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Archive 5 | ← | Archive 10 | Archive 11 | Archive 12 | Archive 13 | Archive 14 |
(De ce este pusă engleza la limbile minorităților? Am văzut că este o legătură la un articol( http://www.coe.int/en/web/conventions/full-list/-/conventions/treaty/148/declarations?p_auth=63PpH3zN) dar nu pare că zice ceva de engleză la România în afară de faptul că este scris în engleză. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.115.215.111 ( talk) 10:37, 6 July 2017 (UTC)
The History of Romania section lacks a NPOV, especially for the modern and contemporary era (starting 1950). The sole point of view presented is that prevalent in mainstream western media and western-affiliated groups.
The section on the Communist period for example is biased by presenting as fact allegations against the regime of that, without clearly stating in the text which group claimed those opinions. Furthermore, the content is misleading in that it omits any mention of the numerous economic and industrial achievements of Romania during those times, achievements which are undisputed by any scholar, if not that popularized recently in media. Some sources cited, like the Tismaneanu report are openly biased anti-communist, pro-Western and probably financed by foreign agent NGOs. Regardless of the source of funding, the Tismaneanu report cannot be considered an impartial, scientific review of that period as its purpose was a political statement adopted in the Romanian Parliament condemning communism. It is as if the prosecutor's request is claimed as evidence at a trial.
The destruction of the industry and economy of Romania following events in 1989 is an important issue missing from the section. The reality of such destruction is sometimes talked about in Romanian media, like [1]. Its reality is uncontested by most Romanians and can be verified by studying the current state of former enterprises, most of which closed or were sold. For this particular issue I have corrected the section. But it still remains overall biased. The NPOV dispute tag is warranted.
The sections titled "Democracy" and "NATO and EU integration" are also biased. For example the 2012 recall referendum of then-president Traian Basescu where people overwhelmingly (>88%) voted to oust him but which was invalidated by the countries constitutional court is omitted. Furthermore, the tone of the section is biased, far from impartial. Furthermore, the selective presentation of content would lead to the idea that Romanians are nearly unanimously pro-western, pro-NATO, pro-EU, which is NOT the case among the population, even if major political forces represented in parliament are all pro-western. By the term Western I refer to the ruling political forces of the USA, UK, Germany, France and other such major countries.
The argument to Mircea85's view is based upon WP:BLOGS and other dubious sources. The Voice of Russia is certainly notable, but it should not be rendered in Wikipedia's voice, instead it should be done like: "According to the Russian propaganda organization Voice of Russia, <insert claim here>". Tgeorgescu ( talk) 18:58, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
There is no mention of fact checking, nor of any editorial control, nor of having a redaction (excepting the three people from dcnews, two of them being one director and one manager), nor are public the names of the redactors.
They are popular news websites, that's all we know about them. We don't know how they get their news, we don't know where they get their news from, we don't know if they even check those news, we don't know who checks those news, and so on. The only sources cited by Mircea85 which could eventually fulfill WP:IRS are http://rtsa.ro and http://jurnalul.ro . Tgeorgescu ( talk) 01:55, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
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I have removed the phrase that is sourced from the qz.com article because:
Bottom line, the sourcing of that statement is superficial at best, way below what a statement in a would-be GA should be, so it's not improving anything. If one reads the paragraph without it, one actually gets better information than with it. - Andrei ( talk) 14:31, 6 September 2017 (UTC)
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The article on Romania is probably the only one that has such an extended "Formation" section in its infobox, to the extent that most of that information is not related in any way to the formation of Romania as a nation state in the 19th and 20th centuries. The connection with the Kingdom of Dacia is especially borderline manipulative, and seems to be influenced by Romanian historiography, rather than Anglo-Saxon or international one. I recommend that only dates related to the foundation of the Romanian nation state and the creation of the modern regime in the aftermath of the Revolution should be kept in the infobox. Cipika ( talk) 21:15, 3 December 2017 (UTC)
