurds, and even the last Ayyubid rulers were referred to as "KURDISH" leaders in Western sources. Saladin played a major role in forming Kurdish ethnic consciousness and the Ayyubids were arguably one of the most ethno-centric (Kurd-favouring) Sultanates that have existed in the Middle-East. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:1C03:708:C100:6879:9163:6C0D:FD90 ( talk) 10:44, 7 March 2020 (UTC)
Rawad (رواد) is also an arabic word which means Pioneers "a person who is among the first to explore or settle somewhere"-- unsigned comment added by Dalal 1999 ( talk) 12:12, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
Comment : Well, i suggest you all to stop posting WP:FORUM-like messages here, as your POV about Saladin does not matter, what reliable sources say does, thus, Saladin was a Kurd, not an Arab, as per the sources that are cited in te article. End off.---Wikaviani (talk) (contribs) 21:23, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
The painting of Saladin is already in the Legacy section. This fine bust of Saladin is a beautiful piece of art which really should represent a great historical figure on Wikipedia. Karamanli86 ( talk) 16:08, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
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Please change the main portrait from a bust of Saladin as portrayed by Ghassan Massoud in the 2005 film KINGDOM OF HEAVEN to an earlier, preferably medieval depiction. OleJPColeman ( talk) 18:36, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
I have made a draft of Ali ibn Sufyan, please verify it /info/en/?search=Draft:Ali_bin_Sufyan, you can also see it in your article on 3.In Egypt, vizier of Egypt, 3rd paragraph's third line starting from the end.
I reverted recent changes to the lead, including to his name, and generally restored the long-standing version with some modifications. To summarize: "Al-Nasir Salah al-Din Yusuf ibn Ayyub" would be his most common full name, though it is often prefaced with "Al-Malik", which I did not add. A footnote could be added right after his name showing additional titles but the only sources used for this should be academic. With a subject as researched as Saladin, we ought to rely strictly on academic sources, i.e. better than Maimonides: The Life and World of One of Civilization's Greatest Minds. English translations of the titles would be useful as well. Saladin was a sovereign ruler and it is most appropriate to start the lead off by saying he was the sultan of Egypt and Syria and founder of the Ayyubid dynasty or the same thing in reverse order, as opposed to stating his ethnicity first. Same for the Umayyad, Abbasid, Fatimid caliphs, same for the Mamluk and Ottoman sultans, as well as Saladin's Ayyubid successors. The next sentence begins that he was a Sunni Muslim Kurd and led the Muslim campaigns against the Crusader states. I saw that his being a Sunni Muslim was removed, but in this case it's actually a vital fact. Saladin transitioned Egypt, a major country, from Shia Fatimid rule to Sunni rule, switched its allegiance to the Sunni Abbasids, and aggressively promoted the Sunni schools of jurisprudence in Egypt and Syria.
As for the modifications to the long-standing versions: I removed all citations from the lead. They do not belong here. The information is sourced in the article body; anything that was not, is now. The fact that he was an ethnic Kurd is undisputed in the reliable, scholarly sources, so we don't need to 'secure' this fact in the lead with multiple citations. I deleted that he was the "first Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques". The source used is Arab News and it is not convincing. If this could be backed by reliable, academic sources, then it should be added to the article. I removed the strange sentence of him being "described as the de-facto Caliph of Islam" backed by two weak sources for such a statement: Kadir Natho's Circassian History and Chris McNab's Famous Battles of the Medieval Period. -- Al Ameer ( talk) 18:42, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
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i dont no how to use this sorry please don't ban me TZS Dream OnYt ( talk) 19:39, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
In "Early Expeditions" 2nd paragraph discusses Saladin's position during the battle. CHANGE "Saladin played a major role, commanding the right-wing of the Zengid army, while a force of Kurds commanded the left, and Shirkuh was stationed in the center. Muslim sources at the time, however, put Saladin"... TO "Saladin played a major role. Christian sources place Saladin commanding the right-wing of the Zengid army, while a force of Kurds commanded the left, and Shirkuh was stationed in the center. Muslim sources at the time, however put Saladin".... If some sources are labelled as Muslim sources, other sources must be delineated by their religion as well.
1. In the first sentence, the bracket where you have written his name in Kurdish and Arabic:
With all of the changes above, it will be:
Al-Nasir Salah al-Din Yusuf ibn Ayyub ( Arabic: الناصر صلاح الدين يوسف بن أيوب, romanized: An-Nāṣir Ṣalāḥ ad-Dīn Yūsuf ibn Ayyūb; Kurdish: Selahedînê Eyûbî, سەلاحەدینی ئەیووبی; 1137 – 4 March 1193), better known simply as Salah ad-Din or Saladin ( /ˈsælədɪn/;), was a Sunni Muslim Kurd and the first sultan of Egypt and Syria and founder of the Ayyubid dynasty.