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Dear Wikipedia editor, Please take out the Anthem from Romania page Description - it does not represent our spirituality- romanian nation has awaken long time before-it was just put into fear Thank you Roxannemikaelamarin ( talk) 19:22, 9 December 2017 (UTC)
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I would like to add the population as if 2018 wich is currently 19,580,634 inhabitants; BoboG ( talk) 19:50, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
Given that Romania scores a "very high" HDI, doesn't that make it a developed country, as opposed to a developing one as stated in the article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.38.227.57 ( talk) 00:39, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
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link this expression ``Notable mathematicians to the wiki page on Romanian mathematicians: /info/en/?search=Category:Romanian_mathematicians Alberttamazyan ( talk) 08:39, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
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This request is for changing the spelling of "Scaninavian-Baltic" to "Scandinavian-Baltic". Thanks. Oris1024 ( talk) 23:13, 10 July 2018 (UTC)
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"sculpter" = "sculptor" 2605:E000:1301:4462:BC5B:56AD:9030:2526 ( talk) 08:40, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
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For the time being, the section dedicated to the history of Romania is highly unbalanced and contains original research. For instance, the section refers to (unspecified) "migratory peoples" invading the territory (in accordance with the traditional narrative of Romanian historiography) without mentioning that many of the allegedly "migratory peoples" (Carpians, Gepids and Slavs) formed sedentary communities for centuries in the region. Likewise, the article refers to the late 12th-century anonymous chronicler's report of a late 9th-century Romanian principality in Transylvania, without mentioning that the reliability of the chronicle has been questioned by many historians (including Carlile Aylmer Macartney and Dennis Deletant). Furthermore, the article describes Transylvania as a "principality" which was a "largely autonomous part of the Kingdom of Hungary" from the 11th century. However, Transylvania did not form an administrative unit in the Kingdom of Hungary. The voivode of Transylvania (who was an appointed royal official, not an autonomous ruler) only administered the Transylvanian counties, but about one-third of the region—the Saxon and Székely seats (districts)—were administered by other royal officials. The first elements of autonomy appeared with the Diploma Andreanum which granted privileges to significant groups of Transylvanian Saxons in the 1220s. Borsoka ( talk) 02:45, 16 January 2019 (UTC)
First of all, we do not need to present all Roman towns. Nevertheless, we could place a picture about Ulpia Traina instead of Potaissa, but we should choose a better one. This picture shows the roofs of modern houses in the background. Borsoka ( talk) 11:15, 21 January 2019 (UTC)
Buna ziua,
PISA a fost introdus abia in 2011 in Romania.
Dar de ce PISA e irelevant cu adevarat? Nnimeni nu stie cum aleg aia scolile in care se organizeaza testul, pe cale de consecinta "rezultatele" sunt irelevante. Procesul nu este 100% transparent e 100% opac. Un exemplu, daca alegerile din Romania s-ar face prin alegerea aleatorie a unor colegii de la tara, din Moldova, ar castiga PSD-ul.
Citez "Testarea internaţională PISA se desfăşoară odată la trei ani şi evaluează nivelul elevilor de 15-16 ani la matematică, ştiinţe şi la înţelegerea textelor. 5.103 elevi români, cu vârste cuprinse între 15 ani şi 16 ani la data testării, din 185 de şcoli au susţinut, în luna aprilie 2015, testarea PISA propriu-zisă."
5000 de elevi de unde si au lucrat aceste teste inainte cum se face in Vest de foarte multi ani? E o bazaconie prin care Vestul sa fie deasupra Estului.
Nu vi se pare o ANTITEZA uriasa? O scoala dezastruoasa conform PISA nu are cum sa ofere an de an performante la olimpiadele de matematica, informatica, fizica sau geografie.
"În toate ţările care participă la PISA 2015, alegerea şcolilor şi a elevilor se realizează de către Consorţiul PISA, cu ajutorul unui software specializat."? Ce anume face programul ala? Care sunt criteriile pe care le ia in calcul? Difera ele de la tara la tara?
PISA este o testare foarte controversata, indusa de UE.
Si nu cred ca accentuarea pe pagina Romania ne este de folos. Se discuta la nivel de minister si la UE. N-are rost sa ne taiem craca singuri, pagina Romaniei are mai mult scop turistic si de informare.
Christina -- message received from User:Cristina neagu in my talk page
Administered every three years, Pisa results are anxiously awaited by governments, education ministers, and the editorial boards of newspapers, and are cited authoritatively in countless policy reports. They have begun to deeply influence educational practices in many countries. As a result of Pisa, countries are overhauling their education systems in the hopes of improving their rankings. Lack of progress on Pisa has led to declarations of crisis and "Pisa shock" in many countries, followed by calls for resignations, and far-reaching reforms according to Pisa precepts.
We are frankly concerned about the negative consequences of the Pisa rankings. For example, in the US, Pisa has been invoked as a major justification for the recent "Race to the Top" programme, which has increased the use of standardised testing for student-, teacher-, and administrator evaluations, which rank and label students, as well as teachers and administrators according to the results of tests widely known to be imperfect.
In education policy, Pisa, with its three-year assessment cycle, has caused a shift of attention to short-term fixes designed to help a country quickly climb the rankings, despite research showing that enduring changes in education practice take decades, not a few years, to come to fruition.
Christina ( talk) 12:05, 21 January 2019 (UTC)
@ Cristina neagu:, your constant reference to my ethnicity is highly uncivil. Please edit the article in accordance with basic WP policies (WP:NOR, WP:NPOV), because there is no specific WP policy dedicated to the "sensitivity of your Hungarian friends." Borsoka ( talk) 15:24, 24 January 2019 (UTC)
I do agree, Borsoka, it's not from Latin. Although Romance comes from Vulgar Latin, we talk about "elements of Romance". Over 20% are French words, around 5% are Italian, only the rest. Do you mind keeping the table? It's well documented. And usually we don't go to Hungary to rewrite your page and history. If you would have been fair, you should have only erased the Latin "word". Not hiding the truth of universal grammar conventions. I think we can still prove we are respectful. Christina ( talk) 14:51, 21 January 2019 (UTC)
I consider a rigorous separation of Antiquity into subdivisions as extremely important in the case of Romania, because of the generally poor knowledge of Romanian history both in the country and outside of it, and the very widespread tendency in Romania to mistakenly amalgamate the history of Romania as a territory, with that of modern-day Romanians as an ethnic group. The diversity of ethnicity and cultural identity among the predecessors of the Romanians in what is now Romania is regularly obscured by nationalistic claims of cultural continuity going back all the way to Stone Age cultures. Most Romanians leave school with kind of a goulash (no Hungarian pun intended) of thoughts regarding anything older than the Dacians and Romans.
There are of course problems in defining the periods - prehistory only ends with the arrival of the literate Greeks, but the populations they encounter are at very different stages of cultural development; people who have studied history and archaeology should figure out the boundaries between Stone, Eneolithic/Chalcolithic, Bronze, and Iron Age and Classical Antiquity, after first checking if they all apply to the territory of modern Romania.
The separate WP articles dealing with the History of Romania and distinct periods in the history of Romania, specifically Romania in Antiquity, are not accurately subdivided either. If they were, one could arguably be more casual here in the article about Romania after indicating the proper links. So the job of indicating the historical periods needs to be done in coordination between these two levels. Arminden ( talk) 08:06, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
@ Borsoka: Logic didn't start with Wikipedia. Even here, tools such as red links are used in order to indicate to the user that some relevant information is missing (users can then look it up somewhere else), and encourage editors to supply it. Once you create the proper frame, by using headings and sometimes red links, the content will follow; that's one aspect on how WP works. The fact that now an important topic is dealt with in just a few lines, doesn't prove it should be further devalued by leaving it hidden in a vague umbrella-paragraph. Inviting me to write an article about Prehistoric age in Romania, a hugely interesting topic not least in the context of the Danubian culture and overall propagation of humanity and different cultures into Europe, is either flattering (I'm not a historian, and I don't have the time to patch it together from sources), or plain rhetorical: the fact that I won't write it doesn't in any way make it less necessary. Arminden ( talk) 09:02, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
OK, bye. Arminden ( talk) 09:22, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
Christina,
it is hard to discuss sometimes in the edit logs, thus I would reply here. The corresponding articles I referred describe the history, evolution & other concerns based on geographical locations of countries, also regarding what is official, what is geographical, what is by view (if there are more etc.).