If you just want to correct the typo described the first edit request, it will be:
Al-Nasir Salah al-Din Yusuf ibn Ayyub ( Arabic: الناصر صلاح الدين يوسف بن أيوب, romanized: An-Nāṣir Ṣalāḥ ad-Dīn Yūsuf ibn Ayyūb; Kurdish: سەلاحەدینی ئەیووبی, romanized: Selahedînê Eyûbî; 1137 – 4 March 1193), better known simply as Salah ad-Din or Saladin ( /ˈsælədɪn/;), was a Sunni Muslim Kurd and the first sultan of Egypt and Syria and founder of the Ayyubid dynasty.
Regards,
RealRojSerbest (
talk).
2. I'd like to suggest adding Lessing's play, NATHAN THE WISE (1779), to the cultural legacy portion. There is already a Wikipedia article on this particular play, which was very influential in the way that westerners saw Saladin:
/info/en/?search=Nathan_the_Wise
Thanks, Jeri (meerkat7) IP: 2603:7000:6402:9bac:d48a:e8dd:3699:6637 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:7000:6402:9BAC:D48A:E8DD:3699:6637 ( talk) 21:08, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
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Add the novel [ Talisman] by Sir Walter Scott to the Novels section under Cultural Depictions of Saladin. He is a primary character in this book. 104.128.167.195 ( talk) 21:32, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
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Saladin was a sufi, so why not add this in? Abdul Qadir Gilani ق was very influential in that era and Salahuddin even met him. Notrealtime ( talk) 11:20, 26 September 2021 (UTC)
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77.244.126.30 ( talk) 08:43, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
he was Turkish, not Kurdish. please correct this mistake.
Where's Age of Empires 2's Saladin campaign reference in the video game section? It was important enough to the developers for it to be a part of the initial launch and covered a bit of the crusades. I know it's not accurate to say the least, but it is a part of him being in video games. Source: https://ageofempires.fandom.com/wiki/Saladin — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.24.170.113 ( talk) 17:33, 7 November 2022 (UTC)
The Pringle ref is currently given as:
...and the p=208
This cannot be right. In 1993, Pringle had vol=1 published:
Vol 3 was published in 2007 (Yeah; google got the date wrong 😟):
So, is the correct ref Pringle, 1993, p 208; or Pringle, 2007, p. 208?? I cannot see that either page is relevant? What am I missing? Huldra ( talk) 23:32, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
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Article should have the Arabic/Kurdish name without the need to hover over tiny links. Currently article does not follow convention in not having his actual name in actual language script. See https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Al-Adid where the "Al-Adid" is clearly spelled out. Having this change does not imply Salaudin ancestry but it brings accuracy and fairness. It is in poor taste and unencylopedic to not have a historical person actual name, hidden over a tiny link. OM262464 ( talk) 00:10, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
Can someone with editing powers add that the coin depicted in the infobox was minted by the Artuqids in modern day eastern Turkey?
Source: https://www.cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=266414
189.193.83.122 ( talk) 22:55, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
Selahaddin Eyyubi's mother, Amine Hatun bin Onur, is the sister of the Seljuk Harim Emir (governor) Shihabeddin Mahmud ibn Tokus al-Harimi. Selahaddin Eyyubi's mother is Turkish. If Salahaddin Eyyubi's father is Kurdish (it was not fully proven at that point), would a well-established institution like Wikipedia accept the sexist approach that a person's ancestry is descended from his father? A person inherits half of his genes from his mother. Then you are contradicting your own values as Wikipedia. Flagellum Dei ATTILA ( talk) 09:18, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
The infobox says 1174, but in the section "Sultan of Egypt", there is no mention of Saladin acquiring the title of Sultan. The Fatimid Caliphate is said to have been overthrown in 1171 at the death of the last Caliph, so was Saladin de facto Sultan? Was he still a vizier? What does the 1174 date mean? Was there an interregnum? Furthermore, the only mention of Saladin becoming Sultan is in the section "Further Conquests of Syria", which seems to have taken place in 1175 or 1176, according to the article, and so I ask again, what is the purpose of the 1174 date!