I don't think I said anything wrong, because:
- I did not told/refer to anything about what would happen if from Iceland to the Ural mountains we mathemamatically would split Europe into three
- I never said Transylvania would not be (or had been as formerly part of Hungary) considered part of Central-Europe, I acknowledged that some parts of today's Romania are nominally not Eastern Europe
- comparison with present-day Hungary is irrelevant, anyway in the Central European region based on the old Communist Iron Curtain still politicians mistakenly confuse the term so "Central-Eastern Europe" vs. "Eastern-Central-Europe", or even using Eastern-Europe, though the Americans are not mistaking such mostly as a surprise, so we should not overargue this question, as well some countries are in complex situation having their territories in the meeting or regions. Romania as before is still counted as an Eastern-European country, and there is nothing dehonestating in this, despite the territorial changes in the past century, by having mostly her territory in theis region, also by tradition, time zone, etc. (Balkan issues are always complex if you mentioned it, part of the southern territories belong there, but Romania is not treated as "Balkan country", who said it? Btw, during the midst of the last century the "Southeastern-Europe" denomination was common even including more western or nothern regions, but they became already outdated, recently I noticed a some debate on Croatia's proper classification)
Cheers.( KIENGIR ( talk) 20:55, 4 February 2019 (UTC))
I think this section is the poorest and most biased of the whole article. It is obvious that it is written here by an anticommunist hipster and partial copied from anticommunist authors. To summarize the entire period with lack of consumer goods and revolution, with 3 photographs of the subject, clearly shows the 'good intention' of the person who wrote it.-- Kunok Kipcsak ( talk) 10:43, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
We seem to have a little WP:GALLERY problem causing some WP:UNDUE bringing attention to one section or another and full of 'unsourced stamtments with some images not even metioned in the pros text. Perhaps best to talk about what images to keep so we can follow our Mos on images and policy of verifiability. Though it best to bring up here as there seems to be a lots of editwaring in this article as of late.- Moxy 🍁 (original post 16:14, 13 February 2019)
Prior RfC question discussion
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Should the article contain two galleries in two sections? Should images be cuddled by being placed beside relevant text if that exists or should more galleries be added to different sections to help with an unbalance of images. Relevant policies and guidelines:
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There is a dispute on how many images should be included in this article, and how they should be placed. A prominent question within this is whether it is appropriate to use image galleries in the various sections/subsections of this article, which was an initial attempt to solve the formatting issues caused by the large number of pictures without removing any pictures, and to which more pictures have subsequently been added. At the time of this comment, such galleries are included in the Prehistory and antiquity and Middle Ages subsections. CMD ( talk) 05:00, 10 April 2019 (UTC)
Fine the way it is. It's okay. BeenAroundAWhile ( talk) 16:15, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
This wikipedia page is really nice, but i want to point out on the fact that the agnatic ancestry of János Hunyadi is disputed,and there are three theories:According to the first, his father was Cuman (most of the Romanian nobility was Cuman at that time).The second says that he was the bastard of King Sigismund,and he gifted lands to his "father",Vajk,in exchange for his silence. And according to the third,his father was Vajk. But we know one thing for sure:he wasnt Romanian. And i think that Vlad should be mentioned, because he made Wallachia pretty famous with certain...actions. Thats it. 134.255.50.220 ( talk) 22:08, 8 June 2019 (UTC)
- the German name has been already in the article, not I was the one who put it there, regarding the places of Transylvania generally the Romanian, Hungarian and German names are relevant
- regarding Yiddish, see the previous entry
- regarding the Slovak variant of Békéscsaba, or in any article or any langauge, in case a relevant variant is mentioned, than all relevant variants should be mentioned (of course, depending on the context). That means, in a German/Saxon context article in case just the German is mentioned is ok, but in general context of Transylvania in case German is mentioned, Hungarian should be also mentioned. Of course, in this context, under a picture in this article German and Hungarian is not a "necessity", I was driven by the principle stated in the previous sentence.( KIENGIR ( talk) 13:41, 6 July 2019 (UTC))
Why do you think forms other than Romanian are relevant in this article? Borsoka ( talk) 13:44, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 5 | ← | Archive 10 | Archive 11 | Archive 12 | Archive 13 | Archive 14 |
(De ce este pusă engleza la limbile minorităților? Am văzut că este o legătură la un articol( http://www.coe.int/en/web/conventions/full-list/-/conventions/treaty/148/declarations?p_auth=63PpH3zN) dar nu pare că zice ceva de engleză la România în afară de faptul că este scris în engleză. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.115.215.111 ( talk) 10:37, 6 July 2017 (UTC)
The History of Romania section lacks a NPOV, especially for the modern and contemporary era (starting 1950). The sole point of view presented is that prevalent in mainstream western media and western-affiliated groups.
The section on the Communist period for example is biased by presenting as fact allegations against the regime of that, without clearly stating in the text which group claimed those opinions. Furthermore, the content is misleading in that it omits any mention of the numerous economic and industrial achievements of Romania during those times, achievements which are undisputed by any scholar, if not that popularized recently in media. Some sources cited, like the Tismaneanu report are openly biased anti-communist, pro-Western and probably financed by foreign agent NGOs. Regardless of the source of funding, the Tismaneanu report cannot be considered an impartial, scientific review of that period as its purpose was a political statement adopted in the Romanian Parliament condemning communism. It is as if the prosecutor's request is claimed as evidence at a trial.
The destruction of the industry and economy of Romania following events in 1989 is an important issue missing from the section. The reality of such destruction is sometimes talked about in Romanian media, like [1]. Its reality is uncontested by most Romanians and can be verified by studying the current state of former enterprises, most of which closed or were sold. For this particular issue I have corrected the section. But it still remains overall biased. The NPOV dispute tag is warranted.
The sections titled "Democracy" and "NATO and EU integration" are also biased. For example the 2012 recall referendum of then-president Traian Basescu where people overwhelmingly (>88%) voted to oust him but which was invalidated by the countries constitutional court is omitted. Furthermore, the tone of the section is biased, far from impartial. Furthermore, the selective presentation of content would lead to the idea that Romanians are nearly unanimously pro-western, pro-NATO, pro-EU, which is NOT the case among the population, even if major political forces represented in parliament are all pro-western. By the term Western I refer to the ruling political forces of the USA, UK, Germany, France and other such major countries.
The argument to Mircea85's view is based upon WP:BLOGS and other dubious sources. The Voice of Russia is certainly notable, but it should not be rendered in Wikipedia's voice, instead it should be done like: "According to the Russian propaganda organization Voice of Russia, <insert claim here>". Tgeorgescu ( talk) 18:58, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
There is no mention of fact checking, nor of any editorial control, nor of having a redaction (excepting the three people from dcnews, two of them being one director and one manager), nor are public the names of the redactors.
They are popular news websites, that's all we know about them. We don't know how they get their news, we don't know where they get their news from, we don't know if they even check those news, we don't know who checks those news, and so on. The only sources cited by Mircea85 which could eventually fulfill WP:IRS are http://rtsa.ro and http://jurnalul.ro . Tgeorgescu ( talk) 01:55, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
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I have removed the phrase that is sourced from the qz.com article because:
Bottom line, the sourcing of that statement is superficial at best, way below what a statement in a would-be GA should be, so it's not improving anything. If one reads the paragraph without it, one actually gets better information than with it. - Andrei ( talk) 14:31, 6 September 2017 (UTC)
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The article on Romania is probably the only one that has such an extended "Formation" section in its infobox, to the extent that most of that information is not related in any way to the formation of Romania as a nation state in the 19th and 20th centuries. The connection with the Kingdom of Dacia is especially borderline manipulative, and seems to be influenced by Romanian historiography, rather than Anglo-Saxon or international one. I recommend that only dates related to the foundation of the Romanian nation state and the creation of the modern regime in the aftermath of the Revolution should be kept in the infobox. Cipika ( talk) 21:15, 3 December 2017 (UTC)
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Dear Wikipedia editor, Please take out the Anthem from Romania page Description - it does not represent our spirituality- romanian nation has awaken long time before-it was just put into fear Thank you Roxannemikaelamarin ( talk) 19:22, 9 December 2017 (UTC)