Bottom line is that this is misleading and confusing. I have no idea when this man assumed power, because had I not read the rest of the article, I would have assumed it was 1174, despite the fact that nothing in the article actually supports that claim. Pz Kmpf VI Ausf B ( talk) 01:53, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
You should add his Arab ethnicity. Furthermore, the Ayyubids & their kings have denied being kurdish many times and claimed Arabic ancestry Quirk1 ( talk) 02:32, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
This
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Change the "Kurdish" origin of Saladin. The Ayyubids denied being Kurds many times, and have claimed Ummayyad ancestry. Some backing to this:
The Rare and Excellent History of Saladin by Baha ad-Din ibn Shaddad1, The Continuation of the History of Damascus by Ibn al-Qalanisi
Najm ad-Din Ayyub and his brother Shirkuh were Arabs from the tribe of Banu Tayy, which is one of the most ancient and honorable tribes of Arabia. They traced their lineage to Rabiah ibn Ka’b al-Asadi, who was one of the most eminent companions of the Messenger of God. Their ancestry is verified and undisputed. Another book: * Sultanic Anecdotes and Josephly Virtues by Baha ad-Din ibn Shaddad3, a 12th-century jurist, scholar and biographer who wrote a biography of Saladin based on personal observation and friendship. He wrote: Najm ad-Din Ayyub and his brother Shirkuh were Arabs from the tribe of Banu Tayy, which is one of the most noble and illustrious tribes of Arabia. They claimed descent from Rabiah ibn Ka’b al-Asadi, who was one of the most distinguished companions of the Apostle of God. Their genealogy is confirmed and established. Markhorist ( talk) 09:07, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
He Rejects the Affiliation with Kurds saying: " Ibn Athir the scholar says: Najm Aldin Ayyub (Saladin's Father) is originally from Duwain in Azerbaijan, His origins are from the tribe Rawadiyah, which is the most honorable among the kurds, Now this is what is widespread among many people, and I didn't hear any of our family elders that were in my time to admit this [Kurdish root])[2]
He continues :
I asked the Mola al-Malik Amjad Taqi Al-Din Abal Fadhl Al Abas Bin Sultan Malik Al Adil (Ayyubid king and Saladin’s nephew) Did you hear your father or any of your elder brothers to admit this roots? He answered: I didn't hear any of them relate themselves to Kurds[3]
He adds:
In our family, this is a well-known fact that our grandfather ( Najm Al-din Ayoub) settled near Kurds and took wives from them, and they became like Uncles to us, not anything else, just like our relationships with Turks as some of our ancestors mothers were Turkish[4]
He then says:
The evidences that prove that we are not Kurds is that the two scholars Qazi bah Al-Din Bin Shadad and Emad Al-Din Katib Al Isfahany were specialist to Almalik Naser (ie Saladin) and The Emad Al-Din Isfahany had known Najm Aldin Ayyub very well long before when he was the governor of Tikrit, and these two scholars wrote about our origins and they would object this Denial of Kurdish roots if it was not the truth, and if Najm Al Din was connected to them ( Kurds) they would surely notice that[5]
At the end of his talks, he says:
And that family tree that Hasan bin Qarib bin Omran Al Hirashi the scholar wrote and gave to my grandfather Almalik Al Mo'azam [ Saladin's nephew the governor of Damascus] which connected our roots to Ali bin Ahmad Al Meri Mamduh Abi Tayeb (The Arab Tribs of Mara bin 'Ouf from Quraish) was accepted by my grandfather and he didn't reject it [6]
and he said:
And I'm inclined to this family tree since my grandfather [Saladin's nephew] with his knowledge and wisdom of ancestry and arab tribes and Jurisprudence accepted it and he was always in company with his father [Saladin's brother] and had known people who saw and known his grandfather [ie Najm al-Din Ayoub] so he is the most reliable person in this field [7]
Now you see Ayyubid kings and Saladin’s grandchildren themselves Denied the "Kurdish origins" that were Claimed even in their era, please add these to the article and spread the word of Saladin's Grandchildren that they were not "Kurds".
Quirk1 (
talk) 04:13, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
@ Quirk1, take this as a warning: your behavior here is becoming disruptive and may lead to a block if you continue. You either refuse, or are unable, to WP:HEAR what other users are telling you. It is clear both consensus and reliable sources are against you, and continuing to argue your point is becoming repetitive. Wikipedia users are not obliged to satisfy you. Jeppiz ( talk) 23:40, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
In the book al-Fawa'id al-Jalieyah Fi al-Fara'id al-Naseriah (In Arabic: الفوائد الجلية فی الفرائد الناصریة) which is a Manuscript preserved in Hagia Sophia, No. 4823. and a copy of it is found in the British Museum, No. 557 Which is the collection of letters and poems of Saladin’s nephew the Ayyubid King al-Malik(king) Nasser bin al-Malik(king) Mo'azam Isa bin al-Malik(king) Adel Bin Ayyub written by his son Majd al-Din Abu Mohammed Known by title Al-Malik(the King) al-Amjad Al-Ayyubi[1] Manuscript link: https://archive.org/details/makhtutat-aya-sofya-07 in the first couple of pages.