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I would like to add the population as if 2018 wich is currently 19,580,634 inhabitants; BoboG ( talk) 19:50, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
Given that Romania scores a "very high" HDI, doesn't that make it a developed country, as opposed to a developing one as stated in the article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.38.227.57 ( talk) 00:39, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
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link this expression ``Notable mathematicians to the wiki page on Romanian mathematicians: /info/en/?search=Category:Romanian_mathematicians Alberttamazyan ( talk) 08:39, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
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This request is for changing the spelling of "Scaninavian-Baltic" to "Scandinavian-Baltic". Thanks. Oris1024 ( talk) 23:13, 10 July 2018 (UTC)
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"sculpter" = "sculptor" 2605:E000:1301:4462:BC5B:56AD:9030:2526 ( talk) 08:40, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
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For the time being, the section dedicated to the history of Romania is highly unbalanced and contains original research. For instance, the section refers to (unspecified) "migratory peoples" invading the territory (in accordance with the traditional narrative of Romanian historiography) without mentioning that many of the allegedly "migratory peoples" (Carpians, Gepids and Slavs) formed sedentary communities for centuries in the region. Likewise, the article refers to the late 12th-century anonymous chronicler's report of a late 9th-century Romanian principality in Transylvania, without mentioning that the reliability of the chronicle has been questioned by many historians (including Carlile Aylmer Macartney and Dennis Deletant). Furthermore, the article describes Transylvania as a "principality" which was a "largely autonomous part of the Kingdom of Hungary" from the 11th century. However, Transylvania did not form an administrative unit in the Kingdom of Hungary. The voivode of Transylvania (who was an appointed royal official, not an autonomous ruler) only administered the Transylvanian counties, but about one-third of the region—the Saxon and Székely seats (districts)—were administered by other royal officials. The first elements of autonomy appeared with the Diploma Andreanum which granted privileges to significant groups of Transylvanian Saxons in the 1220s. Borsoka ( talk) 02:45, 16 January 2019 (UTC)
First of all, we do not need to present all Roman towns. Nevertheless, we could place a picture about Ulpia Traina instead of Potaissa, but we should choose a better one. This picture shows the roofs of modern houses in the background. Borsoka ( talk) 11:15, 21 January 2019 (UTC)
Buna ziua,
PISA a fost introdus abia in 2011 in Romania.
Dar de ce PISA e irelevant cu adevarat? Nnimeni nu stie cum aleg aia scolile in care se organizeaza testul, pe cale de consecinta "rezultatele" sunt irelevante. Procesul nu este 100% transparent e 100% opac. Un exemplu, daca alegerile din Romania s-ar face prin alegerea aleatorie a unor colegii de la tara, din Moldova, ar castiga PSD-ul.
Citez "Testarea internaţională PISA se desfăşoară odată la trei ani şi evaluează nivelul elevilor de 15-16 ani la matematică, ştiinţe şi la înţelegerea textelor. 5.103 elevi români, cu vârste cuprinse între 15 ani şi 16 ani la data testării, din 185 de şcoli au susţinut, în luna aprilie 2015, testarea PISA propriu-zisă."
5000 de elevi de unde si au lucrat aceste teste inainte cum se face in Vest de foarte multi ani? E o bazaconie prin care Vestul sa fie deasupra Estului.
Nu vi se pare o ANTITEZA uriasa? O scoala dezastruoasa conform PISA nu are cum sa ofere an de an performante la olimpiadele de matematica, informatica, fizica sau geografie.
"În toate ţările care participă la PISA 2015, alegerea şcolilor şi a elevilor se realizează de către Consorţiul PISA, cu ajutorul unui software specializat."? Ce anume face programul ala? Care sunt criteriile pe care le ia in calcul? Difera ele de la tara la tara?
PISA este o testare foarte controversata, indusa de UE.
Si nu cred ca accentuarea pe pagina Romania ne este de folos. Se discuta la nivel de minister si la UE. N-are rost sa ne taiem craca singuri, pagina Romaniei are mai mult scop turistic si de informare.
Christina -- message received from User:Cristina neagu in my talk page
Administered every three years, Pisa results are anxiously awaited by governments, education ministers, and the editorial boards of newspapers, and are cited authoritatively in countless policy reports. They have begun to deeply influence educational practices in many countries. As a result of Pisa, countries are overhauling their education systems in the hopes of improving their rankings. Lack of progress on Pisa has led to declarations of crisis and "Pisa shock" in many countries, followed by calls for resignations, and far-reaching reforms according to Pisa precepts.
We are frankly concerned about the negative consequences of the Pisa rankings. For example, in the US, Pisa has been invoked as a major justification for the recent "Race to the Top" programme, which has increased the use of standardised testing for student-, teacher-, and administrator evaluations, which rank and label students, as well as teachers and administrators according to the results of tests widely known to be imperfect.
In education policy, Pisa, with its three-year assessment cycle, has caused a shift of attention to short-term fixes designed to help a country quickly climb the rankings, despite research showing that enduring changes in education practice take decades, not a few years, to come to fruition.
Christina ( talk) 12:05, 21 January 2019 (UTC)
@ Cristina neagu:, your constant reference to my ethnicity is highly uncivil. Please edit the article in accordance with basic WP policies (WP:NOR, WP:NPOV), because there is no specific WP policy dedicated to the "sensitivity of your Hungarian friends." Borsoka ( talk) 15:24, 24 January 2019 (UTC)
I do agree, Borsoka, it's not from Latin. Although Romance comes from Vulgar Latin, we talk about "elements of Romance". Over 20% are French words, around 5% are Italian, only the rest. Do you mind keeping the table? It's well documented. And usually we don't go to Hungary to rewrite your page and history. If you would have been fair, you should have only erased the Latin "word". Not hiding the truth of universal grammar conventions. I think we can still prove we are respectful. Christina ( talk) 14:51, 21 January 2019 (UTC)
I consider a rigorous separation of Antiquity into subdivisions as extremely important in the case of Romania, because of the generally poor knowledge of Romanian history both in the country and outside of it, and the very widespread tendency in Romania to mistakenly amalgamate the history of Romania as a territory, with that of modern-day Romanians as an ethnic group. The diversity of ethnicity and cultural identity among the predecessors of the Romanians in what is now Romania is regularly obscured by nationalistic claims of cultural continuity going back all the way to Stone Age cultures. Most Romanians leave school with kind of a goulash (no Hungarian pun intended) of thoughts regarding anything older than the Dacians and Romans.
There are of course problems in defining the periods - prehistory only ends with the arrival of the literate Greeks, but the populations they encounter are at very different stages of cultural development; people who have studied history and archaeology should figure out the boundaries between Stone, Eneolithic/Chalcolithic, Bronze, and Iron Age and Classical Antiquity, after first checking if they all apply to the territory of modern Romania.
The separate WP articles dealing with the History of Romania and distinct periods in the history of Romania, specifically Romania in Antiquity, are not accurately subdivided either. If they were, one could arguably be more casual here in the article about Romania after indicating the proper links. So the job of indicating the historical periods needs to be done in coordination between these two levels. Arminden ( talk) 08:06, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
@ Borsoka: Logic didn't start with Wikipedia. Even here, tools such as red links are used in order to indicate to the user that some relevant information is missing (users can then look it up somewhere else), and encourage editors to supply it. Once you create the proper frame, by using headings and sometimes red links, the content will follow; that's one aspect on how WP works. The fact that now an important topic is dealt with in just a few lines, doesn't prove it should be further devalued by leaving it hidden in a vague umbrella-paragraph. Inviting me to write an article about Prehistoric age in Romania, a hugely interesting topic not least in the context of the Danubian culture and overall propagation of humanity and different cultures into Europe, is either flattering (I'm not a historian, and I don't have the time to patch it together from sources), or plain rhetorical: the fact that I won't write it doesn't in any way make it less necessary. Arminden ( talk) 09:02, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
OK, bye. Arminden ( talk) 09:22, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
Christina,
it is hard to discuss sometimes in the edit logs, thus I would reply here. The corresponding articles I referred describe the history, evolution & other concerns based on geographical locations of countries, also regarding what is official, what is geographical, what is by view (if there are more etc.).