He Rejects the Affiliation with Kurds saying: " Ibn Athir the scholar says: Najm Aldin Ayyub (Saladin's Father) is originally from Duwain in Azerbaijan, His origins are from the tribe Rawadiyah, which is the most honorable among the kurds, Now this is what is widespread among many people, and I didn't hear any of our family elders that were in my time to admit this [Kurdish root])[2]
He continues :
I asked the Mola al-Malik Amjad Taqi Al-Din Abal Fadhl Al Abas Bin Sultan Malik Al Adil (Ayyubid king and Saladin’s nephew) Did you hear your father or any of your elder brothers to admit this roots? He answered: I didn't hear any of them relate themselves to Kurds[3]
He adds:
In our family, this is a well-known fact that our Father ( Najm Al-din Ayoub) settled near Kurds and took wives from them, and they became like Uncles to us, not anything else, just like our relationships with Turks as some of our ancestors mothers were Turkish[4]
He then says:
The evidences that prove that we are not Kurds is that the two scholars Qazi bah Al-Din Bin Shadad and Emad Al-Din Katib Al Isfahany were specialist to Almalik Naser (ie Saladin) and The Emad Al-Din Isfahany had known Najm Aldin Ayyub very well long before when he was the governor of Tikrit, and these two scholars wrote about our origins and they would object this Denial of Kurdish roots if it was not the truth, and if Najm Al Din was connected to them ( Kurds) they would surely notice that[5]
At the end of his talks, he says:
And that family tree that Hasan bin Qarib bin Omran Al Hirashi the scholar wrote and gave to my grandfather Almalik Al Mo'azam [ Saladin's nephew the governor of Damascus] which connected our roots to Ali bin Ahmad Al Meri Mamduh Abi Tayeb (The Arab Tribs of Mara bin 'Ouf from Quraish) was accepted by my grandfather and he didn't reject it [6]
and he said:
And I'm inclined to this family tree since my grandfather [Saladin's nephew] with his knowledge and wisdom of ancestry and arab tribes and Jurisprudence accepted it and he was always in company with his father [Saladin's brother] and had known people who saw and known his Father [ie Najm al-Din Ayoub] so he is the most reliable person in this field [7]
Now you see Ayyubid kings and Saladin’s grandchildren themselves Denied the "Kurdish origins" that were Claimed even in their era, please add these to the article and spread the word of Saladin's Grandchildren that they were not "Kurds".
Quirk1 (
talk) 01:54, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
"Once the Ayyubids were ensconced in power, some of them sponsored genealogies showing that they were not Kurds, but rather of noble Arab descent". This implies there was an ancient public relations campaign to recharacterize the Ayyubid ancestry, and the manuscripts you cite could well be part of this rebranding initiative. Iskandar323 ( talk) 07:09, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
"Once the Ayyubids were ensconced in power, some of them sponsored genealogies showing that they were not Kurds, but rather of noble Arab descent".From your source. Iskandar323 ( talk) 19:41, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
I was just thinking about how we caught Quirk1 using AI and then he vanished without another word. Extremely amusing! I'm still laughing about it. Adam Bishop ( talk) 02:37, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
This
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Palestine never existed it was a region of people that included Jews, Christians and Muslims. 68.146.140.177 ( talk) 03:01, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
in the Conquest of the Kingdom, this article refers to Kingdom of Jerusalem (which was the name of the land at that time) as Palestine. That's a major mistake. 2A0D:6FC7:524:C240:D916:2AB2:319F:60B2 ( talk) 16:09, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
According to the citation 115, it is said that Saladin destroyed church towers and turned them into stables, but no such credible text can be found in history, except this accusation in this one book. Ethics and code of conduct of Saladin is known around the world. According to:
Under the headline of The Fate of the Native Christians:
Akhn54 (
talk) 20:23, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
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Creed = Ashari 105.184.13.15 ( talk) 18:28, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
The caption below the laser-enhanced view of the city gate reads:
"Isometric laser scan data image of the Bab al-Barqiyya Gate in the 12th century Ayyubid Wall. This fortified gate was constructed with interlocking volumes that surrounded the entrant in such a way as to provide greater security and control than typical city wall gates."
It would be very helpful if the (totally obvious) question of Which city is this a gate of? were answered in this caption. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:200:c082:2ea0:fc98:eafb:7a0e:c355 ( talk • contribs)