I don't think I said anything wrong, because:
- I did not told/refer to anything about what would happen if from Iceland to the Ural mountains we mathemamatically would split Europe into three
- I never said Transylvania would not be (or had been as formerly part of Hungary) considered part of Central-Europe, I acknowledged that some parts of today's Romania are nominally not Eastern Europe
- comparison with present-day Hungary is irrelevant, anyway in the Central European region based on the old Communist Iron Curtain still politicians mistakenly confuse the term so "Central-Eastern Europe" vs. "Eastern-Central-Europe", or even using Eastern-Europe, though the Americans are not mistaking such mostly as a surprise, so we should not overargue this question, as well some countries are in complex situation having their territories in the meeting or regions. Romania as before is still counted as an Eastern-European country, and there is nothing dehonestating in this, despite the territorial changes in the past century, by having mostly her territory in theis region, also by tradition, time zone, etc. (Balkan issues are always complex if you mentioned it, part of the southern territories belong there, but Romania is not treated as "Balkan country", who said it? Btw, during the midst of the last century the "Southeastern-Europe" denomination was common even including more western or nothern regions, but they became already outdated, recently I noticed a some debate on Croatia's proper classification)
Cheers.( KIENGIR ( talk) 20:55, 4 February 2019 (UTC))
I think this section is the poorest and most biased of the whole article. It is obvious that it is written here by an anticommunist hipster and partial copied from anticommunist authors. To summarize the entire period with lack of consumer goods and revolution, with 3 photographs of the subject, clearly shows the 'good intention' of the person who wrote it.-- Kunok Kipcsak ( talk) 10:43, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
We seem to have a little WP:GALLERY problem causing some WP:UNDUE bringing attention to one section or another and full of 'unsourced stamtments with some images not even metioned in the pros text. Perhaps best to talk about what images to keep so we can follow our Mos on images and policy of verifiability. Though it best to bring up here as there seems to be a lots of editwaring in this article as of late.- Moxy 🍁 (original post 16:14, 13 February 2019)
Prior RfC question discussion
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Should the article contain two galleries in two sections? Should images be cuddled by being placed beside relevant text if that exists or should more galleries be added to different sections to help with an unbalance of images. Relevant policies and guidelines:
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There is a dispute on how many images should be included in this article, and how they should be placed. A prominent question within this is whether it is appropriate to use image galleries in the various sections/subsections of this article, which was an initial attempt to solve the formatting issues caused by the large number of pictures without removing any pictures, and to which more pictures have subsequently been added. At the time of this comment, such galleries are included in the Prehistory and antiquity and Middle Ages subsections. CMD ( talk) 05:00, 10 April 2019 (UTC)
Fine the way it is. It's okay. BeenAroundAWhile ( talk) 16:15, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
This wikipedia page is really nice, but i want to point out on the fact that the agnatic ancestry of János Hunyadi is disputed,and there are three theories:According to the first, his father was Cuman (most of the Romanian nobility was Cuman at that time).The second says that he was the bastard of King Sigismund,and he gifted lands to his "father",Vajk,in exchange for his silence. And according to the third,his father was Vajk. But we know one thing for sure:he wasnt Romanian. And i think that Vlad should be mentioned, because he made Wallachia pretty famous with certain...actions. Thats it. 134.255.50.220 ( talk) 22:08, 8 June 2019 (UTC)
- the German name has been already in the article, not I was the one who put it there, regarding the places of Transylvania generally the Romanian, Hungarian and German names are relevant
- regarding Yiddish, see the previous entry
- regarding the Slovak variant of Békéscsaba, or in any article or any langauge, in case a relevant variant is mentioned, than all relevant variants should be mentioned (of course, depending on the context). That means, in a German/Saxon context article in case just the German is mentioned is ok, but in general context of Transylvania in case German is mentioned, Hungarian should be also mentioned. Of course, in this context, under a picture in this article German and Hungarian is not a "necessity", I was driven by the principle stated in the previous sentence.( KIENGIR ( talk) 13:41, 6 July 2019 (UTC))
Why do you think forms other than Romanian are relevant in this article? Borsoka ( talk) 13:44, 6 July 2019 (UTC)